The PX4 Compact might be my DA/SA Glock 19

[LangdonTactical]

The newest handgun on my radar screen is the Beretta PX4 Compact. I’ve never really given it a second thought even though it has been out and available for years. Some people really love the PX4. Some people don’t. I have heard great things about its accuracy and there are still a few police departments carrying the PX4 as their issued side arm. That being said, why is it a gun that almost no one considers a personal carry option?

I started asking myself this when I was working in the Beretta booth at the NRA Show this year. I was talking to customers about the new handguns from Beretta, like the M9A3, Wilson Combat Brigadier Tactical, and the full 90 series product line. I am fully familiar with all of them, but I was contemplating getting a smaller gun for daily carry. I carry the full-size M9A1 now and while I have become accustomed to it, summer was right around the corner and I wanted something smaller and lighter.

Of course, most would say “get a 92 Compact” and while that was an option, there were a few things that have stopped me from carrying it full-time:
1) No front sight options. You get what you get unless you send it off to Tool Tech and have a night sight put in. No front dove tail!
2) No G model available, or at least not currently. Of course, I could send it down to Wilson Combat and have it converted, but that’s an added cost.
3) 13 round magazines. Not a big deal, but in my opinion, a gun that size should have 15 rounds of 9mm.
4) Hard for me to load with the standard mag. I can do it really well with a full size mag in the compact gun, but a quick reload with the standard 13 round mag often ends up with some of my skin between the frame and floor plate of the magazine. The grip on the 92 Compact is about a ¼ of an inch too short for my hands.

So, this brings me to the PX4. I started playing with the PX4 Compact and realized it had the features I was looking for in a smaller, lighter compact carry gun. The PX4 also has has 15 round mags (17 with extension), dove tail front and rear sights, the safety converts to a G configuration easily and it has the same manual of arms as my full size 92s. Most importantly, I can load it full speed without catching the heal of my hand with the magazine floor plate. Not to mention, the trigger is smooth and shootable out-of-the-box.

The PX4 was feeling like a great option, but there were some other factors to consider. Right off the bat, those huge safety levers! They were way too big for my liking and have some really sharp edges on them. The ambi slide stops are bigger than they need to be and seem to make the gun wider than it should be.

So I started asking the questions…
Ernest: What about those huge safety levers?
Beretta: “We make stealth levers that are much smaller. ”
Ernest: Really? What about those huge ambi slide stops?
Beretta: “We make a smaller single side one.”
Ernest: Really? What about that really little mag button?
Beretta: “We sell a kit with three different size buttons.”
Ernest: Really?

I mean why did I not know this stuff? I consider myself a gun guy and a Beretta guy, but I did not really know anything about the PX4 at all. I knew the safety lever could be converted to G and that it was a rotating barrel design like the Cougar, but that was really about all I knew.

So, when I got back from the show I continued looking into the PX4 with more detail and finally broke down and picked one up from my favorite gun shop, Virginia Arms in Manassas. I drove straight to the range to make sure I wasn’t going to have buyer’s remorse. I put 200 rounds through it right out of the box. Easy to shoot, very flat shooting for the size and weight. (Surprisingly flat shooting, actually). It also hit to point of aim and was very, very accurate!

I liked it, but, of course, I was headed home to take it apart and swap out the hammer spring to a 12 pound chrome silicon spring for the 92 (thanks to Bill Wilson for that tip - he likes them too). The DA pull weight decreases quite a bit and I decided to start the 2,000 round-test with this thing. I clean it, lube it, black out the rear sight and add some orange paint to the front dot, slip a piece of bicycle inner tube over the grip and we’re off to the races.

2,040 rounds later and I had no issues; so, 2,240 total at this point and I’m liking my decision so far. (Shot 147 SXTs, 147 grain reloads, 115 AE, 147 AE, 124 AE, 124 Winchester FMJ, 115 grain WinClean, and even some 90 Grain Frangible stuff.) Not a single malfunction.

So, now what? If I am going to carry this thing there are some things that need to be addressed. To start with, I need those “Stealth Levers” I was told about. A call to my buddy Eric Stern at Beretta had those sent my way. I also ordered up as set of Trijicon HD sights and a holster from Custom Carry Concepts. When the sights came in, I did a little bit more trigger work (it’s basically just like a 92 in that respect - lucky for me). I also did a little stipple work on the frame (got rid of the inner tube) and changed out the smaller magazine button for the medium mag button to make it slightly larger.

So here I am, a couple months later and many trips to the range, and I really like this gun. Not kidding! It is almost exactly the same size as a Glock 19, the trigger is now under 7 pounds DA and right at 4 pounds SA. I really like the Trijicon HD Sights. In fact, I now have over 4,000 rounds through this gun with no problems. The only failure I have had with the PX4 was in firing with the 115 WinClean, but it went bang on the second hammer strike by pulling the trigger again. (I don’t blame the gun for that, however, as I have seen lots of FTFs with WinClean.) I like it so much that I am carrying it all the time now and used it to qualify as my off-duty carry gun with the Sheriff’s Department.

I have two more PX4’s that I am playing around with and changing things up to see how it performs with different features. I have modified another one, which also has Trijicon HDs, “Stealth” levers, medium mag button, stippling on the grip, G conversion, and more aggressive trigger work. The DA on this one is just over 6 pounds and the SA is 3.5 pounds. I only have about 300 rounds through this gun, but so far, it is just as good as the other one and the better trigger makes it more fun to shoot. I now have one to carry and one to practice with.

I am going to use the third PX4 as a gun to experiment with to see what can really be done with the trigger. So far it has been really easy to get the DA down and I think I can go a lot lighter on the hammer spring with a bit more work. I would not be surprised to get a sub 6 pound DA on this third gun with 100% reliability if I set it up correctly – I’ll keep you posted.

All-in-all, I don’t know why this gun is not way more popular. If you are like me and prefer a DA/SA Traditional Double Action gun for carry, this is a great option. I carry AIWB, therefore, I prefer an external hammer gun – this PX4 is treating me well.

Here are a few comparison photos for you:

3558

3559

3560

3561

[JTQ]

Thanks for the review. This is probably something Beretta really needed, as it often seems the really knowledgeable shooters are often critical of the PX4, for whatever reason. This forum has always seemed like one of the harshest as a whole to the PX4. I've seen some positive comments from Bill Wilson over the years on the PX4, and the late Stephen A. Camp had a couple of good reviews on his site a few years back. On most forums, the "regular folk" seem to like them, but you see most of the typical forum "heavyweights" suggest something else.

I've not owned one, but it does seem to have a lot of features I like, and does have a certain smooth elegance missing on a lot of the other polymer guns.

[Kyle Reese]

After shooting Ernest's PX4 Compact, I've been lusting after one. Incredibly flat shooting and accurate.


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[TElmer2]

Just curious...doesn't the PX4 take 92 mags?

[LangdonTactical]

Just curious...doesn't the PX4 take 92 mags?

Nope, it has its own magazines.

[LangdonTactical]

35633564

Side by side with and without the "Stealth Levers"

[TElmer2]

Ok I've been on the search for a reliable TDA to use for carry and games without breaking the bank on spare mags or parts support.

Are they serviceable for basic maintenance such as trigger return springs?

[TGS]

No experience with the compact, but I shot the fullsize on a few different occasions for a few hundred rounds. I always thought it was a very nice pistol and a fine choice, if one keeps on top of keeping it cleaned and lubed.

I believe one of the reasons that it's reputation suffers is from Todd's stories of Canadian cops showing up to a class with mallets because it would predictably lock up around 300 rounds. IIRC, there's more than one PD who has noted this issue with the PX4.

Besides that, it's a fantastic choice for a recoil sensitive shooter. Probably one of the softest shooting gats out there next to the classic SIGs.

[TElmer2]

No experience with the compact, but I shot the fullsize on a few different occasions for a few hundred rounds. I always thought it was a very nice pistol and a fine choice, if one keeps on top of keeping it cleaned and lubed.

I believe one of the reasons that it's reputation suffers is from Todd's stories of Canadian cops showing up to a class with mallets because it would predictably lock up around 300 rounds. IIRC, there's more than one PD who has noted this issue with the PX4.

Besides that, it's a fantastic choice for a recoil sensitive shooter. Probably one of the softest shooting gats out there next to the classic SIGs.


I'll have to do more research on the "mallet" issue.

The mags are affordable which is a plus. It will be interesting to see if the PX4 will see a "resurgence" of popularity like the 92 has recently.

[fixer]

One other thing I liked about the px4 is how well it mimic'd the controls and ergonomics of the 92

[JTQ]

I believe one of the reasons that it's reputation suffers is from Todd's stories of Canadian cops showing up to a class with mallets because it would predictably lock up around 300 rounds. IIRC, there's more than one PD who has noted this issue with the PX4.


I think you're probably right about the original source of some of the bad reputation for the PX4. I don't know if Mr. Camp was aware of those comments when he wrote his review, but he put 1,000+ rounds through a 9mm PX4 without lube or cleaning.

PX4 9mm http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/shooting_the_9mm_beretta_px4_storm%20Updated.htm

[JTQ]

The mags are affordable which is a plus.
What are you comparing them to? In my limited searches, they are closer to HK mag prices than Beretta 92/Glock/1911 mag prices.

[GJM]

I never had a Compact, but still have a PX4 full size in 9 and 40. Set up with HD sights, lighter mainspring, low profile G levers, low profile slide stop, intermediate size mag release, JM AIWB. Here are my thoughts on the full size.

First, the positives. They are accurate, have been reliable, good triggers and soft shooting.

Then, the negatives. Grip is slippery, which EL has addressed through stippling. Even the low profile G levers seem sharp, which perhaps could be addressed by dehorning. HD sights regulate on my .40, but hit low on my 9. Slide seems slippery. Magazines feel cheesy compared to the 92 equivalents. Removing pieces to change mainspring feels like someone with my engineering ability designed that part of the system -- way cheesy. Feels big for its size.

Then there is "no love" PX4 rap that owners need to endure, as about every gun forum has condemned them as either the reason the Beretta shooting team quit or the gun that requires a mallet to maintain or both.

[TElmer2]

What are you comparing them to? In my limited searches, they are closer to HK mag prices than Beretta 92/Glock/1911 mag prices.

I have seen them on sale from buds and other places for right at the $30 amount. No, not as cheap as 92 or CZ 75 mags but still cheaper then HK mags of which I'm well aware are slightly steep. At least they aren't as expensive as the CZ P series being more than HK.

While the price of mags is a consideration for me since I have been searching for a new platform I don't try to compare mags to the ubiquitous Glock/1911/B92...it just isn't going to happen due to the popularity and length of service time with those firearms. That's just me though.

From what I have seen just about every mag for a reputable gun is more expensive than the three listed above.

[LangdonTactical]

Ok I've been on the search for a reliable TDA to use for carry and games without breaking the bank on spare mags or parts support.

Are they serviceable for basic maintenance such as trigger return springs?

So far it seems like a really easy gun to work on and Beretta is still supporting this platform. Trigger spring looks pretty stout, so I don't see it needing frequent replacement.

[HeadHunter]

You piqued my interest when we talked about it at the NRAAM. I had tried one about a year ago and liked the trigger even out of the box.

Any thoughts about using the CT Railmaster on it?

[kcevans]

Thank You for the Review, I though for the longest time I was the only person on this forum that liked the PX4 series pistol. I have been shooting a PX4 of some type for the last 5 years with many thousands of rounds through them. I have been CCWing a PX4 Compact for the last 2 years without issue, matter of fact I just recently set up a Glock 19 to start carrying but got to missing the my PX4 compact and have now grounded the Glock and went back to the PX4 .
Great Pistols, Very Under Rated.
I'm really considering the Trijicon HD's myself

[Lyonsgrid]

Great review. I've been on the fence on one for quiet some time. This may push me over.
Looking forward to training in September!

[JonInWA]

Perhaps an unfair comparison, but after experiencing several fairly spectacular fails with the PX4's immediate predecessor, the conceptually similar Cougar (in my case, an 8357), and having several superbly performing Gen 3 Glock 19s, going to a PX4 is not showing up in my crystal ball of foreseeable purchases. Nevertheless, I appreciate Ernest Langdon's objective approach; hopefully he'll have continued good results with it.

Best, Jon

[f308gt4]

The PX4 full sized was my first Beretta. I wish I could get the compact, but I'm in Kommiefornia, and it isn't on the roster of safe handguns (really???). I really like the PX4. I added the stealth levers, and was able to source a "D" spring from a Cougar. Didn't know that you could use a WC 12lb spring. I haven't had a single issue with the PX4 in over 1000 rounds fired so far.

I also have a 92G-SD with a WC 14lb Chrome-silicon hammer spring. I seem to shoot both pistols equally. I think that the PX4 trigger feels marginally better than the 92G-SD, but it's close. The 92 is definitely the prettier pistol, IMO. I'm glad to have both pistols, and both are keepers for me.

