Beretta is bringing in MR73 revolvers

[jetfire]

I said nothing about collecting. A new MR73 will far outlast its owners, whose heirs are unlikely to share their tastes. Admittedly, anti-natalists of various orientations needn’t concern themselves with their posterity.


https://youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk

Just because you use big words to try to use "gay" as a slur doesn't make you any less of a homophobe, my dude.

And my son will have plenty of cool guns to inherent when I eventually die, hell he may even have an MR73 that's had the piss shot out of it by someone who knows how to shoot a wheelgun. That would be a lot cooler than a museum piece that's never been touched by someone who knows how to make it sing.

[zeleny]

And my son will have plenty of cool guns to inherent when I eventually die, hell he may even have an MR73 that's had the piss shot out of it by someone who knows how to shoot a wheelgun. That would be a lot cooler than a museum piece that's never been touched by someone who knows how to make it sing.Knock yourself out, sunshine. But why stop at having the piss shot out of it? Pro tip: shooting Magnum ammo loaded with 125gr bullets will get the forcing cone eroded and cracked within a couple thousand rounds.


https://youtu.be/tldGgGFe194

[jetfire]

Knock yourself out, sunshine. But why stop at having the piss shot out of it? Pro tip: shooting Magnum ammo loaded with 125gr bullets will get the forcing cone eroded and cracked within a couple thousand rounds.


https://youtu.be/tldGgGFe194

I mean intentionally damaging my gun seems pretty foolish, but hey you did accurately describe yourself with that video so…have fun? I’ll stick to winning matches and running my gun hard, thanks.

[OlongJohnson]

I'm not a shitty mod here, but I think both of you are better than the last few posts.

zeleny seems to have different interests and values than I do when it comes to firearms and hobby things, but we can still end up interested in some of the same things. He has a particular writing style that I'm not sure reflects what he'd be like in person. I have to respect and in fact be grateful for his efforts even if I don't agree with him on all points, as he has been the best source of written information about the MR73 in English that I've found.

jetfire is known to be a good guy, although we've also seen his response to having certain buttons pushed (not just in this thread). And most of us could learn some things from him about running a revolver.

Let's start over, give each other a little space for personality differences that don't really matter, and try to keep this the place that keeps us all coming back.

[Erik]

This:


Just because you use big words to try to use "gay" as a slur doesn't make you any less of a homophobe, my dude.

seems like a spot on assessment of this:


Admittedly, anti-natalists of various orientations needn’t concern themselves with their posterity.


https://youtu.be/Oj3VphK9AMk

which makes me seriously doubt this:


@zeleny (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=9263)...He has a particular writing style that I'm not sure reflects what he'd be like in person.

Sometimes who people are does show through, to their detriment. Still, this is always good advice:


Let's start over, give each other a little space for personality differences that don't really matter, and try to keep this the place that keeps us all coming back.

[Tuvia]

Say what You want but Zeleny knows his guns. I have learned a lot by reading his articles. If You want to modify your gun it's no skin off my nose but I wouldn't do it.

[zeleny]

Anti-natalism (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/215389.html) is an increasingly popular (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/14/anti-natalists-childfree-population-climate-change) philosophical position (https://www.newyorker.com/culture/persons-of-interest/the-case-for-not-being-born) originated in the 2006 book by David Benatar, Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence, and best epitomized in the well-known admonition by Philip Larkin: “Get out as early as you can, / And don’t have any kids yourself. (https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/48419/this-be-the-verse)” Contrariwise, them that wish to honour their father and their mother, naturally incline in the opposite direction, towards paying forward the effort of their upbringing to their own progeny. Accordingly, holding anti-natalism in contempt nowise depends on any kind of phobia, with the possible exception of fear of the Lord.

