Walther PDP New Duty pistol.

[GJM]

My live fire has stagnated, but I saw recently that Ben Stoeger has acquired a couple. Should be some interesting data points from a competitive perspective:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWJuAS_LMmU/

Between this, and a story on thefirearmblog, makes me wonder if Walther is trying to build some buzz. I have seen literally just one at a USPSA match to date.

[spyderco monkey]

While browsing Walthers, I saw Taylor Freelance has come out with these pretty spiffy brass backstaps for the PDP, which adds 3.8oz to help reduce recoil / improve balance.

Similar in concept to their Seattle Slug for the Glock, which I have and like a great deal (helps counter balance my WML.)

https://i.ibb.co/RbKDpnR/20210405-120156-97791.webp

If I end up snagging the 5" PDP, I plan on getting one of these brass backstraps in Black as well.

[LockedBreech]

As court staff I still get the qualified professional discount at at few places and there are a lot of well-priced PDPs. It's tempting. Can't help but feel like if I hold out for a bit prices will go back to cheap though. Especially depending on the SCOTUS decision and post-COVID supply chain easing. But I haven't bought a new service pistol in a few years and my buying finger is getting itchy.

Most likely I'll end up with another Glock or M&P 2.0. There's a reason those damn things multiply like bunnies in my safe.

[JTPHD]

As court staff I still get the qualified professional discount at at few places and there are a lot of well-priced PDPs. It's tempting. Can't help but feel like if I hold out for a bit prices will go back to cheap though. Especially depending on the SCOTUS decision and post-COVID supply chain easing. But I haven't bought a new service pistol in a few years and my buying finger is getting itchy.

Most likely I'll end up with another Glock or M&P 2.0. There's a reason those damn things multiply like bunnies in my safe.

I like my 5" FS well enough, but not enough to invest in all the ancillary equipment. Probably going to offload for another Glock/Beretta.

[LockedBreech]

I like my 5" FS well enough, but not enough to invest in all the ancillary equipment. Probably going to offload for another Glock/Beretta.

Thanks for the two cents, every data point helps.

Your point about the ancillary equipment is really what scares me off everything these days. I am already kitted out for Glocks and M2.0s. If there was one other platform I'd kit up for it would be the APX, since mine is absurdly good for the $324 I spent.

Between my current roster of Gen 4 17, Gen 5 17 MOS, Gen 5 19, Gen 3 23, M2.0 4.6" .45, M2.0 4" 9mm compact, M2.0 5" Pro Series, M2.0 Shield 9, and LCP Max, there just isn't much my current roster can't handle. And these ones are all supplied with holsters and ammo they like and they all run. I'm a lot more stingy with my money these days.

If something is going to move me, it'll probably be the 10mm M&Ps if they pan out.

[YVK]

I can't handle doin 50 pages. Does PDP have a large grip circumference / size than PPQ?

[spyderco monkey]

I like my 5" FS well enough, but not enough to invest in all the ancillary equipment. Probably going to offload for another Glock/Beretta.

How is the recoil / snappiness on the 5" fullsize?

I had sold my 4" PPQ compact because it was weirdly snappy, but I loved the ergos, trigger, and accuracy. I've been hoping the PDP / being a 5" would have created a milder shooting pistol.

[GJM]

I can't handle doin 50 pages. Does PDP have a large grip circumference / size than PPQ?

The grip is longer than a PPQ, as it uses 18 round magazines instead of 15. It is shaped and textured differently, but it is similar in width, with the PDP compact using PPQ magazines. The PDP is very lightweight, so those TF back straps might help.

[JTPHD]

How is the recoil / snappiness on the 5" fullsize?

I had sold my 4" PPQ compact because it was weirdly snappy, but I loved the ergos, trigger, and accuracy. I've been hoping the PDP / being a 5" would have created a milder shooting pistol.

To me, the recoil impulse feels soft / similar to comparable 5" striker guns. From memory, the 4" seemed snappier than say- a G19 but the 5" feels more like a G34 if that helps. I have a 509T on a CHPWS plate and also like how easy it is to track the dot compared to MOS guns.

[GJM]

For CO, there isn't much shooting difference between a PDP, M&P CORE or Glock. The bigger differences are with the Legion, Shadow 2 and Walther steel frames, due to weight.

[spyderco monkey]

To me, the recoil impulse feels soft / similar to comparable 5" striker guns. From memory, the 4" seemed snappier than say- a G19 but the 5" feels more like a G34 if that helps. I have a 509T on a CHPWS plate and also like how easy it is to track the dot compared to MOS guns.

Wonderful, thank you, thats exactly what I was hoping to hear. I'm looking for a G34 sized gun that shoots comparably soft, but isn't a G34, as I already have a 17L.

I may have to snag a SRO to go with it; looks almost like the PDP was designed for it.

https://americanhandgunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/HJA21-Walther-PDP_Lead2.jpg

[spyderco monkey]

Apparently the PDP slides are cross compatible across frames, which allows for integral comp builds.

This looks very tempting; 5" full size frame with the 4" slide + Parker Mountain Machine Comp.

https://scontent.flas1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/257479124_3172720942851567_2910655242514631046_n.j pg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=a26aad&_nc_ohc=t7PhjeKwh9MAX-1oGoR&_nc_ht=scontent.flas1-2.fna&oh=723e4d6d79e73792fe53f59a9875b5c1&oe=61A0DD8E

Downside is having to buy 2 pistols to create one.

[t1tan]

Apparently the PDP slides are cross compatible across frames, which allows for integral comp builds.

Downside is having to buy 2 pistols to create one.

They advertised that as a feature at launch but were unsure if they’d sell frames/slides standalone so like you said two pistols so I lost interest.

[spyderco monkey]

They advertised that as a feature at launch but were unsure if they’d sell frames/slides standalone so like you said two pistols so I lost interest.

I'm going to email them about whether they'll sell slides separately / offer the integral comp as a factory version, as they've shared photos of it multiple times on their FB page, so are clearly aware of the possibilities.

[GJM]

I have four, and the three I have shot a thousand or two rounds through have triggers that have degraded such that they are one pound heavier than they started. Has Walther addressed this yet?

[CakeEater]

I have four, and the three I have shot a thousand or two rounds through have triggers that have degraded such that they are one pound heavier than they started. Has Walther addressed this yet?

I’m subscribed to the same thread on WaltherForum concerning the issue. The member (Cross) mentioned the following:
“ What you’re describing sounds like the sticking striker block and trigger bar rub that used to happen with the P99 and PPQ. Does the PDP have the anti-friction coated striker block? The coated one is black and the coating can wear off. The uncoated striker block is silver and isn’t as smooth but also doesn’t have a coating that can wear out.

There’s a lubrication point for the trigger bar where it rubs against a frame spacer that needs a drop of oil every now and then. Walther isn’t Glock, that’s for sure.”

I believe another member mentioned they’ve corrected the issue in newer models. When I get back down to FL I hope to put a few rounds through my PDP Compact 4” and used PPQ, which has a stupid nice trigger. I’ll also be picking up a new/old stock PDP Compact 5” to play around with a slide swap and PMM comp. i Hope to report back any findings but hope someone jumps in with Walther’s response/update.

[GJM]

I’m subscribed to the same thread on WaltherForum concerning the issue. The member (Cross) mentioned the following:
“ What you’re describing sounds like the sticking striker block and trigger bar rub that used to happen with the P99 and PPQ. Does the PDP have the anti-friction coated striker block? The coated one is black and the coating can wear off. The uncoated striker block is silver and isn’t as smooth but also doesn’t have a coating that can wear out.

There’s a lubrication point for the trigger bar where it rubs against a frame spacer that needs a drop of oil every now and then. Walther isn’t Glock, that’s for sure.”

I believe another member mentioned they’ve corrected the issue in newer models. When I get back down to FL I hope to put a few rounds through my PDP Compact 4” and used PPQ, which has a stupid nice trigger. I’ll also be picking up a new/old stock PDP Compact 5” to play around with a slide swap and PMM comp. i Hope to report back any findings but hope someone jumps in with Walther’s response/update.

I posted in that WF thread this morning.

[revchuck38]

18-round mags back in stock. (https://waltherarms.com/walther-mag-fs-walther-9mm-18rd-new/)

[GJM]

Ok, like many things, this has gotten complicated. Back when I started messing with the PDP, I reported that my two well shot in PDP 4.5 inch pistols had developed some grit, and that my basically new in the box 4.5 PDP had a trigger that was one pound lighter. I just put them aside due to the trigger concern, and the lack of OEM 18 round mags combined with the follower issue.

YVK got me interested in these pistols again, and in the last few days I decided to try to sort things out. I posted on the Walther Forum, and a prolific Walther member there described specific lubrication steps, that I am not used to with Glock and M&P style maintenance. Once I lubed the pistols, the grit seemed better, but darn the new pistol was still a pound lighter. I even compared it to the Walther dynamic trigger in a Q4 SF, and the newish PDP trigger was lighter than the competition trigger.

Then I focused on getting replacement magazines with the new (blue) follower. I ended needing to call Walther, and almost immediately I was connected with a knowledgeable CS person, who got the multiple mags squared away.

Next, I removed the slide of the “amazing trigger” PDP, to figure out if the good part of the trigger was in the slide or frame. My immediate reaction was, gulp, I see why! The nearly new PDP with the amazing trigger was missing the firing pin (striker) block. Since the only wrenching I did on any of the PDP pistols was to install a CHPWS plate and optic, it is clear that the firing pin block was left off during assembly or by someone in the distribution channel. In any event, I called Walther CS again, and they immediately got me a FedEx label for the pistol to come back.

Later I hit the range with a PDP (with all its parts) and an SRO, to shoot along with my regular CO pistol, a M&P CORE with an Apex FSS trigger and an Apex barrel. The PDP really held its own, which was impressive given how long I have been shooting the M&P.

[fly out]

Ben Stoeger has started to put together a PDP, according to the most recent After Dark podcast. Could be interesting?

[GJM]

One negative of the PDP is no plate for a Romeo 3 Max. Really like the Romeo 3 Max/XL for low sun angles.

As it turns out, I still have two Walther Q5 match pistols, and the pieces interchange with the PDP. Since a R3 Max plate is available from Springer Precision, that is a work around to drop a Q5 Match upper on the PDP lower. Will see.

[GJM]

One negative of the PDP is no plate for a Romeo 3 Max. Really like the Romeo 3 Max/XL for low sun angles.

As it turns out, I still have two Walther Q5 match pistols, and the pieces interchange with the PDP. Since a R3 Max plate is available from Springer Precision, that is a work around to drop a Q5 Match upper on the PDP lower. Will see.

80704

[EVP]

Just curious as I am not knowledgeable on the Walther variants, but what does the PDP lower do for you that the Q5 frame doesn’t?

[GJM]

Just curious as I am not knowledgeable on the Walther variants, but what does the PDP lower do for you that the Q5 frame doesn’t?

Assuming you mean the Q5 match, and not the Q5 Steel Frame, the PDP full size has better texture, a longer grip, takes the 18 round MecGar magazines as opposed to the shorter 15 rounders, and has a beavertail.

I am just back from the range. The Q5 Match zeroed well and functioned reliably, but the 4.5 PDP was a much better shooting Carry Optics platform in my hands. The slide seemed flatter in recoil, the dot tracked more predictably, and the 4.5 PDP upper was just plain easier for me to shoot fast and accurately with.

[Brianjkeene]

Assuming you mean the Q5 match, and not the Q5 Steel Frame, the PDP full size has better texture, a longer grip, takes the 18 round MecGar magazines as opposed to the shorter 15 rounders, and has a beavertail.

I am just back from the range. The Q5 Match zeroed well and functioned reliably, but the 4.5 PDP was a much better shooting Carry Optics platform in my hands. The slide seemed flatter in recoil, the dot tracked more predictably, and the 4.5 PDP upper was just plain easier for me to shoot fast and accurately with.

I'm with you on the PDP tracking flatter than the PPQ in general. I feel I can shoot my 4" compact PDP faster and more effortlessly as compared to my 5" PPQ - doesn't make much sense. My 5" PDP with a Walther Dynamic trigger group is an entirely different animal altogether - that gun shoots as flat as my g34 and nearly as flat as my 5" m2.0 in my hands. These PDPs really have me anxious for a steel frame built on the PDP platform and a new high cap PPS.

[GJM]

I'm with you on the PDP tracking flatter than the PPQ in general. I feel I can shoot my 4" compact PDP faster and more effortlessly as compared to my 5" PPQ - doesn't make much sense. My 5" PDP with a Walther Dynamic trigger group is an entirely different animal altogether - that gun shoots as flat as my g34 and nearly as flat as my 5" m2.0 in my hands. These PDPs really have me anxious for a steel frame built on the PDP platform and a new high cap PPS.

Do you have a 4.5 PDP -- that seems like the sweet spot for optics?

[Brianjkeene]

Do you have a 4.5 PDP -- that seems like the sweet spot for optics?


Not yet. The 4.5 FS is my next purchase...just waiting for one to pop up locally used as I'm not in a rush.

[GJM]

Ben Stoeger just put a video up tonight saying he is shooting a PDP in CO next year. I have three matches now with the PDP in the last week and it continues to grow on me.

[4RNR]

No trigger issues?

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[GJM]

No trigger issues?

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

See post #519

Here is how I have mine set up.

81051

[4RNR]

Ok, like many things, this has gotten complicated. Back when I started messing with the PDP, I reported that my two well shot in PDP 4.5 inch pistols had developed some grit, and that my basically new in the box 4.5 PDP had a trigger that was one pound lighter. I just put them aside due to the trigger concern, and the lack of OEM 18 round mags combined with the follower issue.

YVK got me interested in these pistols again, and in the last few days I decided to try to sort things out. I posted on the Walther Forum, and a prolific Walther member there described specific lubrication steps, that I am not used to with Glock and M&P style maintenance. Once I lubed the pistols, the grit seemed better, but darn the new pistol was still a pound lighter. I even compared it to the Walther dynamic trigger in a Q4 SF, and the newish PDP trigger was lighter than the competition trigger.

Then I focused on getting replacement magazines with the new (blue) follower. I ended needing to call Walther, and almost immediately I was connected with a knowledgeable CS person, who got the multiple mags squared away.

Next, I removed the slide of the “amazing trigger” PDP, to figure out if the good part of the trigger was in the slide or frame. My immediate reaction was, gulp, I see why! The nearly new PDP with the amazing trigger was missing the firing pin (striker) block. Since the only wrenching I did on any of the PDP pistols was to install a CHPWS plate and optic, it is clear that the firing pin block was left off during assembly or by someone in the distribution channel. In any event, I called Walther CS again, and they immediately got me a FedEx label for the pistol to come back.

