Why the P30

[Bodhi]

HK is geared toward large military and government agency contracts, often that come out of Europe. Where do you think the trigger weight, length and reset length come from. The Germans are notorious for pre use specs on trigger stuff. In particular, that long reset is theirs. So, HK is listening to their customers, just not the ones we want. If.....there was something like an HK version of the Langdon PX4CC, I would be carrying it. I have no idea if the PX4CC is a business success for Beretta versus the rest of their line, but numbers drive the decision train at gun companies not what we’ll trained and educated shooters want. A lot of car analogy’s here. I was at Ford getting service the other day. The price between the Raptor and a decent F150 was double. What sells more? Like a TON more? Then, compared to the factory built Raptor, how many of the plain jams F150’s will be home or shop personalized in a way that spurns an entire market of its own.
To me the HUGE benefit of the HK’s is I get their level of QC and parts quality and can then get a trigger done for me to maximize the accuracy of their barrels and reliability of the their magazines and internals.

I agree with that. And by no means am I trying to piss on them. Some get real touchy when you critique Heckler and Koch, and I’m not implying you do. My opinion is an honest eval with a few decades behind me shooting lots of platforms. I fully understand the company and why and have for decades. But the P30 DA is horrible. And I don’t think it’s worth hundreds more than a Glock. To use your own analogy, why even buy the F150 when a Canyon, Ridgeline, Frontier, etc, is all you need? HK makes fantastic firearms but like I said...you are talking about modding it to make it what you need. The PX4 is like that from the onset, maybe still even better, from a trigger perspective. So it has to be apples to apples not apples to oranges. A PX4 trigger worked over is simply magnificent. I have a lot of respect from EL. He’s running the shit out of them. I just happen to need a large trigger guard and paddles for glove work. Way easier to use with a gloved hand.

[Doc_Glock]

I am far from an expert, but the concerns about the P30l trigger seem overblown. I prefer it to Berettas. I don’t know if it is where it breaks or what, but that front sight does not move at all for me on DA pulls. It is long and smooth, just a little heavy with a steady build to an almost imperceptible break.

[Dagga Boy]

Bodhi, I agree on the triggers. I wish there was a factory gun built for shooters and not as Mil/LE issue Guns. Trust me, but a 20 pound Beretta military hammer spring in a PX4 and that trigger wouldn’t be very good. Also, note any decent trigger in many of these guns are the “competition” triggers that are the gun company lawyers words for not our problem.
If we could start separating the “business” “marketing”, and “legal” inputs from gun companies, we could have some great factory guns....until it went out of business.

[JodyH]

Some get real touchy when you critique Heckler and Koch,

The only time I correct critiques of H&K is when people don't understand why H&K thinks they suck or why H&K hates them.
You either "get" H&K's design philosophy or you don't... and in typical German engineer fashion, they don't care whether you get it or not.

[Bodhi]

The only time I correct critiques of H&K is when people don't understand why H&K thinks they suck or why H&K hates them.
You either "get" H&K's design philosophy or you don't... and in typical German engineer fashion, they don't care whether you get it or not.

Oh I agree with you. .mil and contracts supersede all. As I said to DB prior, I know all about it. But you also need to keep in mind their financial position. If said company does the same thing over and over again, and can’t get out of the red, maybe change your “philosophy” a little bit. They are starting to, with the Veeps. Kind of a day late and a dollar short but at least they are finally sitting at the table. Civvie market, work on it. Maybe just get your trigger at the table with a 92, a Sig P series, a PX4, what have you, for your next TDA because I am a fan, just a critical one when spending this money. No company is above critique, especially from those who spend money with them. I know their philosophy and know their financial position. Ask other firearm manufacturers how they like the US market. They ain’t too none happy today but in general. If they can build such an outstanding striker trigger they can make an outstanding TDA. For now I have to take care of that myself, and I look forward to picking my new P30’s next weekend from the gunny.

[JodyH]

But you also need to keep in mind their financial position. If said company does the same thing over and over again, and can’t get out of the red,

Their financial position has very little to do with their product engineering.
It's about 50% their last CEO basically using corporate funds as his personal piggy bank and 50% German arms export laws hosing them.

The "sophisticated" American consumer isn't even a rounding error on their financial statements (and never will be).
We're way behind Gov/Mil/LE, Rainbow Six fans, Airsofters, dirt clod shooters, Instagram Picassos and other assorted Fanbois.
Spend 10 minutes on HKPro and you'll see that more American H&K owners worry about how to fill in the engraving with Crayon than how to improve their shooting performance.

[MSparks909]

Spend 10 minutes on HKPro and you'll see that more American H&K owners worry about how to fill in the engraving with Crayon than how to improve their shooting performance.

Tangent but that isn’t only limited to HKPro...browse around any brand centric gun forum and you will be immersed in derp. It’s almost overwhelming sometimes. PF is literally the only gun forum I bother with anymore.

Back to the P30...

[willie]

Their financial position has very little to do with their product engineering.
It's about 50% their last CEO basically using corporate funds as his personal piggy bank and 50% German arms export laws hosing them.

The "sophisticated" American consumer isn't even a rounding error on their financial statements (and never will be).
We're way behind Gov/Mil/LE, Rainbow Six fans, Airsofters, dirt clod shooters, Instagram Picassos and other assorted Fanbois.
Spend 10 minutes on HKPro and you'll see that more American H&K owners worry about how to fill in the engraving with Crayon than how to improve their shooting performance.

Hey I found my category--dirt clod shooter. Now, can you recommend the best Crayon. I wanna do it right.

[CDFIII]

Hypothetically speaking if a guy has hands big enough to run a P30s cocked and locked and reliably work the safety on and off every time does anyone see an issue running the gun this way?
I put sights on a friends P30Ls this morning and took it out for a run at the range. This guy will probably shoot this gun 2-3 times a year running a total of maybe 300rds. through it if he is lucky. Not much of shooter but a truly good friend. So I decided to give his P30Ls a break in for him and I wanted to actually shoot with these sights before the pistol was locked away from the light of day.
So I ran around 400rds. of various brands and weights from the gun to test function. I ran it all but maybe 50rds. in single action using the safety 1911 style. I had better times running drills and it actually felt pretty good. No issues working the safety from concealed draws or snicking it back on when needed. I rode it like I do on 1911's and it seemed to work for me just fine. After shooting 400rds. or so I noticed 0 hotspots on my thumb and all seemed fine.
I have a couple of P30l guns in V3 and I shoot them just fine. DA has been tweaked just like most others do here with light FPB and nickel sear spring... But Damn it running the P30Ls in cocked and locked fashion was just down right fun to shoot. I have to give his gun back and after putting some sights on it I am really thinking about duplicating it or possibly just stealing his. Soooo..Anyone see any issues running the gun in this fashion?

[JodyH]

Hypothetically speaking if a guy has hands big enough to run a P30s cocked and locked and reliably work the safety on and off every time does anyone see an issue running the gun this way?

The only issue I've had running H&K's that way is if you ride the safety hard like I do, you can inadvertently de-cock the pistol under recoil.
When I did the cocked and locked thing with H&K's I always converted them to the safety only, no de-cock variant.
Not sure if this applies to the P30 as i've only had them in LEM.