Having gotten this much out of the way, I reproduce the best definition of collection, due to Krzysztof Pomian:
Ensemble d’objets naturels ou artificiels, maintenus temporairement ou définitivement hors du circuit d’activités économiques, soumis à une protection spéciale et exposés au regard dans un lieu clos aménagé à cet effet, la collection est un fait universel, coextensif dans le temps à Homo sapiens et attesté, fût-ce sous une forme rudimentaire, dans toutes les sociétés humaines. Car toutes, elles procèdent à des échanges avec l’invisible et c’est au sein d’un tel échange que se forment les collections. Faire une typologie des collections fondée en raison, c’est d’abord inventorier et classer les modalités de l’invisible connues des anthropologues et des historiens.

A set of natural or artificial objects, kept temporarily or permanently outside the course of economic activities, subject to special protection and exposed to view in an enclosed space designed for that purpose, the collection is a universal fact, coextensive in time to Homo sapiens and attested, albeit in a rudimentary form, in all human societies. Because they all engage in exchanges with the invisible and it is within such an exchange that collections are formed. To make a typology of collections based on reason means first of all to inventory and classify the modalities of the invisible known to anthropologists and historians.As an owner of an indeterminate number of firearms and Title 08 FFL holder, I do not count as a collector in the foregoing sense, even if my business largely depends on catering to them. I have few safe queens, and tend to resell guns that I don’t shoot. However, in keeping with my concern for my heirs, I endeavor to practice responsible stewardship of my durable possessions, resisting the historical tendency of attrition, deterioration, and mutilation of valuable articles consigned to irresponsible owners. Anyone that falls short of Elmer Keith’s learning and skills should refrain from pimping out a first generation Colt SAA with a custom hammer, trigger, and sights (https://gundigest.com/more/classic-guns/photo-gallery-10-incredible-guns-of-elmer-keith):
73751
It bears notice that the total production of the Manurhin MR73 is a small fraction of the original numbers of the first generation Colt SAA. While I can understand the urge to modify a gun to one’s liking, true fighting skill adapts to the arms at hand, not vice versa. Them that insist on tinkering with their tool would be best advised to refrain from irreversible modifications, especially when spare parts are available at a fraction of their manufacture cost (https://www.naturabuy.fr/MANURHIN-MR73-Detente-sport-match--item-7986221.html).

[Le Français]

I think if a parent of mine were a highly skilled revolver shooter, I’d rather inherit the piece as they shot it and preferred it, with the dings and scrapes and modifications that made it theirs, rather than inherit something untouched and generic. Inheritance, to some, is more about the ancestor and less about “show me the money”.

For money, I can get a good job, and that’s largely thanks to how I was raised. So, I guess it all works out.

[RevolverRob]

While I can understand the urge to modify a gun to one’s liking, true fighting skill adapts to the arms at hand, not vice versa.

That is demonstrably not true and is absolutely ignorant to the efforts of the most skilled experts in every field. To continue your exposition in this way merely serves to undermine your arguments and personage overall.

[zeleny]

That is demonstrably not true and is absolutely ignorant to the efforts of the most skilled experts in every field. To continue your exposition in this way merely serves to undermine your arguments and personage overall.Spoken like a gamer, not a fighter.

[zeleny]

I think if a parent of mine were a highly skilled revolver shooter, I’d rather inherit the piece as they shot it and preferred it, with the dings and scrapes and modifications that made it theirs, rather than inherit something untouched and generic. Inheritance, to some, is more about the ancestor and less about “show me the money”.

For money, I can get a good job, and that’s largely thanks to how I was raised. So, I guess it all works out.The highly skilled set is vastly outnumbered by the Dunning–Kruger cohort. “A man who gives a good account of himself is probably lying, since any life when viewed from the inside is simply a series of defeats.”

[WobblyPossum]

Spoken like a gamer, not a fighter.

People who fight with guns professionally generally set the gun up to suit their needs better if they can. Oftentimes the only reason people who would otherwise modify their guns do not do so is because they are prohibited from doing so by the policies of their employer.

ETA: gunfighters past and present have modified their firearms to better suit their needs as they saw them. An awesome place to check out numerous examples of how folks from the revolver era used to do so is Darryl Bolke’s Facebook page DB’s Shooting Adventures.

