New CZ P-07 = Mind Blown

[s0nspark]

So have I. The question is as always about legal liability of such modification, not reliability to me

There are certainly some mods that are ill-advised (or unsafe) for carry - I really don't see any of the ProGrade upgrades as being in that category. Everybody has their own comfort level, though.

[Lon]

I wouldn't call the 15# HS unfit for carry. I have run thousands of rounds through mine without a single failure to fire.

Me either. I carry it with that spring and have no worries.

[Clusterfrack]

Point taken. I should have said I wouldn’t carry it, rather than a more broad statement.

I use my carry guns in less than ideal conditions, like the backcountry hike we were on all day today. Dust, water, sweat can interfere with a tuned action, so I prefer a heavier spring.

[Trukinjp13]

Does the p07 now come with p-10c mags? I am ready to pick one up again and would like to know?

Cluster- ya got me back in the CZ camp [emoji6]


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[Clusterfrack]

Does the p07 now come with p-10c mags? I am ready to pick one up again and would like to know?

Cluster- ya got me back in the CZ camp [emoji6]


My P-07s each came with two 15 round P-07 magazines. These appear to be identical to the P-10c magazines, except they have a slightly thinner baseplate.

[ralph]

Well, I ordered a OD Green P07 this morning, plan is to shoot it for awhile, and maybe install a pro upgrade kit from CGW..I want to run it stock for awhile and see if I like it, before I start sinking money into it I'll never get back out (pro upgrade kit). However, I think this will work out well. It's also nice to see CZ is nitriding the slides, and barrels, on the P07,09's they should do that across the board..

[Lon]

Does the p07 now come with p-10c mags? I am ready to pick one up again and would like to know?

Cluster- ya got me back in the CZ camp [emoji6]


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I believe the orange follower mags are the new ones that work with both guns.

Check out reply #4:
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=98020.0

[Trukinjp13]

My P-07s each came with two 15 round P-07 magazines. These appear to be identical to the P-10c magazines, except they have a slightly thinner baseplate.

Awesome! Thank you. Going to get one coming. Thinking base cgw reliability upgrades and Clusterfrak trigger smoothing method. Probably going to try the night fision sights out also.




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[s0nspark]

Does the p07 now come with p-10c mags? I am ready to pick one up again and would like to know?


The last one I bought about 6 months ago came with P-10C compatible mags... And, oddly enough, black followers.

[Clusterfrack]

...I also believe it is possible to unintentionally place enough pressure on the decocker of the P07/09, to cause a failure to ignite. If you remove the slide and partially depress the decocker, you can see how this pushes the trigger bar down.

I tested this today, the P-07 functions normally even when decocker is held down pretty far (see below). I fired multiple shots with no problem, in DA and SA while holding the decocker down. I don't think this is a concern.





https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180711/9da113a7897e374184a947f29dd4d12a.jpg

[Greg]

I think people are too quick to order a CGW kit for the P-07/09 pistols. I run a pair of 07s that are bone stock except for an 18 pound hammer spring and CGWs recommended firing pin spring. I have yet to have a pistol related malf with these guns in 7000+ rounds.

See GJM's thread on his P-09 ignition issues. Those are competition pistols so I'm not faulting him for modifying them, but that thread serves as a good reminder that varying from stock parts often reduces the reliability of a pistol.

I continue to believe these pistols are very shootable "as is". Run a bunch of rounds through them before you go nuts ordering parts.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I usually just recommend the extended firing pin + spring, 18lb hammer spring, and the trigger return spring. The short reset kit is nice but not necessary. I couldn't tell the difference between stock hammer and race hammer

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[LockedBreech]

I think people are too quick to order a CGW kit for the P-07/09 pistols. I run a pair of 07s that are bone stock except for an 18 pound hammer spring and CGWs recommended firing pin spring. I have yet to have a pistol related malf with these guns in 7000+ rounds.

See GJM's thread on his P-09 ignition issues. Those are competition pistols so I'm not faulting him for modifying them, but that thread serves as a good reminder that varying from stock parts often reduces the reliability of a pistol.

I continue to believe these pistols are very shootable "as is". Run a bunch of rounds through them before you go nuts ordering parts.

I tend to think the shooting community is too mod-happy in general. The vast majority of my pistols are stock and I have had very, very few issues.

[Trukinjp13]

I tend to think the shooting community is too mod-happy in general. The vast majority of my pistols are stock and I have had very, very few issues.

I agree with this. I have really tried to move to guns that did not require a ton of aftermarket parts to make the trigger work. The p07 I used to have was bone stock. That gun shot amazingly. At the time I was trying the px4cc out,so I sold cz. I should have just kept it. The px4cc was great but it costed a hell of a lot more, had a lot of comp gun parts in it and was more complex to work on. The p07 really is the g19 of tda guns.

Now that you have striker/tda crossover with compatible mags that is just awesome. My plan is p-10c setup for range work/comp gun. And have p07 for carry gun.


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[s0nspark]

I think people are too quick to order a CGW kit for the P-07/09 pistols. I run a pair of 07s that are bone stock except for an 18 pound hammer spring and CGWs recommended firing pin spring. I have yet to have a pistol related malf with these guns in 7000+ rounds.

See GJM's thread on his P-09 ignition issues. Those are competition pistols so I'm not faulting him for modifying them, but that thread serves as a good reminder that varying from stock parts often reduces the reliability of a pistol.

I continue to believe these pistols are very shootable "as is". Run a bunch of rounds through them before you go nuts ordering parts.

A few thoughts...

First, it is important to keep in mind that not all stock pistols are created equal. I have seen a wide variance in just the four P-07s I own and the few others I've shot in stock form. Some had really good triggers - others were a lot worse. Night and day worse. Stacking, creep... anything negative you could say about a trigger.

Second, I think some people introduce problems by not understanding the way the ProGrade parts work together and they do partial upgrades. That is a recipe for trouble IMO. If you lower the HS weight and do not use the reduced power FP spring and extended FP then you will likely get light strikes, for example.

[s0nspark]

I usually just recommend the extended firing pin + spring, 18lb hammer spring, and the trigger return spring. The short reset kit is nice but not necessary. I couldn't tell the difference between stock hammer and race hammer


That is solid advice.

On two of mine, I could have stuck with the stock hammer... the other two had a lot of creep.

Short reset is not a huge thing for me... my biggies are a smooth DA and a crisp (enough) SA.

[Trukinjp13]

That is solid advice.

On two of mine, I could have stuck with the stock hammer... the other two had a lot of creep.

Short reset is not a huge thing for me... my biggies are a smooth DA and a crisp (enough) SA.

Since I have been shooting a p30 lem a lot lately. The p07 will already have a shorter reset 🤣🤣. I may install the short reset kit since it is a option. But my only issue I had with my first p07 was the heavy creepy da. And mine was a very low round and stick gun. So that is easily fixed


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[s0nspark]

Since I have been shooting a p30 lem a lot lately. The p07 will already have a shorter reset ����.

That is probably true of almost anything non-LEM :-)

[GJM]

I love the Cajun Pro stuff for competition, because a decent trigger is so important gaming.

This is my P07 EDC. A green recent manufacture P07 that came with OEM tritium sights for $420. I added the grip decal Cluster recommended, the Cajun firing pin roll pin/extended firing pin/firing pin spring, and it is otherwise stock. Has never had a stoppage and the sights were regulated POA/POI at 25 yards, right out of the new box.

27972

[Trukinjp13]

I love the Cajun Pro stuff for competition, because a decent trigger is so important gaming.

This is my P07 EDC. A green recent manufacture P07 that came with OEM tritium sights for $420. I added the grip decal Cluster recommended, the Cajun firing pin roll pin/extended firing pin/firing pin spring, and it is otherwise stock. Has never had a stoppage and the sights were regulated POA/POI at 25 yards, right out of the new box.

27972

I like how them grips do not wrap around the back of the gun. I may look into getting a tritium model and skipping buying sights for now. Nice setup!


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[s0nspark]

I love the Cajun Pro stuff for competition, because a decent trigger is so important gaming.

This is my P07 EDC. A green recent manufacture P07 that came with OEM tritium sights for $420. I added the grip decal Cluster recommended, the Cajun firing pin roll pin/extended firing pin/firing pin spring, and it is otherwise stock. Has never had a stoppage and the sights were regulated POA/POI at 25 yards, right out of the new box.

27972

Very nice :-)

[ralph]

A few thoughts...

First, it is important to keep in mind that not all stock pistols are created equal. I have seen a wide variance in just the four P-07s I own and the few others I've shot in stock form. Some had really good triggers - others were a lot worse. Night and day worse. Stacking, creep... anything negative you could say about a trigger.

Second, I think some people introduce problems by not understanding the way the ProGrade parts work together and they do partial upgrades. That is a recipe for trouble IMO. If you lower the HS weight and do not use the reduced power FP spring and extended FP then you will likely get light strikes, for example.

This is exactly right, I've talked with David from CGW at length, while discussing some work he was going to do on a pistol I had down there, He explained to me, that these parts all have to work together, or you'll have problems..like you said lower the HS weight,and don't use the extended firing pin, you're asking for trouble. The way I figure it, If one buys a pro upgrade kit, for example, you need to install the whole kit, not just part of it.. This is where alot of people create their own problems..

[s0nspark]

Double post - thanks Tapatalk.

[UniSol]

I have a P07 waiting on release from a NICS delay. Been contemplating one since I first became aware of them about 12 months ago. I'm firmly in the DA/SA camp for carry, especially appendix, and on paper it checks the most boxes on my list out of anything else available. That and the generally stellar reviews made it inevitable that I'd pick one up. All the other curiosity or impulse buys got in the way until now, I guess. Probably gonna put in an order for a JMCK plain Jane AIWB while I'm waiting. Just wanted to put my thoughts in here after getting to the last page. Looking forward to seeing how it actually works out. Expectations are high.

[Trukinjp13]

Does anyone run the tb/suppressor sight model for concealed carry? I like the sight setup and can potential of it. Seems like a very solid deal for what you get.


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[s0nspark]

Does anyone run the tb/suppressor sight model for concealed carry? I like the sight setup and can potential of it. Seems like a very solid deal for what you get.

Why... yes! :)

Well, mine started as the suppressor-ready model. Sights were upgraded when it was milled for the RMR and the threaded barrel got a Primary Machine stealth comp. I also changed up the mag configuration a bit. I run a standrad mag with a P-10C basepad in the gun - the basepad provides a small shelf that I find works great as an index point when building my grip - and I swapped the other CZ +2 basepad for a CZ Custom +4.

28034

28035

[Trukinjp13]

Why... yes! [emoji4]

Well, mine started as the suppressor-ready model. Sights were upgraded when it was milled for the RMR and the threaded barrel got a Primary Machine stealth comp. I also changed up the mag configuration a bit. I run a standrad mag with a P-10C basepad in the gun - the basepad provides a small shelf that I find works great as an index point when building my grip - and I swapped the other CZ +2 basepad for a CZ Custom +4.

28034

28035

I love that rig! I also want to match my recent pickup. P10c is getting rmr2 treatment and the p07 is going to be my carry gun. I would
Also like to pick up a can. And the suppressor model barely more expensive than the regular. So im either ordering a p07 od with night sights or p07 tactical type model.

The p10c was a impulse buy. And I kinda wish I would have went full boogie on a 07. Just like your setup.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180714/9abc081fd6ff8079e3bf4572c21e5b14.jpg


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[holmes168]

Took my bone stock, not even upgraded sights, P07 out this morning. I shot 196 of my 124gr reloads with zero issues with the P07.
I will say- the trigger when pulled slowly is still a bit gritty, but my splits di get below 0.2 seconds for the first time.

Great little pistol as is.

[s0nspark]

I love that rig! I also want to match my recent pickup. P10c is getting rmr2 treatment and the p07 is going to be my carry gun. I would
Also like to pick up a can. And the suppressor model barely more expensive than the regular. So im either ordering a p07 od with night sights or p07 tactical type model.


I am kind of still holding my breath on getting a can - I'm wanting the Omega 9k but I haven't been able to justify the expense, as of yet.

One of my P-07s has yet to have a comp installed, though, in case I get over that little hurdle.



The p10c was a impulse buy. And I kinda wish I would have went full boogie on a 07. Just like your setup.


Mine was too - it is now my only striker-fired gun. I added the CGW tool steel striker and flat-ish trigger to it and it shoots really well. I'm not much of a striker guy so it is just a range/fun gun.

28041

[Robinson]

So I decided to see what all the fuss is about today. I handled a P-07 and a P-09 at the LGS, and yeah they seemed like good pistols (for polymer guns anyway :)). DA triggers weren't great, single action pretty nice though.

Then I handled the SP01 Tactical sitting next to them, which led to me trying out their rental SP01. That pretty much cured me of wanting to know more about the P-07/P-09. The SP01 Tactical seemed superior to me in every way -- fantastic DA and SA trigger, de-cocking lever positioned just right, easy to hit with. Just terrific. I'm glad the polymer CZs are good pistols that evidently some really squared away folks like a lot, but it's the SP01 Tactical that could actually lure me in.

[s0nspark]

The SP01 Tactical seemed superior to me in every way -- fantastic DA and SA trigger, de-cocking lever positioned just right, easy to hit with. Just terrific. I'm glad the polymer CZs are good pistols that evidently some really squared away folks like a lot, but it's the SP01 Tactical that could actually lure me in.

Depending on your use case the SP-01 Tactical might be better... I used to own one and had it upgraded by CGW - it was a great pistol. The trigger can be tuned up to be nicer than the Omega-based guns IMO.

Personally I prefer the slide serrations and easier adaptability with slide mounted optics of the P-07/P-09 ... and a polymer frame that can be stippled. They are all great guns, though.

[holmes168]

Depending on your use case the SP-01 Tactical might be better... I used to own one and had it upgraded by CGW - it was a great pistol. The trigger can be tuned up to be nicer than the Omega-based guns IMO.

Personally I prefer the slide serrations and easier adaptability with slide mounted optics of the P-07/P-09 ... and a polymer frame that can be stippled. They are all great guns, though.

Funny- I was doing research on the Omega trigger almost at the same time posted this.
Seems like a general consensus is- CZ-75/P01 does not need an Omega trigger. However- the polymer guns 07/09 are great fits for the Omega trigger.

Your take?

[Trukinjp13]

Funny- I was doing research on the Omega trigger almost at the same time posted this.
Seems like a general consensus is- CZ-75/P01 does not need an Omega trigger. However- the polymer guns 07/09 are great fits for the Omega trigger.

Your take?

Okay I do not have all the experience of the other peeps. But in my shooting. The omega is far better stock. But with smithing work done the p01/sp01 feel pretty darn nice.


Omega is also a simpler system

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[s0nspark]

Okay I do not have all the experience of the other peeps. But in my shooting. The omega is far better stock. But with smithing work done the p01/sp01 feel pretty darn nice.


I've owned about a dozen or so CZs and I found stock triggers to really be hit or miss across the board - the non-Omega guns seemed to have heavier DA pulls but other than that it was all over the place.



Omega is also a simpler system


I like it for that very reason. I am not the most mechanically-gifted and the Omega is simple enough for me to do my own upgrades. I would not have dared to attempt such feats with my HKs or P22x Sigs...

[Robinson]

I was very surprised at how good the DA trigger was on the SP01 I tried. It was noticeably better than two CZ 75Bs I compared it to, and far beyond the P-07/P-09 examples they had. All were brand new guns except the rental SP01 I shot.

I guess I should apologize now for the thread drift, especially as this is such an excellent thread.

[s0nspark]

Funny- I was doing research on the Omega trigger almost at the same time posted this.
Seems like a general consensus is- CZ-75/P01 does not need an Omega trigger. However- the polymer guns 07/09 are great fits for the Omega trigger.

Your take?

From what I understand, the Omega system was designed to simplify maintenance and smithing.

The classic design involves a sear cage that must be wrestled with and is, by all accounts, a bit of a bear to get back in without magic/voodoo/sheer luck/bloodshed. They removed the sear cage in the newer Omega design. The downside to that simplicity is perhaps a bit less refinement potential.

I have yet to get hands-on with any of the newer steel-framed Omega guns... I am curious to see how they compare to the P-07/P-09.

[GuanoLoco]

For the record, y’all just cost me the price of a P-07, suppressor ready.

Sights: All 3-dot sights are slow. I do like the taller sights though. Tritium is nice but I don’t need it. I’ll replace the sights with a flat black (or darken the rear somehow), fiber front because fast and I carry a flashlight. OK, usually 2 flashlights and like shooting strong hand with a flashlight indexed to my cheek.

Trigger: Heavy DA, safe to be sure, but way heavier than I need to be safe. I’d say it is more of a liability. SA - still heavy-ish but workable. I’ll get it on a trigger gauge later and consider it more carefully.

Magazines - 1 17rd extended, 1 useless 10-round that I might be able to drill out the dimple on. C’mon, at least give me 2 usable magazines.

Quick live fire test vs. G19 with flat black rear/fiber front and a ‘light’ trigger job (Striker spring - 0.5 lb, Ghost Evo Elite fitted connector, polish) - not compelling improvement. Also tested vs. a stock CZ P-01 Omega supressor ready. Ran some Bill Drills and whatnot.

Overall - meh, not compelling in a stock configuration. DA too heavy, stock SA out of the box not really any better that the G19 in terms of speed and accuracy. I need to retry with better sights as that wasn’t really a fair comparison. I do prefer the DA/SA to striker-fired, but mostly because I spend a lot of time with DA/SA. I don’t spend a lot of time with an (IMHO) MUCH heavier DA, that is definitely a dis-incentive at this point. I see no reason not to have a relatively light SA after a heavy DA.

At this point I plan to go straight to the CGW package - if I am going to seriously contemplate a swap from Glock I need a materially better solution, not just a Striker-to-DA/SA swap just because.

So...early in my analysis, sort-of like, socks not blown off or anything. At least not yet.

[holmes168]

GuanoLoco - will definitely be interested in your further observations. On my second time out with the P-07 this morning- I really started to feel an improvement in the trigger. I have really started to like the P-07 more as I continue to work with it in dry fire.

[JTPHD]

I've been shooting my Cajun P-07 a lot more lately, perhaps because it is the only pistol I currently have access to ;)
While I find it to be the most "shootable" compact pistol in my hands, it is starting to bruise the thumb joint of my carny-sized dominant hand (small backstrap). I really want to like this gun- especially after gaining my first production win at the club steel challenge match with it. Does any one have suggestions / grip techniques? Thanks!
28059

[Lon]

I've been shooting my Cajun P-07 a lot more lately, perhaps because it is the only pistol I currently have access to ;)
While I find it to be the most "shootable" compact pistol in my hands, it is starting to bruise the thumb joint of my carny-sized dominant hand (small backstrap). I really want to like this gun- especially after gaining my first production win at the club steel challenge match with it. Does any one have suggestions / grip techniques? Thanks!
28059

Which backstrap are you using? Have you tried a different one?

[JTPHD]

Which backstrap are you using? Have you tried a different one?

Small. The Medium pushes the beaver tail even further into the joint. I'm thinking about trying out Kyle Defoor's grip suggestion with the strong hand thumb resting over the support hand thumb: https://youtu.be/wcVHykd3zTU?t=2m21s Need to confirm with live fire.

[GuanoLoco]

This is a thread drift, but what kind of grip are you using and how hard are you gripping?

[s0nspark]

Small. The Medium pushes the beaver tail even further into the joint. I'm thinking about trying out Kyle Defoor's grip suggestion with the strong hand thumb resting over the support hand thumb: https://youtu.be/wcVHykd3zTU?t=2m21s Need to confirm with live fire.

That is the technique I've adopted (primarily to keep my thumb off of the slide release on other guns) and I've never had an issue. I hope it works for you :)

[JTPHD]

This is a thread drift, but what kind of grip are you using and how hard are you gripping?

Thumbs forward grip. Tight with dominant hand, as tight as I can with support hand. Working with a COC 1 gripper, about to move up (for reference).

[Clusterfrack]

Looks like you may need to rotate the gun bit toward the middle of your web. That will make the trigger a bit more of a reach, but your grip looks unbalanced to me.

Be careful with the Captains. I know two people who have injured themselves with them.

[JTPHD]

Looks like you may need to rotate the gun bit toward the middle of your web. That will make the trigger a bit more of a reach, but your grip looks unbalanced to me.

Be careful with the Captains. I know two people who have injured themselves with them.