Later I hit the range with a PDP (with all its parts) and an SRO, to shoot along with my regular CO pistol, a M&P CORE with an Apex FSS trigger and an Apex barrel. The PDP really held its own, which was impressive given how long I have been shooting the M&P.




See post #519

Here is how I have mine set up.

81051

So if I understand you correctly....

The trigger got a little grittier but lighter because of the missing firing pin block?



Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[GJM]

No. The triggers got grittier because they needed lube in different places than a Glock. The trigger I was comparing them to was missing the firing pin block.

[Brianjkeene]

Ben Stoeger just put a video up tonight saying he is shooting a PDP in CO next year. I have three matches now with the PDP in the last week and it continues to grow on me.

Where is the video located? I checked his FB, Instagram, and YouTube and didn’t see it.

[GJM]

Where is the video located? I checked his FB, Instagram, and YouTube and didn’t see it.

My wife is a member of his training group, and saw it there.

[Blackbag]

No. The triggers got grittier because they needed lube in different places than a Glock. The trigger I was comparing them to was missing the firing pin block.

Is there a good lubrication diagram or listing somewhere out there by any chance?

[4RNR]

No. The triggers got grittier because they needed lube in different places than a Glock. The trigger I was comparing them to was missing the firing pin block.Gotcha.

Interesting. I've never ever, not even once lubed a glock trigger on purpose and never had it feel any different. On any Glock. To he honest I've never had it happen on any gun but I have the most trigger time on Glocks

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

I haven't handled a PDP, but the backstrap curve seems deeper than the Q5, and the effective grip angle looks less vertical (more like CZ). Is that an illusion?

[GJM]

I haven't handled a PDP, but the backstrap curve seems deeper than the Q5, and the effective grip angle looks less vertical (more like CZ). Is that an illusion?

Not sure whether you mean the Q5 match (polymer) or Q5 steel frame, because they have different grips (SF has a beaver tail). Both Q5 models use 15 round magazines, meaning they have more of a G19 length grip. The PDP 4.5 has a full G17 length grip and uses 18 round mags as standard.

Because of the flat in the PDP beaver tail area, I need to bring my thumb more around the left side, to avoid the flat hitting the base of my thumb. The PDP is abrupt, but cycles very fast. The first stage I shot it in last week, I felt like a Camry driver given a 911, because I was way behind the gun. Didn't take long to adjust to and appreciate that aspect of the PDP!

[Clusterfrack]

Not sure whether you mean the Q5 match (polymer) or Q5 steel frame, because they have different grips (SF has a beaver tail).

All the Walthers I've handled and shot have quite vertical "1911/2011" grip angles. I'm wondering if the PDP is different, and more CZ like?

[cheby]

I haven't handled a PDP, but the backstrap curve seems deeper than the Q5, and the effective grip angle looks less vertical (more like CZ). Is that an illusion?

I handled one of these at a gun counter. It was closer to 2011 to me. Felt right.

[Brianjkeene]

All the Walthers I've handled and shot have quite vertical "1911/2011" grip angles. I'm wondering if the PDP is different, and more CZ like?

The PDP feels very vertical to me - points alot like a p320 to me.

[Chomps]

Just a heads up,.. For those that have been searching. Full size, 18 rounders are in stock here as of this posting;

https://dkfirearms.com/product/walther-pdp-9mm-18-round-magazine/

Ordered a couple 15 round mags from them with no issues beyond occasional slightly slow shipping. 👍🏻

[kwb377]

Picked up a 4.5" full-size PDP this weekend at my local Bass Pro for $550. It was in their used display case, but appears unfired (and was $50 cheaper than the new one a few cases down).

The owner's manual was missing, so I didn't know if the original owner had used the "free plate" coupon or not. I went on Walther's website yesterday and plugged my info and the serial number into the form and hoped for the best...got an email an hour later that my plate request was processed and prepped for shipping.

I've scanned through the thread, but didn't see a definitive answer...is the free OEM plate acceptable or is it better to spend the @$70 for the CHPWS plate?

I can't remember if it was here or else where I read the "feels like airsoft" comment, but I noticed a definite difference in "heft" compared to my VP9 and P10C I also had on the workbench last night. I decided to weigh them and was surprised to learn that the PDP was only 1 oz. lighter than the CZ, and @ 1.5oz. lighter than the HK...it surely "feels" much lighter. Looking forward to putting some rounds through it...maybe it'll nudge my P10C (which supplanted my VP9) out of my duty holster for work.

[GJM]

Picked up a 4.5" full-size PDP this weekend at my local Bass Pro for $550. It was in their used display case, but appears unfired (and was $50 cheaper than the new one a few cases down).

The owner's manual was missing, so I didn't know if the original owner had used the "free plate" coupon or not. I went on Walther's website yesterday and plugged my info and the serial number into the form and hoped for the best...got an email an hour later that my plate request was processed and prepped for shipping.

I've scanned through the thread, but didn't see a definitive answer...is the free OEM plate acceptable or is it better to spend the @$70 for the CHPWS plate?

I can't remember if it was here or else where I read the "feels like airsoft" comment, but I noticed a definite difference in "heft" compared to my VP9 and P10C I also had on the workbench last night. I decided to weigh them and was surprised to learn that the PDP was only 1 oz. lighter than the CZ, and @ 1.5oz. lighter than the HK...it surely "feels" much lighter. Looking forward to putting some rounds through it...maybe it'll nudge my P10C (which supplanted my VP9) out of my duty holster for work.

I really like these:

https://taylorfreelancestore.com/walther-pdp-full-size-backstrap-brass-black/

[saberwalk]

Picked up a 4.5" full-size PDP this weekend at my local Bass Pro for $550. It was in their used display case, but appears unfired (and was $50 cheaper than the new one a few cases down).

The owner's manual was missing, so I didn't know if the original owner had used the "free plate" coupon or not. I went on Walther's website yesterday and plugged my info and the serial number into the form and hoped for the best...got an email an hour later that my plate request was processed and prepped for shipping.

I've scanned through the thread, but didn't see a definitive answer...is the free OEM plate acceptable or is it better to spend the @$70 for the CHPWS plate?

I can't remember if it was here or else where I read the "feels like airsoft" comment, but I noticed a definite difference in "heft" compared to my VP9 and P10C I also had on the workbench last night. I decided to weigh them and was surprised to learn that the PDP was only 1 oz. lighter than the CZ, and @ 1.5oz. lighter than the HK...it surely "feels" much lighter. Looking forward to putting some rounds through it...maybe it'll nudge my P10C (which supplanted my VP9) out of my duty holster for work.

Using the free plate on mine and it seems to be holding up just fine. Probably a bad habit but I tend to grab the optic when racking my slide. Have experienced no issues doing this. Have to say, it is my #3 favorite handgun after the PX4 and C2. Its the one striker fired pistol that I shoot really well. Was in the bulls eye all day this past range weekend from 10 and 15 yards out.

[P30]

If you are interested in the history of Walther pistols and understand a bit German, then this is for you (brand-new video):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciCvS2mxuWw

[P30]

and understand a bit German
For those who don't, Larry Vickers went to the Walther museum in Germany:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNZjuhMSJDk

(I remembered the video and just re-found it. Walther fans perhaps already know the video.)

[Steve m]

Looking for advice. I have been a dedicated Glock (IDPA, classes etc) shooter for probably 15 years. The PDP compact interests me. Looking for opinions from those who have shot/own both.
-Shoot ability of the pdp compared to glock.
-conceal-ability of the pdp ( I carry appendix) Except shooting IDPA
-practical accuracy with range vs self defense ammo
- any long term issues


Thanks for the assist
Steve

[GJM]

Looking for advice. I have been a dedicated Glock (IDPA, classes etc) shooter for probably 15 years. The PDP compact interests me. Looking for opinions from those who have shot/own both.
-Shoot ability of the pdp compared to glock.
-conceal-ability of the pdp ( I carry appendix) Except shooting IDPA
-practical accuracy with range vs self defense ammo
- any long term issues


Thanks for the assist
Steve

The PDP compact and 19 are both great choices. The PDP trigger will be easier than the Glock trigger for many shooters, since being able to shoot a Glock trigger well means you can pretty much shoot anything, where the reverse may not be the case. Something to figure out is whether the corner of the flat beaver tail on the PDP batters the joint at the base of your thumb. It does on a PPQ and PDP, and causes me significant discomfort -- callous and bruising.

[Steve m]

GJM, thanks for the info, i think ill see if the two local indoor ranges have one to rent, then i can do some non draw drills and compare and check discomfort level. I do smooth out under my glock trigger guard.

[TCFD273]

The PDP compact and 19 are both great choices. The PDP trigger will be easier than the Glock trigger for many shooters, since being able to shoot a Glock trigger well means you can pretty much shoot anything, where the reverse may not be the case. Something to figure out is whether the corner of the flat beaver tail on the PDP batters the joint at the base of your thumb. It does on a PPQ and PDP, and causes me significant discomfort -- callous and bruising.

Have you experienced the PDP being snappy?

Trying to make sure I’m not crazy here. I picked one up today and headed to the range. Unless I’m doing something wrong….my G26 tracks much better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Have you experienced the PDP being snappy?

Trying to make sure I’m not crazy here. I picked one up today and headed to the range. Unless I’m doing something wrong….my G26 tracks much better.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Disregard feel and look at the timer -- snappier and also faster to return.

[ldunnmobile]

Since Walther is kindly providing options, what seems to be the preferred slide length for a CO gamer gun?

[GJM]

Since Walther is kindly providing options, what seems to be the preferred slide length for a CO gamer gun?

I think the 4.5 slide with the full size frame.

Back to the snappy feeling -- the first match I shot with the PDP was comical. Coming from the M&P five inch CORE, the PDP was ready to fire again way before me, and I felt like a Camry driver in a 911 for the first time.

[ldunnmobile]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/17/shot-2022-walther-unveils-pdp-sd-pro/

Reinforced optic cut?

[backtrail540]

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/01/17/shot-2022-walther-unveils-pdp-sd-pro/

Reinforced optic cut?

82990

[Archer1440]

THIS is why I always wait at least a year before jumping on a new pistol. Looks like a number of things they perhaps should have done, out of the gate.

Hope the magwell is removable.

[ldunnmobile]

If that magwell ISNT removeable what an epic fail. Has to be.

[Archer1440]

If that magwell ISNT removeable what an epic fail. Has to be.

There’s a roll pin in the back strap and a connector lug on the mag well visible in the images, so I’m sure it is.

[Larry Sellers]

I know it's blasphemy, I'm looking for 10 round mags for the compact PDP. If anyone has a lead or a link I would greatly appreciate it!

[Steve m]

I just picked up a full size with the 4 in barrell, mounted a Holosun 507C on a CHPWS plate.

What is everyone using as BUIS?

[GJM]

I just picked up a full size with the 4 in barrell, mounted a Holosun 507C on a CHPWS plate.

What is everyone using as BUIS?

Ameriglo Gl-511, but be prepared to do some filing on the bottom of the rear sight.

[Steve m]

Thanks Ordering now.

[Chomps]

I posted this in the Walther forums regarding trigger pull. By the third clip, I have a little over 2K rounds thru it.
(Since in some of the posts here it sppears it might be relevant,.. I should disclose that I believe it’s only been cleaned & lubed twice at most in that time.)

I’ve had the gun for a year now. Im still getting the hang of all the technical jargon and procedures with owning & maintaining a firearm, so please excuse any improper or inaccurate use of terminology. (You guys got more freakin’ acronyms than the GD military did. Lol!)

Here’s the post.

Apologies for all the guessing on the round count. I haven’t been keeping any kind of log. Just guesstimates based on average range visits per month and round counts of 150-250 per session.
Assume any stated round counts are conservative and likely a tad low compared to actual rounds fired. 👍🏻😎

PDP Trigger, First 500-800 rounds,…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ESkhk3CjEOg

Second clip,.. approximately 1200-1500 rounds?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RCC7fHaACQ0&feature=youtu.be

3rd clip,.. 2K+ rounds.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TtALZVmjqRo

[GlockenSpiel]

I was surprised to see Walther is still doing a 30-day money back guarantee: https://waltherarms.com/guarantee/

Anyone utilized this? I've yet to shoot a PDP but this makes it pretty tempting, if I can get a few free weekends strung together to really try it out.

[HCountyGuy]

So Walther has released a new version of the PDP, the F-Series which is tailored more to females. Reduced circumferences, easier racking through a two-piece striker assembly among the changes.

https://waltherarms.com/pdp-f-series-3-5/

[GJM]

So Walther has released a new version of the PDP, the F-Series which is tailored more to females. Reduced circumferences, easier racking through a two-piece striker assembly among the changes.

https://waltherarms.com/pdp-f-series-3-5/

Walther gets points for these.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Walther gets points for these.

I also suspect they have made something that a percentage of men out there will be happy with. I struggle with my short fingers on most all double stack pistols and it's clear they are just a poor fit for me while I can 'make it work'. The 2.56" trigger reach has my attention because anything around 2 3/4" or more tends to be too far. I just bought P365 and it feels perfect in that regard. Will be getting P320 soon because it also appears to have a very short trigger reach without even considering addition to the small grip frame module.

I suspect this is much along the lines of Jeff Cooper's words on stock fit... being easier for someone to use stocks that are too short for them than too long. I would love to see manufacturers reduce trigger reach on most double stack pistols across the board. i feel it would improve many shooters with little detriment to larger hands. Especially if they used interchangeable backstraps that actually changed trigger reach and not just more pronounced humps that don't change reach.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

https://waltherarms.com/2022/04/19/walther-f-series-product-features/

Videos on individual features of the new PDP F series.

[GJM]

Does it have the improved optics cut?

[Noah]

Does it have the improved optics cut?


The digital graphic in the video was the original plain cut but I wouldn't take that as gospel proof that it doesn't.

[Archer1440]

I also suspect they have made something that a percentage of men out there will be happy with. I struggle with my short fingers on most all double stack pistols and it's clear they are just a poor fit for me while I can 'make it work'. The 2.56" trigger reach has my attention because anything around 2 3/4" or more tends to be too far. I just bought P365 and it feels perfect in that regard. Will be getting P320 soon because it also appears to have a very short trigger reach without even considering addition to the small grip frame module.

