Sgt Daniel Perry charged in death of Garrett Foster

[camel]

It all depends on the situation. It could be that traffic is bumper to bumper as it is in most cities, and you aren't going to be to drive through. What then?
Maybe the protest is rowdy, but isn't violent yet- trying to drive through them will probably make it so.
Maybe one is far enough away from the mob to bail out of the car, walk off & blend in.
And it could very well be that the best tactic in those circumstance is to push through with the car, or even go to guns.

ETA: in any case, the tactic of sitting and letting the mob pass shouldn't automatically be dismissed if circumstances allow.

This would be a good subject for a separate thread.

That’s a whole lot of situational awareness to calmly sit depending. But it can be a good option

[shane45]

I watched with keen interest when all these flash protests were happening so i could form awareness and a plan should i encounter one in my area. The thing i didnt see discussed here was how these things unfolded. What i observed, and that included this case, was the way the "protesters" were hunting for any car, or motorcycle, violating their line and would absolutely pack descend on the vehicle that dared! An extremely agressive and focused behavior. I watched many cases where firearms were absolutely leveled at the vehicle occupants caught up in the protest. I certainly got the impression that severe intimidation was a common tactic being used.

[0ddl0t]

Gov Abbott has pardoned Perry and fully restored his right to own firearms.

Texas has one of the strongest ‘Stand Your Ground’ laws of self-defense that cannot be nullified by a jury or a progressive District Attorney. I thank the Board for its thorough investigation, and I approve their pardon recommendation

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/16/us/da...ion/index.html

[Sero Sed Serio]

Gov Abbott has pardoned Perry and fully restored his right to own firearms.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/16/us/da...ion/index.html

I believe, that from a legal perspective, this is the right outcome in this case. From a personal perspective, I question whether Perry was a true innocent who stumbled into a situation, or whether he was a provocateur who drove into a protest to get a reaction, and got one. Either way, he had more legal right to occupy that square foot of pavement than Foster, and responded appropriately to a rifle being pointed into his window, which Foster's body language in this photograph suggests:

Attachment 118595

I did not realize until I saw this story today that Perry did not testify in his own defense. While it is not uncommon for a defendant not to take the stand, this is often an effort to keep prejudicial information from being introduced, with the most common situation being a defendant's prior convictions. My personal instinct, which I freely admit may differ from other attorneys, is that the jury wants to hear from the defendant, particularly when there is a justification defense such as self-defense. My default instinct in a self-defense case is to have the defendant testify, unless there is something damning that will come out as a result, or if I believe my client will come across negatively on the stand based on his/her demeanor. Given that Perry did not have priors that would "dirty him up," it makes me wonder if there is something about his demeanor that led to this, or whether he had an attorney with a differing view than me--that you should never put your client on the stand unless you have to.

I do strongly believe that this prosecution was politically motivated, and that if it had either happened in a different TX jurisdiction, or if Foster had been a right-leaning protestor shot by someone left-leaning, it never would have been charged (much in the way that the Dolloff/Keltner shooting in Denver, which is often characterized as gun vs. pepper spray, but when you flip through the series of extremely-HD photos of the incident, I read as Dolloff gets open-palm slapped, immediately drops into a classic 4-point draw stroke, and Keltner, who has stepped back, only flings up the pepper spray at the last second as the shot is being fired):

Attachment 118597
Attachment 118598
Attachment 118599
Attachment 118600
Attachment 118601
Attachment 118602
Attachment 118603
Attachment 118604
Attachment 118605
Attachment 118606

These two cases were my big surprises in the Class of 2020 Protest Shootings, where in my opinion Dolloff was unjustified, and Foster was justified.