I'd love to see WC start selling parts and upgrades for the PX4- Beretta is often out of stock. It took me quite a while to get the stealth levers from Beretta. Surely WC can make their own version of the "stealth" levers, and perhaps market the 12lb spring for the PX4. Or, how about different designs for the adjustable grips? Maybe having an aftermarket source could help with the popularity of the pistol.

[LostDuke]

I actually like the PX4 compact, have not yet bought one but one day I will, particularly now that I learnt is quite customizable.

I have read some caustic posts here about rotating barrels, but my experiences shooting a friend's PX4 have been excellent, and I have had a STI GP6 I bought for a song years ago that shoots amazingly well. It's a beautiful CZ clone, with a trigger to die for, incredibly soft to shoot and accurate to a fault.

[APS-PF]

I strongly considered the PX4 Compact 9mm when I was looking for a G19 sized pistol. I had previously owned 3 other G19s and they were unreliable for me when my other Glocks (26,17,34,21,30) ran 100%. It seemed that the Beretta compact control levers were unobtainium and night sights might be a hassle if you don't have a sight pusher. So I went with a Gen4 G19 test fired date of 4/15 and of course it's a BTF queen. If the incoming apex extractor doesn't fix it the Storm compact is back on the list along with a P07.

[Jeep]

So far it seems like a really easy gun to work on and Beretta is still supporting this platform. Trigger spring looks pretty stout, so I don't see it needing frequent replacement.

To go off topic a bit, might you have any idea when the M9A3 should be out?

[azerious]

To go off topic a bit, might you have any idea when the M9A3 should be out?

probably end of year....

Back on topic, I held one today, it was very nice, however i noticed when you start the trigger pull you can "feel" a whole lotta stuff moving in the frame if that makes sense?

[ScotchMan]

The PX4 Compact in 9mm is my SO's everything gun. I think they are very underrated. Great trigger, light weight. Very slippery grip but that of course can be dealt with. The sites seem small to me somehow, but that of course can be changed as well.

If it was mine, I'd convert it to a G, and get low profile safety and slide levers.

There is a lot of plastic in the rotating barrel recoil spring assembly, it always weirds me out a little, but we've not had any issues with ours.

[Edwin]

How much thinner does the low profile parts change the overall width? I noticed the full size version of the PX4 is almost perfect for IDPA CCP and the compact for BUG-S but both models are 2mm too wide stock.

BTW: On sale for $470. Cheapest I've ever seen it. http://www.sportsmans-depot.com/products/BERETTA-Model-Px4-Storm-9mm-With-Backstrap-4%22-Barrel-%252d%252d-Free-Shipping%21.html

[TheNewbie]

Buds Gunshop has some type Gs in stock. Both in 9mm and .40.

[warpedcamshaft]

Not gonna lie, I also always thought of this gun as a bit of a turd.

I've shot 'em and acknowledged the decent trigger and shooting characteristics, but have always dismissed them from serious consideration.

I'm looking forward to hearing more.

[TCinVA]

I almost bought one today. Because of this thread. GET OUT OF MY HEAD.

[ReverendMeat]

Do it for science. That was a good enough reason for you to procure a Hi-Point so it oughtta be good enough for a gun that doesn't suck.

[Kyle Reese]

I almost bought one today. Because of this thread. GET OUT OF MY HEAD.

Doooooooo itttt nowwwwwww!


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[LangdonTactical]

How much thinner does the low profile parts change the overall width? I noticed the full size version of the PX4 is almost perfect for IDPA CCP and the compact for BUG-S but both models are 2mm too wide stock.

BTW: On sale for $470. Cheapest I've ever seen it. http://www.sportsmans-depot.com/products/BERETTA-Model-Px4-Storm-9mm-With-Backstrap-4%22-Barrel-%252d%252d-Free-Shipping%21.html
The "Stealth Levers" make it a ton thinner. My my measurements the compact is about 6mm thinner with the small levers, but most of that comes from getting rid of the right side slide stop. I don't have a standard PX4 to measure. The safety levers are about 5mm thinner than the stock ones. So that should do it if that is the widest part of the gun. If the standard PX4 does not have the ambi slide stops, then the safety levers are likely the widest part of the gun.

[Gary1911A1]

I'm starting to feel the need to order this pistol too. You should be receiving a kickback from Beretta.��

[shootist26]

do you think the rotating barrel is giving any tangible felt benefit in terms of muzzle flip/recoil control? I know it's one of the things it was advertised as doing.

Curious if it changes how recoil is perceived and/or how the sights track.

[JackRock]

do you think the rotating barrel is giving any tangible felt benefit in terms of muzzle flip/recoil control? I know it's one of the things it was advertised as doing.

Curious if it changes how recoil is perceived and/or how the sights track.

My wife has a PX4 Compact (9mm). I can't say if the rotating barrel is the actual cause of a lower perceived recoil, but there's DEFINITELY a lot less felt recoil. My wife loves hers, and she's very recoil sensitive with a partially bum shoulder.

[GJM]

I have a PX4 .40, and it is an extremely soft shooting .40. Bill Wilson put me onto it.

This thread may cause PX4 sales to spike, doubling from 2 a week to 4. I told my wife this is a very good thing, and people ought to buy PX4 pistols to get good karma. When you consider all the crazy good 92 variants out this year, getting a PX4 is like going to the Beretta pound and adopting a rescue mutt.

[RevolverRob]

So...what are the chances of seeing a factory PX4 Storm Compact with stealth levers, larger mag release, single-sided slide release, tritium night sights, and G-Conversion? Maybe with an EL serial number prefix?

Because...my wife is in love with the PX4 storm, and I have always been found of it myself.

-Rob

[fixer]

getting a PX4 is like going to the Beretta pound and adopting a rescue mutt.

Yep. The PX4 = Camaro, 92 = Corvette.

[kcevans]

I will be one of the first in line to buy one of these if they ever come to exist.



So...what are the chances of seeing a factory PX4 Storm Compact with stealth levers, larger mag release, single-sided slide release, tritium night sights, and G-Conversion? Maybe with an EL serial number prefix?

Because...my wife is in love with the PX4 storm, and I have always been found of it myself.

-Rob

[LittleLebowski]

When you consider all the crazy good 92 variants out this year, getting a PX4 is like going to the Beretta pound and adopting a rescue mutt.

Nice :D

[Gary1911A1]

So...what are the chances of seeing a factory PX4 Storm Compact with stealth levers, larger mag release, single-sided slide release, tritium night sights, and G-Conversion? Maybe with an EL serial number prefix?

Because...my wife is in love with the PX4 storm, and I have always been found of it myself.

-Rob

Maybe Bill Wilson will offer it next?

[LangdonTactical]

do you think the rotating barrel is giving any tangible felt benefit in terms of muzzle flip/recoil control? I know it's one of the things it was advertised as doing.

Curious if it changes how recoil is perceived and/or how the sights track.

To be honest I thought that whole thing was BS, but now that I have shot it quite a bit and back to back with other similar guns, it is real! Gun shoots super flat for a short barrel handgun, SUPER FLAT!

[LangdonTactical]

Perhaps an unfair comparison, but after experiencing several fairly spectacular fails with the PX4's immediate predecessor, the conceptually similar Cougar (in my case, an 8357), and having several superbly performing Gen 3 Glock 19s, going to a PX4 is not showing up in my crystal ball of foreseeable purchases. Nevertheless, I appreciate Ernest Langdon's objective approach; hopefully he'll have continued good results with it.

Best, Jon

To my knowledge, there is only one gun that holds up in .357 Sig, that is the Sig 229. And from what I am told not all serial number ranges hold up.

[LangdonTactical]

So...what are the chances of seeing a factory PX4 Storm Compact with stealth levers, larger mag release, single-sided slide release, tritium night sights, and G-Conversion? Maybe with an EL serial number prefix?

Because...my wife is in love with the PX4 storm, and I have always been found of it myself.

-Rob
So you are saying that this would be a gun that people would buy?

[GJM]

So you are saying that this would be a gun that people would buy?

When I put my two PX4 pistols together, I had to wait for G levers to become available on the BUSA website, wake up in the middle of the night to order them before they were gone, get the other bits and pieces (ma release, lighter hammer spring, slide stop), HD sights and get it all together. So yes, a complete gun ready in EL configuration would be ideal. And, first in the Compact size, as the full size is portly for this class gun.

As to how many would buy, no idea.

[JonInWA]

To my knowledge, there is only one gun that holds up in .357 Sig, that is the Sig 229. And from what I am told not all serial number ranges hold up.

I may be experimenting with a new Gen4 G22, with an additional .357 barrel down the line. We'll see...

Best, Jon

[Edwin]

So you are saying that this would be a gun that people would buy?

Do you want my credit card number now?

edit: I'd prefer a fiber front personally.

[Kyle Reese]

So you are saying that this would be a gun that people would buy?

Yes! [emoji3]


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[RevolverRob]

So you are saying that this would be a gun that people would buy?

I would buy two. One for my wife and one for me.

I'm not sure how many you would sell, but my guess is a small run 250-500 units wouldn't languish on distributor/dealer's shelves for too long.

RE sights: Everyone sort of has their own preference. A happy middle ground might be Wilson Combat Battlesight rear with fiber optic front - if WC is interested in pursuing parts. That might be a tough sell, the PX4 does have a reputation as being the "mutt" (as GJM so eloquently put it) of the Beretta line. That said, like nearly all mutts, it's lovable and enjoyable and comfortable (in my experience at least).

When I showed my wife your gun Ernest her response was, "Oh AWESOME. Can I have one?"

-Rob

[BCL]

So you are saying that this would be a gun that people would buy?

I would likely buy one or two.

[Gary1911A1]

I'd be interested in buying one already set up as described. I need a Da/SA Glock size 19 and the nly other pistol that sounds interesting only has 10 round magazines.

[Kyle Reese]

I'll have my PX 4 Compact this week. Now to source an AIWB holster for it.....

[OnionsAndDragons]

I would also buy one.


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[JR1572]

I have a full size PX4 issued to me. Absolute garbage. We are transitioning to Glock 17's right now and I cannot wait to get mine.

JR1572


The finish is almost worn completely off of the slide of my pistol in some spots.

The guide rods break.

The pin in the safety/decock lever backs out making it difficult to operate.

The magazines rust easily.

There have been other issues also. I would stay as far away as possible from the PX4. There are better pistols out there.

JR1572


Mine was issued to me brand new in either 9-10/08. I know it was soon after the hurricane we had in 2008.

As far as when it was made, I cannot find anything with a date on it in it's box.

JR1572

Here are some quotes of me discussing the PX4. I wish you all luck with your endeavors, but I was so happy to give mine back.

If I had to carry a DA/SA handgun it would be an HK before a PX4.

JR1572

[WDW]

The Px4 was trashed on here for years....why the sudden change of heart???

[JR1572]

The Px4 was trashed on here for years....why the sudden change of heart???

I'm glad I'm not the only person to notice that.

JR1572

[kcevans]

Yes I should be a good seller

[kcevans]

Funny, I have 3 PX4's with one over 11k rounds without any malfunctions.

[JackRock]

The Px4 was trashed on here for years....why the sudden change of heart???

I couldn't say. I hadn't picked on up until a few months ago, when my wife was searching for her first EDC. She was set on a Walther P99, since I shoot a PPQ and our friend shoots a P99 and she liked it a lot. However, I had read several reviews on the PX4, and it seemed to really resonate with women shooters (and not a few male shooters). So, my LGS had one in the rental cabinet and I get free rentals (member). It took less than 20 rounds for my wife to change her mind - she bought one the very next day.

We've since shot several hundred rounds through it, had others shoot it, and it has kept on going. Granted, we baby it a bit more than my Walther (cleaning slightly more frequently), but I think it's a good pistol. I haven't seen any problems just yet. I thought it was shooting low and left, but I proved that to be merely a sight picture issue after bench resting it.

[RevolverRob]

The Px4 was trashed on here for years....why the sudden change of heart???

Was it? I searched this forum for "Beretta Storm" (PX4 is too short for our search term). I found three threads excluding this one directly related to the PX4.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13971-Px4-Storm-compact-Any-commentary-on-reliability&highlight=Beretta+Storm
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12032-Beretta-Px4-D-Cougar&highlight=Beretta+Storm
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?9640-Beretta-Px4-storm-9mm-subcompact&highlight=Beretta+Storm

JR1572's comments are really the bulk of the negative results made about PX4s. The others were a reference to the potential for issues with the gun locking up from not enough lube. There are a couple of mentions of FTFs, probably from limp wrists. And then the bulk of the negative discussion focuses on the Cougar and the 9000-series guns (which were all abysmal, admittedly).

