Beretta is bringing in MR73 revolvers

[TCinVA]

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin-mr73-sport-5-25/

They won't be cheap...

[Lex Luthier]

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin-mr73-sport-5-25/

They won't be cheap...

But they will be Glorious.

Oh jeez, another potential deep expense. How in blazes am I supposed to afford
a) one of your classes
and
b) A Beretta 1301 & mods
when something like this comes along?

Signed,

Penurious Artisan

[fly out]

That's gorgeous. Not $3,300 gorgeous, but, gorgeous nonetheless.

[jtcarm]

They were already here: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/pistols/manurhin/brand-new-manurhin-mr73-357-38-in-4-quot----6-quot--barrels.cfm?gun_id=101616077

I had been hoping Beretta would less expensive.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

Well...debt freedom is overrated. :eek:

[GJM]

This thread doesn't get real until JCN buys one and takes the hacksaw to it.

[LOKNLOD]

This thread doesn't get real until JCN buys one and takes the hacksaw to it.

...while shooting moonclipped surplus corrosion 9mm Mak out of it.

[Stephanie B]

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin-mr73-sport-5-25/

They won't be cheap...

jetfire needs to get his hands on one and do a comparison with the new Python.

[Lex Luthier]

This thread doesn't get real until JCN buys one and takes the hacksaw to it.

I'd be frightened of a retaliatory visit from Prouteau's boys. You don't just trifle with La Gloire de La Republique, you know?

[Kyle Reese]

I’d love to see a Holosun 509T (https://www.amazon.com/HOLOSUN-HE509T-Elite-Red-Sight/dp/B084Z2768S/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=holosun+509t&qid=1619307888&sr=8-2) on one.


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[Glenn E. Meyer]

Marriage breaker! It's worth a new sofa. We are looking at fancy coffee tables - some are $1200 for fancy hardwood. I decline - so buy this?

Now, the description says that the magazine capacity is 6 rounds. Oh, did they mean 'clip'. :rolleyes:

[45dotACP]

So what you're saying is an LTT tuned MR73 is on the way?

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[Hambo]

This thread doesn't get real until JCN buys one and takes the hacksaw to it.

Angle grinder. He's not a hacksaw guy.

[jtcarm]

Marriage breaker! It's worth a new sofa. We are looking at fancy coffee tables - some are $1200 for fancy hardwood. I decline - so buy this?

Now, the description says that the magazine capacity is 6 rounds. Oh, did they mean 'clip'. :rolleyes:

No marriage, no need for a sofa or coffee table, so it pays for itself.

The divorce attorney could be a bit pricey[emoji15]

[RevolverRob]

I know y'all are joking...but some things we don't joke about.

Cutting up a MR73, a Korth, or any 19th century Colt are things we don't joke about.

I have a very specific sixth sense that tells me when an heirloom grade revolver is about to be ruined. I will appear like Death and drag you to the depths of hell. Where your only weapon of choice in your endless duels against Satan will be a Bubba'ized Hi-Point.

I am RevolverRob, I have spoken.

[awp_101]

I will appear like Death and drag you to the depths of hell. Where your only weapon of choice in your endless duels against Satan will be a Bubba'ized Hi-Point.
But will there be cake? I was told there would be cake...

[RevolverRob]

But will there be cake? I was told there would be cake...

Cake is reserved for people who did not cut up heirloom-grade revolvers.

[Stephanie B]

I know y'all are joking...but some things we don't joke about.

Cutting up a MR73, a Korth, or any 19th century Colt are things we don't joke about.

I have a very specific sixth sense that tells me when an heirloom grade revolver is about to be ruined. I will appear like Death and drag you to the depths of hell. Where your only weapon of choice in your endless duels against Satan will be a Bubba'ized Hi-Point.

I am RevolverRob, I have spoken.

Chill out, it's a brand-new revolver. Some guy wants to spend over three grand for a revolver and then run it through a chopsaw and feed it shit ammo, we have the right to make fun of him.

It's not as though he's crazy enough to do this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaijtrGYfQM

WARNING: You can't unsee that.

[Scal]

I recently got a new MR73. I am not nearly as prolific a shooter as many of the other folks here, so I am probably not going to be able to do a 2000 round challenge with the gun in any kind of timely manner.

As far as initial impressions, it’s noticeably more accurate at 20 yards with the same batch of my reloads in my no dash 686, which itself is pretty good in the accuracy department. The guns were pretty well matched at 7 and 10 yards. The MR73 build quality is excellent, and it has very little play in the yoke/crane or cylinder. This is a new manufacture Chapuis gun, so I have no idea how it stacks up against the original Manurhin guns, but I am impressed examining it in person when compared to older Smiths.

The trigger pull is pretty darn nice, and tuneable for weight by adjusting both the mainspring tension, and the tension on the rebound slide. I would say that double action is about like a good Smith DA trigger (but with a shorter trigger stroke), so pretty nice, but for $3000+, I consider a good trigger mandatory.

The thing that is annoying to me is that there are no additional sight options, and the trigger comes grooved from the factory, which is not something that I like, personally. It seems like lousy sight and grip options are pretty much standard for most revolvers, and it’s not exactly like there are enough MR73s being made to justify a robust aftermarket for it, although I am hopeful Beretta acting as an importer might change that.

I had the grooves in the trigger polished out, and re-heat colored the trigger in my oven. I also put a couple coats of orange paint on the front sight, and blacked out the rear sight dots. Hopefully, I will get the holster I had made for it in soon (Rusty Sherrick has a mold for the gun, and his lead time was about 8 weeks), and I can try doing some holster work. I also ordered some of the non-Trausch grips for this gun, as well as my MR88 from a place in France (https://armt-creations.monsite-orange.fr/), so we’ll see how these grips are when they arrive.

Overall, I would say that it’s a very nice gun, but I personally feel like the super high price premium is maybe a bit too much. However because my gripes are about the ergonomics of the gun rather than any other flaws, I want to shoot it some more with the grip, sight, and trigger tweaks before I say that it’s too expensive.

[jtcarm]

But will there be cake? I was told there would be cake...

No, there will be only....Glocks.

[olstyn]

But will there be cake? I was told there would be cake...

The cake is a lie.

[jh9]

I recently got a new MR73. I am not nearly as prolific a shooter as many of the other folks here, so I am probably not going to be able to do a 2000 round challenge with the gun in any kind of timely manner.

As far as initial impressions, it’s noticeably more accurate at 20 yards with the same batch of my reloads in my no dash 686, which itself is pretty good in the accuracy department. The guns were pretty well matched at 7 and 10 yards. The MR73 build quality is excellent, and it has very little play in the yoke/crane or cylinder. This is a new manufacture Chapuis gun, so I have no idea how it stacks up against the original Manurhin guns, but I am impressed examining it in person when compared to older Smiths.

The trigger pull is pretty darn nice, and tuneable for weight by adjusting both the mainspring tension, and the tension on the rebound slide. I would say that double action is about like a good Smith DA trigger (but with a shorter trigger stroke), so pretty nice, but for $3000+, I consider a good trigger mandatory.

The thing that is annoying to me is that there are no additional sight options, and the trigger comes grooved from the factory, which is not something that I like, personally. It seems like lousy sight and grip options are pretty much standard for most revolvers, and it’s not exactly like there are enough MR73s being made to justify a robust aftermarket for it, although I am hopeful Beretta acting as an importer might change that.

I had the grooves in the trigger polished out, and re-heat colored the trigger in my oven. I also put a couple coats of orange paint on the front sight, and blacked out the rear sight dots. Hopefully, I will get the holster I had made for it in soon (Rusty Sherrick has a mold for the gun, and his lead time was about 8 weeks), and I can try doing some holster work. I also ordered some of the non-Trausch grips for this gun, as well as my MR88 from a place in France (https://armt-creations.monsite-orange.fr/), so we’ll see how these grips are when they arrive.

Overall, I would say that it’s a very nice gun, but I personally feel like the super high price premium is maybe a bit too much. However because my gripes are about the ergonomics of the gun rather than any other flaws, I want to shoot it some more with the grip, sight, and trigger tweaks before I say that it’s too expensive.

Yeah, that's the million dollar question. Is Beretta going to be providing sights, grips, etc and more importantly, factory repair service. Or are they just a glorified importer.

[Scal]

I have heard that they will likely be taking over domestic warranty service on the guns, so hopefully this also includes having a decent supply of spare parts and grips available. As far as I know, the only sights available on the latest generation Chapuis guns are either the two dot or match extended rear sights, and plain ramped serrated or patridge front sights.

The same person who told me about the warranty service situation told me that Beretta was going to be importing these guns about six weeks ago. They also had heard that Beretta was probably going to be fairly hands-off with Chapuis, but they did throw them some cash to update some of their machinery. I guess that we’ll see what happens with this situation as time goes on, because it’s not like businesses can’t intend to do something and then change their mind.

Also, as much as I would like to have Smith and Wesson revolver scale support for the MR73, I think that this is potentially going to be really hard to make a business case for. Revolvers are only a small fraction of domestic gun sales, and this particular revolver with a frankly eye-watering price tag ensures most of that potential customer pool is either very well off financially and/or extremely stubborn and motivated to specifically buy MR73s. So you’re looking at a tiny fraction of an already niche market segment.

[OlongJohnson]

I predict they will sell reasonably well in Beretta gallery stores to the high-end shotgun set.

[paherne]

I'm already lining up overtime details to pay for this thing before I retire at the end of the year. I will have one.

[jetfire]

jetfire needs to get his hands on one and do a comparison with the new Python.

As soon as there are enough in the states for this to happen, believe me it will

[WobblyPossum]

As soon as there are enough in the states for this to happen, believe me it will

I’m disturbed by how excited I am about such a comparison/review. An MR73 is one of my grail guns and the news that Beretta is going to be importing them and potentially providing actual factory support is great. I’m trying to figure out if it would be worse to miss out on one of these or to buy one and then get shot with it when my girlfriend finds out how much it cost.

[Bucky]

A 3” model with a smooth trigger and more practical sights... I’d get plastic burn I’d be whipping out my credit card so quickly. :D

[mtnbkr]

At the purchase price of $3300 ($3500 after tax here in VA), is this a better value proposition than a S&W or Ruger revolver tuned and customized by any number of master gunsmiths? If we removed the "story" that goes along with the MR73, what makes it worth north of 3k?

Chris

[jh9]

At the purchase price of $3300 ($3500 after tax here in VA), is this a better value proposition than a S&W or Ruger revolver tuned and customized by any number of master gunsmiths? If we removed the "story" that goes along with the MR73, what makes it worth north of 3k?

Chris

If you're not interested in the story or the unicorn horn it's presumably machined out of then yeah, a S&W or Ruger gone over by a good smith is probably more practical. For some value of "practical" discussing a full-size, six-shot revolver in the year 2021.

They've also been roughly in the low to mid 3k mark for years now. Pre-lock S&W .357s, of which many more were made, are routinely breaking the 1k mark at auction. Sometimes even for pedestrian examples.

If you've got full custom 1911 money to burn, this isn't the worst way to do it.

[awp_101]

The cake is a lie.

70717

[OlongJohnson]

If you've got full custom 1911 money to burn, this isn't the worst way to do it.

This.

If all the 1911s you could buy new lived in the $450-1100 street price range (during more normal times), a Wilson Combat, or even a Dan Wesson or STI, would seem ludicrous, but they keep the spindles turning building $1800-3600 guns all day. It's conceivable that the reason there's currently no market for $3300 revolvers is simply because nobody's tried marketing a revolver that's actually worth $3300 the way it's originally manufactured. Wilson Combat isn't going to put Springfield out of business and MR73s and Korths aren't going to put S&W and Ruger out of business. But they sure might be worth someone's time.

Having spent the time to un-kitten a few revolvers at this point, I'd have to consider it a bargain if I could just buy one that was as well made out of the box as a DW Silverback at a similar price point.

[Wondering Beard]

Questions:

What's that finish on the hammer and trigger that make it look like bronze and what's the purpose?

What's up with the two white dot adjustable rear sight and the plain black front sight?

[Lex Luthier]

As spoken by others, I could see the cost advantage of such a purchase if it were the equal of the original manufacturer's version, with the added value of support from Beretta.
A good condition S & W Registered Magnum runs approximately twice that, and has no factory support at all. Looking around, that is probably the closest comparison in intended quality goal and execution.

[Scal]

Questions:

What's that finish on the hammer and trigger that make it look like bronze and what's the purpose?

What's up with the two white dot adjustable rear sight and the plain black front sight?

I *think* that it’s heat coloring. I was able to get pretty close duplicating it in my oven on the trigger. Think that I went about 15 degrees too hot and some blues and reds crept in to the bronze coloring.

And I really don’t know why they have the two dot rear sight. I would say it’s the French, but the Manurhin owners on French gun forums tend to complain about it, too. The older guns had plain rear sights, and early Chapuis guns used a Millet sight with a squared white outline.

I just decided to take the plunge anyways instead of spending another few years wondering about MR73s from afar. Having to use a black paint pen on my 3 kilobuck revolver is kind of annoying, but I knew that I was going to be dealing with it when I put the money down.

[Coal Train]

Very cool, good on Beretta for giving this a try.

The thing that would concern me with purchasing one is that in my experience, Beretta's customer service is amazingly terrible on their own products they have been making largely unchanged for decades. How will the support be for a firearm they do not produce and isn't commonly available in this country?

[Stephanie B]

jetfire needs to get his hands on one and do a comparison with the new Python.


As soon as there are enough in the states for this to happen, believe me it will


I’m disturbed by how excited I am about such a comparison/review.

I'm right there with you. As others have pointed out, Wilson and others have no problems with selling bespoke 1911s at the MR73 price point or higher.

[OlongJohnson]

Questions:

What's that finish on the hammer and trigger that make it look like bronze and what's the purpose?

I suspect it's TiN, titanium nitride. Very hard, used on cutting tools to make them wear longer. And other stuff.

[RevolverRob]

Just checked y'all did see the 4" 'Gendarmerie' version, right? https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manhurin-mr73-gendarmerie-4/

___

Real talk for a minute. I've been writing a novel where the main character is a former GIGN agent turned freelance counter-terror advisor. And he definitely carries an MR73 (or three).

And now I think I might need a 4" Gendarmerie version for 'research purposes'.

[OlongJohnson]

And now I think I might need a 4" Gendarmerie version for 'research purposes'.

