USMC Approves Glock 19 for MARSOC.

[BLR]

Simple. The butt hurt is because there is a truly massive amount of ignorant derp associated with the 1911, both pro and con.

The G17/19 is a great idea. It's super cheap, super simple, super light, and super reliable. It would easily be my first choice if picking a 9mm to be issued based on those qualities.

Now to more directly speak to the 1911 butt hurt individuals. People want reassurance they are picking the right gun. When one unit or another moves away from them, it makes them question their choice. Simple as that.

In spite of the "experts" the 1911 suffers from few shortcomings:
1. It will never, ever, ever be as cheap as a nylon framed, injection molded soulless plastic gun. It just wont.
2. It carries half the bbs as a double column 9mm.

Those are the big ones. They aren't difficult to maintain. They don't need depot level rebuild every 5k. They don't need hand fit parts anymore than a Glock. They don't rely on black magic to run. You don't need to baby them. They don't need to be cleaned constantly. They are super easy to shoot well. They aren't difficult to reload. Extractors don't need to be replaced every 7.5k. The M45 wasn't the spectacular failure or boondoggle as oft reported (yes, I read the report. Multiple times. I even talked to the people actually involved). It is one of the most, if not the most, reliable 45s made. It does not have a torturous feed path. The slide and frame don't wear out in 50k. 500k, maybe. They aren't anymore lubricant intensive than any other "full frame rail" design. The problem is the current "experts" have no idea as to what they are talking about. If they did, they'd be talking about the case rim, not about blind parts swapping. They'd be talking about Devel's radiused feed ramp geometry, not how polished the ramp can be made.

Most of the 1911 fanboys today have no idea, and they are looking for reassurance. So they band together when they feel their decision might not be the best. They quickly ignore the many advantages of the design.

[DocGKR]

Having run a 1911 from 1986-2010, I'd agree with Bill Riehl's comments above.

1. Properly built 1911's are more expensive than modern polymer designs.
2. 1911's have a reduced magazine capacity compared to modern double stack 9 mm pistols.
3. Properly built 1911's are not difficult to maintain--especially compared to something like an M9, but Glocks are definitely easier.
4. Properly built 1911's can run many tens of thousands of rounds without a rebuild; many former MEUSOC M1911's went 70k-100k between rebuilds.
5. Properly built 1911's using correct parts should work without extensive fitting--unfortunately in the post WWII era, this is no longer the norm.
6. Properly built 1911's can be run just as hard and dirty as a Glock, but the 1911's need a LOT more lube.
7. 1911's are easy to shoot, but with a bit of practice most folks find Glocks also shoot well.
8. Double stack mags tend to be easier and quicker to reload than a single stack, especially in a stock 1911 without a mag well.
9. Properly built 1911 extractors seem to run quite well--probably as good as some of the recent Glock OEM extractors...
10. Seen a lot of MEUSOC M1911's frames with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them.

[Rich]

You can make a G19 bigger (+2 extensions and magwells) but a G17 can't get smaller.

Ive seen cut down G17

[Rich]

There's no advantage to carrying a larger, heavier pistol that holds the same number of rounds in the magazine.

My experience differs.


My heavy revolvers had a lot less recoil making bill drills a lot faster. Lframe/GP100 vs J&K
With 4 and better yet 6 inch barrel I shoot more accurately at 25 /50Y

I prefer the impulse metal framed pistol have over polymer pistols like my P30S 9mm . S&W M5906 & CZ steel frame , P229 & Beretta aluminum

[Jeep]

My experience differs.


My heavy revolvers had a lot less recoil making bill drills a lot faster. Lframe/GP100 vs J&K
With 4 and better yet 6 inch barrel I shoot more accurately at 25 /50Y

I prefer the impulse metal framed pistol have over polymer pistols like my P30S 9mm . S&W M5906 & CZ steel frame , P229 & Beretta aluminum

Rich: A lot of folks agree with you. But, if you were carrying 100 pounds walking up and down mountains, and your pistol is only a secondary weapon for true emergencies, wouldn't you be tempted to carry a small, plastic framed gun to save the better part of a pound of weight? In the end, unless a pistol is your primary weapon, it is only a back up. You want it to work if it ever becomes needed and otherwise you want it to be a little of a burden as possible.