---

I'm not sure I would say "trashed". I would say more like, "Mostly unknown with some negative thoughts and some positive thoughts." As to why the sudden change of heart - I'm not seeing a sudden change of heart amongst those who have professed previous interest in the gun. In addition, most of us respect Mr. Langdon's thoughts on DA/SA handguns and particularly Berettas. I'll continue to watch his work with the PX4 Compact for a bit longer, before I go acquire my own PX4 Compact and set it up like the one shown in the first post. If an EL Edition were to come out I would buy two.

-Rob

[TCinVA]

The Px4 was trashed on here for years....why the sudden change of heart???

At dinner a couple of months ago Ernest talked about how much he was liking his PX4C. I can only assume my half of the conversation went something like:


http://youtu.be/5AYIcTVizM4

I've paid Ernest good money to tell me I'm wrong before. I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong on this.

[LittleLebowski]

At dinner a couple of months ago Ernest talked about how much he was liking his PX4C. I can only assume my half of the conversation went something like:


This is correct, I was there.

[KevinB]

After shooting Ernest's PX4 Compact, I've been lusting after one. Incredibly flat shooting and accurate.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I hate to be a me too - but I will agree that I was remarkably impressed when I shot it as well.

I'm curious if the little rail area up front will house the new SF mini pistol light?

[THellURider]

Interesting thread - I'd be curious to try one.

Any thoughts on how this compares to the CZ P07 Compact?

[LangdonTactical]

Interesting thread - I'd be curious to try one.

Any thoughts on how this compares to the CZ P07 Compact?

I have heard mixed results about the PO7, much like the PX4C, and have shot a few students guns in classes. I don't like the way the CZ DA trigger seems to release really early in the pull with a ton of over travel and then the break point for SA is in a completely different place. I also remember the P07 to be a little snappy in recoil, but still shootable.

[Irelander]

Color me interested. I handled a PX4 Compact during the opening of a Field and Stream store near me. It seemed nice and it was fun to rack the slide and see the rotating barrel but I passed it off as a gimmick and moved on. I wish there was a range that did rentals around here cause I'd really like to try one. I have been considering buying a DA/SA gun to see how I like it for AIWB use. I had been looking at the CZ P07 but I now need to check out the PX4C also. Thanks for the writeup.

[Navyguns]

I shot a PX4 Storm 9x19 compact today. Shoots flatter and softer than my G19G4. I was impressed with the weapon.

[Doug]

Does anyone know why the full size replacement PX4 barrels cost $290 vs 92fs $130? Volume? Profit? Design?

http://m.berettausa.com/productDetails/?id=142350250&keyword=Px4%20barrel&indexPosition=17&

http://m.berettausa.com/productDetails/?id=142350030&keyword=92%20barrel&indexPosition=13&

Seems high compared to the cost of the PX4.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[45dotACP]

This thread isn't helpful to me...nor my wallet. My 92fs compact has just never seemed to quite fit the role, being a bit of short, but husky pistol with no interchangeable front sight and no rail.

Now I find myself perusing gunbroker and cursing my soft spot for those italian gunsmiths. I swear to God, I am on a 1911 kick from now til single stack nats (I hope to compete there next year) but the PX4 sure does look tempting.

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I have a love hate relationship with my primary carry Gen 4 19 and lately it has just been pissing me off. I too am going through the DA/SA Renaissance and this thread is very interesting. I am going to seek out a compact model to check out!

[orionz06]

The Px4 was trashed on here for years....why the sudden change of heart???

Nope. It was slammed on quite hard.


What's changed with them now that has many people going back on previous (experience based) suggestions to avoid them?

[ScotchMan]

do you think the rotating barrel is giving any tangible felt benefit in terms of muzzle flip/recoil control? I know it's one of the things it was advertised as doing.

Curious if it changes how recoil is perceived and/or how the sights track.

My Glock 19 still has less recoil, if that means anything. I think that is more due to grip ergonomics and bore axis than the rotating barrel.

I guess I would say that it may help but not as much as other factors.

[Brian T]

I am curious how good a DAO version would be.

[GJM]

I am curious how good a DAO version would be.

I have a 92D or two, and I can't imagine picking DAO over Beretta DA/SA.

[LangdonTactical]

OK, so I now have just a little over 2K through the second gun. A 1,000 of that was Winchester WinClean (known for not being the most reliable ammo) and now a second PX4 has passed the 2,000 round test. So far the best hammer spring is the Cougar "D" spring. Gun has proved to be super accurate with everything I shoot in it and how I have a little over 6K through two guns and they have both been 100% reliable. Interestingly they both run the Winchester WinClean better than my 92 does. The WinClean gives me fits in the 92 pretty often. The PX4 Compact not only runs it well, it seems to shoot it very accurately also.

I have also heard that there are even more parts for the PX4 than I knew about. Turns out Beretta Italy has spent quite a bit of time developing some accessories for these guns. There are 4 different versions of the safety levers in different sizes. There are steel guide rod kits and even an improved trigger group. Basically it is a whole hammer and sear group that just drops into the frame that includes a better hammer spring. Both DA and SA are improved with this kit. I am trying to see if I can get my hands on one to try. This kit includes a stiffer cage that houses everything as well as plated parts for a smoother action.

3685

So the project continues. So far this little gun is making me happy and doing everything I would expect it to do.

[breakingtime91]

Nope. It was slammed on quite hard.


What's changed with them now that has many people going back on previous (experience based) suggestions to avoid them?

maybe people were quick to jump on the bandwagon? No idea, but its good to see someone testing it out and giving people a different option besides the g19

[Jaywalker]

Nope. It was slammed on quite hard.


What's changed with them now that has many people going back on previous (experience based) suggestions to avoid them?

Todd was one of the slammers: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10287-PX4-full-size/page2

[Kyle Reese]

I'm pleased with mine and am going to put another 200 rounds thru it tonight. Going to apply some skateboard tape to key areas to address one of the main gripes that I have with the grip.

[JTQ]

Going to apply some skateboard tape to key areas to address one of the main gripes that I have with the grip.
Of all the modifications Mr. Langdon did to his PX4, the stipple job would probably be the most significant for me.

[Kyle Reese]

Of all the modifications Mr. Langdon did to his PX4, the stipple job would probably be the most significant for me.

Indeed.

[Navyguns]

OK, so I now have just a little over 2K through the second gun. A 1,000 of that was Winchester WinClean (known for not being the most reliable ammo) and now a second PX4 has passed the 2,000 round test. So far the best hammer spring is the Cougar "D" spring. Gun has proved to be super accurate with everything I shoot in it and how I have a little over 6K through two guns and they have both been 100% reliable. Interestingly they both run the Winchester WinClean better than my 92 does. The WinClean gives me fits in the 92 pretty often. The PX4 Compact not only runs it well, it seems to shoot it very accurately also.

I have also heard that there are even more parts for the PX4 than I knew about. Turns out Beretta Italy has spent quite a bit of time developing some accessories for these guns. There are 4 different versions of the safety levers in different sizes. There are steel guide rod kits and even an improved trigger group. Basically it is a whole hammer and sear group that just drops into the frame that includes a better hammer spring. Both DA and SA are improved with this kit. I am trying to see if I can get my hands on one to try. This kit includes a stiffer cage that houses everything as well as plated parts for a smoother action.

3685

So the project continues. So far this little gun is making me happy and doing everything I would expect it to do.


You have me strongly thinking about ditching my G19 for a Storm. I have shot one and was surprised at how it shot considering the size. However, the G19 is the ubiquitous carry pistol.

[kcevans]

maybe people were quick to jump on the bandwagon? No idea, but its good to see someone testing it out and giving people a different option besides the g19

I have been shooting the PX4 platform for years. I have found that everyone I have spoken with that has trash talked the PX4 was forming their opinion from information they had heard from a friend who has a buddy who knows a guy that had been told by his friend that his cousin knew a guy who had a PX4 that was a jam-a-matic that required a rubber mallet.

They are GREAT pistols, I carry a box stock PX4 compact everyday and have for the last couple of years.

[LangdonTactical]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGJZRapjzOo

[LangdonTactical]

That was today with PX4 number two.

[Hizzie]

Makes me wanna pick one up. I'm digging TDA so far with a WC Brig Tac.

[GJM]

They are dirt cheap -- $419 on GunBroker. Pictures there of an additional $75 rebate, but not sure if that is still valid.

[Up1911Fan]

They are dirt cheap -- $419 on GunBroker. Pictures there of an additional $75 rebate, but not sure if that is still valid.

Ended June 30th according to BUSA website.

[Kyle Reese]

Makes me wanna pick one up. I'm digging TDA so far with a WC Brig Tac.

I just ordered a Shaggy for mine. I'm really digging this pistol!

[LangdonTactical]

I just ordered a Shaggy for mine. I'm really digging this pistol!

Yeah, I was running from a Shaggy on that video. I have been running that holster for about two months now. It is working really well for me.

[Clobbersaurus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGJZRapjzOo

Damn that is good shooting Ernest. I don't think I've ever seen anyone post a video of a back to back sub 5 second run.

TDA pistols for the win!

[LangdonTactical]

Damn that is good shooting Ernest. I don't think I've ever seen anyone post a video of a back to back sub 5 second run.

TDA pistols for the win!
Thanks man!

[pew_pew]

Been a while since I've played with one. How much take up is there in single action? That's what's been making me not get a p09.

[Lyonsgrid]

Very nicely done EL.
I'd like to see your draw technique and reload from AIWB from the front view.
Awesome!

[LangdonTactical]

Very nicely done EL.
I'd like to see your draw technique and reload from AIWB from the front view.
Awesome!

Yeah, I have been thinking of doing a whole video on just AIWB tips and tricks kind of stuff.

[LittleLebowski]

Yeah, I have been thinking of doing a whole video on just AIWB tips and tricks kind of stuff.

Shoot me a line if you want me to summarize your PX4 experience and publish it.

[LangdonTactical]

Shoot me a line if you want me to summarize your PX4 experience and publish it.

Yup, that is a good idea.

[LangdonTactical]

By the way, Another 500 rounds thought the PX4 today. Almost exactly 300 yesterday. Brings the total up to just over 2800 rounds through the second gun now on the original clean and lube. Still 100% with 5 different types of ammo including 1k of WinClean. I might break down and clean and lube it tomorrow before the next range trip. I would do the same for pretty much any other gun I owned. I will at least add some oil, kind of like an old truck.

[breakingtime91]

By the way, Another 500 rounds thought the PX4 today. Almost exactly 300 yesterday. Brings the total up to just over 2800 rounds through the second gun now on the original clean and lube. Still 100% with 5 different types of ammo including 1k of WinClean. I might break down and clean and lube it tomorrow before the next range trip. I would do the same for pretty much any other gun I owned. I will at least add some oil, kind of like an old truck.

I think it would be interesting if you kept pushing it honestly, see what its capable of. I'm starting to think this gun got a unfair shake, at least on our forum. Glad to see were readdressing!

[Little Creek]

So you are saying that this would be a gun that people would buy?

This pistol would appeal to me if and only if it had ambidextrous slide releases, as I and 20% of the population are LH. Nuff said!

[LangdonTactical]

This pistol would appeal to me if and only if it had ambidextrous slide releases, as I and 20% of the population are LH. Nuff said!

The PX4 Compact does have ambidextrous slide releases. I am right handed so I took the other lever off to make the gun slimmer.

[LangdonTactical]

I think it would be interesting if you kept pushing it honestly, see what its capable of. I'm starting to think this gun got a unfair shake, at least on our forum. Glad to see were readdressing!


Yeah, I think that is true. I was just in Canada at the same range where Todd gets the stores from. I asked Rob about that specifically, he said those guys don't lube their guns at all. I don't know of any handgun that will run dry. Especially when we are talking high round count shooting classes. They all lock up, or at least will start malfunctioning, when they get hot if you don't lube them at least a little. .

I also know that if people have a gun issued to them that they don't like and are looking to get rid of it, they will make it look bad. I have seen it many times over the years. If a department decides they want to get rid of brand X gun, you can bet they will start having problems.

[Clobbersaurus]

Yeah, I have been thinking of doing a whole video on just AIWB tips and tricks kind of stuff.

I think this type of video is definitely needed.

[Up1911Fan]

I think this type of video is definitely needed.

Seconded.

[LangdonTactical]

Seconded.

OK, it's on the list then. The hard part will be keeping it short enough so people will watch it all the way through.

[Saur]

OK, it's on the list then. The hard part will be keeping it short enough so people will watch it all the way through.

Lookin' forward to it!

Also, thank you for posting up the vid on the qore performance stuff. I had assumed it was simply under armor you were wearing, as its something I wear to help w/ the heat. Didn't realize the qore stuff had cooling pads though. I've heard of boxers using cooling mitts to help recovery during training sessions. Pretty cool stuff!

