IDPA Scenario Threads...

[_JD_]

These are in the rule book.

This.

And if IDPA wanted it to be prohibited, it would in the rule book as such.

Keep in mind I'm not saying that I'm going to run a retention drill in every match, only that it does have some merit in being included when it comes to defensive pistol shooting and exposes some shooters to something new that is defensive in nature that they may not be able to do elsewhere.

I get that it's a hard topic as there is no standard for it, and that it should be done in very limited circumstances and in as safe a manner as possible (further reading elsewhere shows that a lot of people advocate lowering the target, removing the down zero, and the head as to limit the likelihood of shots going high) but I didn't expect this much hullabaloo over it but it's definitely helping in getting a grasp on what may be too over the top.

[ToddG]

I get that it's a hard topic as there is no standard for it,

That's it right there, dude. You can keep justifying it as "defensive" but IDPA is a game. It's supposed to be a fair shooting competition. You can come up with all sorts of skills and technique you think people should know but that doesn't mean they're fit for inclusion in the game.

As soon as you start trying to make your match into a lesson it's no longer a match and shouldn't be billed as such.

There are all sorts of things that aren't specifically outlawed in IDPA. That doesn't mean they're all appropriate.

[_JD_]

That's it right there, dude. You can keep justifying it as "defensive" but IDPA is a game. It's supposed to be a fair shooting competition. You can come up with all sorts of skills and technique you think people should know but that doesn't mean they're fit for inclusion in the game.

As soon as you start trying to make your match into a lesson it's no longer a match and shouldn't be billed as such.

There are all sorts of things that aren't specifically outlawed in IDPA. That doesn't mean they're all appropriate.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time, SHO and WHO are similar skills that many could claim are unfair because they don't practice doing it?
Is the only difference that IDPA sets rules in place for target distances for SHO and WHO, head shots etc.?
If there was some standardization in the rule book for shooting from retention would that change things?
What about some of the things you do in the KSTM, like bashing melons with a bat for example? How does that relate to:

You can keep justifying it as "defensive" but IDPA is a game. It's supposed to be a fair shooting competition. You can come up with all sorts of skills and technique you think people should know but that doesn't mean they're fit for inclusion in the game

I understand that KSTM is billed as IDPA Etc. Just drawing a parallel. Keep in mind that we are not yet IDPA affiliated and are not currently bound by their rules, so in fact we're more "IDPAish" rather than IDPA.


Also, please don't think I'm trying to be argumentative, I'm really enjoying this conversation, it's just that there's some contradictory postings from different members, all of which probably have more IDPA and overall match experience than me.

[TheRoland]

If there was some standardization in the rule book for shooting from retention would that change things?

I don't think it's a good idea, but for me, it would probably change things.

What about some of the things you do in the KSTM, like bashing melons with a bat for example?

I don't shoot KSTG, but I'd probably be fine with a melon-bash due to it being quick, fun and novel, not due to any principled interpretation of the rules or application of shooting skills. If it turned into half the stage at a major match, I probably wouldn't think it was so fun.

Also, please don't think I'm trying to be argumentative, I'm really enjoying this conversation, it's just that there's some contradictory postings from different members, all of which probably have more IDPA and overall match experience than me.

I'm enjoying the conversation, too, and IDPA rules are somewhat tailored to start arguments like this.

[NEPAKevin]

And if IDPA wanted it to be prohibited, it would in the rule book as such.

... or in the addendum or on the online clarifications.

[_JD_]

... or in the addendum or on the online clarifications.

Yep, nothing in the addendum, the on-line clarification thing still bothers me, that's topic for another thread...But yeah, so far nothing prohibiting shooting from retention there either.

[ToddG]

If there was some standardization in the rule book for shooting from retention would that change things?

100%. I may not like it -- there are things I don't agree with in the IDPA rule book now -- but it would be perfecting reasonable if the game specified shooting from retention in terms of what that meant, when and how it could be used in a stage, etc.

[shootist26]

what are all of your opinions on stages w/ pickup guns?

[ToddG]

what are all of your opinions on stages w/ pickup guns?

For a local club match, sure. It could give someone an advantage -- if your pickup gun is a j-frame, some guys are going to be experienced j-frame shooters and some will never have touched one before -- but the fun and novelty probably outweigh that.

For major events, I think it's very poor form. The S&W match had pickup guns for a few years and it always left a bad taste in people's mouths because there was a feeling that "S&W shooters have more experience shooting S&W guns" thus making the pickup less more familiar for them. I don't know how true that really is, but it still creates another instance of the MD/stage/game tilting the playing field in favor of some people.

[LHS]

what are all of your opinions on stages w/ pickup guns?

I agree with Todd: awesome for club matches, not so much for big matches. I've had some club matches with awesome pickups, including an Uzi, a Makarov, a S&W M10, and even one time a cheap Raven .25 (which I thought was borderline unsafe).