[zeleny]

People who fight with guns professionally generally set the gun up to suit their needs better if they can. Oftentimes the only reason people who would otherwise modify their guns do not do so is because they are prohibited from doing so by the policies of their employer.The vast majority of people who fought professionally throughout history, used standard issue weapons, if not whatever was at hand.

[HCM]

Spoken like a gamer, not a fighter.

Life is an “open class” event.

[HCM]

The vast majority of people who fought professionally throughout history, used standard issue weapons, if not whatever was at hand.

And many get modified, whether those modifications are permitted or not. Some are temporary and reversible modifications and some are permanent.

[zeleny]

Life is an “open class” event.In a true “open class” fighting event, the winner prevails with whatever is at hand.

[HCM]

In a true “open class” fighting event, one prevails with whatever is at hand.

Ok tough guy.

[LittleLebowski]

Let’s get back on topic, please.

[Jim Watson]

Making a virtue of necessity. Most government agencies frown on employees messing with their gear. A fed of my acquaintance, caught up in the FBI Return To 9mm, bought a G17 just so he could shoot non-issued ammo that he was not allowed to use in his official sidearm of the same model.

I wonder how many "professional fighters" put in as much pistol practice as an enthusiastic "gamer."

I went out and gymnasticated my Vienna PD surplus MR73 alongside Mere American Made Revolvers.
I am in the minority, I like SOME traction on my trigger face. I have a couple of S&Ws with the serrations dulled to suit, and the rounded grooves in the Python trigger are about right. I do like the corners rounded off.
The MR73 trigger serration is very "crisp" and keen, the face is flat in the lateral plane with very square corners.
If somebody wanted to sponsor Team Mediocre to shoot that gun regularly, that would have to be dealt with.
If the sponsor wanted to provide one of those 60 Euro triggers to smooth so I could do as is daily recommended on the gun boards "save the original parts for when you sell the gun", fine. Otherwise, watch the sparks fly.

The ugly rubber Trausch grips form a beavertail that protects from hammer bite. The hammer spur is very short and small anyhow.
They also give a glockish effective grip angle; the gun comes up pointing high for my hands trained to Colt and Smith grip frames.
Professional bodyguard and gunzine writer Leroy Thompson said that open backed walnut grips let the MR73 roll in the hand under recoil because the rear face of the frame at the top of the backstrap is sloped where Smith is nearly vertical. The Trausch prevents it for sure. Ruger fixed that in the Security Six frame configuration.

For an IDPA gun I would want a fibre optic front sight, for duty a night sight, for bullseye, a post. Are sight blades interchangeable or are we making a Modification?

[MandoWookie]

The vast majority of people who fought professionally throughout history, used standard issue weapons, if not whatever was at hand.

Have you ever looked at what comes out of SOCOM and other elite units? Or the SOG guys back in Vietnam? The few people in a major organization that are permitted(or at least not strongly dissuaded from) procuring or modifying their gear? Also coincidentally the people who are most likely to, or actively seek out confrontation with an enemy, and have the most actual combat experience?

https://youtu.be/n6zfTYQ09Rs

I seriously doubt Larry Vickers was the only one doing this kind of thing.

Edit to add: History has shown that professionals will use what is at hand to accomplish their goal, but given opportunity, and preparation will adapt or modify tools to better suit the job and their preferences.

https://youtu.be/YgecTgbz3ik

Another example.
https://youtu.be/7M91tTJkyMM
And another.
https://youtu.be/CQRvcQWtqfE
And another.

[RevolverRob]

Anybody notice on the Beretta side you can sign up to be notified here are the models that you can be notified about:

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin/#dealers

73769[737717377273773737747377573777ATTACH=CONFIG]73770[/ATTACH]

[JRB]

Spoken like a gamer, not a fighter.

