Beretta 1301 Tactical

[DHart]

Nice selection, Doc!

http://i397.photobucket.com/albums/pp59/zmonki/Shotguns%20and%20RIfles/DocGKRs1301s.jpg

(Hope you don't mind my adjustment to the image.)

[GJM]

I have a 1301 Tactical 18.5" inbound. What's the consensus on mag tube extensions? +1, +2 or +3? Nordic or Briley?

Assuming practical as opposed to gaming, I would go Nordic +1, their clamp, the rail accessory for the light and the sling mount on left side. I also have the Briley +2 and didn't like how it balanced on the T. Both companies make good stuff.

Here is the above set-up (less the Nordic sling mount) on a regular 1301. Need another Nordic sling mount, as the flush mount which ended up on my wife's Benelli is much sleeker.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/imagejpg2_zps22e56b64.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/imagejpg2_zps22e56b64.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/imagejpg1_zpsc046c203.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/imagejpg1_zpsc046c203.jpg.html)

[jetfire]

I have a 1301 Tactical 18.5" inbound. What's the consensus on mag tube extensions? +1, +2 or +3? Nordic or Briley?

The RCI extensions are pretty excellent. I have one on my 930 SPX and am ordering a second one for the 1301 Competition that just came in.

[JodyH]

OK. +2 Nordic extension along with a Nordic barrel clamp w/rail is inbound.
This will primarily be my all around defense shottie but will also be my 3-gun shotgun for our "outlaw" matches where we're limited to 9 rounds max in a shotgun anyway (7+1+1 ghost puts me right at the limit).
Does anyone sell a Tritium front sight post for the 1301 Tactical?
I may just end up throwing a H1 on anyway, but a Tritium front post would be nice.

[JodyH]

Lesson learned... while learning to ghost load, don't release the bolt while your finger is in the chamber. That little brain fart cost me a fingernail.

[jetfire]

Lesson learned... while learning to ghost load, don't release the bolt while your finger is in the chamber. That little brain fart cost me a fingernail.

That gamer nonsense will get you killed.

[GJM]

My winter project is to get a 24 inch 1301, have it cut to 18.5 inches, and add open sights (Trijicon HD front pistol sight milled into the vent rib with a small low profile rear pistol style sight). Our 20 gauge Benelli M2 set-up that way has been a constant companion lately, carrying 7+1 Brenneke slugs.

[JodyH]

I installed a XS tritium standard dot from sight on my 1301. I'm headed to range in an hour or so to unleash some 12ga. hate.

[JodyH]

That gamer nonsense will get you killed.
Especially when it rips off your trigger finger nail.
My 1301 has drawn blood before it's even fired a shot.

[jetfire]

Especially when it rips off your trigger finger nail.
My 1301 has drawn blood before it's even fired a shot.

I had an FNH P-12 that did that, but this was with the lifter. I'm pretty sure FN makes their shell lifters out of old razor blades.

[JodyH]

The 1301 is pretty impressive.
It fed everything from light #7 1/2 Estate to Brenneke Special Forces slugs without a hiccup.
Very soft shooting, even with #00 and slugs.
Extremely fast cycling. On a 8" square steel plate at 7 yards I was doing "Bill Drills" with some #6 high brass and averaged .24 splits with my fastest split being a .20
The only downside is 8 pellet Federal FC #00 (LE133 00) was giving me 8" groups at 25 yards instead of <6" like I was expecting.
I also had to Locktite and tighten up the extended bolt release lever when it loosened off.
So far, so good.
:cool:

[Drang]

Lesson learned... while learning to ghost load, don't release the bolt while your finger is in the chamber. That little brain fart cost me a fingernail.
Did you just re-invent M1 Thumb?

[Harm]

So for those w experience w the TAC Model & the Comp model are the stocks that much different? If so which is better at comfort through firing? Sight alignment for both irons & optic?

I'm not a gamer but the enhanced loading port of the Comp is appealing. I'm tempted to get a Comp & cut down to 18" - but if that means I'm giving up a better handling/diverse weapon in doing so it loses its appeal. Thx for all the info, following this conversation as I'm strongly considering this as my next shotgun.

[DocGKR]

The stocks are IDENTICAL.

[Jeep]

The stocks are IDENTICAL.

Any idea whether Beretta makes an 18.5 inch barrel for the Comp?

[GJM]

So for those w experience w the TAC Model & the Comp model are the stocks that much different? If so which is better at comfort through firing? Sight alignment for both irons & optic?

I'm not a gamer but the enhanced loading port of the Comp is appealing. I'm tempted to get a Comp & cut down to 18" - but if that means I'm giving up a better handling/diverse weapon in doing so it loses its appeal. Thx for all the info, following this conversation as I'm strongly considering this as my next shotgun.


Any idea whether Beretta makes an 18.5 inch barrel for the Comp?

By appearance, the stocks look the same, but my understanding is they are shimmed differently (with those being able to be adjusted to user preference).

Right now, no short barrel for the 1301 Competition model, which is why I am planning to get a 24 (24 so the choke doesn't interfere with the cut -- thanks to someone at PF for pointing that out) and cut it to 18.5 and add the HD front sight and pistol rear sight this winter. I like the handiness of the 1301 T, but really don't care for the sights on it.

[Harm]

The stocks are IDENTICAL.
Thanks

[JodyH]

I've discovered what I consider to be a major flaw in the 1301 (maybe in all semi-auto shotguns?).

Chamber loaded, tube loaded, safety on. Ready to rock by just pushing off the safety.
Basically how I store my defense shotgun in the house.
If anything presses the bolt release lever (which is a large easy to press paddle) it releases multiple rounds from the tube onto the lifter which binds everything up and requires a plastic rod (I use the magazine plug) to clear and free the rounds.
That's a bad malfunction to have, it pretty much requires a tool to clear unless you want smashed, cut up fingers.

Is this a semi-auto shotgun thing or a Beretta 1301 thing?

[GJM]

I've discovered what I consider to be a major flaw in the 1301 (maybe in all semi-auto shotguns?).

Chamber loaded, tube loaded, safety on. Ready to rock by just pushing off the safety.
Basically how I store my defense shotgun in the house.
If anything presses the bolt release lever (which is a large easy to press paddle) it releases multiple rounds from the tube onto the lifter which binds everything up and requires a plastic rod (I use the magazine plug) to clear and free the rounds.
That's a bad malfunction to have, it pretty much requires a tool to clear unless you want smashed, cut up fingers.

Is this a semi-auto shotgun thing or a Beretta 1301 thing?

Interesting.

Just checked -- the Benelli doesn't do this.

My short 1301 is actually the TX4, which doesn't have the monster paddle -- just a small button. My 1301 Comp has the big paddle, and does exactly what you say.

My TX4 isn't here, so I can't check whether it does the same thing, and is just less likely to happen, or whether the big paddle is the problem. I believe Brownell's sells the little button, like I have on my TX4, which you could switch to. Beretta usually has good tech support people, and I will be interested in what they say.

[jetfire]

I've discovered what I consider to be a major flaw in the 1301 (maybe in all semi-auto shotguns?).

Chamber loaded, tube loaded, safety on. Ready to rock by just pushing off the safety.
Basically how I store my defense shotgun in the house.
If anything presses the bolt release lever (which is a large easy to press paddle) it releases multiple rounds from the tube onto the lifter which binds everything up and requires a plastic rod (I use the magazine plug) to clear and free the rounds.
That's a bad malfunction to have, it pretty much requires a tool to clear unless you want smashed, cut up fingers.

Is this a semi-auto shotgun thing or a Beretta 1301 thing?

My 930SPX does exactly that, and it's maddening.

[Spr1]

It sounds like they are missing something design-wise that Benelli figured out.

[GJM]

I have a corporate contact at Beretta and will be in touch next week.

[Harm]

Interesting review courtesy of TFB-

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/09/12/review-beretta-1301-tactical-semi-auto-12-guage/

It seems there is no middle ground on the recoil on this Shotgun. Either its an abusive lover or an Italian goddess (or one & the same if you're kinky like that).

I do find the authors concerns over the safety puzzling. Not good necessarily, just puzzling.

[JodyH]

Interesting review courtesy of TFB-

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/09/12/review-beretta-1301-tactical-semi-auto-12-guage/

It seems there is no middle ground on the recoil on this Shotgun. Either its an abusive lover or an Italian goddess (or one & the same if you're kinky like that).

I do find the authors concerns over the safety puzzling. Not good necessarily, just puzzling.
Looking at the other shotguns in the pictures of course he thinks the 1301 Tac has a lot of recoil.
Comparing it to a 24" JM Pro with a huge mag extension and a big cushy butt pad or the Magpul raped 870 with what appears to be a 2" thick rubber butt pad and a muzzle brake... isn't that stacking the deck when it comes to felt recoil comparisons?
When shooting my 1301 Tactical side by side with a 1300 Defender and a Nova Tactical (both are lightweight 18.5", with maybe 1/2" hard rubber butt pads) the 1301's recoil is noticeably lighter.

[JodyH]

I have a corporate contact at Beretta and will be in touch next week.
Let 'em know they screwed up.
I'll probably call Beretta next week and see if they'll send me a TX4 bolt release button to try out.
Right now the 1301 is relegated to home use and won't be travelling because it's too easy to get a major lock down because of the crappy shell release design.
If you're transporting it cruiser ready and that button gets bumped you don't even have a single shot...

[Harm]

Looking at the other shotguns in the pictures of course he thinks the 1301 Tac has a lot of recoil.
Comparing it to a 24" JM Pro with a huge mag extension and a big cushy butt pad or the Magpul raped 870 with what appears to be a 2" thick rubber butt pad and a muzzle brake... isn't that stacking the deck when it comes to felt recoil comparisons?
When shooting my 1301 Tactical side by side with a 1300 Defender and a Nova Tactical (both are lightweight 18.5", with maybe 1/2" hard rubber butt pads) the 1301's recoil is noticeably lighter.
Agreed, but similar observations have been noted already in this thread. Some say its savage & others the opposite. I am hoping to find one in Arizona to shoot & make up my own mind.

[GJM]

Shoot an 18 inch Benelli M2 and 18 inch 1301 with Brenneke slugs, and it is clear that the Benelli runs not by inertia but by pain.

[Harm]

Well I've got a date w an M2 & an M4 this next Friday so we'll see. Still trying to find someone w a 1301 to try & compare side by side.