I suspect this is much along the lines of Jeff Cooper's words on stock fit... being easier for someone to use stocks that are too short for them than too long. I would love to see manufacturers reduce trigger reach on most double stack pistols across the board. i feel it would improve many shooters with little detriment to larger hands. Especially if they used interchangeable backstraps that actually changed trigger reach and not just more pronounced humps that don't change reach.

My hands are 99th percentile (quote large) but I can vouch for the fact that, slide bite and similar issues aside, it’s less of a problem for the large handed to properly run a smaller pistol than for a small handed person to properly run a too-large pistol.

Even though it is WAY too small for me, one of my fastest and most accurate pistols (for me) is my old Colt Gunsite CCO with the thin stocks. And I can handle a P365 just fine.

Walther did a good thing, here.

[Lex Luthier]

I just came here to post the news on the F series. Choices are good. I look forward to checking one out.

[GJM]

The digital graphic in the video was the original plain cut but I wouldn't take that as gospel proof that it doesn't.

Hope they have gone to the new cut, or it is a miss. Walther did an amazing job with this video!

https://vimeo.com/699510342


https://vimeo.com/699510342

[G19Fan]

This is brilliant. If glock would do this for a g19 I would be 100% interested

[Shotgun]

Hope they have gone to the new cut, or it is a miss.

?? Walther change the grip stippling?

Excellent marketing video. Thanks for posting that.

[Noah]

?? Walther change the grip stippling?

Excellent marketing video. Thanks for posting that.

The updated optics cut.

[RevolverRob]

Did they ever fix the triggers getting worse as time goes on?

[LockedBreech]

So Walther has released a new version of the PDP, the F-Series which is tailored more to females. Reduced circumferences, easier racking through a two-piece striker assembly among the changes.

https://waltherarms.com/pdp-f-series-3-5/

This is brilliant and my fiancée would love something like this, she struggles just a little running slides. If it shows itself to be durable and reliable after a year or two I’d spend the money. Walther tends to be pretty squared away in the quality department.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hot Sauce]

Hope they have gone to the new cut, or it is a miss. Walther did an amazing job with this video!

https://vimeo.com/699510342


https://vimeo.com/699510342

They even apprehended the perp in front of a Clint Eastwood mural. Some good directing.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

They even apprehended the perp in front of a Clint Eastwood mural. Some good directing.

I noticed, wasn't sure who was pictured but had a feeling. Just watched "The Mule" last night... great movie.

[Casey]

Hope they have gone to the new cut, or it is a miss. Walther did an amazing job with this video!

https://vimeo.com/699510342


https://vimeo.com/699510342
1:19 - "IT HAS SIGHTS"

Made me chuckle. Good video overall, though.

[MandoWookie]

They even apprehended the perp in front of a Clint Eastwood mural. Some good directing.

Its actually from the game Red Dead Redemption 2, it's the official concept artwork for the main character.

https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTc0NDU3NzQwOTg5NjM3OTky/arthur-morgan-a-red-dead-redemption-2-character-analysis.jpg

[Doc_Glock]

Walther did an amazing job with this video!

https://vimeo.com/699510342


https://vimeo.com/699510342

Wow no kidding!

[JonInWA]

That's a pretty impressive video-both in terms of message, product, and use. Much more in-depth than most advertising.

This gun could be a viable consideration for my wife with it's 20% reduced manual slide effort needed, as she has difficulties in racking the slides of other semi-autos, even my HK VP with it's helpful slide charger handles.

Because of this, up to now the only really viable contempory contender for her was a Ruger LCR. She still may go that route, but at least here's another possible contender, and Walther gets points for ergonomically configuring for the female hand structure.

Best, Jon

[Lex Luthier]

The IWB rig that the woman with the braids was wearing while trying the pistol at the range- was that a PHlster Enigma?

If so, they've done well. This video could sell quite a few of those holster systems, too.

RevolverRob - not sure about that. I'm guessing GJM has the definitive info on the trigger degradation issue.

[Noah]

The IWB rig that the woman with the braids was wearing while trying the pistol at the range- was that a PHlster Enigma?

If so, they've done well. This video could sell quite a few of those holster systems, too.

RevolverRob - not sure about that. I'm guessing GJM has the definitive info on the trigger degradation issue.

Yep, Enigma.

[EVP]

Another good striker fired option for smaller stature female shooters.


The video I think is actually sub par. Wasted opportunity.Could of been done a lot better in my opinion. Why not make the focus of this new “duty pistol” for females actually about all the awesome ladies that are in law enforcement! But either way I care not about companies cheesy promo ads.

[Dave Williams]

Best commercial since the Glock G30S SIS commercial.

[JodyH]

Any firearms company willing to market their pistol with a scene showing the bad guy "10 toes up" is alright with me, especially in these hyper sensitive snowflake pandering times we live in.
I may go buy a PDP just because. LOL

[Paul D]

That old man who left the food truck before the goons showed up looks like Michael Talbott AKA Switek from Miami Vice. Just saying...

[MandoWookie]

Another good striker fired option for smaller stature female shooters.


The video I think is actually sub par. Wasted opportunity.Could of been done a lot better in my opinion. Why not make the focus of this new “duty pistol” for females actually about all the awesome ladies that are in law enforcement! But either way I care not about companies cheesy promo ads.

Because the target market is females, and the majority of them are not in LE? Agency sales I bet would not be very lucrative.

[Lex Luthier]

Because the target market is females, and the majority of them are not in LE? Agency sales I bet would not be very lucrative.

This makes me ponder if any Depts considering a contract for sidearms would authorize two different variations of the same series for issue.
If there are just two or three differences between the now-maturing PDP platform and the new F-series variant (say just the striker and RSA),
and factory and armorer support are good, how likely are those contracts to be approved or torpedoed?

I have yet to test fire a PDP, but would love to get a sense of the differences between a 4" compact and the equivalent 4" F series.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

New Holosun SCS for PDP

https://www.instagram.com/p/CeoJUcVqNWU/

[Tensaw]

New Holosun SCS for PDP

https://www.instagram.com/p/CeoJUcVqNWU/

So,... compatible with the 1.0 or 2.0 footprint, or both?

[Prepper_Pig]

I’ve now shot all of the PDP pistol series variants twice as part of Walther-sponsored events (The Walther factory is local to me) and most recently I got to shoot the F series once. First impressions of the F series in the hands is phenomenal. I definitely prefer the smaller grip and the ergos over the standard PDP which is still better than average. I think where it falls short and where the PDP falls short is in felt/perceived recoil. I know people will say it’s subjective and it is but I own and shoot many many different pistols and the recoil impulse is extremely unpleasant and harsh for a 9mm chambering. Quick follow-up/double-tap shots from 15 yard were impossible to keep on paper at 15 yards. I was shooting with four other law enforcement shooters and they all concurred. My agency currently issues the Glock 45 which I dislike but at least the 9mm Glock is pleasant to shoot. All of the PDP guns including the F series felt like a stout .40s/w or a Glock 31 in .357 Sig. If Walther plans to take a bite out of the LE market they will have to address this issue otherwise getting agencies to make the switch isn’t gonna happen (plus the cost difference). I really want to like the PDP series and especially the F series but it’s a hard pass for me. I also don’t understand the marketing of the F-Series so strongly towards women but that’s a different topic for a different discussion.

I suspect the harsh recoil stems from the weight of the recoil spring system and perhaps the tight design of the chamber from what the LE sales rep had to say, but that’s just a guess.

[Hstanton1]

I’ve now shot all of the PDP pistol series variants twice as part of Walther-sponsored events (The Walther factory is local to me) and most recently I got to shoot the F series once. First impressions of the F series in the hands is phenomenal. I definitely prefer the smaller grip and the ergos over the standard PDP which is still better than average. I think where it falls short and where the PDP falls short is in felt/perceived recoil. I know people will say it’s subjective and it is but I own and shoot many many different pistols and the recoil impulse is extremely unpleasant and harsh for a 9mm chambering. Quick follow-up/double-tap shots from 15 yard were impossible to keep on paper at 15 yards. I was shooting with four other law enforcement shooters and they all concurred. My agency currently issues the Glock 45 which I dislike but at least the 9mm Glock is pleasant to shoot. All of the PDP guns including the F series felt like a stout .40s/w or a Glock 31 in .357 Sig. If Walther plans to take a bite out of the LE market they will have to address this issue otherwise getting agencies to make the switch isn’t gonna happen (plus the cost difference). I really want to like the PDP series and especially the F series but it’s a hard pass for me. I also don’t understand the marketing of the F-Series so strongly towards women but that’s a different topic for a different discussion.

I suspect the harsh recoil stems from the weight of the recoil spring system and perhaps the tight design of the chamber from what the LE sales rep had to say, but that’s just a guess.

The PDP really is a bizarrely snappy pistol.

[spyderco monkey]

I’ve now shot all of the PDP pistol series variants twice as part of Walther-sponsored events (The Walther factory is local to me) and most recently I got to shoot the F series once. First impressions of the F series in the hands is phenomenal. I definitely prefer the smaller grip and the ergos over the standard PDP which is still better than average. I think where it falls short and where the PDP falls short is in felt/perceived recoil. I know people will say it’s subjective and it is but I own and shoot many many different pistols and the recoil impulse is extremely unpleasant and harsh for a 9mm chambering. Quick follow-up/double-tap shots from 15 yard were impossible to keep on paper at 15 yards. I was shooting with four other law enforcement shooters and they all concurred. My agency currently issues the Glock 45 which I dislike but at least the 9mm Glock is pleasant to shoot. All of the PDP guns including the F series felt like a stout .40s/w or a Glock 31 in .357 Sig. If Walther plans to take a bite out of the LE market they will have to address this issue otherwise getting agencies to make the switch isn’t gonna happen (plus the cost difference). I really want to like the PDP series and especially the F series but it’s a hard pass for me. I also don’t understand the marketing of the F-Series so strongly towards women but that’s a different topic for a different discussion.

I suspect the harsh recoil stems from the weight of the recoil spring system and perhaps the tight design of the chamber from what the LE sales rep had to say, but that’s just a guess.

Thats really a bummer to hear; I had hoped they had solved recoil with the PDP.

I sold my otherwise fantastic PPQ because 115gr @ 1075fps plinking ammo felt like 40 s&w. My buddy ditched his VP9 for similar recoil concerns.

At the time I had hypothesized that Walther was using a harder / more rigid polymer then Glock or CZ's P09 (the pistols I shot the PPQ alongside) and that the harder polymer transferred more shock/recoil energy.

Whatever it is, its super weird.

Weight wise, the PDP compact (4"/15rd) is basically identical to the G19, so thats not the cause.

PDP = 21.4oz w/out mag
G19 = 21.16oz w/out mag

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

I’ve now shot all of the PDP pistol series variants twice as part of Walther-sponsored events (The Walther factory is local to me) and most recently I got to shoot the F series once. First impressions of the F series in the hands is phenomenal. I definitely prefer the smaller grip and the ergos over the standard PDP which is still better than average. I think where it falls short and where the PDP falls short is in felt/perceived recoil. I know people will say it’s subjective and it is but I own and shoot many many different pistols and the recoil impulse is extremely unpleasant and harsh for a 9mm chambering. Quick follow-up/double-tap shots from 15 yard were impossible to keep on paper at 15 yards. I was shooting with four other law enforcement shooters and they all concurred. My agency currently issues the Glock 45 which I dislike but at least the 9mm Glock is pleasant to shoot. All of the PDP guns including the F series felt like a stout .40s/w or a Glock 31 in .357 Sig. If Walther plans to take a bite out of the LE market they will have to address this issue otherwise getting agencies to make the switch isn’t gonna happen (plus the cost difference). I really want to like the PDP series and especially the F series but it’s a hard pass for me. I also don’t understand the marketing of the F-Series so strongly towards women but that’s a different topic for a different discussion.

I suspect the harsh recoil stems from the weight of the recoil spring system and perhaps the tight design of the chamber from what the LE sales rep had to say, but that’s just a guess.

I heard P&S Modcast on the PDP and one of the Walther reps mentioned the chamber being stepped and how it was actually causing his 9mm to make some seriously high power factors which he later discovered was because of the added pressures the stepped chamber allowed for. It makes sense that the 9mm is a sort of tapered case and without the step it doesn't seal well, Glock certainly is not stepped chamber. Something you could do to test this for yourself is buy aftermarket barrel which is not stepped and see if that helps.

[revchuck38]

This may be an apples-and-oranges comparison, but my P99Cs have stepped chambers and don't show additional velocity compared to my PX4s, which have typical Beretta "generous" chambers. Velocities are typically 10-20 fps slower from the P99Cs, which is about what would be expected from a 1/2" shorter barrel. The leade (distance from the end of the chamber to where the rifling begins) is shorter on the Walthers as well. This doesn't matter for factory ammo or my handloads using FMJ bullets, but caused me to have to shorten the overall length of my handloads using new-style (no lube groove) coated lead round nose bullets. The shortened leade has at least a theoretical advantage for accuracy, and the P99Cs are quite accurate.

I don't know if the chamber dimensions are the same for the P99C and the PDP. I also don't have a similar pistol - say, a G26 - to shoot side-by-side to see if recoil is harsher, but it doesn't feel anything like a .40 S&W version of the gun might.

[Kanye Wyoming]

I had this DPM recoil spring in an old P99. Honestly expected it to be a useless gimmick but it did indeed make a subtle yet noticeable difference in the snappiness. P99 checks so many boxes except it can’t take a red dot, so one do these days I’ll get around to selling it. Anyway, figured I’d try the DPM spring in the PDP compact. Made a similarly subtle but noticeable difference in the snappiness, and now I really enjoy shooting it, with results on par with if not better than my other faves. With the weak Euro, looks like they’re about $82 these days, and my recollection is that even though they’re shipped from Greece, it only takes about a week to arrive.

https://www.dpmsystems.com/walther-p99-ppq-ppq-m2-q4-tac-q5-match-polymer-frame/

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

I had this DPM recoil spring in an old P99. Honestly expected it to be a useless gimmick but it did indeed make a subtle yet noticeable difference in the snappiness. P99 checks so many boxes except it can’t take a red dot, so one do these days I’ll get around to selling it. Anyway, figured I’d try the DPM spring in the PDP compact. Made a similarly subtle but noticeable difference in the snappiness, and now I really enjoy shooting it, with results on par with if not better than my other faves. With the weak Euro, looks like they’re about $82 these days, and my recollection is that even though they’re shipped from Greece, it only takes about a week to arrive.

https://www.dpmsystems.com/walther-p99-ppq-ppq-m2-q4-tac-q5-match-polymer-frame/

Also worth noting the stepped chambers are in virtually every Walther pistol for many decades now, I believe since the P-88 if I recall it was introduced.