Speaking as a "fighter" -13 years in the Army as a pointless fobbit, anyway- I've had to adapt to the tools issued because of necessity and regulation, not because adapting was in any way 'better' than very obvious available improvements in the M4/M16 available throughout the industry. When my 'fighting' organization gets stuck in bureaucratic mud over asking for an adjustable buttstock and ambi selector lever for an issued weapon, all of that philosophical BS goes right out the window.
"Fighters" routinely make due with whatever's available because the situation demands it. In more trying times it may have been all they had. In the modern world of LE/Mil, it's red tape, paperwork, and regulations spawned by blubbering spineless twerps that rarely if ever see violence themselves. Neither situation justifies some sort of abstinence when it comes to suitable modifications that genuinely improve performance.

jetfire has tangibly demonstrated his skill with that MR73 and offered evidence of such. If he sees fit to modify that revolver to improve his results further, he should absolutely do so.

Speaking personally, I am far more interested in well-worn firearms that saw proven expert use with changes and optimization to match, vs some perfectly preserved example of a firearm that did absolutely nothing but sit in a box or safe for decade after decade.

Cars should be driven well and often, guns should be shot well and often. Low miles and low round counts are just the future's evidence of wasted opportunity in the past. YMMV.

[Scal]

https://imgur.com/a/1ShEBW4
Anybody notice on the Beretta side you can sign up to be notified here are the models that you can be notified about:

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin/#dealers

<buttload of different model sku pictures redacted>



https://i.imgur.com/cSZlyNP.jpg

[willie]

Beretta will have hammers and triggers. So modify them. Geese. It's a damn tool. Altering the action would not make much sense. Go ahead and erode the forcing cone with magnum ammo. If you can afford this revolver and that much ammunition, you can afford to have it rebarrelled. But you might discover that the eroded area does not affect performance.

And how many gun fighters do we have here? And how many of them used a handgun, Out of this number how many used a revolver? The big dude with the hound used a shotgun on heathens. Blues showed up at these occasions with a submachine gun. I suspect Trooper used a big stick or an 870. Hambo probably slapped them. I would have been in the way and stayed home.

[PNWTO]

I need to more about that MR88 3” DX Defense... that may hurt my savings.

[Clusterfrack]

Let's keep this on the (incredibly boring to me) topic of MR73 revolvers, and not lapse into personal issues. I've made a new thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?48837-Octagon-for-Jetfire-amp-Zeleney-fight) for this cagefight in the Romper Room section.

[MandoWookie]

I need to more about that MR88 3” DX Defense... that may hurt my savings.

Me too, with the 4" inch model. Looks like the Security Six that Ruger should still be making. And if what I'm seeing elsewhere online is accurate, at a price much more achievable for me than the MR73.
Edit to add:
Only downside, that damn full lug barrel.

[Jim Watson]

Let's get modern.
Hey, Mr Z, why didn't the MR 93 or MR 96 stick?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/903302476

[Scal]

I got a 3” barrel 38sp MR88 when they were being surplussed out by various importers and the prices were good. The barrel and cylinder are of good quality, and the frame is a Ruger designed, but a French made casting. The early versions of the F1 super police were Ruger castings, before France started making their own castings. The action seems to stack and then go slack just before the trigger break. This is after a reduced power wolff mainspring and trigger spring install, and shimming the trigger and hammer. It’s perfectly useable, and probably doesn’t matter much for rapid shooting, but it’s not exactly nice compared a Smith and Wesson or MR73 trigger. It’s also a sample size of one gun, so your mileage may vary. I got the MR88 because I didn’t want to spring for the MR73, and it didn’t particularly thrill me, so I ended up getting an MR73 later.

[zeleny]

Beretta will have hammers and triggers. So modify them. Geese. It's a damn tool. Altering the action would not make much sense. Go ahead and erode the forcing cone with magnum ammo. If you can afford this revolver and that much ammunition, you can afford to have it rebarrelled. But you might discover that the eroded area does not affect performance.Do not expect Beretta, or anyone else, to offer MR73 frames, cylinders, or barrels. Beretta may or may not offer MR73 action parts at all, let alone for a reasonable price. Unreasonably priced action parts are available from Hastings Distribution (https://www.hastingsdistribution.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=60&show=100&sortby=price:desc). New old stock action parts can be readily found on Naturabuy.fr (https://www.naturabuy.fr/search_result.php?title=manurhin&univers=no) and privately imported from France for a fraction of their prices, provided that their total cost is less than $100. For bigger parts lots, ask your friendly neighborhood Type 01 FFL holder to file an ATF Form 6 on your behalf.