[DocGKR]

The 1301 is definitely softer shooting than the Benelli M1/M2 or any pump gun. About the only shotgun I've used that shot softer is the Versamax.


"If anything presses the bolt release lever (which is a large easy to press paddle) it releases multiple rounds from the tube onto the lifter which binds everything up and requires a plastic rod (I use the magazine plug) to clear and free the rounds."

I have not seen this happen in actual use over several thousand rounds, but I was able to deliberately induce it in all three 1301 variants (18, 21, 24 inch). Clearing it takes about 30-60 sec, but I agree that this is NOT an ideal situation.

[GJM]

I have not seen this happen in actual use over several thousand rounds, but I was able to deliberately induce it in all three 1301 variants (18, 21, 24 inch). Clearing it takes about 30-60 sec, but I agree that this is NOT an ideal situation.

I have an email into my Beretta contact. I consider this a big deal. That oversized pad, is oversized enough, I could see it causing this problem at a bad time. I have never had the problem with my TX4, that has the small button. I have carried the Tx4 enough in the field, I suspect it would have happened, but I need to experiment. I have carried the shotgun with a round floated and empty chamber, though, which may have masked the potential for the problem. My TX4 is back in town, so I can't mess with it, but the 1301 is out of ready status until I sort this out.

[DocGKR]

"I have carried the shotgun with a round floated and empty chamber"

That is how I have run mine and have also not noticed a problem in the field, although I was able to deliberately induce the problem while in that configuration...

[JodyH]

I first experienced this issue when I leaned the shotgun against the footboard of my bed.
There just happens to be a piece of wood trim the exact right height to hit the paddle.
If I hadn't of heard the shells release it could have been two or three days before I noticed it was a single shot (maybe sooner if I had of needed it for real).

[LOKNLOD]

I first experienced this issue when I leaned the shotgun against the footboard of my bed.
There just happens to be a piece of wood trim the exact right height to hit the paddle.
If I hadn't of heard the shells release it could have been two or three days before I noticed it was a single shot (maybe sooner if I had of needed it for real).

A freak accident isn't "freak" if it actually happens, but it not only has to hit the release but has to hit it at the far aft end and pivot it, not just depress it.


http://youtu.be/2g6EQluR75A

When the bolt is closed, the extended handle does a lot to shield the paddle from getting bumped, but since it's such a mess to fix it's too risky to just dismiss it. I too would be interested to see how the 1301 tactical/TX4 button works, without the big paddle attached. Does it have the same pivot function?

[GJM]

I just got back to town and my TX4, which has the small button. Pressing the small button (as opposed to the larger paddle style pad on the 1301) creates no issues. My 1301 Comp is getting a small button ASAP.

[LOKNLOD]

I just got back to town and my TX4, which has the small button. Pressing the small button (as opposed to the larger paddle style pad on the 1301) creates no issues. My 1301 Comp is getting a small button ASAP.

Are we sure they are interchangeable?

[JodyH]

I just got back to town and my TX4, which has the small button. Pressing the small button (as opposed to the larger paddle style pad on the 1301) creates no issues. My 1301 Comp is getting a small button ASAP.
Once you verify they are interchangeable and it solves or at least greatly minimizes this happening post back up.

[GJM]

Once you verify they are interchangeable and it solves or at least greatly minimizes this happening post back up.

There is no problem with the TX4, which is essentially identical to the 1301 Tactical, excepting some small things like the large paddle. :) I have tried the TX4 with the chamber loaded, empty and floated. Works as you would want. Works as opposed to minimizing, as it is yes/no versus shades of gray, to my eyes and testing.

I need to get a part from Beretta or Brownell's, to switch from the large paddle to the small button, and then get that installed. Probably will be a few weeks to a few months, depending upon when I get to lower 48, and back to this.

[JodyH]

Looks like the Latch cartridge assembly (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/cartridge-parts/cartridge-latches/latch-cartridge-assy-tx4-prod40959.aspx?avs|Make~~Model_1=Beretta__TX4) might be what we want. $51 from Brownells.

[GJM]

Looks like the Latch cartridge assembly (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/cartridge-parts/cartridge-latches/latch-cartridge-assy-tx4-prod40959.aspx?avs|Make~~Model_1=Beretta__TX4) might be what we want. $51 from Brownells.

yes, that looks like the stock part I have on my TX4. You might also call Beretta, and see if they give you a free replacement, as I have had good luck with their support. I don't know what is involved in changing it out, as I had Jim Brockman do it, but it couldn't possibly be more difficult than changing a TRS in a P30?

[Ber1301TAC]

any update on this ? I showed the gunsmith at the range and he said Beretta lets lawyers design their guns. I'm regretting spending 900 on a gun that can jam so easily my 300 dollar mossberg doesn't jam :rolleyes:

Should have saved up for a Benelli :mad:

[JodyH]

Haven't messed any with the bolt release, been too busy.

Did get a chance to run a fresh lot of Federal 8 pellet #00 Flitecontrol (LE133 00) through my 1301 Tactical today though.
At 35 yards all 8 pellets were inside the -0 on a IDPA target and recoil was negligible.
It's currently loaded 7+1 with the Fed #00 and leaning against the wall next to my bed.

[Ber1301TAC]

This thread is pretty dead..... Anyways Nordic has a new mag tube specifically for the 1301 wonder if anyone bought it yet?

[GJM]

This thread is pretty dead..... Anyways Nordic has a new mag tube specifically for the 1301 wonder if anyone bought it yet?

I have it, works good.

[Harm]

Finally got a chance to shoulder one. Still wish I could find someone in Az who actually has one. I'd like to get some trigger time w one before I take the plunge & buy.

Heck I'd buy them lunch for letting me play.

[Kyle Reese]

I think this shotgun w/ Aimpoint T-1 would be perfect for a whitetail / brush gun here on the East Coast.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I have it, works good.

GJM could you possibly post a pic/two of it and any additional feedback on it?

FredM as I have a T1 on each of my VCS 870s, exactly what I will do when I buy a 1301.

[DocGKR]

Micro-Aimpoint is a superb addition to shotguns:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/workandplaytubes_zps379650ec.jpg

[Jeep]

Micro-Aimpoint is a superb addition to shotguns:

http://i1292.photobucket.com/albums/b580/DocGKR2/workandplaytubes_zps379650ec.jpg

I love that photo. I don't know how many hours it took you to get those guns in that shape but they look precisely how tactical shotguns should look in my opinion.

[GJM]

My 1301 is at Brockman's getting the "Jody" part replaced, so no pictures for now. Nordic +1 or 2 (can't remember).

I would be extremely disappointed if the man with a red dot on his pistol didn't have one on his shotgun. I have come full circle, and expect to have Jim Brockman inlet the rib on my 1301 for a pistol HD sight, although I also have the ability to use a zeroed T1 in a QD Larue -- gives me the best of both worlds.

[1slow]

I shot a buddy's 1301, 21" Comp recently in a class. Bear in mind I mainly shoot 870s and had and shot Benelli M1 Super 90s in the past. Also bear in mind I have not shot shot a shotgun much in years.
I had never shot a 1301 Comp before. It had a extended tube +1 I believe.
The problem presented was: to shoot the 12 yard target until the whistle blew, then load a slug and shoot the 40+ yard target. I leaned into the gun and ran it like a carbine. It was empty when the slug select whistle was blown. This made the transition to slug easy. I was using full power OO buck.
This is the fastest cycling 12 ga I have ever shot. It did not kick much. Several people asked about the "full auto setting." It felt very smooth and easy like an AK or FAL being rapid fired up close. It did not feel like I was rushing. I'm not a big guy 6' 195.

Questions:
I want a 1301 Comp to set up with a light, iron sights, T1.
Should I get the 24", cut to 18+, get the 21" and live with it?
I'm thinking, tritium sights, T1, EAG Fury Surefire.

Any help will be appreciated.

[DocGKR]

I have gotten rid of my 18" in favor of the 21"...

[Harm]

Doc - can you clarify what spurred that?

[Doug]

I would like to have the 1301 competition in 18" with bead rather than the tactical with ghost rings. Stick a long tube on for 3G or shorter tube for HD. It would be my do all SG.

[DocGKR]

One of my best friends wanted a 1301 and I had 3 of them; the one I used least often was the 18", so off it went...

[HCM]

Alabama DPS adopts the Beretta 1301

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/12/17/al-dps-chooses-beretta-1301-tactical/

I wonder if they are going with the large bolt release button? Has anyone here run the gun with the smaller TX4 button yet ?

[Ber1301TAC]

I cleaned my 1301 tactical today and noticed this wear point on the under side of the mag tube it felt like something is cutting into it . Is this normal?

http://oi59.tinypic.com/wc22wk.jpg

[Ber1301TAC]

ok this thread is DEAD!

[CanineCombatives]

I hope not........

OK 1301 owners, I'm interested in getting a tactical 18.5", coming from an SLP for about the last ten years, benelli guy before that.
The only think giving me the slightest reservation is all the hype about the recoil, simply put is it even a concern I should have or
is it a non issue?, I'm not a small guy.

[DocGKR]

What recoil? The 1301 feels very soft shooting for me, especially compared to an 870 or Benelli M1/M2.

[CanineCombatives]

Figured as much, well I guess I'll be taking the plunge very soon.

Any ideas on light attachment methods? The other choice I was looking at is the Remmy R12
which has 2 pic rail attachment points built in but the beretta is slick, I'm using the factory
quad rail sleeve on my SLP that basically slips over the mag tube.

[JHC]

Botach is selling the 1301 Tactical for $770 (two or more for $750 each). Fourteen are currently listed as in stock:

http://www.botach.com/beretta-1301-tactical-12ga-semi-auton-shotgun/

Shhhhhit.

[Up1911Fan]

Anyone buy from them before?

[JSGlock34]

Must resist...

[JDM]

That's awfully tempting.

I was handling an 18" TX4 in a LGS the other day and really wanted it.

This might be the ticket.

[scott]

Is there a consensus on the button vs paddle release? That would be a deal breaker for me.
Also, is the stock cast off at all? Being a tactical shotgun I wouldn't think so, but the cast on beretta o/us makes it too hard for me to shoot well. That's why I've been using superposeds all these years

[Dave J]

Botach currently has 27 more of these for $770.

It was too tempting for me. I ordered one early this morning, and had the shipping notification before COB.