Business expense. The ammo, too. And the leather. ;)

Dang, maybe I need to start writing fiction. (Insert joke about submitting articles to gun magazines here.)


Seriously, though. If I found out the black finish was nitride and not bluing, I think I would be on this.

[zeleny]

Questions:

What's that finish on the hammer and trigger that make it look like bronze and what's the purpose?

What's up with the two white dot adjustable rear sight and the plain black front sight?The finish on the hammer and trigger is heat coloring.

The current rear sight made by Recknagel is the only part changed over from the original Mulhouse design. The original Swiss-made rear sight is no longer being made. Front sight options of serrated ramp and Patridge post patterns remain unchanged.

[Half Moon]

Questions:

What's that finish on the hammer and trigger that make it look like bronze and what's the purpose?

What's up with the two white dot adjustable rear sight and the plain black front sight?

As I understand it, it's from the heat treat. It's more gold than bronze in person.

[Doc_Glock]

Just checked y'all did see the 4" 'Gendarmerie' version, right? https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manhurin-mr73-gendarmerie-4/



Oh crap. I did not need to see that 4" version...

[OlongJohnson]

Found zeleny's writeup on his site.

https://larvatus.livejournal.com/519794.html

[RevolverRob]

Oh crap. I did not need to see that 4" version...

Oh don't be mad...just get a 4" and 5.25"...:cool:

[Stephanie B]

Just checked y'all did see the 4" 'Gendarmerie' version, right? https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manhurin-mr73-gendarmerie-4/

___

Real talk for a minute. I've been writing a novel where the main character is a former GIGN agent turned freelance counter-terror advisor. And he definitely carries an MR73 (or three).

And now I think I might need a 4" Gendarmerie version for 'research purposes'.

I've been slogging away at writing a SF-mystery novel. The protagonist has a 686. I'm going to change that to a MR73.

[RevolverRob]

I've been slogging away at writing a SF-mystery novel. The protagonist has a 686. I'm going to change that to a MR73.

686/681/66 could be a good choice if your character has background as a Navy Seal. But obviously an MR73 gets my nod of approval.

[Lex Luthier]

686/681/66 could be a good choice if your character has background as a Navy Seal. But obviously an MR73 gets my nod of approval.

I will laugh if Amazon starts grouping these novels in listings and making author suggestions to consumers based on the firearms mentioned therein.

[CWM11B]

Oh crap. I did not need to see that 4" version...

Uh Ohhhhhhh. I might be in trouble here...

[Bucky]

Just checked y'all did see the 4" 'Gendarmerie' version, right? https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manhurin-mr73-gendarmerie-4/
.

That wasn’t necessary. :o:eek:

[JCN]

This thread doesn't get real until JCN buys one and takes the hacksaw to it.

I just bought a 4" one and plan on cutting it down to 3" and having the cylinder cut for 9mm....


Just kidding, do you see the super secret squirrel hidden message?

[OlongJohnson]

They make a 3-inch gun.

You might enjoy the process of importing one. Not cheap or easy, but can be done legally.

https://www.chapuis-armes.com/en/manurhin-guns/

[Stephanie B]

You’re taking a chopsaw to a $3.3K revolver?

You got guts, I’ll give you that…..

[JCN]

I just bought a 4" one and plan on cutting it down to 3" and having the cylinder cut for 9mm....

Just kidding, do you see the super secret squirrel hidden message?

I was waiting for someone to quote my post so the super secret squirrel writing would show up!
It’s in tiny white font so you have to look hard...


You’re taking a chopsaw to a $3.3K revolver?

You got guts, I’ll give you that…..

I’ve cut on $3000 custom racing wheels and Dremeled $180k race cars in order to fit things that would help me in a competition for a singular purpose. If the MR73 had a competition benefit over a kitted out Smith and Wesson, I’d have no issue with cutting one, though.

[fly out]

They make a 3-inch gun.

You might enjoy the process of importing one. Not cheap or easy, but can be done legally.

https://www.chapuis-armes.com/en/manurhin-guns/

Sort of interesting to me that they make a 2-1/2" and 2-3/4" in addition to the 3" Gendarmerie.

[Lex Luthier]

Sort of interesting to me that they make a 2-1/2" and 2-3/4" in addition to the 3" Gendarmerie.

It makes me wonder about various pistol laws in Europe. I bet Italy, Norway, Germany, & Austria all have quirky requirements.

[fly out]

It makes me wonder about various pistol laws in Europe. I bet Italy, Norway, Germany, & Austria all have quirky requirements.

I was thinking contracting requirements, but that's equally possible.

In the course of puttering around the interwebz, I see that they used to make a "swappable" 9mm cylinder.

[OlongJohnson]

Wikipedia says: (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manurhin_MR_73)


The revolver can be converted to 9×19mm Parabellum with a supplied replacement cylinder, however, 9×19mm Parabellum under French law has the status of ammunition of war. Thus, from the early 1980s, production was limited to the versions in .38 Special/.357 Magnum.

[Half Moon]

They make a 3-inch gun.

You might enjoy the process of importing one. Not cheap or easy, but can be done legally.

https://www.chapuis-armes.com/en/manurhin-guns/

Or you could make it easier, though probably not cheaper, and go to one of the existing US importers:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/search-results.cfm?qs_cat=&Quick_Search_Keyword=kebco

https://jjperodeau.com/store/?model_number=HA03903-HA03571

As of a couple months back Perodeau was out of 3" and had none in the pipeline but Kebco lists 3" guns frequently (though I'm not seeing any right now...)

[OlongJohnson]

Sights are LPA, so there may be drop-in options for the rear blade, even if you have to buy a whole assembly:

http://www.lpasights.com/en/products/txt0407/

I'm starting to ask myself how much 115gr Blazer Brass do I have to sell to get one of these.

[JCN]

Sights are LPA, so there may be drop-in options for the rear blade, even if you have to buy a whole assembly:

http://www.lpasights.com/en/products/txt0407/

I'm starting to ask myself how much 115gr Blazer Brass do I have to sell to get one of these.

Hmm. If it’d take a standard SW optic mount it becomes more attractive...

[RevolverRob]

Hmm. If it’d take a standard SW optic mount it becomes more attractive...

I don't think it does. The MR73 rear sight does not appear to interchange, it looks to me that the sight slides into a dovetail from the rear of the gun and then is cross-pinned in place. As opposed to the two-screw into the sight channel setup of Smith and Wesson.

What OJ was pointing out was that the MR73 rear sight is made by LPA for Manurhin. So it may share some parts with the Smith and Wesson rear sight. A call or email to LPA may determine if that is true. If so the blacked out rear target blade they make for Smiths would be a nice swap for anyone who got the silly two-dot rear sight.

[OlongJohnson]

Also,


20 March 2019
Beretta Holding SA prend une participation majoritaire stratégique dans la société française Chapuis Armes SAS.

"Beretta Holding SA takes a strategic majority stake in the French company Chapuis Armes SAS."

So it seems reasonable to expect this to be kinda like Sako/Tikka going forward.

https://www.chapuis-armes.com/en/press-release/

[Tuvia]

I recently got a new MR73. I am not nearly as prolific a shooter as many of the other folks here, so I am probably not going to be able to do a 2000 round challenge with the gun in any kind of timely manner.

As far as initial impressions, it’s noticeably more accurate at 20 yards with the same batch of my reloads in my no dash 686, which itself is pretty good in the accuracy department. The guns were pretty well matched at 7 and 10 yards. The MR73 build quality is excellent, and it has very little play in the yoke/crane or cylinder. This is a new manufacture Chapuis gun, so I have no idea how it stacks up against the original Manurhin guns, but I am impressed examining it in person when compared to older Smiths.

The trigger pull is pretty darn nice, and tuneable for weight by adjusting both the mainspring tension, and the tension on the rebound slide. I would say that double action is about like a good Smith DA trigger (but with a shorter trigger stroke), so pretty nice, but for $3000+, I consider a good trigger mandatory.

The thing that is annoying to me is that there are no additional sight options, and the trigger comes grooved from the factory, which is not something that I like, personally. It seems like lousy sight and grip options are pretty much standard for most revolvers, and it’s not exactly like there are enough MR73s being made to justify a robust aftermarket for it, although I am hopeful Beretta acting as an importer might change that.

I had the grooves in the trigger polished out, and re-heat colored the trigger in my oven. I also put a couple coats of orange paint on the front sight, and blacked out the rear sight dots. Hopefully, I will get the holster I had made for it in soon (Rusty Sherrick has a mold for the gun, and his lead time was about 8 weeks), and I can try doing some holster work. I also ordered some of the non-Trausch grips for this gun, as well as my MR88 from a place in France (https://armt-creations.monsite-orange.fr/), so we’ll see how these grips are when they arrive.

Overall, I would say that it’s a very nice gun, but I personally feel like the super high price premium is maybe a bit too much. However because my gripes are about the ergonomics of the gun rather than any other flaws, I want to shoot it some more with the grip, sight, and trigger tweaks before I say that it’s too expensive.

As far as grips I got these for my MR38. I got the open back but they make them in closed back also. I can't see anyone needing anything else.

http://us.nill-shop.com/MR73-MR22-Frame-Rhomlas-fi.-gr.open-back-sim.-Ph.Hemphill

[Tuvia]

i
s this a better value proposition than a S&W or Ruger revolver tuned and customized by any number of master gunsmiths? If we removed the "story" that goes along with the MR73, what makes it worth north of 3k?


That seems to be a generic question when it comes to these or the Korth. You can have a Smith customized but at the end of the day it will still be a Smith.

The MR is an exceptional revolver and definitely worth the premium.

[RevolverRob]

i

That seems to be a generic question when it comes to these or the Korth. You can have a Smith customized but at the end of the day it will still be a Smith.

The MR is an exceptional revolver and definitely worth the premium.

Exactly.

Someone will also have to give me a list of 'master gunsmiths' who are actively accepting work on Ruger and Smith firearms.

You can have a gun tuned up these days. But having an heirloom grade revolver built is getting more difficult. Bowen hasn't accepted DA revolver work for a few years. And folks like TK and Pinnacle custom build nice working/competition revolvers. But nothing approaching what a MR73 or Korth is.

[JCN]

You can have a gun tuned up these days. But having an heirloom grade revolver built is getting more difficult. Bowen hasn't accepted DA revolver work for a few years. And folks like TK and Pinnacle custom build nice working/competition revolvers. But nothing approaching what a MR73 or Korth is.

TK and Pinnacle might be more like Porsche.
MR73 and Korth might be more like Ferrari.

Usage patterns might also follow more like that too.

[OlongJohnson]

As far as grips I got these for my MR38. I got the open back but they make them in closed back also. I can't see anyone needing anything else.

http://us.nill-shop.com/MR73-MR22-Frame-Rhomlas-fi.-gr.open-back-sim.-Ph.Hemphill

Not really a fan of that design, for several reasons. I'd be working up something else.



The MR is an exceptional revolver and definitely worth the premium.

The more I understand about the technical content of these things, the more I think that may be true.

[Doc_Glock]

But nothing approaching what a MR73 or Korth is.

Which is the better proposition? MR or Korth?

[RevolverRob]

TK and Pinnacle might be more like Porsche.
MR73 and Korth might be more like Ferrari.

Usage patterns might also follow more like that too.

TK and Pinnacle are track tuned Hondas and Mustangs.

Can't say about the Korth, but the Manurhin is much more Porsche like. Premium price but premium quality and also extremely reliable day-in-day-out even when run hard. We're talking about a gun specified to run tens of thousands of full power 158-grain .357 Magnum without issue. They factory proof them at 30% of CIP max of .357 Magnum and guarantee them to not bulge or blow up at 2x max pressure.

There isn't a Smith that will survive that abuse, let alone keep running after.

[Half Moon]

TK and Pinnacle are track tuned Hondas and Mustangs.

Can't say about the Korth, but the Manurhin is much more Porsche like. Premium price but premium quality and also extremely reliable day-in-day-out even when run hard. We're talking about a gun specified to run tens of thousands of full power 158-grain .357 Magnum without issue. They factory proof them at 30% of CIP max of .357 Magnum and guarantee them to not bulge or blow up at 2x max pressure.

There isn't a Smith that will survive that abuse, let alone keep running after.

Don't necessarily disagree with the overall gist but the 30% over pressure is CIP standard for proofing. So, if sold in Europe, Smith, Colt, whatever should survive it, a time or two. The question is lifetime durability. Assuming same quality of materials and construction, as historically pre-Chapuis, we know Manurhins should survive a steady diet of full power loads much longer than a Smith, etc.

[JCN]

TK and Pinnacle are track tuned Hondas and Mustangs.

Can't say about the Korth, but the Manurhin is much more Porsche like. Premium price but premium quality and also extremely reliable day-in-day-out even when run hard. We're talking about a gun specified to run tens of thousands of full power 158-grain .357 Magnum without issue. They factory proof them at 30% of CIP max of .357 Magnum and guarantee them to not bulge or blow up at 2x max pressure.

There isn't a Smith that will survive that abuse, let alone keep running after.

Hmm. Maybe then modified Smiths might be more like Corvettes versus Manurhin’s Porsche?

[Tuvia]

I like the Korth better. The Ratzeberg models are very nice as well as the new ones made in Lollar. I wanted a dedicated .38 special target gun to shoot wadcutters so I got the MR38 plus I just wanted one to have one. Now when You get into Janz territory it's a whole other ball game.

[RAM Engineer]

What's the speedloader situation on these?

[jh9]

What's the speedloader situation on these?

I think JCN will dremel out the cylinder for moonclips pretty cheap.

[45dotACP]

TK and Pinnacle are track tuned Hondas and Mustangs.

Can't say about the Korth, but the Manurhin is much more Porsche like. Premium price but premium quality and also extremely reliable day-in-day-out even when run hard. We're talking about a gun specified to run tens of thousands of full power 158-grain .357 Magnum without issue. They factory proof them at 30% of CIP max of .357 Magnum and guarantee them to not bulge or blow up at 2x max pressure.

There isn't a Smith that will survive that abuse, let alone keep running after.

Out of curiosity, and not to make a tasteless comparison, but how does something like a Ruger GP hold up durability wise against something like a MR73?

I mean...it's basically like comparing a honda civic to Porsche...but my understanding is that if you want a gun to regularly run magnums through, you'd be hard pressed to wear out a Ruger before you gave yourself crippling arthritis.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[mtnbkr]

Out of curiosity, and not to make a tasteless comparison, but how does something like a Ruger GP hold up durability wise against something like a MR73?