Thanks for the advice, Clusterfrack. I'll try more rotation towards the middle.

[Trigger]

Another technique for smoothing the Trigger on a new P07/P09 is to put some forward pressure on the back of the hammer while dry-firing. Basically you are putting extra pressure on the hammer sear engagement surfaces, causing them to wear-in faster. The work of a thousand dry fires in a hundred.

I have two P07s, one stock and one with CGW parts, and their triggers are surprisingly similar now after a lot of shooting and dry-firing.

[Trukinjp13]

Why... yes! :)

Well, mine started as the suppressor-ready model. Sights were upgraded when it was milled for the RMR and the threaded barrel got a Primary Machine stealth comp. I also changed up the mag configuration a bit. I run a standrad mag with a P-10C basepad in the gun - the basepad provides a small shelf that I find works great as an index point when building my grip - and I swapped the other CZ +2 basepad for a CZ Custom +4.

28034

28035

What holster is this?


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[s0nspark]

What holster is this?


That is the best holster in the world :-D

JM Custom Kydex light-bearing AIWB Claw #1 for the P-09 + X300 with an RMR cut in PF-approved carbon fiber orange.

(It only required a few minutes with a heat gun to adapt it for use with the stealth comp.)

BTW, the "pad" is a home-grown solution - velcro plus a slice off of an antimicrobial, closed-cell foam camping pad (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Venture-Products-LLC-Outdoors-Travel-Light-Classic-Camp-Pad-25-x-78-Green/23382498) from WalMart.

[Trukinjp13]

That is the best holster in the world :-D

JM Custom Kydex light-bearing AIWB Claw #1 for the P-09 + X300 with an RMR cut in PF-approved carbon fiber orange.

(It only required a few minutes with a heat gun to adapt it for use with the stealth comp.)

BTW, the "pad" is a home-grown solution - velcro plus a slice off of an antimicrobial, closed-cell foam camping pad (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Venture-Products-LLC-Outdoors-Travel-Light-Classic-Camp-Pad-25-x-78-Green/23382498) from WalMart.

That is pretty slick! I need to get a iwb3 coming for her. Too bad they do not quick ship
P09 holsters.


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[s0nspark]

That is pretty slick! I need to get a iwb3 coming for her. Too bad they do not quick ship
P09 holsters.


I have actually been considering the same... just to have the option of IWB should it ever be the preferable choice.

[ralph]

I got my OD green P-07(91077) last night, trigger in either mode really is'nt bad, useable, but there's room for improvement.. One thing I did notice that I did'nt like was in the barrel..The barrel appears to have either a black nitride, or black oxide finish on it, that's not so bad, but looking into the chamber it was left in the white. The last P-07 I had, developed a spot of rust in the chamber (don't ask me how, I never figured that out) and when I removed the rust, that spot was pitted... I myself would prefer to have the barrel nitrided, at least that would offer quite a bit of corrosion resistance, as it is now, there is none. I guess that's something I'll have to get done.. One would think CZ would be doing that by now...

[GJM]

That is the best holster in the world :-D

JM Custom Kydex light-bearing AIWB Claw #1 for the P-09 + X300 with an RMR cut in PF-approved carbon fiber orange.

(It only required a few minutes with a heat gun to adapt it for use with the stealth comp.)

BTW, the "pad" is a home-grown solution - velcro plus a slice off of an antimicrobial, closed-cell foam camping pad (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Venture-Products-LLC-Outdoors-Travel-Light-Classic-Camp-Pad-25-x-78-Green/23382498) from WalMart.


That is pretty slick! I need to get a iwb3 coming for her. Too bad they do not quick ship
P09 holsters.


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Tony at JM just ordered the mold to do TLR7/8 holsters for the P07.

[Trukinjp13]

Tony at JM just ordered the mold to do TLR7/8 holsters for the P07.

Oh what timing! I have been contemplating a tlr7 for her but no jmck option! Just ordered a iwb3 last night for it.

Thank you for the update!


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[Lon]

Tony at JM just ordered the mold to do TLR7/8 holsters for the P07.

Awesome. I checked a couple weeks ago and he hadn’t had enough interest to get one. That’s good news.

[Trukinjp13]

My p07 should be arriving in the next couple days. My plan is cgw reliability upgrade parts for sure. Figure out roller size for da roller. Possibly srt kit.

Has anyone used the duty spring kit in conjunction with the srt kit? Wondering what the results will be with the srt and basic spring kit. Or if I should just buy the pro grade kit with the fixings.


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[Mirolynmonbro]

My p07 should be arriving in the next couple days. My plan is cgw reliability upgrade parts for sure. Figure out roller size for da roller. Possibly srt kit.

Has anyone used the duty spring kit in conjunction with the srt kit? Wondering what the results will be with the srt and basic spring kit. Or if I should just buy the pro grade kit with the fixings.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI only have the SRT and the 15/18 hammer springs in mine. 15lb in the gaming P09 and 18 in the training and carry P07s

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[Trukinjp13]

I only have the SRT and the 15/18 hammer springs in mine. 15lb in the gaming P09 and 18 in the training and carry P07s

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Thats what I am thinking of doing. Seems like a good simple compromise. I really appreciate these guns have so much available for them. Being able to cater to my needs is awesome.


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[Mirolynmonbro]

I also use the reduced power trigger spring for reliability reasons

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[GuanoLoco]

For the record, y’all just cost me the price of a P-07, suppressor ready.

Sights: All 3-dot sights are slow. I do like the taller sights though. Tritium is nice but I don’t need it. I’ll replace the sights with a flat black (or darken the rear somehow), fiber front because fast and I carry a flashlight. OK, usually 2 flashlights and like shooting strong hand with a flashlight indexed to my cheek.

Trigger: Heavy DA, safe to be sure, but way heavier than I need to be safe. I’d say it is more of a liability. SA - still heavy-ish but workable. I’ll get it on a trigger gauge later and consider it more carefully.

Magazines - 1 17rd extended, 1 useless 10-round that I might be able to drill out the dimple on. C’mon, at least give me 2 usable magazines.

Quick live fire test vs. G19 with flat black rear/fiber front and a ‘light’ trigger job (Striker spring - 0.5 lb, Ghost Evo Elite fitted connector, polish) - not compelling improvement. Also tested vs. a stock CZ P-01 Omega supressor ready. Ran some Bill Drills and whatnot.

Overall - meh, not compelling in a stock configuration. DA too heavy, stock SA out of the box not really any better that the G19 in terms of speed and accuracy. I need to retry with better sights as that wasn’t really a fair comparison. I do prefer the DA/SA to striker-fired, but mostly because I spend a lot of time with DA/SA. I don’t spend a lot of time with an (IMHO) MUCH heavier DA, that is definitely a dis-incentive at this point. I see no reason not to have a relatively light SA after a heavy DA.

At this point I plan to go straight to the CGW package - if I am going to seriously contemplate a swap from Glock I need a materially better solution, not just a Striker-to-DA/SA swap just because.

So...early in my analysis, sort-of like, socks not blown off or anything. At least not yet.

I’ve been on the road, finally getting a chance to analyze the stock trigger, after running 4-6 mags of ammo. No dissassembly, lube or working of the trigger in dry fire.

DA trigger: Measured 1/4” of take-up, then > 10 lbs of pressure required to get the trigger moving. Trigger gauge doesn’t increase afterwards so no obvious stacking *on the gauge*. By feel the trigger comes back about 1/4” once it starts moving then gets noticeably heavier and haev at 2-4+ walls before breaking. If you pull firmly and stedily with > 10 lbs of pressure you blow through the walls pretty easily, but the slower you go the more creep you get.

Then about 3/8” to an audible and tactile reset, 1/4” take-up, then about a 4+ lb SA trigger press with at least 2 detectable walls before the break.

From a statis SA, 3/8” - 1/2” of take-uip, then the same 4+ lb SA trigger press with at least 2 detectable walls before the break.

The walls are certainly detectable with a slow press, but the DA seems relatively smooth when pressing through - not really gritty. The SA on the other hand has some discernable grittiness in the walls.

Grip could IMHO use quite a bit more texture. I like the length of the short beavertail. I haven’t messes with the backstrap panels but the stock panel seems OK for now.

Controls - I have XL hands and can work the decocker without breaking my grip. Frankly if my thump were any longer it would be hard to get to so I think a shorter thumb would be fine. I can also just barely work the slide release without breaking my grip, with any shorter of a thumb this would likely not be possible.

So, for MY P-07, out of the box, I’d say this ia an OK but not really noteworthy quality factory trigger. For ~$520 out-the-door from a bricks-and-wortar specialty gun shop, I can’t really complain. Is a 10+/4+ lb DA/SA without too much creep mind blowing? Not for me, but is has potential for significant improvement.

Am I better off with this than an out-of-the-box Glock trigger? Meh. Is it better than a light tuned, relatively smooth Glock trigger (say 3.5 - 4.0 lb) - definitely not, although the heavy DA might be a good thing from a safety perspective, but it certainly has a cost in terms of the time and effort required to get off a quality first shot.

My CGW Pro Upgrade kit and replacement sights came in but I haven’t had time to install any of it. I also haven’t taken down the gun to measure the bushing; I have some mild concern that the kit bushing might not be the optimal choice but I can always buy another.

I did pick up a spare 17 and 19 round (spare) magazine. I’d prefer to find some kind of spacer for the 19 round mag. I also haven’t thought too much about AIWB and OWB holsters - I’d prefer to get the trigger to a much happer place before I invest much more.

[holmes168]

GuanoLoco thanks for the write up. I’d just been wondering what your thoughts had been.

[GJM]

Just posting my latest in the P09 ignition thread.

[GuanoLoco]

Just posting my latest in the P09 ignition thread.

You jazz me up now you are bumming me out, dude. Stop that!

[Trukinjp13]

You jazz me up now you are bumming me out, dude. Stop that!

Just remember reports have been solid for self installed kits with no polishing/spring bending.

[genrl]

I joined just to reply to this thread, love the P07. I've been running mine for many years with some CGW upgrades and the good ol' osprey.

https://i.imgur.com/X6gXOJ7.jpg

[GuanoLoco]

Just remember reports have been solid for self installed kits with no polishing/spring bending.

I have zero concern about properly done polishing. If a gun can’t handle proper polishing (never seen such a thing) I would immediately get rid of it.

Spring bending? I am aware of the practice and have never seen a need to engage in it. My basic concern is a lack of predictability and repeatability in the result. IF I was to experiment in thsi area, and I’m not all that inclined to, I’d buy a small stack of springs and experiment with all but maybe 2. I’m also a high volume shooter, so I’d test with a large volume of reloaded rounds using mixed brass and hard primers.

[s0nspark]

I have zero concern about properly done polishing. If a gun can’t handle proper polishing (never seen such a thing) I would immediately get rid of it.

No argument, really, but how does one define proper? Is it based purely on results or some sort of safety margin? I have heard many say that polishing stock CZ internals shortens the lifespan of the internals... something that might be okay for gaming (if one had a spare gun or two) but is certainly not what I want in defensive guns.



Spring bending? I am aware of the practice and have never seen a need to engage in it. My basic concern is a lack of predictability and repeatability in the result. IF I was to experiment in thsi area, and I’m not all that inclined to, I’d buy a small stack of springs and experiment with all but maybe 2. I’m also a high volume shooter, so I’d test with a large volume of reloaded rounds using mixed brass and hard primers.

When I installed the ProGrade kit in my guns, I decided against bending the trigger bar spring, my concern being going too far with it and only finding out the hard way ;-)

[GJM]

Is the symptom of a bent trigger bar spring a light strike?

My issue is no strike, the hammer stops on the shelf and never contacts the primer.

[Trukinjp13]

Is the symptom of a bent trigger bar spring a light strike?

My issue is no strike, the hammer stops on the shelf and never contacts the primer.

Womder if it could be a out of spec firing pin? Can you try and switch your firing pins/springs around?

[s0nspark]

Is the symptom of a bent trigger bar spring a light strike?

My issue is no strike, the hammer stops on the shelf and never contacts the primer.

Any idea which sear spring is installed? Which roller? What weight hammer spring?

[GJM]

Womder if it could be a out of spec firing pin? Can you try and switch your firing pins/springs around?

Three different pistols, same problem.


Any idea which sear spring is installed? Which roller? What weight hammer spring?

The Pro kit as provided by and installed by CGW.

[s0nspark]

Three different pistols, same problem.



The Pro kit as provided by and installed by CGW.

Right, got that. I've seen timing issues introduced with improper roller/sear spring selection.

The more I think about this, though, the more I am inclined to point the finger at the tuning job. Or you are using some kind of massive gorilla grip technique that is deforming the frame ;-D

What response have you gotten from CGW?

[GJM]

CGW says that it is a characteristic of the Omega trigger design — some side deflection on the trigger (and in my case more finger on the trigger which contacts the frame) is causing this to happen.

I thought I could avoid the problem with trigger technique, but it still happens occasionally.

[s0nspark]

CGW says that it is a characteristic of the Omega trigger design — some side deflection on the trigger (and in my case more finger on the trigger which contacts the frame) is causing this to happen.

I can certainly understand why that answer would be unsatisfying... :(

If you have time and the inclination, I'd love to see a pic of the contact you speak of. I sink a LOT of finger on the trigger (due to long-ish fingers) and am just curious as to how this all is coming together for you.

[GuanoLoco]

No argument, really, but how does one define proper? Is it based purely on results or some sort of safety margin? I have heard many say that polishing stock CZ internals shortens the lifespan of the internals... something that might be okay for gaming (if one had a spare gun or two) but is certainly not what I want in defensive guns.

If you are removing the surface hardening of a part, you have gone way, way, way too far. I’d suggest doing a little research.

[GuanoLoco]

I’ve been on the road, finally getting a chance to analyze the stock trigger, after running 4-6 mags of ammo. No dissassembly, lube or working of the trigger in dry fire.

DA trigger: Measured 1/4” of take-up, then > 10 lbs of pressure required to get the trigger moving. Trigger gauge doesn’t increase afterwards so no obvious stacking *on the gauge*. By feel the trigger comes back about 1/4” once it starts moving then gets noticeably heavier and haev at 2-4+ walls before breaking. If you pull firmly and stedily with > 10 lbs of pressure you blow through the walls pretty easily, but the slower you go the more creep you get.

Then about 3/8” to an audible and tactile reset, 1/4” take-up, then about a 4+ lb SA trigger press with at least 2 detectable walls before the break.

From a statis SA, 3/8” - 1/2” of take-uip, then the same 4+ lb SA trigger press with at least 2 detectable walls before the break.

The walls are certainly detectable with a slow press, but the DA seems relatively smooth when pressing through - not really gritty. The SA on the other hand has some discernable grittiness in the walls.

Grip could IMHO use quite a bit more texture. I like the length of the short beavertail. I haven’t messes with the backstrap panels but the stock panel seems OK for now.

Controls - I have XL hands and can work the decocker without breaking my grip. Frankly if my thump were any longer it would be hard to get to so I think a shorter thumb would be fine. I can also just barely work the slide release without breaking my grip, with any shorter of a thumb this would likely not be possible.

So, for MY P-07, out of the box, I’d say this ia an OK but not really noteworthy quality factory trigger. For ~$520 out-the-door from a bricks-and-wortar specialty gun shop, I can’t really complain. Is a 10+/4+ lb DA/SA without too much creep mind blowing? Not for me, but is has potential for significant improvement.

Am I better off with this than an out-of-the-box Glock trigger? Meh. Is it better than a light tuned, relatively smooth Glock trigger (say 3.5 - 4.0 lb) - definitely not, although the heavy DA might be a good thing from a safety perspective, but it certainly has a cost in terms of the time and effort required to get off a quality first shot.

My CGW Pro Upgrade kit and replacement sights came in but I haven’t had time to install any of it. I also haven’t taken down the gun to measure the bushing; I have some mild concern that the kit bushing might not be the optimal choice but I can always buy another.

I did pick up a spare 17 and 19 round (spare) magazine. I’d prefer to find some kind of spacer for the 19 round mag. I also haven’t thought too much about AIWB and OWB holsters - I’d prefer to get the trigger to a much happer place before I invest much more.

I had a few minutes to release do a field trip and lubrication. The gun seemed quite dry.

Double Action fell to just over nine lbs, Single Action to just under 4 lbs. A little better...

[s0nspark]

If you are removing the surface hardening of a part, you have gone way, way, way too far. I’d suggest doing a little research.

I guess I didn't word that well - I do understand the surface hardening threshold ;-) My attempted point was more that you can tune a gun beyond its reliability threshold if you are too focused on particular results.

[Trukinjp13]

Got mine in this am. First thing I did was the Clusterfrak suggested break in. Greased and oiled her good. Dry fired da about 250-300 times. What a difference that made alone. Then I worked sa pull about 125-150 times. Also really helped with the sa pull.

I forgot how short the reset was in stock form. Coming from the lem is substantially shorter and now I do not know if I care about the srt kit. Gun feels great in hand, its been about 1 1/2 years since my last one. I am happy I came back to her.

Plan is CGW reliability parts and install duty spring kit. Call it good for now. I am glad I did not buy one fully kitted up from CGW. Thank you Cluster and s0nspark for helping stray me towards a mostly stock gun.

Also pic or did not happen right.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180722/013a36536f59f1ea6c5cf953fdbddcd3.jpg

[Mirolynmonbro]

Is the symptom of a bent trigger bar spring a light strike?

My issue is no strike, the hammer stops on the shelf and never contacts the primer.You can see what a trigger bar spring bent too far does by just pushing it out of the way and pulling the trigger. I don't think the issue you're having is being caused by this spring modification

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[GuanoLoco]

I had a few minutes to release do a field trip and lubrication. The gun seemed quite dry.

Double Action fell to just over nine lbs, Single Action to just under 4 lbs. A little better...

I installed the CGW pro-grade upgrade package (https://cajungunworks.com/product/p-07-p-09-pro-grade-package/) last night. It took a while to learn how to detail disassemble and reassemble the P-07 from the referenced “Installation Tutorial (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=63210.0)”. The videos are definitely not a detailed ‘how to’ guide nor do they describe the implications of the various parts and sub-kits included in the assembly, or anything about what to polish. I did leverage some other videos that I pulled off of YouTube for the slide and trigger return spring, which fortunately was very similar to my Tanfoglio Stock 2’s.

Trigger Warning: This process requires some knowledge, skills, tools (roll pin and ability to manufacture simple tools like slave pins and a slotted screwdriver), patience and an investment of time on the part of the installer. If this isn’t you, send it to CGW for installation. It will be $ well spent,

Nothing is said about polishing; that will have to be an exercise for another evening as it took me a good 4 hours to do a first time disassembly and reassembly with the CGW parts. Disassembly and reassembly should go considerably easier next time.

I also didn’t have time to replace the sights with the flat black arrears and front fiber optic.

I’ll admit that I don’t know much about CZ’s, but I am pretty familiar with Tanfoglio Stock 2’s, which are cousins to the CZ-75 models, BUT not at all that similar to the CZ Omega trigger system.

I installed the 15 lb golden ‘competition/range’ hammer spring as opposed to the 18 lb defense spring. I’m guessing more weight options are available from Wolff. For my purposes, if the gun will light off all of my reloaded hard CCI primers reliably I have little doubt it will light off federal HST 147 carry ammo.

I did not install any of the heavier springs. I will note this comment on the senior spring package.


These springs allow you to effortlessly tune your single action trigger pull on the P-07/09 and P-01 and 75B Omega. CGW .018″ wire diameter (yellow) and .020″ wire diameter (natural) sear springs allow an increase in the single action pull weight and prevent “hammer follow”. The OEM sear spring is .016″ wire diameter.

The bit about hammer follow got my attention, but I did decide to just leave the OEM, 0.016 inch spring installed.

I did measure the rouble action roller bearing when I pulled it, outer diameter was 0.223”. The supplied bearing was 0.225”. I am pleased as the web site states, on the page for the 97058-225 Roller Bearing P-07 P-09 (https://cajungunworks.com/product/97058-225-roller-bearing-p-07-p-09/)


TECH TIP: The OEM roller OD can vary quite a bit, ranging from .212″ – .225″. If possible, measure your OEM roller, ideally the CGW roller should have a slightly larger OD compared to the OEM roller. Call for tech support if needed.

I had a few issues, for example, when I incorrectly tried to use the ejector spring in the place of the sear spring and mangled it. I was able to repair it enough to get the operation working but I plan to replace it. I would also suggest labeling the pins and springs as you remove them as opposed to just tossing them in a bin like I did.

