HK P30 - Revisited

[StraitR]

I'm normally very longwinded, so I'll do my absolute best to make this short. I've carried a glock variant for a decade, AIWB for the last three years, but recently decided to move away from SFA to a TDA. Maybe it's the fact that baby number two will be here soon, I don't know, but even with two Gadgets on order I just don't care to AWIB a SFA anymore. We've discussed that topic ad nauseam, so no need to go there.

I thought I'd naturally carry my Brig Tac, but while searching for a holster recently I've been experimenting with some el cheap-o's at home and I'm starting to feel like it's just too long. Neither the weight or girth are showstoppers, but nor are they a plus. So, I went to the local gun shop to feel out a 92 compact thinking I would buy the new WC Compact Carry. Too short of grip for my taste, as I don't like doing the British sipping tea pinky thing when reloading.

While there, I also tried a P30, P229, P2000, and PX4 Compact. Didn't care for the P2000 or PX4c, and I keep reading poor things about Sig QA. I have a VP9 and five mags for it, so I'm thinking the P30 makes sense. I shoot the Brig Tac better than my 19/19L, so I naturally assumed if I bought a hammer gun it would be a DA/SA. I have a VP9 and shoot it better than glocks as well, so maybe I should look at an LEM since the majority of my trigger pulls in the last 15 years have been SA (1911) or SFA. That said, I've never even so much as seen an LEM let alone tried one. No stores in my area stock LEM variances.

I'm a little late to the P30 party, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from those that have stayed dedicated to one since they became a popular flavor here over four years ago. I've read our old P30 threads, some were relevant, but dated. So my questions...

Is the P30 still as good of a choice today as it was then? (General question for anyone to answer)

Who's still running one, why have you stuck with it, and would you still choose it today?

Who's moved on, and why?

Would I be best served by the DA/SA or jumping blind into an LEM?

[breakingtime91]

I'm normally very longwinded, so I'll do my absolute best to make this short. I've carried a glock variant for a decade, AIWB for the last three years, but recently decided to move away from SFA to a TDA. Maybe it's the fact that baby number two will be here soon, I don't know, but even with two Gadgets on order I just don't care to AWIB a SFA anymore. We've discussed that topic ad nauseam, so no need to go there.

I thought I'd naturally carry my Brig Tac, but while searching for a holster recently I've been experimenting with some el cheap-o's at home and I'm starting to feel like it's just too long. Neither the weight or girth are showstoppers, but nor are they a plus. So, I went to the local gun shop to feel out a 92 compact thinking I would buy the new WC Compact Carry. Too short of grip for my taste, as I don't like doing the British sipping tea pinky thing when reloading.

While there, I also tried a P30, P229, P2000, and PX4 Compact. Didn't care for the P2000 or PX4c, and I keep reading poor things about Sig QA. I have a VP9 and five mags for it, so I'm thinking the P30 makes sense. I shoot the Brig Tac better than my 19/19L, so I naturally assumed if I bought a hammer gun it would be a DA/SA. I have a VP9 and shoot it better than glocks as well, so maybe I should look at an LEM since the majority of my trigger pulls in the last 15 years have been SA (1911) or SFA. That said, I've never even so much as seen an LEM let alone tried one. No stores in my area stock LEM variances.

I'm a little late to the P30 party, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from those that have stayed dedicated to one since they became a popular flavor here over four years ago. I've read our old P30 threads, some were relevant, but dated. So my questions...

Is the P30 still as good of a choice today as it was then? (General question for anyone to answer)

Who's still running one, why have you stuck with it, and would you still choose it today?

Who's moved on, and why?

Would I be best served by the DA/SA or jumping blind into an LEM?

I like LEM, let me find time to write a long worded post about it.

[Hauptmann]

I've been a DA/SA Sig shooter for a couple of decades now. I got ahold of a used P30 9mm V3 DA/SA several years ago on a trade, so I figured I would see what all the fuss was about. My impressions were that the quality of the pistol was exceptional. I hadn't seen a LE mass produced pistol that nice since opening new boxes of W. German P226/P228s in the early 1990s. The DA/SA trigger was very similar in feel to the Sig's standard DA/SA trigger, although lighter and a tad longer overall. The grip felt great, and kept the pistol from shifting in the hand during trigger pulls. The first time I shot it I did a simple 30rd police course of fire, and I actually shot the P30 as well as a Sig P228 cold. With practice, I shot even better. Accuracy was outstanding out to 50 yards. The only negative I could find with it is that the slide was positioned more rearward than a P228, so the gun's recoil was a little more jumpy than the P228 and I could see a potential for limp-wristing problems under pressure. I liked the pistol, but decided that I didn't need it since I couldn't use it on or off duty.