I mean...it's basically like comparing a honda civic to Porsche...but my understanding is that if you want a gun to regularly run magnums through, you'd be hard pressed to wear out a Ruger before you gave yourself crippling arthritis.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I tried to wear out both a GP100 Ruger Redhawk 44mag. Couldn't do it. Both guns got mostly mag loads, and heavy ones at that (180gr @ 1300 for the GP and 310 @ 1200 for the Redhawk). I gave up before they did.

FWIW, I went and did some reading on the MR73 and see why it's held in high esteem and why it could cost more. I'm unconvinced that it's *worth* that much, but I do see what differentiates it from a S&W, Colt, or Ruger.

Chris

[OlongJohnson]

Out of curiosity, and not to make a tasteless comparison, but how does something like a Ruger GP hold up durability wise against something like a MR73?

I mean...it's basically like comparing a honda civic to Porsche...but my understanding is that if you want a gun to regularly run magnums through, you'd be hard pressed to wear out a Ruger before you gave yourself crippling arthritis.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

I'm thinking the comparison is more like a Suburban 2500 vs a Land Cruiser. Both are heavy duty, durable vehicles that will last a very long time if used and maintained properly. One is a little smaller and lighter and just nicer.

[Half Moon]

What's the speedloader situation on these?

Speedloaders designed for Smith K frames seem to work well with the basic wood profile grips. How they do with the Trausch or Nil grips - ???

[Scal]

The manager of a shooting range that rents guns says told me he gets maybe 20,000 rounds out of a GP100 before it’s dead. Given how most people in this location who rent guns are probably doing it for the “lol, big boom” aspect of things rather than actually wanting to shoot groups, I suspect that the vast majority of the 20,000 rounds are 357s. It’s not the six figure round count that issued MR73s have gotten up to, but considering that most range rental guns are mostly shot with garbage tier ammo, not cleaned until they stop running, and mostly abused by people who don’t know that you shouldn’t flip cylinders closed and god knows what else they get up to, that’s honestly not too bad.

Also, considering the easy ability for end users of Rugers to do work on their own guns, the factory and aftermarket support available, and the likelihood that shooting mostly 38 with the occasional midrange 357 loads will probably extend the lifespan of a gun to multiples of those reported 20,000 rounds, not to mention the fact that you are looking at about 15-25% of the price of an MR73, I don’t fault anyone for getting a Ruger and driving on.

Before I plonked down a bunch of cash on my MR73, I browsed some French gun forums with a translation app. The consensus there is that while these guns are up to shoot lots of full power 357 ammo, you will still bulge chambers with double charges (I think that what happens is that the chamber tends to develop a divot inside the chamber opposite the cylinder notch next to the chamber without full on failure of the cylinder, but translation apps are not that good for me to be exactly sure about that) or shooting max pressure ammo with severely leaded throats/chambers will do the same thing. There also appear to be occasional issues with small parts breakage, especially the hand springs getting worn out.

There are also lots of people on those forums who complain about MR73s being too expensive and not really any better than Smith and Wesson revolvers for twice to three times the price, too. If I ever win the lottery, I would consider getting a new MR73 or two for destructive testing to actually see exactly what’s gun forum rumor and what is fact. It’s definitely a damn nice gun, and you can see that no corners were cut during the manufacture of it, but at the end of the day, it’s a machine that can and will eventually break down.

[OlongJohnson]

There is a difference between a GP that's been taken out of the box and to the firing line, and one that's been thoroughly prepped. The way Ruger ships them, they are full of rough surfaces and burred edges. Do "everything" to them, and I believe they should last quite a bit longer. As long as you keep them clean enough and don't do obviously abusive things to them.

Also, flame cutting is flame cutting. 125-grain .357s will do it, no matter how big and strong the parts are that they are cutting.

---------------------

ETA: Interestingly, the 4-inch Gendarmerie with a full underlug is 3 ounces lighter than a current Model 19 Classic 4-inch with a partial lug.

[Half Moon]

There is a difference between a GP that's been taken out of the box and to the firing line, and one that's been thoroughly prepped. The way Ruger ships them, they are full of rough surfaces and burred edges. Do "everything" to them, and I believe they should last quite a bit longer. As long as you keep them clean enough and don't do obviously abusive things to them.

Also, flame cutting is flame cutting. 125-grain .357s will do it, no matter how big and strong the parts are that they are cutting.

There's definitely a point there. Everything I've read says the GIGN round counts were with Norma 158 grain 357. Would the counts have been less with 125's? Wouldn't surprise me though I'd still bet on longer than a lot of other designs.

[RevolverRob]

There's definitely a point there. Everything I've read says the GIGN round counts were with Norma 158 grain 357. Would the counts have been less with 125's? Wouldn't surprise me though I'd still bet on longer than a lot of other designs.

Same here. A steady diet of 110 or 125 barn burners will kill any .357 revolver. Some sooner than others, but eventually they all succumb to flame cutting.

My understanding from my research is Norma 158-grain SJHPs and later JHPs were the normal load out, 180-grain JHPs and Flat Points were used in the 8" guns sometimes. But I haven't found any indication that anyone using an MR73 as an issue weapon ran anything lighter.

[OlongJohnson]

I noticed that Chapuis' promo photos feature ammo that looks like the 158gr Geco FMJ I have, which I find somewhat objectionable in .357 due to its lack of crimp.

Based on the "Vista Outdoors of Europe" theory, that's likely what it is.

https://geco-munition.de/en/geco-world/ruag.html

[RevolverRob]

I noticed that Chapuis' promo photos feature ammo that looks like the 158gr Geco FMJ I have, which I find somewhat objectionable in .357 due to its lack of crimp.

Based on the "Vista Outdoors of Europe" theory, that's likely what it is.

https://geco-munition.de/en/geco-world/ruag.html

Yea Geco/Ruag now owns half the ammo companies in Europe including Norma.

I want to think that somewhere I read they originally used ammo made by Lapua, but switched to Norma after Lapua discontinued the .357 Magnum loading. I cannot find it in my research notes though, so that could just be something I made up.

[Tuvia]

you'd be hard pressed to wear out a Ruger before you gave yourself crippling arthritis.

That is definitely true for you and me. I can barely get 100 rounds of .357 magnum through my Janz at one range session before I am all done.
The GIGN shoot 150 rounds of full house magnums every day. They were stretching the frames on the Smiths. The MR73 will handle that no problem.

I went and shot 100 rounds in my MR38 today and was getting lots of nice clusters in the ten ring at 17 Yards. ( All my local indoor range goes to).

You have to own one of these and shoot it awhile and then You will know where the extra money went.

[OlongJohnson]

Okay, so I looked, and the last used Lipsey's 5-inch .357 half-lug GP to sell on GB was $500 more than I paid for mine. I probably have some .380 I could flip for 5-6x what I paid... The Manurhin importer before Beretta took over (Kebco) hasn't raised his price (yet). This is starting to seem like a reasonable thing to do.

[awp_101]

It seems like lousy sight and grip options are pretty much standard for most revolvers, and it’s not exactly like there are enough MR73s being made to justify a robust aftermarket for it, although I am hopeful Beretta acting as an importer might change that.

Stag is an option from somebody: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/revolvers/-357-magnum-revolvers/manurhin-mr73-with-stag-grips.cfm?gun_id=101595821

[jtcarm]

The ol Ruger Hawkeye (pistol, not rifle) will be going on the block soon, along with a couple of K-frames.

I’m still torn between the Manurhin and Korth.

At least prices haven’t gone apeshit like everything else.

[Half Moon]

Stag is an option from somebody: https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/revolvers/-357-magnum-revolvers/manurhin-mr73-with-stag-grips.cfm?gun_id=101595821

Kebco and JJ Perodeau both have a variety of grip options they resell. If I recall right Kebco tends to sell more exotic (bone, stag, etc) and Perodeau sells wood in a few patterns (effectively: magna, oversized target, and Olympic target styles). Nil has a few styles. And there are the Trausch rubber grips in target and carry styles. So options are out there if not as broad a selection for the perfect fit as say a Smith.

[awp_101]

At least prices haven’t gone apeshit like everything else.
Only until the collectors decide the pre-Beretta imports are more special.

[OlongJohnson]

Only until the collectors decide the pre-Beretta imports are more special.

I'm waffling on that. I talked with Kebco yesterday. Their import marks are laser engraved, polished, and reblued by the factory (Manurhin). Just says KEBCO HANOVER PA. Looks pretty clean. But still a Kebco billboard on the right side of the barrel. Beretta's marketing shots were careful to put the engraving in a dark portion without reflection so it's difficult to see the engraving, but it still says Beretta USA - Accokeek, MD. A bigger billboard. Trying to decide which set of marks is less objectionable.

Unfortunately, Kebco is all sold out of 4.25-inch guns, and not expecting to be able to get more.

[RevolverRob]

As far as grips I got these for my MR38. I got the open back but they make them in closed back also. I can't see anyone needing anything else.

http://us.nill-shop.com/MR73-MR22-Frame-Rhomlas-fi.-gr.open-back-sim.-Ph.Hemphill

To add to what Tuvia posted here - Nill makes a lot of variants for their grips. They aren't well listed/cataloged on their website. Virtually everything they make can be had with/without finger grooves, stippling, open/closed backstrap, flared bases, right/left/ambi, with/without speed loader cuts, etc.

It's easier to order from MacTec - https://www.mactecsales.com/MR73_MR22_s/1998.htm - Those guys have the Nill catalog and understanding of working with Nill to get you what you want.

[Tuvia]

I'm waffling on that. I talked with Kebco yesterday. Their import marks are laser engraved, polished, and reblued by the factory (Manurhin). Just says KEBCO HANOVER PA. Looks pretty clean. But still a Kebco billboard on the right side of the barrel. Beretta's marketing shots were careful to put the engraving in a dark portion without reflection so it's difficult to see the engraving, but it still says Beretta USA - Accokeek, MD. A bigger billboard. Trying to decide which set of marks is less objectionable.

Unfortunately, Kebco is all sold out of 4.25-inch guns, and not expecting to be able to get more.

I have bought several guns from Ken Great Guy. The perrideau imports have a much bigger import mark. Too bad they won't just let them put it under the grips.

[Half Moon]

I have bought several guns from Ken Great Guy. The perrideau imports have a much bigger import mark. Too bad they won't just let them put it under the grips.

I've got at least one re-imported revolver where the importer is marked on the underside of the barrel above the ejector rod. Very innocuous unless you go looking for it. Wonder if that doesn't meet current regs?

[jtcarm]

I've got at least one re-imported revolver where the importer is marked on the underside of the barrel above the ejector rod. Very innocuous unless you go looking for it. Wonder if that doesn't meet current regs?

The regs were written by the same guy who designed Rugers waning labels.

[Scal]

I was told by Ken that in this case, Chapuis adds the import marks. Not sure if it’s a Chapuis thing, but he says that he can’t do much different as far as making a less obtrusive mark. Also, when you buy from Kebco, confirm the rollmark. Ken has another company that does importation besides Kebco- Polaris Logistics, in Sterling, VA.

[jtcarm]

I'm waffling on that. I talked with Kebco yesterday. Their import marks are laser engraved, polished, and reblued by the factory (Manurhin). Just says KEBCO HANOVER PA. Looks pretty clean. But still a Kebco billboard on the right side of the barrel. Beretta's marketing shots were careful to put the engraving in a dark portion without reflection so it's difficult to see the engraving, but it still says Beretta USA - Accokeek, MD. A bigger billboard. Trying to decide which set of marks is less objectionable.

Unfortunately, Kebco is all sold out of 4.25-inch guns, and not expecting to be able to get more.

Says here they have them in 4”:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/pistols/manurhin/brand-new-manurhin-mr73-357-38-in-4-quot-6-quot-barrels.cfm?gun_id=101616077

Of course, it’s a given that when a gun retailer lists an item for sale on the web, they absolutely positively have it in stock[emoji849]

[OlongJohnson]

Says here they have them in 4”:

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/pistols/manurhin/brand-new-manurhin-mr73-357-38-in-4-quot-6-quot-barrels.cfm?gun_id=101616077

Of course, it’s a given that when a gun retailer lists an item for sale on the web, they absolutely positively have it in stock[emoji849]

I'd be particularly interested in the 4.25-inch with the Patridge front sight. The 4.25 is not the same as the 4-inch. (Just ask Maple Syrup Actual.) The 4-inch barrel looks slightly stubby to my eye, without being a sweet 3-inch. And the ramp front sight with the full underlug makes it look oversize. Ramp sight with a half lug on a 4.25-inch Model 19 is great, but MR73 doesn't have a half lug version.

The 5.25-inch looks just a little long, proportionally. I might not think that with a half-lug version. On the other hand, it may look better balanced when I put a grip on it that fits my big mitts. Current plan is to carve some walnut to match the Hogue NFG GP grip that I've modified. It's quite a bit bigger than a K frame round butt.

[Half Moon]

The regs were written by the same guy who designed Rugers waning labels.

Ah, yes, those guys...

[awp_101]

So I've been putting some thought into this. A $3K+ revolver is a serious commitment by itself but if a person could then afford to pick up a piece of pre-ban ivory big enough for a nice set of grips, that's next level flexing right there. It was popular to have a steer head or Mexican Eagle carved into ivory SAA and 1911 grips so why not have an Imperial Eagle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Imperial_Eagle) carved into one grip to add another layer? The French/Italian/Roman/Napoleonic threads of symbolism just weave themselves though the layers.

American Holly, one of the synthetic ivory replacements or linen Micarta would probably be just as good and certainly more attainable but the ivory angle sure makes for a pleasant daydream...

[Half Moon]

So I've been putting some thought into this. A $3K+ revolver is a serious commitment by itself but if a person could then afford to pick up a piece of pre-ban ivory big enough for a nice set of grips, that's next level flexing right there. It was popular to have a steer head or Mexican Eagle carved into ivory SAA and 1911 grips so why not have an Imperial Eagle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Imperial_Eagle) carved into one grip to add another layer? The French/Italian/Roman/Napoleonic threads of symbolism just weave themselves though the layers.

American Holly, one of the synthetic ivory replacements or linen Micarta would probably be just as good and certainly more attainable but the ivory angle sure makes for a pleasant daydream...

Not to enable (TOTALLY enabling) but one of Kebco's options is smooth giraffe bone. Not sure how well it carves and still not ivory, but...

[OlongJohnson]

Lotsa people would mistake the Imperial Eagle for the Nazi Eagle.