[zeleny]

Let's get modern.
Hey, Mr Z, why didn't the MR 93 or MR 96 stick?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/903302476Manurhin sold its revolver manufacture to Chapuis around 1998. Chapuis resumed the production of four Manurhin revolver models (https://www.chapuis-armes.com/en/manurhin-en/), the MR73, the MR88 and the single action MR38 and MR32 Match. For undisclosed reasons of their own, they refrained from making all other Manurhin models, such as the MR96, the double action .22LR/.22 Mag, the MR32, the small frame Remora, the single action MR22 Match and three caliber Convertible, etc.

[willie]

What Beretta offers might be limited service when the revolver is sent in. The company has enough money to do as it wishes. The bottleneck will be the manufacturer's output of replacement parts. If this arrangement is more trouble than it's worth for importer or maker, then it will go by the wayside.

[zeleny]

Speaking as a "fighter" -13 years in the Army as a pointless fobbit, anyway- I've had to adapt to the tools issued because of necessity and regulation, not because adapting was in any way 'better' than very obvious available improvements in the M4/M16 available throughout the industry. When my 'fighting' organization gets stuck in bureaucratic mud over asking for an adjustable buttstock and ambi selector lever for an issued weapon, all of that philosophical BS goes right out the window.
"Fighters" routinely make due with whatever's available because the situation demands it. In more trying times it may have been all they had. In the modern world of LE/Mil, it's red tape, paperwork, and regulations spawned by blubbering spineless twerps that rarely if ever see violence themselves. Neither situation justifies some sort of abstinence when it comes to suitable modifications that genuinely improve performance.To say that skilled fighters adapt to the weapons at hand is not to justify any kind of abstinence when it comes to suitable modifications that genuinely improve performance. The devil is in the details, inasmuch as one man’s performance improvements add up to another man’s handicap. Hence my recommendation to attempt such improvements with spare parts, reserving the originals for posterity. On a technical level, MR73 action parts are glass hard and finely tuned for its unusually short action. Accordingly, attempts to remove the ridges from triggers and spurs from hammers are more than likely to result in breakage and light strikes.

[zeleny]

What Beretta offers might be limited service when the revolver is sent in. The company has enough money to do as it wishes. The bottleneck will be the manufacturer's output of replacement parts. If this arrangement is more trouble than it's worth for importer or maker, then it will go by the wayside.Let me try this again. Chapuis is a boutique manufacture. Over the past twenty-one years, they made fewer than 4,400 Manurhin revolvers, while rebuffing numerous outside attempts to fund an increase of their production capacity. Not everything in life is about having enough money to do as one wishes.

[RevolverRob]

So, besides that punk ass Caleb, has anyone been able to get one of the Beretta imported guns yet?

[MandoWookie]

To say that skilled fighters adapt to the weapons at hand is not to justify any kind of abstinence when it comes to suitable modifications that genuinely improve performance. The devil is in the details, inasmuch as one man’s performance improvements add up to another man’s handicap. Hence my recommendation to attempt such improvements with spare parts, reserving the originals for posterity. On a technical level, MR73 action parts are glass hard and finely tuned for its unusually short action. Accordingly, attempts to remove the ridges from triggers and spurs from hammers are more than likely to result in breakage and light strikes.

If it is that sensitive and finely tuned, how can it stand up to supposed level of durability it is famed for? If the hammer is that brittle, how does it have the service life it has had in police use?

How has it accrued this reputation if it is a faberge egg that cannot be sullied or mishandled lest the whole thing crumbles?

[MandoWookie]

Let me try this again. Chapuis is a boutique manufacture. Over the past twenty-one years, they made fewer than 4,400 Manurhin revolvers, while rebuffing numerous outside attempts to fund an increase of their production capacity. Not everything in life is about having enough money to do as one wishes.

So its value to you is not in its use, but in its scarcity?

[willie]

Let me try this again. Chapuis is a boutique manufacture. Over the past twenty-one years, they made fewer than 4,400 Manurhin revolvers, while rebuffing numerous outside attempts to fund an increase of their production capacity. Not everything in life is about having enough money to do as one wishes.

Since Beretta Holding Company bought Chapuis, would not that fact determine policies about revolver production? Beretta might be telling Chapuis what to do. For example, Beretta may direct Chapuis to produce 3000 the first year. The issue will be making component parts to their strict specs. Putting them together will not be as labor intensive as people think.

[pangloss]

So its value to you is not in its use, but in its scarcity?

I'm not sure if I should post here or in the cage fight thread in RomperRoom, but I think this comment is an excellent distillation of the issue. Some people value possessions, while others value experiences. I think I'd order a spare hammer and then grind away on it. That's probably splitting the bet too much, but I'm not particularly hand or mechanically inclined. Maybe I need to buy nicer guns, but I've not yet become a slave to any of them.

Getting back to the pistol, I'm really enjoying this thread and learning more about the pistol. I hate cleaning revolvers though, so if I owned a MR73, I would have the best intentions of shooting it and then just take my Glock 19 to the range instead. That's assuming I ever find time to actually go to the range again.

[Clusterfrack]

This thread is in the technical section, and should be focused on revolvers. Please take this conflict elsewhere.

[Clusterfrack]

I'm probably going to regret this, but... I'm reopening the Romper Room thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?48837-Octagon-for-Jetfire-amp-Zeleny-fight). Please post all non-technical comments and questions there.

[Jim Watson]

Manurhin sold its revolver manufacture to Chapuis around 1998. Chapuis resumed the production of four Manurhin revolver models (https://www.chapuis-armes.com/en/manurhin-en/), the MR73, the MR88 and the single action MR38 and MR32 Match. For undisclosed reasons of their own, they refrained from making all other Manurhin models, such as the MR96, the double action .22LR/.22 Mag, the MR32, the small frame Remora, the single action MR22 Match and three caliber Convertible, etc.

Reasons that make sense to me are that the MR73 and MR88 are good versatile guns, sell anywhere legal; and the Match guns are no doubt attractive to ISSF shooters who don't quite trust those .32 wadcutter blowbacks.

MR93/96 is just odd, they never pushed it and did not get the GIGN publicity.
We can all grieve over the loss of a nice .22 revolver.
Three caliber convertible? .38,.357, 9mm? Beretta needs to give them a nudge on that one, should be popular here for reasons not entirely clear to me. My trade in had a pocket in the box liner for an extra cylinder. Oily like it maybe had one in it at some time.

[zeleny]

Three caliber convertible? .38,.357, 9mm? Beretta needs to give them a nudge on that one, should be popular here for reasons not entirely clear to me. My trade in had a pocket in the box liner for an extra cylinder. Oily like it maybe had one in it at some time.The Convertible was a single action revolver that came in .38 S&W Special, .32 S&W Long, and .22LR. Jean Beltzer, the manager of Manurhin’s small arms manufacture, employed a Dan Wesson two-piece barrel design patented in 1967 by Karl R. Lewis, allowing for a cylinder gap adjustable with hand tools. The firing system allowed for switching between centerfire and rimfire chamberings with an ingenious rotating recoil plate design that reoriented the frame-mounted inertia firing pin, protected by European Patent number EP0278795B1 (https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0278795B1). The cylinder yoke was retained by an externally operated latch, in the manner of a Korth. Don’t count on Beretta getting it back in production.