My other big question mark for that time period was Nikolas Hernandez in Seattle, who intentionally drove into a protest in Seattle, and yet I believe was justified in his shooting when a crowd blocked his vehicle with a metal barrier, and the guy who got shot was actively entering Hernandez's vehicle at the time of the shooting:

Attachment 118608
Attachment 118609
Attachment 118610
Attachment 118611

This was quietly pled down by the King County Prosecutor's Office, who settled on a Reckless Driving plea, and acknowledged that they did not think they could overcome a self-defense argument:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...esters-shot-1/

Based on all of this, I still believe that avoidance and escape are the preferred options if available. I also continue to believe that crowds blocking traffic continue to be a very difficult tactical nut to crack once you find yourself in that situation, but that stopping tends to open up extremely bad outcomes, and that being confronted with firearms or having the vehicle breached will often, from a purely legal perspective justify a deadly force response; however, for good or bad depending on jurisdiction, politics seem to play a major factor in how deadly force is viewed in these situations.

NOTE: When I previewed this post, the attachments were inline, but when the post came up they are all attachments. Apologies--I think they are much more useful as inline pics vs. having to click on them.

[LittleLebowski]

Gov Abbott has pardoned Perry and fully restored his right to own firearms.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/16/us/da...ion/index.html

It’s about time.

[LittleLebowski]

I believe, that from a legal perspective, this is the right outcome in this case. From a personal perspective, I question whether Perry was a true innocent who stumbled into a situation, or whether he was a provocateur who drove into a protest to get a reaction, and got one. Either way, he had more legal right to occupy that square foot of pavement than Foster, and responded appropriately to a rifle being pointed into his window, which Foster's body language in this photograph suggests:

Attachment 118595

I did not realize until I saw this story today that Perry did not testify in his own defense. While it is not uncommon for a defendant not to take the stand, this is often an effort to keep prejudicial information from being introduced, with the most common situation being a defendant's prior convictions. My personal instinct, which I freely admit may differ from other attorneys, is that the jury wants to hear from the defendant, particularly when there is a justification defense such as self-defense. My default instinct in a self-defense case is to have the defendant testify, unless there is something damning that will come out as a result, or if I believe my client will come across negatively on the stand based on his/her demeanor. Given that Perry did not have priors that would "dirty him up," it makes me wonder if there is something about his demeanor that led to this, or whether he had an attorney with a differing view than me--that you should never put your client on the stand unless you have to.

I do strongly believe that this prosecution was politically motivated, and that if it had either happened in a different TX jurisdiction, or if Foster had been a right-leaning protestor shot by someone left-leaning, it never would have been charged (much in the way that the Dolloff/Keltner shooting in Denver, which is often characterized as gun vs. pepper spray, but when you flip through the series of extremely-HD photos of the incident, I read as Dolloff gets open-palm slapped, immediately drops into a classic 4-point draw stroke, and Keltner, who has stepped back, only flings up the pepper spray at the last second as the shot is being fired):

Attachment 118597
Attachment 118598
Attachment 118599
Attachment 118600
Attachment 118601
Attachment 118602
Attachment 118603
Attachment 118604
Attachment 118605
Attachment 118606

These two cases were my big surprises in the Class of 2020 Protest Shootings, where in my opinion Dolloff was unjustified, and Foster was justified.

My other big question mark for that time period was Nikolas Hernandez in Seattle, who intentionally drove into a protest in Seattle, and yet I believe was justified in his shooting when a crowd blocked his vehicle with a metal barrier, and the guy who got shot was actively entering Hernandez's vehicle at the time of the shooting:

Attachment 118608
Attachment 118609
Attachment 118610
Attachment 118611

This was quietly pled down by the King County Prosecutor's Office, who settled on a Reckless Driving plea, and acknowledged that they did not think they could overcome a self-defense argument:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...esters-shot-1/

Based on all of this, I still believe that avoidance and escape are the preferred options if available. I also continue to believe that crowds blocking traffic continue to be a very difficult tactical nut to crack once you find yourself in that situation, but that stopping tends to open up extremely bad outcomes, and that being confronted with firearms or having the vehicle breached will often, from a purely legal perspective justify a deadly force response; however, for good or bad depending on jurisdiction, politics seem to play a major factor in how deadly force is viewed in these situations.

The Dolloff/Keltner shooting was straight murder. Another travesty of justice.