[JTQ]

I asked Rob about that specifically, he said those guys don't lube their guns at all. I don't know of any handgun that will run dry. Especially when we are talking high round count shooting classes. They all lock up, or at least will start malfunctioning, when they get hot if you don't lube them at least a little. .

P. E. Kelley has a review on the Grand Power P45, another rotating barrel pistol https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16688-Grand-Power-P45acp-Big-Bullet-Blaster

He had some stoppages with the gun and at around the 9:50 mark into the video, he mentions the factory's solution to the problem was to lube the barrel where it contacts the breach face. Since most of us have little, if any, experience with pistols with a rotating barrel, I suspect most of us wouldn't think to lube the gun there, but it makes sense that it would need it. It even seems logical an otherwise properly lubed gun could even malfunction without lube there which would be unique to a rotating barreled gun.

[Little Creek]

The PX4 Compact does have ambidextrous slide releases. I am right handed so I took the other lever off to make the gun slimmer.

Thanks for making that clear. Superb shooting as seen on the FAST video. Would like to see your technique, from the front, for getting the shirt out of the way during the draw and reload.

[Edwin]

OK, so I now have just a little over 2K through the second gun. A 1,000 of that was Winchester WinClean (known for not being the most reliable ammo) and now a second PX4 has passed the 2,000 round test. So far the best hammer spring is the Cougar "D" spring. Gun has proved to be super accurate with everything I shoot in it and how I have a little over 6K through two guns and they have both been 100% reliable. Interestingly they both run the Winchester WinClean better than my 92 does. The WinClean gives me fits in the 92 pretty often. The PX4 Compact not only runs it well, it seems to shoot it very accurately also.

I have also heard that there are even more parts for the PX4 than I knew about. Turns out Beretta Italy has spent quite a bit of time developing some accessories for these guns. There are 4 different versions of the safety levers in different sizes. There are steel guide rod kits and even an improved trigger group. Basically it is a whole hammer and sear group that just drops into the frame that includes a better hammer spring. Both DA and SA are improved with this kit. I am trying to see if I can get my hands on one to try. This kit includes a stiffer cage that houses everything as well as plated parts for a smoother action.

3685

So the project continues. So far this little gun is making me happy and doing everything I would expect it to do.

I went looking for some of the parts you mentioned and found the trigger group here (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-trigger-group-special-competition-/). It's labeled only for the 9x21 IMI and .40S&W so I'm unsure if it would work with the 9x19 we all use here or if they didn't bother to label it as such since they can't sell stuff for military calibers in Italy.

This is mostly for others since you probably already know this, but here (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/store/accessori-per-armi/pistole/accessori/#gm=Model-PX4-Full-Size&mpp=24) is the section with all the special PX4 parts. Sounds like they use a low friction coating called DLC (Diamond Like Coating) that supposedly does stuff similar to NP3. The locking block (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-dlc-central-block-device/) they sell is especially labeled with the DLC coating. The neatest part I see there is the 90 series style safety levers for the PX4 (Beretta Leve Sicura Tipo "F" R.P. (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-safety-levers-type-f-r-p-/)) as I don't really like the style the PX4 comes with.

I wonder if I could get these parts shipped to the US...

[RAM Engineer]

If all the secret squirrel parts were easily available here in the USA, this gun might be more competitive, sales-wise. Even HK has better support for their guns here than Beretta has for the PX4. I guess its a catch-22. Low sales spurs low support which spurs lower sales.

[LangdonTactical]

I went looking for some of the parts you mentioned and found the trigger group here (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-trigger-group-special-competition-/). It's labeled only for the 9x21 IMI and .40S&W so I'm unsure if it would work with the 9x19 we all use here or if they didn't bother to label it as such since they can't sell stuff for military calibers in Italy.

This is mostly for others since you probably already know this, but here (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/store/accessori-per-armi/pistole/accessori/#gm=Model-PX4-Full-Size&mpp=24) is the section with all the special PX4 parts. Sounds like they use a low friction coating called DLC (Diamond Like Coating) that supposedly does stuff similar to NP3. The locking block (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-dlc-central-block-device/) they sell is especially labeled with the DLC coating. The neatest part I see there is the 90 series style safety levers for the PX4 (Beretta Leve Sicura Tipo "F" R.P. (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-safety-levers-type-f-r-p-/)) as I don't really like the style the PX4 comes with.

I wonder if I could get these parts shipped to the US...

Yup, that is all the stuff they showed me at Beretta, but also on a computer screen. Likely the trigger kit would work in any of the guns, but remember that 9mm or 9 Luger is not legal to own in Italy, so they only use 9x21mm.

I have not seen the locking block kit. That is pretty cool as well.

[LangdonTactical]

Today I put another 639 rounds through gun number 2. 500 of WinClean and the other 139 were my 147 reloads. That brings the total to just over 3k with no issues at all. Today the 639 rounds where fired in just under an hour and a half. Let's just say she got a little hot. Like, be careful where you touch the gun or it will blister you (not as bad as an M&P, some of you know what I am talking about).

So far so good. Hopefully I will hit 4K in this gun before the week is out.

Cheers

[GJM]

Ernest, you going to bring out a "EL edition" PX4 Compact, with all the mods done, so folks don't have to chase all the bits and pieces? (Cougar hammer spring, mag release, slide stop, G with small levers, HD sights, and maybe some of the Italian swag) Oh, and a bottle of preferred lube.

[Clobbersaurus]

^^^ GJM brings up a good point. Ernest, what type of lube did you use on your PX4's?

I have to admit this thread has me considering a full size PX4. The full size models are prohibited up here without an aftermarket barrel to meet barrel length restrictions. They are available though.

[LostDuke]

I
P. E. Kelley has a review on the Grand Power P45, another rotating barrel pistol https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16688-Grand-Power-P45acp-Big-Bullet-Blaster

He had some stoppages with the gun and at around the 9:50 mark into the video, he mentions the factory's solution to the problem was to lube the barrel where it contacts the breach face. Since most of us have little, if any, experience with pistols with a rotating barrel, I suspect most of us wouldn't think to lube the gun there, but it makes sense that it would need it. It even seems logical an otherwise properly lubed gun could even malfunction without lube there which would be unique to a rotating barreled gun.

I have a GP6 9mm which is a previous model of the gun reviewed, if I am not mistaken. Bought it to try it out on competitions, the gun had a good reputation in Europe and I did not have any gun that I could shoot in ESP. It turned out I hit the jackpot, the gun is light, extremely accurate, and with just a little amount of lube has been flawless. I didn't shoot it much in competition because after a school massacre in CT they banned high capacity magazines and I only had two, and could not find ten rounders. Now is in a safe in long term storage, but this too one day will end.

I am really intrigued about the Storm now, will most likely buy a compact.

[LangdonTactical]

Ernest, you going to bring out a "EL edition" PX4 Compact, with all the mods done, so folks don't have to chase all the bits and pieces? (Cougar hammer spring, mag release, slide stop, G with small levers, HD sights, and maybe some of the Italian swag) Oh, and a bottle of preferred lube.

That is a great idea George. Something to consider for sure.

[Edwin]

That is a great idea George. Something to consider for sure.

Add a fiber optic front sight option and I'll take a full size and compact one.

[Trooper224]

I sense the PX4 may become the next pistol of the moment here at PF. ;)

[Kyle Reese]

I sense the PX4 may become the next pistol of the moment here at PF. ;)

I think you're right. :)

[breakingtime91]

:( here I was thinking glock was gonna make a come back because of the gadget, now I'm sneaking peaks at px4 compacts even though I know its better to master my 19...

[Irelander]

:( here I was thinking glock was gonna make a come back because of the gadget, now I'm sneaking peaks at px4 compacts even though I know its better to master my 19...

Same here...

[JR1572]

I sense the PX4 may become the next pistol of the moment here at PF. ;)

Ugh.

JR1572

[breakingtime91]

Same here...

be strong brother, we can hold out

[LittleLebowski]

I sense the PX4 may become the next pistol of the moment here at PF. ;)

I will just wait 6-8 months outside GJM's house and he'll toss his PX4 Compact in the trash as he heads to the gunshop for his next new love :D

[GJM]

I will just wait 6-8 months outside GJM's house and he'll toss his PX4 Compact in the trash as he heads to the gunshop for his next new love :D

On this one, I am just enjoying Ernest ringing the thing out.

In any event, Darryl gave me some gun advice last winter over lunch at Chico's. He said it is "just like redheads. You may date a CZ, but you will marry an HK."

[Trooper224]

Okay, I'll admit it. I took Mrs. Awesome shooting tonight and I looked at a PX4.

[jdm033056]

First post, I came here from a link posted on the Beretta Forum. Love my PX4

http://i41.tinypic.com/312tq9k.jpg

[Eastex]

My first post here as well, loving all the info I'm getting but this post has drawn me out,
"In any event, Darryl gave me some gun advice last winter over lunch at Chico's. He said it is "just like redheads. You may date a CZ, but you will marry an HK.""
I'm married to a redhead, do I get a P-07 or the VP9?

[DiscipulusArmorum]

Any thoughts on the PX4 vs. the Sig SP2022 for a "budget" gun to try out DA/SA?

I had this thread in the back of my mind when I finished up at the indoor range today and looked the display cases over. Sure enough, they had a PX4 compact. Trigger was sweet, smoother and lighter in both DA/SA than the HKs I've rented. Real close to picking up one of those $419 ones on Gunbroker.

[Kyle Reese]

Any thoughts on the PX4 vs. the Sig SP2022 for a "budget" gun to try out DA/SA?

I had this thread in the back of my mind when I finished up at the indoor range today and looked the display cases over. Sure enough, they had a PX4 compact. Trigger was sweet, smoother and lighter in both DA/SA than the HKs I've rented. Real close to picking up one of those $419 ones on Gunbroker.

That's a tough call. Flip a coin? Both are great guns for the money.

[David S.]

The Sig 2340 was the first gun I ever bought. The SIGPro is a great gun that should be selling a lot more than it is.

Try to shoot both before you buy. See if there is a subjective reason to choose one or the other. For instance, a lot of people have a problem with their thumb riding the slide catch lever of the P-series and SIGPro guns. I certainly did and sold off my SIGPro because I didn't want to fight a grip change.

Other than that, as Fred said, it's probably a coin toss.

[45dotACP]

Sig Pro's are very nice pistols. I liked my 2340 for what it was...a dirt cheap TDA pistol that was way more reliable than it should have been at that price.

I did get to shoot a compact PX4 not too long ago though, and it was a very easy pistol to shoot well. I turned in some excellent five shot groups with it and I'm certain with a little work on the trigger (reduced power hammer spring eh?) it would be an exceptionally shootable pistol. Even just as a box stock pistol it's a nice gun. The recoil is definitely a different sensation.

I'm sensing I'm about to be on a Beretta kick, but I was always leery of the rotating barrel design though, so that's why a full size 92 is more likely to follow me home than a PX4. I'd be interested to see a few more people run 2,000 round challenges on it.

[Trooper224]

The local shooting range has one for rent so I'll give it a try next time I'm there. I'm not in the market for any new hardware at the moment, but my interest is piqued.

[Shipwreck]

Great write up from the original poster. I have owned 3 fullsize PX4s over the years - and a compact PX4 I own now. Great guns. I actually like the feel of the compact PX4 the best

[Irelander]

be strong brother, we can hold out

I probably should not shoot one. Cause I have a feeling if I did I would have to buy one.

I love my Glock 19....I love my Glock 19....I love my Glock 19.....

[Edwin]

Brownells will special order some of the parts from Beretta Italy but at this time, the only part they can get is the 90 series style safety/decocker levers (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-safety-levers-type-f-r-p-/?OrderItemId=1086759). Price is $55.99.

I also got my hands on the special trigger group (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-trigger-group-special-competition-/?OrderItemId=1086757) somehow for a great price.

Guess I should get a PX4. XD

[The Apprentice]

How does the trigger compare to a 92 series gun with a d spring after you swapped in the one out of the couger. I get that its a nice trigger but are they similar in take up, travel, and reset or does it have a different feel to it.

[LangdonTactical]

Brownells will special order some of the parts from Beretta Italy but at this time, the only part they can get is the 90 series style safety/decocker levers (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-safety-levers-type-f-r-p-/?OrderItemId=1086759). Price is $55.99.

I also got my hands on the special trigger group (http://estore.beretta.com/it-eu/beretta-px4-trigger-group-special-competition-/?OrderItemId=1086757) somehow for a great price.

Guess I should get a PX4. XD

That is cool stuff, those are the parts I want to try. I hope to chat with Beretta next week about picking some of those special parts up.

[Edwin]

That is cool stuff, those are the parts I want to try. I hope to chat with Beretta next week about picking some of those special parts up.

Let me know if they can't deliver as you can have my parts at cost for your testing needs. I'll grab them whenever you put out your PX4 EL edition.

[LangdonTactical]

Let me know if they can't deliver as you can have my parts at cost for your testing needs. I'll grab them whenever you put out your PX4 EL edition.