Also, reinstallation of the extractor was tricky as CZ doesn’t use a roll pin. It got a little dinged up when I removed it and I had to chuck it in a drill and slightly taper the ends to be able to reinstall it. The firing pin roll pin iwas also dinged up on removal, and I am glad that CGW supplied a heavier duty replacement.

So, after all that, the results:

Double Action fell to just over 8 lbs, with the same quarter inch of take up. I would not describe the double action pole as smooth, but I think this will improve with polishing. If I pull the trigger very slowly I can get six or more out of it, so I think there’s a lot of room for improvement here.

Reset is about a quarter inch, with an audible and tactile reset, then about 3/16 inch of take up , And that about a 16th inch relatively crisp, Single Action break of about 3.5 lbs.

The static single action is about the same, but with about 3/8 inch of take up as opposed to the quarter inch take up after the reset. There is a small touch of grittiness in that final 16th inch of travel, but I would not describe it as having any walls before the break.

So there is improvement. Actually its pretty good at speed, I don’t notice the DA grittiness which is my primary complaint at this point. So, not totally knocking my socks off, but reasonable given the nature and intended purpose of this handgun. If I could get to a meaningfully smoother double action and slightly smoother single action, at roughly 8 lbs DA/3.5 SA, RELIABLE, I think that I would be satisfied.

To be fair, I’m not easily satisfied, but sometimes you need to know when to leave well enough alone.

[ralph]

I installed the CGW pro-grade upgrade package (https://cajungunworks.com/product/p-07-p-09-pro-grade-package/) last night. It took a while to learn how to detail disassemble and reassemble the P-07 from the referenced “Installation Tutorial (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=63210.0)”. The videos are definitely not a detailed ‘how to’ guide nor do they describe the implications of the various parts and sub-kits included in the assembly, or anything about what to polish. I did leverage some other videos that I pulled off of YouTube for the slide and trigger return spring, which fortunately was very similar to my Tanfoglio Stock 2’s.

Trigger Warning: This process requires some knowledge, skills, tools (roll pin and ability to manufacture simple tools like slave pins and a slotted screwdriver), patience and an investment of time on the part of the installer. If this isn’t you, send it to CGW for installation. It will be $ well spent,

Nothing is said about polishing; that will have to be an exercise for another evening as it took me a good 4 hours to do a first time disassembly and reassembly with the CGW parts. Disassembly and reassembly should go considerably easier next time.

I also didn’t have time to replace the sights with the flat black arrears and front fiber optic.

I’ll admit that I don’t know much about CZ’s, but I am pretty familiar with Tanfoglio Stock 2’s, which are cousins to the CZ-75 models, BUT not at all that similar to the CZ Omega trigger system.

I installed the 15 lb golden ‘competition/range’ hammer spring as opposed to the 18 lb defense spring. I’m guessing more weight options are available from Wolff. For my purposes, if the gun will light off all of my reloaded hard CCI primers reliably I have little doubt it will light off federal HST 147 carry ammo.

I did not install any of the heavier springs. I will note this comment on the senior spring package.



The bit about hammer follow got my attention, but I did decide to just leave the OEM, 0.016 inch spring installed.

I did measure the rouble action roller bearing when I pulled it, outer diameter was 0.223”. The supplied bearing was 0.225”. I am pleased as the web site states, on the page for the 97058-225 Roller Bearing P-07 P-09 (https://cajungunworks.com/product/97058-225-roller-bearing-p-07-p-09/)



I had a few issues, for example, when I incorrectly tried to use the ejector spring in the place of the sear spring and mangled it. I was able to repair it enough to get the operation working but I plan to replace it. I would also suggest labeling the pins and springs as you remove them as opposed to just tossing them in a bin like I did.

Also, reinstallation of the extractor was tricky as CZ doesn’t use a roll pin. It got a little dinged up when I removed it and I had to chuck it in a drill and slightly taper the ends to be able to reinstall it. The firing pin roll pin iwas also dinged up on removal, and I am glad that CGW supplied a heavier duty replacement.

So, after all that, the results:

Double Action fell to just over 8 lbs, with the same quarter inch of take up. I would not describe the double action pole as smooth, but I think this will improve with polishing. If I pull the trigger very slowly I can get six or more out of it, so I think there’s a lot of room for improvement here.

Reset is about a quarter inch, with an audible and tactile reset, then about 3/16 inch of take up , And that about a 16th inch relatively crisp, Single Action break of about 3.5 lbs.

The static single action is about the same, but with about 3/8 inch of take up as opposed to the quarter inch take up after the reset. There is a small touch of grittiness in that final 16th inch of travel, but I would not describe it as having any walls before the break.

So there is improvement. Actually its pretty good at speed, I don’t notice the DA grittiness which is my primary complaint at this point. So, not totally knocking my socks off, but reasonable given the nature and intended purpose of this handgun. If I could get to a meaningfully smoother double action and slightly smoother single action, at roughly 8 lbs DA/3.5 SA, RELIABLE, I think that I would be satisfied.

To be fair, I’m not easily satisfied, but sometimes you need to know when to leave well enough alone.

Guanol Loco:
Could you elaborate a bit on installing the TRS, I have a few parts coming for my P07, includung a reduced power TRS. My plan was to use some modified needlenose pliers thar HK Parts.net sells just for replacing TRS's in HK's. Having used them before in CZ's I've found they work quite well. My plan for replacing the stock TRS was, drive the trigger pin out to the left, until the TRS can be removed leaving one side of the trigger still on the pin, using the pliers, simply put the straight leg of the spring into the hole in the trigger, and push down, and start the bent leg into the slot in the frame, push down until the pin will clear, hold, and push the pin through.. Myself, I'm not going the pro grade package route.. just replacing the firing pin, and spring, as well as the firing pin block spring, TRS, and install a #18 hammer spring, and get the barrel, and slide stop nitrided (I do not like the in the white chamber, feed ramp CZ left on the barrel) Due to the current rukus going on with modded P09's, I'm recluctant to go any farther, as I plan to use this as a CCW..

[timotab]

Guanol Loco:
Could you elaborate a bit on installing the TRS, I have a few parts coming for my P07, includung a reduced power TRS. My plan was to use some modified needlenose pliers thar HK Parts.net sells just for replacing TRS's in HK's. Having used them before in CZ's I've found they work quite well. My plan for replacing the stock TRS was, drive the trigger pin out to the left, until the TRS can be removed leaving one side of the trigger still on the pin, using the pliers, simply put the straight leg of the spring into the hole in the trigger, and push down, and start the bent leg into the slot in the frame, push down until the pin will clear, hold, and push the pin through.. Myself, I'm not going the pro grade package route.. just replacing the firing pin, and spring, as well as the firing pin block spring, TRS, and install a #18 hammer spring, and get the barrel, and slide stop nitrided (I do not like the in the white chamber, feed ramp CZ left on the barrel) Due to the current rukus going on with modded P09's, I'm recluctant to go any farther, as I plan to use this as a CCW..

I fashioned a slave pin out of a q-tip shaft to reinstall the TRS. Cut to match the width of the trigger, works very well.

[miller_man]

I fashioned a slave pin out of a q-tip shaft to reinstall the TRS. Cut to match the width of the trigger, works very well.

Did just this the three times I've swapped them out - will confirm this is a very easy trick that works well.

[s0nspark]

I fashioned a slave pin out of a q-tip shaft to reinstall the TRS. Cut to match the width of the trigger, works very well.

I have a spare hammer pin I use now but I used a piece of a toothpick the first time.

Regardless of method, a slave pin of some sort makes this much easier.

[GuanoLoco]

I fashioned a slave pin out of a q-tip shaft to reinstall the TRS. Cut to match the width of the trigger, works very well.

I have to do this pretty regular with Tanfogios. The slave pain is definitely the trick. A Q-tip shift works. A little bit of the stem of a bottle of WD-40 or Hornady one shot works well. The best is a piece of drill bit shaft cut to size with a Dremel or whatever.

The slave pin that I had made from a drill bit shaft for my Tanfoglio worked perfectly. I was watching a video on it and literally had it out put back together, installed back in the gun before half the video was even over. Without a slave pin be prepared for a lot of frustration and the distinct potential of launching your trigger return spring into parts unknown.

[Clusterfrack]

The “9” pin from a CZ75 action works great as a slave pin.

[GuanoLoco]

I got in a live fire session today - Stock 2, CZ P-07, Glock 19 and back to the Stock 2. I still have the tritium suppressor height sights on so that was a bit of a friction factor.

With the P-07 I worked from low ready as I don’t have a holster. The DA seemed a tad slow but acceptable, I wasn’t overly aware of the weight or residual grit at speed, but it definitely slowed me down a tenth or two. The SA was fine, I didn’t notice anything except maybe the short reset on Bill Drills.

Drills: Bill drills on 8” steel at 7 yards, Dot Drill at 5 yards, some transitions between 12 yard steel placed 10 yards apart. All good speed/accuracy size given contraints, but I would benefit from improvements to the grip. Perhaps a baseplate to wedge my hand in better, perhaps stippling on the front/back strap. I’m not real keen on grip tape on carry guns - it eats everything up.

I’m not sure the Short Reset Trigger is at all required on a carry gun, but I like it. I’m also not sure that I couldn’t have taken the DA from 9+ to 8 lbs, and 4+ to 3.5 lbs with just a hammer spring. I’ll probably try just that on a P-01 Omega that I have.

Reliability was 100% with case gauged practice ammo - bascally 126-127 power factor 9mm, 124 gr ACME polymer coated bullets with relatively hard deep seated primers loaded to abut 1.135” +/-, all in mixed brass. More testing is required, but I take no exception to the 15 lb ‘range/competition’ hammer spring at this point.

[Clusterfrack]

GuanoLoco, try Tractiongrips. $10.
https://www.amazon.com/Tractiongrips-grip-overlay-decal-Duty/dp/B01312ZRJ2/

[GuanoLoco]

GuanoLoco, try Tractiongrips. $10.
https://www.amazon.com/Tractiongrips-grip-overlay-decal-Duty/dp/B01312ZRJ2/

Fine, spend my money, see if I care. Ordered.

[LG_rocks]

I handled a P-07 today for the first time. I was expecting it to feel fat. But it felt surprisingly thin, which I am happy about. Unfortunately I could not dry fire because Academy has a policy against dry firing in the store.
I also handled the PX4 Compact, back to back with the P-07 and really prefer the feel of the P-07, at least grip wise.

Seriously considering the P-07 to replace my recently acquired Springfield XD-E. The XD-E handles good, but the way the trigger is shaped, in conjunction with my short-ish fingers, I have a very hard time with trigger reach. The position of the decocker on the XD-E is also a bit of trouble. It is too close to the web of my hand to reliably decock with my strong hand thumb.

I do like the single stack width of the XD-E. But I'm thinking there isn't going to be much difference for me between the XD-E and the P-07 for AIWB. Especially in a good holster from JMCK. Heck, the XD-E weighs in at 25.3 oz.(empty w/8r mag) which is almost same as the P-07.

[GuanoLoco]

I installed the 92050 Dawson Precision Fiber Optic Sight Set CZ P-07 P-09 (https://cajungunworks.com/product/92050-competition-grade-all-steel-sight-set-p-0709-series/) tonight. For my interests, these are way more useful, although I still like the extra height of the suppressor-style heights quite a bit.

I also put on the largest backstrap to better fit my size XL hands. Both changes made me happier - stronger grip + sights I am familiar with a much faster with.

I re-measured with the trigger gauge - 7 lb 15 oz DA, 3 lb 6 oz SA, pretty consistent. Some quick dry fire was promising.

I need a window of time for some research on P-07 polishing, then another disassembly / polish and reassembly session. I think this is goign well enough to invest in an AIWB and maybe OWB holster.

[timotab]

Just finished working on P07 #2. I installed the following.

- CZC Extended firing pin
- CZC Reduced power FPS
- CGW TRS
- CGW cross pin for firing pin
- CGW 0.220 DA roller

All told its about $60 in parts. After some polishing, with an 18# mainspring, DA=8# and SA=3#, with a 14# mainspring DA=6.25 and SA=2.5#.


https://www.instagram.com/p/Blg28YUjHqA/

[Redhat]

Has anyone heard how these guns are working out for Mike Pannone? I seem to remember he started using them some years back.

[timotab]

Has anyone heard how these guns are working out for Mike Pannone? I seem to remember he started using them some years back.

He still is. Has several P07 and P09 pistols he uses in his classes.

[Trukinjp13]

Shot 150 rounds through the p07 last night. Have around 600 dryfires in her between da/sa. Trigger has smoothed out a ton from the dryfire and greasing the Hell out of it. I need to break it down and clean all the grease out when I get the cgw parts in.

No issues so far. 50 rnds 115grn blazer and 100 rnds 147 federal fmj. Tried to reef on the trigger and get a failure but no dice. Forgot how soft shooting it is. Definitely softer than the p10c. Da or sa did not seem to matter it was very accurate and is easy to shoot fast. Only complaint is the lack of texture. But I have grip tape for it, need to install.

Very happy with it and it should really make a difference with just a couple parts changes. Still undecided on the srt kit. The reset is very good on it and did not seem to affect me at all. May end up installing since a shorter reset is not a bad thing to me.

Some comparison pics between urban grey brothers. I prefer the sights on the p10c. Sights look cleaner, rear tritium is more subdued, the rear also has a better shelf on it. Front seems to pop a lil more from the p10c as well.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/5b78e0651845fe5a3eed527f5be4d944.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/77f348a9bb18df0822c766a64a27f752.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/42337398b6d0259069cab9425f4217d3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/89b22dc289b12893aebe2e3051bc502d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/48496e044ddf2fff9d6c511055275b9e.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/2eb8ffe2fbee2d81b74a93c0c5669afc.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/df3b9b3f3dc2ba973134242c2aafded5.jpg
The p07 mag is on the right and p10c is on the left. There are extra slots cut in p07 mags.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180725/1add56ca58a20c915ee60cec4d557d72.jpg

[Lon]

I tried to replicate GJM’s issue with my CGW’d (their parts, my work) P07 last night. Couldn’t get it to replicate.

[ralph]

I tried to replicate GJM’s issue with my CGW’d (their parts, my work) P07 last night. Couldn’t get it to replicate.

Neither can I, I've come to the conclusion that at least part of the problem, (possibly a large part) GJM has/had, was due to how his hands interacted with the pistol. I'd like to see the issue investgated a little further by CZ,CZUSA, and find out what the root cause was. But, for about 99% of the folks who buy these, I don't think there'll be a problem.. After all, if was a widespread issue, I'd think it would've came out before now...

[Trukinjp13]

Typed hours ago and auto saved...things have developed since then lmao

[UniSol]

Put about 125 rounds of various 147 gr HST, 124 gr +p and standard pressure gold dot, Hornady Critical Duty, and Fiochi 115 gr through a brand new P07 working out of a JMCK plain AIWB. The P07 shoots very soft and fast in my hands, as long as I'm paying attention to my support hand and not being sloppy. I wasnt doing anything other than vetting the gun with different types of ammo and getting a feel for it at a busy indoor range, so not a whole lot else I can contribute, but it's meeting expectations so far. I need to do more strong hand only shooting.

[GuanoLoco]

I installed the 92050 Dawson Precision Fiber Optic Sight Set CZ P-07 P-09 (https://cajungunworks.com/product/92050-competition-grade-all-steel-sight-set-p-0709-series/) tonight. For my interests, these are way more useful, although I still like the extra height of the suppressor-style heights quite a bit.

I also put on the largest backstrap to better fit my size XL hands. Both changes made me happier - stronger grip + sights I am familiar with a much faster with.

I re-measured with the trigger gauge - 7 lb 15 oz DA, 3 lb 6 oz SA, pretty consistent. Some quick dry fire was promising.

I need a window of time for some research on P-07 polishing, then another disassembly / polish and reassembly session. I think this is goign well enough to invest in an AIWB and maybe OWB holster.

TractionGrips installed. Interesting, a textured plastic feel and not the skate-tape type abrasive that I was looking to avoid. I think it is better than stock, not as aggressive as I’d like but that would require stippling.

I fine-tune adjusted the new sights at the range today. They hit a smidge low with 124gr but would likely be right on with heavier HST 147 gr bullets which is what I would notmally carry. IIRC heavier bullets usually hit a little higher.

I ran some more Bill Drills and put out a couple of 0.16s splits - faster than my normal low of 0.18. I’ll attribute that to the short reset trigger and a light gun. Not sure I could repeat it but an interesting data point. My draws still seem a bit slow with the DA pull but it’s hard to work these without a proper holster and I’m not calibrated for low ready.

I still need to do the internals polish job. I have a JMCK 2.5 AIWB holster on order; might be a while as the config for a P-09 wasn’t a Quick Ship item.

PS> I ran maybe 7 mags (various sizes) - 100% reliable with CCI primers.

[Trukinjp13]

So I just wanted to measure my roller for da. Then it sort of snowballed. I like the simplicity of the omega system and hope that the one bobble it has can be permanently rectified so NO ONE has a issue. Now contemplating if I want the pro grade since it is stripped.

My plan was srt and duty spring kit with reliability parts added in. But the price is not much different from the full kit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180731/8b3599ea90e3f7138ed5c81c3c7c1239.jpg

[ralph]

So I just wanted to measure my roller for da. Then it sort of snowballed. I like the simplicity of the omega system and hope that the one bobble it has can be permanently rectified so NO ONE has a issue. Now contemplating if I want the pro grade since it is stripped.

My plan was srt and duty spring kit with reliability parts added in. But the price is not much different from the full kit.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180731/8b3599ea90e3f7138ed5c81c3c7c1239.jpg


I'd just get the full kit, it has everything you want, Honestly I think the Pro grade kit is a better value for the money..

[Trukinjp13]

I'd just get the full kit, it has everything you want, Honestly I think the Pro grade kit is a better value for the money..

I am leaning heavily on this.

[timotab]

I'm debating if Omega gun #3 will be another 07 or if I should get an 09. 1st world problems man.

[Trukinjp13]

I'm debating if Omega gun #3 will be another 07 or if I should get an 09. 1st world problems man.

I have been debating about picking up a p09 for rds action.

[timotab]

I can't tell a huge difference with the SRT kit installed vs. stock. Maybe some in dry fire but even less when shooting. The parts are excellent, look to be EDM'd vs. the stock MIM, and might add a bit to the smoothness of the action.

I feel the extended firing pin and lighter mainspring make the biggest difference, outside of polishing or dryfiring, in shootability. The CGW rollers are nice and help with the DA pull.

That being said, you won't be disappointed with the pro kit, especially if you prefer a crisp trigger. The stock rolling trigger has really grown on me. Feels a bit like a Geisele SD3G.

[Trukinjp13]

Pro grade ordered, asked for the .220 roller instead of .225. May end up having rmr 2 installed so I am leaving sights alone for now.

Also bought a few p10c goodies while I was at it.

[Clusterfrack]

I just tested various primers and loads in my ProGrade P-07 with 15lb mainspring.

These fired with no issues:
HST, Ranger Bonded factory loads
Win, Rem, CCI primed reloads

CCI #41 military primers required 2 strikes to fire.

Good to go!

[GuanoLoco]

CCI #41 military primers required 2 strikes to fire.



What is your seating depth?

[Clusterfrack]

What is your seating depth?

Max. I seat until the primer is marked then back off.

[Clusterfrack]

This $8.00 tool helps with installing the decocker spring.

Spring Bar Tool Set with Extra 6 Tips... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016A8I8HC?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/9d0ef5ca82c2d3db27cb2a9df5bf5798.png

Plus you get a bunch of extra watch band pins.

[Trukinjp13]

This $8.00 tool helps with installing the decocker spring.

Spring Bar Tool Set with Extra 6 Tips... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016A8I8HC?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/9d0ef5ca82c2d3db27cb2a9df5bf5798.png

Plus you get a bunch of extra watch band pins.

What did you use these for? You linked em in the other thread.
Red Iron Tactical Roll Pin Starter Punch Set Hollow End Stainless Steel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY48HW7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_4q5yBbAB201D4

[Clusterfrack]

What did you use these for? You linked em in the other thread.
Red Iron Tactical Roll Pin Starter Punch Set Hollow End Stainless Steel https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MY48HW7/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_4q5yBbAB201D4

To insert the extractor pin on my Shadows. I haven’t used it on my P07s yet.

