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Thread: Drop in Short Reset for HK

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    You seem pretty edumacated on how this trigger works. I have taken them apart and swapped LEM for TDA triggers on the P30 system and see how it goes together, but I can't say I really understand the mechanics what actuates what and when. Can you explain it simply? Or do you know of a manual or video that explains it well?

    Is there any problem driving the sear the way Gray Guns says they do?
    As far as the second question I'm not sure yet. I have only seen it go one way. So long as it is able to move and reset without slapping anything or fatiguing the sear spring do to increased speed/changing the point of contact thus the actuation, I don't see a potential issue. But I'd have to mess with it or see how it interacted. Which will be difficult as you know having changed the parts yourself how small of a space we're talking about here, you have to really watch it, and the contact points are obscured because the action happens below all of the moving parts as you also know. But you'll know if it messes up the Sear spring because you'll get hammer follow if it does. If it smacks it out of line or fatigues it, that's what happens. IT happened to Todd Green in his LEM, I forget where in the test though.


    As for the second part of the question, HK likes to be complicated but a smooth symphony of parts working together. I initially thought it was the trigger bar that made the whole interaction sloppy but it appears to be catch and that part of the sear group. A lot of people have made micro adjustments in the trigger feel with the light FPB and the Nickel coated sear spring. It would be easier to show you internally with a pistol apart. But if you take your slide off and hold the hammer with your thumb. You can reset the action by pressing the top part of the disconnector towards the right hand side with the pistol facing away from you. The part all the way towards the frame. That part has the eyelet sticking out that you can see and moves the most in the process with the pistol apart, it pretty much is completely responsible for starting to reset everything when the slide moves. The rest of the parts interface with it to get going. So I thought that eyelet which appeared to be larger was also the culprit. But The part they've engineered here controls most of the movement and is responsible for resetting the sear. The catch and control lever (which is the part Grayguns is providing) moves the sear around to interface with the sear spring located in the magazine well of the frame. By changing the geometry of the control lever or whatever they did, I have look at it more closely when I get it and compare the parts side by side.... but my guess is they changed the length of one of the arms which would shorten the overall travel of the sear mechanism allowing it to reset in the same physical space but change the rate/distance in which it does it. They also do that without chopping any springs which is nice because that was a Bill Springfield maneuver and when it came time to replace anything you'd undo his work. Plus the chopped springs caused reliability issues and messed with the system. I really don't like chopped springs.

    Grayguns did it right, this is the part you want to change to effectively make this happen without messing with anything else. It also doesn't move that much, you can see it move when you mess with the trigger when the gun is apart. It maybe moves 10-15 degrees, possibly less than that I was being generous. Although I'm not sure how only coating the control lever will interact with the rest of the non-coated parts in the system. We'll see and I can't wait to get my hands on it. I'll do an install and comparison video with as much nerdy detail as possible.
    Last edited by navyman8903; 01-04-2019 at 12:28 AM.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    I will take a shot at explaining.



    The trigger bar tab (red arrow) pulls on the the bottom of what HK calls the “control lever” (Red arrow). This rotates around the axis of the pin and several things happen consecutively and near simultaneously. The control lever pushes up on the firing pin block (blue arrow), and simultaneously pushes forward on a pin at the bottom of the the “hammer catch” which pivots down so the hammer can fall (green arrow). The hammer catch pushes the “release catch” (aka sear) forward releasing the hammer.

    The GrayGuns part replaces the control lever. They claim it “Converts the action to drive the sear directly off the safety lever – instead of transferring energy through the drop safety catch – for a direct drive connection between the trigger bar and sear”

    I think that means they don’t use the “control lever” to push the pin on the “hammer catch”, rather driving the hammer catch directly which then drives the sear.

    I interpret their use of the term “drop safety catch” to mean the “control lever” which deactivates the firing pin block in the slide.

    I have no idea if it is safe.

    The back of the hammer catch is normally pushed up to “catch” the hammer on decocking by the sear spring.

    Anyway it is a clever system. And it is relatively simple to take apart. But it ain’t a Glock.
    I have to give you the nod Sir. You gave a proper operational explanation and provided a picture, with much more brevity.

  3. #33
    Hammertime
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
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    Desert Southwest
    After thinking about it and staring at the diagrams a while. The GrayGuns part takes put a portion of the back, bottom of the control lever to gain the reduced reset. Essentially they are lifting the firing pin block and pushing forward the hammer catch simultaneously while the stock part does this sequentially.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    After thinking about it and staring at the diagrams a while. The GrayGuns part takes put a portion of the back, bottom of the control lever to gain the reduced reset. Essentially they are lifting the firing pin block and pushing forward the hammer catch simultaneously while the stock part does this sequentially.
    I'm interested to see if it increases wear, and I agree with your assessment.

  5. #35
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    New Mexico
    Supposedly this is the Gray Guns control lever:

    Attachment 33856

    Factory H&K:

    Attachment 33857
    Last edited by JodyH; 01-04-2019 at 08:05 AM.
    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by JodyH View Post
    Supposedly this is the Gray Guns control lever:

    Attachment 33856

    Factory H&K:

    Attachment 33857
    The cuts are interesting. Based on the orientation of the picture, it's interesting to see where they relieved material. Especially the "bay" or "apex" of the bar between the right arm and bottom leg of the control lever. The most obvious is the bottom of the control lever, but the forward facing edge of the right arm of the control lever cut is interesting. I figured the cut on the bottom was the biggest, but the two other cuts/relief work in the other two spots I mentioned is interesting for sure. I'm curious to see how it runs. I'm going to try to do my best to do as detailed of an analysis as possible when I get mine in the mail. I might order a LEM kit as well.

  7. #37
    Received and installed mine last night. Gun would not fire unless I applied pressure on the right side of the slide towards the left. Sent Grayguns an email with video. Won’t hear back until Monday.


  8. #38
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Reston VA
    Quote Originally Posted by thward89 View Post
    Received and installed mine last night. Gun would not fire unless I applied pressure on the right side of the slide towards the left. Sent Grayguns an email with video. Won’t hear back until Monday.

    Well I was incredible excited about this kit for my P30SK v1 but now I'm glad it sold out before I had the chance to order from the first batch. Think I'll be waiting to see multiple kits with 1k's of rounds through as I don't have a "spare" p30 to tinker with
    Last edited by ChaseN; 01-05-2019 at 09:10 AM.

  9. #39
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
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    New Mexico
    Quote Originally Posted by thward89 View Post
    Gun would not fire unless I applied pressure on the right side of the slide towards the left.
    Did you try dropping it?













    "For a moment he felt good about this. A moment or two later he felt bad about feeling good about it. Then he felt good about feeling bad about feeling good about it and, satisfied, drove on into the night."
    -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy --

  10. #40
    Site Supporter CCT125US's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ohio
    @thward89 I bet this will be brought up, from the product page

    Not saying it's right, but bet it will play.

    "Disclaimer

    These parts are intended for installation by a qualified armourer or gunsmith. In some cases professional fitting will be required by a trained, qualified armorer/gunsmith who is very familiar with the pistol’s action. This is due to the varying tolerances present in all mass-produced firearms. Although kits fit with no issues in a great majority of pistols, Grayguns is unable to guarantee perfect functionality in every instance. Grayguns does offer installation services for all parts kits we offer."
    Participation does not equal Proficiency
    - Mike Pannone

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