[nycnoob]

Botach is selling the 1301 Tactical for $770 (two or more for $750 each). Fourteen are currently listed as in stock:

http://www.botach.com/beretta-1301-tactical-12ga-semi-auton-shotgun/

At Brownells, the barrel alone is $684

18" 12ga Barrel 1301 Tac $683.99 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/barrel-parts/barrels/18-12ga-barrel-1301-tac-prod68071.aspx)

Does that mean the rest of the gun is only worth $100?

[JodyH]

No, that means Brownells is probably selling the barrels at MSRP and BOTACH is selling the gun below MSRP.

[rob_s]

Seems like a lot of places are blowing out the tactical at <$800. Anyone seeing any good deals on the comp?

[Kyle Reese]

Tempted to snag one for white tail hunting in the brush.

[nycnoob]

I found a lubrication guide for the 1301 by some competition people (Redneck Tactical)
Its interesting but not Beretta endorsed, I think Bill Rehl would have a fit at their oil grease slurry


http://imgur.com/a/rY0Yb

[OlongJohnson]

Has anyone seen a letter from BATFE ruling on the "922(r) parts count/list" for the 1301 Comp and/or Tactical?

[GJM]

Has anyone seen a letter from BATFE ruling on the "922(r) parts count/list" for the 1301 Comp and/or Tactical?

Gee, remember when those letters supposedly meant something.

Some discussion, not terribly helpful, here:


http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=179930&page=19


Sent from my iPad

[JodyH]

Has anyone seen a letter from BATFE ruling on the "922(r) parts count/list" for the 1301 Comp and/or Tactical?

Nope... BATFE letters aren't worth the toilet paper they're written on anymore, even to the person they're directly addressed to much less third parties.

[JodyH]

Broke out the 1301 Tactical and ran 100 rounds of Federal LE133-00 (8 pellet Flite-Control #00).
Ran like a champ and my shoulder feels great, this shottie is fast cycling and a pussycat on recoil.
I was smoking 8" plates at 35 yards, usually with 6+ out of 8 pellets knocking paint off the plates.

[DacoRoman]

If not done already, can you guys please summarize the advantage/disadvantage between the tactical and competition for general/self defense use? It would seem to me that the competition is the more versatile unless one needs a shorter gun. Are the sights on the tactical that much of an advantage when shooting slugs? Thanks.

[GJM]

If not done already, can you guys please summarize the advantage/disadvantage between the tactical and competition for general/self defense use? It would seem to me that the competition is the more versatile unless one needs a shorter gun. Are the sights on the tactical that much of an advantage when shooting slugs? Thanks.

You just did. Tactical is 18 inch barrel with ghost ring sights. Comp is 21 or 24 inch barrel with a FO bead sight. Comp has a longer action, too.

[irascible_joe]

The Tactical is also a fixed cylinder choke, while the Comp is threaded for choke tubes. I'd like to see the Tactical threaded for tubes as well, since an IC or Mod choke can often improve performance with both buckshot and slugs.

[JodyH]

Just FYI, Nordic now has a tube extension barrel clamp designed just for the 1301 Tactical.

[Jackdog]

Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for causing me to buy a 1301T.

[BillB]

Same Here!

[QuickStrike]

So I finally installed that small button latch thing on my 1301 comp:

http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/cartridge-parts/cartridge-latches/latch-cartridge-assy-tx4-prod40959.aspx?avs|Make~~Model_1=Beretta__TX4

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn121/quickstrikes112/63238B2D-03C5-4B72-A1DB-3AEC31B9B80F-2989-000004BF8990083D_zpsnquszqvu.jpg

Did not work at all because...

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn121/quickstrikes112/BC22653E-3C08-4BDD-8DD7-DCA031EDA63D-2989-000004BFA7E61671_zpsbmkzu5ev.jpg

The 1301 comp uses a longer version. Yes, I did try installing it to make sure that it DOESN'T work. :cool:

So I just swapped out the buttons.

The entire assembly might work for the 1301 tactical because of smaller/shorter shell hole.

The problem of releasing shells into the lifter is still there, but much more harder to reproduce. I had to use two hands to do it. Releasing the bolt is also harder than with the extended release paddle, but I will keep the small button on for now as I feel it's worth the trade off.

Who knows, anything to prevent my cheeto encrusted fingers from inadvertently jamming up my gun in the middle of a zombie fight is a good thing, IMO.

Totally not worth the $50 bux for someone owning the comp version though IMO, because you can unscrew the extended paddle part and basically accomplish the same thing. Maybe dremel the button a little to remove the sharp corners.

[nycnoob]

I've discovered what I consider to be a major flaw in the 1301 (maybe in all semi-auto shotguns?).

Chamber loaded, tube loaded, safety on. Ready to rock by just pushing off the safety.
Basically how I store my defense shotgun in the house.
If anything presses the bolt release lever (which is a large easy to press paddle) it releases multiple rounds from the tube onto the lifter which binds everything up and requires a plastic rod (I use the magazine plug) to clear and free the rounds.
That's a bad malfunction to have, it pretty much requires a tool to clear unless you want smashed, cut up fingers.

Is this a semi-auto shotgun thing or a Beretta 1301 thing?


I just bought a 1301 from the New York Beretta Gallery (http://newyork.berettagallery.com/) and I was able
to have a long talk (at least 1/2) with the gunsmith there.

1) First I asked about if the gun was "drop safe" with the safety on. He took a trigger group out of a 1301 and
while the safety was on tried to push the sear, using a long tool, to release the hammer when not pulling
the trigger. He failed to make the hammer fall and opined that it would be hard to get the gun to fire with
the safety on even if the gun was mishandled.

2) Second I asked about this multiple feed issue. I was asking with regard to, "cruiser ready" storage.
Which we discussed as: Chamber empty, Mag tube full, bolt closed. I Wanted to know how to load the gun
from this state, when demo'ing the gun both the salesman and the gunsmith always started by loading
one manually into the chamber and obfuscating the need to release a shell from the tube. What is
really funny was he did not know about this issue as he never started this way.

When I jammed the gun (released two shells onto the lifter by pressing the paddle) he
assumed I had somehow pressed the button twice (bobbled it). Eventually he saw that
it would be difficult to load the gun from this start position using only the paddle. He
was stunned and had to go check all the other shotguns in the store (yes they ALL do it).
He said "I have been a gunsmith for 30 years and I did not know this about the shotguns".

So the solution is to load the gun using the small sliver button next to the lifter and using
the paddle only to release the bolt. This looks really clumsy compared to loading a rifle
from "cruiser ready" but we could see no easy way to do it.

He does not recommend keeping a shell on the lifter. This is not considered safe as a
strong strike on the stock could cause the bolt to reciprocate and load the wayward shell.
This is especially true of the Benelli which have less powerful springs on the bolt.


3) Third we spoke a bit about Frank Rively Optometrist for Shooting Sports. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13565-Frank-Rively-Optometrist-for-Shooting-Sports)
Seems this guy is a real legend and he holds a 1 1/2 day seminar on shooting and eyesight which is a real
must attend. I saw him to get shooting glasses last fall. Evidently he his a real shooting resource for all sorts of
obscure vision issues. The gunsmith was just stunned that I had seen him when I was not a clay shooter,
he is just a legend and many clay instructors learn new things by taking his class.

4) I was surprised that they sold me the floor demo gun. I do not think they sell lots of 1301's
(gunsmith was not sure of the differences between comp and tactical) but I still find it strange to
have them box up the demo and not give me a sealed box untouched by non-factory hands. Is this standard?
It seemed to be how they do business, as they were a bit surprised that they even got the right case for it out of storage.

[OlongJohnson]

I just found that a 5/32 hex wrench (I buy Bondhus, not Allen) will fit through the slot in the lifter. The long leg provides plenty of purchase so the short leg can easily be used to push the second shell back into the magazine, and the first is then ready to load when the bolt moves back. Easy and very quick, takes only a few seconds. Could still be long enough to matter in a fight, but better than anything else I've seen about how to deal with it. Now to figure out how to keep a 5/32 hex wrench or something similar attached to the gun...

[OlongJohnson]

I have the kind of OCD that just doesn't feel right shooting a firearm that I haven't field stripped, cleaned, lubed, checked and thoroughly understood. Some of my friends who've been doing this for decades and have tried everything are now swearing by Fireclean for gas guns, so I figured I'd initialize with that. Stripped and cleaned the 1301, de-oiled everything I could reach with alcohol, and relubed with Fireclean. The bolt action is noticeably smoother and lower-effort than it was when I started. Not saying Fireclean is any kind of magic sauce, just that cleaning and relubing a brand new firearm with only factory test firing history made a noticeable difference. Worth doing. Plus, I better understand how it operates.

Observation: what Beretta calls the "exhaust valve" is essentially a blow off valve (car guys who know anything about turbos will get this) for the gas system. That is why it is able to operate with low-power loads and still be safe with high power loads. Not sure how many other shotguns have this, if any, but there are probably a few AR guys who would spend money for such a system.

[DocGKR]

Despite several thousand rounds down the tubes, I have yet to clean a 1301 and probably won't for several thousand more rounds...

[nycnoob]

I just found this video, and it clearly shows that having the bolt release also empty the magazine tube, is an older Beretta shotgun feature.

On the 3901 the shell does not leave the mag tube as it is stopped 1/4 of the way out by the leading edge of the shell lifter,
but on the 1301 you would get 1 1/2 shells out on to the lifter and the gun would be well and truly jammed up.



Loading/unloading Beretta 3901
tandemrotor1


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxz_GOJYWiQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hxz_GOJYWiQ

[Doug]

1301 Tactical cleaning video from Beretta for those interested

http://youtu.be/2o2dOyVfdEI


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[azerious]

any updates on the bolt release issue? i have one in my cart but cannot hit the complete order yet as i feel wary of this.

[nycnoob]

any updates on the bolt release issue?


I do not believe it will ever be fixed.

1) I posted a video showing this was an issue with older models and has been made worse by the design of the 1301

2) I spoke with a Baretta gunsmith and he was unaware of the issue and it took a while for him to even understand what I was saying, so this appears to be well outside of the Baretta expected product use. I do not think this will get on the companies radar.

On the internet I have seen other gunsmiths recommend removing the paddle from the bolt release to make this less likely. That is a quick fix (remove one screw) and limits the issue.