[opmike]

I've probably taken my P-07 apart no less than 30 times now. I've found it easier to slip that decocker spring under the little "leg" before fully sliding it into the frame.

[Greg]

I just tested various primers and loads in my ProGrade P-07 with 15lb mainspring.

These fired with no issues:
HST, Ranger Bonded factory loads
Win, Rem, CCI primed reloads

CCI #41 military primers required 2 strikes to fire.

Good to go!

If you get bored, try some Rooski trash like Wolf or Tul ammo.

[miller_man]

If you get bored, try some Rooski trash like Wolf or Tul ammo.

I've got about 1k or so of tullammo through my P-09 with the 15lb spring - no issues yet for me. Plus another few hundred through another p-09 with the 18lb spring.

Been thinking of ordering a case of this stuff just to blast with and see how it performs - pretty dirt cheap stuff. https://www.sgammo.com/product/barnaul/special-purchase-1000-rounds-9mm-luger-115-grain-fmj-white-box-lacquered-steel-case-

[Greg]

I think it's safe to say you won't encounter a harder primer than what you're getting in Wolf or Tul.

My P-07s with 18 pound hammer springs have been solid with the Wolf/Tul rounds. Thanks for the info on the 15 pound springs also working.

The 20 pound OEM hammer springs are overkill IMHO. I LIKE a little overkill so I'm keeping the 18s in mine.

[cheby]

Tula primers are not hard. They are actually softer than CCI

[GuanoLoco]

Tula primers are not hard. They are actually softer than CCI

The problem in my last experience with Tula primers is that a small percentage are made of unexplodium, which makes you THINK they are super hard. When you periodically ruin a practice run (wasting # shots x cost per round) because of this, you eventually learn that buying Tula primers to reduce cost is NOT an effective way to save money.

[cheby]

The problem in my last experience with Tula primers is that a small percentage are made of unexplodium, which makes you THINK they are super hard. When you periodically ruin a practice run (wasting # shots x cost per round) because of this, you eventually learn that buying Tula primers to reduce cost is NOT an effective way to save money.
That's true

[miller_man]

Tula primers are not hard. They are actually softer than CCI

I had suspected that for awhile. While I'll never tout tul ammo as anything good - for me, it does work as cheap range blasting stuff - for someone who doesn't reload.

[Trukinjp13]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180807/5b79ecfaa4905352298c83f4289b9f76.jpg

She is now Cajunized. Pro Grade with stainless guiderod and a 15# recoil spring(what I had for p10, ordering 18#)

Trigger is a huge improvement. Very smooth and da is definitely lighter. Installed 18# hammer spring and the lighter sear. May need heavier because the sa is lighhhttttt. I am a happy happy man. Just need to test it out now. Install was pretty easy. Very much a fan of the omega system.

Traction grips are a big no go for me. Talons kill em as far as grip goes. I should include that I have been using the sandpaper type talons. The rubber granulates are very close to these traction grips.

[LG_rocks]

I’m about to pick up a mid 2014 built P-07 for what I think is an excellent price at under $400.

Did a little research and couldn’t find any info about whether there have been any updates or changes since the P-07 Gen 2’s came out.

Do you guys have an idea if an older P-07 is as good to go as a new 2018 built model?

[GJM]

I’m about to pick up a mid 2014 built P-07 for what I think is an excellent price at under $400.

Did a little research and couldn’t find any info about whether there have been any updates or changes since the P-07 Gen 2’s came out.

Do you guys have an idea if an older P-07 is as good to go as a new 2018 built model?

Is it a “P07” or a P07 “Duty?” Duty is older model.

[Greg]

Is it a “P07” or a P07 “Duty?” Duty is older model.

Skip the "Duty" model. (Think Doodie)

Frames had weird melty issues ( like FNs) and other quirks.

[Lon]

I’m about to pick up a mid 2014 built P-07 for what I think is an excellent price at under $400.

Did a little research and couldn’t find any info about whether there have been any updates or changes since the P-07 Gen 2’s came out.

Do you guys have an idea if an older P-07 is as good to go as a new 2018 built model?

I don't think the older Duty slides had front cocking serrations. The new one do. If it doesn't have the serrations, I'd rethink it.

[LG_rocks]

Is it a “P07” or a P07 “Duty?” Duty is older model.

It’s a P07 2nd version. Not Duty(doodie).

Has front cocking serrations.

[s0nspark]

It’s a P07 2nd version. Not Duty(doodie).

Has front cocking serrations.

To my knowledge, there have been no notable changes between the original 2nd gen guns and current production. You should be good to go.

[LG_rocks]

To my knowledge, there have been no notable changes between the original 2nd gen guns and current production. You should be good to go.

Thanks guys. Going to go check it out tomorrow. Low round count <100 and sounds well cared for.

[pew_pew]

What are some modern serial numbers? Or is there a test fire date in the box? My dealer has a P07 that’s new but wondering if it’s been there a long time. The tag is all faded and seems like it’s been finger banged a bunch.

Looking to try something new out.
P07
VP9
or PPQ

[LG_rocks]

What are some modern serial numbers? Or is there a test fire date in the box? My dealer has a P07 that’s new but wondering if it’s been there a long time. The tag is all faded and seems like it’s been finger banged a bunch.

Looking to try something new out.
P07
VP9
or PPQ

There is(should be) a test fire target pattern in the box with date.

IMO lots of dry fires isn’t a bad thing because the trigger has some time on it, and smoothed out. Then again it might need a new CGW firing pin now.

[LG_rocks]

Thanks guys. Going to go check it out tomorrow. Low round count <100 and sounds well cared for.

I picked up my new(4 year old) P07 today. Love the feel in hand. Looking forward to range time asap. Thanks for the help!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/161f6f818bfa2632b686bf7886b9ca15.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180817/d9734e871c6f771186480a8bada1c65b.jpg

[pangloss]

IMO lots of dry fires isn’t a bad thing because the trigger has some time on it, and smoothed out. Then again it might need a new CGW firing pin now.

Order a couple of CGW trigger return springs while you're at it. I've broken two factory TRSs on my 75 Omega through dry firing.



Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

New JMCK OWB 2 in brown Raptor for the P-07. This will be my backcountry rig.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180827/47e4c9872dbfaf16039ba4d8dd7af4ef.jpg

[GuanoLoco]

This $8.00 tool helps with installing the decocker spring.

Spring Bar Tool Set with Extra 6 Tips... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B016A8I8HC?ref=yo_pop_ma_swf

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180802/9d0ef5ca82c2d3db27cb2a9df5bf5798.png

Plus you get a bunch of extra watch band pins.

Kudos for the tip - that tool is awesome, although I found the “fat” side handier.

[GuanoLoco]

I installed the 92050 Dawson Precision Fiber Optic Sight Set CZ P-07 P-09 (https://cajungunworks.com/product/92050-competition-grade-all-steel-sight-set-p-0709-series/) tonight. For my interests, these are way more useful, although I still like the extra height of the suppressor-style heights quite a bit.

I also put on the largest backstrap to better fit my size XL hands. Both changes made me happier - stronger grip + sights I am familiar with a much faster with.

I re-measured with the trigger gauge - 7 lb 15 oz DA, 3 lb 6 oz SA, pretty consistent. Some quick dry fire was promising.

I need a window of time for some research on P-07 polishing, then another disassembly / polish and reassembly session. I think this is going well enough to invest in an AIWB and maybe OWB holster.

I previously installed the 97098 Pro-Grade Upgrade Kit P-07 P-09 (https://cajungunworks.com/product/p-07-p-09-pro-grade-package/), which claims:


All the parts for elevating your P-07/09 to a Professional Grade level of performance. Delivers a superb, crisp, 1911 like SA, 8.8 – 8.12 pound DA, and reduces the SA reset an amazing 50% for effortless double-taps. Install this kit and you’ll be outshooting firearms that cost 2-3 times more. Turns your P-07 P-09 into a world class pistol. All CGW parts carry a lifetime warranty.

I’d say I agree with CGW’s claims, but there was noticeable creep in the DA trigger that I wasn’t really happy with, so this past week I went though the polishing process using this reference: The Original CZ Forum: How to Tune, Smooth and Upgrade the P-07/P-09 (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=66147.0). So far I’ve only had time to do the lower. I haven’t done the slide and safety plunger yet, and, while I relieved the trigger bar spring, I didn’t relieve it as much as was in the picture.

New results: On the DA the trigger gauge goes to the full pull weight early then swings through to completion without increasing in weight, therefore there is little/no stacking. Pulling the trigger slowly there is very little creep,, and pulling it through normally I detect no creep. DA pull weight is averaging about 7.5 lbs but there is more variability than before so I think I am still breaking it in post polish job. SA is running a pretty consistent 3.0 lbs and smooth.

I’m not done with the polish job but I think this is more than serviceable at this point. I need to take it out for a spin on the range and run a few hundred rounds though it with my CCI (hard) primers reloads.

My JMCK 2.5 P-09 holster came in - Thanks Tony Mayer!!!

I prefer the slightly longer holster plus it also covers the longer suppressor-ready barrel perfectly. I did this one without the pad as I am finding even trimmed down pads on my JMCK 2.5/Glock 17 (G19 pistol) pads a little uncomfortable on my bony-ass pelvic region. Comfort on this new holster seems better than the Glock for whatever reason (I think the butt of the gun rides slightly higher), and the new style claw with replaceable offset seems like a good idea as well.

Access to the grip on this holster is strong, comfort seems good wearing it around the house all day. I need to test the gun thoroughly before I’ll be willing to carry it for real, but I am hopeful this is goign to work out.

Next up: Some fine tuning and a lot of reliability testing and some G19 vs. P-07 speed/accuracy testing from equivalent AIWB holsters.

[GuanoLoco]

A few more details - I used a piece of glass to polish the trigger bar and flat parts, and I used progressive 400-800-1200-2000-3000 grit sandpaper vs. my usual 2000 grit max, keepoing the item very flat against the paper/glass surface and moving ina. Figure-8 motion. Note Amazon deals on packs of variable grit sandpaper are better than ever - more pieces and a wider range of grits are available than in past years.

When I used the dremel and buff wheel I was using the 5-stage solid colored polishing compounds. For pin holes I used the dremel and pieces of cut-off Q-tip loaded with Simichrome polishing compound liquid paste. For larger items I chucked them in the drill and used the 2000-3000 grit sandpaper.

With respect to the trigger bar spring I just bent it mostly at the sharpest bend then re-thought it and spread out the bend over a wider area. I have a stack of inexpensive spares and they are relatively easily replaced so I have no fear to experimenting. It didn’t occur to me to polish the end of the spring which makes contact with the trigger bar, and and side of the trigger bar where the spring contacts it. I’ll take care of this in a future polishign pass.

I am also idly curious to see whether the pistol would be reliable with hard CCI primers with the competition hammer spring. I might have to give this a try. If it could run hundreds or thousands of roungs of hard-ass CCI’s (my Tanfo’s aren’t even 100% with them) in practice sessions (I’m not always kind to my practice gear) I’d have plenty of confidence that they would pop Federal HST’s.

On the holster I am very pleaed with the concealability, especially with combined with my new Graith Specialist belt, thanks Mack!

[Clusterfrack]

My Prograde P07 fires CCI primers with no problem.

[GJM]

Since the Pro Grade kit includes a roller, and we now know that the proper roller size varies by pistol, and is essential to reliable double action function, how are those of you installing these parts determining whether you have the proper roller size?

[Clusterfrack]

The medium roller that came with my kit worked. 2400 rounds now with no failures.

[GJM]

The medium roller that came with my kit worked. 2400 rounds now with no failures.

Keep an eye on it with wear, because my problems materialized with my high round count USPSA CO practice program.

[Clusterfrack]

I can repeat the drop to half cock at will with my guns and my buddy’s. All require the finger to hit the frame just as the sear breaks. It’s much easier with a light hammer spring, but a very contrived trigger pull for me. I’m not convinced that wear is a major factor.

[ncrockclimb]

Maybe I missed it, but has anyone posted a video of this? I am having trouble visualizing how to make this malfunction occur.

Edit to add:
I have 5500 rounds through my P09 with a Cajun Pro Package and have not had a single failure. I'm not doubting the issue others are having, rather just adding another data point.

[Trukinjp13]

Since the Pro Grade kit includes a roller, and we now know that the proper roller size varies by pistol, and is essential to reliable double action function, how are those of you installing these parts determining whether you have the proper roller size?

This is a good question. When I bought mine I went off what they suggested. Just go to the next size up. So I ordered the pro grade but specified my roller size. Since the kit came with a designated roller. I needed a .220 since my stock was barely smaller. The kit uses a .225 I believe which is a good step up from my factory roller.

Now that we have all the new info out though. I am curious what is the best test to finding correct roller size. And also if going to big in roller size deviates too far from the factory supplied roller for some. As in causing issues when maybe a smaller size may not. Or vice versa.

[GuanoLoco]

Since the Pro Grade kit includes a roller, and we now know that the proper roller size varies by pistol, and is essential to reliable double action function, how are those of you installing these parts determining whether you have the proper roller size?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12944-New-CZ-P-07-Mind-Blown&p=765372&viewfull=1#post765372

CGW Tech Tip:
TECH TIP: The OEM roller OD can vary quite a bit, ranging from .212″ – .225″. If possible, measure your OEM roller, ideally the CGW roller should have a slightly larger OD compared to the OEM roller. Call for tech support if needed.

GuanoLoco:
I did measure the rouble action roller bearing when I pulled it, outer diameter was 0.223”. The supplied bearing was 0.225”. I am pleased as the web site states, on the page for the 97058-225 Roller Bearing P-07 P-09

I tried to replicate the issue you describe, once again I was unsuccessful. Maybe I’m not doing it right.

[GuanoLoco]

My Prograde P07 fires CCI primers with no problem.

Same for my first round of testing with the lighter definsive hammer spring. I’m curious what the competition hammer spring would do in terms of reliability and DA trigger pull. Not sure if it would change SA much.

[GJM]

I can repeat the drop to half cock at will with my guns and my buddy’s. All require the finger to hit the frame just as the sear breaks. It’s much easier with a light hammer spring, but a very contrived trigger pull for me. I’m not convinced that wear is a major factor.

Cajun thinks so, and my two of my Pro Grade P09 pistols went from not doing it to doing it frequently. The third P09 with the issue did it from the get go. Exactly what is causing it, what the fix is, and how wear factors in seems clear as mud right now.

[miller_man]

Exactly what is causing it, what the fix is, and how wear factors in seems clear as mud right now.

Not what I got from my phone call with CGW this last week. Cause and fix are said to be known and fix with new parts is said to be on the way and available after testing.

[GJM]

Cajun thinks so, and my two of my Pro Grade P09 pistols went from not doing it to doing it frequently. The third P09 with the issue did it from the get go. Exactly what is causing it, what the fix is, and how wear factors in seems clear as mud right now.


Not what I got from my phone call with CGW this last week. Cause and fix are said to be known and fix with new parts is said to be on the way and available after testing.

Depends upon who you are asking, and the sentiment I expressed above was my opinion. Let's consider the history, and who has thought what and when.

CZ and CZ USA -- still to hear a peep out of them as to this issue.

Me -- was completely unaware of it, despite having multiple P07 and P09 pistols for years. I only noticed it after I begin shooting the P09 a high volume, in USPSA competition and training. The frequency went from extremely rare, to frequent, which I attribute to wear.

CGW -- Initially they said they had never heard of it. Then they were aware of it only very rarely. Then it was common enough they are checking pistols for it. It is reportedly related to roller size, and that needs to be size fit based on tolerance stacking of an individual pistol. Now it is something that may require machining the sear and they have a new part in the works, although I am unclear what exact part that is.

PF -- It went from some freakishly rare thing that only I was experiencing, to incompetence by CGW in installing their parts, to something off about my hand shape, to something about the timing of how I press the trigger.

I am standing by my original position, of clear as mud.

[ralph]

Depends upon who you are asking, and the sentiment I expressed above was my opinion. Let's consider the history, and who has thought what and when.

CZ and CZ USA -- still to hear a peep out of them as to this issue.

Me -- was completely unaware of it, despite having multiple P07 and P09 pistols for years. I only noticed it after I begin shooting the P09 a high volume, in USPSA competition and training. The frequency went from extremely rare, to frequent, which I attribute to wear.

CGW -- Initially they said they had never heard of it. Then they were aware of it only very rarely. Then it was common enough they are checking pistols for it. It is reportedly related to roller size, and that needs to be size fit based on tolerance stacking of an individual pistol. Now it is something that may require machining the sear and they have a new part in the works, although I am unclear what exact part that is.

PF -- It went from some freakishly rare thing that only I was experiencing, to incompetence by CGW in installing their parts, to something off about my hand shape, to something about the timing of how I press the trigger.

I am standing by my original position, of clear as mud.


Because of all of this my P07 is regulated to range only, until a viable fix is available from CGW, even though I've not been able to replicate the issue in my P07.. I doubt CZ will ever admit there is a problem here, I suspect that they'll let CGW do all the grunt work, and simply copy, or closely copy it..

[Clusterfrack]

I still see this more like hitting the slide stop while firing the gun. Lots of ways to make a gun not fire, and hitting the frame with my trigger finger just as the sear breaks is low on that list.

If CGW makes a part to prevent the issue, I’ll get one and try it on my ProGrade P07. But I doubt I’ll install one on my stock P07 that I usually carry.

[s0nspark]

I doubt CZ will ever admit there is a problem here, I suspect that they'll let CGW do all the grunt work, and simply copy, or closely copy it..

... or just do nothing. They still include an overly soft FP retaining pin and a TRS with a history of failure, after all.

[ralph]

... or just do nothing. They still include an overly soft FP retaining pin and a TRS with a history of failure, after all.

Let's not forget there's probably a good reason why CZ is mute on the subject..Admitting there's a problem is also admitting that you manfactured a product that you knew was defective,and that could land you as a company, in alot of hot water..So, the thing to do is, say nothing publicy, and have your R&D Dept. do some research, if CGW comes up with a fix first, buy some of their parts, study them, make copies that are just different enough to skirt patent infringment laws.. and then,start installing them on current production. And when a older P07-09 comes back for repair, quietly install these parts..

[s0nspark]

Let's not forget there's probably a good reason why CZ is mute on the subject..Admitting there's a problem is also admitting that you manfactured a product that you knew was defective,and that could land you as a company, in alot of hot water.

Sure. There may be liability concerns in play, and sometimes the 'business' of guns does not jive with the consumer's best interests.

That is just business, though. Very few companies 'do the right thing' when it is costly unless somehow pressured to do so. *cough* P320 *cough*


So, the thing to do is, say nothing publicy, and have your R&D Dept. do some research, if CGW comes up with a fix, buy some of the parts, study them, make copies that are just different enough to skirt patent infringment laws.. and then, when a P07-09 comes back for repair, quietly install these parts.

I just have a hard time thinking that CZ will expend any real effort assimilating aftermarket fixes for what they can arguably consider a fringe issue.

Do I agree with that stance? No. Not at all. The more I've considered this issue, the more unhappy I am that it is an issue for anyone at all to begin with.

[ralph]

Sure. There may be liability concerns in play, and sometimes the 'business' of guns does not jive with the consumer's best interests.

That is just business, though. Very few companies 'do the right thing' when it is costly unless somehow pressured to do so. *cough* P320 *cough*



I just have a hard time thinking that CZ will expend any real effort assimilating aftermarket fixes for what they can arguably consider a fringe issue.

Do I agree with that stance? No. Not at all. The more I've considered this issue, the more unhappy I am that it is an issue for anyone at all to begin with.

If they think it's enough of a problem, they'll incorporate a fix into their manfacturing process..a good example of this, if I remember correctly,(somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on this) was with Apex Tactical and their M&P sears, when they brought them out, they were a huge sucess.. Randy Lee for reasons I have no idea why, apparently did'nt file a patent pending, or apply for a patent on the sear, or who knows, maybe they came to some sort of agreement..anyway, it wasn't long before S&W copied it..

The question here is, if someone can resolve the issue for them, why would'nt they copy it? As far as it being a fringe issue, you're probably right, that's CZ's take on it.. for now.. to this day I've yet to see a peep about this issue over at the CZ forum.. I'm guessing that outside of this board, the problem is'nt well known, and just blown off as a anomaly when it does happen. I'm sure CZ's quite happy to keep it that way.. It does make you wonder.. for example, why do they still use those cheap roll pins to hold the firing pin in place, when the pins CGW uses are so much better? It could'nt cost THAT much to use a higher quality pin, Little things like that, I don't get.. CZ could easily become a first rate pistol, but to do that, they have to shed some of their second rate manfacturing methods..