[Joe in PNG]

Marianne clutching a sword would be my vote.

[Inkwell 41]

As I understand it, it's from the heat treat. It's more gold than bronze in person.

Agree. I believe that it is similar to the straw color of commercial, pre-war Lugers.

[OlongJohnson]

First Beretta-imported MR73 on GB:

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/900229288

Pricing suggests that Bud's or KyGunCo might have some attractive offers down the road.

[LittleLebowski]

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin-mr73-sport-5-25/

They won't be cheap...

I really want one, but not like this. Not like this.

[Ed L]

I bought a NIB MR-73 in the summer of 2019. I hate to be the dissenting voice, but I had issues with it. This is just my experience.

Something was not right with the gun I had because sometimes when I would pull the trigger and the cylinder would lock up in the middle of turning. If I released the trigger and then pulled it again it would complete its cycle.

Next the gun seemed to be out of time, I was getting some off center primer hits and failures to detonate. It also seemed to be shaving lead.

Back at this time 2019, there was no one in the US who serviced the gun. (I am not sure how Beretta will handle any warrantee work for the guns that it sells). I could not even find a qualified gunsmith in the US who would work on the gun.


I took a very experienced revolver enthusiast friend with me and let him shoot it. He did not experience any issues with the gun. He actually witnessed me having the problems with the gun but could not replicate it when he was shooting it. He also let someone else shoot it who experienced similar problems. But it worked for him. So he now owns it.

Attached is a picture of some of the off centered primer hits that I experienced:

71101

[OlongJohnson]

I'd be curious to know whether those off-center strikes were due to the cylinder turning too far or not far enough? Did you survey brass that did fire? Was there a random distribution of firing pin contact locations, and just the ones all the way on the edge didn't fire, or was it an "either/or" scenario?

Quality problems are what I'm worried about. I don't buy for a second that just because something is expensive and made in Europe, it will be right. I have a remarkable record of getting the defective one of anything. I have read a bunch since this thread started, and did find one person over on (I think it was) the blue forum, or maybe one of the generic hunting/shooting forums, who said he'd looked at several recent-production MR73s over the past few years and found issues with all of them.

It's entirely possible that Chapuis is making sure they are pretty but letting some other things slip, since it is no longer selling guns to a switched-on agency with credentialed armorers who will check everything thoroughly and send it back with the power of the government and the weight of all the gun's history and prestige behind them and demand that it be made right.

Also, with Beretta's recent record of shipping obviously defective 92s to customers and a bunch more being marginally manufactured but recoverable into serviceable condition with a little TLC, I don't trust Beretta USA to be the gatekeepers of quality. (And I mean over several years, not just last year, although I started the thread on dovetailed-sight DAOs and then sent mine back when it got here.) I'm also unimpressed with their shotgun stock squishy parts being made with polymers that can't withstand sunscreen and DEET. Because when would either of those get on a shotgun? Basically, the evidence available to me doesn't support betting $3k on, "It's Beretta, it will be fine."

I'd love it if e_stern would come in here and tell us a little about how logistics of parts support, warranty, etc. is intended to run. Will they have capacity to fix guns in the U.S.? Will parts even be available, or will returning a gun that's not right result in it going in one of two buckets?

1) Send it back and say it's in spec, just shoot it.
2) Decide they can't send it back with a straight face, and replace it with another gun that could have unknown issues of its own.
Does Chapuis have capacity to fix guns? Can Beretta even send a gun back to France and then re-import it?

Is Beretta making any investments in improving Chapuis' production and leveling up quality?

Are there plans to bring in any other guns, such as the 4.25 (necessary for Canada vs. 4 inch), the 3 or 2.75 inch, etc?

My other 5-inch .357 and some ammo are on GB, so this is more than idle internet chatter. My goal isn't to throw stones at Beretta, either. I love my 1301, my Tikkas, and my older 92D Cent.

[Scal]

I’d like those questions answered, too, OlongJohnson. I *really* like revolvers, and they’re one of the few kinds of guns that really get my “Passion of the Gun” juices flowing anymore. I had the money and didn’t want to wait any longer to get one. I sure as hell don’t expect other people to do that. My MR73 shoots pretty well, and it also has no issues with carry-up or timing, but that’s a small sample size.

Ed L, I sincerely appreciate you posting that info here. I wish that someone who knows how to wrench on revolvers could have taken a look at that gun and seen what the heck was causing those issues. I think that having as much data as possible out there, especially if someone has problems with a gun with a notoriously small amount of in circulation stateside is a good thing. I appreciate the P-F hivemind thinking seriously about this stuff.

[Inkwell 41]

Beretta USA and Manurhin USA (didn’t know that existed) posted earlier today on Beretta USA’s Instagram account that Beretta will be servicing the MR73 in Accokeek.

[OlongJohnson]

That doesn't really help someone without a login for Instagram. Seems like it would be logical to post information about your company on your company's own web site, where people can just go find it without having to be active on some other service.

Just sayin'.

[LittleLebowski]

I bought a NIB MR-73 in the summer of 2019. I hate to be the dissenting voice, but I had issues with it. This is just my experience.

Something was not right with the gun I had because sometimes when I would pull the trigger and the cylinder would lock up in the middle of turning. If I released the trigger and then pulled it again it would complete its cycle.

Next the gun seemed to be out of time, I was getting some off center primer hits and failures to detonate. It also seemed to be shaving lead.

Back at this time 2019, there was no one in the US who serviced the gun. (I am not sure how Beretta will handle any warrantee work for the guns that it sells). I could not even find a qualified gunsmith in the US who would work on the gun.


I took a very experienced revolver enthusiast friend with me and let him shoot it. He did not experience any issues with the gun. He actually witnessed me having the problems with the gun but could not replicate it when he was shooting it. He also let someone else shoot it who experienced similar problems. But it worked for him. So he now owns it.

Attached is a picture of some of the off centered primer hits that I experienced:

71101

$400, CASH.

[SeriousStudent]

I am buying one of these. Either at the local Beretta Gallery, or I'd honestly love one of those 3" Gendarmerie models.

But the 5.25" Sportsman model would be tremendously fun to slay deer and hogs with, using a bespoke leather chest rig.

And I am DEFINITELY bringing it to Revolver Roundup this year. :)

[WobblyPossum]

If they were offering a 3” one, I would have already been shot with it when my girlfriend learned how much it cost.

[OlongJohnson]

If they were offering a 3” one, I would have already been shot with it when my girlfriend learned how much it cost.

Kebco lists 3-inch in stock, I believe.

[Inkwell 41]

That doesn't really help someone without a login for Instagram. Seems like it would be logical to post information about your company on your company's own web site, where people can just go find it without having to be active on some other service.

Just sayin'.


These are pretty new to Beretta, maybe the information is coming to their website, but just not there yet. Just sayin’.

[OlongJohnson]

I am buying one of these. Either at the local Beretta Gallery, or I'd honestly love one of those 3" Gendarmerie models.

But the 5.25" Sportsman model would be tremendously fun to slay deer and hogs with, using a bespoke leather chest rig.

And I am DEFINITELY bringing it to Revolver Roundup this year. :)

I'll be interested to read your review when you inspect some real, live production guns. I'd be driving over to the Gallery to check them out if I was in DFW. Checked with Collectors and Briley, and they aren't bringing in any inventory just for stock.

I have had a 5-inch Lipsey's half-lug GP100 that's my placeholder for an outdoor gun when I get to where I can wander around the West again. (Like, somewhere with mountains, and where your clothes don't smell like mold just from going for a walk outside with the breeze blowing.) I've basically settled on the 5.25 Sportsman as replacing the GP in the same use case if I go down this road.

[WobblyPossum]

Kebco lists 3-inch in stock, I believe.

I know. One will likely be a treat to myself once I bump up another two pay grades. It would also be awesome if the current ones were still coming with the additional 9mm cylinder. I’ve only seen that with older guns.

[Ed L]

I'd be curious to know whether those off-center strikes were due to the cylinder turning too far or not far enough? Did you survey brass that did fire? Was there a random distribution of firing pin contact locations, and just the ones all the way on the edge didn't fire, or was it an "either/or" scenario?

I don't remember if I looked at the other ejected cases. The picture illustrates some rounds that failed to fire do to off center hits that I had singled out to photograph. Typically I could try a round again and it would fire. As I wrote, sometimes I would pull the trigger and the cylinder would lock up as it was turning. But if I released pressure and pulled it again it would fire.

[jh9]

That doesn't really help someone without a login for Instagram. Seems like it would be logical to post information about your company on your company's own web site, where people can just go find it without having to be active on some other service.

Eh. It's irritating, but it's also understandable why they do it. It's easier to just put things in one place, and you go where your audience is.

I don't InstaFaceTube, but the draw is having your content put in front of people without them having to "go find it." Gun people browsing TwitchBook completely unaware that Beretta is importing these things will have it put in front of them, albeit subject to the whims of The Algorithm. And as The Algorithm gets smarter, the tiny subset that will plunk down $3k for a European revolver will have it front and center. Meanwhile the others will have whatever Beretta fits their demographic's optimal price point show up at the same place on their screen

Web fora like PF that are focused on one specific type of content have mostly evaporated or gotten absorbed into a network of fora that are increasingly owned by like one Canadian company. Anything that isn't on the TokGrams is eventually going to be on whatever social media type service SMC is putting together now that they own hkpro, and 1911forum, etc. There's a shrinking number of places for anyone to hear about it outside the Walled Tech Gardens. So might as well announce it there in the first place.

[LittleLebowski]

Eh. It's irritating, but it's also understandable why they do it. It's easier to just put things in one place, and you go where your audience is.

I don't InstaFaceTube, but the draw is having your content put in front of people without them having to "go find it." Gun people browsing TwitchBook completely unaware that Beretta is importing these things will have it put in front of them, albeit subject to the whims of The Algorithm. And as The Algorithm gets smarter, the tiny subset that will plunk down $3k for a European revolver will have it front and center. Meanwhile the others will have whatever Beretta fits their demographic's optimal price point show up at the same place on their screen

Web fora like PF that are focused on one specific type of content have mostly evaporated or gotten absorbed into a network of fora that are increasingly owned by like one Canadian company. Anything that isn't on the TokGrams is eventually going to be on whatever social media type service SMC is putting together now that they own hkpro, and 1911forum, etc. There's a shrinking number of places for anyone to hear about it outside the Walled Tech Gardens. So might as well announce it there in the first place.

Don’t worry, sooner or later; FB and Instagram will be gun free. Count on it.

[jh9]

Don’t worry, sooner or later; FB and Instagram will be gun free. Count on it.

And when they do you'll be ready to pounce, having cornered the market on the gun internet. The gunternet.

I see what you're scheming. :cool:

[ccmdfd]

Don’t worry, sooner or later; FB and Instagram will be gun free. Count on it.

More gun free zones!

They are soooo helpful.

[LittleLebowski]

And when they do you'll be ready to pounce, having cornered the market on the gun internet. The gunternet.

I see what you're scheming. :cool:

Pretty much :D

[OlongJohnson]

I bought a NIB MR-73 in the summer of 2019. I hate to be the dissenting voice, but I had issues with it. This is just my experience.

Something was not right with the gun I had because sometimes when I would pull the trigger and the cylinder would lock up in the middle of turning. If I released the trigger and then pulled it again it would complete its cycle.

Next the gun seemed to be out of time, I was getting some off center primer hits and failures to detonate. It also seemed to be shaving lead.

Back at this time 2019, there was no one in the US who serviced the gun. (I am not sure how Beretta will handle any warrantee work for the guns that it sells). I could not even find a qualified gunsmith in the US who would work on the gun.

Googling for MR73 problems brings up several cases of timing/carry-up issues with Chapuis guns. Not really much else, unless you count the guy who posted YT of himself continuing to fire the thing with "professional reloads from his gun club" in Australia after it was failing to fire when the hammer fell in DA. He ended up with additional problems, including severe flame cutting of the forcing cone.

One guy did diagnose his gun. Re-bent the hand spring and reported that cured the carry up issues. He reported he was able to buy some parts from Chapuis direct. Unfortunately, no follow-up with, "I got the parts in and this is how it all worked out in the end."

If it's as simple as a batch of crappy hand springs, that's easy to swap out. One set of pics I saw on a forum included the hand itself out of the gun, and at least that one could definitely stand a bit of slickening. Someone made the point that it's a really simple part and could probably be remade (thicker, etc.) if needed by a normal earth person who is good with tools.

Interesting that the hand spring may be an issue, as one of the few engineering changes was a move from the original clothespin-style hand spring to the newer leaf spring style. I suppose another possible issue could be if the clothespin-style cylinder stop spring was underperforming like the original hand spring did.

zeleny has some quality sideplate-off pics here: https://larvatus.livejournal.com/342060.html

Interesting also that on the newer gun in Zeleny's photos, the bolt (S&W terminology: bolt, Manurhin terminology: cylinder release button) has changed from a machined part to some kind of casting. Kind of rough looking for a MIM part, but it would be difficult to make it with a conventional casting. That is one of the things the Australian guy broke, so there could be smoke/fire there.

[FrankB]

MIM internals on a $3,000 PLUS revolver??? I say “Plus” because your chances of getting one at MSRP are about as good as a Colt Python below $2,000. In addition, the sucker only holds 6 rounds. My 686+ revolvers hold 7, and my M627 holds 8 rounds. Those are tactical numbers.

ETA: I don’t care if my S&W’s have some MIM parts, but they didn’t cost $3,000, and parts are readily available.

[jh9]

MIM internals on a $3,000 PLUS revolver??? I say “Plus” because your chances of getting one at MSRP are about as good as a Colt Python below $2,000. In addition, the sucker only holds 6 rounds. My 686+ revolvers hold 7, and my M627 holds 8 rounds. Those are tactical numbers.

ETA: I don’t care if my S&W’s have some MIM parts, but they didn’t cost $3,000, and parts are readily available.

It's only MIM if it comes from the Springfield region of Massachusetts. Otherwise it's just sparkling cast.

[Scal]

One good thing (I think, anywho) about the latest version of the hands on the MR73 is that they have a spring detent on the right side of the hand to keep it from bowing out and causing timing issues, even with some wear, so the hand itself is probably not really likely to need replacement. The hand spring would probably be a good spare part to keep, if one was going to bother. The older generation hand springs reportedly caused their own carry-up issues in rapid fire, and replacing an old model clothespin spring with a new one requires modification or replacement of the sideplate.