[HCM]

My experience differs.


My heavy revolvers had a lot less recoil making bill drills a lot faster. Lframe/GP100 vs J&K
With 4 and better yet 6 inch barrel I shoot more accurately at 25 /50Y

I prefer the impulse metal framed pistol have over polymer pistols like my P30S 9mm . S&W M5906 & CZ steel frame , P229 & Beretta aluminum

Fair enough, however is this based solely on the P 30S? I ask because you've previous mentioned the P30S being snappy. I had a P30S in 40 caliber and it also seemed to have a bit more recoil than other polymer framed 40s I've shot.

[TiroFijo]

Having run a 1911 from 1986-2010, I'd agree with Bill Riehl's comments above.

1. Properly built 1911's are more expensive than modern polymer designs.
2. 1911's have a reduced magazine capacity compared to modern double stack 9 mm pistols.
3. Properly built 1911's are not difficult to maintain--especially compared to something like an M9, but Glocks are definitely easier.
4. Properly built 1911's can run many tens of thousands of rounds without a rebuild; many former MEUSOC M1911's went 70k-100k between rebuilds.
5. Properly built 1911's using correct parts should work without extensive fitting--unfortunately in the post WWII era, this is no longer the norm.
6. Properly built 1911's can be run just as hard and dirty as a Glock, but the 1911's need a LOT more lube.
7. 1911's are easy to shoot, but with a bit of practice most folks find Glocks also shoot well.
8. Double stack mags tend to be easier and quicker to reload than a single stack, especially in a stock 1911 without a mag well.
9. Properly built 1911 extractors seem to run quite well--probably as good as some of the recent Glock OEM extractors...
10. Seen a lot of MEUSOC M1911's frames with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them.

#10: emphasis on frames... not "entire pistols"

FWIW, I really like the 1911s, but one of their stronger points for me is the wonderful trigger, and that is not something you get with fire control drop in parts in a 1911, not now, not ever. Same with extractors and other small parts.

Not that its parts last a short time to wear, but when the time comes, you need someone who nows about the design. When you have a lot of pistols to maintain, that definitely puts in my opinion in the way more difficult to maintain in the long run compared to a glock.

[BLR]

#10: emphasis on frames... not "entire pistols"

FWIW, I really like the 1911s, but one of their stronger points for me is the wonderful trigger, and that is not something you get with fire control drop in parts in a 1911, not now, not ever. Same with extractors and other small parts.

Not that its parts last a short time to wear, but when the time comes, you need someone who nows about the design. When you have a lot of pistols to maintain, that definitely puts in my opinion in the way more difficult to maintain in the long run compared to a glock.

Not to be a dick............

Care to explain the trigger and extractor parts And Other small parts? I'm a horrible skeptic, and everyone says these types of things yet no one backs them up.

[BLR]

I should point out, I just recently won a bet with a copper who "knew" Extractors all need to be fitted......by swapping around 5 extractors from 5 different NRM S70 colts with no ill effects. So......... I did the same thing with 5 CQBs.

And 4 Browns.

And 3 NHCs.

And so on

[LittleLebowski]

10. Seen a lot of MEUSOC M1911's frames with hundreds of thousands of rounds through them.

I've seen a literal pile of broken MEUSOCs (not the frames but not operable, either) and happen to know a senior Force/Bn Recon NCO who said:

The pistols were always broke do to the sheer round count that went through those guns. Well over 90k during a package split between 24 guys, plus we'd sometimes get the Israeli made TZZ rounds. Then add in a few thousand rounds more for the work up exercises, then the 3 X a week proficiency shoots for 6 months while on float and you can see why those guns were beat to shit!

When we floated we'd take parts block with us and do our own repairs. But sometimes a gun couldn't be fixed, so in that case we had a half dozen or so spare pistols.