[GJM]

I started this thread. My use of the TX4, and then the 1301, was for bear defense.

I just got to my original TX4, equipped with the small button. With some effort, I can make it malfunction, causing a hard to clear mess. Regardless of how many good things the 1301 has going for it, this is unacceptable for my use.

I am pretty disgusted, and wish I figured it out initially. I will be relying on my 14 inch 870 and Benelli M2 shotguns. Very sorry for the waste of time and money I may have caused others.

[JodyH]

I've relegated my 1301 to 3gun competition (where it really shines) and bought a Benelli M4 (aka "the beast" ) for my defense shotgun.

[QuickStrike]

I bought this gun because of this thread! :mad:



J/K, no regrets as, IMO it's still viable for HD with the small button installed or extended paddle removed. I'm just more cautious of anything bumping on that side of the reciever now. Maybe epoxy a raised ridge around it like for an AR mag release? Lol


OTOH, I recently dusted off the old 870 marine magnum to experiment with the Rob Haught "stretch" technique. In the form check vids, 5 shots of the estate 00 Buck took about a second longer with the pump, but I feel that manually racking the action helped point the gun back on target and was more accurate with it.

Wonder if the current production police magnums are still decent in QC?

[Shellback]

I have an email into my Beretta contact. I consider this a big deal...

Did anything ever come from contacting Beretta? I've read the entire thread and the 21" seems ideal for my needs, bucks and home defense. But, that nasty jam up wouldn't be fun if the bad guys were at the door.

[GJM]

Did anything ever come from contacting Beretta? I've read the entire thread and the 21" seems ideal for my needs, bucks and home defense. But, that nasty jam up wouldn't be fun if the bad guys were at the door.

No response or acknowledgement.

[Ber1301TAC]

This is very upsetting especially because this shotgun is targeted for law enforcement and home defense. I beleive the Palm Beach sherrif office even adopted it , sucks that us hard working people spent our money on an almost thousand dollar gun that can be binded up so easily mine is for sale

[Shellback]

No response or acknowledgement.

Customer service is just about dead.

[GJM]

This is very upsetting especially because this shotgun is targeted for law enforcement and home defense. I beleive the Palm Beach sherrif office even adopted it , sucks that us hard working people spent our money on an almost thousand dollar gun that can be binded up so easily mine is for sale

Even worse, you may have to change your screen name.

[JodyH]

Even worse, you may have to change your screen name.
I suggest "NelliM4" as your new username.

[Kyle Reese]

I still plan on picking one up for hunting white tail deer.

[GJM]

I still plan on picking one up for hunting white tail deer.

buddy deal available

[JodyH]

Mesa Tactical Urbino stock for the 1301 is scheduled to be released next month.
The straight stocks kill my wrist, a pistol gripped stock would be a great upgrade for me.
Now if I can just figure out how to make the bolt/shell release into just a bolt release I'd be happy with the 1301.
Has anybody studied the bolt release to see if it can be modified to only drop the bolt? I don't mind having to cycle out every shell when I want to clear it.

[JodyH]

I'm going to dig mine out of the safe and look it over this evening.

[JodyH]

I was playing around with the 1301 some more today with dummy rounds and that dual purpose bolt/shell release is disaster waiting to happen especially for LE use where shotgun training isn't a big priority.
All it takes is for a guy to hit the bolt release instead of manually running the bolt from "cruiser ready" (empty chamber, hammer down, tube loaded) and he ends up with a locked down shotgun and not even the luxury of getting a shot off with it.
I can see that easily happening with a guy who gets in several repetitions of using the bolt release paddle to chamber a round on the range, then when he grabs the "cruiser ready" shotgun out of the car and attempts to chamber a round with the bolt release paddle...

[Haraise]

So you're saying there's not any real problem here, if you run with one in the chamber?

[JodyH]

No. It will still lock down if the paddle is activated while loaded, but at least you can fire off the chambered round. And under those conditions it'd probably be an accidental activation, which is a bit harder to do.

I can see mediocre training leading to a major user induced malfunction under stress if it's issued to LE and carried cruiser ready.

[JodyH]

A question for those with 1301's.
Does your bolt hit a distinct "wall" in the last 1/2" of travel as the bolt rotates into battery?
I really notice it when chamber checking or ghost loading, I have to bump the bolt back into battery.
It unlocks with no hiccups.
My Benelli M4 just smoothly rotates closed on its own with no assistance required.
It's never been a problem while shooting.

[LOKNLOD]

Yeah there's a bit of a "catch" there in mine too, just part of the camming action I think.

I spent a good part of the afternoon fiddling with the latch assembly. It really is a frustrating issue because I love the shotgun but it's such a huge potential liability. It's really not that hard to do accidentally. The paddle gives good leverage and by the nature of it, it's possible for it to hang on a something and actuate as well. The bolt handle above gives some measure of protection from that, but stranger things have happened.

If you just remove the large paddle, it's hard to make it crap itself, but also a little harder to make it drop the bolt. I suspect it's effectively the poor mans version of the TX4 latch.

I had the concept that if you could limit the rearward tilt, you could prevent the problem or at least make it require a lot more force.

To accomplish this, I started by cutting some slightly wedge-shaped rings of rubber out of some tubing, and placing them under the latch, so that it provided resistance to reward motion on the latch but still allowed it to be pushed forward to drop the bolt.

I ended up moving testing various o-rings because it was a little easier to duplicate, and it does work for making it really difficult to make it puke; unfortunately a thick enough o-ring also makes it difficult to drop the bolt. So I took my Dremel and tapered the part of the o-ring under the muzzle-side of the paddle body, and voila, no puke but still drops the bolt. New problem created: it's hard to load shells into the mag tube. The same motion that allows you to puke the shells, is the clearance for the shell latch to give way to let rounds insert into the mag tube. So if you make that motion impossible, it prevents easily loading as well.

I think it might be possible to find a correct size/durometer combo to make it significantly more difficult (not impossible) to dump the tube while also still allowing loading easily, but I didn't find it yet. If you want to fiddle with it a lot, be aware the screw that holds the paddle on is easily stripped with excessive use ;) D'oh.

[Haraise]

LOKNLOD, that is some awesome news. Someone really tearing in to try and fix things is great to hear, thank you. :) Eager to hear what you come up with!

[Dave J]

I had the concept that if you could limit the rearward tilt, you could prevent the problem or at least make it require a lot more force.

I was messing with an idea over the weekend as well, but didn't want to jinx myself by posting too early.

Basically, what I did was to reverse the paddle, then add an "overtravel stop" to the back, so that it can no longer tilt rearward. It's not a 100% fix, but it's definitely much improved.

To make the paddle reversible, I used a knife and needle file to reshape the back, from the original U-shaped keyed groove, to a straight groove all the way across. Now, just reversing the paddle actually makes the situation much worse, since you have more leverage to tilt the paddle rearward...but if you add an overtravel stop to the back, it can no longer tilt. I considered using a set screw arrangement, but I don't think the plastic paddle lends is really suitable for this, so I simply used a big wad of JB Weld, and sanded to shape. The thickness is important -- too thin, and the paddle can still tilt, releasing the shell stop. Too thick, and the shell stop won't move enough to allow shells to enter the mag tube. About .110" seemed to work for mine -- the paddle has a slight taper, so the thickness varies slightly depending on where you measure it.

With this mod, I can still release the bolt fairly easily, but pushing on the face of the paddle anywhere does NOT cause an inadvertent shell relase. Unfortunately, it's not a 100% fix. If you pull the entire paddle rearward (like sliding your hand rearward along the reciever, i.e. imagine a motion similar to pulling the bolt back, but hitting the paddle instead), it can still release a shell from the mag tube. I have a couple of ideas for that, and hopefully will be able to test them before long.

Pictures to follow...

[Dave J]

Paddle reversed on shotgun:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/19/13d3df830fc63c7135d358d6e9e72200.jpg

The epoxy overtravel stop:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/19/925e134dc410ef73a515b73a32fc1a73.jpg

Back of paddle before sanding down to fit:
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05/19/9d4aadd456cffd6f98b0b1d324061a61.jpg

[LOKNLOD]

Nice work Dave! It looks like we were on similar thought processes RE: limiting the reward motion.
I thought about introducing the magical metal putty at some point as well.

[shootist26]

how is it possible that Beretta never identified this issue during product testing?

LOL?

[JodyH]

Because gun companies don't hire gun people and when they do they ignore them. Ask Todd.

[WDW]

Do other beretta shotguns like the A400 have this flaw as well?

[GJM]

Because gun companies don't hire gun people and when they do they ignore them.

Not sure. BUSA sure seems to be doing well on their pistol side this year.

[Edwin]

how is it possible that Beretta never identified this issue during product testing?

LOL?

The same way no one in this thread noticed it for two years?

[JodyH]

The same way no one in this thread noticed it for two years?
I discovered it in the first week of owning it.
If anyone can screw up a gun, it's me.
:cool:

[JodyH]

Not sure. BUSA sure seems to be doing well on their pistol side this year.
Compared to what?
A warmed over 92 is only 15 years too late and all their latest generation polymer pistols suck.

[GJM]

Compared to what?
A warmed over 92 is only 15 years too late and all their latest generation polymer pistols suck.

Maybe 15 years late, but Wilson is selling the crap out of the Brig Tac, and there are other 92 variants out like the Vertex, 92G, 92G-SD that are in demand.

[Doug]

Do other beretta shotguns like the A400 have this flaw as well?

http://youtu.be/Hxz_GOJYWiQ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LOKNLOD]

Do other beretta shotguns like the A400 have this flaw as well?

It's not a flaw, it's a feature. :rolleyes:

[23JAZ]

Even worse, you may have to change your screen name.

Winner winner chicken dinner!!!



Sell the 1301 get a Mossy 590A1 and never look back!!!!! Pump It Up!!!

[LittleLebowski]

Compared to what?
A warmed over 92 is only 15 years too late and all their latest generation polymer pistols suck.

You've shot the new striker Beretta?

[JodyH]

Not their newest pistol. But every other pistol they've made in the last 15 years that's not a 9mm 92 variation has been less than impressive if not outright junk.

[Dave J]

It's not a flaw, it's a feature. :rolleyes:

I'm seriously thinking it might have been intentional, perhaps with the idea of being able to download the magazine tube without having to reach into the loading port to manipulate the shell stop. è bello , sì ?

