Sig sued over defective pistols

[KhanRad]

All my Sigs have the short legacy extractor (P220R, P226R, P229R) and have always extracted strong and true, though my P226 did double-feed a few times before I learned to lubricate it properly.. Over time, it has become clear that the new extractor design is inferior. I wonder if they'll ever go back.

The push to get away from the short machined extractor was......*drum roll*......that it was too expensive to machine the slides for it, and too expensive to machine the extractor design. The classic Sig Sauer pistol is a machined part gun.....so keep your grubby MIM hands off it Sig!

MIM is fine if used for the right application and done right. Outsourcing small parts to Brazil was a huge mistake several years ago. When was the last time a quality product came out of Brazil? Sig had some made in India and Taiwan recently too......I've lost track of things now days as they change vendors so often.

At this point, Sig really should consider discontinuing the classic line instead of cheapening its quality so that it ends up dying a disgraceful death. Keep the LE and Mil contract guns going(with machined parts), but focus on the P320 series which is designed with newer generation technology and was designed to incorporate MIM parts from conception. Plus, with all the P320 adoptions they are going to have plenty of demand.

[Manbearspider]

Does anybody know if there's differences in the rail vs non-rail frames that might mechanically make one stronger than the other (like beretta and straight vs slant dust covers)?

Rail/ non rail shouldn't make much of a difference if its done right. The Beretta straight vs slant covers do have mechanicaal differences though. The slanted dustcovers reinforce a specific area on the frame that was prone to cracking on the straight ones when the guns were shot to destruction (low maintenance/high round count testing).

And on the subject of guns built for .40 that end up being overbuilt for 9mm, the PX4 is worth a mention too. I guess you can consider it a gen 2 .40sww gun because of the Cougar heritage, but its definitely a brick shithouse when it comes to round count thanks to it. Both the Ernest Langdon threads have some pretty detailed info on this, but those guns in 9mm definitely qualify as 'overbuilt'.

[MattyD380]

At this point, Sig really should consider discontinuing the classic line instead of cheapening its quality so that it ends up dying a disgraceful death. Keep the LE and Mil contract guns going(with machined parts), but focus on the P320 series which is designed with newer generation technology and was designed to incorporate MIM parts from conception. Plus, with all the P320 adoptions they are going to have plenty of demand.

That's kind of what Smith did with the 3rd gens. At least as of a few years ago, they were still fulfilling LE contracts for 3953s, 3914s and others. I think they still have the tooling in Maine.

I would like to see world-class quality in classic Sigs again, but, I agree--if it's not going to happen... just end it. Honestly though, I think the mystique of the classic Sigs will probably ensure there's some kind of a profit potential there for the foreseeable future--so they'll keep at it. I'm not sure the Smith guns enjoyed that kind of romance in the consumer's eye (I'm not immune; love Sigs). I mean, they're still making the freakin' PPK, right?

Another idea... sell off/spin off that line to a new company who can focus on that line as their core competency. In way, that's kind of how I see Arex. I haven't shot one, but the press/commentary seems to suggest those guns are the real deal.

[MattyD380]

There was a batch or two of 220 MIM extractors, but it had high failure rates due to MIM binder sometimes bunching up in the leg. From what I understand they never attempted it with the rest of the Classic P series.

Gotcha. Thanks.

[KyNate]

The push to get away from the short machined extractor was......*drum roll*......that it was too expensive to machine the slides for it, and too expensive to machine the extractor design. The classic Sig Sauer pistol is a machined part gun.....so keep your grubby MIM hands off it Sig!

MIM is fine if used for the right application and done right. Outsourcing small parts to Brazil was a huge mistake several years ago. When was the last time a quality product came out of Brazil? Sig had some made in India and Taiwan recently too......I've lost track of things now days as they change vendors so often.

At this point, Sig really should consider discontinuing the classic line instead of cheapening its quality so that it ends up dying a disgraceful death. Keep the LE and Mil contract guns going(with machined parts), but focus on the P320 series which is designed with newer generation technology and was designed to incorporate MIM parts from conception. Plus, with all the P320 adoptions they are going to have plenty of demand.

I am not calling your info false but I have never heard of them outsourcing parts the the countries mentioned. Where did you get this information?

[MattyD380]

I am not calling your info false but I have never heard of them outsourcing parts the the countries mentioned. Where did you get this information?

http://www.nevadashooters.com/showthread.php?t=65182

That was from a few years ago. I've heard/read it elsewhere as well. Don't know exactly what other parts they make... but I think it's safe to say it's true.

Also... there's an interesting excerpt from Bruce Gray on the subject, if you scroll down a little. Worth a read.

[KyNate]

http://www.nevadashooters.com/showthread.php?t=65182

That was from a few years ago. I've heard/read it elsewhere as well. Don't know exactly what other parts they make... but I think it's safe to say it's true.

Also... there's an interesting excerpt from Bruce Gray on the subject, if you scroll down a little. Worth a read.

Not that I ever intended to buy a metal framed sig before but I def wont be doing it now that's a disgrace

[spinmove_]

That's kind of what Smith did with the 3rd gens. At least as of a few years ago, they were still fulfilling LE contracts for 3953s, 3914s and others. I think they still have the tooling in Maine.

I would like to see world-class quality in classic Sigs again, but, I agree--if it's not going to happen... just end it. Honestly though, I think the mystique of the classic Sigs will probably ensure there's some kind of a profit potential there for the foreseeable future--so they'll keep at it. I'm not sure the Smith guns enjoyed that kind of romance in the consumer's eye (I'm not immune; love Sigs). I mean, they're still making the freakin' PPK, right?

Another idea... sell off/spin off that line to a new company who can focus on that line as their core competency. In way, that's kind of how I see Arex. I haven't shot one, but the press/commentary seems to suggest those guns are the real deal.

Here's a crazy idea. How about since the P320 is going to be their new mass produced and affordable hotness, why don't they scale back the production of the classic series, go back to machining everything, and I dunno, just charge more for them? I'd rather pay the higher price for a reliable metal pistol that has the pedigree that the Classic P-series has than to pay less for a crappy POS that's going to fail.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Manbearspider]

The slanted dustcovers reinforce a specific area on the frame that was prone to cracking on the straight ones when the guns were shot to destruction (low maintenance/high round count testing)

CORRECTION: The 92 slanted dustcover was introduced to reinforce the frame when shot to destruction on .40, but is not necessary for 9mm, hence why the Army never changed over to the slanted cover.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I am not calling your info false but I have never heard of them outsourcing parts the the countries mentioned. Where did you get this information?

The last SIG factory standard trigger I bought (to replace the thin trigger that came on a P239) was labeled "made in India." I picked up a spare machines locking block for a P226, that was made in Israel.