Hopefully Beretta will sell spare parts to the general public and do service on guns, even on the older MR73s that aren’t Beretta marked. Hastings Distribution https://www.hastingsdistribution.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=60 has a lot of spare MR73 parts that they can order from Chapuis. Bring your wallet. I don’t know if these arrangements are going to continue or not with other importers and places supplying parts, or if anything in the US is going have to go through Beretta USA now.

[LittleLebowski]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

[OlongJohnson]

Hansohn?

[LittleLebowski]

Hansohn?

They will handle the transfer.

[Scal]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

It absolutely wasn’t, but you’ll very likely dig the gun anyways.

[LittleLebowski]

It absolutely wasn’t, but you’ll very likely dig the gun anyways.

Banned.

[Lex Luthier]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

Well you could certainly do worse.

[Half Moon]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

Well, heck, I'll enable: while prices on mid to low grade firearms are soaring, the upper end has mostly stayed static. The days of 'well, yeah, but I could get 3 or 4 of X for that price' aren't today, and maybe not for a fair few tomorrows either, until the panic recedes. When the panic recedes the value of the inflated stuff will probably crash back a decent ways too. The upper end will probably stay closer to where it is and has been. Seems like the right time to be looking at the higher end stuff if it holds interest. At least that's what I'm telling myself while surfing high end revolvers and custom 1911's :-)

[SeriousStudent]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.


Bring it to Revolver Roundup! :cool:

[Totem Polar]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

http://lifeatthirtysomething.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/keep-calm-i-m-a-baller.png

[Stephanie B]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

Cheaper than two new Pythons and might outlast both of them.

[Lex Luthier]

@Little Lebowski

Such a fine sidearm requires the proper headgear.

May I suggest?

https://www.machinegun.fr/kepi-gendarmerie-nationale-bleu-p-18620

71177

[OlongJohnson]

Don't remember whether we did this in this thread yet, but I'm going back and reading this one:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?46212-My-kingdom-for-a-Korth-(or-Manurhin)

jtcarm, did you ever move? Or are you waiting to see what pricing is like when the Beretta guns hit distribution? (There was a forecast of $2700 pricing in there, which doesn't seem wildly optimistic if guns end up at Bud's, KyGunCo, etc.)

[FrankB]

Or...
71188
71189
71190

[Lex Luthier]

@Little Lebowski

Such a fine sidearm requires the proper headgear.

May I suggest?

https://www.machinegun.fr/kepi-gendarmerie-nationale-bleu-p-18620

71177

I should add that (a) I found this site on my phone, and it didn't load well; I had to look at it on my desktop machine later to discover that it is a cap for an action figure, and sized accordingly. (b) This was not an editorial comment! <grin>

[1slow]

Take a good look at the hand and forearm of the man shooting right hand only. I rather suspect he has much experience with impact training for striking.

[Inkwell 41]

Beretta has a video up. Presenting it is Erik Stern. Like many of you, he’s an enabler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3KmMUpJP9Q

[FrankB]

This (NIB) M73 started at $3,000, and is at $4,000. I’m guessing it’s a Beretta import...????
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/900229288

[OlongJohnson]

I’m guessing it’s a Beretta import...????

Check the barrel engraving.

[Inkwell 41]

This (NIB) M73 started at $3,000, and is at $4,000. I’m guessing it’s a Beretta import...????
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/900229288

$4000.00.... whew!

[Tuvia]

This (NIB) M73 started at $3,000, and is at $4,000. I’m guessing it’s a Beretta import...????
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/900229288

I would be checking with Kebco or Perodeau before I would pay that.

[Scal]

Seeing new Chapuis guns go for more than you can get them from Kebco for, in addition to seeing well used Mulhouse guns go for similar, or in some cases much higher prices is what made me say @*$& it and pay up to Ken at Kebco.

[Wondering Beard]

Beretta has a video up. Presenting it is Erik Stern. Like many of you, he’s an enabler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3KmMUpJP9Q

On video, moving in the light, the blueing looks extraordinary.

And that's my problem with that gun: blue turns orange rapidly around me. I wonder if there's a way of refinishing it in something that is a lot more sweat and weather proof without affecting how the insides work (oh and a different rear and front sights for my old eyes).

[Inkwell 41]

On video, moving in the light, the blueing looks extraordinary.

And that's my problem with that gun: blue turns orange rapidly around me. I wonder if there's a way of refinishing it in something that is a lot more sweat and weather proof without affecting how the insides work (oh and a different rear and front sights for my old eyes).

At 4K, you COULD buy 2 new Pythons and not have to worry about rust. It may not be up to the MR73 standard, but we’re entering stupid level prices for a single copy.

[OlongJohnson]

On video, moving in the light, the blueing looks extraordinary.

And that's my problem with that gun: blue turns orange rapidly around me. I wonder if there's a way of refinishing it in something that is a lot more sweat and weather proof without affecting how the insides work (oh and a different rear and front sights for my old eyes).

I was looking at the Korth Mongoose again last night. It has sights I prefer and comes in a DLC finish standard. More grip options off the shelf. Also, a smooth trigger face, not serrated. How much does that save vs. bringing a Manurhin into a similar configuration?

[ccmdfd]

TFB's take on it.

Edited, see OJ's post below.

[OlongJohnson]

TFB's take on it.

https://youtu.be/E9PtPswuvZg

Your link takes me to a Dunkin' Donuts ad.

This one gets me to TFB's review of the MR.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQmReWckNk

[ccmdfd]

Your link takes me to a Dunkin' Donuts ad.

This one gets me to TFB's review of the MR.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcQmReWckNk

Damn YouTube adds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Link removed

[Totem Polar]

I can’t believe that a TFBtv review made me want one of these even more, but somehow it did.

[jtcarm]

I was looking at the Korth Mongoose again last night. It has sights I prefer and comes in a DLC finish standard. More grip options off the shelf. Also, a smooth trigger face, not serrated. How much does that save vs. bringing a Manurhin into a similar configuration?

Yeah I’m thinking the Mongoose is going to be more my cup of tea, even if it is pricier.

[RevolverRob]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

Who'd you get on the list with?

[jtcarm]

If anyone on the forum buys one, I’d sure like to know the throat & groove measurements.

Accuracy with cast bullets is a must. If I’m going to drop $3,000+ on a revolver, it’s going to get shot, A LOT. The only way I can afford that is with cast bullets.

One thing I have read about the Manurhin (possibly on this forum) is that European .357 brass has thicker rims, and the MR73 has greater headspace to accommodate it.

No idea if it’s true.

[Kyle Reese]

So…everything went hazy and I just got on a list for a 4” MR73. Tell me it was the logical choice.

Very logical choice. You should also get on the list for the 5” model. [emoji41]

I’ll just sit over here and admire my MR88.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

I’ll just sit over here and admire my fancy Ruger Service Six

Fixed that one for you. :eek: ;)

I'm not jealous (I'm totally jealous, I would love a 3" MR88, a 3" MR73, and 3" Mongoose in my collection).

[OlongJohnson]

If anyone on the forum buys one, I’d sure like to know the throat & groove measurements.

Accuracy with cast bullets is a must. If I’m going to drop $3,000+ on a revolver, it’s going to get shot, A LOT. The only way I can afford that is with cast bullets.

One thing I have read about the Manurhin (possibly on this forum) is that European .357 brass has thicker rims, and the MR73 has greater headspace to accommodate it.

No idea if it’s true.

I have seen a comment (probably the blue forum) that someone was told to use Euro brass in an MR73 that had noticeable end shake, and it would effectively act as a spacer to take up the shake clearance. Don't remember whether he thought it was plausible, or actually tried it and found it to be the case. In any case, I would say that that relying on rims vs. headspace to take up end shake is likely to eventually go poorly, and is the kind of strategy that is basically a b.s. excuse for something not being right in the first place. Can't say I've seen anything discussed in that realm in terms of actual headspace measurements. Hard to imagine that Euro brass would be systematically greater than SAAMI/CIP max specs, or that Chapuis/Manurhin would intentionally build guns greater than SAAMI/CIP max specs. Generally, brass on the high end but not over and guns on the low end but not under would be the best situation.

The people most knowledgeable who are posting on the internet seem to be long on the history and specs and stuff in the brochure. Some even shoot them, though only a handful (single digits) at anywhere near a level that would be considered heavy use on this forum. They are relatively shorter on actually (at least discussing) things like measurements, etc.

It's kinda frustrating to not be able to put my hands on one. With S&Ws and Rugers, the depth and detail of what I learn by getting into one very quickly exceeds what can be read in any number of hours surfing the web, and I fairly often and quickly figure out stuff that I have never seen mentioned anywhere, by anybody, in years of reading. In my recent journey through a J frame, I discovered and addressed a potential problem area that's not even mentioned in Kuhnhausen.

I feel like with the MR/Mongoose questions, I've basically read all there is to read on the web (at least in English). The threads are getting to where even the people who know what they are talking about (also those who clearly don't) are just saying the same things over and over, and I don't have answers to my questions. Like this post, where two of us who are both doing our diligence before likely shelling out find ourselves repeating what we've read elsewhere but haven't actually measured anything.

Ultimately, I have internalized Trust No One (https://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective) at a level so deep that I should perhaps think about whether it's healthy. I don't have any good way of knowing that the durability and other quality aspects observed forty years ago and discussed ever since will actually be present in a recent production gun I might buy today. That's ultimately what's holding me back. I'm getting close to just buying one, because there seems to be no substitute for doing so. If I am disappointed and sell it, I could probably get my money back, if not make a profit in a few months or years. If I lose a few hundred, that's getting to be less and less bad a deal compared to the time I'm going in circles not being able to find any more reliable information.

Buy the ticket, take the ride. F around and find out.

[Scal]

If anyone on the forum buys one, I’d sure like to know the throat & groove measurements.

Accuracy with cast bullets is a must. If I’m going to drop $3,000+ on a revolver, it’s going to get shot, A LOT. The only way I can afford that is with cast bullets.

One thing I have read about the Manurhin (possibly on this forum) is that European .357 brass has thicker rims, and the MR73 has greater headspace to accommodate it.

No idea if it’s true.

On my MR73, the throats all took a .358 minus pin gauge. Slugging the barrel got me roughly .356, maybe a touch less. I need to make a form so I can press some lead sinkers into more cylindrical shapes to make sure about the slug sizes. There wasn’t quite enough bearing surface for me to be completely sure of groove diameter using the lubricated lead sinkers tapped into the barrel with a brass punch. Assuming that I didn’t screw up the slug measurements, that is right in line with a 9.04mm (.3559”) groove diameter published by Zeleny.

I have been dealing with leaks in my workshop, but I can take better measurements and check BC gap and cylinder to breechface gap in about week once the dust settles.

[SeriousStudent]

OlongJohnson - I truly understand and sympathize.

If you are ever near Texas, you are will to come and shoot mine when it arrives in my grubby mitts.

[Duelist]

Those look really, really cool.

Fortunately, as I started thinking about how cool they are and how I have enough slush/fun money to buy one stocked up, I pulled the 6” 28-2 out of the safe, said, “well, crap, this one’s pretty cool, paid for, and hasn’t been shot but once or twice in the last year.”

Hope someone I know gets one so I can try it out, but I will quietly sit back and not. At least, not this month.

[jtcarm]

On my MR73, the throats all took a .358 minus pin gauge. Slugging the barrel got me roughly .356, maybe a touch less. I need to make a form so I can press some lead sinkers into more cylindrical shapes to make sure about the slug sizes. There wasn’t quite enough bearing surface for me to be completely sure of groove diameter using the lubricated lead sinkers tapped into the barrel with a brass punch. Assuming that I didn’t screw up the slug measurements, that is right in line with a 9.04mm (.3559”) groove diameter published by Zeleny.

I have been dealing with leaks in my workshop, but I can take better measurements and check BC gap and cylinder to breechface gap in about week once the dust settles.

Awesome, thanks!

[Spartan1980]

On my MR73, the throats all took a .358 minus pin gauge. Slugging the barrel got me roughly .356, maybe a touch less. I need to make a form so I can press some lead sinkers into more cylindrical shapes to make sure about the slug sizes. There wasn’t quite enough bearing surface for me to be completely sure of groove diameter using the lubricated lead sinkers tapped into the barrel with a brass punch. Assuming that I didn’t screw up the slug measurements, that is right in line with a 9.04mm (.3559”) groove diameter published by Zeleny.

I have been dealing with leaks in my workshop, but I can take better measurements and check BC gap and cylinder to breechface gap in about week once the dust settles.

If these measurements are accurate it would be just pretty much a "textbook perfect" setup. One to two thousandths less in the barrel from throat diameter is what I'd try for every time.

[TiroFijo]

You can get an extra 9x19 luger cylinder for the MR73... with those thight throat and groove diameters I bet the 9x19 shoots just fine too in this revolver.

[OlongJohnson]

Especially if you run the Hornady HAP .356 125gr bullet.

[Scal]

I reslugged the bore as well as checked BC gap and cylinder/breechface gap.

(Consider any measurements taken into .0001 increments as an average “best fit” after several checks)

The barrel slugged at around .3562, as checked by a good micrometer that can measure down to the ten thousandth of an inch (I am absolutely the weak link in precision here). I only got two grooves to totally engrave on the slug without some disruption from lube grooves (I had some .375 lead bullets I used as slugs) and that’s what those came out to.

I also micced some bullets I had around, and some coated bullets that measured .3585 wouldn’t press forward through the throats with hand pressure. A Berry plated bullet micced at .3575 did go through the throats with hand pressure, but it didn’t drop through.

The BC gap was .006” on all chambers, with about .001” inch endshake and the cylinder/breech gap was .060” on all chambers. .060” is SAAMI minimum headspace for .357. The endshake that was there is probably necessary to keep the cylinder spinning freely when the gun heats up. I have a few Smith and Wesson revolvers that I have used shims on to reduce endshake, and I have noticed that you can’t really take endshake to less than was observed with the MR73 without the gun starting to lock up after a few cylinders of ammo.

[Bio]

I understand that $3k is a lot for a handgun, but I see people with collections of dozens of guns (or more, sometimes much more). Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have one of a gun that's the best of its type that's ever been made than 3 or 4 pretty good guns. I understand opting form more guns over one really excellent gun, but if guns are your hobby, 3k honestly doesn't seem all that bad if the MR73 is as great as its reputation.