[ncrockclimb]

So... I was able to replicate this issue with my p09. It was VERY easy once you know what to do. Although I have over 5500 rounds without so much as a hickup on my p09, I feel that this issue is not acceptable. I honestly cannot see myself carrying this or my P07 with this type of malfunction being possible...

[GuanoLoco]

It does make you wonder.. for example, why do they still use those cheap roll pins to hold the firing pin in place, when the pins CGW uses are so much better? It could'nt cost THAT much to use a higher quality pin.

Why do they use a roll pin for this at all - most irritating.

On a P-07/P-09 you apparently need to use a metric 3mm pilot punch - the too-small SAE punch will damage even the CGW pin and the next size up doesn't fit.

Ask me how I know.

Ordering a 3mm punch now. Grrr.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008M22FII?pf_rd_p=d1f45e03-8b73-4c9a-9beb-4819111bef9a&pf_rd_r=T3J6TNP3QYCJP69JJ1ZN

29840

https://czcustom.com/products/cz-gunsmith-tools/cz-firing-pin-retainer-pin-punch.html

29839

[Clusterfrack]

Yeah, that's a 'feature' of the P-07 I don't like. But, evidently if you use the solid pin from CZC, you can have problems. The CGW roll pin absorbs repeated impact better.


Why do they use a roll pin for this at all - most irritating.

On a P-07/P-09 you apparently need to use a metric 3mm pilot punch - the too-small SAE punch will damage even the CGW pin and the next size up doesn't fit.

Ask me how I know.

Ordering a 3mm punch now. Grrr.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008M22FII?pf_rd_p=d1f45e03-8b73-4c9a-9beb-4819111bef9a&pf_rd_r=T3J6TNP3QYCJP69JJ1ZN

29840

https://czcustom.com/products/cz-gunsmith-tools/cz-firing-pin-retainer-pin-punch.html

29839

[GuanoLoco]

Yeah, that's a 'feature' of the P-07 I don't like. But, evidently if you use the solid pin from CZC, you can have problems. The CGW roll pin absorbs repeated impact better.

https://czcustom.com/cz75b-solid-firing-pin-retaining-pin.html


Z75B SOLID Firing Pin Retaining Pin
3 Review(s)
Replacement SOLID Steel Firing Pin Retaining pin.
Rounded on one end for easier insertion.
Dimpled on the other so the roll pin punch doe not slip.
Precision machined.
The Dimpled side of this pin is a LARGER DIMENSION, so the pin need to be installed round end first.
To remove, it need to drifted out the reverse of the way it went in.
The Pin may be tight in the hole and a punch will be needed to install the pin.
This tight fit is what keeps the pin in place!.

Due to slide tolerances, the hole may need to be reamed with a .1260 reamer. SKU 30311 (https://czcustom.com/cz-75-retaining-pin-reamer.html)

Will fit all CZ 75,85B, SP01,P07,P09,97B, and 2075 RAMI Models

Interesting - I hadn't seen this. What problems - tapered pin walking out? I see the reamer is out of stock.

[Clusterfrack]

https://czcustom.com/cz75b-solid-firing-pin-retaining-pin.html

Interesting - I hadn't seen this. What problems - tapered pin walking out? I see the reamer is out of stock.

From CGW (https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/):
"TECH TIP: Why not a solid firing pin retaining pin? We tried that and found that a solid pin will soon damage the firing pin, causing peening. This peening or mushrooming of the firing pin causes the pin to drag in the firing pin channel = light strikes. A solid firing pin retaining pin can also get stuck in the slide. We have machined several from customers slides that would not drive out.

Install the 61100 spring steel retaining pin with the open end at the 12 0’clock position."

I have had good results with the CGW tempered pin

[ralph]

From CGW (https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/):
"TECH TIP: Why not a solid firing pin retaining pin? We tried that and found that a solid pin will soon damage the firing pin, causing peening. This peening or mushrooming of the firing pin causes the pin to drag in the firing pin channel = light strikes. A solid firing pin retaining pin can also get stuck in the slide. We have machined several from customers slides that would not drive out.

Install the 61100 spring steel retaining pin with the open end at the 12 0’clock position."

I have had good results with the CGW tempered pin

So have I, much better than a stock pin, it's pretty much problem free. Reading CGW's tech tip, shied me away from the solid pins, mainly because they have been known to get stuck in the slide..

[GuanoLoco]

I’ve completed 2 range days with the P-07 (CGW Pro-Grade + Polish). Each day I used my reloads with relatively hard CCI primers. I also exclusively used JMCK 2.5 AIB holsters. Tony Mayer

Day 1

The first day was all about comparing the P-07 from an JMCK 2.5 P-09 AIWB rig with a G-19 from an JMCK 2.5 G17 AIWB rig. In the P-07 I was running the 15 lb Gold “Defense” hammer spring and it was 100% with CCI primers. DA was about 8lbs- and SA about 3lbs. The Glock has a ~3.5-4.5 lb press, +/- depending on how I run the trigger gauge.

I ran the Gabe White Standards, Plate Racks, etc. Both guns ran flawlessly, maybe 200 rounds each.

I think I shoot the P-07 a little better, maybe 5+% BETTER, but not a LOT better. I think this would improve with familiarity as I would have less ‘loss’ going back and forth between (mostly) the Tanfo Stock 2 and the G19.

I think the P-07 in a G19 holster rides a little more comfortably than A G17 in a G17 holster. Not sure why.

Subjectively, I prefer the handling of the P-07 to the G19.

Day 2

Today, in the second test session I decided to try out the 13 lb Blue “Competition” hammer spring. Before anyone gets excited I literally could care less what the manufacturer labels a spring weight - I’m much more interested in the results of my testing with MY ammo. For practice I like to test with relatively hard CCI Small Pistol Primers. I also have a good collection of much more forgiving Win and Win Magnum SPP’s, as well as damn-near foolproof Federals that I use for matches. For carry I prefer Federal HST 147gr, which presumably use Federal primers.

If I can run many hundreds of rounds of CCI primers across many sessions totallying many thousands of rounds without a lite strike, I’m pretty sure I will be able to light off Federals when I need to. There is a benefit to having a lighter and more controllable trigger, DA in particular.

With the Blue 13 lb spring I have a DA of 7.5-8lbs (still varies more than I like) and an SA of 2.75 lbs (more consistent) which is pretty close to my heavily sprung Tanfoglio Stock 2 competition guns. One of my goals is to have a carry gun whose trigger more closely matches the gun that I get 10’s of thousands of rounds on practice in with during the year. Yes, with all that practice, you’d think I would be better.

Anyhow, I ran the tar out of the P-07 today, shooting probably 500 rounds in about 2+ hours. I ran everything from AIWB concealment (more on that later). What did I do?

Draw drills from concealment to warm up - 8” plates.

More Gabe Wite Standards - I’m running “Light Pin” level of performance pretty consistently but will not be a threat to earn a Turbo Pin unless I make a significant improvement to my draw.

Plate racks from 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30 yards.

Ben Stoeger Dot Drill. I wasn’t that far off when I can do with Stock 2, adding about 0.5 - 0.75s for my slow-ass AIWB concealed draw

Transition drills across 6 x 8” plates, plus separate 8”, 10” and 12” plates, widely dispersed.

Individual Plate drills, using a double stack of barrels as hard cover, at 15 and 25 yards.

Initial Thoughts:

- The speed of my concealed AIWB draw needs work. Part of my challenge is getting a good grip and I think the butt of the pistol is simply too close to my belt line. I have anothe set of holes in my JMCK 2.5 P-09 holster that I can adjust to to add some breathing room to, and I’m in the process of drilling 2 more holes to test even more room. I think I can conceal with a higher ride just fine, but testing is required.

- Overall my performance was good. Speed was high and I had a gread deal of confidence in quickly hitting 8” steel at any range I was shooting.

- The P-07 ran flawlessly, including no light strikes using the Blue 13 lb Competition Hammer spring. This is extremely promising, but I’d like to see this at a higher round count. I got the gun hot and kept it hot. No issues.

- I did surprisingly well on my first pass of dot drill with the P-07 - I even caught myself using target focus on 2” circles at 7 yards and holding it together on occasional, brief strings of one-hole groups.

- I haven’t seen any issues with the gun falling to half-cock on a DA pull.

Overall - I LIKE. I could see taking a calculated risk by promoting this gun to carry duty immediately, and with a lot of confidence if it continutes to perform like it did today.

[GuanoLoco]

I’ve been experimenting with the higher-ride holes on my JMCK 2.5’s and have drilled a set of even higher-riding holes that I’m experimenting with - using either (adds cant) or both.

I’m not sure whre I will end up, but I am positive that I prefer the original higher-riding holes with about 2 finger widths of clearance quite a bit more than the lower-riding holes.

I also think the longer P-09 holster (theoretically reduces roll-out, and provides more room for my longer, suppressor-ready barrel config) is a little more comfortable higher, at least for my build, when I sit or bend over to pick something up.

If all thise seems incredibly picky - I enourage you to take a swing at the Turbo Pin level of the Gabe White Standards. It matters!

3041130412

[GuanoLoco]

The P-07 came with a single stupid 10 round dimpled magazine. I bought a few more - a 15, a 15 with a +2 extended basepad (really like this in the P-07) and a 19 from a P-09.

At $45 a pop they are stupidly expensive. Anyone got a bead on a cheaper source?

I decided to pray to the FSM, and with a little help from a drill, a carbide burr, some elbow grease and a dremel with a silicone carbide stone, my magazine was HEALED!

Behold, the 15 round practice mag formerly known as the OEM 10 round mag!

[Clusterfrack]

You could go to jail in Cal for doing that.

P-10c mags for $33.
http://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/

[Trukinjp13]

I finally broke down and ordered a 15 rounder for mine. I love the 17rnd setup but sucks for concealment.

[GuanoLoco]

You could go to jail in Cal for doing that.

P-10c mags for $33.
http://gregcotellc.com/cart/cz-factory-mecgar-actmag-c-173/

I live in free ‘Murica. Cali can go ... oh wait, this isn’t the Pfestivus thread.

I heard a rumor they were the same, haven’t looked it up.

I like the 15 +2 - conceals fine for me AIWB and I get a better grip on the draw.

Pic: 10 converted to 15, 15, 15+2 basepad, 19. And yes, the basepad on the converted 10 is definitely different.

[Trukinjp13]

I live in free ‘Murica. Cali can go ... oh wait, this isn’t the Pfestivus thread.

I heard a rumor they were the same, haven’t looked it up.

I like the 15 +2 - conceals fine for me AIWB and I get a better grip on the draw.

Pic: 10 converted to 15, 15, 15+2 basepad, 19. And yes, the basepad on the converted 10 is definitely different.

Luxury of aiwb.

[GuanoLoco]

Dry fire work with the adjusted JMCK AIWB holster ride is showing great promise in helping me hit the 1.0s draw times required for Turbo Pin status on the Foot Court Standards, oops, I mean Gabe White Standards (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22600-Gabe-White-Standards&p=511721&viewfull=1#post511721).

It doesn’t help that my finger is on the slow side. To pick up any speed (0.20 average is GOOD for me) I really need to get the grip just right to be able to control recoil with my weak hand while leaving my strong hand relaxed, preferably with just the fingertip on the trigger. Otherwise my finger runs slooooow and I get trigger freeze.

I NEED a rash guard - all mine are at the lake house. My belly is bruised and tender from draws, and a double cotton T-shirt is protective but warm and tends to get in the way over time.

I shot some draw video and might even be willing to share it with you ghouls. Working on an upload.

[GuanoLoco]

Draw video - as threatened.

I modified my holster set up and draw technique a bit to try to hit a 1.0s par time. Holster is riding higher. Weak hand is moving shirt away in a slight circular motion from strong to weak side. Strong hand is coming in straight strong side to weak side, letting my pointer finger impact the underside of the frame as opposed to coming down on the grip.

This is MUCH better than. I was able to do at the range Sunday but I need more practice and live fire testing..


https://youtu.be/nQ5BT9V4nfE

[cheby]

- I haven’t seen any issues with the gun falling to half-cock on a DA pull.


Besides GJM, has anybody else had this issue with the gun falling to half-cock on a DA pull in actual live fire? I understand, many people were able to replicate this in dry fire.

[Mirolynmonbro]

Not me, and I didn't see anyone on the CZ forum

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[GuanoLoco]

My DSG Koala mag pouch for metal mags finally came in. I liked the design because of its length and adjustabiliy (depth, tension & cant). I prefer longer mags for my spares and rollout can definitely be an issue. I strapped it on, put in a 19 round P-19 magazine and was immediately pleased.

I needed an appropriate pouch as I’ve been dry firiing the Food Court Standards striving for consistent Turbo Pin level performance (it’s tough!) and have been wanting to add the sub 5.0s FAST drill to the mix. The test was a round of dry fire from concealment.

So far so good - on the FAST drill I can hit and exceed the 5.0s par time, of course without recoil, with a few 10ths to spare. Any hitches and I am over or right on the par time. I need to get faster and have better consistency to be able to pull it off 2X in a row cold in live fire.


https://youtu.be/iJNChnyGdJI

[Clusterfrack]

Night Fision sights installed. They are similar to my favorite Ameriglo Operators but with a slightly thicker blade. The sight picture is very tight, not much light. I like it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/5ee4b5dfec1919d528a390d16a5731c7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/1a29d077af9f2df9a13b3b45848639ce.jpg

The front needed a bit of stoning to fit. My technique is to smash the front of the slide onto a pine board to seat the sight.

The rear went in easily using a MGW Sight Pro.

[Lon]

Mine get here Tuesday. I got the same front but with the U notch rear.

[GuanoLoco]

Conclusion: I ran about 300 rounds of my CCI primer reloads today in the P-07 with zero malfunctions, using the 13 lb hammer spring still. I’d consider this gun carry-level reliable at this point and I’m ordering more magazines. I’m actually considering picking up a P-09 given how easily I carry the P-07 Suppressor-Ready using an 17+2 extended base plate in a P-09 JMCK 2.5 AIWB holster. I could have 19+1 in the gun and 19 or 19+2 as a spare mag.

I’m shooting this gun as well or better than my G19 and I’d say that I honestly prefer it, without reservation, but that’s just personal preference. I really should do another round of side-by-side testing. There is a strong possibility that I am shooting better simnply due to practice and newfound enthusiasm.

—-

Well, no malfunctions except for the “administrative reload’ while my gun was holstered AIWB, and I caught a vertical slice of belly flesh between the magwall and the extended base pad. Ouch. That definitely left a mark and a wince. I’d love to blame the P-07 but this is pretty clearly operator error.

Draws from concealment

Best draws with A-zone hits were 1.03, 1.04 and 1.07s. Fastest draw was 0.97 and I kept it on paper. Draws where I need a grip adequate for multiple shots (like the Bill Drill) or a 3x5 card head shot were longer. ‘Good’ ones were in the low 1.2X range - and this isn’t good enough for Turbo pin work.

I started getting unhappy with my accuracy whiel pursuing speed so I put up a brightly colored 3x5 card orienter vertically in the center of the USPSA A-Zone and worked on that instead. I found this very helpful in focusing on the center of the A-zone, with misses still in the A-zone, vs. focusing on the A-zone with looser hits sliding into the C-zone.

Gabe White / Food Court Standards from AIWB Concealment

Bill Drill - Goal 2.25s. Only 1 run made Turbo speed at 2.24s, usually I am 2.3x-2.4x seconds, an not 100% clean. Needs work, Primarily on the draw. I lose time trying to get a better grip and sight picture for a 6 round string. Improvement here will be difficult as my splits are 0.19-0.22 on average.

Failure to Stop - Goal 2.05s - Best run 1.68s clean. More typically clean runs avaraging just under 2.05s. I think I can make good improvement here.

2 Heads - Goal 2.25s - Best was 1.79s clean, others at 1.79 1B, 2.0 1B. This one seems relatively easy (for me).

4 Body/2 Heads - Goal 2.85s - Clean runs at 3.08s, 3.11s. One run at 2.75s but took -0.25x2 penalties for inaccuracy

This is closer than I’ve ever been to Turbo pin skill level - more work to do.

FAST Drill - Best at 4.80s clean, First run backwards 4 body/2 head at 4.76s clear, multiple runs < 5.0s not clean. Needs work.

Plate Rack (6 x 8”) @ 10 yards - Best clean runs just over 3.0s. I really need to focus on getting the dot centered on the plate. Definitely room for improvement here. That’s about a 1.5s draw + 5 x 0.30s transitions.

Plate Rack at 25+ yards - I’m doing pretty well with these as long as I see a hard front sight focus and keep the top of the front sight on the upper half of the plate. Lots of hits and I’m not working at it super hard, and I’m pushing speed. I’m noticing a lot more hits than before, I can apparently ‘snatch’ a hit on a less than perfect sight pictures. BUT, if I get out of the goove it goes south fast.

Conclusion so far: Not sure Mind Blown just yet (I have a high bar), but seriously LIKE and trending to the positive.

[Clusterfrack]

GuanoLoco, you mean the 15# gold CGW hammer spring, right?

[GuanoLoco]

GuanoLoco, you mean the 15# gold CGW hammer spring, right?

Nope, on Day 2 from post #412 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12944-New-CZ-P-07-Mind-Blown&p=788569&viewfull=1#post788569) I had decided that the 15ln gold hammer spring was working well after 200 rounds Day 1, so I wanted to test the reliability of the 13lb blue hammer spring.

I’m about 800 rounds in on testing with CCI primers with zero light strikes. I’m not 100% sure my heavily sprung Tanfo Stock 2’s are that reliable with CCI’s. Yes, I know CGW labels the gold 15 lb hammer spring as defense and the 13 lb blue spring as competition.

Frankly I care more about my test results with ammo and primers than I have 10s of thousands of rounds of experience with. And in my experience, CCI Small Pistol Primers are much harder than Win SPP’s which are harder than Federal SPP’s, and I have a stockpile of each. I carry Federal HST. So if a gun is 100% on CCI’s, I’m not sweating it.

Also, the current 7.5 lb +/- DA (the trigger seems to be smoothing out and stabilizing finally) with just a hair under 3.0 lb SA, this is pretty close to my Tanfo so my DA/SA trigger experience is translating very well.

[miller_man]

Have carried the P-09 a time or 2 around the house - it is a LOT, LOT bigger in the grip. I could kinda,, almost conceal it but it was not really doable IMO. But I’m a small frame guy.

[Clusterfrack]

Nope, on Day 2 from post #412 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12944-New-CZ-P-07-Mind-Blown&p=788569&viewfull=1#post788569) I had decided that the 15ln gold hammer spring was working well after 200 rounds Day 1, so I wanted to test the reliability of the 13lb blue hammer spring.

I’m about 800 rounds in on testing with CCI primers with zero light strikes. I’m not 100% sure my heavily sprung Tanfo Stock 2’s are that reliable with CCI’s. Yes, I know CGW labels the gold 15 lb hammer spring as defense and the 13 lb blue spring as competition.

Frankly I care more about my test results with ammo and primers than I have 10s of thousands of rounds of experience with. And in my experience, CCI Small Pistol Primers are much harder than Win SPP’s which are harder than Federal SPP’s, and I have a stockpile of each. I carry Federal HST. So if a gun is 100% on CCI’s, I’m not sweating it.

Also, the current 7.5 lb +/- DA (the trigger seems to be smoothing out and stabilizing finally) with just a hair under 3.0 lb SA, this is pretty close to my Tanfo so my DA/SA trigger experience is translating very well.

I agree that how CGW classifies their springs isn't important. The important things are reliability and how we want the gun to perform. That's a really good sign that you're having solid function with CCI primers and the 13# mainspring. The extended FP and CGW FP spring are a big part of that, I think.

Stock is 20#, and CGW specifies that we cannot use it with their FP and spring kit. Personally, I would not use anything lighter without the extended FP, but I like to err on the side of reliability.

I've used the 18# spring in my Prograde P-07 and it will pop CCI #41 military 5.56 primers (the hardest I am aware of). The 15# spring is currently what I am using in that gun, and have had 100% function with a wide range of ammo. It took 2 strikes to pop CCI#41 primers. I carry my guns in dusty, muddy, and wet conditions, and don't want to worry about reliability for a modest gain in DA trigger pull.

