New IDPA Rules

[That Guy]

I still don't understand the need for a Flagrant procedure.

In the current rules, there are basically two penalties for not following stage procedure - a procedural penalty and FTDR. A proc adds 3s to your time, FTDR 20s. FTDR's are limited to deliberate attempts to cheat. This creates situations where someone may do something that saves them more time than the 3s procedural penalty but claim it was by accident - like shooting a string of fire free style instead of one-handed, for example. This lands the SO in an interesting situation - do you claim the competitor did it on purpose and hit him with the FTDR, or accept that he made a honest mistake and give him a single procedural?

The FP makes more sense now if they've clarified when that is to be handed out better.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

· Not going prone when required

How does this interact with folks with some physical limitations? In my age set, the knees are shot in quite a few. We would take the procedural of 3 sec. to avoid pain that might last for a day or two or even a dangerous situation. I had one buckle once and kind of toppled over behind a barrel. Sure, I kept the gun downrange but that's not a good situation.

It seems silly to penalize the old farts or injured excessively for a game.

Extra rounds - OMG - I did that by accident the other week!

[Jim Watson]

The draft omits the "mobility challenged" option for what the Other Guys calls "Penalty in lieu of performance." You have to be "permanently disabled" with one of a few very serious limiting factors. Wrong.

[DAB]

had a stage i drew up last month, draw, kneel behind a barrel and shoot. one guy had sore knees. well, you can just stand and take 3 seconds. nah, i'll kneel he replied. ok. beep. bang, bang, bang. ow, ow, ow..... hey, it was your choice.

in the end, it's just a game you play with your friends. the outcome doesn't matter that much. take your penalty, save yourself, move on to the next stage.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Maybe I should bring the MRIs of my knees to the gods of IDPA? Yeah, I just go to have fun and shoot. If the emphasis is towards evolving micro-rules for competitors who live for milliseconds - do you lose the appeal of the local matches to just regular folks who want to shoot a carry gun in a more fun way than the square range.

[DAB]

from my short 2-1/2 years of shooting IDPA, it seems to me there are two populations: competitors and hobbyists. i'm a hobbyist. i go to have fun, to spend some time with friends i've made, to see what my level of performance is that day, and to try to actually hit the target but not the no-shoots.

had one stage last week, all seated, 9 targets between 2 and 10 yards (shoot near to far). everyone else is taking body shots, my turn came, i decided to take all head shots. i wanted to know if i could make that shot (i was pretty sure i could, but nothing like having to do it on demand with the timer going and everyone watching, and you only get one chance at it). and i did! down 0 for the stage. did i choose a slower method? yes. but i also learned and proved something to myself. that has value too.

the competitors are all about the score. nothing else matters to them. fine, have your fun. i have other goals.

i'm out there, both match days and my own practice days, to improve my confidence and my proficiency.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I agree. If extreme rule changes and competitor oriented emphasis starts to significantly alter local venues - then they will put themselves out of business. For example, hypothetically, you have to be a member to shoot more than three matches. So if you are a local club and become the three match police - whom do you throw out and sink attendance? Better to use carrots as compared to sticks.

If you want extreme rules for the dudes in sponsored vests - go for it. Giving me a 10 sec penalty for bad knees - just stupid.

[DAB]

IDPA membership is what, 30-40k total presently. and the nationals last year had just under 400 competitors. kind of proves my point. majority of members are hobbyists. they want to have fun. there are no match bumps to master in their future, and that's ok. they don't lay out their year with major matches in mind. they don't get sponsorships to fund their schedule. they just want to have fun and get better. so making the local SO into the 'bad cop' is dumb. keep things safe, but don't hand out 10 second penalties to the nice old guy who used to be able to kick your butt, but now he just wants to hang with his friends.

[Peally]

In the current rules, there are basically two penalties for not following stage procedure - a procedural penalty and FTDR. A proc adds 3s to your time, FTDR 20s. FTDR's are limited to deliberate attempts to cheat. This creates situations where someone may do something that saves them more time than the 3s procedural penalty but claim it was by accident - like shooting a string of fire free style instead of one-handed, for example. This lands the SO in an interesting situation - do you claim the competitor did it on purpose and hit him with the FTDR, or accept that he made a honest mistake and give him a single procedural?

The FP makes more sense now if they've clarified when that is to be handed out better.

Yet another penalty type is not going to fix the mind-reading intent problem. Make procedurals destructive to scoring or don't bother, minor penalties are retarded.

[DAB]

there is already precedent for having rules that apply to tier 2 and up matches that are not enforced at local matches (equip check, chronograph). why not leave FP for tier 2 and up as well. don't assault new shooters with so many procedure/competition based rules. just stick to safety rules.