[Up1911Fan]

Is anyone still using the 1301 Tactical? How's the small button work? I'm looking for my 1st and most likely only defensive shotgun. Deciding between this or just getting an 870.

[Colt191145lover]

Is anyone still using the 1301 Tactical? How's the small button work? I'm looking for my 1st and most likely only defensive shotgun. Deciding between this or just getting an 870.

I am interested in a update as well.

[GJM]

Right now, I consider it unresolved. Yesterday, hiking on the tundra with my M2, my hand naturally fell where the "problem" control is on the 1301. Probably still a great 3 Gun shotgun, but not something I would rely on for defense today.

[les_garten]

So I am not sure what I want to do now after reading this whole thread. I was very excited for about the first 30 pages or so, then real Buzz kill...

I was looking at the Benelli M4 and doing research on it after I ruled out the Mossberg 930 SPX for reliability issues. Looked like Benelli was the way to go except fro a few things:

1) Cost more than I wanted to spend, especially when you roll in the 922r upgrades, Yipes it's expensive!
2) The button that drops the shells onto the carrier I saw as unnecessary and maybe a means in a confrontation for a round to not be readily available.
3) Little on the heavy side
4) Even though it autoregulates, seems to not do well with practice type loads.

So then I ran across the Beretta 1301. Right price, good looking, easy to get with a field stock, not heavy, shoots most anything, it's a Beretta!

I start reading threads and run across the Bolt Release issue that jams the gun up, and I'l like you've got to be kidding!

Here's the purpose of this gun for me:

My Go to HD guns in order of grab priority:

1) Glock 17 and hand held light
2)Mossberg 590A1 w/light
3) Arsenal AK
4) Secondary Shotgun for wife

So the purpose of this gun would be for fun mainly and a s a 2nd Shotgun for my wife. She knows nothing about guns all practically speaking. I was wanting auto for her, relatively easy shooting, easy loading, light weight. It seemed like a good choice to teach her how to use it. But when she gets confused about things, she becomes a button pusher.

The autojam button has me worried about me using this gun as well. Like brushing up against that button and not realizing you have jammed it up. It looks like a really fun shotgun until that button rears it's ugly head. This seems like a Fatal Flaw for me.

It would not be a primary HD shotgun for me. It would be a defend the front yard gun against civil unrest type of gun. Mainly a fun gun, which is why I am having troubles ruling it out. I wish there was a way to mod it to not do this. After seeing this gun I stopped aching for the Benelli, for a while...

Any suggestions?

[JodyH]

Looked like Benelli was the way to go except fro a few things:

1) Cost more than I wanted to spend, especially when you roll in the 922r upgrades, Yipes it's expensive!
2) The button that drops the shells onto the carrier I saw as unnecessary and maybe a means in a confrontation for a round to not be readily available.
3) Little on the heavy side
4) Even though it autoregulates, seems to not do well with practice type loads.

1) Yup... M4 plus accessories is expensive as hell.
2) That button makes slug select/de-select and "cruiser ready" super fast and easy.
3) I don't find it to be that heavy, but then again I'm not going to be carrying it all day across the tundra.
4) My M4 eats everything I've tried to feed it, from the cheap WalMart aluminum head #8's up to some monster Brenneke slugs.

[GJM]

If the shotgun is really for your wife, get a Benelli M2 20 gauge. If it is really for you, get a M2 12 gauge, and buy her reduced power loads when she shoots it. :)

[les_garten]

If the shotgun is really for your wife, get a Benelli M2 20 gauge. If it is really for you, get a M2 12 gauge, and buy her reduced power loads when she shoots it. :)

It would not be for her. She would come into play in a "Dire" emergency only. Dire meaning, I need more than one person or more wielding weapons. It would be mine mainly for fun. My first grab choice for HD shotgun is 590A1.

[SLG]

I'd still vote for the 20.

[Colt191145lover]

I'd still vote for the 20.
I would like to hear more about your thoughts on this please .

[les_garten]

It looks like the 930 SPX pukes it's guts up as well as the 1301, are there any more that exhibit this behavior?

[JodyH]

As soon as Mesa releases their Urbino w/pistol grip for the 1301 I'll be revisiting the Beretta to see if I can turn it into a Murphy resistant fighting shotgun.

[SLG]

I would like to hear more about your thoughts on this please .

I use a 12 gauge because that's how it's always been. Many trainers have said that a full load of 20 is probably no different than a 12, except the guns are lighter and handier, and they have less recoil. GJM has been setting up a 20g M2 for bear use, and it made me rethink my own use. I have switched to slugs only for my 12's, so in that case, a 20 makes even more sense. I like having a gun that is lighter, handier, recoils less and still shoots slugs. 20g slugs MAY penetrate better as well, though I have not seen any testing.

If you prefer a #1 or tactical buck load, then I would stay with the 12. I just really like what the 20 with slugs offers right now.

[Colt191145lover]

Thanks for the clarification!

[GJM]

Here is the formula for sectional density (with an example for 230 ball in .45 ACP):

M
7000 ÷ d2 = sectional density

Step 1:
Divide M (M = bullet weight in grains) by 7000:

230 ÷ 7000 = 0.033

Step 2:
Determine d2 (d2 = the square of bullet diameter in inches):

0.451 x 0.451 = 0.203

Step 3:
Divide the quotient of step 1 by the product of step 2:

0.033 ÷ 0.203 = sectional density of 0.163 for the 230 ball in .45 ACP




A 1 1/8 ounce 12 gauge Brenneke Classic Magnum has sectional density of .1350 (.070*.5184)

A 1 ounce 20 gauge Brenneke slug has sectional density of .1666 (.062*.372) or about 23% more than the 12 gauge.

Not really impressive by good rifle standards, as a .308 with a 150 grain has SD of .226, and a .338 with a 225 grain has SD of .281. However, the 20 gauge is shooting a 437 grain .61 diameter projectile at 1,437 fps, and the 12 gauge Brenneke Classic Magnum a 491 grain .72 diameter projectile at 1,434 fps. Since my use is bear defense, I am likely shooting at 15-20 yards and in, so the ultimate question is will a Brenneke slug penetrate the skull of a brown bear from any probable angle.

In terms of shooting quickly and accurately, the 12 gauge Brenneke in the M2 feels close to a .375 in recoil, where the 20 gauge Brenneke in a M2 feels more like an AR pattern .308.

Lots of good info here:


http://www.brennekeusa.com/cms/fileadmin/BrennekeUSA/Law_enforcement/user_upload/Dokumente/BrennekeLawEnfCatalog2014.pdf

[SpyderMan2k4]

One is the most interesting things about the recent shotgun class I took with Tom Givens was his lecture portion which we discussed ammo selection. He made some great points in the 12 vs 20 gauge debate. All ammo R&D has gone to 12 g. Most 20g rounds that are going to be appropriate for self defense are going to feel the same as low recoil 12g buckshot, if not worse. It was certainly an interesting point (this was in regards mostly to buckshot, not slugs).

[GJM]

One is the most interesting things about the recent shotgun class I took with Tom Givens was his lecture portion which we discussed ammo selection. He made some great points in the 12 vs 20 gauge debate.

Debate, I didn't know there was even a 12 vs 20 debate. I bet more people are carrying a PX4 than using a 20 gauge shotgun for social use. :)

Kidding aside, I think where the 20 shines is as a launcher for Brenneke slugs.

[SpyderMan2k4]

Debate, I didn't know there was even a 12 vs 20 debate. I bet more people are carrying a PX4 than using a 20 gauge shotgun for social use. :)

Kidding aside, I think where the 20 shines is as a launcher for Brenneke slugs.
Yeah I couldn't think of a better word... Discussion, maybe? But yeah, if the primary ammo is slugs, it's hard to argue with 20, because full power 12g slugs are brutal before too long.

[SLG]

12 is way better for many reasons, unless you're running slug only. I can shoot almost 100 full power 12g slugs in a session, but I'm not sure that's smart to do anymore.

[GJM]

I can shoot almost 100 full power 12g slugs in a session, but I'm not sure that's smart to do anymore.

Your retinas, later in life, will thank you for not doing that sort of thing.

[drummer]

Ive been following this thread because I was hopeful of there finally being an autoloading shotgun interesting enough for me to forsake my 870s.

I was hopeful in the 1301 due to reports of it being reliable, while weighing and costing less than a Benelli M4.

It does appear, however, that a couple of posters in this thread arent too far from an adequate solution.

Standing by and watching from the sidelines...

[JodyH]

Removing the paddle completely and just using the remaining nub of a button makes it practically impossible to accidently activate. Of course it make it quite difficult to drop the bolt on a reload as well, probably extremely difficult to impossible with gloves on. Maybe there's a happy medium.

[nycnoob]

2) That button makes slug select/de-select and "cruiser ready" super fast and easy.



JodyH, Can you explain?

My understanding is that the button would empty the magazine if the lifter was raised, or cause a jam if not.

I do not see how this applies to either "Cruiser ready" (empty chamber and full mag tube) or to slug select (putting a round which was not in the mag tube into the chamber).
I suspect I am not understanding something here.

[JodyH]

JodyH, Can you explain?

My understanding is that the button would empty the magazine if the lifter was raised, or cause a jam if not.

I do not see how this applies to either "Cruiser ready" (empty chamber and full mag tube) or to slug select (putting a round which was not in the mag tube into the chamber).
I suspect I am not understanding something here.
Not on the Benelli M4, which that post was discussing.

[Dave J]

FWIW, the paddle mod I described in post #367 worked great in its first live fire outing.
I had shoulder surgery shortly after doing the mod, and am not really up to running a gauge yet, so I only put about 35 rounds through the gun.

35 (cough) flawless rounds :)

[LOKNLOD]

FWIW, the paddle mod I described in post #367 worked great in its first live fire outing.
I had shoulder surgery shortly after doing the mod, and am not really up to running a gauge yet, so I only put about 35 rounds through the gun.

35 (cough) flawless rounds :)

Dave,
Have you noticed any difficultly in loading shells into the mag tube, due to the limited travel?

[Dave J]

Dave,
Have you noticed any difficultly in loading shells into the mag tube, due to the limited travel?

Not really, although mine probably requires a little more effort than it did in stock configuration. If the epoxy spacer was too thick, it would be difficult or impossible to load. Mine started off that way, as I made the spacer a little oversize. I sanded it down until loading the tube felt OK, and everything just seemed to work.

I'm packing up for a PCS move now, so it may be a few weeks before I'm able to tinker with it any more.

[LOKNLOD]

Not really, although mine probably requires a little more effort than it did in stock configuration. If the epoxy spacer was too thick, it would be difficult or impossible to load. Mine started off that way, as I made the spacer a little oversize. I sanded it down until loading the tube felt OK, and everything just seemed to work.

I'm packing up for a PCS move now, so it may be a few weeks before I'm able to tinker with it any more.

Similar to where I'm at with the o-ring setup. Seems if I get it stiff enough it actually prevents puking the tube, it's too tight to load. There's a sweet spot somewhere....

[GJM]

There's a sweet spot somewhere....

Unfortunately, that sweet spot for me right now is a Benelli.

[Dave J]

Unfortunately, that sweet spot for me right now is a Benelli.

I might have gone that route, but there somebody here on P-F awhile back who kept posting about what a great gun the 1301 was. I don't quite remember who that was, though ;)


And I don't mind. This flaw is solvable, and I love the way the gun handles and shoots.

[LOKNLOD]

Unfortunately, that sweet spot for me right now is a Benelli.

:D I get that. If I were starting from scratch or had more disposable gun fundage I might go that route too.

Or else my sweet spot might end up "used 870P".

[les_garten]

I'm disappointed in the turn this took.

My primary shotgun was always gonna be 590A1 with the Beretta as a fun gun and secondary defense shotgun.

That button is so potentially disastrous that it rules out a seemingly great gun for me. This looks like a great aftermarket opportunity for someone. O-rings and epoxy aren't making me feel warm and fuzzy though.

[Colt191145lover]

I think I may have found a way to deal with this problem (it involves neither o-rings nor epoxy :cool:), but I need to do some testing and I'm a little busy with a couple other things at the moment. I'll see if I can get BOM to be my test monkey. :)

On another note, Brownells lists different part numbers for the shell lifter/carrier for the 1301 Tactical (Mfr Part: C5D552 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-lite-sku913200656-41243-77771.aspx)) and 1301 Competition (Mfr Part: C5D306 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-sku913200610-40939-77330.aspx)). Does anyone know what the difference is?

Im all for it even if it takes 4 years :p
all kidding aside , keep up the good work !

[Dave J]

Soon? :)

[nycnoob]

On another note, Brownells lists different part numbers for the shell lifter/carrier for the 1301 Tactical (Mfr Part: C5D552 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-lite-sku913200656-41243-77771.aspx)) and 1301 Competition (Mfr Part: C5D306 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-sku913200610-40939-77330.aspx)). Does anyone know what the difference is?

The load port is bigger on the comp then on the tactical.

[DocGKR]

Tactical is a shorter receiver and lifter; competition is longer.

[GJM]

I think I may have found a way to deal with this problem (it involves neither o-rings nor epoxy :cool:), but I need to do some testing and I'm a little busy with a couple other things at the moment. I'll see if I can get BOM to be my test monkey. :)

On another note, Brownells lists different part numbers for the shell lifter/carrier for the 1301 Tactical (Mfr Part: C5D552 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-lite-sku913200656-41243-77771.aspx)) and 1301 Competition (Mfr Part: C5D306 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-sku913200610-40939-77330.aspx)). Does anyone know what the difference is?

is this a subtle pre-announcement for a crowd funding project -- if so, I am in for 2 or 3. :)

[les_garten]

I think I may have found a way to deal with this problem (it involves neither o-rings nor epoxy :cool:), but I need to do some testing and I'm a little busy with a couple other things at the moment. I'll see if I can get BOM to be my test monkey. :)

On another note, Brownells lists different part numbers for the shell lifter/carrier for the 1301 Tactical (Mfr Part: C5D552 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-lite-sku913200656-41243-77771.aspx)) and 1301 Competition (Mfr Part: C5D306 (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/carrier-parts/carriers/carrier-a400-sku913200610-40939-77330.aspx)). Does anyone know what the difference is?

The receivers are different.

[JDM]

Unless there is something neither Tom nor myself saw a few minutes ago while he was demonstrating this to me, I can't imagine this (easily implemented) solution not working.

I'll make sure to be able to run a few hundred shells through a gun as soon as Tom has one squared away.

[les_garten]

Thanks to everyone for the info on the reasons for the different parts between the Comp and Tactical. It's so obvious I feel silly for asking. :)



Nope. I've honestly got too much going on right now to start another project. I'll probably just tell you guys what I did.

BOM just came by and looked at my proposed solution and performed a sanity check. It looks like it works and is an easy-ish fix. I'll try to make the modification soon™ and get BOM to test it (my current situation makes me getting some range time terribly unlikely) within the next couple of weeks. Fingers crossed. :)


Unless there is something neither Tom nor myself saw a few minutes ago while he was demonstrating this to me, I can't imagine this (easily implemented) solution not working.

I'll make sure to be able to run a few hundred shells through a gun as soon as Tom has one squared away.

Can't wait to see what you guys come up with!

[JDM]

All the credit for the solution belongs with Tom. I'm just going to make empty shells and try and screw up the fix.

[JDM]

My gift to society.

[LOKNLOD]

Color me very interested to see what magic Tom pulls out of his hat!

[Dave J]

Color me very interested to see what magic Tom pulls out of his hat!

Yup. I might even hold off on drilling and tapping the receiver for the other idea I was going to try.

[JodyH]

I should be the fix test monkey, after all I am the original screw up.

[GJM]

after all I am the original screw up.

Saving that for future use.

[RevolverRob]

One is the most interesting things about the recent shotgun class I took with Tom Givens was his lecture portion which we discussed ammo selection. He made some great points in the 12 vs 20 gauge debate. All ammo R&D has gone to 12 g. Most 20g rounds that are going to be appropriate for self defense are going to feel the same as low recoil 12g buckshot, if not worse. It was certainly an interesting point (this was in regards mostly to buckshot, not slugs).

That's interesting. I've never noticed a recoil problem with #1 buck in 20-gauge from an 870 Youth. In fact side by side with a 12-gauge 870 with Magpul SGA the reduced-recoil 12 still hits you a little harder, the slugs definitely do.

The 870 Youth is a great little defensive weapon, with a 21" vent-rib barrel, a set of fiber optic turkey sights, and an I-Mod choke, I get really acceptable patterns out to 25 from buck. As in - it basically mimics what I am getting from 12-gauge 8-pellet Federal Flite-Control from an 18.5" 870 out to 25 yards. Slugs out to 75-100 are not a problem and Brennekes are really accurate from my gun. I keep meaning to acquire one of the Mesa 20-to-12 receiver-to-stock adapters they have now, so I can attach a Magpul SGA to the 20-gauge gun. My guess is once I do that light-recoil 12 will be really annoying and fullpower 20 will be quite nice. The biggest problem I have with most 20-gauge guns and especially the 870, is there isn't a nice solution for mounting lights to them.

-Rob

[SpyderMan2k4]

That's interesting. I've never noticed a recoil problem with #1 buck in 20-gauge from an 870 Youth. In fact side by side with a 12-gauge 870 with Magpul SGA the reduced-recoil 12 still hits you a little harder, the slugs definitely do.

The 870 Youth is a great little defensive weapon, with a 21" vent-rib barrel, a set of fiber optic turkey sights, and an I-Mod choke, I get really acceptable patterns out to 25 from buck. As in - it basically mimics what I am getting from 12-gauge 8-pellet Federal Flite-Control from an 18.5" 870 out to 25 yards. Slugs out to 75-100 are not a problem and Brennekes are really accurate from my gun. I keep meaning to acquire one of the Mesa 20-to-12 receiver-to-stock adapters they have now, so I can attach a Magpul SGA to the 20-gauge gun. My guess is once I do that light-recoil 12 will be really annoying and fullpower 20 will be quite nice. The biggest problem I have with most 20-gauge guns and especially the 870, is there isn't a nice solution for mounting lights to them.

-Rob
I suspect it was probably more of a "typically" than a "every time" kind of thing. That said, that's incredibly impressive you're getting that tight of patterning with a non flight control load, whether it be 20 or 12.

[RevolverRob]

I suspect it was probably more of a "typically" than a "every time" kind of thing. That said, that's incredibly impressive you're getting that tight of patterning with a non flight control load, whether it be 20 or 12.

Chokes, they work, yo!

I just need you to do 20-gauge Q-DCs next man! I'll field test!

-Rob

[SpyderMan2k4]

Chokes, they work, yo!

I just need you to do 20-gauge Q-DCs next man! I'll field test!

-Rob
That's actually interesting, I've heard pretty mixed things on how well chokes work with buckshot. At least in your case I'd say it works well! Per the Q-DC, let's get the 12g to market first and go from there ;)

[SLG]

Worth a read:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/beretta-1301-tactical-shotgun-review-carbine-shotgun/

This article actually mentions the "problem." Seems designed for unloading.

Any word on the fix?

[GJM]

This article actually mentions the "problem." Seems designed for unloading.

Any word on the fix?

Beretta appears hung up at step 1 of that famous 84 step process for solving the most complex issues, with step 1 being to admit there is a problem.

[shootist26]

This article actually mentions the "problem." Seems designed for unloading.

Any word on the fix?
I don't understand. The author says he just pushed the bolt release button and the shells get unloaded right into his hand. But wouldn't the shell lifter get in the way if he did that ?

[APS-PF]

You push up on the lifter, push the back end of the bolt release button and it will release the shells into your hand to ease unloading. If you don't push up on the lifter and push the back end of the button, it will release the shells onto the top of the lifter, jamming the gun.

[JodyH]

Interesting modification.
I'll have to get my 1301 out and see what you did and how things interact.

You won't hurt my feelings.
Engineers have no feelings, they're like Vulcans.

[SLG]

The Gadget 2, now in stores near you. Takes the un out of un-tactical shotgun.

[JM Campbell]

Mad props Tom. Glad to see you working to a solution instead of dumping the platform. I have been very interested in the 1301 and would love to see a "fix".

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[DocGKR]

Gives a whole new meaning to a "welded-up" lifter....

[DamonL]

How is everyone keeping the 1301 in a ready condition? Chamber empty or loaded? When I had a Benelli I use to keep an empty chamber and shell on the lifter. I would rack the bolt to charge the gun when I put it in service.

Reading the thread, the 1301 would not allow this.

[pdh]

How is everyone keeping the 1301 in a ready condition? Chamber empty or loaded? When I had a Benelli I use to keep an empty chamber and shell on the lifter. I would rack the bolt to charge the gun when I put it in service.

Reading the thread, the 1301 would not allow this.

It does allow this, there is a button under the receiver, at the bottom of the lever

Once you put it on the lifter, you can leave it till you want to rack it and put it into action

[DamonL]

That wasn't clear to me when I read post #361. Thanks!

[CoGT3]

Picked one these up from Grabagun. Price was too good to pass on. Tried to find one locally to touch but nobody had any in stock and most stated when there they only lasted 1-2 days. Every shop had pretty universal praise. That coupled with this thread made the price a no brainer. First semi auto shottie for me, and first time I had shot a shotgun in >3 decades. Can say it totally lived up to my expectations. Picked it up like an oversized AR and put first 3 shells through the center mass and last 2 to head without really thinking about it. Real natural shooter. Ate every shell we loaded. At this point, the "feature" is pretty hard to produce. Back word pivot of the bolt release lever takes a determined push to activate, but I clearly get the concern. Hopefully the lifter "mod" pans out. Also picked up 4 dummy shells to play with loading, unloading, and understanding the different starting possibilities (shell in chamber, shell in lifter, both empty).

A couple of questions for the SME's:

1) Magazine extensions. Any reason for Briley over Nordic or vice versa? Nordic currently on sale :)

2) JodyH. When you replaced the front sight did you use the Benelli M1 replacement listed on XS website?
https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=999481&CAT=8264

3) Doc and GJM. Getting a Aimpoint H1 for the top. Did I understand your previous posts that the Micro in the Laure low mount provides absolute cowitness with ghost sights? If so, how has that worked out versus a slight higher mount that wound give something like a lower 1/3 cowitness with ARs?

4) Last, what are you guys using for general practice loads? Will probably load up with Federal FC #1 for home with Brenneke on side saddle.

Thanks as always for the plethora of knowledge available here.

[GJM]

3) Doc and GJM. Getting a Aimpoint H1 for the top. Did I understand your previous posts that the Micro in the Laure low mount provides absolute cowitness with ghost sights? If so, how has that worked out versus a slight higher mount that wound give something like a lower 1/3 cowitness with ARs?

The shotgun is 2000 miles away right now, and I can't remember exactly beyond the aperture sights were usable through the tube of a T1 in a Larue low mount.

[CoGT3]

Perfect. One question scratched off.

[HCM]

Any updates regarding "the fix"? I may have an opportunity to tradde into an 18" 1301. Also, since the Tactical 18" and the 21" competition 1301's have different loading port / lifter clearance, will "the fix" work with both?

[CoGT3]

Picked one these up from Grabagun. Price was too good to pass on. Tried to find one locally to touch but nobody had any in stock and most stated when there they only lasted 1-2 days. Every shop had pretty universal praise. That coupled with this thread made the price a no brainer. First semi auto shottie for me, and first time I had shot a shotgun in >3 decades. Can say it totally lived up to my expectations. Picked it up like an oversized AR and put first 3 shells through the center mass and last 2 to head without really thinking about it. Real natural shooter. Ate every shell we loaded. At this point, the "feature" is pretty hard to produce. Back word pivot of the bolt release lever takes a determined push to activate, but I clearly get the concern. Hopefully the lifter "mod" pans out. Also picked up 4 dummy shells to play with loading, unloading, and understanding the different starting possibilities (shell in chamber, shell in lifter, both empty).

A couple of questions for the SME's:

1) Magazine extensions. Any reason for Briley over Nordic or vice versa? Nordic currently on sale :)

2) JodyH. When you replaced the front sight did you use the Benelli M1 replacement listed on XS website?
https://www.xssights.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=999481&CAT=8264

3) Doc and GJM. Getting a Aimpoint H1 for the top. Did I understand your previous posts that the Micro in the Laure low mount provides absolute cowitness with ghost sights? If so, how has that worked out versus a slight higher mount that wound give something like a lower 1/3 cowitness with ARs?

4) Last, what are you guys using for general practice loads? Will probably load up with Federal FC #1 for home with Brenneke on side saddle.

Thanks as always for the plethora of knowledge available here.

Little bump

Any thoughts on Nordic vs Briley extensions?

Benelli M1/2 front sights good to go as replacement front sight on tactical?

Went ahead and got H2 with low Larue mount.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[JodyH]

Little bump

Any thoughts on Nordic vs Briley extensions? Nordic along with their 1301 Tactical specific clamp

Benelli M1/2 front sights good to go as replacement front sight on tactical? Not on the Tactical, the Benelli front sight is way too tall.

Went ahead and got H2 with low Larue mount.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[CoGT3]

Nordic tube ordered.

Still can't find a beretta specific sight on XS website. Only ghost ring type front sights listed are the benellis. Did you call them to get the front sight replacement?

[Ber1301TAC]

Nordic tube ordered.

Still can't find a beretta specific sight on XS website. Only ghost ring type front sights listed are the benellis. Did you call them to get the front sight replacement?

Which tube did you get ? Nordic has been sold out of the one specifically for the 1301 tactical with the rail.

[Haraise]

Anyone planning to try the lancer +2 extension?

[LOKNLOD]

Which tube did you get ? Nordic has been sold out of the one specifically for the 1301 tactical with the rail.

I ordered a Nordic tube and clamp from DSG last week while they were having a sale. Unfortunately when it showed up Friday it was the right clamp but tube for Mossberg... The bag was labeled incorrectly so it was just a mixup. To their credit they answered the phone at 5:56 on a Friday and said they would get me taken care of, hopefully it is in my hands soon...

[Ber1301TAC]

Brand new Benelli m2 tactical for 990 good deal? Sell the 1301?

[LOKNLOD]

RE: Nordic extensions -
Anyone have any difficulties with the Nordic barrel nut threading on?
First I get the wrong setup altogether...
Then the replacement gets send to wrong address...
Now I've got what appears to be the right tube nut (at least according to labels) but it doesn't look like it's got the right threads. As a matter of fact, it looks like suspiciously like the Mossberg nut.

[Up1911Fan]

So as someone who's about to bite the bullet and order one, how's Tom's fix work? Did anyone actually try the correct TX4 small button on the 1301 Tactical? Who makes replacement front sights for these?

[GJM]

So as someone who's about to bite the bullet and order one, how's Tom's fix work? Did anyone actually try the correct TX4 small button on the 1301 Tactical? Who makes replacement front sights for these?

The small TX4 button reduces the likelihood of the problem, only by virtue of being smaller, but doesn't eliminate the design defect and potential for a catastrophic jam. My understanding is that Tom's fix worked.

I would not buy a 1301 until Beretta fixes the problem. They have been made aware of the problem, and frankly it is astounding to me that they would continue to ship a "defensive" shotgun with this defect. If someone got hurt as a result of this defect, using their shotgun defensively, I think there would be significant legal liability. I am pissed that I carried one of these shotguns around in bear country for a year or two, without knowledge of the problem.

[rob_s]

I would not buy a 1301 until Beretta fixes the problem. They have been made aware of the problem, and frankly it is astounding to me that they would continue to ship a "defensive" shotgun with this defect. If someone got hurt as a result of this defect, using their shotgun defensively, I think there would be significant legal liability. I am pissed that I carried one of these shotguns around in bear country for a year or two, without knowledge of the problem.

Two questions...

1) what semi-auto shotgun would you suggest for defensive use instead of the beretta?
2) if buying for 3-gun only, would you pick the beretta (gaming version) or something else?

[ASH556]

Two questions...

1) what semi-auto shotgun would you suggest for defensive use instead of the beretta?
2) if buying for 3-gun only, would you pick the beretta (gaming version) or something else?

Benelli. Still the best hands down.

Oh, by the way, in case nobody has figured it out yet: The Mossberg 930 does the same thing as the Beretta (mag-dump lockup) when you press the bolt release.

[GJM]

Yep, Benelli M2.

[Up1911Fan]

Well despite the issue, I went ahead and ordered one this morning along with the Nordic Kit. Anyone know what front sight's fit the Tactical. Tritium or FO.

[GJM]

If you will use it in bear country, per conventional wisdom, I would say no front sight.

[Up1911Fan]

Not an outdoors gun. Mostly a range toy, 3 Gun, maybe bedside.

[LOKNLOD]

If you will use it in bear country, per conventional wisdom, I would say no front sight.

Ha!

[Up1911Fan]

According to XS, none of their sights will work? Don't see anything listed on Beretta's page either. Has anyone replaced the front on the 1301 Tactical?

[GJM]

I have a regular 1301 and a TX-4. Not sure what front sight is on the 1301 Tactical? The TX has a white front sight which seems fine to my eyes.

[Up1911Fan]

Picked mine up this morning and installed the Nordic Kit. My front sight is crooked and I don't have a wrench to fit in the opening so a range trip is gonna have to wait.

[vandal]

I would love to see sling/light setups. The only one I've really seen is DocGKR's and he's using different extension.

For the sling I have the Nordic extension, and Nordic clamp with QD on the left plus a Magpul Paraclip adapter in it. On the buttstock I have the BFG M16 sling adapter that gives me a D ring on the top so I can use a MS2 sling.

For a light, on the right I have the rail and a M300B with a tape switch.

The rail that came with the Nordic clamp doesn't have enough slots to do both sling and light on one side. Are there rails that would screw into the Nordic clamp that have a couple more slots?

I would much prefer a solution that's not as wide -- maybe a bottom mounted light? I tried a Danger Close mount to pull (a different) light in closer, but that also positioned it higher than the barrel which was distracting and obscuring. Wish Surefire had a fore-end for this guy.

[JSGlock34]

New pistol grip model
(https://www.botach.com/beretta-1301-tactical-12ga-semi-auto-shotgun-6-1-shot-w-pistol-grip/)
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4300/9j9zreeu/products/47946/images/96382/130122_Tactical_LE_Configuration_right_view.jpg__4 6188.1440434051.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

[GJM]

Interesting, but the stock was never the problem.....

[LOKNLOD]

Interesting that it comes with the Nordic extension.