... but I'll have to try that 13# sometime. I bet it's really nice.

[GuanoLoco]

I agree that how CGW classifies their springs isn't important. The important things are reliability and how we want the gun to perform. That's a really good sign that you're having solid function with CCI primers and the 13# mainspring. The extended FP and CGW FP spring are a big part of that, I think.

Stock is 20#, and CGW specifies that we cannot use it with their FP and spring kit. Personally, I would not use anything lighter without the extended FP, but I like to err on the side of reliability.

I've used the 18# spring in my Prograde P-07 and it will pop CCI #41 military 5.56 primers (the hardest I am aware of). The 15# spring is currently what I am using in that gun, and have had 100% function with a wide range of ammo. It took 2 strikes to pop CCI#41 primers. I carry my guns in dusty, muddy, and wet conditions, and don't want to worry about reliability for a modest gain in DA trigger pull.

... but I'll have to try that 13# sometime. I bet it's really nice.

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

[ralph]

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

You know another possibilty, assuming ypu were using your reloads when this happened is, a high primer, those will also leave a small dimple on the primer, but no bang, and usually, they go off when ran through the second time...Just a thought, as I get high primers on my 650 from time to time, if I'm not careful..

[GJM]

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

I am convinced I was slow to realize the DA ignition problem because it was so infrequent and I assumed it was an ammo issue. Really took pounding on the P09 pistols every day with USPSA practice to notice it. I also think the problems got worse with round count, which suggests wear was involved.

[cheby]

You bring up a good point - I’m not usually in poor conditions, and perhaps more importantly, IIRC, the 15# hammer spring only added about 1/2 lb to the DA. I’ll have to swap and re-measure both. For that little of a benefit and ou situation (and perhaps mine), the 15# is probably a no-brainer.

I shot about another 150-ish rounds on the CZ today with Feudist. On an El Prez drill I had a malf of some sort but I was in speed/practice mode and automatically cleared it before my brain had a chance to properly diagnose it. IIRC I did a DA trigger pull, hammer fell, no bang and the hammer sound seemed odd (I was wearing plugs though and I don’t dry fire with plugs). Picking up the round later there was a tiny prick mark on the primer, like a free-floating firing pin mark but not a real FP strike that could have popped a primer.

Thinking through this later, in the context of GJM’s reports, I might well have gripped the gun funny on the concealed turn-and-draw. Also, the hammer might have fallen to half-cock, but sadly I didn’t stop to properly diagnose. I reloaded the round in a mag and it shot fine. I will definitely watch carefully for this type of thing in the future.

This suspiciously looks like one of those malfunctions that GJM reported.

[GuanoLoco]

You know another possibilty, assuming ypu were using your reloads when this happened is, a high primer, those will also leave a small dimple on the primer, but no bang, and usually, they go off when ran through the second time...Just a thought, as I get high primers on my 650 from time to time, if I'm not careful..

Possible but less likely - I run a Mark 7/1050 and primer seating depth is QC checked regularly, plus I Hundo cause gauge ALL ammo, practice and match. I also didn't notice a high primer when I examined the round - that generally stands out to my eye.

No way was that pin prick a real primer strike.

I was messing with the dirty P-07 with a bud later. He was checking out the DA/SA pull and reset and observed that there was almost no overtravel present - generally a clue that you are on the edge of bad things happening. A quick peek on the CZ forums makes me think that this is not unusual but i only have the one unit. I need to check the P-01 Omega I have that is still in OEM configuration.

So, we are messing with it and all of a sudden the trigger starts occasionally failing to reset properly after a DA pull. The trigger is moving back and forth under light spring tension, but not engaged. After fully letting it back out it would 'catch' again, and act normally for a bit, then do it again. We did this 5-6 times. I opened it up, looked for issues (nothing obvious), used a paper towel to quickly wipe out the worst of the carbon gunk, and re-assembled. Yes, it had been a while since I cleaned or lubed i

Now the gun is working perfectly and I can't get the problem to replicate. I field stripped it cleaned it some more last night (not a deep clean, no ultrasonic or spraying out the trigger assy), and re-lubed (SLIP2000). Still working perfectly.

I WAS close to declaring this gun worthy of carry based on 1000+ flawless rounds - but now I am concerned that I am somehow 'on the edge' and am maybe just some gunk away from malfunctions.

I need to call CGW and get their opinion on this. I need more testing. Maybe I need a slightly different roller size. Maybe I need an un-modified trigger bar spring. I don't know ... but I do know that I now need more confidence.

[GuanoLoco]

This suspiciously looks like one of those malfunctions that GJM reported.

Maybe. I am kicking myself for being more interested in completing the drill than completing the diagnostic process.

[GJM]

I need to call CGW and get their opinion on this. I need more testing. Maybe I need a slightly different roller size. Maybe I need an un-modified trigger bar spring. I don't know ... but I do know that I now need more confidence.

Maybe you need a different type pistol.

[GuanoLoco]

Maybe you need a different type pistol.

It's too soon, I'm still in denial.

Maybe I'll just stick with my boring ass Glocks.

[ralph]

Possible but less likely - I run a Mark 7/1050 and primer seating depth is QC checked regularly, plus I Hundo cause gauge ALL ammo, practice and match. I also didn't notice a high primer when I examined the round - that generally stands out to my eye.

No way was that pin prick a real primer strike.

I was messing with the dirty P-07 with a bud later. He was checking out the DA/SA pull and reset and observed that there was almost no overtravel present - generally a clue that you are on the edge of bad things happening. A quick peek on the CZ forums makes me think that this is not unusual but i only have the one unit. I need to check the P-01 Omega I have that is still in OEM configuration.

So, we are messing with it and all of a sudden the trigger starts occasionally failing to reset properly after a DA pull. The trigger is moving back and forth under light spring tension, but not engaged. After fully letting it back out it would 'catch' again, and act normally for a bit, then do it again. We did this 5-6 times. I opened it up, looked for issues (nothing obvious), used a paper towel to quickly wipe out the worst of the carbon gunk, and re-assembled. Yes, it had been a while since I cleaned or lubed i

Now the gun is working perfectly and I can't get the problem to replicate. I field stripped it cleaned it some more last night (not a deep clean, no ultrasonic or spraying out the trigger assy), and re-lubed (SLIP2000). Still working perfectly.

I WAS close to declaring this gun worthy of carry based on 1000+ flawless rounds - but now I am concerned that I am somehow 'on the edge' and am maybe just some gunk away from malfunctions.

I need to call CGW and get their opinion on this. I need more testing. Maybe I need a slightly different roller size. Maybe I need an un-modified trigger bar spring. I don't know ... but I do know that I now need more confidence.


I'm interested in hearing what CGW has to say.... Although I may have missed it what mods have you done to your P-07? All I did with mine is change some springs, install an extended firing pin, I'm running an 18 lb hammer spring. Everything else is stock.. So far, no problems..Daily dry fire practice..

[GuanoLoco]

I'm interested in hearing what CGW has to say.... Although I may have missed it what mods have you done to your P-07? All I did with mine is change some springs, install an extended firing pin, I'm running an 18 lb hammer spring. Everything else is stock.. So far, no problems..Daily dry fire practice..

CGW Pro-Upgrade Kit, lighter pull sear spring (they provide 2 springs, one for increased SA pull weight).

Polish job per CZ web site - and yes I know how to do a proper polish job without removing excess metal. 3000 grit sandpaper finish/Simichrome buffing. All flat work done on a sheet of glass. The only place I went heavy was the very rough tool marks on the end of the trigger bar. Slightly relieved trigger bar spring to ‘reduce stacking’ per web site recommendation. Yes I plan to replace with a fresh one - I bough a few extras.

Blue 13” competition hammer spring

Unrelated: Dawson Sights, TractionGrips

[Clusterfrack]

I’d put the 18# spring in, replace the trigger bar and spring, and see what happens.

I really don’t like the bending of the trigger bar spring. I think this is a bad idea, and has little benefit.

[GuanoLoco]

I’d put the 18# spring in, replace the trigger bar and spring, and see what happens.

I really don’t like the bending of the trigger bar spring. I think this is a bad idea, and has little benefit.

I plan to replace it and measure before/after to quantify pull weight and claim that it reduces stacking. What I don’t have an easy way to do is gunk up the pistol with powder residue again. Maybe I should buy a pound of TiteGroup from one of my buddies. Who’da thunk I had a use for a dirty burning powder.

Maybe I need to OVER-bend a trigger bar spring to see if the failure mode matches. That would be interesting.

Or, maybe I manually gunk up the area between / around the trigger bad and frame to see if increased friction replicates the issue.

Promising ideas, I don’t have unlimited time though.

18# spring - eeeuuuuww! LOL. How about the 15#.

[GuanoLoco]

OK, some learning has occurred playing with the Trigger Bar Spring (TBS). I was using the 13# Hammer Spring.

Observations:

1) Without a TBS the trigger will not always catch and drive the DA - exactly what I saw earlier. Hold the gun upside down (simulating upside down minimal spring pressure) and the gun catches each time.

2) With the TBS relieved about as much as I could get it and still have it stay in place in the groove in the underside of the trigger bar, the gun still would catch each time. DA was 7 lbs 1 oz, SA 2 lbs 11 oz. Definitely lighter - but not a place that seems a good choice for reliability. More on this later.

3) With the TBS moderately relieved as I had it earlier (my first test), DA was 7 lbs 7 oz, SA 2 lbs 14 oz. Readings are probably +/- 1 oz, some variability across 5 pulls.

4) With the OEM TBS, I had a whopping 7 lbs 8 oz DA, and 2 lbs 15 oz SA - with maybe a few tenths of an ounce of stacking. So, little upside, and potential downside, therefore it is provably not worth messing with, right Clusterfrack? Right? Hold on...

BUT (here’s the BUT) - With the OEM TBS I am not at or slightly past the point of not having enough overtravel for the gun to operate properly. Meaning the SA doesn’t reliably trip the sear now. SA is suddenly runnng maybe 3 lbs 2 oz or 6 lbs. With a weaker TBS I appear to have a touch more overtravel available and the sear trips properly.

I could see that a weaker trigger bar spring + some grit (built up carbon deposits between the frame and the trigger bar, for example) could prevent the Trigger Bar from engaging properly - and this is what I THINK I experienced, and it stopped after a quick and dirty cleaning.

Even with a full power TBS this isn’t exactly comforting, but knowledge is power.

I KNOW I polished the frame side of the trigger bar flat and well - 3000 grit against a piece of glass. I somewhat deliberately did not try to work on the plastic frame.

What I suspect it is that I will need a slightly different, perhaps 0.005” diameter (0.0025” radius) roller. Going back to my post (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12944-New-CZ-P-07-Mind-Blown&p=765372&viewfull=1#post765372) where I installed the CGW Pro-Upgrade Kit:


I did measure the rouble action roller bearing when I pulled it, outer diameter was 0.223”. The supplied bearing was 0.225”. I am pleased as the web site states, on the page for the 97058-225 Roller Bearing P-07 P-09 (https://cajungunworks.com/product/97058-225-roller-bearing-p-07-p-09/)


TECH TIP: The OEM roller OD can vary quite a bit, ranging from .212″ – .225″. If possible, measure your OEM roller, ideally the CGW roller should have a slightly larger OD compared to the OEM roller. Call for tech support if needed.

I plan to call CGW tech support, but I’d like to try a 0.220” roller and a 0.230” roller. ... But hold that thought...

[GJM]

OK, some learning has occurred playing with the Trigger Bar Spring (TBS). I was using the 13# Hammer Spring.

Observations:

1) Without a TBS the trigger will not always catch and drive the DA - exactly what I saw earlier. Hold the gun upside down (simulating upside down minimal spring pressure) and the gun catches each time.

2) With the TBS relieved about as much as I could get it and still have it stay in place in the groove in the underside of the trigger bar, the gun still would catch each time. DA was 7 lbs 1 oz, SA 2 lbs 11 oz. Definitely lighter - but not a place that seems a good choice for reliability. More on this later.

3) With the TBS moderately relieved as I had it earlier (my first test), DA was 7 lbs 7 oz, SA 2 lbs 14 oz. Readings are probably +/- 1 oz, some variability across 5 pulls.

4) With the OEM TBS, I had a whopping 7 lbs 8 oz DA, and 2 lbs 15 oz SA - with maybe a few tenths of an ounce of stacking. So, little upside, and potential downside, therefore it is provably not worth messing with, right Clusterfrack? Right? Hold on...

BUT (here’s the BUT) - With the OEM TBS I am not at or slightly past the point of not having enough overtravel for the gun to operate properly. Meaning the SA doesn’t reliably trip the sear now. SA is suddenly runnng maybe 3 lbs 2 oz or 6 lbs. With a weaker TBS I appear to have a touch more overtravel available and the sear trips properly.

I could see that a weaker trigger bar spring + some grit (built up carbon deposits between the frame and the trigger bar, for example) could prevent the Trigger Bar from engaging properly - and this is what I THINK I experienced, and it stopped after a quick and dirty cleaning.

Even with a full power TBS this isn’t exactly comforting, but knowledge is power.

I KNOW I polished the frame side of the trigger bar flat and well - 3000 grit against a piece of glass. I somewhat deliberately did not try to work on the plastic frame.

What I suspect it is that I will need a slightly different, perhaps 0.005” diameter (0.0025” radius) roller. Going back to my post (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12944-New-CZ-P-07-Mind-Blown&p=765372&viewfull=1#post765372) where I installed the CGW Pro-Upgrade Kit:





I plan to call CGW tech support, but I’d like to try a 0.220” roller and a 0.230” roller. ... But hold that thought...

I might or might not accept this level of tinkering on a competition pistol, depending on how well I shot it, but on a carry gun?

[GuanoLoco]

Studying the overtravel situation, it looks like I have about 0.065” of room between the back of thr trigger and the frame. The thing that is actually stopping the trigger from travelling further is the back of the slot in the polymer frame where the trigger travels. And it looks like removing 0.001 or so at a time from the back of the trigger slot would increase the possible trigger travel even more.

GL looks left, looks right, and convinced that no one is looking, enters [Third Person Mode]

He whips out a small flat diamond file and removes just a hair of polymer from the back of the trigger slot to mechanically increas overtravel. Hey, it’s for science, right? Grabbing a set of calipers, it appears that there is maybe 0.005” more overtravel room available. Hmmm, good. Let the evil flow.

A quick function test: SA now seems reliable. Like magic.

GL grins slyly to himself and thinks: I don’t call myself GuanoLoco for nothing. Then remembers he is writing this all down for your education and entertainment and exits [/Third Person Mode]

Retesting a well-lubed trigger is now showing a DA as expected at about 7 lbs 8 oz. There is now a reliable SA with 3 lbs 4 oz# range. WAIT, what happened to that beautiful 2 lb 15 oz SA test earlier? I dunno - trigger gauging this thing make me crazy sometimes.

I think it’s time to play with hammer springs. I still intend to call CGW and talk roller bearings though.

[GuanoLoco]

I might or might not accept this level of tinkering on a competition pistol, depending on how well I shot it, but on a carry gun?

Hell I’m all kinds of brave on competition guns. I’ve worked on about 1/2 dozen Stock 2’s that take a pretty fair bit of parts and love to get into competition shape and they all run good. If get too agressive on something and I screw up I just start backing out / replacing parts until I get to a known good state, test the hell out of it and have at it. Truth be told though I run my competition guns in a pretty conservative config so I can run hard primers. I KNOW I could remove about 2 Lbs DA and 1 lb SA if I was willing to commit to Federal primers.

I don’t have your ammo budget but I do pretty good and have the ability too run many thousands of rounds learning just exactly how things work.

This CZ P-07 though, I’m still in my learning process. Even CGW has to disassemble, put in their parts and re-assemble. And that’s pretty much exaclty where I am at now, CGW Pro-Upgrade kit plus polishing some parts plus the 13# hammer spring (and I’m about to test 13# vs. 15# again).

If a gun is so sensitive that a simple polish job makes it a no-go, it’s not a gun I want to own, much less carry. If it has failure modes like grit on a Trigger bar, potentially impeding trigger reset, then I want to know what is going on, why, and how to mitigate it if possible.

Like I said, I’m in my learning process and I like to document my processes - this is how I roll. ;)

[GuanoLoco]

13# Blue Hammer Spring: 7 lb 8 oz DA, 3 lbs 4 oz SA.

15# Gold Hammer Spring: 8 lbs 14 oz DA, 3 lb 10 oz SA

OEM (20#?) Stock Hammer Spring: 9 lb 8 oz DA, SA. On the 18# SA I am getting odd results - somewhat erratic SA about the same or LIGHTER than the 15# I jsut tested plus I am feeling that I am out of overtravel again and this is screwing with my results.

So, given my success with the 13” and CCI’s SPP’s to date, hammer springs to me seem more of a matter of personal preference of pull weight vs the premise that there is more room for slop in ‘combat’ conditions.

I haven’t gotten as far as ClusterFrack with testing using Small Rifle Primers, CCI#41 Military SRP’s in particular. Then again I don’t plan on shooting pistol rounds for practive or carry that are loaded with SRP’s either. I’m USUALLY not in extreme adverse conditions, unless you consider deliberately running pistols for a couple or few thousand rounds without little/no cleaning and maybe with some lube here and there to be adverse.

Can I run heavier DA/SA? Sure, but even though I fear not the DA pull there is a bit of a price in training effort, speed, accuracy and consistency, all otehr things being equal. Are you more likely to benefit from a better (somewhat lighter) DA/SA trigger or a hammer falling like Mjolnir? Hard to say.

FYI I am periodically getting some annoying variability in my trigegr weight testing. In general I am trying to err on the side of the ‘best’ pull weights that I can consistently get, using 5-10 pulls per test.

As a test I put the 13# hammer spring back, gave it about 20 “priming” cycles to get set and remeasured 10 pulls:

13# Hammer Spring: 7 lbs 3 oz DA, SA 3 lbs 3 oz and I am definitely back on the edge of running out of overtravel again. Maddening.

Enough for one evening... Next session I think I need to play with roller bearings - after consulting with CGW.

[Clusterfrack]

I looked at the overtravel on my two guns, and there is plenty of room between the trigger and frame after the SA sear breaks. I wonder if it has to do with how much material you removed from your trigger bar?

Mine are unpolished other than from use.

I’m running the 15# spring in my ProGrade gun, and OEM 20# in my mostly stock gun.

[GuanoLoco]

I looked at the overtravel on my two guns, and there is plenty of room between the trigger and frame after the SA sear breaks. I wonder if it has to do with how much material you removed from your trigger bar?

Mine are unpolished other than from use.

I’m running the 15# spring in my ProGrade gun, and OEM 20# in my mostly stock gun.

The thought occurred to me and I will buy another trigger bar to be sure.

I don’t think I did but it’s one more thing worth testing.

One more thought - I don’t recall having that LITTLE overtravel after I installed the pro-upgrade kit 1000+ rounds ago, and this seems like something I would have noticed when I was playing with the Short Reset changes ... But maybe not, hard to say.

Is the OEM 20#? I thought it was 18#. I have a pair of OEM’s, one from the P-07 and the other from a P-01 Omega. My 18# test was probably a 20# then and I know where the 18 from CGW is. Sigh, more testing.

I’m a little surprised by the pull weight difference between the 13# and 15# - seems a rather big increment.

[Clusterfrack]

The thought occurred to me and I will buy another trigger bar to be sure.

I don’t think I did but it’s one more thing worth testing.

One more thought - I don’t recall having that LITTLE overtravel after I installed the pro-upgrade kit 1000+ rounds ago, and this seems like something I would have noticed when I was playing with the Short Reset changes ... But maybe not, hard to say.

Is the OEM 20#? I thought it was 18#. I have a pair of OEM’s, one from the P-07 and the other from a P-01 Omega. My 18# test was probably a 20# then and I know where the 18 from CGW is. Sigh, more testing.

I’m a little surprised by the pull weight difference between the 13# and 15# - seems a rather big increment.

The OEM hammer spring is 20#.

I have a few more thoughts, mostly philosophical. This isn't really aimed at you GuanoLoco, but I know you won't get butthurt anyway. Here are some of the things I don't find very important:

1. The exact weight of the DA trigger pull on my gun.
2. How the DA pull feels when I pull it REALLY S L O W.
3. Smoothness of the parts in my gun, and whether there are visible machining marks on them.
4. Tinkering to achieve a small improvement.