[GardoneVT]

I'm normally very longwinded, so I'll do my absolute best to make this short. I've carried a glock variant for a decade, AIWB for the last three years, but recently decided to move away from SFA to a TDA. Maybe it's the fact that baby number two will be here soon, I don't know, but even with two Gadgets on order I just don't care to AWIB a SFA anymore. We've discussed that topic ad nauseam, so no need to go there.

I thought I'd naturally carry my Brig Tac, but while searching for a holster recently I've been experimenting with some el cheap-o's at home and I'm starting to feel like it's just too long. Neither the weight or girth are showstoppers, but nor are they a plus. So, I went to the local gun shop to feel out a 92 compact thinking I would buy the new WC Compact Carry. Too short of grip for my taste, as I don't like doing the British sipping tea pinky thing when reloading.

While there, I also tried a P30, P229, P2000, and PX4 Compact. Didn't care for the P2000 or PX4c, and I keep reading poor things about Sig QA. I have a VP9 and five mags for it, so I'm thinking the P30 makes sense. I shoot the Brig Tac better than my 19/19L, so I naturally assumed if I bought a hammer gun it would be a DA/SA. I have a VP9 and shoot it better than glocks as well, so maybe I should look at an LEM since the majority of my trigger pulls in the last 15 years have been SA (1911) or SFA. That said, I've never even so much as seen an LEM let alone tried one. No stores in my area stock LEM variances.

I'm a little late to the P30 party, so I'm hoping to get some feedback from those that have stayed dedicated to one since they became a popular flavor here over four years ago. I've read our old P30 threads, some were relevant, but dated. So my questions...

Is the P30 still as good of a choice today as it was then? (General question for anyone to answer)

Who's still running one, why have you stuck with it, and would you still choose it today?

Who's moved on, and why?

Would I be best served by the DA/SA or jumping blind into an LEM?

As someone who switched from a P30 LEM V2 back to the 92 , I'll offer this. Hopefully it helps you out.

The problem I had with LEM is that it required dedicated and specific practice to maintain skill. With my Beretta, I could shoot any DA/SA pistol , come back to the 92 and still perform decently with it. With the LEM P30 if I didn't get a live fire session within 14 days of the last one, I was starting over from Square One. I also found it confusing going from "press out on the draw" with the DA/SA system to "WAIT... Ok now take up the very light slack WALL !press " of the LEM. I found it almost like a mirror image trigger system.

As to the V3 P30s, I've always found DA /SA HK triggers to be at best "functional". The closest I've felt an HK DA/SA trigger come to "good" was the USP match trigger. If P30 9mms shipped with that setup id have to change usernames. However , they don't, and I can't digest the value proposition of dropping $1000 on a pistol with an inferior trigger to a $400 Sig 2022, to say nothing about a Beretta 92.

Lastly: park a P30 next to a Sig Pro or PX4, and it's hard to see where the extra $400 spent benefits the buyer. That's money which could be better spent on training and ammo, and just about every major brand gun sold has better accessory availability and lower prices then HK.

[breakingtime91]

Ok so I have been shooting LEM only for close to 6-7 months now (2k+ rounds but don't have my log book near me). I have had a M&P, Bertetta 92, and Glock 19 before that. So I have had a pretty decent showing of triggers and systems. Here are my thoughts, it is completely up to you to decide if its worth anything. LEM is a unique trigger system. You have a long take up like a DA that is smooth and doesn't really stack. You then hit a wall, the same wall you hit after a reset, that you have to press through. Here is the good news, its not a bad wall. It is easy to roll through the take up and wall if you are dedicated to this trigger system. If you are looking to be as fast as a SFA or tuned DA/SA this isnt the trigger system for you. I can out shoot this gun speed wise with a glock pretty much everyday. Here is the thing though, it isn't by a significant amount at all. We are talking at most .6. Which I know, it adds up, but in the reality of my shooting, I can't see the front sight at the speeds I am talking about so is it really relevant? I don't really think so. I regularly hit low 2 to high 2 second D5s (draw fire 5 rounds at 7 yards to a 8 inch circle) so the trigger is more then capable of delivering good performance. This is where the LEM gets really good, it is a stupid easy gun to use gun handling wise. I will do this list fashion
1) You have a long take up, which in my opinion, is important if its a carry piece. It gives you the ability to stop the press long before the break if the situation changes and that good shoot becomes a completely different kind of shoot.
2)You won't have to worry about decocking. Finger comes of the trigger, trigger goes back to its farthest starting point. This may not seem like a big deal to some but if you have been in a life or death fight before you understand how confused you can get and how many things you are managing. It is just nice to not have to worry about if my gun has a long/short take up.
3)There is a hammer to block. I think this speaks to itself if you been carrying appendix for any length of time.