Lets see what they say next week. I think there are some really good ideas flowing at this point. The best way to do this is have Beretta Italy build the guns with all right parts already in place. That will keep the price at the right place to meet what I think the market would like and pay for.

[GJM]

Lets see what they say next week. I think there are some really good ideas flowing at this point. The best way to do this is have Beretta Italy build the guns with all right parts already in place. That will keep the price at the right place to meet what I think the market would like and pay for.

+100

[Navyguns]

Thanks to all the good feedback about the PX4 Storm compact, I picked one up tonight. I shot one about two weeks ago and then this thread started. Boom, the rest is history. Some quick observations: The pistol is robustly built, almost seems over built. Not a bad thing at all but compared to a Glock the Storm clearly has more material and thicker parts everywhere. This would explain where some of the weight comes from. The barrel is beefy. The fit and finish is very good. Well thought out pistol.

The slide mounted safety/decocker. It is a new pistol but I don't see how these levers could get moved to safe position unless done on purpose. They are stiff and the arc of motion doesn't lend itself to casual brushing to safe when overhand slide manipulations are performed. However, this is just my initial thoughts. As a lefty one of the attractions to this pistol was the slide stop on the right side. It is located where I can actually use it. My only gripe is the back-straps are a bitch to change.

[mag318]

I sent mine off to Robar along with a set of Stealth levers for their NP3 electroless nickel finish. This is the 2'nd one they've done for me and to me the PX4 Compact is a perfect CCW.

[Willard]

Lets see what they say next week. I think there are some really good ideas flowing at this point. The best way to do this is have Beretta Italy build the guns with all right parts already in place. That will keep the price at the right place to meet what I think the market would like and pay for.

I read much & post little. I hope this comes to fruition.

[Hizzie]

Lets see what they say next week. I think there are some really good ideas flowing at this point. The best way to do this is have Beretta Italy build the guns with all right parts already in place. That will keep the price at the right place to meet what I think the market would like and pay for.

I'd buy one - as long as the advertised specs were the specs, not just a guideline.

[Colt191145lover]

I got to play with one this morning at a gun shop in town , very interesting gun! Trigger pull on that example was super smooth. If I didn't just get a CZ P07 to try out for AIWB carry I would probably pick one up... that may still happen anyway;)

[Navyguns]

OK, so I now have just a little over 2K through the second gun. A 1,000 of that was Winchester WinClean (known for not being the most reliable ammo) and now a second PX4 has passed the 2,000 round test. So far the best hammer spring is the Cougar "D" spring. Gun has proved to be super accurate with everything I shoot in it and how I have a little over 6K through two guns and they have both been 100% reliable. Interestingly they both run the Winchester WinClean better than my 92 does. The WinClean gives me fits in the 92 pretty often. The PX4 Compact not only runs it well, it seems to shoot it very accurately also.

I have also heard that there are even more parts for the PX4 than I knew about. Turns out Beretta Italy has spent quite a bit of time developing some accessories for these guns. There are 4 different versions of the safety levers in different sizes. There are steel guide rod kits and even an improved trigger group. Basically it is a whole hammer and sear group that just drops into the frame that includes a better hammer spring. Both DA and SA are improved with this kit. I am trying to see if I can get my hands on one to try. This kit includes a stiffer cage that houses everything as well as plated parts for a smoother action.

3685

So the project continues. So far this little gun is making me happy and doing everything I would expect it to do.


Do you have a part number for the Cougar D spring? Brownell's has a few different springs listed for the Cougar.

[f308gt4]

Do you have a part number for the Cougar D spring? Brownell's has a few different springs listed for the Cougar.

I got one from David Olhasso's website a while ago. Just checked and it is not in stock on the website. But, from the first post of this thread, it looks like a WC Chrome Silicon 12lb spring would be the same.

[Little Creek]

Lets see what they say next week. I think there are some really good ideas flowing at this point. The best way to do this is have Beretta Italy build the guns with all right parts already in place. That will keep the price at the right place to meet what I think the market would like and pay for.

Please make them ambidextrous. Since 20% of shooters are LH, they could sell 25% more pistols. I for one would buy an ambi one designed by you.

[LangdonTactical]

Please make them ambidextrous. Since 20% of shooters are LH, they could sell 25% more pistols. I for one would buy an ambi one designed by you.

That is a good point. Wonder why Glock still has not made their guns ambi?

[Navyguns]

I am curious as to why gun companies haven't adopted a rotating barrel lock up action like the Storm? The Arsenal Strike One uses a proprietry barrel locking process. I know the Browning style works and works well but it would be nice to see some innovation. I think gun companies have gotten away from being truly innovative. For example, the Glock gen. 4 isn't innovative, its a slight evolution from gen. 3. I personally like the G4 over the G3 but its still a Glock.

I like that Beretta is willing to do something different; instead of basically copying each other. The Storm and 92 series are clearly different weapons from the rest of the crowd.

[HCM]

I am curious as to why gun companies haven't adopted a rotating barrel lock up action like the Storm? The Arsenal Strike One uses a proprietry barrel locking process. I know the Browning style works and works well but it would be nice to see some innovation. I think gun companies have gotten away from being truly innovative. For example, the Glock gen. 4 isn't innovative, its a slight evolution from gen. 3. I personally like the G4 over the G3 but its still a Glock.

I like that Beretta is willing to do something different; instead of basically copying each other. The Storm and 92 series are clearly different weapons from the rest of the crowd.

I wish you the best of luck with the PX4. Beretta may have finally cracked the code on rotating barrels but keep in mind the rotating barrel locking system has been around for over 100 years without much success. I'm a huge fan of the 92 series but the 92 locking system is straight out of the Walther P-38. There's not much new under the sun.

[orionz06]

I am curious as to why gun companies haven't adopted a rotating barrel lock up action like the Storm? The Arsenal Strike One uses a proprietry barrel locking process. I know the Browning style works and works well but it would be nice to see some innovation. I think gun companies have gotten away from being truly innovative. For example, the Glock gen. 4 isn't innovative, its a slight evolution from gen. 3. I personally like the G4 over the G3 but its still a Glock.

I like that Beretta is willing to do something different; instead of basically copying each other. The Storm and 92 series are clearly different weapons from the rest of the crowd.

The Glock is a proven design. Given the use of the product they have no reason to innovate for the sake of innovation. Innovation will happen when a company is trying to gain some ground, like Arsenal (though I don't know how it works, going on the above post).

[Navyguns]

Shot 155 rounds today in my PX4 compact. I shoot this pistol better than my G19G4 and I am happy with the purchase. The recoil impulse is a little different feeling and the front sight tracks very flat.

[Gary1911A1]

Lets see what they say next week. I think there are some really good ideas flowing at this point. The best way to do this is have Beretta Italy build the guns with all right parts already in place. That will keep the price at the right place to meet what I think the market would like and pay for.

Add my name to the list of people interested in buying one with the desired parts installed. They could just add the Couger Spring in the package if they are nervous of a light trigger.

[LittleLebowski]

This article will be updated in time with whatever Ernest observes (he and I worked on this together). Nothing new to folks in this thread but I tried to package it all up:

Article (http://goo.gl/R7qUcm)

[THellURider]

Like many others, this thread has made me curious enough to maybe try it out.

I got a line on 1 with 2 15 round mags, and 2 17 round mags, a Bladetech holster and all the factory stuff for $450 - thoughts? Going rate with 2 mags seems to be $400.

Flip side is I have 2 gadgets coming... and there may be a special run of these set up the way we want one day...

[LangdonTactical]

Like many others, this thread has made me curious enough to maybe try it out.

I got a line on 1 with 2 15 round mags, and 2 17 round mags, a Bladetech holster and all the factory stuff for $450 - thoughts? Going rate with 2 mags seems to be $400.

Flip side is I have 2 gadgets coming... and there may be a special run of these set up the way we want one day...

Where is that gun? If you don't want it someone else will, maybe me? I have good friends asking me to set some guns up for them and that would be a hell of a starter package for $450.

[TCinVA]

I had the chance to try Fred's Langdon-ized PX4 this weekend...it's nice.

[THellURider]

Where is that gun? If you don't want it someone else will, maybe me? I have good friends asking me to set some guns up for them and that would be a hell of a starter package for $450.

Done.

I'll grab it and try the whole idea out, if it doesn't work for me I'll let ya know.

[LangdonTactical]

This article will be updated in time with whatever Ernest observes (he and I worked on this together). Nothing new to folks in this thread but I tried to package it all up:

Article (http://goo.gl/R7qUcm)

OK, I will do a little bit of an up date for you guys.

Another trip to the range today, it has been almost a week since I shot gun #2. Another 300 rounds today and still not a single issue. I am still caught off guard every time I shoot this gun as to how flat it shoots. Again today the first rounds left me with the thought in my head of "wow this thing is flat".

I am sure I will be well over 4K by the end of the week. At this point I will be surprised if there are any issues.

On another note. I did play with opening up the mag well just before the last range session a week ago. I did not mention it until now as i was wanted to see how it did for at least two range sessions. The mag well area on the PX4 is not bad for a stock gun, but as always they can be better. I have opened the mag well up a little on both of the guns I am shooting. The side to side area is not bad and considering it is a double stack gun, that makes that area easy. The front to back on the PX4 does not leave a lot of room for error and at first glance there is not much you can do. The issue is the replaceable back straps are held in place with a spring wire device that leaves a metal piece of wire across the back of the mag well. I have noted that the back straps are not easy to take off even after that spring wire is removed. I mean you need to use a screw driver to pry it off the gun.

So I decided to see how it would work if I left it off the gun all together. Doing so has allowed me to open up that back side of the mag well quite a bit. That little bit of sanding at the back side of the mag well has made a huge difference in my reloads and I am very happy with the results.

So now, almost 1000 rounds later, I have not seen any issues with leaving that spring wire out of the gun. Not saying that you should take it out and throw it away, but so far so good.

Hope this is helpful and more to follow soon.

[GJM]

"tinkerer" should be, or likely is, your middle name

[LangdonTactical]

I keep forgetting to post information about weight. I put several guns on the scale to see how things added up. Here is what I got on my postal scale, empty gun with no magazine;

Glock 19 = 24.2 Oz
Px4 Compact = 26.8 Oz
92 Compact = 31.5 Oz
Sig 229 (Non rail .357) = 29.8 Oz
M9A1 = 35.3 Oz

Just some points to note for those of you looking at weight as a consideration.

[taadski]

"tinkerer" should be, or likely is, your middle name



Pot, meet Mr. Kettle….




:D

[GJM]

Pot, meet Mr. Kettle….




:D

I think it is great what EL is doing with this project. The difference between Ernest and me, though, is he has the skills to do it.

[Hizzie]

Lets see what they say next week. I think there are some really good ideas flowing at this point. The best way to do this is have Beretta Italy build the guns with all right parts already in place. That will keep the price at the right place to meet what I think the market would like and pay for.

So how'd the conversation go?

[LangdonTactical]

So how'd the conversation go?

The conversation went really well. It is August and I think all of Italy is on vacation for the month. But we did make progress. Nothing is set in stone yet, but I think it might just end up being something that happens.

[LangdonTactical]

To bring everyone up to speed here. Another 413 rounds through gun #2 today. All 147 grain FMJ reloads (Zero 147 with TiteGroup). Gun was flawless once again.

LittleLebowski also shot 270 rounds through gun #1 today. He was shooting some commercial reloads of some type except for the two mags of carry ammo I gave him to shoot, 147 SXT, it was time to cycle it through those.

Yesterday I shot 433 rounds through gun #2 as well, also no issues.

That brings gun #1 to just over 4,500 rounds and gun #2 to 4,186 rounds. Not bad, as the only stoppage I have had so far was a FTF on gun #1 with WinClean. The round went on the second strike and again I don't blame the gun. I have seen this a lot with WinClean and the lead free primers that come in them.

At this rate I will break 5k in gun #2 before the weekend is over.

[Whirlwind06]

Hi I have been following this thread for a couple weeks, since it was crossed posted on the beretta forum. Nice to see some PX4 love!
I have the sub compact and full size. When I first got the full size it seemed more G19 size wise ( barrel lenth, width etc) the grip is longer but not by a whole lot. I wonder if it's possible to chop the grip on a full-size... Anyways I'm thinking of trading the SC for a compact now.

[LittleLebowski]

I put 270 rounds through one of Langdon's PX4s today and compared it visually and during shooting with my G17 and G19.

The PX4 is the DA/SA equivalent of the G19. That's it, that's all she wrote. I put commercial reloads through it, SD ammo, some other stuff.

The gun is very easy to shoot. It carries extremely well, felt better than my G19. The controls just work. I want one. I have not shot anything but Glocks since 2007.