[Archer1440]

Stepped chambers have always been a part of the 9mm Luger standard going back to the drawings of 1908. Sure, some modern pistols don’t have that feature, but it was part of the original design.

The feature enhances obturation and assists in reducing extraction force.

[Shadowman1433]

Kind of surprised that people are complaining about the recoil of the PDP. I find it to be a very soft shooter. I certainly wouldn't consider the recoil harsh or snappy.

[MandoWookie]

Stepped chambers have always been a part of the 9mm Luger standard going back to the drawings of 1908. Sure, some modern pistols don’t have that feature, but it was part of the original design.

The feature enhances obturation and assists in reducing extraction force.

Georg Luger hated straight walled cartridges, thought the 7.63 Parabellum was superior, but his customers wanted a bigger bullet so he complied. The stepped chambers were a compromise to retain some of the advantages he saw inherent in a bottlenecked cartridge.

Its ironic that the 9mm was developed as a shortcut way to increase caliber without having to change tooling too much , and has now become the global standard.

[YVK]

I picked up one of these bad boys, or girls, a couple of days ago. Not sure of reasons. Maybe I was thinking to get it for my wife but she doesn't shoot. I settled on reasoning that I got an "F" gun because I am such a ladies man. I was looking for a 4 inch version 'cause I thought it will be easier to shoot. My LGS had both 4 and 3.5. After looking both over, I bought a 3.5. Dear Walther, if you're designing a handgun supposedly for women's ccw, do you think that slimming down not only a grip but a slide too would be important? The slide is wider than that of G19 and blockier than P30's. The 4 inch version looked huge.

Couldn't see worth a damn on the indoors range with irons sights so I just shot a little for an overall feel, also shot a G19 and P30 for baseline. I didn't feel that it was particularly hard in recoil. Maybe slightly sharper impulse, I don't know. I didn't bother to use a timer but hitting A zone with 5 rounds as fast as I could but with reactive aiming felt the same for all guns. I actually liked what I saw on a target better with Walther but that was a small sample. Tried SHO-WHO, again maybe slightly sharper push but not much. PDP is also lighter than both G19 and P30. I'll share more thoughts once I put a dot on it.

[revchuck38]

...maybe slightly sharper push but not much. PDP is also lighter than both G19 and P30.

That in itself could explain the "sharper push."

[YVK]

That in itself could explain the "sharper push."

Too many variables to say why-what. PDP is just over one ounce lighter than G19 but Glock's slide is over 2 ounces heavier. P30 is three ounces heavier overall but, despite it being a 4 incher like a G19, the slides differ in only 0.5 oz between it and the PDP. They all have to feel different.

Somebody posted that folks couldn't hit to their satisfaction at 15 yards and that caught my attention. Unfortunately with the lighting conditions and the sights that PDP came with there was no point for me taking it that far out. I'll see what it does when the plate is here.

[Archer1440]

I had the honor of breaking in my local range’s rental PDP when it came in last year, and found it easy to shoot, sights were no worse than typical Glock placeholders, and the trigger was very good. On a timer, I had no problem performing doubles at 15 yards with .20 splits and nothing left the A zone.

In addition, nearly 14 months later, and who knows how many thousands of rounds it has seen as a rental, the trigger is still fine.

My objection to the piece at the time was the under engineered optics mount. Which, predictably has been corrected.

[Evil_Ed]

Just purchased one...I have some P99 mag pouches that'll finally get used again, a holster from Tenicor on order, and some more mags on the way. Along with an MPS plate from Forward Control.

I'm hoping that I can throw 2-300 rounds through it without having my thumb/knuckle bruised, or a blister on my trigger finger from the trigger dingus, or all the other random hotspots that crop up when I try to work out a Glock.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Just purchased one...I have some P99 mag pouches that'll finally get used again, a holster from Tenicor on order, and some more mags on the way. Along with an MPS plate from Forward Control.

I'm hoping that I can throw 2-300 rounds through it without having my thumb/knuckle bruised, or a blister on my trigger finger from the trigger dingus, or all the other random hotspots that crop up when I try to work out a Glock.

It's been said Gaston Glock was an ergonomic genius.... err, wait. Let me think about that, maybe that has never been said before???

[YVK]

I put normal sights on it, meaning RM07, and did some shooting today. The gun wants to go fast. At 7 yards / A zone it was faster than both G26 and G19, and pretty much as fast as my Shadow 2 albeit with a wider spread.
At 50 feet I could understand its behavior better. G19 cycles slower and flips a bit less, overall presenting a more sedate sight pic.
PDP-F goes faster and probably higher, comes back fast and is capable of higher performance. However this pattern of cycling often times induces shooter to push back harder and push the gun down. You need to understand this pattern of cycling and get used to it. I got better times with PDP but I also missed more.
I couldn't say if PDP is slightly oversprung or ir was me, considering a dual spring on a 3.5 gun. I think it was me, the gun is too small for my hands.
Now curious how 4 inch PDP cycles.

Personally I dig fast guns and prefer them over soft guns but I don't know if this cycling pattern is great for beginners or less skilled shooters.

[Spartan1980]

I'm going to pick up a new carry gun and jump into optics finally. About sold on a PDP of some iteration vs a M&P 2.0 Compact which is also in the running, but how does the PCP trigger stack up to a VP9? I have an older one VP9 and it's pretty solid.

[Evil_Ed]

Not sure how it stacks up against a VP9 but I've seen way too many videos of people booping the bottom of a VP9 and having the striker drop/dead trigger, for me to have considered a VP9 as a carry/defensive use gun. There was a video posted not even a month ago, new made gun, same problem. I'm trying to find it to post a link here but can't track it down...it was a CB (I think? Maybe it was a CC? I really wish I could find the video) datecoded gun and it was just a smack or two with a gunsmith/non-marring hammer to the butt, and you could hear the click of the striker drop, and dead trigger after that. No imprints on the primer as the striker block was still in effect (so it was "safe"), but a dead trigger on a loaded carry gun...no bueno.

This is driving me nuts; I can't recall if I saw the video here, or arfcom, or hkpro. Probably not hkpro...whomever posted it would have been banned. :rolleyes:

Edit - found it! It was here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13201-VP9-updates&p=1370899&viewfull=1#post1370899) in the VP9 thread - my apologies on the datecode, I was apparently conflating another dumb HK problem video with this one :o

[LockedBreech]

For what it's worth I owned a VP9 for about a year and a half. This was a few years ago so it was the 15-round magazine version without optics cut. Would have been around 2016-2017. I ran it extensively alongside a Gen 4 Glock 19 (which I have since sold to get a Gen 5 Glock 19). I ended up choosing the Glock.

There was a lot about the VP9 I liked. It was HK, so build quality and ergonomics were great. I loved the little "bunny ears" on the rear slide serrations that help you get a grip. Sights were solid. Trigger was excellent. I never had reliability problems.

For the con list...the trigger, again. Yes, the trigger was excellent, but on my sample it was a little too excellent. In extensive snap-cap dry firing side by side with the G19 I found the G19's break significantly more predictable. It also required, for lack of a better word, intention. It was not just lightness, the Glock trigger we all know and either love or hate, whatever else you can say about it, you know when you're at that wall and you know how to break through it. With the VP9 I often found I had reached the break point without knowing it and it required very little pressure to fire from that point. Excellent for a target pistol, but I carried my G19 for serious purposes, and I trusted it more to have a trigger that allowed for nervousness/adrenaline. It wasn't light - a 1911's trigger pull is light but the break is clear - it was hard to predict. I didn't like that.

It was later that I found out bapping the slide can deadline the striker. I was never concerned about the gun going off but for a serious gun having a dead trigger and not knowing about it could be just as lethal.

It's a shame. I love HK, the P30 and HK45 are all-time-great designs, but I just couldn't get myself there with the VP9. Beautiful, fun, fast gun, but it made me have questions in the worst places for a life-saving tool.

[Spartan1980]

For what it's worth I owned a VP9 for about a year and a half. This was a few years ago so it was the 15-round magazine version without optics cut. Would have been around 2016-2017. I ran it extensively alongside a Gen 4 Glock 19 (which I have since sold to get a Gen 5 Glock 19). I ended up choosing the Glock.

There was a lot about the VP9 I liked. It was HK, so build quality and ergonomics were great. I loved the little "bunny ears" on the rear slide serrations that help you get a grip. Sights were solid. Trigger was excellent. I never had reliability problems.

For the con list...the trigger, again. Yes, the trigger was excellent, but on my sample it was a little too excellent. In extensive snap-cap dry firing side by side with the G19 I found the G19's break significantly more predictable. It also required, for lack of a better word, intention. It was not just lightness, the Glock trigger we all know and either love or hate, whatever else you can say about it, you know when you're at that wall and you know how to break through it. With the VP9 I often found I had reached the break point without knowing it and it required very little pressure to fire from that point. Excellent for a target pistol, but I carried my G19 for serious purposes, and I trusted it more to have a trigger that allowed for nervousness/adrenaline. It wasn't light - a 1911's trigger pull is light but the break is clear - it was hard to predict. I didn't like that.

It was later that I found out bapping the slide can deadline the striker. I was never concerned about the gun going off but for a serious gun having a dead trigger and not knowing about it could be just as lethal.

It's a shame. I love HK, the P30 and HK45 are all-time-great designs, but I just couldn't get myself there with the VP9. Beautiful, fun, fast gun, but it made me have questions in the worst places for a life-saving tool.

Well this is the 2nd post about deadlining the VP9 trigger so it knocks the VP9 out of contention.

A little more on my thought process. I've primarily carried a 1.0 Shield for well over 5 years as my primary carry gun in a Keeper Errand holster. It's been a great combination but the gun is "dated" and so are my eyes, hence the move to RDS.

So I need a new blaster right? I grabbed the M&P FS also in a Keeper AIWB holster the other day and it was just so much more comfortable to wear all day. It seems the easy button would be the new Performance Center Shield Plus. It has the thinness and shorter grip frame I need for concealment and is available in a 4" barrel. But like I told an acquaintance when he asked why I wanted a longer barrel, "it's all about comfort of carry and if I could slap a 9Pro upper on a Shield frame I'd do it". Then I priced that Shield Plus with all the bells and whistles and thought why spend that kind of money a polymer framed pistol that's not an HK? (I'd do it for an HK that checks all my boxes)

That got me to looking at alternatives like a LTT 92, Sig, HK, etc. That's where I'm at now. I'm not married to any particular FCS. It could be TDA, SAO or striker. I have enough DA revolver shooting behind me that I don't fear the DA shot. I'm just trying to find the right gun and I'll stick to it. This Walther looks like it has real potential with it's modularity, I can't imagine they won't be selling upper components as stand alone offerings in the future.

As to Glock, I've tried but I just can't bring myself to like the ergos and triggers on them. I own a few but they are strictly for GSSF matches. It's a "me thing" not anything against Glock.

[LockedBreech]

I really like the Smith M&P 2.0s, I think more than the average bear.

The 9mms won't give you Glock Gen 5 accuracy (though relatively few poly pistols will, the Gen 5s are super straight shooters in my experience), but I have M2.0s in 9mm, .40, and .45, and the one thing they've never done is fail to run. I think the triggers are very workable too, I don't even bother with Apex stuff, especially the new flat-faced, wider trigger but I like the old one too.

My .45 M&P 2.0 4.6" is 99% as accurate as my old Sig P220R was, or at least as close to that for me not to be able to tell the difference.

I haven't tried the PDP, but I've had a PPS and a P99 and they were both superbly built and great shooters. I think it's worth a shot.

[Evil_Ed]

I really like the Smith M&P 2.0s, I think more than the average bear.

The 9mms won't give you Glock Gen 5 accuracy (though relatively few poly pistols will, the Gen 5s are super straight shooters in my experience), but I have M2.0s in 9mm, .40, and .45, and the one thing they've never done is fail to run. I think the triggers are very workable too, I don't even bother with Apex stuff, especially the new flat-faced, wider trigger but I like the old one too.

My .45 M&P 2.0 4.6" is 99% as accurate as my old Sig P220R was, or at least as close to that for me not to be able to tell the difference.

I haven't tried the PDP, but I've had a PPS and a P99 and they were both superbly built and great shooters. I think it's worth a shot.

I've followed the various M&P threads here for years, and the 9mm accuracy issues gave me pause - I had a 9mm full size at one time because they didn't make a compact (only subcompact), and a 45 as well - the 45 M&P came with the thumb safety which I liked right up until the first time I carried it; it felt like my cover garment(s) were swiping the thumb safety off for me when I walked, or got in the car, or whatever. Which in the scheme of things isn't a big deal...well, it isn't, right up until it is, but anyway. At that time carrying one of them skeeved me out a little without a thumb safety (it was why I moved the early 9mm in the first place; the articulated trigger didn't seem "right" to me), and with the 45's thumb safety coming off with a stiff breeze...moved that on too. As time went by, then the 2.0 came out and I really, really liked that (I had a Shield 45 with the new grip texture before they rolled it out to the 2.0s; I sold the Shield because while it was basically a better Detonics Combatmaster, I didn't really have a need for it anymore)...but, then, more accuracy issues seemed to (inconsistently) show up from posts on here. Don't get me wrong, I think they're good guns, especially the latest revisions of them, but...when I print a softball size group at 10 yards, I want it to be because I was the one who messed it up; not a mechanical issue, you know? Between that and all of the little dumb things that Smith did or that seemed to happen with them...I won't say I've lost confidence in Smith as far as making good guns go, but it does feel like they go cheap in the wrong places when they don't need to, you know? But, maybe that's just me; what do I know; I'm not an industry expert.

Re the part in bold - that's one of the precise reasons I picked up a PDP. I still carry and shoot the PPS on occasion (replaced the sights with a set of XS F8 sights and while I wouldn't want to take a 25 yard shot with it, it's really fast for me at 10 yards), and my P99 is still my James Bond gun - I sort of want a Gen 1, but my later generation one fits the niche just fine. If Walther ever made a P99-PDP cross with the decocker on the rear of the slide on a button (like a HK P30), DA/SA, optic ready, lever mag release but with the frame and trigger shoe of a PDP...they'd sell at least 25, maybe 30 of them to us, easy.

