An internet meme I can get behind:

[Firestickfilms]

It is not invalid, it just does not belong wholly to you. Also your parents paid significantly (adjusted for inflation) higher taxes than you or I do now, taxes that were used for our education and the infastucture that allowed them to provide for us and our current sucsess.

Look at it like this...

You (Todd) are very talented firearms instructor with a series of excellent classes and a website and forum to support the community. You worked hard to develop your skills, your curriculum and your following. You deserve all the credit and income from these endevours.

However, you did not invent:
The bullet, the firearm, training or teaching, the internet (that was Al Gore or the software that your website and this forum runs on.

So to say that you could have gotten to this place solely on your own is not credible.
You were lucky enugh to be born into a home, community and a country that allowed you to pursue these endevours, and you could not have achieved them without the support of your parents, teachers, community, collegues, software developers and the internet.

So the point Obama's making is again "you didn't build that". "That" being the opportunities that afforded you your business success.

Now, where I think the real philosophical divide is, is who you believe the government should be trying to create those opportunities for? Those that have sucsess already or those in need of opportuinites for sucsess in the first place.

[Ray Keith]

Now, where I think the real philosophical divide is, is who you believe the government should be trying to create those opportunities for? Those that have sucsess already or those in need of opportuinites for sucsess in the first place.

No, the real philosophical divide is whether this is a legitimate role of government at all. Assuming arguendo that this is really Obama's purpose, which it isn't. Obama and his ilk need a permanent underclass, one that is beholden to them for subsistence, protection and now the ability to even stay in this country. If you are in such straits, you will be unthinkingly loyal to the power that provides these things, you will hate those who threaten these things and will easily believe anything that your provider says about them.

[Jac]

It is not invalid, it just does not belong wholly to you. Also your parents paid significantly (adjusted for inflation) higher taxes than you or I do now, taxes that were used for our education and the infastucture that allowed them to provide for us and our current sucsess.

Look at it like this...

You (Todd) are very talented firearms instructor with a series of excellent classes and a website and forum to support the community. You worked hard to develop your skills, your curriculum and your following. You deserve all the credit and income from these endevours.

However, you did not invent:
The bullet, the firearm, training or teaching, the internet (that was Al Gore or the software that your website and this forum runs on.

So to say that you could have gotten to this place solely on your own is not credible.
You were lucky enugh to be born into a home, community and a country that allowed you to pursue these endevours, and you could not have achieved them without the support of your parents, teachers, community, collegues, software developers and the internet.

So the point Obama's making is again "you didn't build that". "That" being the opportunities that afforded you your business success.

Now, where I think the real philosophical divide is, is who you believe the government should be trying to create those opportunities for? Those that have sucsess already or those in need of opportuinites for sucsess in the first place.

No, the *real* philisophical divide is between those who believe that the government should be trying to create opportunities for anyone and those who believe the government has no business interefering in such matters.

[Firestickfilms]

The problem with the above analysis is that the underclass is a very unreliable electorate.
There is no "welfare state" in this country, most of what did constitue welfare as we concieve it was gutted in the 90s by Gingrich and Clinton. What exists today as welfare is only "livable" by those comitting fraud. They certainly exists but not in any numbers significant to presidential campaign.

As far as poverty goes, you can never end poverty just as you can never stop fires, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to put them out.

[Ray Keith]

The problem with the above analysis is that the underclass is a very unreliable electorate.
There is no "welfare state" in this country, most of what did constitue welfare as we concieve it was gutted in the 90s by Gingrich and Clinton. What exists today as welfare is only "livable" by those comitting fraud. They certainly exists but not in any numbers significant to presidential campaign.

As far as poverty goes, you can never end poverty just as you can never stop fires, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to put them out.

What then is the end game to the argument of "you didn't build that"? What is the therefore...? To continue the TLG thread since he threw it out there, "Todd you didn't build your business, someone else made that happen...therefore"... ? Todd is overwhelmed by the circular reasoning and breaks down in tears and says OKAY!! I give up! I am nothing without all of these other people offering me untold advantages that the underclass doesn't have!!!" What do you or Obama want from him?

[Jac]

As far as poverty goes, you can never end poverty just as you can never stop fires, but that shouldn't stop us from trying to put them out.

I hope you're not talking about forest fires; if you are, you've obviously never lived out west.

[Firestickfilms]

No, the *real* philisophical divide is between those who believe that the government should be trying to create opportunities for anyone and those who believe the government has no business interefering in such matters.

That is a concept both sides abandonded long ago, about the same time politicians started needing to buy air time.

[ToddG]

So to say that you could have gotten to this place solely on your own is not credible.

So in other words, this whole thing is about Obama stating the obvious? Because, yeah, the economy would probably not work if there was only one person on Earth. Hard to be an instructor (or doctor, or lawyer, or general contractor, or garbage man) if there were no other people. Thank God for other people!

[Ray Keith]

That is a concept both sides abandonded long ago, about the same time politicians started needing to buy air time.

Which doesn't make it illegitimate any more than it makes the opposite legitimate. Franklin's fear is being realized. Government has become a goody dispenser, it's purpose is to provide stuff and apparently opportunity, economic reality be damned (or just unknown). I think however you can take great comfort in knowing that modern education and culture are churning out young minds with no concept of the concept of limited government, economics or much else-faux self-esteem perhaps. Your side is certainly winning, I think in a generation or two everyone will know what you've won.

[Jameson]

IMO, I have yet to imagine a context in which the comment sounds less disgusting.

Most of us that have taken risks, busted our asses, and made conscious decisions to strive for certain things in life that have proved to be difficult, would *not* agree that our success was the result of the 'Borg collective' or whatever picture Obama was attempting to paint.