[fly out]

I understand that $3k is a lot for a handgun, but I see people with collections of dozens of guns (or more, sometimes much more). Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have one of a gun that's the best of its type that's ever been made than 3 or 4 pretty good guns. I understand opting form more guns over one really excellent gun, but if guns are your hobby, 3k honestly doesn't seem all that bad if the MR73 is as great as its reputation.

I have several obscure collections. Some truly obscure. To further your point, as you winnow your collection, there are times where your collection might have exactly one example.

(When it comes to guns, it's hard to rationalize that statement. It takes a lot to part with a gun.)

[Totem Polar]

3k honestly doesn't seem all that bad if the MR73 is as great as its reputation.

From a 1911 perspective, that’s pretty middle of the road pricing. If the MR73 is to revolvers even what a Nighthawk GRP is to 1911s, then we’re already there.

[LittleLebowski]

From a 1911 perspective, that’s pretty middle of the road pricing. If the MR73 is to revolvers even what a Nighthawk GRP is to 1911s, then we’re already there.

I’d say a cut well above Nighthawk, given the entirely tool steel build of the MR73.

[Totem Polar]

I’d say a cut well above Nighthawk, given the entirely tool steel build of the MR73.

So, you’re saying it’s a bargain, then?

Good enough!

:D

[fly out]

From a 1911 perspective, that’s pretty middle of the road pricing. If the MR73 is to revolvers even what a Nighthawk GRP is to 1911s, then we’re already there.

I own revolvers. I like revolvers. I'm not a revolver guy. So please bear with these questions.

Are the originals available? And at what cost?

Do we want a Chapuis example, or is it simply a necessity to play in this sandbox?

This is a serious series of questions. You monkeyfarmers have sucked me in to looking at these. I'm temporarily saved by the fact that I can't hit "Add to Cart" to any of the shorter-barreled examples.

Thanks for reading this far.

[OlongJohnson]

I’d say a cut well above Nighthawk, given the entirely tool steel build of the MR73.

Ugh. I strongly suspect "entirely tool steel" is misinformation. I have seen "ordnance steel," "ordnance-certified alloy," and even "ordnance-certified tool steel" elsewhere, as well as discussion that the material is the same used in artillery - although without stating for what parts, as that information, as well as any details of what the actual alloy is, are considered protected (or whatever level of "non-public" applies) information. It all reads to me like people repeating stuff they don't remember quite right but sounds good and they don't understand in any case.

I would be surprised to learn from a reliable source that the whole frame and barrel are actually made of something that would be classified as "tool steel," although we do like triggers and hammers made of appropriately selected and processed tool steel. There is extensive discussion out there about various members of the 4000-series family of chromoly steels and their uses and differences when used as gun barrels. It would seem reasonable that the MR73 barrel would be made from a very high quality barrel steel (one used for artillery barrels, even, which may be different than those used for target rifle barrels), and that the frame might be made from the same material.

It's not 100 percent obvious that it would be optimum to make the frames and barrels out of the exact same alloy. At a first pass, special ordering one type of material from the foundry is better than ordering two, but if the forms are different (e.g., round bars for hammer forged barrels and flat plate for forging blanks or billet frames), they might be separate orders or production runs in any case. Knowing how much aluminum my former employer had to order at once (and well over a year in advance) to get the foundry to process it to the required specs, and given the estimate that Chapuis may build only about 400 MR73s per year, it seems likely that an order of steel, if it is a special-ordered production run, will fill all the production requirements for several years. Maybe more than several.

I would bet two P-F bucks that whatever the alloy is, it's closer to what you'd see a top-quality target rifle barrel made from than it is anything classified as "tool steel."

Another part that might be tool steel is the pivot pins. We know they are a different material than the frame, as they do not react to the bluing salts in the same way, hence the "spotted" look analogous to but far less pronounced than the steel pins in an anodized scandium S&W frame. An alloy classified as tool steel would likely be an appropriate choice for the pins, as extreme wear resistance is a desirable characteristic there, so trading some toughness (accepting greater brittleness) for additional hardness could be useful.

Full disclosure: you stepped on a pet peeve:
"Tool steel," like "aircraft aluminum," is a fairly general category description, kind of like "the color blue." There are a multitude of chemistries in both categories. The actual physical properties of any given chemistry depend very heavily on its manufacturing history, and the wide range of end states is applied as required to optimize the results of each part application. Advertising that something is made of "aircraft aluminum" doesn't tell someone who knows something very much at all, and probably isn't even a legitimate claim in most cases (at least to someone competent in specifying/building/inspecting aircraft).


I own revolvers. I like revolvers. I'm not a revolver guy. So please bear with these questions.

Are the originals available? And at what cost?

Do we want a Chapuis example, or is it simply a necessity to play in this sandbox?

This is a serious series of questions. You monkeyfarmers have sucked me in to looking at these. I'm temporarily saved by the fact that I can't hit "Add to Cart" to any of the shorter-barreled examples.

Thanks for reading this far.

Older production guns are around, if you are patient. Some of the cheaper ones you'll see around are police trade-ins from various sources, possibly beaten on, neglected and abused in various African countries. Some are nicely preserved. Prices will vary accordingly. There were a handful of engineering changes through the years. I'm not aware of any of them being considered "cheapening" in the way that later S&W "dash" numbers generally are. As a shooter, I'd want the leaf-type hand spring, which is the later version. I've read that Chapuis has continued using the same alloy that Manurhin used for frames and barrels. The guns are now made at least partly with CNC equipment, which obviously was not available in 1973. It is generally considered that CNC equipment, properly used, will if nothing else achieve the same (or better) precision in less time at lower cost with reduced chance of errors. CNC equipment, improperly used, can also make pallets of bad parts at the speed of a computer.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that older guns are nicer, others report having inspected both and found more recent Chapuis guns to be the best ever made. Collecting is a different game, but I have not seen a preponderance of opinion that the best shooter will be had by getting an older gun. MR73s are not like Korths where the design has evolved through periods of significant engineering differences since the 1960s. My general expectation is that variation within the different MR73 populations is likely to exceed the variation between the averages of the different populations (except that the lower-priced "mass" imported guns with rough service histories are likely to be in the worst shape). In other words, which gun you get is likely more important than when it was made or in which factory. That is particularly true of any machine built with a great deal of hand fitting and hand finishing. A single Pierre may very well have better and worse days, and Guillaume may be more or less skilled and conscientious than Pierre, which could also vary by day.

[Tuvia]

I own revolvers. I like revolvers. I'm not a revolver guy. So please bear with these questions.

Are the originals available? And at what cost?

Do we want a Chapuis example, or is it simply a necessity to play in this sandbox?

This is a serious series of questions. You monkeyfarmers have sucked me in to looking at these. I'm temporarily saved by the fact that I can't hit "Add to Cart" to any of the shorter-barreled examples.

Thanks for reading this far.

Yes they are available. Bring money

Yes you want a Chapuis example. Some experts agree there is little to no difference in quality between the Chapuis and Mulhouse guns.

I don't currently have an MR73 but have had three. I bought a Janz and have no need for two top end .357.

I do have an MR 38 and really like it.

While You are looking check out the Korth. You won't be disappointed in either but if you are set on the MR73 don't hesitate it is a great revolver.

[Spartan1980]

Ugh. I strongly suspect "entirely tool steel" is misinformation. I have seen "ordnance steel," "ordnance-certified alloy," and even "ordnance-certified tool steel" elsewhere, as well as discussion that the material is the same used in artillery - although without stating for what parts, as that information, as well as any details of what the actual alloy is, are considered protected (or whatever level of "non-public" applies) information. It all reads to me like people repeating stuff they don't remember quite right but sounds good and they don't understand in any case.

I would be surprised to learn from a reliable source that the whole frame and barrel are actually made of something that would be classified as "tool steel," although we do like triggers and hammers made of appropriately selected and processed tool steel. There is extensive discussion out there about various members of the 4000-series family of chromoly steels and their uses and differences when used as gun barrels. It would seem reasonable that the MR73 barrel would be made from a very high quality barrel steel (one used for artillery barrels, even, which may be different than those used for target rifle barrels), and that the frame might be made from the same material.

It's not 100 percent obvious that it would be optimum to make the frames and barrels out of the exact same alloy. At a first pass, special ordering one type of material from the foundry is better than ordering two, but if the forms are different (e.g., round bars for hammer forged barrels and flat plate for forging blanks or billet frames), they might be separate orders or production runs in any case. Knowing how much aluminum my former employer had to order at once (and well over a year in advance) to get the foundry to process it to the required specs, and given the estimate that Chapuis may build only about 400 MR73s per year, it seems likely that an order of steel, if it is a special-ordered production run, will fill all the production requirements for several years. Maybe more than several.

I would bet two P-F bucks that whatever the alloy is, it's closer to what you'd see a top-quality target rifle barrel made from than it is anything classified as "tool steel."

Another part that might be tool steel is the pivot pins. We know they are a different material than the frame, as they do not react to the bluing salts in the same way, hence the "spotted" look analogous to but far less pronounced than the steel pins in an anodized scandium S&W frame. An alloy classified as tool steel would likely be an appropriate choice for the pins, as extreme wear resistance is a desirable characteristic there, so trading some toughness (accepting greater brittleness) for additional hardness could be useful.

Full disclosure: you stepped on a pet peeve:
"Tool steel," like "aircraft aluminum," is a fairly general category description, kind of like "the color blue." There are a multitude of chemistries in both categories. The actual physical properties of any given chemistry depend very heavily on its manufacturing history, and the wide range of end states is applied as required to optimize the results of each part application. Advertising that something is made of "aircraft aluminum" doesn't tell someone who knows something very much at all, and probably isn't even a legitimate claim in most cases (at least to someone competent in specifying/building/inspecting aircraft).



Older production guns are around, if you are patient. Some of the cheaper ones you'll see around are police trade-ins from various sources, possibly beaten on, neglected and abused in various African countries. Some are nicely preserved. Prices will vary accordingly. There were a handful of engineering changes through the years. I'm not aware of any of them being considered "cheapening" in the way that later S&W "dash" numbers generally are. As a shooter, I'd want the leaf-type hand spring, which is the later version. I've read that Chapuis has continued using the same alloy that Manurhin used for frames and barrels. The guns are now made at least partly with CNC equipment, which obviously was not available in 1973. It is generally considered that CNC equipment, properly used, will if nothing else achieve the same (or better) precision in less time at lower cost with reduced chance of errors. CNC equipment, improperly used, can also make pallets of bad parts at the speed of a computer.

Some people seem to be of the opinion that older guns are nicer, others report having inspected both and found more recent Chapuis guns to be the best ever made. Collecting is a different game, but I have not seen a preponderance of opinion that the best shooter will be had by getting an older gun. MR73s are not like Korths where the design has evolved through periods of significant engineering differences since the 1960s. My general expectation is that variation within the different MR73 populations is likely to exceed the variation between the averages of the different populations (except that the lower-priced "mass" imported guns with rough service histories are likely to be in the worst shape). In other words, which gun you get is likely more important than when it was made or in which factory. That is particularly true of any machine built with a great deal of hand fitting and hand finishing. A single Pierre may very well have better and worse days, and Guillaume may be more or less skilled and conscientious than Pierre, which could also vary by day.
Having machined vast quantities of modified AISI 4140, 4145 and 4150 and a bit of 43xx series steels on both manual and CNC equipment I suspect that the steel is along these lines at perhaps a slightly higher than typical heat treat condition. The may well use tool steel trigger hammer/sear components but again it's entirely possible that they are hardening them higher yet. The 43xx series steels are noticeably tougher than 41xx series when machining and they actually rang like a bell in heavy cuts on a 100+hp lathe at around 40RC hardness. I'm thinking that they would be a very good steel to use for an endurance application, I'm just not up to speed enough to know that they would be "MR73 durable".

Also as you implied CNC does not equate to perfect parts at close tolerances in all cases. Skilled fitting of certain features in mechanisms as intricate as a revolver action on a level of a MR73 or Korth will always be required especially when working with these materials. I worked on a Mori Seiki jig boring machine with Leica optical scales for feedback to the control in all 3 linear AND both rotary axes, it had both heated AND chilled coolant, spindle oil and also hydraulics and a custom warm up program added by Fanuc at the factory. We purchased it in great almost unused condition from Boeing's satellite division for a song and we really had to have our stuff together to meet tolerances even with all that. We were running engine nozzle components for a ballistic missile that was to intercept incoming ballistic missiles which didn't make life easy for us! Damn, I almost miss those days. Almost...

[OlongJohnson]

Following up, the Chapuis brochure reads:


Manurhin MR73 frames are fully machined from forged ordonnance[sic]-certified steel billets for total reliability.

The English in the brocure is not all that precise in many details, but "forged billet" is often another case of the speaker/writer not really knowing what they're talking about. (Not every company has engineers capable of writing brochure copy.)

In general usage in English, "forging" is a way of converting a blank into a shape approximating the finished part. (Will skip over the features and benefits of it - don't want to get into that debate.)

In general usage in English, a "billet" is the material as it is produced by the foundry/mill in bar or plate form. It may be cold or hot rolled, or extruded, for example. But it's generally an approximately constant cross section produced by a continuous process and cut to length for further processing and transportation. These lengths ("bars") are then cut by the retailer or the machine shop into blocks ("billets") that will be loaded into the machine and all the material that isn't the desired part cut away.

The billets are not generally referred to as "forged" unless they are loaded into a forging press and converted into something closer to the shape of the final part, essentially by hitting them with a really big hammer shaped kinda like the final part. Then they are called "forgings," not "billets."

One could make a hand-waving argument that some bar stock or plate (e.g., cold rolled or extruded) is equivalent to forged material (as opposed to a casting) due to the condition of the grain structure, but that's really kind of a double-dipping, trying to paint something with the "cool guy" aura of both words for marketing purposes.

In my mind, it's unclear what is meant when someone says, "forged billet." All the people I've known and worked with who make stuff for a living are clear to distinguish the terms in order to avoid confusion.

Also, "ordonnance-certified" doesn't tell me anything about what it is, just that it comes with a paper trail (material certification) documenting what it actually is. It occurs to me that "ordonnance-certified" could simply be the French cultural equivalent of claiming something is "Mil-spec," except that it does actually imply the existence of an applicable cert, whereas Mil-spec gets thrown around on a whole lot of stuff that has never been in the same building as a legit cert.

[Duelist]

Following up, the Chapuis brochure reads:



The English in the brocure is not all that precise in many details, but "forged billet" is often another case of the speaker/writer not really knowing what they're talking about. (Not every company has engineers capable of writing brochure copy.)