My P99s:

91470

Took only 4 months to get the threaded barrel for this one made...I still need to get it to the range and see how it does:
91469

[LockedBreech]

I've followed the various M&P threads here for years....Don't get me wrong, I think they're good guns, especially the latest revisions of them, but...when I print a softball size group at 10 yards, I want it to be because I was the one who messed it up; not a mechanical issue, you know? Between that and all of the little dumb things that Smith did or that seemed to happen with them...I won't say I've lost confidence in Smith as far as making good guns go, but it does feel like they go cheap in the wrong places when they don't need to, you know? But, maybe that's just me; what do I know; I'm not an industry expert.


You know, solid observations there. I really like Smiths, and I trust them, but I've had a few recent eyebrow raises. I bought a qualified purchaser/LE Shield Plus with a badly canted sight (and I mean, could see it from a mile away, a few mm outside of the dovetail, REAL bad) and the customer service was basically like "eh, you can adjust it" without even a "sorry it was messed up" and then I got my recent qualified purchaser/LE SW1911 E-series, which is gorgeous and seems very well made but was packaged with a revolver manual...I admit I've had recent reservations about them as well. I think a lot of my M2.0 loyalty comes from my full-size no-safety 4.6" .45, which is one of the best performing pistols I've owned and tremendously comfortable in my hands, as well as my full-size M&P40 which does marvelously with a difficult cartridge and is also very comfy with a set of the M2.0 .45's more sandpapery grips. To me they are really comfortable and intuitive guns, and they've served on the street long enough to show they're also tough and reliable. Those are great traits, and they can make me a bit blind to their drawbacks.

I've recently become a bit more objective about that. I was very skeptical for a long time of the P320, but waiting a few years for them to work out the kinks got me my M17-B, which is just a rock star so far, the most fun I've had shooting a new gun in a while. Add to that my Gen 5 Glock 17 MOS, Gen 5 Glock 19, and Gen 5 Glock 22 MOS, the 9mm of which is really VERY accurate and the .40 of which finally, finally represents Glock figuring out .40 S&W (with the heavier slide that gun folks have been telling them to use since Gen 3).

In short, I am still very personally and emotionally fond of the M2.0 guns, and I still think they're extremely hard to beat in the $400-450 bracket you can typically find them on sale in. They're certainly a tough, reliable, service-grade pistol in my review of the available data.

The harder sell becomes...okay, I've got $600 to blow, why should I choose the M2.0 over the Gen 5 Glock or the Sig P320? That is, admittedly, a harder argument to make. I still trust Smith's quality control over Sig's civilian side by a hair, but Sig's qualified purchaser/LE guns seem very well quality-controlled. The Gen 5 Glock, emotion taken out of it, is the obvious answer if it fits the shooter's hands.

Walther ends up as an also-ran in these conversations, sort of like Beretta with the APX, not because of any inherent deficiency in the gun, but simply for being too late to the party despite having some really excellent candidates.

FN and the 509...well, FN gets to be a part of the conversation just as soon as they can put out a service handgun for five consecutive years without sidelining in for their next New Hawtness. I can't trust a manufacturer that doesn't trust their product to stand the test of time.

Sorry, this turned into kind of a ramble, I've had a long work day and I enjoy shooting the bull about guns.

In your situation, with prior experience and trust in Walthers and no current buy-in, I think the PDP is one of the best choices you could make. Either way, I hope you find something that checks your boxes. Nice P99s.

[Evil_Ed]

Just purchased one...I have some P99 mag pouches that'll finally get used again, a holster from Tenicor on order, and some more mags on the way. Along with an MPS plate from Forward Control.

I'm hoping that I can throw 2-300 rounds through it without having my thumb/knuckle bruised, or a blister on my trigger finger from the trigger dingus, or all the other random hotspots that crop up when I try to work out a Glock.

Finally got a chance to get it to the range. Mounted a Steiner MPS on it via an FCD plate and headed out. I put 39 rounds of 147 HST, 50 of Fed 147 Syntech (the purple ones), and 158 of Fed American Eagle 147 flatpoints through it with zero issues. In fact that's notable all by itself; not once did I get pinched, gouged, bruised...anything. It was actually comfortable to use for more than a couple of mags. I'm not even sure my most dehorned 1911 is that comfortable...I'm really happy with this thing. My local gun store has a 5" compact in stock, actually...I passed and got a 4" compact, but that 5" looks sufficiently weird that it might come home with me as a backup...

[LockedBreech]

Finally got a chance to get it to the range. Mounted a Steiner MPS on it via an FCD plate and headed out. I put 39 rounds of 147 HST, 50 of Fed 147 Syntech (the purple ones), and 158 of Fed American Eagle 147 flatpoints through it with zero issues. In fact that's notable all by itself; not once did I get pinched, gouged, bruised...anything. It was actually comfortable to use for more than a couple of mags. I'm not even sure my most dehorned 1911 is that comfortable...I'm really happy with this thing. My local gun store has a 5" compact in stock, actually...I passed and got a 4" compact, but that 5" looks sufficiently weird that it might come home with me as a backup...

Awesome start. Thanks for reporting.

[crosseyedshooter]

Walther is now offering direct mount Acro slides for 4” barrel. Seems like the 4.5” would be ideal for duty pistol.

https://waltherarms.com/pdp-4-direct-milled-slide-acro/

[spyderco monkey]

Walther is now offering direct mount Acro slides for 4” barrel. Seems like the 4.5” would be ideal for duty pistol.

https://waltherarms.com/pdp-4-direct-milled-slide-acro/

"This is part of a one time run so restocks are unlikely."

Probably an over run of LEO slides, so get em while they last.

[spyderco monkey]

Does anyone here have a 5" PDP, either full size or the compact w/ 5" slide?

How is the recoil compared to a Glock?

I sold my PPQ because while I loved everything about it, the recoil was .40-ish with 115gr plinking ammo.

[crosseyedshooter]

Does anyone here have a 5" PDP, either full size or the compact w/ 5" slide?

How is the recoil compared to a Glock?

I sold my PPQ because while I loved everything about it, the recoil was .40-ish with 115gr plinking ammo.

It’s not so much recoil as it is muzzle flip. I switch between my PPQ and M&P and the rise of the dot is much more on the PPQ. However, the PPQ tracks faster and comes back on target sooner than the M&P. It basically takes more concentration to shoot the PPQ but it’s faster and more accurate when compared with my M&P. The 5” PDP I tried still behaves similarly to the PPQ except the grip has more traction.

[fly out]

Walther is now offering direct mount Acro slides for 4” barrel. Seems like the 4.5” would be ideal for duty pistol.

https://waltherarms.com/pdp-4-direct-milled-slide-acro/

Can anyone think of a downside to this?

[GJM]

Can anyone think of a downside to this?

Trying to find an Acro P2?

[titsonritz]

Trying to find an Acro P2?



MPS should also work

[titsonritz]

Can anyone think of a downside to this?

Being married to it, downside/upside would be relative.

[GJM]

MPS should also work

Nope. Enough different footprint that CHPWS offers Acro specific plates and MPS specific plates. The MPS has short battery life and either a damn auto shut off or throttled intensity.

[fly out]

Trying to find an Acro P2?

touché

[Bart Carter]

The slides are milled for Trijicon, Deltapoint Pro, 509T and Acro. Many manufacturers cross their models with these standards.

Looks like the mills have locating posts too.

I can see no downside for anyone wanting a red dot on their Walther. This should be a permanent Walther offering.

[crosseyedshooter]

The slides are milled for Trijicon, Deltapoint Pro, 509T and Acro. Many manufacturers cross their models with these standards.

Looks like the mills have locating posts too.

I can see no downside for anyone wanting a red dot on their Walther. This should be a permanent Walther offering.

I'd like to know if the direct mount sits lower than the equivalent adapter plate version. This is probably what everyone assumes, but it'd be nice to have confirmation. I'm also not confident in the longevity of Deltapoint Pro and 509T footprints, so those could be downsides.

[Bart Carter]

I'd like to know if the direct mount sits lower than the equivalent adapter plate version. This is probably what everyone assumes, but it'd be nice to have confirmation. I'm also not confident in the longevity of Deltapoint Pro and 509T footprints, so those could be downsides.

I have not measured any of the offered slides.

The many Walthers I have personally milled have the sights slightly lower. YMMV

A call to Walther may give you that information.

[newyork]

I put normal sights on it, meaning RM07, and did some shooting today. The gun wants to go fast. At 7 yards / A zone it was faster than both G26 and G19, and pretty much as fast as my Shadow 2 albeit with a wider spread.
At 50 feet I could understand its behavior better. G19 cycles slower and flips a bit less, overall presenting a more sedate sight pic.
PDP-F goes faster and probably higher, comes back fast and is capable of higher performance. However this pattern of cycling often times induces shooter to push back harder and push the gun down. You need to understand this pattern of cycling and get used to it. I got better times with PDP but I also missed more.
I couldn't say if PDP is slightly oversprung or ir was me, considering a dual spring on a 3.5 gun. I think it was me, the gun is too small for my hands.
Now curious how 4 inch PDP cycles.

Personally I dig fast guns and prefer them over soft guns but I don't know if this cycling pattern is great for beginners or less skilled shooters.

Is the F model more snappy than the standard? What made you choose the F? Small hands? Make a big enough difference? I’ve been looking at the g19 and g17 sizes. They look good but I haven’t been following close enough.

[YVK]

Is the F model more snappy than the standard? What made you choose the F? Small hands? Make a big enough difference? I’ve been looking at the g19 and g17 sizes. They look good but I haven’t been following close enough.

I don't have and never tried standard PDP so I can't draw the comparisons. I have larger hands myself. I got F because of my interest in reported tech and features, thinking of my wife as a potential user. In addition a number of ladies from work have expressed some interest in shooting so I thought it was a good gun to have.

[newyork]

I have small to medium hands. The F interests me. I imagine it’s somewhere between a g48 and a 19?

[YVK]

I imagine it’s somewhere between a g48 and a 19?

That's fair. I put a larger backstrap and didn't really have much problems with the grip. I did think it had a pretty fast slide so the flip is a bit more than on G19.

[GJM]

That's fair. I put a larger backstrap and didn't really have much problems with the grip. I did think it had a pretty fast slide so the flip is a bit more than on G19.

Is it flip up, or the sensation of force back?

[newyork]

I am hearing if the pdp is out of battery, and the trigger is pulled, it releases the trailer and slide needs to be racked again. Aka ground fight scenario. I may be late to the party.

Is this a thing still? Any other things to know?

[YVK]

Is it flip up, or the sensation of force back?

Flip.

[the_tacticallopath]

I am hearing if the pdp is out of battery, and the trigger is pulled, it releases the trailer and slide needs to be racked again. Aka ground fight scenario. I may be late to the party.

Is this a thing still? Any other things to know?

Yeah, that's intrinsic to the design and not going to go away. There's plenty of discussion of that earlier in this thread or in the P&S Forum.

[theJanitor]

someone on PnS said the version2 has this flaw corrected

[the_tacticallopath]

someone on PnS said the version2 has this flaw corrected

I'm very interested to see how they did that without having to do a total redesign on the trigger mechanism.

[Sasage]

Sportsman Outdoor Superstore has the 4 inch in stock, obviously one day after I purchase a 3.5 cause they were out of stock.

[coN]

Finally was able to get myself a 5" PDP since I didn't like the PPQ 4" muzzle flip. Although it still has a little flip to it, it seems to track and get back on target much faster than my M&Ps/Glocks. Placebo maybe?

Also, these are at 15 yards with 115 WWB because this uses a combat hold. I hate not being able to see what im shooting at since i have to completely cover up the target. Dawson to the rescue.

https://i.ibb.co/Y72VDqN/PDP20221116-152449-picsay.jpg (https://ibb.co/Y72VDqN)

[Sasage]

I put normal sights on it, meaning RM07, and did some shooting today. The gun wants to go fast. At 7 yards / A zone it was faster than both G26 and G19, and pretty much as fast as my Shadow 2 albeit with a wider spread.
At 50 feet I could understand its behavior better. G19 cycles slower and flips a bit less, overall presenting a more sedate sight pic.
PDP-F goes faster and probably higher, comes back fast and is capable of higher performance. However this pattern of cycling often times induces shooter to push back harder and push the gun down. You need to understand this pattern of cycling and get used to it. I got better times with PDP but I also missed more.
I couldn't say if PDP is slightly oversprung or ir was me, considering a dual spring on a 3.5 gun. I think it was me, the gun is too small for my hands.
Now curious how 4 inch PDP cycles.

Personally I dig fast guns and prefer them over soft guns but I don't know if this cycling pattern is great for beginners or less skilled shooters.

Did you have a chance to shoot the 4" yet?

Recently picked up a 3.5" but havent been able to get to the range yet.

[YVK]

Did you have a chance to shoot the 4" yet?

Recently picked up a 3.5" but havent been able to get to the range yet.

No, I haven't. This Walther thing is on a back burner for me.

[Jason M]

Is it flip up, or the sensation of force back?

Late reply but I just purchased a 4" compact. There is more a sensation of back as compared to flip up. It's similar to the sensation of firing 124+p gold dot in a G19 or hotter ammo in the old P7 M8/13. I'm not sure how else to describe it. Sight tracking is not a problem as the sight blade moves vertically. I have not shot a PDP with an RDS.

[Magsz]

Hey guys,

I know that this is going to be really subjective but i'm shopping for a new pistol for my wife. She's currently shooting an X5 Legion and absolutely loves it. In light of some of the law suits that are going on, i've decided that I am going to have a knee jerk reaction and sell this in order to replace it with something else.

The PDP is on the list. I only have experience with the 4 inch slide and compact frame. I thought this configuration with standard 115 grain ball was a really snappy combination.

I am curious as to which gun would have the softest recoil impulse of the bunch? I am going to stick to the full size frames but i'm wondering between the 4, 4.5 and 5 inch guns which one will recoil and hit the hand the softest? As is the case with Glocks, it's naturally the G19, G17 and then G34 from harshest to softest. I am wondering if the PDP follows that same trend? I mean, most pistols follow this trend but I wanted to get some opinions from people I trust here before I purchase something.

Thanks guys!

[Lon]

Hey guys,

I know that this is going to be really subjective but i'm shopping for a new pistol for my wife. She's currently shooting an X5 Legion and absolutely loves it. In light of some of the law suits that are going on, i've decided that I am going to have a knee jerk reaction and sell this in order to replace it with something else.

The PDP is on the list. I only have experience with the 4 inch slide and compact frame. I thought this configuration with standard 115 grain ball was a really snappy combination.

