Revolver article in MSW.

[Wheeler]

I've heard/read this claim many times but I am unsure how one comes to that conclusion. It seems to suggest that having a semiauto in one's hands automatically makes one less precise or less concerned about hits & misses.

That is one way to interpret that, although that's not really what I said. I'm referring to the thinking/planning side of things. Not the potential inherent accuracy of a particular semi-auto vs a revolver and any particular abilities bestowed on the user by using a revolver. The revolver has been referred to as "the thinking man's gun" by many. I tend to agree with that.

Another way to look at it is the serious revolver shooter is more concerned about good hits simply because he/she doesn't have the luxury of multiple follow up shots. It's all about perception.

Let me be clear that I'm not trying to change anyone's mind on the subject. I'm simply trying to clarify that there is a different mindset that is just as viable.

[Symmetry]

The limited luxury of make up shots tends to make one think just a little bit more before taking a shot.

When it came to shooting paper, I generally had the same mental perspective when I carried a Sig P220 .45. Fewer rounds to play with, and slightly slower recoil recovery encouraged me to make those shots count. When shooting steel though, I tend to be more careful regardless of the pistol caliber and capacity as the instant target feedback encourages one to hit the steel on the first shot so that you can move on.

The big problem is that human targets tend to behave more like shooting paper. You don't really get much feedback from the target to know if your shots are hitting anything, unless they voluntarily stop resisting(OMG! You shot me!!). I feel a little warmer and fuzzier when I can keep my follow up shots on that "paper" faster and more accurate(single action trigger) and have ammo left over to work the next unexpected hurdle in the scenario.

[Dagga Boy]

I'll add my "rod s won't agree with" response to some of this.

The modern semi automatic service pistol is very good for being able to stay in a gunfight with minimal manipulations on the gun during that fight for a longer period of time. That is fairly logical. With modern hi-performance ammunition we are looking at being able to engage multiple bad guys without interruption and with a high level of efficiency if the shooter maintains good composure and discipline, or the shooter has the ability to have multiple fights as they appear while the combatants are maneuvering against one another. So we have good efficiency and low manipulations with the modern semi-automatic pistol. If you are looking for a counter robbery tool for use against multiple bad guys by well trained good guys, then the modern semi automatic pistol is a good choice and a logical choice. It is what I carry daily.

Now the revolver. The revolver shines as being low on administrative manipulations when handling the firearm. Being we tend to handle them far more than fighting with them, this is a good thing. I can check the condition of a revolver literally without touching it, and the process to correctly check for status verification is so simple my child can perform this task easily with little or no physical effort. The revolver tends to be very safe for off body carry when used in pockets, purses, etc. They are my number one first choice for appendix carry, and the first firearms that I saw the benefits of this type of carry. They can remain loaded for decades with no issue. Their manual of operation is extremely simple and are very good for non-dedicated users that make up a VAST majority of the population (even though many think they are far more competent than they actually are). They work well at contact distances and function well when used as an in-extremis impact tool. They are not ammunition dependent to function (which is important). This also allows bullets of any configuration to be used in their ammunition to match the mission as needed. Everything from light loads to loads for big game.
A few other issues. Many jurisdictions in this country are not "semi auto friendly". In these places being a efficient user of both revolvers and pump shotguns is a good idea. How about magazine restrictions. My 7 shot .357 Magnum revolver shooting hi-performance ammunition is no longer taking much of a back seat to an auto restricted to 7-10 rounds with some abortion of an after-thought feeding device that is critical in the operation of a semi-automatic. Oh yeah......without a magazine (the part that can be easily separated from the gun), the semi is essentially useless. Essentially, that magazine can be both a huge positive or huge negative depending on how Murphy is feeling at the moment. Let's look at ammunition restrictions. Anyone want to argue for FMJ 9mm. All of a sudden when we look at many non-hollow-point ammunition in revolvers compared to auto's, it is literally night and day with performance. The medium frame .38/.357 can also easily be adapted to multiple calibers based on restrictions in some areas. One of my customers many years ago was a world traveler on behalf of the United States government and carried all over the world. He was issued a semi-automatic pistol......that he could not carry in many places due to local restrictions. He carried a 3" Ruger Speed Six modified to shoot an array of rounds both revolver and semi-automatic and included many non-military rounds required in many places.
In regards to ammunition, like LSP972, when I was doing research at my old place I noticed the same thing as he did. One thing had an unblemished record for single round stops every time they hit a suspect anywhere.....the .45 Colt. There is something to be said for some bullet performance when that ammunition does not have to function the firearm.
Up until recently many highly regarded counter-terror units used .357 Magnum revolvers extensively and particularly for tubular assault work by point men. I have a very solid contact into that world. For shooting in very tight confines with often contact or near contact shots in chaos, what he termed the ".38 Special with a Flashbang" was a very viable tool. Do not underestimate muzzle blast. While I usually carry a semi-automatic 9mm pistol in a IWB holster, I often have a .357 or .44 magnum revolver under my leg when I am driving, especially as of late for their ability to blow an attacker off my vehicle. I like the method of operation of the revolver for this particular task. Many of the arguments in favor of the snub revolver apply to the mid size revolver as well.