What I think are really important:

1. Reliability. I've tested 3 P-07s, and all pass my requirements of 1000+ rounds of trouble-free function. One of my guns is around 3k, and probably 10x that many dryfires. I have never had a failure during live or dryfire, unless I purposely caused it (see posts above).
2. Shoot-ability. Can I hit relatively small targets quickly, even in DA? Can I do the Ben Stoeger "Trigger Pull at Speed" drill in DA and not have the sights move? With the 15# spring, a Prograde Kit, and no polishing, that's a solid yes. With the 20# spring in a stock gun, and no polishing, I can do pretty darn well.

The functional difference in DA pulls with different trigger weights when you pull the trigger at a realistic speed isn't that great.

[GuanoLoco]

The OEM hammer spring is 20#.

I have a few more thoughts, mostly philosophical. This isn't really aimed at you GuanoLoco, but I know you won't get butthurt anyway. Here are some of the things I don't find very important:

1. The exact weight of the DA trigger pull on my gun.
2. How the DA pull feels when I pull it REALLY S L O W.
3. Smoothness of the parts in my gun, and whether there are visible machining marks on them.
4. Tinkering to achieve a small improvement.

What I think are really important:

1. Reliability. I've tested 3 P-07s, and all pass my requirements of 1000+ rounds of trouble-free function. One of my guns is around 3k, and probably 10x that many dryfires. I have never had a failure during live or dryfire, unless I purposely caused it (see posts above).
2. Shoot-ability. Can I hit relatively small targets quickly, even in DA? Can I do the Ben Stoeger "Trigger Pull at Speed" drill in DA and not have the sights move? With the 15# spring, a Prograde Kit, and no polishing, that's a solid yes. With the 20# spring in a stock gun, and no polishing, I can do pretty darn well.

The functional difference in DA pulls with different trigger weights when you pull the trigger at a realistic speed isn't that great.

Excellent points. I readily admit that I love the optimization process, but I also have a need for reliability in ANY of my guns.

I like trying to tune then test and measure things in a hardware + software type of assessment - e.g. Dot Drill or Gabe White Standards or El Prez for seeing how I handle various triggers. My ego tells me I can drive heavy/stock triggers OK. My measured results don't always agree, but the variance might be completely acceptable for the mission. I don't necessarily NEED to be able deliver a 10 Hit Factor El Prez from concealment with my carry gun - but I'd like to!

I was 100% on my "tuned" P-07 testing ... right until I wasn't.

I haven't given up by any means, but it has made me a little more skeptical and pragmatic in my approach.

[Clusterfrack]

Unfortunately, the new Night Fision sights make the gun hit 3" to 4" high at 15 to 25 yards. This was confirmed with reloads and 147 HST. (The OEM and Dawson sights are spot on for multiple guns.) Obviously this is not acceptable. I have an inquiry in with Night Fision, and will report back when I hear what they will do.

If they cannot provide a taller front sight, I will probably buy a custom Dawson front.

What a hassle.


Night Fision sights installed. They are similar to my favorite Ameriglo Operators but with a slightly thicker blade. The sight picture is very tight, not much light. I like it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/5ee4b5dfec1919d528a390d16a5731c7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/1a29d077af9f2df9a13b3b45848639ce.jpg

The front needed a bit of stoning to fit. My technique is to smash the front of the slide onto a pine board to seat the sight.

The rear went in easily using a MGW Sight Pro.

[Clusterfrack]

Deleted.

[GuanoLoco]

I had a really good chat with CGW today. It is an honest pleasure to talk shop with someone who knows their stuff and was willing to press me on what I’ve done and vice versa. I’m pleased to say that my actions and observations appear to pass muster.

First, some level of ‘uniqueness’ or tolerance stacking is a thing with these guns - not really a surprise. I’m used to this with Tanfoglio Stock 2’s - I swear every one is a snowflake - mostly the same but not quite. No worries, I’ll figure it out.

Their simple answer on the overtravel problem is exactly what I suspected - the polymer frame needs to be opened up a hair to allow a little more trigger travel. This doesnt sound like a common issue, but some guns can be like that. I don’t know why this was good for 1000+ rounds and now isn’t. Maybe things are just breaking in. There was no claim that the roller size was the cause or solution to an SA overtravel issue.

There was no belief that cleaning up the tool marks at the end of the trigger bar was a problem. Frankly it sounds like they do the same thing, and this matches the CZ Forum polishing instrictions.

There was no real concern about the trigger reset issue - use a stock Trigger Bar Spring. I didn’t get the impression that relieving the supposedly oversprung TBS was os significant concern, or that this (trigger reset failure) was a recurring issue. I did get some stories about P-07’s used for carry, and other specimens that that had run many 10’s of thousands of rounds in less than ideal environments, like classroom loaners.

After a fair amount of discussion, based on my persistent interest to learn how the variables work, I was encouraged to pick up a larger and a smaller size roller to learn how the action of the gun would change. I ordered a .220” and a .230” roller to complement my 0.225” roller. I was also encouraged to play with different sear spring weights, as well as the 18# hammer spring. In theory I should be able to get to a 8 lb 6 to 8 lb 12 oz DA and 3 lb 1 oz +/- SA pull with the 18# hammer spring.

They do have some updated parts coming out, and these may or may not help with my issues but it sounded like they were very willing to work with me to get my P-07 to a place where I could have confidence in it. I suspect GJM may have triggered investment here - there is a thread on the CZ forum that discusses it a bit.

Anyhow, I’m happy with the call, have more work to do, and am awaiting delivery of the new rollers - mostly just to satisfy my curiosity and to learn more about how the Omega system works. I have more work to do and am cautiously optimistic.

[GuanoLoco]

I almost forgot - one option was for CGW to remove a little material from the sear, but I’m going to try opening up the trigger hole first. Worst case I “go back” by adding a trigger with an overtravel screw but I don’t see that happening.

I opened up the back of the trigger slot maybe 0.005 - 0.010. It dawned on me to use a feeler gauge and I measure another 0.022” between the back of the trigger and the frame so I have plenty of room left to go.

I had left the 13# hammer spring in, and some quick testing showed the DA/SA both working well and light, 7.X LB DA and about 3 lb 1 oz SA. Heartened by the info from CGW, and realizing that I had last tested the (20#?) OEM springs last night I pulled the 18# CGW Hammer spring and retested.

WOW - DA is coming in at 7 lbs 15 oz and SA at 3 lbs even, both with a fair amount of consistency, and using the OEM, un-relieved Trigger Bar Spring.

So at this point I am at, configuration wise, the CGW Pro-grade Upgrade, 18# hammer spring, lighter of the 2 sear springs and I can’t feel any hint of overtravel issue - although I know I am close. The SA also feels a lot crisper than last night, another sign of interference from the lack of overtravel.

I am anxious to restart my live fire testing, but will have to live with dry fire cycles for now.

I’d be lying if I said that I wasn’t quite pleased with tonight’s results. I also captured some pictures:

I removed a small amount of polymer from the trigger bar slot in the frame where the tweezers are pointed:

[GuanoLoco]

Here’s a pic of my trigger bar.

I previously polished it to a 3000 grit finish using a piece of glass to back the sandpaper. Note the scratches in it from rubbing against the frame. I’ll assume that was from some combination of lube (SLIP2000 EWL is my fav), powder residue and maybe some range gravel dust from multiple practice sessions and 1000+ rounds.

Yes, I had a trigger reset failure, yes the gun was dirty, yes I was using a ‘relieved’ Trigger Bar Spring (now replaced) and yes I see physical evidence of grit that was presumably trapped between the trigger bar and the frame.

CGW did their best to convince me that, while these guns benefit from maintenance and cleaning like any gun, they aren’t prone to failure just because of a little gunk. We shall see - I like testing heavily with some accumulated gunk.

[GuanoLoco]

OK, one more trick.

If you have ever replaced a Trigger Return Spring on a CZ or a Tanfoglio, you have hopefully realized that the process is a lot easier if you use a slave pin. An expedient solution is a cut off piece of Q-tip shaft, of the ubiquitous red plastic nozzle from a bottle of OneShot or spray cleaner or lube.

A better solution is to cut off a piece of drill bit shaft about 0.090” diameter (sorry I forgot the Imperial size, but I’ll assue, 3/32”) that is ~0.32” long. Put the Trigger Return Spring in trigger, hold it down with your fnger, and insert the slave pin - being careful not to launch the spring into oblivion.

Put the trigger assembly back in the gun, carefully align it, then run a punch through where the Trigger Pin would go, knocking out the slave pin. Then use the Trigger Pin to push the punch back out. A little wiggling and aligning is usually required for the far side of the gun.

Voila - done!

[GuanoLoco]

OK, one more thing. I wanted to pick up a couple more magazines for (potential) carry and live and dry fire, as my odd collection of 19 round, 15+2, 15, and 10 converted to 15 wasn’t quite doing it for me. So, I went to Greg Cote and ordered another P-09 19 and a P10C 15+2.

I also went to HBindustries.net and ordered 4 of the CZ +2 base pads, which I like in all ways, and which even the 19+2 seems to conceal well in a DSG Koala AIWB pouch. I replaced all the flat base pads with the +2’s and lo, there was much rejoicing!

Note in the picture that EVERY one of these mags appears to have the slot cut for the P10C. Interesting. You should definitely save $10 or so with P10C over P-087/P-09 magazines if possible.

[miller_man]

Very interesting and thorough work and tinkering going on GL, I'm digging it :cool:.

I have one P-07 that has had the half cock trigger drop that I can induce. When CGW makes those parts available I will be checking them out/testing.


I have just got a few of the 07/p10 +2 mags. Starting to vet them in my pistols. Looking to grab a few more soon if they prove 100%

So it appears everyone is just running the stock spring in the mag, even when adding the +2 basepads?

[GuanoLoco]

Very interesting and thorough work and tinkering going on GL, I'm digging it :cool:.

I have one P-07 that has had the half cock trigger drop that I can induce. When CGW makes those parts available I will be checking them out/testing.


I have just got a few of the 07/p10 +2 mags. Starting to vet them in my pistols. Looking to grab a few more soon if they prove 100%

So it appears everyone is just running the stock spring in the mag, even when adding the +2 basepads?

Most of my testing was with the 15+2 using the base pad it came with. I didn’t change the springs when I installed the base pads so yes, more testing required. I could measure diameter of the spring wire and coil count of that mag vs the others too I suppose.

I’ve got a bunch of springs (regular asnd extra power) for 17 round Tanfoglio mags and the springs seem quite similar - I’ll check them to see if they match.

[miller_man]

Most of my testing was with the 15+2 using the base pad it came with. I didn’t change the springs when I installed the base pads so yes, more testing required. I could measure diameter of the spring wire and coil count of that mag vs the others too I suppose.

I’ve got a bunch of springs (regular asnd extra power) for 17 round Tanfoglio mags and the springs seem quite similar - I’ll check them to see if they match.

Awesome, thanks! - I mean, its not like your spending lots of time doing any other testing :D
I usually don't do lots of my practice or even matches with full mags, which is the best way to test them I'd figure. Will be doing so soon.

[ralph]

OK, one more trick.

If you have ever replaced a Trigger Return Spring on a CZ or a Tanfoglio, you have hopefully realized that the process is a lot easier if you use a slave pin. An expedient solution is a cut off piece of Q-tip shaft, of the ubiquitous red plastic nozzle from a bottle of OneShot or spray cleaner or lube.

A better solution is to cut off a piece of drill bit shaft about 0.090” diameter (sorry I forgot the Imperial size, but I’ll assue, 3/32”) that is ~0.32” long. Put the Trigger Return Spring in trigger, hold it down with your fnger, and insert the slave pin - being careful not to launch the spring into oblivion.

Put the trigger assembly back in the gun, carefully align it, then run a punch through where the Trigger Pin would go, knocking out the slave pin. Then use the Trigger Pin to push the punch back out. A little wiggling and aligning is usually required for the far side of the gun.

Voila - done!


I believe that's the method that CGW uses..One trick I use is to use the modified needlenose pliers that HK parts.net sells for replacing TRS's in HK's. I own a couple of HK's so, I happen to have the pliers, for HK's these are a must have for replacing the TRS, as I found, they also work with CZ's.. I simply push the trigger pin to one side, so that it's flush with the trigger, remove the old TRS, put the new TRS in the pliers with the long leg out, press it into place,hold it, and push the pin back in.. just another way to skin a cat...

[GuanoLoco]

I believe that's the method that CGW uses..One trick I use is to use the modified needlenose pliers that HK parts.net sells for replacing TRS's in HK's. I own a couple of HK's so, I happen to have the pliers, for HK's these are a must have for replacing the TRS, as I found, they also work with CZ's.. I simply push the trigger pin to one side, so that it's flush with the trigger, remove the old TRS, put the new TRS in the pliers with the long leg out, press it into place,hold it, and push the pin back in.. just another way to skin a cat...

So you use the "C" shape part of the pliers to grab the coils of the TRS? Sounds from description like they are custom made.

Pliers on sale for $14.95, 50% off. + $7 shipping. Meh...maybe.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Trigger-Return-Spring-Tool-For-All-HK-Pistols-p16031.htm

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[Doc_Glock]

So you use the "C" shape part of the pliers to grab the coils of the TRS? Sounds from description like they are custom made.

Pliers on sale for $14.95, 50% off. + $7 shipping. Meh...maybe.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Trigger-Return-Spring-Tool-For-All-HK-Pistols-p16031.htm

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100% worth it for HK use anyway.

[Trukinjp13]

So you use the "C" shape part of the pliers to grab the coils of the TRS? Sounds from description like they are custom made.

Pliers on sale for $14.95, 50% off. + $7 shipping. Meh...maybe.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Trigger-Return-Spring-Tool-For-All-HK-Pistols-p16031.htm

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I used my hk pliers for the p07 when I installed my pro grade. Worked out quite well. If you do not own them they may not be worth purchasing for the Cz but they did simplify things.

[ralph]

So you use the "C" shape part of the pliers to grab the coils of the TRS? Sounds from description like they are custom made.

Pliers on sale for $14.95, 50% off. + $7 shipping. Meh...maybe.

https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/Trigger-Return-Spring-Tool-For-All-HK-Pistols-p16031.htm

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Yes.they work quite well with CZ's, and like I said are a must have for HK's..IMO, they beat fooling around with a slave pin.. I just happened to have them as I have a few HK's, and thought I'd try them on a CZ, much to my suprise, they worked !!

[Clusterfrack]

The last thing I want to start is a lube argument, but I suggest trying a thicker oil and using some grease on the sear. I predict that will have a noticeable and possibly measurable effect on your trigger pull.

I use Lucas Extreme Gun Oil (http://a.co/d/4JE36wj) and Lucas Marine Grease (http://a.co/d/2yNl4Yr) (which appears to be the same product as the gun grease, but for a fraction of the cost).

Dab a bit of grease on the sear while pulling the hammer back all the way. Blow in with canned air to spread the grease. The other area I use a bit of grease is in the sear spring hole. That removes the gritty feel that can happen when the sear spring rubs against the top of the hole.




Here’s a pic of my trigger bar.

I previously polished it to a 3000 grit finish using a piece of glass to back the sandpaper. Note the scratches in it from rubbing against the frame. I’ll assume that was from some combination of lube (SLIP2000 EWL is my fav), powder residue and maybe some range gravel dust from multiple practice sessions and 1000+ rounds.

Yes, I had a trigger reset failure, yes the gun was dirty, yes I was using a ‘relieved’ Trigger Bar Spring (now replaced) and yes I see physical evidence of grit that was presumably trapped between the trigger bar and the frame.

CGW did their best to convince me that, while these guns benefit from maintenance and cleaning like any gun, they aren’t prone to failure just because of a little gunk. We shall see - I like testing heavily with some accumulated gunk.

[GuanoLoco]

The last thing I want to start is a lube argument, but I suggest trying a thicker oil and using some grease on the sear. I predict that will have a noticeable and possibly measurable effect on your trigger pull.

I use Lucas Extreme Gun Oil (http://a.co/d/4JE36wj) and Lucas Marine Grease (http://a.co/d/2yNl4Yr) (which appears to be the same product as the gun grease, but for a fraction of the cost).

Dab a bit of grease on the sear while pulling the hammer back all the way. Blow in with canned air to spread the grease. The other area I use a bit of grease is in the sear spring hole. That removes the gritty feel that can happen when the sear spring rubs against the top of the hole.

Interesting. I have a lifetime supply of a super-high quality 5% moly grease that a reputable source claims significantly increases the lifespan of forklifts (high pressure metal on metal) in industrial duty/dirty environments. I use it on rifle sears but never on pistol sears for no good reason. I hadn't really considered it for springs like the sear spring.

I think I gave away my bottle of Lucas oil but I have alternatives. SLIP2000 has always been very good to me but yes - thin.

I did notice that my post-polish, previously smooth-in-slow-motion trigger pull was not nearly as smooth 1000 rounds later. I hadn't dug in to it yet.

[Clusterfrack]

Lucas grease seems to reduce wear: I have 13,000+ rounds on a slide stop in my training Shadow2, and it’s still not deeply grooved.

[cheby]

Not a p07, but on my other czs I use grease on sear, slide stop, and trs only. I stopped using it anywhere on slide. I use 5w30 now. I like it better than Lucas because it stays longer.

[GuanoLoco]

[Re: 18# Hammer Spring.] WOW - DA is coming in at 7 lbs 15 oz and SA at 3 lbs even, both with a fair amount of consistency, and using the OEM, un-relieved Trigger Bar Spring.


I did notice that my post-polish, previously smooth-in-slow-motion trigger pull was not nearly as smooth 1000 rounds later. I hadn't dug in to it yet.

Well, I broke out the grease, Shell Gadus S3 V460XD (https://www.amazon.com/Shell-Gadus-S3-V460XD-10-PACK/dp/B07735S7VS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538196102&sr=8-1&keywords=Shell%2BGADUS%2BS3%2BV460XD%2B2&dpID=51-c8182q0L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1), a 5% MoS grease that meets the requirements of a variety of heavy equipment manufacturers.

I greased the parts I could get to without disassembly - the sear and the trigger return spring. Then I tested - that lack of smoothness I mentioned earlier was suddenly gone. I broke out the trigger tester - 7# 3 oz DA! And 3 lb 3 oz SA, 10 pulls each time.

I was contemplating the improbability of this so I repeated the test. Same result. Go figure...

I guess I’ll be using this grease more. Still using SLIP2000 on everything else though, at least for now.

[GuanoLoco]

330 rounds of flawless operation today with CCI primers. Testing the trigger afterwards, without cleaning I get a 7# 2oz DA and a 3.0# SA. The triger pull is very smooth and the consistency across 10 DA pulls was +/- 1 oz, the best I’ve seen yet. SA pulls were even more consistent. This is with the 18# hammer spring and OEM Trigger Bar Spring. LIKE!!!

I shot Dot Drills @ 7 yards, Gabe White Standards, FAST, draw drills and El Presidente, all from concealment (P-07/JMCK 2.5 AIWB/DSG Koala).

There were a few special moments, most notably a Personal Best Draw+1 from concealment, at 7 yards with 2 USPSA lower A-zone hits in 1.18s, 0.94 draw, 0.24 split. Trying to get draws from concealment in < 1.25s with an A zone hit is hard, doing it with a good enough grip and sight picture for follow-up A-zone shots is even harder.

El Prez (CM 99-11) run #2 from concealment in 6.60s with 11A 1C and a 8.79 Hit Factor, 85.6% USPSA HHF - just BARELY a Master Class run. Somewhere a chill just ran down Mr_White’s spine.

I had a 4.90s and 5.01 FAST clean, and a number of faster runs that were not quite clean. Boo. More work required.

PS> Almost forgot to mention - My CGW 0.220” and 0.230” rollers showed up, I have a 0.225” installed and the OEM roller was 0.223”. I am curious to see what happens but the gun is working so well that I don’t want to mess with anything!!!

[Trukinjp13]

Well, I broke out the grease, Shell Gadus S3 V460XD (https://www.amazon.com/Shell-Gadus-S3-V460XD-10-PACK/dp/B07735S7VS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1538196102&sr=8-1&keywords=Shell%2BGADUS%2BS3%2BV460XD%2B2&dpID=51-c8182q0L&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch&th=1), a 5% MoS grease that meets the requirements of a variety of heavy equipment manufacturers.