[JTQ]

That brings gun #1 to just over 4,500 rounds and gun #2 to 4,186 rounds. Not bad, as the only stoppage I have had so far was a FTF on gun #1 with WinClean. The round went on the second strike and again I don't blame the gun. I have seen this a lot with WinClean and the lead free primers that come in them.

At this rate I will break 5k in gun #2 before the weekend is over.
Where is lubrication/cleaning within all those rounds? Are these all with just the initial lubrication. I know you were talking about going a while without lube, but I think I lost track if you actually lubed/cleaned the guns anywhere along the way.

[THellURider]

Picked mine up today. Curious to see what how I like it.

[LittleLebowski]

Where is lubrication/cleaning within all those rounds? Are these all with just the initial lubrication. I know you were talking about going a while without lube, but I think I lost track if you actually lubed/cleaned the guns anywhere along the way.

I think a light a wipedown and more Lucas Gun oil (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000IG20RM/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B000IG20RM&linkCode=as2&tag=ratio07-20) every 2k rounds roughly, is what Ernest told me today.

[LangdonTactical]

Where is lubrication/cleaning within all those rounds? Are these all with just the initial lubrication. I know you were talking about going a while without lube, but I think I lost track if you actually lubed/cleaned the guns anywhere along the way.

Yup, what LittleLebowski said, Gun #2 has been light cleaned twice and not for about 2K now. Gun #1 has been cleaned three times total. Both guns pass the 2,000 round test with no issues. I have been using the Lucas Gun Lube, mainly because someone gave me a bottle, so it was free. Any good lube should work I would think.

[Dave Williams]

This gun is at the top of the list of Berettas at Buds. Wonder if it due to this thread? Also great blurb about the gun on the Buds site claims the gun will easily go 100K rounds with no parts breakage!��

[LangdonTactical]

Just another quick update for people that are following my progress here. As of today I have 5,586 rounds through gun #2. So far it is still 100% and running strong. Not a single stoppage of any type.

I have struggled with the HD sights some as the Front Sight is so large it makes it hard to be precise at speed on smaller targets. But that has nothing to do with the gun really. I would like the front sight to be a little thinner and believe that would help the shootablity of the gun quite a bit.

Today I also took the trigger work just a little farther. I took a Wilson Combat 12 lb chrome silicon spring for a 92 and cut almost 3 coils off of it. That spring is a little longer than the standard hammer spring that comes in the PX4. So I basically cut it down to almost the same length as the factory spring. The DA is now well under 6 lbs and I shot 350 rounds through it today with both Federal Primers and factory Winchester ammo. No issues at all and I am really happy with the feel of the DA.

So far so good!

[GJM]

Ernest, is the issue that the HD sights are regulated for drive the dot, and the large front sight covers your spot on the target? If so, if you shaved the front sight down to just above the top of the orange ring, would that give you another 10 or 15/1000 and allow you to use tip of the front sight, so you are not obscuring the target?

[LangdonTactical]

Point of impact is not an issue for me with 147 grain bullets. Past 10 yards the gun hits where it is supposed to hit or close enough. It shoots to the dot at 5 yards when shooting 2" dots, but I find almost everything does that when you are that close and have taller sights.

I really think it is an issue of the size of the front sight and the rear notch. There is very little light gap with that combo, and I have a mid focus for a lot of my shooting at speed. I mean I look through the sights, but my focus is somewhere between the front sight and the target. Because of this I am not seeing the imperfections in sight alignment that I would see with more light gap. Which means I am not making the auto corrections that I would normally make. I have thinned down the front sight by a little over .10" and that seems to have helped quit a bit.

[JTQ]

I have struggled with the HD sights some as the Front Sight is so large it makes it hard to be precise at speed on smaller targets.

Were the stock sights useful?

[Alpha Sierra]

No experience with the compact, but I shot the fullsize on a few different occasions for a few hundred rounds. I always thought it was a very nice pistol and a fine choice, if one keeps on top of keeping it cleaned and lubed.

I believe one of the reasons that it's reputation suffers is from Todd's stories of Canadian cops showing up to a class with mallets because it would predictably lock up around 300 rounds. IIRC, there's more than one PD who has noted this issue with the PX4.

What's different about the Compact that it seems to run reliably? Isn't it the same rotating barrel lockup as the full size?

Said another way, whatever the issues were with the full size are they now fixed then?

[f308gt4]

Today I also took the trigger work just a little farther. I took a Wilson Combat 12 lb chrome silicon spring for a 92 and cut almost 3 coils off of it. That spring is a little longer than the standard hammer spring that comes in the PX4. So I basically cut it down to almost the same length as the factory spring. The DA is now well under 6 lbs and I shot 350 rounds through it today with both Federal Primers and factory Winchester ammo. No issues at all and I am really happy with the feel of the DA.

So far so good!

Question- How does the Cougar D spring compare to the 12lb chrome silicon spring? Are they equivalent? I currently have a Cougar D spring in my PX4, but I did order a 12lb chrome silicon spring. Haven't installed it yet, and was wondering if there is a difference.

[HCM]

J
What's different about the Compact that it seems to run reliably? Isn't it the same rotating barrel lockup as the full size?

Said another way, whatever the issues were with the full size are they now fixed then?

I'm curious about this as well. Was there an issue that was unique to the full-size guns or a particular caliber such as the 40 caliber models? Has Beretta made some minor engineering changes which have helped reliability and they are just not advertising it? Like the way Glock made changes to the GEN 4 but never issued a recall or really notified anyone. They just came out with some improved parts.

Another question would be are there any maintenance or lubrication tips specific to the PX 4 and it's rotating barrel? I read something about lubrication applied to the rear/chamber end of the barrel seemed to improve reliability and function. Not somewhere we would normally lube a modern service pistol but given the rotating barrel it makes sense.

[JTQ]

Pure speculation on my part. I suspect Beretta has made no changes to make the guns work better. I suspect there is no difference between the compact and full size that would make the compact more reliable.

A couple of points from Earnest Langdon earlier in this thread…


I was just in Canada at the same range where Todd gets the stores from. I asked Rob about that specifically, he said those guys don't lube their guns at all.

I also know that if people have a gun issued to them that they don't like and are looking to get rid of it, they will make it look bad. I have seen it many times over the years. If a department decides they want to get rid of brand X gun, you can bet they will start having problems.
Over several years doing Beretta PX4 research on the 'net, I can't recall any individual user that has claimed significant problems with their PX4. I do recall a lot of luke warm comments like GJM's…


They are accurate, have been reliable, good triggers and soft shooting.

Then, the negatives. Grip is slippery, which EL has addressed through stippling. Even the low profile G levers seem sharp, which perhaps could be addressed by dehorning. HD sights regulate on my .40, but hit low on my 9. Slide seems slippery. Magazines feel cheesy compared to the 92 equivalents. Removing pieces to change mainspring feels like someone with my engineering ability designed that part of the system -- way cheesy. Feels big for its size.

The lube issue you mention, that I excerpted from Patrick E. Kelley's review of another rotating barrel gun, earlier in this thread may be an issue since I, and as you mentioned most would not think to put lube there.

I think ultimately the issue is small sample size. As GJM mentioned earlier in this thread, even if this thread doubles sales in the PX4, they are still going to be small. There just aren't a lot of folks using them. I take that back. There are probably a lot of "average Joe's" shooting them, but there aren't a bunch of "tactical experts" using the PX4 to report back on how they work when maintained properly, or even improperly. With the popularity of striker fired guns, and the general hate for slide mounted safety/decockers you constantly read of on forums, and even with Beretta's announced APX, you may never see a bunch of folks using the PX4. I suspect if you really want to know, you'll have to roll the dice and find out for yourself. I'm in the same boat, and may find myself doing so.

[45dotACP]

I'm a sucker for a 6lb DA pull...mostly why I like Beretta in the first place. This thread is making my wallet give me the stank eye

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[GardoneVT]

Pure speculation on my part. I suspect Beretta has made no changes to make the guns work better. I suspect there is no difference between the compact and full size that would make the compact more reliable.

A couple of points from Earnest Langdon earlier in this thread…


Over several years doing Beretta PX4 research on the 'net, I can't recall any individual user that has claimed significant problems with their PX4. I do recall a lot of luke warm comments like GJM's…



The lube issue you mention, that I excerpted from Patrick E. Kelley's review of another rotating barrel gun, earlier in this thread may be an issue since I, and as you mentioned most would not think to put lube there.

I think ultimately the issue is small sample size. As GJM mentioned earlier in this thread, even if this thread doubles sales in the PX4, they are still going to be small. There just aren't a lot of folks using them. I take that back. There are probably a lot of "average Joe's" shooting them, but there aren't a bunch of "tactical experts" using the PX4 to report back on how they work when maintained properly, or even improperly. With the popularity of striker fired guns, and the general hate for slide mounted safety/decockers you constantly read of on forums, and even with Beretta's announced APX, you may never see a bunch of folks using the PX4. I suspect if you really want to know, you'll have to roll the dice and find out for yourself. I'm in the same boat, and may find myself doing so.
Part of the problem is Cleetii/Veteran bias against the 92.

When I still shot my 92 regularly after an RSO shift , lots of the old timers kept telling me I'd eat the slide one day.Add in the occasional vet whose only experience with Beretta was a beat up, DoD issue gun with Acme parts and piss poor maintenance and you get the general perception today.

Which is "Beretta OK, Glock/Sig/XD better." The DA trigger doesn't help. I've only seen one shooter in my time at the local range fire a DA/SA gun with the hammer down-me. I even saw a fellow "RSO" tote an M9 with the hammer back in his SERPA.

[Kyle Reese]

Part of the problem is Cleetii/Veteran bias against the 92.

When I still shot my 92 regularly after an RSO shift , lots of the old timers kept telling me I'd eat the slide one day.Add in the occasional vet whose only experience with Beretta was a beat up, DoD issue gun with Acme parts and piss poor maintenance and you get the general perception today.

Which is "Beretta OK, Glock/Sig/XD better." The DA trigger doesn't help. I've only seen one shooter in my time at the local range fire a DA/SA gun with the hammer down-me. I even saw a fellow "RSO" tote an M9 with the hammer back in his SERPA.

I don't get why people are so afraid of that double action shot, but I am biased...

[texasaggie2005]

The DA trigger doesn't help. I've only seen one shooter in my time at the local range fire a DA/SA gun with the hammer down-me.

True story. I went shooting with my boss a couple of years ago. He pulled out a pristine Inox 92, and proceeded to shoot in SA the entire time. When I shot it in DA, he stopped me and asked if I had broken his pistol. He didn't even know it would shoot DA & SA. He claimed to have owned it for over a decade.

[GJM]

If my buddies got to carry a M&P as a duty gun, and I was stuck with a DA/SA gun, I would be pissed. If it was a Beretta, even more pissed. And, if it was the economy version of the 92, namely a PX4, I would be tempted to go detective so I could carry concealed. Doesn't everyone know the PX4 is the reason the Betetta shooting team quit.

[45dotACP]

If my buddies got to carry a M&P as a duty gun, and I was stuck with a DA/SA gun, I would be pissed. If it was a Beretta, even more pissed. And, if it was the economy version of the 92, namely a PX4, I would be tempted to go detective so I could carry concealed. Doesn't everyone know the PX4 is the reason the Betetta shooting team quit.
If I were shooting an Elite II and the bosses said I had to shoot a PX4, I would probably break some shit.

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[GardoneVT]

If I were shooting an Elite II and the bosses said I had to shoot a PX4, I would probably break some shit.

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

Not trying to be snarky, but is there some documentation or commentary from the team to this effect?

[HCM]

Not trying to be snarky, but is there some documentation or commentary from the team to this effect?

I recall Todd G mentioning it a few times.

[LangdonTactical]

Were the stock sights useful?
The Stock sights where not bad. Trijicon makes standard size night sights, that may end up being something for me to try as well.

[LangdonTactical]

Not trying to be snarky, but is there some documentation or commentary from the team to this effect?

Yeah, I would like to see that as well, seeing as I was on the team for just a little bit :)

[45dotACP]

Sorry to disappoint, I only ever heard tell from the PF grapevine :) Mr. Langdon would probably be more qualified to speak to anything that actually did happen.

Also I probably wouldn't break shit ;)

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[Trooper224]

True story. I went shooting with my boss a couple of years ago. He pulled out a pristine Inox 92, and proceeded to shoot in SA the entire time. When I shot it in DA, he stopped me and asked if I had broken his pistol. He didn't even know it would shoot DA & SA. He claimed to have owned it for over a decade.

A while back I showed up for quarterly range qual with one of my 92's. My agency allows us to carry whatever we want off duty and doesn't require qualification, but I always qualify with my non-issued guns, as I like having at least one piece of paper that ties it to the agency for CYA purposes. One of the captain's golden boys had been recently omini-dominied as a new range officer. He's far from a gun guy but he's loved by El Jeffe whereas I am certainly not. :D I let him shoot the 92 and when the trigger transitioned from DA to SA, he got a shocked look on his face. He'd never handled a TDA pistol and thought he'd broken my gun.