DA/SA is also a good choice, especially a Beretta. The main thing you throw in there is the risk of holstering it in SA, which I know most of us say we wont do but shit happens. I think it was Nyeti who said he had to walk an experienced guy through decoking his gun after a shooting. This is just from my experience but I remember during an event I completely forgot what to do with a magazine after I did a tactical reload. Everything was smooth, mag out/mag in, mag in hand and then bam, blank. It wasn't that I wasn't trained, its just an example how you can be thinking about so many different things and just brain dump information/something you have done over and over again.

[StraitR]

As someone who switched from a P30 LEM V2 back to the 92 , I'll offer this. Hopefully it helps you out.

The problem I had with LEM is that it required dedicated and specific practice to maintain skill. With my Beretta, I could shoot any DA/SA pistol , come back to the 92 and still perform decently with it. With the LEM P30 if I didn't get a live fire session within 14 days of the last one, I was starting over from Square One. I also found it confusing going from "press out on the draw" with the DA/SA system to "WAIT... Ok now take up the very light slack WALL !press " of the LEM. I found it almost like a mirror image trigger system.

As to the V3 P30s, I've always found DA /SA HK triggers to be at best "functional". The closest I've felt an HK DA/SA trigger come to "good" was the USP match trigger. If P30 9mms shipped with that setup id have to change usernames. However , they don't, and I can't digest the value proposition of dropping $1000 on a pistol with an inferior trigger to a $400 Sig 2022, to say nothing about a Beretta 92.

Lastly: park a P30 next to a Sig Pro or PX4, and it's hard to see where the extra $400 spent benefits the buyer. That's money which could be better spent on training and ammo, and just about every major brand gun sold has better accessory availability and lower prices then HK.

And THAT is the crux of my concern with LEM, and I appreciate you bringing it up early.

I feel like if I shoot the Beretta well, some of that, at least the technical aspects of DA/SA, should transfer. You highlight my concern with the LEM, and that is, it's unlike anything else I shoot. The first time I shot my friends M9A1, I shot it better than I did my 17 on the same drill minutes earlier (a modified el prez with only two targets). I like the DA/SA, but so many experienced members here lambast the V3 and rave about the LEM. I realize everyone is different, but I want to get it all straight before dropping money on a new pistol. Open to a new Sig as well, if the consensus says the newer ones are good to go.

Agree that the price isn't good, but the money is what the money is. I'd rather not cross something off my list because it doesn't present the same value as other pistols at this point. In hindsight, I've probably held on to carrying/shooting glocks longer than I should have based on cost and logistics, something I started thinking about after reading your thread and blog post on the subject.

[The Apprentice]

Breakingtime somed it up pretty well the only thing I would add is to really try and get your hands on one to try. The other is that for me personally I need to be dedicated to the lem trigger, shooting any other triggers messes me up.

[LSP972]

Lastly: park a P30 next to a Sig Pro or PX4, and it's hard to see where the extra $400 spent benefits the buyer.

There is certainly no accounting for taste… but that has to be one of the more inane statements I have seen posted on this board.

Let's ignore the first class HE finish on the P30 vs the painted-on Bruniton; or whatever it is; on the PX4, and whatever semi-rough phosphate/Nitrolon/etc. the Sig is finished with. Let's simply compare the rather sleek, compact outline (the extra grip length excepted) of the P30 to the… I dunno what descriptor would be most appropriate… clunkiness?… of the other two. Especially the grips

Sorry all, I shouldn't be so curt… but I am just amazed.

.

[Hauptmann]

And THAT Open to a new Sig as well, if the consensus says the newer ones are good to go.

So far, I've found the most recent models(made after 2012) to be of good quality. Don't forget, even the famous W. German guns had the occasional manufacturing issue when they were in production. I do like those old guns, but a nice aspect of buying new is that it comes with an excellent factory warranty and good customer service. H&K has questionable CS.

[breakingtime91]

There is certainly no accounting for taste… but that has to be one of the more inane statements I have seen posted on this board.

Let's ignore the first class HE finish on the P30 vs the painted-on Bruniton; or whatever it is; on the PX4, and whatever semi-rough phosphate/Nitrolon/etc. the Sig is finished with. Let's simply compare the rather sleek, compact outline (the extra grip length excepted) of the P30 to the… I dunno what descriptor would be most appropriate… clunkiness?… of the other two. Especially the grips

Sorry all, I shouldn't be so curt… but I am just amazed.

.

Completely agree.. this is like when people compare sigma to the glock or m&p series. Not saying its the same quality comparison but it is a comparison none the less.