73821

[zeleny]

Since Beretta Holding Company bought Chapuis, would not that fact determine policies about revolver production? Beretta might be telling Chapuis what to do. For example, Beretta may direct Chapuis to produce 3000 the first year. The issue will be making component parts to their strict specs. Putting them together will not be as labor intensive as people think.Chapuis has its Manurhin revolvers built by a small staff of gunmakers formerly employed by their namesake in Mulhouse. Based on my knowledge of French industry, they have no capacity for scaling up their operations. As we say in California, “I could be wrong, but I’m not.”

[zeleny]

So its value to you is not in its use, but in its scarcity?Why can’t I enjoy both?

[willie]

Has anyone thought to ask the folks at Beretta to comment on the number of revolvers that will be imported? Beretta's business model has become a factor in this equation.

[jetfire]

Has anyone thought to ask the folks at Beretta to comment on the number of revolvers that will be imported? Beretta's business model has become a factor in this equation.

That info is also under NDA for obvious reasons

[Jim Watson]

The Convertible was a single action revolver that came in .38 S&W Special, .32 S&W Long, and .22LR. Jean Beltzer, the manager of Manurhin’s small arms manufacture, employed a Dan Wesson two-piece barrel design patented in 1967 by Karl R. Lewis, allowing for a cylinder gap adjustable with hand tools. The firing system allowed for switching between centerfire and rimfire chamberings with an ingenious rotating recoil plate design that reoriented the frame-mounted inertia firing pin, protected by European Patent number EP0278795B1 (https://patents.google.com/patent/EP0278795B1). The cylinder yoke was retained by an externally operated latch, in the manner of a Korth. Don’t count on Beretta getting it back in production.


Wow, a gageteer's dream. No, there is not much likelihood they will bring that one back.
How do you say 'Murphy's Law' in French? My version is that any caliber convertible firearm will always be found configured in the caliber you did NOT want to shoot today.

[willie]

That info is also under NDA for obvious reasons

Then we must wait and see. I may research this aspect myself.

[Le Français]

How do you say 'Murphy's Law' in French?

Quite simply “la loi de Murphy”, except that you have to pronounce “Murphy” in a really goofy way.

[OlongJohnson]

The Wikipedia page on Murphy is actually a worthwhile read. Some life lessons there.

[zeleny]

If it is that sensitive and finely tuned, how can it stand up to supposed level of durability it is famed for? If the hammer is that brittle, how does it have the service life it has had in police use?
How has it accrued this reputation if it is a faberge egg that cannot be sullied or mishandled lest the whole thing crumbles?Let me try this again. Every mechanical device is liable to malfunction, if not breakage, outside of its performance envelope. The MR73 was designed by Gilbert Maillard and manufactured by Manurhin, subject to detailed requirements laid down by Raymond Sasia on behalf of GIGN, in accordance with contemporaneous FBI revolver shooting techniques, to withstand the daily practice regimen of 150 rounds of Norma 158 grain .357 S&W Magnum ammo. The MR73 was tested with this ammunition. Its torture test was abandoned without appreciable wear after firing 170,000 full power Norma .357 rounds. Numerous published tests witness this capacity. By contrast, even the N-frame S&W .357 revolvers are generally good for less than a third of this life span, constrained not only by their metallurgy, but also by the need to contain the far greater rotational momentum of much heavier cylinders. However, this durability record of the MR73 was obtained under a French police regimen that allowed for split times magnitudes greater than those attained by gamers these days:
One of the drills was the 7 meter fast response. (https://larvatus.livejournal.com/520133.html) It goes as follows: the gun is loaded with five .357 Magnum rounds and carried in a belt holster; in the pocket the shooter has 5 more loose .357 Magnum rounds. At the sound of a whistle, the range officers are given 25 seconds to fire the ten cartridges at the target located 7 meters away; the instructors have only 20 seconds. It turns out that in order to have the time to reload and fire the other five rounds in the allotted time, the first 5 rounds must be fired in less than 5 seconds to satisfy the requirements; no more than 3 to 4 seconds can be allowed for top placements.Whether or not this disparity makes USPSA or IDPA revolver shooters superior as fighters to mere GIGN operators is left as an exercise for the reader.

[MandoWookie]

Let me try this again. Every mechanical device is liable to malfunction, if not breakage, outside of its performance envelope.