[LSP552]

A while back I showed up for quarterly range qual with one of my 92's. My agency allows us to carry whatever we want off duty and doesn't require qualification, but I always qualify with my non-issued guns, as I like having at least one piece of paper that ties it to the agency for CYA purposes. One of the captain's golden boys had been recently omini-dominied as a new range officer. He's far from a gun guy but he's loved by El Jeffe whereas I am certainly not. :D I let him shoot the 92 and when the trigger transitioned from DA to SA, he got a shocked look on his face. He'd never handled a TDA pistol and thought he'd broken my gun.

I understand. LSP once had an anointed Firearms Training Unit supervisor with similar qualifications......

[GJM]

post# 18

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10287-PX4-full-size/page2

That presumes that the agencies simply passed without evaluating the guns. That was not the case. The one large agency I know of that did adopt the PX4 is the same agency that first introduced me to the "mallet solution," in a class in front of plenty of students... and one of our current Staff members. Also, as mentioned previously, the entire stable of Beretta's paid pistol shooting team, given a choice between shooting the PX4 or resigning, resigned based on their actual hands-on experience with the gun.

[LangdonTactical]

post# 18

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10287-PX4-full-size/page2

That presumes that the agencies simply passed without evaluating the guns. That was not the case. The one large agency I know of that did adopt the PX4 is the same agency that first introduced me to the "mallet solution," in a class in front of plenty of students... and one of our current Staff members. Also, as mentioned previously, the entire stable of Beretta's paid pistol shooting team, given a choice between shooting the PX4 or resigning, resigned based on their actual hands-on experience with the gun.


I don't know anything about this to be honest. I was never sent a PX4 to evaluate when I was on the Elite Team. In fact I started the "Elite Team". My question would be who was on the Elite team at the time that resigned? I don't know? I know I stole Gordon Carroll away from Beretta to shoot for Smith & Wesson, who else was on the team? Rob Haught maybe? Dave Harrington? I will have to ask them and see what they say about that as well as Todd Green. I just don't know the details or remember who was there and when.

[45dotACP]

I do have a question: Are there any options for aftermarket triggers? The standard trigger seems a little wide, and my preference is to a slightly thinner trigger.

Or is the answer more of a "suck it up buttercup" kind of thing? :D

[kcevans]

I'm sure you have definitive proof of this, or just more here say concerning the PX4 line ??????


If my buddies got to carry a M&P as a duty gun, and I was stuck with a DA/SA gun, I would be pissed. If it was a Beretta, even more pissed. And, if it was the economy version of the 92, namely a PX4, I would be tempted to go detective so I could carry concealed. Doesn't everyone know the PX4 is the reason the Betetta shooting team quit.

[GJM]

I'm sure you have definitive proof of this, or just more here say concerning the PX4 line ??????

As a guy that likes DA/SA guns, I was mostly joking with the whole post. However, Todd did say that exact thing about the Beretta team in a PX4 thread, that I participated in. See the thread link above.

[JSGlock34]

I have a PX4 .40, and it is an extremely soft shooting .40. Bill Wilson put me onto it.

This thread may cause PX4 sales to spike, doubling from 2 a week to 4. I told my wife this is a very good thing, and people ought to buy PX4 pistols to get good karma. When you consider all the crazy good 92 variants out this year, getting a PX4 is like going to the Beretta pound and adopting a rescue mutt.


This gun is at the top of the list of Berettas at Buds. Wonder if it due to this thread? Also great blurb about the gun on the Buds site claims the gun will easily go 100K rounds with no parts breakage!��

I'm chuckling at this turn of events. I can't help but imagine that heads are exploding over at Beretta. They only seem to figure out how to market their guns after they decide to roll out a new one. Got some great Beretta 92 variants (Elite, Vertec, 92G-SD)? Nah, the future is plastics. Lets discontinue those - team members please pick up your new PX4. PX4 didn't catch on? Maybe those 92 guys knew what they were talking about...lets go back to the 92 series (WC Brig Tac, M9A3). Hey, wait, someone likes the PX4? Too bad we've got the APX coming out...

In all seriousness, does the PX4 have a future in the Beretta lineup with the pending introduction of the APX?

[HCM]

post# 18

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?10287-PX4-full-size/page2

That presumes that the agencies simply passed without evaluating the guns. That was not the case. The one large agency I know of that did adopt the PX4 is the same agency that first introduced me to the "mallet solution," in a class in front of plenty of students... and one of our current Staff members. Also, as mentioned previously, the entire stable of Beretta's paid pistol shooting team, given a choice between shooting the PX4 or resigning, resigned based on their actual hands-on experience with the gun.


Here is another: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2822-My-issued-PX4-and-my-off-duty-weapon-conundrum&highlight=beretta+team

[GardoneVT]

I'm chuckling at this turn of events. I can't help but imagine that heads are exploding over at Beretta. They only seem to figure out how to market their guns after they decide to roll out a new one. Got some great Beretta 92 variants (Elite, Vertec, 92G-SD)? Nah, the future is plastics. Lets discontinue those - team members please pick up your new PX4. PX4 didn't catch on? Maybe those 92 guys knew what they were talking about...lets go back to the 92 series (WC Brig Tac, M9A3). Hey, wait, someone likes the PX4? Too bad we've got the APX coming out...

In all seriousness, does the PX4 have a future in the Beretta lineup with the pending introduction of the APX?

I doubt Pistol-Forum membership sales are enough to swing their profit margins .If we do, then they sell far fewer handguns then I would guess.

Anyways, the biggest issue Beretta has with sales is the DA pull. May as well sell cap n ball revolvers for all the relevance DA/SA guns have with mainstream shooters nowadays. The APX should fix that, provided it has a trigger weight light enough for Cleetus to hit his Gateway tower at five yards.

[azerious]

Might have to sell the Glock 17 for one of these babies especially after the AIWB re holstering death not too long ago. I just wish the INOX version was $419 :(

[azerious]

Oh, and it appears another guy likes these as well:cool:

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss102/BravoWhiskey/Collections/Screen-Shot-2015-06-09-at-11_44_08-PM-620x337_zpsvtm713u1.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5549/18852688306_b1b654a314.jpg

For those of you who have been under a rock:

Marcus Lutrell "Lone Survivor"

[Alpha Sierra]

Oh, and it appears another guy likes these as well:cool:

http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss102/BravoWhiskey/Collections/Screen-Shot-2015-06-09-at-11_44_08-PM-620x337_zpsvtm713u1.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5549/18852688306_b1b654a314.jpg

For those of you who have been under a rock:

Marcus Lutrell "Lone Survivor"

Well, that settles it. I'm selling everything off for a PX4 because SEAL

[fixer]

Things I've learned about the PX4:

1) They are great guns in every aspect you can measure greatness.
2) Only Beretta nerds know anything about them.
3) Holster selection is better than you think.
4) The 'mallet issue' is more than likely sourced from a spat of a few frozen guns rather than a heat transfer defect in the rotating barrel.

[TCinVA]

Things I've learned about the PX4:

1) They are great guns in every aspect you can measure greatness.
2) Only Beretta nerds know anything about them.
3) Holster selection is better than you think.
4) The 'mallet issue' is more than likely sourced from a spat of a few frozen guns rather than a heat transfer defect in the rotating barrel.

Being LE guns it's also possible they were dramatically under-lubricated. A good many cops don't seem to realize guns need lubrication.

[Navyguns]

In all my years shooting and owning weapons; I don't have the issues that 99% of the inter web gun forum complainers have. I take care of my equipment. I don't abuse them I utilize them as intended. Even in the inevitable zombie apocalypse I would not abuse my weapons. I see so much neglect at the range of ones weapons I rarely buy into the piling on of bashing any gun. I like my PX4 Storm better than my G19. However, either will do the job intended.

[jh9]

Being LE guns it's also possible they were dramatically under-lubricated. A good many cops don't seem to realize guns need lubrication.

Also possibly assembled from a run of barrels or slides on the wrong side of right in terms of tolerance stack. It's likely if all the department's guns came in off the same new contract they could have all gotten Monday barrels/slides. Not an issue you see with guns bought from different distributors spread out over a few years, but can happen with a single bulk order.

Does anyone know if there have been any changes to the dimensions of the barrel, lug or slide? The design has been out a while. It seems very unlikely that there haven't been any rolling product improvements throughout the years. Shaving a few thousands off the lug or adding a few to the width of the track it moves through in the slide could have a pronounced effect on the malfunction in question.

[Alpha Sierra]

Also possibly assembled from a run of barrels or slides on the wrong side of right in terms of tolerance stack.

I've been in manufacturing almost all my adult life and any well designed product will run ALL DAY LONG with a mix of parts on extremes of the their respective tolerance range.

If it won't, it's a crap design and needs to be redone. Period. Full stop.

The old "built on Monday" cliché is also pretty worn out, tired, and not true in my 20 years of mfg and mfg eng experience.

[GardoneVT]

Also possibly assembled from a run of barrels or slides on the wrong side of right in terms of tolerance stack. It's likely if all the department's guns came in off the same new contract they could have all gotten Monday barrels/slides. Not an issue you see with guns bought from different distributors spread out over a few years, but can happen with a single bulk order.

Does anyone know if there have been any changes to the dimensions of the barrel, lug or slide? The design has been out a while. It seems very unlikely that there haven't been any rolling product improvements throughout the years. Shaving a few thousands off the lug or adding a few to the width of the track it moves through in the slide could have a pronounced effect on the malfunction in question.

Another possibility; perhaps the guns were assembled improperly after field strip?

Taking apart a PX4 is easier then a Glock. Definitely NOT the case when putting it back together.For the non-Beretta geeks; the PX4s rotating barrel design uses a removable metal camblock which fits between the barrel and frame. I can easily picture it stumping anyone in uniform untrained dilligently in how to reassemble one.

[Eastex]

Are there any versions on the PX4 that couldn't be converted to the type G decocker?

[Whirlwind06]

Are there any versions on the PX4 that couldn't be converted to the type G decocker?

The D and C models (smooth slide) can't made into a G.

[jh9]

I've been in manufacturing almost all my adult life and any well designed product will run ALL DAY LONG with a mix of parts on extremes of the their respective tolerance range.

If it won't, it's a crap design and needs to be redone. Period. Full stop.

The old "built on Monday" cliché is also pretty worn out, tired, and not true in my 20 years of mfg and mfg eng experience.

It sounds like you're saying tolerance stack isn't a thing. Or that anything that experiences it is a crap design?

I'm not going to argue the point. I'll amend my post to say something like "barrel lug too fat and not in spec but went out the door anyway".

[Alpha Sierra]

It sounds like you're saying tolerance stack isn't a thing. Or that anything that experiences it is a crap design?

I'm saying neither.

It's very simple.

Parts are either dimensionally within tolerance or they are not. If they are all in tolerance, the machine made out of those parts had better work. It doesn't matter which end of the tolerance range each part is.

If the above requirement isn't met, the design is faulty and has to be fixed.


I'm not going to argue the point.
This is my area of subject matter expetise, but feel free to point out if I have made a mistake,

[Jaywalker]

I'm saying neither.

It's very simple.

Parts are either dimensionally within tolerance or they are not. If they are all in tolerance, the machine made out of those parts had better work. It doesn't matter which end of the tolerance range each part is.

If the above requirement isn't met, the design is faulty and has to be fixed.


This is my area of subject matter expetise, but feel free to point out if I have made a mistake,
I agree, and that's from my years as a commander of a Defense Contract Administration unit, with QA and production management responsibility. If tolerances stack to non-functionality, then the engineers assigned tolerances wrongly. I feel the same way about "everybody builds a lemon now and then" as you do about "built on Monday."

[fixer]

Does anyone know if there have been any changes to the dimensions of the barrel, lug or slide? The design has been out a while. It seems very unlikely that there haven't been any rolling product improvements throughout the years. Shaving a few thousands off the lug or adding a few to the width of the track it moves through in the slide could have a pronounced effect on the malfunction in question.


All I know is that the barrel, camblock, and slide are in fact different than the ill fated cougar. Beretta forum has been part of my morning read since 2006 and I haven't been aware of any design changes.

[JAD]

I agree, and that's from my years as a commander of a Defense Contract Administration unit, with QA and production management responsibility. If tolerances stack to non-functionality, then the engineers assigned tolerances wrongly. I feel the same way about "everybody builds a lemon now and then" as you do about "built on Monday."