Is a revolver for everyone........I would make the argument that FAR more so than the auto based on my observations of a majority of gun owners. Is it optimal as a fighting tool, nope. Are there better options....for many scenario's yes. Do they totaly suck and have no place in our world......hardly. I will say this. Hizzie is built like a tank. I would not want to screw with him in general, and especially with one or two hunks of steel that he is very good at getting into his hands. When you add his ability to make big, loud explosions attached to the bullets leaving those hunks of steel......I am great with his choice of tool.

Many here are not old enough, or have not had a job of actually doing serious interaction with very serious evil doers with revolvers. They are quite capable and a ton of good work is possible.

[LSP972]

Do not underestimate muzzle blast. While I usually carry a semi-automatic … .45 ACP pistol in a IWB holster, I... have a .357… revolver… handy... when I am driving, especially as of late for their ability to blow an attacker off my vehicle.

Exactly so; which is why I built DudeShooter II; a square butt M-66, issued with a 4" barrel, that now wears a two inch tube from a M-64. Using ANY full-patch .357 cartridge, the muzzle blast and flash from this thing is fearsome. Even if I miss something important, at car distances I'm likely to set his ass on fire.

BTW, your last two sentences pretty well sums up the subject.

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[rsa-otc]

As usual nyeti hit the nail squarely on the head.

[Hizzie]

Now that nyeti has made me blush.

I'm glad that this article has caused so much discussion. I've enjoyed the spirited discussion. Interesting how our backgrounds shape our thoughts on the subject. I really enjoyed writing this one. I think for my next article I will tackle a less controversial subject such as 9mm vs 45.

[Tom Duffy]

ToddG wrote: "You've never seen a revolver suffer a mechanical malfunction? Heck, a tiny piece of debris under the star can lock a gun up solid. Mistiming. Parts failure. Show me a revolver that has successfully made it through a typical 10-20k round LE test."

While I've had each of these problems occur while shooting old revolvers, I genuinely do not understand this fixation with a 10-20k test or a 2000 round challenge. My revolvers and semi autos get cleaned after every range session and I am confident that the next time I bring them to the range, they will shoot 100-200 rounds of cheaper factory ammo without a problem. If I ever needed one for self defense, I'm also confident that my clean revolver will shoot several reloads of .357 without a malfunction. I also believe that a new Ruger revolver would go a minimum of 10,000 rounds without anything breaking. So, after shooting $5,000 worth of ammo though the gun, I would expect to make a $600 dollar investment in a new revolver and keep going.

[Dagga Boy]

ToddG wrote: "You've never seen a revolver suffer a mechanical malfunction? Heck, a tiny piece of debris under the star can lock a gun up solid. Mistiming. Parts failure. Show me a revolver that has successfully made it through a typical 10-20k round LE test."

While I've had each of these problems occur while shooting old revolvers, I genuinely do not understand this fixation with a 10-20k test or a 2000 round challenge. My revolvers and semi autos get cleaned after every range session and I am confident that the next time I bring them to the range, they will shoot 100-200 rounds of cheaper factory ammo without a problem. If I ever needed one for self defense, I'm also confident that my clean revolver will shoot several reloads of .357 without a malfunction. I also believe that a new Ruger revolver would go a minimum of 10,000 rounds without anything breaking. So, after shooting $5,000 worth of ammo though the gun, I would expect to make a $600 dollar investment in a new revolver and keep going.

To expound on this. When it comes to long term hard use, the modern service pistol wins, and it is not worth discussing. On the other hand, let's look at practical reliability. Take the typical American gun owner. Most rarely shoot. Most really don't know what they don't know. I will gladly make the argument that a clean Ruger or Smith medium frame revolver with new factory ammunition will be less likely to have a shooter or mechanical malfunction if picked up and shot in a crisis over the next several decades than a fully loaded and clean semi-automatic pistol as far as "things that can go wrong", particularly on the shooters side of the equation. One thing we have seen in LE is a lot of cases of shooter induced malfunctions in actual shootings that have nothing to do with the mechanical function of the pistol, but failings of the operator. Most of the failings I have seen with revolvers tend to be clothing related and are usually "fixable" without any real process. The failings of the semi-autos will often need a practiced set of procedures to return the pistol to a functional state that many are incapable of under stress. With that said, as far as true mechanical issues, like the shotgun vs. carbine argument, when revolvers crap the bed, they usually need a gunsmith to fix them, where the pistols can often be fixed much easier.

[TiroFijo]

Good discussion by all

Regarding reloading, not only is the semiauto faster, but I've seen more reloading problems (doing something wrong that takes some extra time) with revolvers than with semiautos in competition, and this is in broad daylight...

I'm just a civilian with no combat experience, but I do realize that every second counts and watching a lot of shooters do even a relatively low round count stage in IPSC with revolvers vs semiautos (just the normal "service" ones) gives me a lot to think about.

[Kyle Reese]

Now that nyeti has made me blush.

I'm glad that this article has caused so much discussion. I've enjoyed the spirited discussion. Interesting how our backgrounds shape our thoughts on the subject. I really enjoyed writing this one. I think for my next article I will tackle a less controversial subject such as 9mm vs 45.

Excellent article, Hizzie. You still haven't convinced me to supplant my Glock 17 with a wheelgun, however.