I am curious as to which gun would have the softest recoil impulse of the bunch? I am going to stick to the full size frames but i'm wondering between the 4, 4.5 and 5 inch guns which one will recoil and hit the hand the softest? As is the case with Glocks, it's naturally the G19, G17 and then G34 from harshest to softest. I am wondering if the PDP follows that same trend? I mean, most pistols follow this trend but I wanted to get some opinions from people I trust here before I purchase something.

Thanks guys!

Have her check out the PDP F series. https://waltherarms.com/pdp-f-series-3-5

[Bryan W]

Looking for advice. I have been a dedicated Glock (IDPA, classes etc) shooter for probably 15 years. The PDP compact interests me. Looking for opinions from those who have shot/own both.
-Shoot ability of the pdp compared to glock.
-conceal-ability of the pdp ( I carry appendix) Except shooting IDPA
-practical accuracy with range vs self defense ammo
- any long term issues


Thanks for the assist
Steve

Late to the thread here but I have about year now on the PDP. I own four of them now. I have carried and shot Glocks exclusively since the late 80s to include LE duty and USPSA. There is an improvement in shooting performance with the PDP now doubt. This isn't a feeling but measured out via the timer and target. I think Stoeger dropped a pretty good video about these guns a few weeks back. The guns do feel like the recoil more than a glock, but they track exceptionally well and can stack rounds on target. Thats been my experience. They point well and have great grip ergos. Will they last? I'm not sure but Im running the hell out of mine now. I will say this, I have already broke a striker on my 5" gun, which is a bit concerning. It almost reminds me of the first gen M&Ps. That being said, I also broke a striker on a gen 5 glock 17 this year too. Walther customer service was excellent and I have a new one replaced. I am carrying the PDPs now and plan to continue running them and this is coming from someone who owns over 20 Glocks.

[Bryan W]

I’ve now shot all of the PDP pistol series variants twice as part of Walther-sponsored events (The Walther factory is local to me) and most recently I got to shoot the F series once. First impressions of the F series in the hands is phenomenal. I definitely prefer the smaller grip and the ergos over the standard PDP which is still better than average. I think where it falls short and where the PDP falls short is in felt/perceived recoil. I know people will say it’s subjective and it is but I own and shoot many many different pistols and the recoil impulse is extremely unpleasant and harsh for a 9mm chambering. Quick follow-up/double-tap shots from 15 yard were impossible to keep on paper at 15 yards. I was shooting with four other law enforcement shooters and they all concurred. My agency currently issues the Glock 45 which I dislike but at least the 9mm Glock is pleasant to shoot. All of the PDP guns including the F series felt like a stout .40s/w or a Glock 31 in .357 Sig. If Walther plans to take a bite out of the LE market they will have to address this issue otherwise getting agencies to make the switch isn’t gonna happen (plus the cost difference). I really want to like the PDP series and especially the F series but it’s a hard pass for me. I also don’t understand the marketing of the F-Series so strongly towards women but that’s a different topic for a different discussion.

I suspect the harsh recoil stems from the weight of the recoil spring system and perhaps the tight design of the chamber from what the LE sales rep had to say, but that’s just a guess.

The heavier recoil spring without doubt adds to that and I think you're experience with the felt recoil is very common. It is a real thing to me. I would take issue with your comment that quick follow up shots at 15 were near impossible. I dont want to be rude here man, but that is absurd. The PDP actually shines when it is shot fast. There are number of vids out there on the interwebs to prove this, but just as a point of reference.... Point 1 tactics has an elite pistol standard where his 15 yard string is 5 rounds in under 2.50. I have hit this several times with my 4", 4.5" and 5" PDPs. I am carrying this gun now because of its performance under speed and not how it feels shooting slow fire. Again, not wanting to come off harsh, and I aplogogize if I did, but bro... grip the gun more better lol.

[Magsz]

Have her check out the PDP F series. https://waltherarms.com/pdp-f-series-3-5

Grip size is not an issue for her. The 320 Legion grip is not exactly small.

Does the F series of pistols have any recoil reducing mechanism or design that isn't a gimmick?

[Bryan W]

Disregard feel and look at the timer -- snappier and also faster to return.

exactly... Feelings don't matter... What matters is objective performance. As a side note, the IPSC world shoot was just won with a PDP in carry optics.

[Bryan W]

Since Walther is kindly providing options, what seems to be the preferred slide length for a CO gamer gun?

5" has a great balance but the difference in shooting performance between the 5" and 4.5" is not really measurable. I don't think you could go wrong with either for a CO gun.

[Bryan W]

Does anyone here have a 5" PDP, either full size or the compact w/ 5" slide?

How is the recoil compared to a Glock?

I sold my PPQ because while I loved everything about it, the recoil was .40-ish with 115gr plinking ammo.

Yes, I have a 5'" PDP that im running with a SRO. I did replace the factory recoil spring with a KR tactical guiderod and ISMI 15LB spring. All else stock. Shoots great and again, all this talk about heavier recoil compared to other guns is probably a thing, although i find these guns crazy fast and they stack rounds for me. Whats the standard that you're looking for? Sub 2 Bills at 7? Yes, it does that.... sub 3.5 at 25 yards? Yes, it does that too. I mean these guns shoot.

[Bryan W]

Yes, I have a 5'" PDP that im running with a SRO. I did replace the factory recoil spring with a KR tactical guiderod and ISMI 15LB spring. All else stock. Shoots great and again, all this talk about heavier recoil compared to other guns is probably a thing, although i find these guns crazy fast and they stack rounds for me. Whats the standard that you're looking for? Sub 2 Bills at 7? Yes, it does that.... sub 3.5 at 25 yards? Yes, it does that too. I mean these guns shoot.

Sorry, your question was how does it compare to a glock. The glock is softer. Softer in this case doesn't equate to higher shooting performance. What i mean by this is that a Glock just requires you to work harder to shoot well. And Glock's do shoot very well... The PDP just turns in better rep runs for me.

[spyderco monkey]

Yes, I have a 5'" PDP that im running with a SRO. I did replace the factory recoil spring with a KR tactical guiderod and ISMI 15LB spring. All else stock. Shoots great and again, all this talk about heavier recoil compared to other guns is probably a thing, although i find these guns crazy fast and they stack rounds for me. Whats the standard that you're looking for? Sub 2 Bills at 7? Yes, it does that.... sub 3.5 at 25 yards? Yes, it does that too. I mean these guns shoot.

Ah damn, just as I had forgotten about lusting over the PDP, you post this and have me interested in one all over again.

Great info, thanks.

[Archer1440]

I won’t buy one of these for reasons. But, it absolutely performs well at speed and is absolutely a tackdriver.

[Lon]

Grip size is not an issue for her. The 320 Legion grip is not exactly small.

Does the F series of pistols have any recoil reducing mechanism or design that isn't a gimmick?

Supposed to be easier to manipulate the slide. I’ve only got my hands on one for about 10 seconds, so I can’t really give a whole lot more info or an opinion.

98690

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Supposed to be easier to manipulate the slide. I’ve only got my hands on one for about 10 seconds, so I can’t really give a whole lot more info or an opinion.

98690

That really has no effect on recoil, which is what he was asking. It merely helps weaker handed folks operate the slide for manipulations.

[scottyjr07]

Just wanted to share my experience as well. I've been a DA/SA guy for the last 5 yers. CZ P07/09s and recently a Tanfo Limited Pro.

I picked up a PDP compact from Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore with the tungsten cerakoted slide.

I've got about 600-700 rounds through it and it has replaced my P07 for AIWB. The Phlster Pro is also the best AIWB I've had thus far.

The trigger is really nice. The hard wall has taken some getting used to. I'm fond of a rolling break in a trigger. It's been reliable and the awesome return to zero is a real thing despite the gun having a little more flip.

I have a ZR guide rod on the way and a 15lb ISMI spring waiting when it gets here.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221220/82b4765367b0cba6f5a49cf2b8c165b3.jpg

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[45dotACP]

Yes, I have a 5'" PDP that im running with a SRO. I did replace the factory recoil spring with a KR tactical guiderod and ISMI 15LB spring. All else stock. Shoots great and again, all this talk about heavier recoil compared to other guns is probably a thing, although i find these guns crazy fast and they stack rounds for me. Whats the standard that you're looking for? Sub 2 Bills at 7? Yes, it does that.... sub 3.5 at 25 yards? Yes, it does that too. I mean these guns shoot.I would hope so. The trigger on those things is what, 4lbs stock? That's good on a 1911, no less a plastic gun.

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[Bryan W]

I would hope so. The trigger on those things is what, 4lbs stock? That's good on a 1911, no less a plastic gun.

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I haven't measured it but I'd guess a tad over 4 but yeah they are already light enough for my taste.

[Magsz]

Supposed to be easier to manipulate the slide. I’ve only got my hands on one for about 10 seconds, so I can’t really give a whole lot more info or an opinion.

98690

10-4. She has no issues with a 17-18 lb recoil spring in any factory polymer gun.

Still curious about the recoil impulses between the different slide lengths if anyone wants to chime in!

Also, have people found that replacing the factory recoil spring with a 15 lb spring, relieves some of the snappiness?

[Bryan W]

10-4. She has no issues with a 17-18 lb recoil spring in any factory polymer gun.

Still curious about the recoil impulses between the different slide lengths if anyone wants to chime in!

Also, have people found that replacing the factory recoil spring with a 15 lb spring, relieves some of the snappiness?

I'll chime in... i have the 4", 4.5" and 5" full size guns. I like the balance of the 5" gun better but find i am running some of my best runs with the 4.5". The 4" to me is the most snappy in recoil but not enough to matter really. I am also running the 15lb spring in 2 of my guns and honestly i cannot tell a huge difference at speed. i am not super sensitive to recoil and only really care about how the gun tracks. I honestly don't think you can go wrong with any of the variations. i do find myself shooting the 4.5" more than the others. In fact, i just shot it for my retired LE quals this week. I am running a holosun 509T on my 4.5 guns, and SROs on my 4" and 5" guns. I'd carry any of these and not worry about it. They point naturally and return to POA like a boss. That my .02

[breakingtime91]

think the 3.5 or 4 inch has an easier slide to rack?

[scottyjr07]

10-4. She has no issues with a 17-18 lb recoil spring in any factory polymer gun.

Still curious about the recoil impulses between the different slide lengths if anyone wants to chime in!

Also, have people found that replacing the factory recoil spring with a 15 lb spring, relieves some of the snappiness?

I just installed a ZR Tactical guide rod and ISMI G17 15lb recoil spring in my 4" compact. I can say with confidence, that the gun feel/runs much better. Comparing some slow motion video with doubles, the gun has less bounce on return and just feels more pleasant. Your results may vary. 200 rounds down with no malfunctions. I'll update if that changes.

[Snidely Whiplash]

I’m somewhat surprised that this topic has kinda fizzled out. I’ve spent the last couple of days investigating the Walther PDP as a possible CCW and trying to sift through the (YouTube reviewers) hype. This topic has provided some really solid information.

I trust the members here for unbiased advice and suggestions; Is the PDP a legitimate contender against a Glock for a CCW handgun or has it not lived up to expectations?

[Tensaw]

I’m somewhat surprised that this topic has kinda fizzled out. I’ve spent the last couple of days investigating the Walther PDP as a possible CCW and trying to sift through the (YouTube reviewers) hype. This topic has provided some really solid information.

I trust the members here for unbiased advice and suggestions; Is the PDP a legitimate contender against a Glock for a CCW handgun or has it not lived up to expectations?

I'm digging mine. After 20 years of stockish Glock triggers though, I would not mind if the pre-travel was a wee bit longer and the wall a wee bit stronger. The trigger is great for chutin' - probably not optimal for threat management.

[ldunnmobile]

I’m running 15 lb spring on my 4.5 slide. I like it better over the stock spring.

Consistently dinging steel at 150 yards with mine this last weekend, to the surprise of my shooting buddies.

[GJM]

I'm digging mine. After 20 years of stockish Glock triggers though, I would not mind if the pre-travel was a wee bit longer and the wall a wee bit stronger. The trigger is great for chutin' - probably not optimal for threat management.

I am too lazy to go open a safe, but isn't the pre travel on a PPQ/PDP longer than on a stock Glock?

[Tensaw]

I am too lazy to go open a safe, but isn't the pre travel on a PPQ/PDP longer than on a stock Glock?

It *may* be (I will check that out later today). I guess it is the much lighter weight during pre-travel as compared to the Glock may be what makes me wish the pre-travel was just a little longer on the PDP. I feel like I just breeze through the pre-travel as soon as I get on the trigger and then find myself at the wall, which is easy to break right on through.

Ironicably, I got the PDP mostly for the "better" trigger, and it is an easier trigger for me to shoot as compared to a Glock, but I find myself being a bit more deliberate on the draw and re-holstering.

[GJM]

https://youtu.be/XE0HMLgAmcU

[Tensaw]

I am too lazy to go open a safe, but isn't the pre travel on a PPQ/PDP longer than on a stock Glock?

I checked. I believe you are correct in saying the PDP pre-travel is longer than a Glock. I could still stand it to be just a hair bit longer with a slightly heavier wall - for purposes of CCW.

[GJM]

I checked. I believe you are correct in saying the PDP pre-travel is longer than a Glock. I could still stand it to be just a hair bit longer with a slightly heavier wall - for purposes of CCW.

Three letter solution ..... LEM!

[GJM]

Not sure why, but I dug a 4.5 PDP out, mounted a SRO, zeroed it and then shot some drills today along with a Gen 4 17 I used to shoot CO with.

Dimensionally these pistols are very close, but they have very different personalities. The 17 is much softer shooting, where the PDP is abrupt but returns fast. Interestingly, I went from the PDP to shooting the FN 10mm, and they weren't all that much different. Where the PDP shined compared to the Glock, is how easy it is to shoot straight with the PDP.

My wife set up a drill where we were drawing and shooting a skunk (USPSA A zone with black hard cover on both sides) predictively and then transitioning to a single eight inch steel. As we pushed distance, the PDP would lay the rounds into the A zone as fast as you could pull the trigger. The PDP is also very easy to find the dot with shooting just one handed.

[Risto]

I think I may have to try one of these…


Anybody put some decent time in with the f-series yet?—thoughts/experiences?

[crosseyedshooter]

...Where the PDP shined compared to the Glock, is how easy it is to shoot straight with the PDP.

My wife set up a drill where we were drawing and shooting a skunk (USPSA A zone with black hard cover on both sides) predictively and then transitioning to a single eight inch steel. As we pushed distance, the PDP would lay the rounds into the A zone as fast as you could pull the trigger. The PDP is also very easy to find the dot with shooting just one handed.

