2012-13 PTC Test Guns - Springfield 9mm 1911

[ToddG]

Above questions have been addressed in my training journal.

[Gary1911A1]

Todd, I understand why you tested this 1911 in 9MM. I took a course from Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers and my hands were hurting after the course after shooting my 1911 in .45ACP. Would you care to comment on how many of the 8 malfunctions were 100% related to using 9MM magazines? I still prefer the 1911, but noticed I was the only one shooting a 1911 in a CQB Course I took last month. I'm wondering if it's time for a change, but I don't shoot any polymer pistol as well except for perhaps a Walther PPQ I purchased recently.

[dkangel]

In a follow up to Gary's prior question. Something just isn't sitting right with me about those 3 stoppages. I know you did a detailed strip prior to shooting it and it is a very odd coincidence that immediately after it did this. I would normally agree that a detailed strip clean shouldn't cause it but I cannot rule out that possiblility because I am not real big on coincidences and I remember you had an issue getting something back in place. If this was the cause (not saying it is) a few rounds could likely have settled it back in. Although I cannot be sure - it is some food for thought.

[farscott]

Todd,

May I ask if you have considered or are willing to try the nine-round 9x19 magazines in the test guns? The extra space available in the magazine would mean less spring compression, more room for the follower, and/or allow a stronger spring. I wonder if the tenth round requires the magazine spring to just compress too much, causing excessive fatigue and a loss of spring force as the loading/unloading cycles increment.

BTW, I have learned quite a bit of how to shoot the 1911 due to this test. Leaning away from the magazine carrier when grasping the magazine and focusing on the mag well during the reload are both something I am working on in my own practice. Thanks.

[kmartphoto]

In a follow up to Gary's prior question. Something just isn't sitting right with me about those 3 stoppages. I know you did a detailed strip prior to shooting it and it is a very odd coincidence that immediately after it did this. I would normally agree that a detailed strip clean shouldn't cause it but I cannot rule out that possiblility because I am not real big on coincidences and I remember you had an issue getting something back in place. If this was the cause (not saying it is) a few rounds could likely have settled it back in. Although I cannot be sure - it is some food for thought.

+1

Also I know you said you sent one of the guns or both to have extractors fit for it. Did you swap extractors at some point and I missed it?

[kmartphoto]

Leaning away from the magazine carrier when grasping the magazine and focusing on the mag well during the reload are both something I am working on in my own practice. Thanks.

Do tupperware shooters not do this for some reason? Seems automatic to me but wtf do I know.

[dkangel]

Todd,

May I ask if you have considered or are willing to try the nine-round 9x19 magazines in the test guns? The extra space available in the magazine would mean less spring compression, more room for the follower, and/or allow a stronger spring. I wonder if the tenth round requires the magazine spring to just compress too much, causing excessive fatigue and a loss of spring force as the loading/unloading cycles increment.

BTW, I have learned quite a bit of how to shoot the 1911 due to this test. Leaning away from the magazine carrier when grasping the magazine and focusing on the mag well during the reload are both something I am working on in my own practice. Thanks.

+1

Thats a fair point you bring up. The pistol does ship with 9 round magazines and it is likely the gun was tuned for it.

[ToddG]

Would you care to comment on how many of the 8 malfunctions were 100% related to using 9MM magazines?

All eight occurred with 9mm magazines. Perhaps I'm not understanding the question?

In a follow up to Gary's prior question. Something just isn't sitting right with me about those 3 stoppages. I know you did a detailed strip prior to shooting...

That was the first thing I asked Jason, could I have put the gun back together in a way that caused these stoppages. Given that the gun fired about 2,000 rounds afterwards with no additional stoppages, the answer is no. To believe otherwise, you'd have to believe the gun can be assembled in such a way that it fits together properly, fails to function 20% of the time for 15 rounds, and then somehow rights itself and never bobbles again.

May I ask if you have considered or are willing to try the nine-round 9x19 magazines in the test guns? The extra space available in the magazine would mean less spring compression, more room for the follower, and/or allow a stronger spring. I wonder if the tenth round requires the magazine spring to just compress too much, causing excessive fatigue and a loss of spring force as the loading/unloading cycles increment.

blr or others may be able to answer that.

As for running 9rd mags, that would be the straw that broke the camel's back. I feel like I've compromised as far as I'm willing. If I can't get at least some of the $1,000 in 10rd mags to work, I'm out.

BTW, I have learned quite a bit of how to shoot the 1911 due to this test. Leaning away from the magazine carrier when grasping the magazine and focusing on the mag well during the reload are both something I am working on in my own practice. Thanks.

Neither of those are 1911-specific.

Also I know you said you sent one of the guns or both to have extractors fit for it. Did you swap extractors at some point and I missed it?

Still has the original (retuned by SACS ~6k rounds ago) extractor in it.

[Jim Watson]

My recommendation, also.
Not that the gun was "tuned" for 9 shot magazines but that the gun and magazines were designed as an assembly for 9 shots.
You can get a pretty good 8 shot .45 magazine now (the early ones were dreadful), but I don't think all the bugs are out of the 10 shot 9mms.
I don't know if you can GET all the bugs out of a 10 shot 9mm single column magazine, the round is much more tapered than a .45.

A guy here had a brand K that was not much use... until he tried the specific 9 shot magazines I recommended. He had no further difficulty as long as he shot that gun.

[Slavex]

I sent Todd an email with pics of the mags a friend of mine uses, 10 Cobramags, made by Tripp. Beauty mags, with real metal followers. in 6400 rounds he's had zero feed or slide lock back issues in his 9mm Spartan. Looking at the mags Todd is using, or at least pics I've been able to find, my opinion is the Tripp ones look to be much better in terms of design and construction. Of course to now go out and buy another $500 worth of mags would probably make Todd curl up in the corner drooling and speaking in tongues.