While both of you are completely right if a design parameter is assembly without fitting, sometimes it's reasonable to want better gap control than fabrication tolerances permit, and in those cases it can be acceptable to fit (or bin match -- played that game a lot in my life) parts to one another. Things that are fit aren't bad, they're just different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LostDuke]

I had the pleasure to participate in a course with Ernst last weekend, and watch him work that thing, and let me tell you that Storm flies, literally flies in his hands. Now, the operator operates and all that and he is the real thing. But a flat tire is a flat tire for everybody, and the little Storm has to keep up with a lot of rounds, a lot of drills, a lot of situations where a longer barrel would help. And yet. Yet it goes, smoothly fires every time and right where it should. It's a really a storm, a great pistol that does not hesitate, waver or slow things down.

If I had had any doubts before - I didn't, as I said the GP6 had long dispelled any concerns over the functionality of the rotating barrel system for me - I would have left them there in Virginia and come back a believer. As things are, I really can't use that word for myself so let's say I like it quite a bit.

For the record, there was a second one, full size in 45, which also ran flawlessly. 900 rounds or so in two days, and the guns were getting real hot.

[rauchman]

Thanks for this thread. Great info.

I may have missed it, but what are the maintenance intervals on this pistol. Cycle/round counts for recoil springs, trigger springs, etc. Is there a critical component (ala locking block for the 92) that needs to be changed out, at what interval?

I know this thread is focused on the compact, but how is the fullsize PX4?

[LangdonTactical]

I'mnce or they are not. If they are all in tolerance, the machine made out of those parts had better work. It doesn't matter which end of the tolerance range each part is.

If the above requirement isn't met, the design is faulty and has to be fixed.


This is my area of subject matter expetise, but feel free to point out if I have made a mistake,

So I have been in the Gun Industry since 1997. I have worked directly for two gun companies and consulted for several others over the year. I agree with you to a point. But there is a difference between a design flaw and a manufacturing flaw. For example, a brand new cutter gets put into a machine, it is cutting a very sharp corner into a slide or frame rail, now that corner is so sharp it creates a stress riser there in that area that was cut. That will not show up for a few thousand rounds, but it will show up, and it will only show up in the guns that are shot for a few thousand rounds. This cutter is only two sharp for the first dozen or so parts that it cuts and that cutter in a calibrated CNC machine will adjust for wear on that cutter for several hundred parts lets say. So out of the several hundred parts that are built that day, only 12 of them have that issue. Now the question is how long will it take for one of those 12 to get to the few thousand rounds that it takes to show the "manufacturing flaw". Seeing as how most of these guns that are sold over the counter very seldom get more than 100 rounds put through them, or even a gun sold to a police department will take years to get to the round count and now only 12 of the few hundred have that issue.

So it can take years for the manufacture to find out there is an issue as it will not even be set to a specific serial number range.

This is just an example that I have seen. I have seen other issues with vendor and part changes and I have seen it with many manufactures, even the ones that are that people think are perfect.

[Alpha Sierra]

Ernest, not disagreeing with you in general.

In your example, which is a good one, you have a manufacturing defect in more ways than one.

Mistake # 1 is selecting (either intentionally or mistakenly) a cutter with the wrong tip geometry. Doing so makes a corner radius tighter than what the part was designed for, so you have a quality escape. That should have been caught by the operator in his first piece check.

Mistake # 2 is letting mistake #1 fix itself by tool wear.

The right way is to use a cutter (mill cutter, lathe insert, broach, whatever the tool) that will make a good part right from the get go. That goes along with selecting appropriate spindle speed, tool speed, depth of cut, rev/inch, and another whole host of machine parameters that need to be right for the parts to be to print from the first to the last. And a robust sampling/inspection plan to catch those that aren't to print, since no process is always perfect.

You're right in that no company is perfect, and I'm not singling out Beretta for any reason.

When I went shopping for a DA/SA pistol, the PX4 was one of the top choices but the CZ P-07 won for me in the end.

[LangdonTactical]

You're right in that no company is perfect, and I'm not singling out Beretta for any reason.

When I went shopping for a DA/SA pistol, the PX4 was one of the top choices but the CZ P-07 won for me in the end.

100% agree, and the P-07 was on my list as well. But I decided to go with the Beretta because it has the same manual of arms as the full size guns I shoot all the time. P-07 looks like a good option.

[Kyle Reese]

Once I get my PX 4 C back I'm going to stipple it up....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[LangdonTactical]

Once I get my PX 4 C back I'm going to stipple it up....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Back from where?

[MVS]

Ernest, not disagreeing with you in general.

In your example, which is a good one, you have a manufacturing defect in more ways than one.

Mistake # 1 is selecting (either intentionally or mistakenly) a cutter with the wrong tip geometry. Doing so makes a corner radius tighter than what the part was designed for, so you have a quality escape. That should have been caught by the operator in his first piece check.

Mistake # 2 is letting mistake #1 fix itself by tool wear.

The right way is to use a cutter (mill cutter, lathe insert, broach, whatever the tool) that will make a good part right from the get go. That goes along with selecting appropriate spindle speed, tool speed, depth of cut, rev/inch, and another whole host of machine parameters that need to be right for the parts to be to print from the first to the last. And a robust sampling/inspection plan to catch those that aren't to print, since no process is always perfect.

.

I didn't want to disagree with Ernest since I have another class with him coming up, but you are correct. I am a Tool and Die maker by trade, using the above example you describe it very well.

[Kyle Reese]

Back from where?

Friend of mine is kind enough to put some rounds thru it while I'm waiting on my Shaggy. He's sufficiently impressed enough with mine that he's buying one.

[GJM]

I didn't want to disagree with Ernest since I have another class with him coming up, but you are correct. I am a Tool and Die maker by trade, using the above example you describe it very well.

You are very smart, Ernest is the last person I would disagree with -- he probably would retaliate by making you draw in front of the whole class on the timer, do a FAST, shoot left and right hand only, and shoot on the move. Never mind, scratch that, he will make you do that regardless. :)

[azerious]

Hey Ernest, Would you mind taking a picture of the internals next time before you clean it? Preferably after a high round count period. I have yet to see one of these REALLY dirty, and am just curious. Thanks man!

ETA: Oh and strongly considering selling the G17 for one of these...crazy, but I really want to get back on the TDA wagon lately...and to think i have a gadget coming too:rolleyes:

[THellURider]

Hey Ernest, Would you mind taking a picture of the internals next time before you clean it? Preferably after a high round count period. I have yet to see one of these REALLY dirty, and am just curious. Thanks man!

ETA: Oh and strongly considering selling the G17 for one of these...crazy, but I really want to get back on the TDA wagon lately...and to think i have a gadget coming too:rolleyes:

I'm right there with you on that but here I am anyways. Looney tunes.

[LangdonTactical]

Hey Ernest, Would you mind taking a picture of the internals next time before you clean it? Preferably after a high round count period. I have yet to see one of these REALLY dirty, and am just curious. Thanks man!

ETA: Oh and strongly considering selling the G17 for one of these...crazy, but I really want to get back on the TDA wagon lately...and to think i have a gadget coming too:rolleyes:

Yeah, I will try to get around to doing that. I will have another training session tomorrow and I will try to take a picture then.

[CGA]

I have also heard that there are even more parts for the PX4 than I knew about. Turns out Beretta Italy has spent quite a bit of time developing some accessories for these guns. There are 4 different versions of the safety levers in different sizes. There are steel guide rod kits and even an improved trigger group. Basically it is a whole hammer and sear group that just drops into the frame that includes a better hammer spring. Both DA and SA are improved with this kit. I am trying to see if I can get my hands on one to try. This kit includes a stiffer cage that houses everything as well as plated parts for a smoother action.

I've seen the trigger group, but anyone have information on the Beretta steel guide rod kits? I'm only coming up with 3rd party.

[Alpha Sierra]

Are plastic guide rods a common failure point?

[Kirk]

I'm considering a Px4 for carry and a Wilson 92FS for competition... do they have a similar manual of arms? I have never owned a 92.

[azerious]

I'm considering a Px4 for carry and a Wilson 92FS for competition... do they have a similar manual of arms? I have never owned a 92.

exact MOA in FS configuration until you convert to "G" then it's super minor

[Alpha Sierra]

exact MOA in FS configuration until you convert to "G"
And even then the difference is minor.

Most of my DA/SA pistols have a frame mounted decocker. I press it and let it go and it's ready to fire. One of my DA/SA pistols has a slide mounted safety/decocker. I have never forgotten to flick it up back to fire after pressing it down to decock.

But I'm one of those strange guys that has no use for manual safeties.

[markdl000]

Well, you guys got me. I picked up a used one today for a good price. I plan on converting to 'G' tomorrow. The little detent in the safety seems easy enough to pop out.
I plan on just following along with this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWc6i506oEQ

[Up1911Fan]

Maybe i'm the only one, but i'd prefer a Langdon Special 92 over this. Vertec top end on an M9A1 frame from the factory.

[GJM]

I would rather shoot the Langdon Special and carry the PX4 Compact.

With no disrespect intended to folks carrying striker or LEM guns, for those willing to put in the work, I feel DA/SA designs make the best carry guns.

[Eli]

Do any of y'all know if the rail on the compact will take an Inforce APL?

[azerious]

Do any of y'all know if the rail on the compact will take an Inforce APL?


Yes


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtkUxdJ2rZE

[Eli]

Yes



That appears to be a full size PX4. The Compact has an abbreviated dust cover that looks like it'd be too short to mount a light.

I'm pretty invested in Glocks so it isn't a huge deal for me, but my EDC wears a weapon mounted light, so that would definitely be a deciding factor in whether or not I'd pick one up.

[azerious]

That appears to be a full size PX4. The Compact has an abbreviated dust cover that looks like it'd be too short to mount a light.

I'm pretty invested in Glocks so it isn't a huge deal for me, but my EDC wears a weapon mounted light, so that would definitely be a deciding factor in whether or not I'd pick one up.


It HAS to be an Inforce APL?

[klake575]

I tried mounting my inforce on my compact and it would not fit.

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[Eli]

I tried mounting my inforce on my compact and it would not fit.


Thanks.....that's what I figured.

[LangdonTactical]

OK, another quick update for you guys. I just completed a two day shooting class with a buddy of my from the LASOs SEB team. This was his first open class, but the class was and all LE class. Class was put on by John Montenegro of Black Mountain Tactical. John has about 20 year with LASO including 6 years on their SEB team and about 10 years I think on patrol in Compton. John put on a great class and had a great focus on being accountable for every shot you fire from an LEO perspective. I hope he is able to teach more and let others gain from his years of experience. John is still a full time member of the SEB Team which keeps him very busy. I am lucky to have been able to get into the class.

I shot the whole class with the PX4 Compact and was able to shoot 96% on the 5 shooting test that John runs in his Tactical Pistol Class. These test included a Bull's Eye course of fire (California FI POST Qual), the 10 in 10 drill, Gunsight 250 qual, Par Timed El Prez, and the SWAT Qual.

I now have almost 8K through gun #2, my count it 7,980, but I could be off by a few rounds. For those of you that are tracking, I was running a cut down #12 hammer spring (three coils cut off). Gun has run fine with federal and factory winchester primers. I had three failures to fire with Winchester WinClean ammo inside of about 800 rounds earlier this week (all of them fired on the second strike). I switched back to the Cougar D spring and shot another 1000 rounds of WinClean with no issues at all. Interestingly i was shooting the same WinClean ammo as many of the LEOs in the class. Many of them shooting M&P pistols also had some failures to fire in the class with those stock guns. So this could just a random issue and for sure is an issue with slightly harder primers in this lead free ammo.

Outside of that I have not had a single issue or any other type of malfunction in the 8k of random ammo i have put through the gun.

I will tell you this, the Trijicon HDs are not the best sights for 25 yard Bull's Eye in the bright California sun :(

Cheers,

Ernest

[THellURider]

Thanks for the update!

I shot mine yesterday for the 1st time. It was a casual range trip and not a "work" trip but generally speaking, I liked it. Not enough to get me to switch from my Glocks but I enjoyed shooting it. I have 2 issues that maybe you can help me with:

1. I can't get the small backstrap off the gun to mount the larger backstraps and I think I need to go to the medium.
2. The reset on this trigger seems long and light and I found myself not letting it out far enough several times

Side note: Shot my G43 as well for the first time. Impressive little thing!

[bharen]

The PX4 Compact does have ambidextrous slide releases. I am right handed so I took the other lever off to make the gun slimmer.

I'm as southpaw as they come, but for me a slide release lever on the right side of the pistol frame is the equivalent of you-know-what on a boar hog. I can hit most standard slide releases faster with my left hand trigger finger or middle finger faster than most right handed shooters can get to it with their thumb. A southpaw 'friendly' slide release also hinders a thumbs-high grip. That's one of the reasons I have a love/hate relationship with my CZ-85.

[Whirlwind06]

Thanks for the update!


1. I can't get the small backstrap off the gun to mount the larger backstraps and I think I need to go to the medium.



The backstrap takes a bit if prying once the wire is removed. I used a plastic putty knive to pry it off.