Since most home defense carbines are kept condition three, I think downloading is very relevant, as getting the AR charged quickly and reliably is easier with a magazine that has more room.
Since most home defense carbines are kept condition three, I think downloading is very relevant, as getting the AR charged quickly and reliably is easier with a magazine that has more room.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
seems to me that makes it even *less* relevant, since if your mag requires being hammered in with a mallet to seat on a closed bolt you can do that in the stress-free environment of preparing the gun for storage.Originally Posted by GJM
Unless the plan is to grab gun, pull mag to check for BBs, re-insert mag on closed bolt, run CH, and get to fightin'.
But even if that is so, I haven't found that ammo type makes a significant difference in that variable. If I can't seat a mag with 30 rounds of Wolf without a mallet, I haven't found that my ninja-load is any easier.
It also just always devolves into 22 minute videos re-hashing things because someone things they're going to fix the internet with their CV and ensuing discussion.
Maybe I've been spoiled, since I got into AR's during the current golden years and have only bought known quality rifles, mags and ammo mostly on the recommendation of members here. I exclusively run gen m3 PMAGS in 20/30/40, always loaded to full capacity, and have never had a mag related failure. Every mag I've ever bought has easily seated at full capacity onto a closed bolt into every rifle I've owned.
Assuming a new, unfired by me rifle;
After I've verified function with various factory .223 & 5.56 loads in various dedicated range mags and achieved my initial zero @ 100yds.
I'll go about zeroing my self defense and/or hunting load. Personally, I'm fine with total ~200rds fired during zero process, near & far distances and a few other basic drills. Only using proven, low round count mags that will be dedicated to that lot of ammo and rifle. Assuming all goes well, I consider myself good to go.
Yours and MistWolf’s are good points. I don’t like putting a defense weapon up dirty and almost never do, but I can create this situation as as a test.
This idea is odd to me. My defensive weapons are always dirty. I get more nervous about something that's been stripped, cleaned, and put back together (perhaps incorrectly) than I do a hundred rounds worth of ammo "dirt."
Food Court Apprentice
Semper Paratus certified AR15 armorer
i agree to a point that stripping down a gun that you know worked an hour ago and the re-assembling it does not mean that you now have a gun that is still known to function.
I'd always rather have two of anything I think I might "need".
Fire one for function and zero, re-lube at most, put away, check from time to time, fire for function check even less. If you have the facilities and time and such, giving the gun a cleaning and then firing a few rounds for a function check isn't bad.
Fire the other for training, matches, etc. etc. Might get cleaned, might not. consequences of it not going "bang" are pretty insignificant.
True “home defense” test.
1) degrease the gun to simulate the lube drying up over time
2) empty the lint trap in your dryer
3) pop rear take down pin, remove BCG
4) insert lint into interior of upper and lower receiver to simulate “dust bunnies”
5) reinstall BCG
6) shoot 30 round mag of the defensive ammo of your choice
Ok. Well, we differ here. I have a lot of experience with my handguns that suggests starting off clean is no detriment to proper function. I have also run them to fairly high round counts without cleaning to verify they work dirty. Understanding firearms aren’t cars, the idea that they’d not function when clean and properly reassembled is foreign to me and thus far not borne out in my experience, any more than it has been in race cars. I understand others draw different conclusions.
But I also think it’s important to have a clearly unfired weapon in a defensive situation, in case there is any allegation of rounds fired if i have not in fact fired any. This was a conclusion I had reached a while ago, before coming here, but I’ve seen a few threads here discussing the same concerns. I understand others draw different conclusions.
In case it isn’t clear, I too believe in multiple copies of a weapon where feasible. I have two identical LTT’s, one which gets used for coolfire, one which is used for matches, and then an identically set up 92C for carry. The latter is always clean. On AR’s this isn’t feasible for me, but I will have two, the 18” with an LPVO and the carbine. The latter will almost always be kept clean.
Damn people are all over the place on this. I'm trying to distill this down into some kind of best practice.
Seems there are kind of two schools of thought:
School A:
1) Take the CLEAN gun to the range
2) Put ~5-10x magazines (assuming 30-rounders) through the gun (150-300 rounds)
3) Take magazines intended for defensive use and load a single round in each of them and fire to confirm lock back function
4) Fire at least 2x magazines of defensive ammo through the gun. One, slowfire, at varying distances to confirm zero, offset, holdover, etc. One rapid fire at relatively close distance (25y) to confirm function
5) Lube
6) Load with defensive ammo
School B:
1) Take new gun to the range and fire 150-300 rounds of ammo through it
2) Take magazines for defensive use and confirm lockback.
3) Shoot a mag of defensive ammo to confirm it feeds properly and check zero.
4) Lube
5) Load with defensive ammo
6) Return to the range at later date, with cold, dirty, gun - rapidly fire magazine of defensive ammo, simultaneously confirming function in a dirty, cold, gun and rechecking your zero.
___
Everyone's consensus seems to be after a few hundred rounds of quality practice ammo and a few to half-dozen mags of defensive ammo, the gun will either be reliable with the chosen load or not, yes?
I think we may be over thinking the whole subject. In a good, basic AR, it only takes a few rounds to determine if the ammo is gonna work or not. By good, basic AR, I mean something like a Colt 6920 with the right gas port, buffer & springs. When testing quality ammo of various bullet weights, I knew in 5 rounds or less if it would function reliably in my Colt. (They all did, from Federal XM193 to Black Hills 77 gr SMK.) The rest of the 40 to 60 rounds were spent sighting in, shooting groups and because I like to shoot. Good ammo works.
I don't think it's necessary to test a good, basic AR in a dirty condition (because we already know they work dirty if lubed). But if worried about how an AR runs dirty, i think testing it cold and dirty is more telling than hot and dirty.
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