I greased the parts I could get to without disassembly - the sear and the trigger return spring. Then I tested - that lack of smoothness I mentioned earlier was suddenly gone. I broke out the trigger tester - 7# 3 oz DA! And 3 lb 3 oz SA, 10 pulls each time.

I was contemplating the improbability of this so I repeated the test. Same result. Go figure...

I guess I’ll be using this grease more. Still using SLIP2000 on everything else though, at least for now.

I trust in Cluster for p07 action!

[GuanoLoco]

I got out for another quick range session today, details posted to my Training Journal (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24023-Striving-to-Suck-Less&p=794469&viewfull=1#post794469).

The details are rather, uh, detailed. Suffice it to say that I have zero doubt that I will be able to use the CZ P-07 to achieve my goals of Turbo Pin times on the Gabe White Standards, coin-worthy runs on the FAST Drill, and (near+) GM-level runs on CM 99-11 El Presidente.

So, after 330 flawless rounds yesterday, and with no cleaning or lube added, I ran another 330 flawless rounds today, again rotating through all 6 magazines.

I came home and checked the trigger pull. Yea, I can detect a little build-up in the trigger press. I put it on the Trigger Scale to quantify and found a average 6# 15oz DA and a 3# 1oz SA with amazingly low variation across 10 pulls for each.

Yesterday afer shooting I was at 7# 2oz and 3# 0 oz. I have no idea what causes this day-to-day variation but it all works for me.

So, 660 failure-free rounds since I last worked on it. Should I hold out for another session and see of I can get it to 1000 flawless rounds without clean or lube? If I have a failure do I blame ‘dirty gun’? Hmmm... Pic of internals below:

I have to admit that I’m having thoughts that I have reached a carry-ready condition - how far should I go with my testing?

I also need to run some Federal HST 147’s but honestly I haven’t found a gun that will feed all my reloads (not to mention things like case gauge failures) and then choke on Fed HST’s. Still, I need to do it.

[Trukinjp13]

I got out for another quick range session today, details posted to my Training Journal (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24023-Striving-to-Suck-Less&p=794469&viewfull=1#post794469).

The details are rather, uh, detailed. Suffice it to say that I have zero doubt that I will be able to use the CZ P-07 to achieve my goals of Turbo Pin times on the Gabe White Standards, coin-worthy runs on the FAST Drill, and (near+) GM-level runs on CM 99-11 El Presidente.

So, after 330 flawless rounds yesterday, and with no cleaning or lube added, I ran another 330 flawless rounds today, again rotating through all 6 magazines.

I came home and checked the trigger pull. Yea, I can detect a little build-up in the trigger press. I put it on the Trigger Scale to quantify and found a average 6# 15oz DA and a 3# 1oz SA with amazingly low variation across 10 pulls for each.

Yesterday afer shooting I was at 7# 2oz and 3# 0 oz. I have no idea what causes this day-to-day variation but it all works for me.

So, 660 failure-free rounds since I last worked on it. Should I hold out for another session and see of I can get it to 1000 flawless rounds without clean or lube? If I have a failure do I blame ‘dirty gun’? Hmmm... Pic of internals below:

I have to admit that I’m having thoughts that I have reached a carry-ready condition - how far should I go with my testing?

I also need to run some Federal HST 147’s but honestly I haven’t found a gun that will fed all my reloads (not to mention things like case gauge failures) that choked on Fed HST’s. Still, I need to do it.

Thanks for the detailed follow ups from another set of eyes! I have had 2 p07s and neither have ever faltered on any ammo I have fed them. One was bone stock and this one is pro graded.

[Mr_White]

330 rounds of flawless operation today with CCI primers. Testing the trigger afterwards, without cleaning I get a 7# 2oz DA and a 3.0# SA. The triger pull is very smooth and the consistency across 10 DA pulls was +/- 1 oz, the best I’ve seen yet. SA pulls were even more consistent. This is with the 18# hammer spring and OEM Trigger Bar Spring. LIKE!!!

I shot Dot Drills @ 7 yards, Gabe White Standards, FAST, draw drills and El Presidente, all from concealment (P-07/JMCK 2.5 AIWB/DSG Koala).

There were a few special moments, most notably a Personal Best Draw+1 from concealment, at 7 yards with 2 USPSA lower A-zone hits in 1.18s, 0.94 draw, 0.24 split. Trying to get draws from concealment in < 1.25s with an A zone hit is hard, doing it with a good enough grip and sight picture for follow-up A-zone shots is even harder.

El Prez (CM 99-11) run #2 from concealment in 6.60s with 11A 1C and a 8.79 Hit Factor, 85.6% USPSA HHF - just BARELY a Master Class run. Somewhere a chill just ran down Mr_White’s spine.

I had a 4.90s and 5.01 FAST clean, and a number of faster runs that were not quite clean. Boo. More work required.

PS> Almost forgot to mention - My CGW 0.220” and 0.230” rollers showed up, I have a 0.225” installed and the OEM roller was 0.223”. I am curious to see what happens but the gun is working so well that I don’t want to mess with anything!!!

That doesn't fill me with dread, it fills me with joy! :)

[cheby]

I just talked to a buddy of mine who shot the IDPA Nationals this year. The guy who won the CCP this year was on his squad. The winner was shooting a P-07 (R Leathem was second BTW).

[Lon]

I bought a set of the Night Fision HD type sights for my P07 a few months ago. They came in about a month ago. Finally got em put on and went to the range today to shoot with them for the first time. I love this pistol. These make it better. I ran the FAST, Casino Drill and Dot Torture. Used the same sight picture I do for my 229 w/HD. Easy to hit what I was aiming at 7 yards and in. Ran one of my better Casino Drills - 13.08 clean.

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[LockedBreech]

Gotta say, I used to kinda yearn for a 75, but these days I keep my eye on the P07 WAY more.

[Lon]

Sight options were the only thing I didn’t like about the P07. The NF sights are really nice. Hope they hold up.

[Clusterfrack]

Sight options were the only thing I didn’t like about the P07. The NF sights are really nice. Hope they hold up.

Unfortunately the NF sights seem to print 3" high at 20 yds. I now have a sample size of two guns and two shooters. I will probably have a custom front tritium sight made at Dawson, and keep the NF rear.

[TheNewbie]

I owned a P-07 in the past and had no issues with it. I haven't followed this thread in a while, but are there still light strike problems in DA for some of you?

[GuanoLoco]

Update: I last posted here on 9/30; details below pulled from my Training Journal (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?12653-GuanoLoco).

10/6 - Shot another ~330 rounds, now at about 1000 rounds since opening up the trigger slot in the frame to allow sklightly more overtravel. I’m running the 15# hammer spring and CCI primers.

10/7 - Shot another ~330 rounds. Realizing slide lock reloads with a P-09 mag is not autoforwarding; slide release is stiff.

10/12 - Started working on refacing slide stop to improve alide release. Realize P-07 mags are working properly, P-09 mags are subject to over-insertion, impeding auto-forward and easy slide release.

10/14.- Shot 120 rounds on the P-07, 220 on the G19. I might have seen the slide get sluggish once or twice chambering a round. Probably time to at leaast lube. I started my comparison using the Gabe White Standards (GWS) of the CZ P-07 vs. a Glock 19.3 (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?12653-GuanoLoco), with 22 rounds on the G19. It’s taking me a bit to get e-calibrated swapping between the guns to do a fair comparison of my relative ability to shoot them using the GWS, FST, etc. as a reference point.

10/15 - Kick ass live fire session (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24023-Striving-to-Suck-Less/page10): Shot about 220 rounds on the P-07. I am most assuredly capable of shooting GWS Turbo Pin times on the P-07, just not consistently. The only lube or cleaning has been on the hammer spring, as I had tested trigger pull weights on a variety of hammer springs that I have. Now at about 1670 rounds - time to clean!

10/16 - Shot about 200 rounds on GWS with pair of G19s. I was a little tired, it was getting dark, and the session disn’t go as well as I would have liked, while yesterday’s session kicked butt. One of the G19’s had a couple of Failures to Feed using Magpul 17 round practice mags and my reloads (126-127PF, 124gr, stupid fast burning powder, stock recoil springs). The other shot fine.

I broke down and cleaned the P-07 (and G-19’s). Field stripped, briefly tosed in the ultrasonic cleaner with a 50/50 simple green/water mix for 10m at room temp, then hand-cleaned and re-lubed. It dawned on me that I might not be doing the P-07 TractionGrips any favors but didn’t notice any issues.

I took down the slide and noticed that the CGW Reduced Power Firing Pin spring (https://cajungunworks.com/product/97041-cgw-reduced-power-p-0709shadowcz97-firing-pin-spring/) had broken at about 25% of its length, however then gun was still working. Not re-assuring. I put in a replacement RP spring.

I am considering going back to the OEM FP Spring and the 18# hammer spring for testing and potential reliability. Still not carrying the gun.

Summary: Adding overtravel seems to have solved my issue 100%; P-07 mags (15+2 with base pad) work better than P-09 (19+2) mags for slide lock reloads, CGW RP Trigger springs MIGHT be a little weak/light for carry use, and you should probably at least lube your gun if you aren’t going to clean it. Perhaps a thicker lube that SLIP2000 EWL wiould work better, but it’s not like EWL isn’t working pretty well.

More on (tuned) P-07 vs. (tuned) G19-3 thoughts later.

[Clusterfrack]

Update on my P-07s. I spent some time comparing POI and sight dimensions of my two guns. One has the CGW/Dawson tritium sights (https://cajungunworks.com/product/40343-cz-p-07p-09-night-sights/), and the other has Night Fision tritiums (https://www.nightfision.com/product/night-fision-perfect-dot-tritium-night-sights-for-cz-usa).

Both sets of sights appear to have identical front and rear heights. These were measured to the top of the slide. Using Fed HST 147, POI was identical and on target at 7-10 yds. However, both guns hit 2-3" high at 20 to 25 yds. This is acceptable. I can now recommend the Night Fision sights (https://www.nightfision.com/product/night-fision-perfect-dot-tritium-night-sights-for-cz-usa), but only if you like a very tight sight picture (I do). These sights remind me of Ameriglo Operators, but with a more "high vis" front.

Dawson
Front: 0.162" high, 0.125" wide
Rear: 0.208" high, 0.135" notch

Night Fision
Front: 0.162" high, 0.140" wide
Rear: 0.208" high, 0.138" notch

GuanoLoco, why do you say the CGW trigger return spring is too light? Have you had it not return the trigger? Or is the SA pull too light? I am using the heavy 0.020" sear spring, which yields a 3-4# SA pull with the CGW TRS. That's interesting that you had a FP spring break. Are you using the CGW extended FP?

[GuanoLoco]

GuanoLoco, why do you say the CGW trigger return spring is too light? Have you had it not return the trigger? Or is the SA pull too light? I am using the heavy 0.020" sear spring, which yields a 3-4# SA pull with the CGW TRS. That's interesting that you had a FP spring break. Are you using the CGW extended FP?

I’m sorry, I mis-typed. I’ve been using the CGW Reduced Power Trigger Return Springs in my Tanfo Stock 2’s for years and they have been just fine - yes they brek eventully but that is expected.

And yes, I am using the CGW extended Firing Pin - All good so far except I MEANT to refer to the Firing Pin Springs. Let me try this again:


Summary: Adding overtravel seems to have solved my issue 100%; P-07 mags (15+2 with base pad) work better than P-09 (19+2) mags for slide lock reloads, CGW RP Firing Pin springs MIGHT be a little weak/light for carry use, and you should probably at least lube your gun if you aren’t going to clean it. Perhaps a thicker lube that SLIP2000 EWL wiould work better, but it’s not like EWL isn’t working pretty well.

I’d have to go back and count but I’m only 2-3000 rounds in and I don’t think I’ve ever broken a Firing Pin Spring before.

[DamnYankee]

For those interested in the Night Fision sights, use coupon code FACEPALM for a significant discount.

[GuanoLoco]

Cross-Posting from my Training Journal: CZ P-07 vs. Glock 19-3 Performance Analysis (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24023-Striving-to-Suck-Less&p=801705&viewfull=1#post801705)

I think I will go buy a CZ P-09/Green, install the CGW Pro-Upgrade Kit, Polish, Dawson Sights & Traction Grip and use it as a complement and possible upgrade to my P-07 Suppressor Ready. My JMCK 2.5 holster and incoming 2.0 holster are both fot the P09, and I can conceal the P-07 with the 15+2 magazines easily enough.

I can’t say I’m ready to replace my G19’s, but the P-07 is certainly head-to-head comparable and each gun has its subtle and occasionally not-so-subtle advantages and disadvantages.

Not-so-subtle advantages of G19: Simplicity of design and ease of work, magazine cost, reload design.

[Mjolnir]

For those interested in the Night Fision sights, use coupon code FACEPALM for a significant discount.

They are “the best” sights available for the CZ pistol lineup.


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[Calvin118]

I recently got a P-09 to see what I was missing. I tried it in stock configuration, and found that the DA was a pretty much unusable 13lbs of grit and stacking. The SA pull was uneven and had lots of creep. The reset was longer than I am used to, but Bill Drill times were competitive with Glock or M&P 2.0 shooting SA only. To top things off, the sights hit 4" high at 25 yards with whatever ammunition I tried.

I ordered the CGW pro kit, and found that it was easy to install. The DA was reduced to a still surprisingly heavy 10.5 lbs. It remained grittier than expected as well, but was improved enough that I could make decent hits from the DA draw.

The CGW kit made the reset excellent and improved the SA dramatically. There is still a touch of creep in the SA, but not noticeable unless the trigger is pressed extremely slowly.

After installing the CGW pro kit, the safety would no longer work and my option became de-cocker only.

The 15lb spring caused two light strikes on CCI primers in the first 100 rounds. I never had this problem with any of my other guns and the load I use is well vetted. The 18lb spring was substituted and no further light strikes thus far.

I ordered The Dawson fiber optic sight package, and found that the gun continued to hit 4" high at 25 yards.

The gun is very large, but the grip is quite narrow. I have >95th percentile hands, and even with the large grip insert the grip circumference and reach is on the small side for me. Glocks with large beavertail backstraps, M&P FS or 2.0C with large inserts, and Sig 320's (even the medium grip) as well as older P226 or 92FS with large grip panels all work very well for me. I did not feel like the P-09 fit my hand well. During recoil, it had a tendency to slip a little bit in my hand and the sights did not settle down as consistently as an M&P or Glock. This made it harder to accomplish lower probability hits at speed, and illustrates the point is that there is no "best", "flattest shooting" or "softest shooting" gun. Those answers will be different for everyone, and will depend upon the interaction between the gun and each unique combination of hand size, hand shape, and grip technique.

The good news is that no matter how hard I tried, I could not replicate the de-cocking glitch with either the stock or GCW configuration.

I am underwhelmed so far, but not ready to give up yet. My action plan is as follows:

1. Contact Dawson and get a replacement front sight with a more appropriate height
2. Polish trigger bar etc.
3. I just added an older Hogue grip sleeve that fits the gun extremely well. It seems to help quite a bit, at least with table top handling.
4. 18 lb spring has replaced the 15lb spring.

[JR1572]

I just picked up a P07 yesterday. I’m looking forward to see whether or not this pistol lives up to all of the hype.

Other than a CGW action job/kit, what else should I change?

[GuanoLoco]

I just picked up a P07 yesterday. I’m looking forward to see whether or not this pistol lives up to all of the hype.

Other than a CGW action job/kit, what else should I change?

CGW Pro-Grade upgrade and polish job - hammer spring to taste. You could get by with a subset of this.
Sights to preference - I’d suggest Dawson with the guarantee, strong pref for flat back/fiber fronts.
Traction Grips or equivalent
Regular and +2 Extended magazines. P10c’s are cheaper and compatible. Note the longer P-09 mags interfere with the slide stop / autoforward.
A lot of dry/live fire reps to smooth things out and get the springs off their factory set

[Clusterfrack]

Here’s some more info:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?31326-Suggestions-for-replacement-carry-piece&p=744301&viewfull=1#post744301

Additionally:
-Apply some Lucas marine grease (or Lucas Extreme Gun grease) to the sear & hammer surfaces, and blow in with canned air. This alone can make a huge difference. After I told him about it, GuanoLoco wrote about his experience in the P-07 thread recently.

-Put a tiny dab of grease in the sear spring hole. This smooths the SA pull. You do not have to disassemble the lower to do this. You can see the spring and the hole when the slide is removed. Put some grease in there and blow it in with canned air.

As well, I suggest evaluating the quality of the trigger at a reasonable pull speed, as in normal shooting.

[Mjolnir]

I just picked up a P07 yesterday. I’m looking forward to see whether or not this pistol lives up to all of the hype.

Other than a CGW action job/kit, what else should I change?

Night Fision makes some superb sights for CZ (and Glock & HK, too).


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[JR1572]

CGW Pro-Grade upgrade and polish job - hammer spring to taste. You could get by with a subset of this.
Sights to preference - I’d suggest Dawson with the guarantee, strong pref for flat back/fiber fronts.
Traction Grips or equivalent
Regular and +2 Extended magazines. P10c’s are cheaper and compatible. Note the longer P-09 mags interfere with the slide stop / autoforward.
A lot of dry/live fire reps to smooth things out and get the springs off their factory set

Thanks. Do you think I should have CGE do the work or install the kit myself? Doing it myself will be cheaper but I won’t get the overtravel stop and polishing. Furthermore which hammer spring should I use since I mainly shoot whatever steel case ammo that’s on sale. Also, I want to go with the Dawson sights. What is the proper front sight height for the P07? I’ve read of people using the P09 set and the gun printing high at 25 yards.


Here’s some more info:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?31326-Suggestions-for-replacement-carry-piece&p=744301&viewfull=1#post744301

Additionally:
-Apply some Lucas marine grease (or Lucas Extreme Gun grease) to the sear & hammer surfaces, and blow in with canned air. This alone can make a huge difference. After I told him about it, GuanoLoco wrote about his experience in the P-07 thread recently.

-Put a tiny dab of grease in the sear spring hole. This smooths the SA pull. You do not have to disassemble the lower to do this. You can see the spring and the hole when the slide is removed. Put some grease in there and blow it in with canned air.

As well, I suggest evaluating the quality of the trigger at a reasonable pull speed, as in normal shooting.

Thanks Clusterfrack. I’ll try those.


Night Fision makes some superb sights for CZ (and Glock & HK, too).


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Thanks Mjolnir. I’m very impressed by those sights, but I’m going to try the Dawson’s.

[GuanoLoco]

On my P-07, the LAST thing I needed was an overtravel stop. I had to OPEN the back of the frame a hair to GET enough overtravel for reliable operation, and apparently this isn’t uncommon.

Changing hammer springs is pretty easy. I’ve had good luck with the 15 lb on CCI’s which are relatively hard but the 18lb should light everything.

Are you at all handy with gun internals? Are you interested? Do you have any tools like punch pins, etc.? A P-07 is a lot more challenging than aa Glock but easier than some guns.

[JR1572]

On my P-07, the LAST thing I needed was an overtravel stop. I had to OPEN the back of the frame a hair to GET enough overtravel for reliable operation, and apparently this isn’t uncommon.

Changing hammer springs is pretty easy. I’ve had good luck with the 15 lb on CCI’s which are relatively hard but the 18lb should light everything.

Are you at all handy with gun internals? Are you interested? Do you have any tools like punch pins, etc.? A P-07 is a lot more challenging than aa Glock but easier than some guns.

I’m sure I can do it. I’ve worked on a few handguns before. I’m sure it’s not as bad as the trigger spring in the P30.

I’m looking forward to doing it myself.

[Mirolynmonbro]

I used to get 100% ignition with my blue hammer spring with S&B and Winchester primers but a new batch of S&B primers are harder and I had to go up to the 18lb hammer spring with it. After these are done I'm going back to Winchesters

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[Wynn615]

At the range a few months my P07 experienced a dead trigger. I notice every couple of round the hammer would not reset / would stay over cocked if that makes sense. Is this an issue I can fix or something I need to send into CZ?

I have attached a picture showing where the hammer gets stuck (green circle) I do not have my P07 with me. I can post actual photos when I get back to town.

- Wynn

33656

[Clusterfrack]

Wynn615, any mods to this gun?

[JR1572]

I shot the P07 today and I’m impressed. I’ve been shooting glocks for a while and I haven’t spent any time behind a DA/SA gun in over 3 years so there’s a little bit of a learning curve. After I got used to the trigger today I wasn’t having any problems keeping the rounds inside the black of a B8@25 yards.