In general usage in English, "forging" is a way of converting a blank into a shape approximating the finished part. (Will skip over the features and benefits of it - don't want to get into that debate.)

In general usage in English, a "billet" is the material as it is produced by the foundry/mill in bar or plate form. It may be cold or hot rolled, or extruded, for example. But it's generally an approximately constant cross section produced by a continuous process and cut to length for further processing and transportation. These lengths ("bars") are then cut by the retailer or the machine shop into blocks ("billets") that will be loaded into the machine and all the material that isn't the desired part cut away.

The billets are not generally referred to as "forged" unless they are loaded into a forging press and converted into something closer to the shape of the final part, essentially by hitting them with a really big hammer shaped kinda like the final part. Then they are called "forgings," not "billets."

One could make a hand-waving argument that some bar stock or plate (e.g., cold rolled or extruded) is equivalent to forged material (as opposed to a casting) due to the condition of the grain structure, but that's really kind of a double-dipping, trying to paint something with the "cool guy" aura of both words for marketing purposes.

In my mind, it's unclear what is meant when someone says, "forged billet." All the people I've known and worked with who make stuff for a living are clear to distinguish the terms in order to avoid confusion.

Also, "ordonnance-certified" doesn't tell me anything about what it is, just that it comes with a paper trail (material certification) documenting what it actually is. It occurs to me that "ordonnance-certified" could simply be the French cultural equivalent of claiming something is "Mil-spec," except that it does actually imply the existence of an applicable cert, whereas Mil-spec gets thrown around on a whole lot of stuff that has never been in the same building as a legit cert.

As you say, the translation isn’t very precise. Could it be they meant “forged from billet steel”?

[Tuvia]

https://www.chapuis-armes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/manurhin-cata-8p-hd-1-min_rearranged.pdf

Frames machined from forged ordinance certified steel billets. So each part is not hammer forged.

[Trooper224]

A little history on a countersniper variant from Gun Jesus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1zEUGck8NE

[jh9]

"forged billet"
...
"forging"
...
"billet"
...
"ordonnance-certified"
...
"Mil-spec,"

I think it'll be easier to just accept that this is made from some alloy that involves Iron and the appropriate descriptors should be "unicorn horn" along with something like "organic" or "artisanal". It's about as descriptive as the ad copy and requires less thinking.

[Tuvia]

This is a quote I got from Zeleny.

Chapuis follows Manurhin in claiming that MR73 barrels, frames, and cylinders are “machined from specially formulated, ordnance-certified alloyed steel stock procured from Aubert & Duval, an internationally-recognised specialist manufacturer of special steels.”

So yeah the forged part is misleading in that it would make you think each part is hammer forged into a shape resembling the final product. I do believe the barrels are cold hammer forged so this may be where this comes from.

I do know these revolvers are first rate and while I might like Korth or Janz Better I am very happy with my MR38.

[RevolverRob]

Is Beretta going to offer the 9mm cylinder for their imported MR73s?

I'm really only asking for budgetary purposes. As far as I am concerned, it is a foregone conclusion a 4" gun will be in my possession before end of the year.

[45dotACP]

Is Beretta going to offer the 9mm cylinder for their imported MR73s?

I'm really only asking for budgetary purposes. As far as I am concerned, it is a foregone conclusion a 4" gun will be in my possession before end of the year.I think I might end up selling a few of the wondernines to fund the possibile acquisition of a MR73.

Starting to consider the "quality over quantity" paradigm of gun collecting now and maybe get rid of the guns that just don't blow my skirt up anymore.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[awp_101]

Starting to consider the "quality over quantity" paradigm of gun collecting now and maybe get rid of the guns that just don't blow my skirt up anymore.
I’ve been doing that for the past 18 months or so. If I’d known this was in the works I’d have waited.🤦🏻*♂️🤷🏻*♂️

[TiroFijo]

Please remember, all who get the MR73 must post a video of their "Tir de confiance"

https://www.facebook.com/gendarmerienationale/posts/2745176292213215


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJecVFaLGq0

[elsquid]

Question for e_stern

Does Beretta plan on submitting one or more flavors of the MR73 for inclusion on California’s handgun roster?

Since revolvers aren’t required to have LCIs, magazine safeties, or implement microstamping adding them is fairly straightforward. ( Colt has been adding their new revolvers, and both the relatively recent 4.25 and 6 inch Pythons are available here for new dealer sales. )

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/search?make=151001

Thanks!

— Michael

[zeleny]

All major components of the Manurhin MR73 are milled on a five-axis CNC machine out of appropriately shaped hot forgings. Its cylinder chambers are finished by galetage (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galetage), i.e. roller burnished after drilling. There are no MIM parts in the MR73, with the possible exception of the currently employed LPA rear sight.
Most Manurhin revolver models, including, but not limited to the fixed sights MR73 Police/Défense variants, the MR22 Match, the 10¾" MR22 and MR73 Silhouette, the Modèle convertible .22–.32–.38, the RMR and F1 Spécial Police, the MR93 and MR96, and the Remora 5, have been definitively put out of production since Manurhin withdrew from small arms manufacture in 1998. Chapuis makes only the adjustable sights versions of the MR73 and MR88 chambered in .357 Magnum, and the single action MR38 and MR32 Match.
Standard MR73 barrels are rifled with six grooves, with a right hand twist at a one turn in 476mm rate, replicating Smith & Wesson’s traditional rate of one turn in 18¾". Match barrels utilize five grooves at the same twist rate, with a bore diameter of 9.05mm. Up to serial number 39200, the bore diameter of standard MR73 barrels measures 8.96mm +0 / +0.03mm. After it, the barrels are finished to the .38 Match bore size, measuring 9.04mm +0 / +0.05mm. For obvious reasons, only the former play nice with the 9mm Para cylinder, though a few of the latter have been so (retro)fitted.
All Chapuis MR73 revolvers are numbered with an HA prefix. Over the past 22 years, fewer than 4,400 of them have been released in the wild. (By contrast, Korth Lollar makes around 2,500 revolvers a year.) Barring a major investment by Beretta subsidizing a great increase in production capacity, I do not expect significant discounts from the MSRP.
More information can be found here (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/tag/manurhin).

[Tuvia]

Hoping You would be along to educate us. MY Chapuis MR 38 is a SA/DA.

[OlongJohnson]

All major components of the Manurhin MR73 are milled on a five-axis CNC machine out of appropriately shaped hot forgings.


Thanks, that's helpful.



There are no MIM parts in the MR73, with the possible exception of the currently employed LPA rear sight.

My suggestion of MIM was speculative, and I thought that was clear in how it was stated. I'm realistic about what MIM is and what it isn't, I won't use it as an epithet, the way many do. It remains apparent that the newer cylinder release button has changed from a machined part to some kind of casting, and that that casting is pretty rough.


[LIST=1]
Standard MR73 barrels are rifled with six grooves, with a right hand twist at a one turn in 476mm rate, replicating Smith & Wesson’s traditional rate of one turn in 18¾". Match barrels utilize five grooves at the same twist rate, with a bore diameter of 9.05mm. Up to serial number 39200, the bore diameter of standard MR73 barrels measures 8.96mm +0 / +0.03mm. After it, the barrels are finished to the .38 Match bore size, measuring 9.04mm +0 / +0.05mm. For obvious reasons, only the former play nice with the 9mm Para cylinder, though a few of the latter have been so (retro)fitted.


Your citing of tolerances doesn't make sense. A "+0/+(>0)" number is mathematically unintelligible. Did you mean "+0 / -0.0Xmm?"

Assuming that modification is correct, I suspect you may still be off by a decimal place:

mm inch
8.96 0.3528
0.03 0.0012
9.04 0.3559
9.05 0.3563
0.05 0.0020

Quality precision barrels are typically discussed as having bore tolerances of +/-0.0002 inch, an order of magnitude tighter than the numbers you report. Not trying to get into any kind of personal disagreement, just pursuing precision in information.

[zeleny]

It remains apparent that the newer cylinder release button has changed from a machined part to some kind of casting, and that that casting is pretty rough.I am going by what I have seen on revolvers manufactured in Mulhouse and early Chapuis production. I await the importation of a recent Chapuis-made MR73, and will report my findings upon its receipt.


Your citing of tolerances doesn't make sense. A "+0/+(>0)" number is mathematically unintelligible. Did you mean "+0 / -0.0Xmm?"

Assuming that modification is correct, I suspect you may still be off by a decimal place:

mm inch
8.96 0.3528
0.03 0.0012
9.04 0.3559
9.05 0.3563
0.05 0.0020

Quality precision barrels are typically discussed as having bore tolerances of +/-0.0002 inch, an order of magnitude tighter than the numbers you report. Not trying to get into any kind of personal disagreement, just pursuing precision in information.I am reproducing the official information reported here (http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/viewtopic.php?t=118582). As elaborated, “+0 / +0.03mm” means at the most 0.03" over the nominal diameter. Accordingly, before s/n 39200 the MR73 bore measures between 0.353" and 0.354"; thereafter, between 0.356" et 0.358". Yes, it’s quite a spread.

[OlongJohnson]

Thank you for linking your source!

The standard American way of expressing that tolerance would be:

9.04 +0.05/-0.00

And indeed, it is quite a spread. The implication being that any given gun must be slugged to determine what size cast should be used for good results. Any of them is likely to be fine with .357 jacketed bullets, but accuracy, pressure, etc. may vary with a given bullet in different guns.

I noticed Guillaume Tell is regarded as an authority. Do you know his background (i.e., where he would come by that information)? Is he connected with the factory?

[JonInWA]

You can pretty much take to the bank whatever information Micheal Zeleny provides-particularly concerning SIG P210s, Manhurins, and Korths. His participation here is much appreciated.

Best, Jon

[OlongJohnson]

Really quick video on roller burnishing (since Zeleny's link was to French Wikipedia):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BWzWhyh038

It's a cool process.

[zeleny]

The standard American way of expressing that tolerance would be:

9.04 +0.05/-0.00Thank you. I am a mathematician manqué trapped in the thickets of ESL and FTL. The struggle is real.


And indeed, it is quite a spread. The implication being that any given gun must be slugged to determine what size cast should be used for good results. Any of them is likely to be fine with .357 jacketed bullets, but accuracy, pressure, etc. may vary with a given bullet in different guns. But for shooting wadcutter handguns, I hardly ever use anything but jacketed bullets, and nothing under 140gr in .357 Magnum. Going any lighter will surely erode, if not fracture, the forcing cone.


I noticed Guillaume Tell is regarded as an authority. Do you know his background (i.e., where he would come by that information)? Is he connected with the factory?Look here (http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44587&p=476266#p476266).

[OlongJohnson]

But for shooting wadcutter handguns, I hardly ever use anything but jacketed bullets, and nothing under 140gr in .357 Magnum. Going any lighter will surely erode, if not fracture, the forcing cone.

Look here (http://www.tirmaillyforum.com/mildot/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44587&p=476266#p476266).

Indeed, for .357 loads in a revolver that I was unwilling to treat as a consumable, I'd hesitate to use lighter than 158gr and would probably stick with 180gr. On a gun as expensive as an MR73, I would use single-base powders exclusively, as they are widely believed to be less capable of causing flame cutting. IMR 4227 (https://shop.hodgdon.com/imr/imr-4227) is a popular choice for that application, though it will likely leave some incompletely burned grains behind. Double-base powders like H110/W296 and Li'l Gun are for the Marlin 1894 and Contender.

In standard-pressure .38 SPL loads, I would not expect any problems using bullets as light as the 110gr XTP with appropriate powders for such a load.

I tried to look up Monsieur Tell's profile earlier, but the site requires registration to see it. I didn't decide it was important enough to register on a forum hosted in another country, etc. just to see that. Perhaps I will eventually register there if I surf around and find it to be a useful source of MR info. Thanks for the link, in any case!

[TiroFijo]

How do the MR73 compares to the Korth revolvers imported by Nighthawk?

[zeleny]

How do the MR73 compares to the Korth revolvers imported by Nighthawk?You can find my account of their principle differences here (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/698759.html), here (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/315158.html), here (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/312858.html), and here (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/311641.html). The biggest practical difference is that no .357 Magnum Korth revolver ever made has a full length ejector rod.

[RevolverRob]

Really quick video on roller burnishing (since Zeleny's link was to French Wikipedia):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BWzWhyh038

It's a cool process.

In English: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_burnishing

I get it. A combination of work hardening and pressing out imperfections, by using a very uniform surface and pressure to do it. Not unlike using an English Wheel to smooth out a hammered surface actually. You're displacing, not abrading, the rough areas, to generate smooth ones. Obviously on a much finer scale with much higher degree of precision.

[Tuvia]

How do the MR73 compares to the Korth revolvers imported by Nighthawk?

From personal experience I lean toward the Korth but they are two different guns. Either one You will be happy with so it is a matter of personal preference. The Korth has a very durable finish and to me is a bit more refined but not as pretty as the Manurhin. The MR73 is more like the old Mulhouse guns where the new Korth is different than the old Korth.

What I don't like about the new Korth is that awful Nighthawk logo which has no right to be on that gun. I got one off egun and had it imported. If the logo does not bother you go for it they are great guns.

[zeleny]

From personal experience I lean toward the Korth but they are two different guns. Either one You will be happy with so it is a matter of personal preference. The Korth has a very durable finish and to me is a bit more refined but not as pretty as the Manurhin. The MR73 is more like the old Mulhouse guns where the new Korth is different than the old Korth.

What I don't like about the new Korth is that awful Nighthawk logo which has no right to be on that gun. I got one off egun and had it imported. If the logo does not bother you go for it they are great guns.Old school Ratzeburg Korth revolvers belong among the finest sporting handguns of all times. The MR73 belongs among the best handguns ever made for social work. Horses for courses.

[Tuvia]

Old school Ratzeburg Korth revolvers belong among the finest sporting handguns of all times. The MR73 belongs among the best handguns ever made for social work. Horses for courses.

I totally agree with that and to me my one Ratzeburg Korth is finer than a Chapuis MR73 and a Lollar Korth. The problem is it took me five years to find a like new example of the Ratzeburg model I wanted and then I paid a large premium but it was worth every penny. That said Im pretty sure I would take my Janz over any of them.

[NPV]

I’ve worked hard to pair down my semi-auto inventory to 3 full house Colts. I’ll be following this thread closely. I have a 3” 65, 4” 28, 640 Pro, and a 4” 19 that I may try to turn into an MR73. Time will tell.