[WDR]

The Dolloff/Keltner shooting was straight murder. Another travesty of justice.

I was shocked at the outcome on that one. The amount of photographic evidence and video of that interaction was amazing. I still think the deceased was baited into engaging the "security guard" ... the reporter he was with was quite the agitator, from what I remember.

[Clusterfrack]

Want to try again on those images? Un-embedded attachments get deleted after a period in vBulletin.

I believe, that from a legal perspective, this is the right outcome in this case. From a personal perspective, I question whether Perry was a true innocent who stumbled into a situation, or whether he was a provocateur who drove into a protest to get a reaction, and got one. Either way, he had more legal right to occupy that square foot of pavement than Foster, and responded appropriately to a rifle being pointed into his window, which Foster's body language in this photograph suggests:

Attachment 118595

I did not realize until I saw this story today that Perry did not testify in his own defense. While it is not uncommon for a defendant not to take the stand, this is often an effort to keep prejudicial information from being introduced, with the most common situation being a defendant's prior convictions. My personal instinct, which I freely admit may differ from other attorneys, is that the jury wants to hear from the defendant, particularly when there is a justification defense such as self-defense. My default instinct in a self-defense case is to have the defendant testify, unless there is something damning that will come out as a result, or if I believe my client will come across negatively on the stand based on his/her demeanor. Given that Perry did not have priors that would "dirty him up," it makes me wonder if there is something about his demeanor that led to this, or whether he had an attorney with a differing view than me--that you should never put your client on the stand unless you have to.

I do strongly believe that this prosecution was politically motivated, and that if it had either happened in a different TX jurisdiction, or if Foster had been a right-leaning protestor shot by someone left-leaning, it never would have been charged (much in the way that the Dolloff/Keltner shooting in Denver, which is often characterized as gun vs. pepper spray, but when you flip through the series of extremely-HD photos of the incident, I read as Dolloff gets open-palm slapped, immediately drops into a classic 4-point draw stroke, and Keltner, who has stepped back, only flings up the pepper spray at the last second as the shot is being fired):

Attachment 118597
Attachment 118598
Attachment 118599
Attachment 118600
Attachment 118601
Attachment 118602
Attachment 118603
Attachment 118604
Attachment 118605
Attachment 118606

These two cases were my big surprises in the Class of 2020 Protest Shootings, where in my opinion Dolloff was unjustified, and Foster was justified.

My other big question mark for that time period was Nikolas Hernandez in Seattle, who intentionally drove into a protest in Seattle, and yet I believe was justified in his shooting when a crowd blocked his vehicle with a metal barrier, and the guy who got shot was actively entering Hernandez's vehicle at the time of the shooting:

Attachment 118608
Attachment 118609
Attachment 118610
Attachment 118611

This was quietly pled down by the King County Prosecutor's Office, who settled on a Reckless Driving plea, and acknowledged that they did not think they could overcome a self-defense argument:

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...esters-shot-1/

Based on all of this, I still believe that avoidance and escape are the preferred options if available. I also continue to believe that crowds blocking traffic continue to be a very difficult tactical nut to crack once you find yourself in that situation, but that stopping tends to open up extremely bad outcomes, and that being confronted with firearms or having the vehicle breached will often, from a purely legal perspective justify a deadly force response; however, for good or bad depending on jurisdiction, politics seem to play a major factor in how deadly force is viewed in these situations.

NOTE: When I previewed this post, the attachments were inline, but when the post came up they are all attachments. Apologies--I think they are much more useful as inline pics vs. having to click on them.

[Sero Sed Serio]

Want to try again on those images? Un-embedded attachments get deleted after a period in vBulletin.

I’ll try again after work. When I previewed the post, they all showed as inline attachments, but when I clicked reply they posted as attachments. I may try breaking them into several posts to see if that fixes the issue.

[HCM]

It’s about time.

Unfortunately, it took the time necessary. Unlike another republican politician who thinks executive power is a "magic wand" Governor Abbott made sure this was done properly and would not be "un done." Which is the best thing for Sgt. Perry in the long run.