This has also been my experience with the PDP and PPQ. Unfortunately, everyone mentions the "snappiness" of the Walthers but very few comment on the vertical tracking and fast return to point of aim. The PPQ and PDP are like sports cars; higher performance but more effort to drive. I'm much more relaxed (lazy) shooting my M&Ps but I see faster and more accurate results with my PPQs.

[Kyle Reese]

Grabbed a 5” PDP and am grabbing a 4.5” SD PRO this week via the IOP. Awaiting the Holosun 507 Competition optic to drop also- otherwise these two will get P2s.


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[GJM]

Grabbed a 5” PDP and am grabbing a 4.5” SD PRO this week via the IOP. Awaiting the Holosun 507 Competition optic to drop also- otherwise these two will get P2s.


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I recently got the 4 inch Pro, and have a number of other PDP pistols that I got a few years ago.

I will be very interested in what you think of the 5 inch. I really like the PDP pistols. However, I have been shooting the compact and 4.5 against Glock 19 and 17 pistols, and the timer and hits says I shoot the Glock pistols better. Kind of surprising as the Walther pistols point great for me and have excellent triggers.

[backtrail540]

I recently got the 4 inch Pro, and have a number of other PDP pistols that I got a few years ago.

I will be very interested in what you think of the 5 inch. I really like the PDP pistols. However, I have been shooting the compact and 4.5 against Glock 19 and 17 pistols, and the timer and hits says I shoot the Glock pistols better. Kind of surprising as the Walther pistols point great for me and have excellent triggers.

Recency bias? Or is it a substantial difference?

I was able to avoid getting one in the initial wave but a recent trip to the local gun stores left me wanting one after handling several.

[GJM]

Recency bias? Or is it a substantial difference?

I was able to avoid getting one in the initial wave but a recent trip to the local gun stores left me wanting one after handling several.

In the last few weeks, I have shot a PDP more than a Glock. That would give recency to the PDP except that I have decades with a Glock. :p

Two things on the Glock, it has the Performance trigger where the PDP has the OEM trigger (Walther Dynamic is in a 4 inch Pro), and since I started putting my support index finger on the trigger guard, it has really minimized side to side deviations with the Glock. Also, I was shooting Lawman 124, and the Glock plain shoots softer than the PDP.

The Walther seems well made and they really improved the optic mounting system with the gen 2 pistols. I should put the Walther Dynamic trigger in a full size and so some more shooting. Also curious if the five inch is softer shooting than the 4/4.5 PDP models.

Finally, the difference was enough between Glock and PDP to get my attention.

[Coal Train]

and since I started putting my support index finger on the trigger guard, it has really minimized side to side deviations with the Glock.
Can you please explain a bit more?

Like 1980’s index finger on the front of the trigger guard?

[GJM]

Can you please explain a bit more?

Like 1980’s index finger on the front of the trigger guard?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?56457-Support-index-finger-on-trigger-guard

[Archer1440]

Quite a few PDP’s appeared in local USPSA CO circles toward the end of 2021 around me, but as 2022 progressed, the PDP started to disappear.

I haven’t seen one since last fall, a couple of the users went back to their older Walthers. We push around 90 shooters through two matches each per month in the winter, so not a huge data point, but there it is.

[Kyle Reese]

I recently got the 4 inch Pro, and have a number of other PDP pistols that I got a few years ago.

I will be very interested in what you think of the 5 inch. I really like the PDP pistols. However, I have been shooting the compact and 4.5 against Glock 19 and 17 pistols, and the timer and hits says I shoot the Glock pistols better. Kind of surprising as the Walther pistols point great for me and have excellent triggers.

I’ve ordered the ZR Tactical Solutions captive steel guide rod with 15 pound recoil spring. I’ve found that Walther P99/PPQ/PDPs all come oversprung from the factory.

It is my hope that the 15# recoil spring (in conjunction with my gorilla strength grip) helps the gun to track flatter during recoil.

I will update as I get some range time and data on the pistol.


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[crosseyedshooter]

I’ve found that Walther P99/PPQ/PDPs all come oversprung from the factory.

From the P99 until now, I think they’ve kept the 50N recoil spring. It was probably designed for the NATO 124gr load and not necessary for typical American 9mm. For some reason, they discontinued their 48N red spring which I found was a small, but noticeable, difference.

I’ve had issues with return to battery on P99 and PPQ using lighter spring weights. Just something to keep an eye on.

[GJM]

Has anyone done a side by side between 4.5 and 5.0 PDP pistols with a dot?

[Tensaw]

I’ve ordered the ZR Tactical Solutions captive steel guide rod with 15 pound recoil spring. I’ve found that Walther P99/PPQ/PDPs all come oversprung from the factory.

It is my hope that the 15# recoil spring (in conjunction with my gorilla strength grip) helps the gun to track flatter during recoil.

I will update as I get some range time and data on the pistol.
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Looking forward to your findings. Been eyeballing the ZRTS set-up, but have been dragging my feet on it.

[GJM]

I did some comparison shooting today with a PDP 4.5 with an SRO and a Glock 47 with an SRO. Probably as close in configuration as could be. I still preferred the Glock, and was 5-10 percent faster with the Glock shooting small steel arrays.

As to why, I am not sure. The PDP points more naturally and has a more traditionally nice trigger feel. The Glock feels much softer shooting. I know bore access in itself is not definitive, but with two very similar pistols, the PDP feels like it is much higher in your hands than the Glock.

[JHC]

As to why, I am not sure. The PDP points more naturally and has a more traditionally nice trigger feel. The Glock feels much softer shooting. I know bore access in itself is not definitive, but with two very similar pistols, the PDP feels like it is much higher in your hands than the Glock.

It's that camming the wrists forward with the Glock that Surf demo'd in his old vids! Power-cam.

[M2CattleCo]

I did some comparison shooting today with a PDP 4.5 with an SRO and a Glock 47 with an SRO. Probably as close in configuration as could be. I still preferred the Glock, and was 5-10 percent faster with the Glock shooting small steel arrays.

As to why, I am not sure. The PDP points more naturally and has a more traditionally nice trigger feel. The Glock feels much softer shooting. I know bore access in itself is not definitive, but with two very similar pistols, the PDP feels like it is much higher in your hands than the Glock.

The PDP was my first stop when I abandoned Glock. I thought I would love it, but it was actually worse than the PPQ that I thought I would love [and didn’t] ten years ago. Walther really outdid themselves making 9mm kick like a 40.

[Brianjkeene]

The PDP was my first stop when I abandoned Glock. I thought I would love it, but it was actually worse than the PPQ that I thought I would love [and didn’t] ten years ago. Walther really outdid themselves making 9mm kick like a 40.


My answer to that has been a Nomad frame and a GPT

[GJM]

I just ordered a PMM comp and plan to install it on my four inch slide Pro model. Seems like the PDP may benefit from a comp.

https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/product/pmm-walther-pdp-jttc/

[M2CattleCo]

My answer to that has been a Nomad frame and a GPT


I have never tried an aftermarket frame.

I finally had to come to terms with not being able to overcome my trigger finger pushing the frame of a Glock when I pulled the trigger. Just makes for a hard time staying proficient. Add to it all the trigger problems I’ve had with them and I decided we would both be better off seeing someone else.

[ldunnmobile]

I just ordered a PMM comp and plan to install it on my four inch slide Pro model. Seems like the PDP may benefit from a comp.

https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/product/pmm-walther-pdp-jttc/

Really interested in how this goes.

[RDT806]

I had so much hope for this gun. Walther is a great company and I hated the PPQ. This one seemed perfect on paper. Then I shot it. Hard no for me. But it seems some people really love it. Preferences I guess.

[GJM]

I had so much hope for this gun. Walther is a great company and I hated the PPQ. This one seemed perfect on paper. Then I shot it. Hard no for me. But it seems some people really love it. Preferences I guess.

Why didn't you like it?

[RDT806]

Why didn't you like it?

Thats a good question. Its kinda hard to say. It just feels like a very hollow feeling lower with a very top heavy slide on it. I do love the texture and the trigger is really great. I shot a compact and it felt very snappy to me. Completely shootable. But just not a very flat gun. Obviously more time would probably mitigate that. I can totally see why people like them.

[GJM]

I got to shoot my PDP Pro with the PMM compensator installed. Shot well, no reliability issues, although I only shot Lawman 124 with it.

After shooting it some, my sense was that the PDP with a comp feels about like a Glock 19 without a comp.

103819

[revchuck38]

I got to shoot my PDP Pro with the PMM compensator installed. Shot well, no reliability issues, although I only shot Lawman 124 with it.

After shooting it some, my sense was that the PDP with a comp feels about like a Glock 19 without a comp.


Dang, talk about damning with faint praise! :rolleyes:

[Lon]

Got to fingerbang AsianJedi ‘s PDP-F yesterday. NICE. It’s got the Lucky 7s.

103827

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrTOu8Nrwsk/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[backtrail540]

Got to fingerbang AsianJedi ‘s PDP-F yesterday. NICE. It’s got the Lucky 7s.

103827

https://www.instagram.com/p/CrTOu8Nrwsk/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Is the F significantly smaller than a standard compact or just thinned out a bit? More pointedly, is it as stark as a 19-48?

[Noah]

Is the F significantly smaller than a standard compact or just thinned out a bit? More pointedly, is it as stark as a 19-48?

It's still a full width double stack.

[GJM]

I have a F, and I regret getting it. To make the lower (and slide force) girl friendly, they did some weird stuff that makes it a mongrel. For example, the Walther Performance trigger isn't compatible. When you dry fire, with the different striker design, the trigger won't reset unless you pull the slide ALL the way to the rear. To me, it isn't enough smaller than a PDP Compact to justify the differences.

[DaBigBR]

Dang, talk about damning with faint praise! :rolleyes:

Ain't that the truth. I've been contemplating either a PDP Pro with comp or an MSP spec build from Monsoon and this review really sinks the Pro for me. I had a 5" PDP for a short time and just found it more abrupt than I like. I considered a brass backstrap but ultimately chose to sink money into my Q5SF.

I will see AsianJedi in a few weeks when I take his class (again) and will need to shoot his gun.

[Bryan W]

I'm sensing some mixed feelings on this thread with the PDPs. I own 5 of these guns, 5" 4.5's and the 4".... I get the recoil impulse turns some dudes off... In fact, I talked to the Walther rep about this some at the TTPOA swat conference not long ago. My comment was the timer and target always tell the tale, and my experience is that these guns perform. I'll always be a glock fan boy, these guns really do perform at a higher level. Just my .02.

[spyderco monkey]

I really want to like the new Walthers, I just wonder what is the source of this stiffer / greater recoil impulse?

That seems to be the fate of all the Glock competitors - they improve a number of aspects of the pistol over the Glock, but then introduce some fatal flaw that sinks it / prevents it from being clearly superior.

[Kyle Reese]

I really want to like the new Walthers, I just wonder what is the source of this stiffer / greater recoil impulse?

That seems to be the fate of all the Glock competitors - they improve a number of aspects of the pistol over the Glock, but then introduce some fatal flaw that sinks it / prevents it from being clearly superior.

I think that they’re oversprung from the factory and I’m using a 15 pound recoil spring in my 5”. Tracks much flatter IMO.


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[spyderco monkey]

I think that they’re oversprung from the factory and I’m using a 15 pound recoil spring in my 5”. Tracks much flatter IMO.


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That's possible.

However when I had my PPQ, the recoil was weirdly harsh. 115gr steel case plinking ammo (which later clocked a subsonic 1067fps) felt like 40 s&w out of it. My buddy had a nearly identical experience with his VP9 - thought it felt like .40. (and this is a guy who put 1000rd+ .454 through his Alaskan snub nose, so not a recoil sissy like I am.)

I know spring rate can make the pistol dip / seeswaw when it's too strong. But it doesn't seem like a heavy spring would make the gun have a harsher backwards recoil impulse during slow fire?

My only hypothesis I could figure out was that the PPQ frame used a more rigid polymer then that of my Glocks or my CZ P09. And perhaps the more rigid polymer transferred more shock impulse on recoil?

The PPQ was super accurate, wonderful trigger, perfect ergonomics...but the recoil impulse was a deal breaker for me.

[RevolverRob]

Why does each successive generation of Walther get uglier and uglier? This latest PDP F looks like a cartoon drawn by an 8-year old.

That they are simultaneously ugly and not fun to shoot makes me wonder what is even the point of considering Walther anymore.

[Dave Williams]

I am told the 13lb spring and matching guide rod from ZR tactical https://zrtacticalsolutions.com/shop/firearm-parts/walther/walther-ppq-pdp-uncaptured-stainless-guide-rod/ , along with the Sprinco Series 29 striker spring https://benstoegerproshop.com/walther-ppq-canik-mete-tp-series-29-newton-striker-spring-by-sprinco/ is the way to go for these pistols. Along with PMM mag well and baseplates. https://www.parkermountainmachine.com/product/pmm-magwell-and-baseplates-for-walther-pdp-full-size/ I am contemplating getting one setup for myself. This info is from one of Jedi’s crew.

[coN]

I think that they’re oversprung from the factory and I’m using a 15 pound recoil spring in my 5”. Tracks much flatter IMO.
I may have to try this as I also have the 5" model. I read that going with the 5" model would mitigate some of the harsh recoil I despised when my I had 4" PPQ. While it is flippy, it's super fast to get back on target and the recoil isn't bad at all IMO. But if I could get it to have flatter tracking, im willing to give it a try.

The PPQ 4" when i had it was just not fun to shoot for a session. I'm actually going thru the same thing with a P30L. Surprisingly terrible recoil that is similar if not worse to the PPQ.

[GJM]

I may have to try this as I also have the 5" model. I read that going with the 5" model would mitigate some of the harsh recoil I despised when my I had 4" PPQ. While it is flippy, it's super fast to get back on target and the recoil isn't bad at all IMO. But if I could get it to have flatter tracking, im willing to give it a try.

The PPQ 4" when i had it was just not fun to shoot for a session. I'm actually going thru the same thing with a P30L. Surprisingly terrible recoil that is similar if not worse to the PPQ.

The P30, as I recall, feels like in a boat in large waves in recoil, where the PDP is like a fast explosion.

[coN]

The P30, as I recall, feels like in a boat in large waves in recoil
I would actually apply this descriptor to a USP45 Expert because that's exactly feels like to me which makes it fun to shoot. Though I can shoot it quickly it feels like the slide moves in slow motion after extraction and when returning back into battery.

The PPQ/P30L felt just as you described, a small explosion. It was very abrupt and just unpleasant in a longer session. The difference between the two is that the PPQ was harsh AND flippy.

I always wondered how the Q5 steel frame behaved vs the polymer one...

[Coal Train]

I would actually apply this descriptor to a USP45 Expert because that's exactly feels like to me which makes it fun to shoot. Though I can shoot it quickly it feels like the slide moves in slow motion after extraction and when returning back into battery.

The PPQ/P30L felt just as you described, a small explosion. It was very abrupt and just unpleasant in a longer session. The difference between the two is that the PPQ was harsh AND flippy.

I always wondered how the Q5 steel frame behaved vs the polymer one...
Probably part of is is the elliptical shape of the PPQ/P30 grip vs the Germanic block of the USP.

And the USP has Kraut magic.

[And my USP45 experience is similar to yours. “Be quick but don’t hurry”]

[GJM]

I would actually apply this descriptor to a USP45 Expert because that's exactly feels like to me which makes it fun to shoot. Though I can shoot it quickly it feels like the slide moves in slow motion after extraction and when returning back into battery.

The PPQ/P30L felt just as you described, a small explosion. It was very abrupt and just unpleasant in a longer session. The difference between the two is that the PPQ was harsh AND flippy.

I always wondered how the Q5 steel frame behaved vs the polymer one...

If you want pogo, try a USP Expert in 9!

[dtw]

I've been using a NDZ 13lb spring for the last few months , and it's made a significant difference in my 4.5" full size.
Shoots flatter and dot returns to target quickly.

Also installed an Apex trigger when the good Walther trigger was impossible to find.

After 9 months of matches and classes, I'm liking this pistol a LOT.

[Guizan]

Looking for a little advice...

I'd like to get an optics ready pistol and I'm heavily leaning towards the pdp. In order for me to get one I'd need to sell my ppq m1. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the value of my ppq is these days, as I don't see them listed anywhere. Are they still sought after or has their value taken a nose dive since the pdp's release?

Reading through the thread I've concluded I'll like the pdp as I love the ppq, I'm just ready for an optic and I want the option to use different optics. If I get the slide milled on the ppq I'm stuck with whatever pattern I choose, correct?

Just having a bit of indecision about this... any advice would be appreciated!

[Evil_Ed]

Looking for a little advice...

I'd like to get an optics ready pistol and I'm heavily leaning towards the pdp. In order for me to get one I'd need to sell my ppq m1. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the value of my ppq is these days, as I don't see them listed anywhere. Are they still sought after or has their value taken a nose dive since the pdp's release?

Reading through the thread I've concluded I'll like the pdp as I love the ppq, I'm just ready for an optic and I want the option to use different optics. If I get the slide milled on the ppq I'm stuck with whatever pattern I choose, correct?

Just having a bit of indecision about this... any advice would be appreciated!

Did you check gunbroker completed auctions? PPQ M1s seem to be going somewhere around 400-500 depending on mags and etc. The M1 was never as popular as the M2 because of the mag release. It's probably akin to trying to sell a manual transmission car these days. If Walther made a PDP with paddle mag releases I'd be all over it, but I doubt they'll re-do the molds and components that much.

There are companies that make RMR-><whatever> footprint conversion plates, especially for Acro or 509T footprints...if you had to have one footprint cut though it would probably be an RMR footprint for the most compatibility. I don't think Wright Armory or Agency Arms has their cuts available for the PPQ.

[Lex Luthier]

Did you check gunbroker completed auctions? PPQ M1s seem to be going somewhere around 400-500 depending on mags and etc. The M1 was never as popular as the M2 because of the mag release. It's probably akin to trying to sell a manual transmission car these days. If Walther made a PDP with paddle mag releases I'd be all over it, but I doubt they'll re-do the molds and components that much.

There are companies that make RMR-><whatever> footprint conversion plates, especially for Acro or 509T footprints...if you had to have one footprint cut though it would probably be an RMR footprint for the most compatibility. I don't think Wright Armory or Agency Arms has their cuts available for the PPQ.

There are some folks out there who have fit PDP compact slide assemblies to PPQ frames- I do not know if the M1 would work, though apparently the M2 does with little-to-no issue. You might look into it.
(Yes, I am a hipster, and I really like the M1.)

[crosseyedshooter]

Looking for a little advice...

I'd like to get an optics ready pistol and I'm heavily leaning towards the pdp. In order for me to get one I'd need to sell my ppq m1. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the value of my ppq is these days, as I don't see them listed anywhere. Are they still sought after or has their value taken a nose dive since the pdp's release?

Reading through the thread I've concluded I'll like the pdp as I love the ppq, I'm just ready for an optic and I want the option to use different optics. If I get the slide milled on the ppq I'm stuck with whatever pattern I choose, correct?

Just having a bit of indecision about this... any advice would be appreciated!

If all you want is to make it optic-ready without committing to a particular sight, CHPWS has an upgrade service to turn your PPQ to a Q4 with the Walther factory slide cut (https://chpws.com/product/walther-defense-slide-optic-milling-upgrade-program/) for about a hundred bucks. Then you can buy any adapter plate (https://chpws.com/product-tag/walther/?CHPWS=1&pa_model=walther-defense-ppq&really_curr_tax=391-product_tag) that fits the factory Q4/Q5 for your choice of RMR, 509T, ACRO, etc.

[crosseyedshooter]

This is the most logical explanation I’ve seen regarding PDP (and PPQ) out of battery trigger behavior. I think this is a characteristic of the Walther’s sear design and would be curious to know if the Canik clones behave the same way. That new Mete MC9, meant for CCW, is specifically one I’m thinking of. Recall that it’s the DA/SA mechanism from the P99 with the DA part essentially removed.


http://youtu.be/eXdvhMVfkvs

[Dave Williams]

This is the most logical explanation I’ve seen regarding PDP (and PPQ) out of battery trigger behavior. I think this is a characteristic of the Walther’s sear design and would be curious to know if the Canik clones behave the same way. That new Mete MC9, meant for CCW, is specifically one I’m thinking of. Recall that it’s the DA/SA mechanism from the P99 with the DA part essentially removed.


http://youtu.be/eXdvhMVfkvs

I believe this video is all a part of Ben’s war on Jedlinski.

[Noah]

I believe this video is all a part of Ben’s war on Jedlinski.

I like Ben, but funnily enough I thought the same thing. The timing is interesting. Doesn't Hwansik shoot for Walther or at least shoot a Walther?

It's definitely a real "issue" with the PDP, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. It's not a "fatal flaw" although Ben even says in the video he is using some hyperbole.

The Walther and especially the VP9 having a dead trigger after an impact are also "problems" especially for LEO use, but this out of battery dead trigger and the issue above both seem pretty minor compared to say like, the issues of an early P320. But, that's easy for me to say as I'm just not that interested in single action striker guns to begin with.

[HCM]

I believe this video is all a part of Ben’s war on Jedlinski.

The video may be but the issue is real and was identified prior to the whole “Ben-Linski” drama.

[David S.]

Ben seems to be "at war" with the entire industry, and has been for a long time. Jedi is just one of the latest marks.

[CCT125US]

Ben seems to be "at war" with the entire industry, and has been for a long time. Jedi is just one of the latest marks.

Agreed, and I'm perfectly fine with that.

[Kyle Reese]

I just checked my PDPs & attempted to replicate the issue enumerated in Ben's video. I dry-fired both guns- but I will test both during live-fire tomorrow and report back.

My 5" model with stock trigger exhibits the issue- dead trigger after slide goes back into battery & the trigger is pressed again.

My 5.1 " SD-PRO with the factory-installed Walther Dynamic-Performance Trigger does NOT exhibit the dead trigger issue. It will fire when the slide is back into battery and the trigger is pressed.

I'm teaching a pistol-mounted optics course tomorrow and I'm sure this topic will be brought up.

[Dave Williams]

I just checked my PDPs & attempted to replicate the issue enumerated in Ben's video. I dry-fired both guns- but I will test both during live-fire tomorrow and report back.

My 5" model with stock trigger exhibits the issue- dead trigger after slide goes back into battery & the trigger is pressed again.

My 5.1 " SD-PRO with the factory-installed Walther Dynamic-Performance Trigger does NOT exhibit the dead trigger issue. It will fire when the slide is back into battery and the trigger is pressed.

I'm teaching a pistol-mounted optics course tomorrow and I'm sure this topic will be brought up.

I was wondering if the performance trigger would make a difference.

[David S.]

Sorry for the shitty screen shot.

107129

[DaBigBR]

I like Ben...

Stoeger is one of those guys that every time he is brought up, people have to preface their comments with their opinion on him. "I like Ben, but...", "Ben knows shooting, but...", "Ben can be a dick, but..."

Just a general observation on the guy.


I just checked my PDPs & attempted to replicate the issue enumerated in Ben's video. I dry-fired both guns- but I will test both during live-fire tomorrow and report back.

My 5" model with stock trigger exhibits the issue- dead trigger after slide goes back into battery & the trigger is pressed again.

My 5.1 " SD-PRO with the factory-installed Walther Dynamic-Performance Trigger does NOT exhibit the dead trigger issue. It will fire when the slide is back into battery and the trigger is pressed.

I'm teaching a pistol-mounted optics course tomorrow and I'm sure this topic will be brought up.


I was wondering if the performance trigger would make a difference.

Every PDP and PPQ that I have handled exhibits this "issue", including my Q5SF with the Dynamic Performance Trigger. I'm not saying that they all do, but I am at least a data point saying that the DPT can be affected. I have mixed feelings about whether it is actually a problem and I don't think that I would necessarily tell somebody to avoid Walther because of it at this point. I understand Chris's point that there are plenty of guns out there that perform very similarly and do not have this issue.

[HCM]

Stoeger is one of those guys that every time he is brought up, people have to preface their comments with their opinion on him. "I like Ben, but...", "Ben knows shooting, but...", "Ben can be a dick, but..."

Just a general observation on the guy.





Every PDP and PPQ that I have handled exhibits this "issue", including my Q5SF with the Dynamic Performance Trigger. I'm not saying that they all do, but I am at least a data point saying that the DPT can be affected. I have mixed feelings about whether it is actually a problem and I don't think that I would necessarily tell somebody to avoid Walther because of it at this point. I understand Chris's point that there are plenty of guns out there that perform very similarly and do not have this issue.

May not be a problem for a range / competition gun but a 100% no go for a duty gun.

I’m not 100% convinced the walther pro trigger negates the issue. The models with pro trigger usually also have threaded barrels which provide some standoff. I’d like to see that tested in a gun with a pro trigger and a standard flush barrel.

There is also been some chatter claiming that Walter addressed this via rolling changes and that PDPs produced after February of this year are not affected.

I was in my local gun store this afternoon and tried this with both a new standard PDP and a new Tac model with threaded barrel and pro trigger. The standard model exhibited the issue. The tactical model did not push. The threaded barrel made it impossible to duplicate time the muzzle bump.

[GJM]

May not be a problem for a range / competition gun but a 100% no go for a duty gun.

I feel like the other Walther PPQ/PDP problem is just as significant-- that being the striker dropping and giving you a dead trigger.

[HCM]

I feel like the other Walther PPQ/PDP problem is just as significant-- that being the striker dropping and giving you a dead trigger.

I was thinking about that, given they are similar enough internally that Walther’s performance trigger fits and functions in both guns.

[Noah]

I feel like the other Walther PPQ/PDP problem is just as significant-- that being the striker dropping and giving you a dead trigger.

This would bother me a lot, especially in a duty rig banging around car doors, or hands on with a suspect.

[Ed L]

Ben seems to be "at war" with the entire industry, and has been for a long time. Jedi is just one of the latest marks.

Remember when he came here to troll Todd and Todd banned him? That was 13 years ago.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4393-To-Press-out-or-not-Or-something-else/page4

[Kyle Reese]

Update with live fire results-

I performed this test once with each pistol on an outdoor range.

My 5" model (born on date 2022, FDS Serial Number Prefix) with stock trigger once again had a dead trigger after the slide went back into battery & the trigger was pressed again.

My 5.1 " SD-PRO (born on date 2023, FEA Serial Number Prefix) with the factory-installed Walther Dynamic-Performance Trigger did NOT exhibit the dead trigger issue.

Another data point- both handguns were purchased from Walther via the IOP program.

For me, these guns are primarily used for USPSA/2-Gun and are not carried or intended for defensive contexts.

[crosseyedshooter]

Update with live fire results-

I performed this test once with each pistol on an outdoor range.

My 5" model (born on date 2022, FDS Serial Number Prefix) with stock trigger once again had a dead trigger after the slide went back into battery & the trigger was pressed again.

My 5.1 " SD-PRO (born on date 2023, FEA Serial Number Prefix) with the factory-installed Walther Dynamic-Performance Trigger did NOT exhibit the dead trigger issue.

Another data point- both handguns were purchased from Walther via the IOP program.

For me, these guns are primarily used for USPSA/2-Gun and are not carried or intended for defensive contexts.

There’s a comment in the above YouTube video that states Walther updated the design and 2023 PDPs no longer behave that way. It seems your experience supports this.

[GJM]

Walther is on the roll with major LE contracts:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/07/25/fdacs-adopts-walther-pdp/

[Hot Sauce]

Walther is on the roll with major LE contracts:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2023/07/25/fdacs-adopts-walther-pdp/

Are there other major department contracts in addition to this one?

[paherne]

The Walther my former department is evaluating for a replacement for GEN4G17s versus a G45 MOS shit the bed and no longer functions. I photographed the pistol but did not examine it.

[Evil_Ed]

The Walther my former department is evaluating for a replacement for GEN4G17s versus a G45 MOS shit the bed and no longer functions. I photographed the pistol but did not examine it.

Ouch! Striker break? Trigger group problem?

[GJM]

Are there other major department contracts in addition to this one?

My attempt at humor.

[Jason M]

Are there other major department contracts in addition to this one?

An agency with more than 4k sworn should be announcing their PDP news soon.

[Archer1440]

My attempt at humor.

Well, skimming over the first 40 or so pages of this thread shows me that there would be more than a few posts edited or redacted if the forum software allowed it. Nothing like a couple years of experience to set expectations straight.

Which ought to be a cautionary tale for another hot thread at the moment, but I digress.

[Dave Williams]

An agency with more than 4k sworn should be announcing their PDP news soon.

It will be interesting to see how it works out.

[SamueL]

An agency with more than 4k sworn should be announcing their PDP news soon.

Now that's humorous! In more ways than most will realize.