Travis Haley - .7 second draw to headshot at 10 yds

[HopetonBrown]

The point was that of everything that Gabe said, I particularly liked and agreed with what I reposted and italicized. That was the entire reason I trimmed the post down....for clarity. At least I thought I was being clear in doing that.

I understood it as SN of liking a particular sentence that Gabe wrote, ie "cherrypicking" it from the rest of his comment.

How many USPSA/gamers here or otherwise attend non-gaming classes? I'm sure a few do a "defensive" CCW course here or there, but actual no bullshit mindset driven tactical classes? I'm willing to bet less than most believe.

I don't know what a "no bullshit mindset driven tactical class" is, but the last two shooting classes I took were Defoor and Stoeger. There was another guy in the Stoeger class who was also at Defoor, and in the Stoeger class there was a local LE instructor who I met in a Pannone class. There was a another local LE guy in the Stoeger class. My last IDPA classifier had an LE instructor from one of the top 10 highest crime rate cities in the country.

[Sal Picante]

Are you talking about specific instructors or specific topics?

CQB for LE or home defense for non-LE, combatives of some sort which allow implementation of blade and hand to hand force. FoF with sims that focuses on real life scenarios (bonus of it stems from actual events). Etc

Specific instructors and curriculum.

[Clusterfrack]

I'd love to hear from some of our LEOs who are USPSA Masters or GMs...

[SouthNarc]

You've posted at me by not quoting me before

I'm not sure exactly what that means but it sounds like you're accusing me of slighting you on some previous occasion?

....which is what I thought you were doing here. If this was not the case here then disregard what I posted in response.

Just so we're clear and unambiguous my post had nothing to do with you.

Do you understand?

[Gray222]

Specific instructors and curriculum.

That's a long list which I don't have time to go through and post, and since I have not trained with everyone in the industry it'll be shorter than expected. My previous post is sufficient in this context.

I'd love to hear from some of our LEOs who are USPSA Masters or GMs...

I've stated before that "tactical guys" that did "tactical stuff" for years and then start gaming is not some catchall win condition for this conversation. The guys who have been doing law enforcement and have practical/tactical experience have a very huge step up on the average gamer who does not. Most I have spoken with on this subject enjoy shooting and competing is a way for them to get better at shooting, they have a very finite foundation which they default to that is not gaming based.

[Gray222]

I'm not sure exactly what that means but it sounds like you're accusing me of slighting you on some previous occasion?




Just so we're clear and unambiguous my post had nothing to do with you.

Do you understand?

I am, and you have. But I won't rehash.

We are clear now, thanks for taking the time to clarify.

[Clusterfrack]

Deleted

[SouthNarc]

I am, and you have. But I won't rehash.

We are clear now, thanks for taking the time to clarify.

Yeah....

I'm going to bow out on that one. Feel free to put me ignore and I'll do the same.

[Clusterfrack]

I've stated before that "tactical guys" that did "tactical stuff" for years and then start gaming is not some catchall win condition for this conversation. The guys who have been doing law enforcement and have practical/tactical experience have a very huge step up on the average gamer who does not. Most I have spoken with on this subject enjoy shooting and competing is a way for them to get better at shooting, they have a very finite foundation which they default to that is not gaming based.

I've seen some major butthurt occur when experienced tactical folks get their asses handed to them in competition, and they often made statements like the one you made above. But, dude, I don't think anyone is trying to say that gamers with no tactical training are better at tactical use of firearms than LEOs or other experienced folks. For me the takeaway here is that there can be a synergy between tactical and competition activities, and tactical folks often gain a lot from the competition side, just like competition shooters need serious tactical training.

[JAD]

Just a small note from way outside the Venn -- when people who are discussing this topic say that the other side doesn't like their side because they're not good at it, it really, really lowers the quality of debate. For me anyway.

I say that because already in this thread two people who I really enjoy and usually agree with have done it.