[Tod-13]

Marriage breaker! It's worth a new sofa. We are looking at fancy coffee tables - some are $1200 for fancy hardwood. I decline - so buy this?

Now, the description says that the magazine capacity is 6 rounds. Oh, did they mean 'clip'. :rolleyes:

You need a wife upgrade. My wife got a Korth 357 for her birthday and loves it!

How do these compare to the Korth/Nighthawk revolvers?

ETA: should have read page 6 before asking. :-)

[LittleLebowski]

I really wish the MR73 had a better finish than blueing, because I'm gonna carry mine.

[FrankB]

I really wish the MR73 had a better finish than blueing, because I'm gonna carry mine.

Get some clear vinyl slip covers made for pistols. My Italian (Queens) aunts all had their furniture covered with that. 🤣

[OlongJohnson]

The thought of mine showing the Malamute treatment makes the idea of being an old(er) guy slightly less painful.

[FrankB]

Talk about superior metallurgy. This MR73 shows a pounding from the extractor ratchets, and a lot of rough matching. Just saying...
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895155401
71461

[1slow]

That example makes a Ruger look polished.

[OlongJohnson]

Talk about superior metallurgy. This MR73 shows a pounding from the extractor ratchets, and a lot of rough matching. Just saying...
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895155401
71461

Serial indicates that's a pre-Chapuis gun.

[LittleLebowski]

Talk about superior metallurgy. This MR73 shows a pounding from the extractor ratchets, and a lot of rough matching. Just saying...
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895155401
71461

zeleny

[zeleny]

Talk about superior metallurgy. This MR73 shows a pounding from the extractor ratchets, and a lot of rough matching. Just saying...
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895155401
71461The photo is way out of focus. I never saw any gouging on recoil shields of very high round count Manurhin revolvers. Finish will wear there on any .357 Magnum revolver, except for the Mateba 6 Unica, which indexes on the rear cylinder face like a Colt M1877. As for “a lot of rough matching”, cry me a river.

[FrankB]

The photo is way out of focus. I never saw any gouging on recoil shields of very high round count Manurhin revolvers. Finish will wear there on any .357 Magnum revolver, except for the Mateba 6 Unica, which indexes on the rear cylinder face like a Colt M1877. As for “a lot of rough matching”, cry me a river.

I meant to say “machining”, but auto-spell had other plans. Isn’t this a Manurhin revolver? The swipe from the center pin/rod seems like a mismatch of metals, or a particularly sharp end. I’m not saying they’re bad; I’m just wondering whether to get in line. TIA

[zeleny]

I meant to say “machining”, but auto-spell had other plans. Isn’t this a Manurhin revolver? The swipe from the center pin/rod seems like a mismatch of metals, or a particularly sharp end. I’m not saying they’re bad; I’m just wondering whether to get in line. TIAIt is an MR73 with the old style ratchet. The cylinder pin rod (axe du barillet) has a rounded end. A flat one, as used on a Ratzeburg Korth with highly polished, glass-hard surfaces, won’t mark as much. Also, heat treatment on the MR73 is optimized for toughness.

[RAM Engineer]

So other than the barrel length and front sight profile, is there any difference between the two models that Beretta is importing? (5.25" Sport vs 4" Gendarmerie)

[Half Moon]

So other than the barrel length and front sight profile, is there any difference between the two models that Beretta is importing? (5.25" Sport vs 4" Gendarmerie)

The rear sight profile is different as well. Not sure if there are other differences.

[OlongJohnson]

I have been told by Kebco that the LPA rear sights are all the same. The historic difference between the rear sight profile on Sport and Gendarmerie models no longer exists.

[OlongJohnson]

It is an MR73 with the old style ratchet. The cylinder pin rod (axe du barillet) has a rounded end. A flat one, as used on a Ratzeburg Korth with highly polished, glass-hard surfaces, won’t mark as much. Also, heat treatment on the MR73 is optimized for toughness.

On the M&P 340 (scandium J frame) I recently went through, I noticed that the recoil shield ramp was getting pretty heavily marred just from all the opening and closing of the cylinder I was doing going through the gun. Looking at it under 10x magnification, it was clear that the tip of the center pin had tool marks on it, essentially concentric grooves making it act as a circular file on the frame of the gun when opening and closing. Gave it the old 320/400/600/worn-out-600 treatment, and it is as smooth as I could want under magnification. Will make checking and addressing that the first step with any future S&Ws.

Haven't had a chance to check out the axe du barillet on a Manurhin yet, but the gun in the picture certainly suggests tool marks could be present anywhere.

[RevolverRob]

Talk about superior metallurgy. This MR73 shows a pounding from the extractor ratchets, and a lot of rough matching. Just saying...
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/895155401
71461

That's not a reflection of pounding from recoil or rough machining.

Look at the cylinder. One tine of the extractor star isn't sitting flush with the cylinder face. The pattern on the breech face is consistent with getting gouged by the extractor star. I can't say if it wasn't fit right or if it was disassembled and not reassembled correctly.

A hardened sharpened edge will dig in against a hardened flat surface. Has nothing to do with the metallurgy of the parts in question. Has to do with the fitment of them.

If the extractor star had been correct/corrected or is corrected that issue will stop.

Since this is a pre-Chapius gun, the fitment of it cannot be used as evidence that the current guns built by an entirely different company, would have the same issue.

Careful inspection of any gun before taking possession of it should be the norm.

As it is, someone forked over the cash for that gun, because of when it was made and lack of import marks, not to shoot it heavily.

[zeleny]

On the M&P 340 (scandium J frame) I recently went through, I noticed that the recoil shield ramp was getting pretty heavily marred just from all the opening and closing of the cylinder I was doing going through the gun. Looking at it under 10x magnification, it was clear that the tip of the center pin had tool marks on it, essentially concentric grooves making it act as a circular file on the frame of the gun when opening and closing. Gave it the old 320/400/600/worn-out-600 treatment, and it is as smooth as I could want under magnification. Will make checking and addressing that the first step with any future S&Ws.

Haven't had a chance to check out the axe du barillet on a Manurhin yet, but the gun in the picture certainly suggests tool marks could be present anywhere.All but one of my S&W revolvers are pre-WWII, with hand-polished recoil shields. The one exception is a 1998 M627 with a bead blasted recoil shield. All are marked with traces of the ratchet and ejector pin. Anyone bothered by this tendency ought to get a Colt.

[MrDogtor]

Anyone here get one of the Beretta imports yet? I can't even find where to buy one.

[OlongJohnson]

I've heard the first shipment is all going to Beretta Galleries.

[e_stern]

Question for e_stern

Does Beretta plan on submitting one or more flavors of the MR73 for inclusion on California’s handgun roster?

Since revolvers aren’t required to have LCIs, magazine safeties, or implement microstamping adding them is fairly straightforward. ( Colt has been adding their new revolvers, and both the relatively recent 4.25 and 6 inch Pythons are available here for new dealer sales. )

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/certified-handguns/search?make=151001

Thanks!

— Michael

Anything is possible.

For now, the MR38 and MR32 are exempt by virtue of the Olympic Pistol list.

[SeriousStudent]

I've heard the first shipment is all going to Beretta Galleries.

DB and I were at the Dallas Beretta Gallery on Saturday. Terrific folks there, by the way.

They sold out of the first batch of 25 pistols in less than 48 hours, they said. I'm on the list for the next batch, sometime in June or July.

Weeping silently, I consoled myself with a new 92X full size. My nephew needs a sidearm. I'll fill it with Langdon parts and teach him The One True Faith.

[RevolverRob]

. I'll fill it with Langdon parts and teach him The One True Faith.

So, you'll be trading it for a 1911? :eek:

I'm a little frustrated, the first 25 guns sold at Beretta galleries. This is ruining my Hipster Cred...

[elsquid]

Anything is possible.



Well then, I remain hopeful.

:D

Thanks for the response.

-- Michael

[zeleny]

Well then, I remain hopeful.No need to stop at hoping.

California Handgun Roster, Single-Action Exemption FAQ (https://www.riflegear.com/t-sae.aspx)

[OlongJohnson]

zeleny

So if I understand it right, this should be as simple as removing the sear from the hammer, completing the transfer, and then reinstalling the sear. Correct?

[elsquid]

No need to stop at hoping.

California Handgun Roster, Single-Action Exemption FAQ (https://www.riflegear.com/t-sae.aspx)

Yup, I’m aware. Heck, even bought a few -SSEs- pre 2014!

The “problem” is the logistics of getting somebody trusted to crack the sideplate of your $3k gun and do the mods preDROS. Riflegear is a good shop with a good rep, but isn’t local to me. Now I could order one from them, have them do the conversion, and I have a local FFL comfortable with the SAE process ( though he won’t do mods )...but it would be much easier if the darn revolver was on the darn roster. No reason why it couldn’t be rostered, Beretta just needs to submit samples for testing.

I guess that Beretta could offer them as single action guns out-of-the-box for California with the DA parts in a little baggie, but that might be too close to the edge for corporate risk evaluators.

— Michael

[zeleny]

zeleny

So if I understand it right, this should be as simple as removing the sear from the hammer, completing the transfer, and then reinstalling the sear. Correct?Yes, as simple as that.

[zeleny]

Yup, I’m aware. Heck, even bought a few -SSEs- pre 2014!

The “problem” is the logistics of getting somebody trusted to crack the sideplate of your $3k gun and do the mods preDROS. Riflegear is a good shop with a good rep, but isn’t local to me. Now I could order one from them, have them do the conversion, and I have a local FFL comfortable with the SAE process ( though he won’t do mods )...but it would be much easier if the darn revolver was on the darn roster. No reason why it couldn’t be rostered, Beretta just needs to submit samples for testing.

I guess that Beretta could offer them as single action guns out-of-the-box for California with the DA parts in a little baggie, but that might be too close to the edge for corporate risk evaluators.Chiappa does that with the Rhino. In fact, they sent us the baggie, but kept the revolver.

As for the logistics, I submit that anyone unable to remove and reinstall the sideplate on a Hand Ejector type revolver should get himself a Glock.

[elsquid]

As for the logistics, I submit that anyone unable to remove and reinstall the sideplate on a Hand Ejector type revolver should get himself a Glock.

Which is fine, but I need the gun converted before it hits my FFL, so I’m back to needing somebody trusted to do it right. I can convert it back after taking possession.

I’m not in a huge panic to buy an MR73 -right now- and it sounds like they are going to be fairly scarce for a while due to demand, so I can wait and see what develops. ( Or doesn’t )

— Michael

[zeleny]

Which is fine, but I need the gun converted before it hits my FFL, so I’m back to needing somebody trusted to do it right. I can convert it back after taking possession. The same principle applies all the more so to anyone who sells revolvers.
I’m not in a huge panic to buy an MR73 -right now- and it sounds like they are going to be fairly scarce for a while due to demand, so I can wait and see what develops. ( Or doesn’t )Judging by today’s sales records of Mulhouse revolvers at Hermann Historica, and Beretta galleries selling out of Chapuis revolvers within 48 hours, scarcity is here to stay.

[APPDMike]

The same principle applies all the more so to anyone who sells revolvers. Judging by today’s sales records of Mulhouse revolvers at Hermann Historica, and Beretta galleries selling out of Chapuis revolvers within 48 hours, scarcity is here to stay.

Yeah, I was on the list from one of the distributors I mean number one. Anyway, Beretta never sent out the revolvers to distributors because they sold out.The distributors that Berrtta is using are the same distributors that were importing before Beretta so they hooked me up with NIB pre-berreta imported Mr73, identical and certified except without “Imported by Beretta” on the gun. The revolver looks excellent and the trigger is smoother than my model 65 3inch. I’m just waiting for ammo to get in stock. Excellent customer service from any distributors in the Maryland region.

[Scal]

Beretta USA just responded to an information request that I sent. They are not set up to service guns just yet until they build up a parts supply from Chapuis, but the plan is to be able to do so. They didn’t seem to mind that my gun wasn’t imported by Beretta (I mentioned this in the information request) but I don’t expect that it would be free service in that case.

They are not planning on selling spare parts to the public.

[David C.]

Several interesting articles on the MR73:

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/blog/beretta-manurhin-revolvers/?goal=0_0d355b7f6d-04da1eb42a-426395187&mc_cid=04da1eb42a&mc_eid=57f7d82e53#GIGN

[WobblyPossum]

So, jetfire, what do you think of the one you just picked up?

[jetfire]

So, jetfire, what do you think of the one you just picked up?

I've only shot 56 rounds through it so far, but my initial impressions are that it's really fucking nice.

And that I don't like serrated triggers for speed shooting at all

[WobblyPossum]

I've only shot 56 rounds through it so far, but my initial impressions are that it's really fucking nice.

And that I don't like serrated triggers for speed shooting at all

I look forward to your review when you’re done.

[OlongJohnson]

And that I don't like serrated triggers for speed shooting at all

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do about the serrations.

[Tuvia]

As of today I have 1240 rounds through my MR38. Very accurate and just a blast to shoot.

[zeleny]

I'm looking forward to seeing what you do about the serrations.Please bear in mind that MR73 production is very limited. However, spare parts other than frames, barrels, and cylinders, are available in France. If you want to modify them, set aside the original piece and tinker with a spare. Your heirs will thank you.

[jetfire]

Please bear in mind that MR73 production is very limited. However, spare parts other than frames, barrels, and cylinders, are available in France. If you want to modify them, set aside the original piece and tinker with a spare. Your heirs will thank you.

Lol, guns are for shooting, not collecting. I'm probably going to bob the hammer with a Dremel while I'm at it since single action is for people who suck at shooting.

[Sal Picante]

I'm still waiting for my CAI import MR73 to get done up at Dave Laubert's...
Choppity-chop-chop

[TheNewbie]

Lol, guns are for shooting, not collecting. I'm probably going to bob the hammer with a Dremel while I'm at it since single action is for people who suck at shooting.


Under most circumstances, I cut a YouTube video off if they start shooting in single action. It really doesn’t get more boring or meaningless for me.


It’s one thing if a youtuber shows the SA trigger, but focusing on it is unwatchable.

[zeleny]

Lol, guns are for shooting, not collecting. I'm probably going to bob the hammer with a Dremel while I'm at it since single action is for people who suck at shooting.I said nothing about collecting. A new MR73 will far outlast its owners, whose heirs are unlikely to share their tastes. Admittedly, anti-natalists of various orientations needn’t concern themselves with their posterity.


https://youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk