Steve Bannon & Roy Moore

[LockedBreech]

On Trump:
All economic indicators (stock market, job growth, unemployment) are pointing towards him doing a phenomenal job.
And you can prove this by how big a dip the market takes when there's news that looks bad for Trump.

No argument the economy is doing well. I disagree with Trump getting all the credit. When Obama left office unemployment was at 4.8%, currently 4.1%. The market had also been going up for 92 months when Trump took office. He definitely spiked the stock market significantly, but the economy was trucking along decently well.

On the foreign policy front our enemies have been quiet, our allies are finding their balls again and we've pulled out of shitty trade deals without repercussions.
Other countries may not like or fear us but they are respecting us as a nation again, even as they mutter under their breath what a buffoon Trump is.
Well... that buffoon just left you're brilliant leaders holding the bag on bullshit climate change initiatives and trade deals that would have shafted America.

On that I disagree entirely. Our biggest enemy is Russia, and the world is laughing as they watch Trump be easily manipulated by him. Despite near-unanimous federal agency agreement that Russia tampered with the election, Putin told Trump he didn't know about it and Trump indicated that he believed him, just like that. Believed that the former master spy who poisons his enemies that he was totally unaware of mass-scale election tampering going on under his authoritarian government's watch.

Being the single country that continues to deny and pull out of climate change measures isn't a leadership indicator, it's a science-denial indicator. I have not seen any respect or fear from world leaders, more an eye-rolling contempt. A matter of perspective, I suppose.

I confess that it's hard for me to objectively view his policies when he brings such indignity to the office. Presidents don't tweet shade at celebrities and athletes they don't like. It indicates a level of insecurity and pettiness I find very disturbing from my elected leader.

I don't want to derail the Moore thread any further but I appreciate having a brief civil back-and-forth, and I acknowledge your point that economically we're doing darn well right now.

[Morbidbattlecry]

I just wish these guys would vote for what they are supposed to...benefit to their States and that States constituency. Like the Dem senators from Montana and West Virginia he will vote the way Pelosi and Schummer wants for their San Francisco’s and NY progressive agenda. He ll be just fine with a “assault weapons” ban, cuz no Fudd needs one to hunt....and he is a hunter.

Oh me too man 100%. I hate that the Left tows the party line on guns. Hate it.

[Caballoflaco]

It's not exactly the same thing as the Sharia example. I am guessing you and our founders would have had very different views on things.

At least you admit you prefer the democrat. So many people who were conservative and would not vote for Trump would not admit they were helping the left and Hillary.

I may not have similar views to the founders, though I do think there's decent evidence many were Diests. I'm sure you'll disagree, but I wish the republicans would just drop the whole God thing. With the exception of extremist sects I've found exactly zero correlation between anybody's professed belief system and their integrity as human beings; especially politicians.

Disclaimer:
While I now consider myself a godless heathen, I find no fault or weakness in a man who finds a belief system that provides him with spiritual comfort. I also never voted for a candidate based on their religious beliefs, even during the 9 years I was of voting age and a devout "born again" Christian.

Edited for grammar and the clarity of thought this discussion and forum deserves.

[Nephrology]

Oh me too man 100%. I hate that the Left tows the party line on guns. Hate it.

Some of this is changing.

Finally, the character of leaders absolutely influences what they do in office. Virtually EVERY organization that trains leaders lists character as a key attribute for effectiveness. Trump’s character is a big reason why many of you will be paying 30% higher healthcare premiums in 2018. I’d have thought that 16 years of Clinton-Obama polices would have settled that misguided notion.

Character for me trumps party affiliation by a country mile. If I cannot fundamentally respect someone's character, I will not trust their political agenda. As a relatively young person here (born in '88), my young life was dominated by the presidencies of George W. Bush and Barack Obama.

I found them both to be highly imperfect politicians, but I respected them both as human beings. I believed they were both genuinely trying their best in highly imperfect circumstances, even when I did not necessarily agree with their decisions or political beliefs. I also believe they both suffered from some normal human faults and flaws, but neither to a degree that I could not identify in myself.

Our current president? Jesus H Christ...

[blues]

Speaking of religion and politics, I find it particularly offensive that Moore has the audacity to invoke the hand of God in his bid for election. Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.

[RoyGBiv]

Speaking of religion and politics, I find it particularly offensive that Moore has the audacity to invoke the hand of God in his bid for election. Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.

Agreed.
If you can't make a secular argument to support your position, you've lost me.
Of course many people are guided by principles and morals that derive from their religions... however... "Because God..." is never a reason for your opinion to trump mine.
There's a huge difference between an opinion that's formed from religious beliefs and forcing those with different beliefs to bend to your non-secular opinions in a secular debate.

[Caballoflaco]

Speaking of religion and politics, I find it particularly offensive that Moore has the audacity to invoke the hand of God in his bid for election. Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.

He's been doing this since I was knee-high to a Tenessee Walking Horse.

[RJ]

Almost seems proof positive of his non-existence.

Or the other way around, given the election result.

*RimShot*

I’m here all week.

[Sensei]

@Sensei Question, as I don't know, but how is Trump responsible for the hike? I'm not aware of anything that has changed regarding the ACA.

Precisely. The failure to repeal the ACA was a failure of leadership. Primarily, a failure of Republican leadership in the Senate, but also a failure on Trump’s part. Some of Trump’s failure can be traced to painfully obvious character flaws such as over-promising on a level that calls his honesty into question - a key character trait. Watch this clip from 60 Minutes: https://youtu.be/TPJfKdp3bDs
Does anyone seeing that actually believe that it is possible to provide 30+ MILLION uninsurables with BETTER care and LOWER costs? What is a Senator from a state like OH to believe when asked to vote on a bill that cuts Medicaid funding to their state when the nation’s CEO can’t be trusted to articulate a clear reason for the sacrifice or vision that doesn’t involve made-up BS?

Then, there is the issue of his very public (and needless) bickering with key stakeholders such as McCain and Flake. Name calling is juvenile; arguing who started it is infantile.

Jody is correct about Moore. He was a goofball at best, but I will take a goofball any day over a leftist.

Sensei you are right about character influencing voters. I just don't think it should. What they do in office policy wise is much more important to me than most of their skeletons are.

I didn’t say that character just influences voters; it mostly influences leaders. That is to say, leaders with obvious character flaws tend to quickly find themselves without willing followers.

[idahojess]

Maybe I'm just tired -- but it seems some in this thread are blaming Trump for Moore. Trump ain't perfect (far from it), but he endorsed Luther Strange in the primary. Does anyone think that Strange wouldn't have won?

I think the biggest issue in this race, and in a lot of races, is that the Democrat Opposition research seems to be a hell of a lot better than Republican research during the primaries. All the nasty stuff (including the infamous Billy Bush comments) gets brought out after the primaries and after Republicans are stuck with their crappy horse.

That said, I hope Doug Jones can be a blue dog democrat, and vote with his state on important issues. I have no problem with conservative democrats, they just don't seem to exist anymore (outside of Mason County, Washington...)