Holstered SigSauer 320 Discharges

[Tokarev]

I think the main lesson learned was that there was an inherent (and known by the manufacturer) flaw in the gun's safety system/mechanisms, which leads to the follow on queries as to what else was or was not thoroughly tested in that platform, and what was the testing protocol with the individual components and the complete gun in conjunction with and after the upgrades.

I can visualize several causal factors with the incident-both mechanical and human. I too wait with interest the results of the investigation.

Best, Jon

Rumor is SIG was aware of the issue based on military/government testing and had plans to make a rolling change to the 320 line. What they were going to do with all the "legacy" 320s I don't know.

Doesn't SIG still maintain to this day that the old 320 passes all SAAMI drop tests? Sounds like we need new SAAMI drop tests.

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[JonInWA]

Rumor is SIG was aware of the issue based on military/government testing and had plans to make a rolling change to the 320 line. What they were going to do with all the "legacy" 320s I don't know.

Doesn't SIG still maintain to this day that the old 320 passes all SAAMI drop tests? Sounds like we need new SAAMI drop tests.

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Or a manufacturer with a sense of integrity and responsibility to the community utilizing their products, not just to their shareholders/owners/management.

Best, Jon

[Clusterfrack]

Was that with the pistol landing at that particular angle with the grip tang and rear of slide hitting the floor at the same time or did the gun fire from multiple angles?

As I understand it, the pre-upgrade guns fired due to the inertia of the trigger and the slide being held into battery from the angle of impact. The impact itself wasn't the problem. It was a combination of angle and impact.

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It had to be exactly right for it to AD for me. The beavertail and slide had to hit simultaneously.

[358156hp]

It had to be exactly right for it to AD for me. The beavertail and slide had to hit simultaneously.

As in "my pistol fell out of my holster while practicing my Spetnaz backflip axe throw".
Obligatory demonstration video:


I really need to at least try being more serious. I was happy with my P320 the way I had it originally, with the Apex straight trigger. If it weren't for the spectre of negligent liability, I would not have sent it in for the "update". Now, over a year later, I'm pissed at SIG for being a bunch of stupid asses who value profit over customer satisfaction.

[farscott]

Rumor is SIG was aware of the issue based on military/government testing and had plans to make a rolling change to the 320 line. What they were going to do with all the "legacy" 320s I don't know.

Doesn't SIG still maintain to this day that the old 320 passes all SAAMI drop tests? Sounds like we need new SAAMI drop tests.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

One of the things that struck me about the P320 drop test issues was the statement that the P320 was safe because it passed industry-standard safety tests. When I worked for an appliance manufacturer, we had frequent discussions on safety and the role of standards. A very consistent theme was that passing industry-standard and/or national-standards testing was not sufficient to move a product forward if a failure occurred that could reasonably be expected to occur in the field. The latter part of the statement is there to eliminate a need for changes caused by, for example, spinning a laundry machine basket at 5000 rpm when the factory motor could never exceed 1500 rpm even with all of the safeties defeated and bypassed.

Once a field-feasible failure mode was identified that current standards did not address, two things happened: 1) A new test to address the failure mode was developed, and 2) the failure mode and new test was communicated to all of the competition. When it came down to safety, there was no competition and any and all IP addressing the issue was freely licensed. The firearms industry would do well to follow the same practices.

[feudist]

Did SIG perhaps count on military pistols being carried condition 3 by most users most of the time? Perhaps they did a little back of the napkin cost-benefit figgerin'.

[Clusterfrack]

@farscott nailed it. These are standard engineering practices, but sometimes companies cut corners and don’t consider the level of risk in the Effects part of FMEA. Like Toyota and the deaths from runaway Priuses—and Sig. Also, I suspect that a lot of firearms engineers aren’t as smart as they think they are.

[GJM]

I think the main lesson learned was that there was an inherent (and known by the manufacturer) flaw in the gun's safety system/mechanisms, which leads to the follow on queries as to what else was or was not thoroughly tested in that platform, and what was the testing protocol with the individual components and the complete gun in conjunction with and after the upgrades.

I can visualize several causal factors with the incident-both mechanical and human. I too wait with interest the results of the investigation.

Best, Jon

You could substitute “Boeing” and “737 Max,” and make the same statement.

[Archer1440]

It’s likely the trigger was somehow pulled but the idea of P320s “just going off” is not exactly outside the realm of possibility.

People said the same thing the first few times the original design P320s went off when dropped, including this one which went off while holstered.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_b...kwQ243TWs/view

Dropped in a holster isn't the same thing as what's being discussed here, and you know it.

[JHC]

Dropped in a holster isn't the same thing as what's being discussed here, and you know it.

We don't really know what's being discussed here. Those are the best kind.

We don't know if he fingered the gun or stumbled against the wall or what happened.