[HCM]

New pistol grip model
(https://www.botach.com/beretta-1301-tactical-12ga-semi-auto-shotgun-6-1-shot-w-pistol-grip/)
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4300/9j9zreeu/products/47946/images/96382/130122_Tactical_LE_Configuration_right_view.jpg__4 6188.1440434051.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

That is the new Mesa Tactical stock for the 1301. http://www.guns.com/2015/08/26/mesa-tactical-urbino-stock-for-beretta-1301-now-shipping/

[220Eric]

My winter project is to get a 24 inch 1301, have it cut to 18.5 inches, and add open sights (Trijicon HD front pistol sight milled into the vent rib with a small low profile rear pistol style sight). Our 20 gauge Benelli M2 set-up that way has been a constant companion lately, carrying 7+1 Brenneke slugs.

GJM, I was curious if you ever accomplished your winter project? I like that idea. If you chopped it, how do you like it? Did you get it re-threaded? Any thing you would do differently this winter?

[GJM]

GJM, I was curious if you ever accomplished your winter project? I like that idea. If you chopped it, how do you like it? Did you get it re-threaded? Any thing you would do differently this winter?

Nope, went to Benelli M2.

[220Eric]

Because of the bolt release/lifter?

[GJM]

Because of the bolt release/lifter?

Yep, and the ease of doing a 14 inch barrel with the M2.

[Ber1301TAC]

Yup thanks to this thread I traded away my 1301 I hope to get a Benelli m2 or m4 in the future. I wish Beretta would have acknowledged the problem and offered a fix.

[orionz06]

Everyone getting out of these and I still want one.


Sent from my Nokia 3310 using an owl

[Luke]

Yup thanks to this thread I traded away my 1301 I hope to get a Benelli m2 or m4 in the future. I wish Beretta would have acknowledged the problem and offered a fix.

We do offer screen name changes here at pistol-forum :)

[LOKNLOD]

If it makes you guys feel better, I've still got mine, and I still like it. :p

[helothar]

I too am looking for a good deal on one to use for a bird gun

[JodyH]

Finally got around to installing a Mesa Tactical stock on my 1301 (due to old wrist injuries, straight stocks hurt me) and getting it and my M4 out to the range for some "oranges to oranges" side by side comparisons.
The 1301 is the better shotgun in every way except when it comes to avoiding Murphy.
The 1301 was consistently faster to the first shot, faster on followup shots and just as accurate as my M4.

At 12 yards, 12" square steel target, #1 Federal LE132-1B Buckshot, start from low ready, safety engaged, 5 shots, 100% hits.
The 1301 was consistently around 1.85 seconds with the first shot in the .90 range and .22 splits.
The M4 was consistently around 2.10 seconds with the first shot around 1.1 and .24 splits.
The 1301 is just quicker to accelerate, stop, recover the sights and the safety is much faster to disengage.

At 25 yards both shotguns were putting all 15 pellets in the upper 1/2 of the A zone on a USPSA target.
At 50 yards both shotguns were putting 12-13 out of 15 pellets on USPSA paper.

I really enjoy shooting the 1301 and find it faster and easier to run than the M4.
But when I got back to the house the M4 was loaded and placed in the bedroom quick access safe and the 1301 was put in the storage safe.
That damn Murphy taunting shell release lock-down just kills an otherwise awesome shotgun for me.

[GJM]

An M2 gives you 1301 speed/handling, plus reliability in function.

[JodyH]

Jody, is 1301 a Tactical or Comp model? I want to send you modified lifter to try out.
Tactical

[JodyH]

An M2 gives you 1301 speed/handling, plus reliability in function.
With the added bonus of inertia driven detached retina recoil.
I like my gas autos, I'm a wuss in my old age.

I found the biggest time difference to the first shot was disengaging the safety, and the M2 and M4 share the same safety.
The splits were close enough to almost be a wash.
Transitions were slightly faster on the 1301 but tracking a single mover was the same.

[Beat Trash]

Can someone explain what the issue is with the 1301's shell release?

[SpyderMan2k4]

Can someone explain what the issue is with the 1301's shell release?

I'm sure someone else can do a better job, but I'll try. The bolt lever (under the ejection port) serves two functions. The main function is after your last round is fired, your bolt will lock to the rear. The bolt lever will stick out a little. You push it down/forward to release the bolt.

When the bolt is closed, if you rock the lever backwards and/or push the rear of the lever down, it moves the shell stop out of the way. If you push the lifter up (though the loading port) and rock the bolt lever backwards, the lifer will be out of the way and you will be able to release one shell at a time and manually unload the gun without running every shell through the chamber. The problem is, if the bolt lever is rocked backward/pushed down at the rear when the lifter is NOT pushed up (i.e. if you bump it off of a corner, piece of cover, etc) it'll move the shell stop. Since the lifter is DOWN, the shells will go into the receiver. I say shells, because 2 shells will move past the shell stop.

If you run the bolt, you'll empty your chamber, but the magazine spring is driving multiple shells into the rear of the receiver. You can't move the lifter, because one of the shells is partially on the lifter, partially still in the magazine tube, so it blocks it from moving. There's a couple ways to kind of clear it. The fast easy ways require tools, the slow painful ways can be done with your hands, but it SUCKS.

[WDW]

Can someone explain what the issue is with the 1301's shell release?

Long story short, if you depress it whilst the gun is loaded with shells in the mag tube, 2 shells will be released onto the lifter effectively shutting down the gun. It is not an easy situation to remedy & would be bad juju in a fight.

[GJM]

With the Comfortech stock on the M2, I frankly don't notice a material difference in recoil between the 1301 and M2. That said, the way I use my M2, recoil is pretty low down on my list. Here she is:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image.jpg1_zps2am0r6sb.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image.jpg1_zps2am0r6sb.jpg.html)

[SpyderMan2k4]

With the Comfortech stock on the M2, I frankly don't notice a material difference in recoil between the 1301 and M2. That said, the way I use my M2, recoil is pretty low down on my list. Here she is:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image.jpg1_zps2am0r6sb.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image.jpg1_zps2am0r6sb.jpg.html)

That thing is glorious

[JodyH]

With the Comfortech stock on the M2,
Due to my wrist issues (too many years of throwing right hooks with poor technique) I have to have a pistol gripped stock.
Preferably a Mesa Tactical w/Limbsaver.

[SpyderMan2k4]

Due to my wrist issues (too many years of throwing right hooks with poor technique) I have to have a pistol gripped stock.
Preferably a Mesa Tactical w/Limbsaver.

Is the angle of the Magpul stocks (obviously not compatible with the M2) usable, or does it need to be straighter? Just curious, my wrists prefer a more vertical angle as well.

[Doug]

GJM,

I love the short barrel with the vent rib.

Doug


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Beat Trash]

Thanks to all for the explanation about the issues with the 1301. It makes sense now.

[JodyH]

Is the angle of the Magpul stocks (obviously not compatible with the M2) usable, or does it need to be straighter? Just curious, my wrists prefer a more vertical angle as well.
Anything shallower than a AR grip angle (even my FAL is almost too flat) starts hurting.
AR's and Mesa Tactical shotgun stocks are just about perfect.

[vandal]

I'm praying for you to perfect the fix, since I only read to page 30 of this thread before buying my 1301.


Well, the lifter for the 1301 Tactical I ordered from Brownells didn't arrive until Friday and I didn't have time to modify it after this weekend.

However, I did have a few minutes to play around with some shims, a few of 1031s (two comps and a tactical), and I determined that the rear of the lifter needs to be built up 0.06" (essentially doubling its thickness) in order to avoid the multiple shells on the lifter problem. This means welding on a small piece of 16 ga. steel ought to do the trick.

Jody, I'll try (again) to get it modified and sent out this week, but it might take a bit longer.

[314159]

Having read the welded lifter solution, I say "Bravo" for innovative thinking. However, I've seen no discussion on what we might be losing by building up the rear of the lifter. Presumably the forward edge of the lifter has to be low enough to allow the shell to ride up on it to indeed be "lifted" for feeding. Not having a 1301 to look at right now; are there any tolerances that are being compromised by this modification? Such things as crud build up or even the timing of the working parts? This sounds like great idea but there is rarely a free lunch... Just wondering.

[Dave J]

The beauty of Tom's solution is that the lifter is still "all the way down" when it's supposed to be receiving a shell from the magazine. I sure can't see any downside to it.

[ASH556]

The Mossy 930 does the same F'n thing if you push the bolt release with a loaded tube. Curious why no massive outcry against them. I'm a Benelli guy, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but since a lot of 3gunners and tacticool shotgun guys are also running the Mossberg, I'm just curious.

[JodyH]

Because most shooters don't think things through to a worst case conclusion.

[JodyH]

Anytime engineers or lawyers write end user manuals they're a clusterfuck.
Stay in your lane.
;)

[314159]

Well, this does sound like a winner. If you intend to build and sell aftermarket lifters I foresee a vigorous trade. You may need to decide early what color Tesla you want. If you choose to avoid the headaches of the marketplace don't forget your buds here and please publish the design!

[HCM]

The Mossy 930 does the same F'n thing if you push the bolt release with a loaded tube. Curious why no massive outcry against them. I'm a Benelli guy, so I don't have a dog in the fight, but since a lot of 3gunners and tacticool shotgun guys are also running the Mossberg, I'm just curious.

How many of those guys are actually keeping a chamber empty shot / cruiser safe shotgun and how many of them practice deploying it from that condition? Plus the mossberg 930's have other reliability issues issues.

[314159]

I didn't realize you were part of the Gadget team, cool. I've got one on order... Thanks for all the good work and info!

[GJM]

They picked him for his good looks.

[LOKNLOD]

I've already detailed what's necessary -- adding 0.06" to the rear of the lifter (essentially doubling it's thickness) will do the trick. Probably the easiest way to accomplish this is to weld a small piece of 16 gauge steel to the area indicated in red on the image below.

I'm going to get a few modified and have some people I know and trust test the shit out of them and, assuming that it works for those guys and their guns the way it works for me and mine, I might put together a one-time "group buy" to get a batch of them done.

If a fellow had the capabilities to do all the welding/mods himself, this would be something that would lend itself well to a "core return" type setup -- get a few modified, then swap them in and out with folks so you've always got some more on hand.

I know you've got your hands full with plenty, I'm not suggesting you take that on...

[1slow]

From what I've seen a TIG or other weld material build up and grind to size might work. I do not know if this would create a heat treat problem for the part.
Another thought would be a male/female die set in a press like you mentioned.