I understand that. My point is, if its performance envelope is so narrow that bobbing the hammer and removing serrations from the trigger face might possibly destroy its carefully balanced action, then how did it get the reputation as an indestructible service weapon?
150 rounds daily of magnums, even if done at a snail's pace, would put noticable wear on the action over time.
So were the weapons main pressure bearing components able to handle this, but the action timing had to be constantly corrected by unit armorers?
Because the 'legend' is of these fantastic French revolvers that could hold up to impossible amounts of rounds.
Yet you are alleging that a competition shooter will destroy his MR73 by running it too hard, ie putting it through the same regime he has done with guns that cost a 1/3rd of of it and still functioned correctly?
And who is talking about competition shooters of any discipline being better fighters than GIGN?

[zeleny]

I understand that. My point is, if its performance envelope is so narrow that bobbing the hammer and removing serrations from the trigger face might possibly destroy its carefully balanced action, then how did it get the reputation as an indestructible service weapon?
150 rounds daily of magnums, even if done at a snail's pace, would put noticable wear on the action over time.
So were the weapons main pressure bearing components able to handle this, but the action timing had to be constantly corrected by unit armorers?
Because the 'legend' is of these fantastic French revolvers that could hold up to impossible amounts of rounds.
Yet you are alleging that a competition shooter will destroy his MR73 by running it too hard, ie putting it through the same regime he has done with guns that cost a 1/3rd of of it and still functioned correctly? I am not in the habit of arguing with empirical findings. The MR73 action lasting indefinitely with GIGN split times of 0.6 to 0.8 is a known known. Its durability with Jerry Miculek split times of 0.14 to 0.20 is a known unknown.
To take another example, I can get the double action trigger weight on an MR73 down to 7.0 lbs, with reliable ignition of most all factory ammo variations*, just by trial and error wrenching of the externally adjustable mainspring and rebound spring** tension screws. Whether or not a similar state of tune can be achieved with a lightened hammer is a known unknown. Because physics. Conservation of momentum is a bitch.
And who is talking about competition shooters of any discipline being better fighters than GIGN?Somebody who got his panties in a bunch upstream over my juxtaposition of these tribes.

* In .357 Magnum factory ammo that I used, Fiocchi is an outlier with comparatively hard primers. In 9mm factory ammo, all bets are off with ignition of military surplus lots.

** Peak performance can be expected with the late pattern stamped rebound spring; not so much with the early forged type.

[JCN]

I can get 10,000 miles out of a race performance tire if I drive slowly in a straight line.

Or maybe 100 miles out of the tire and burn it up on a weekend.

I guess that’s the philosophical question.

If the original rating is for a use pattern I find boring and not applicable to my use… AND I’m willing to accept the financial repercussions of my personal use patterns….

You know what I’d say to someone who recommends I don’t modify my GT3 and shouldn’t run it hard because it might not last as long?

“Thanks. Duly noted.”

(In actuality zeleny I get what you’re saying. I have friends that run Ferraris or McClarens on track. If something breaks it takes forever to get replacement parts. It’s one of the reasons I chose Porsches because parts support is better which is one of your points. But if my friends understand that and still willingly and happily enjoy their stuff while it lasts, then more power to them. They usually have other vehicles or back ups if their primary goes down.)

[OlongJohnson]

There is some possibly useful discussion of reduced-inertia revolver hammers and functional results over at Benos.

The interwebs on that topic are easily 98 percent derp.

[MandoWookie]

[QUOTE=zeleny;1240073]I am not in the habit of arguing with empirical findings. The MR73 action lasting indefinitely with GIGN split times of 0.6 to 0.8 is a known known. Its durability with Jerry Miculek split times of 0.14 to 0.20 is a known unknown./QUOTE]

I'm not arguing with 'empirical findings', I'm asking questions. Such as if the action will last 'indefinitely' at what is still by any measure a very high tempo of use, how is it going to fall apart at faster speeds?

And does the lasting indefinitely mean it didnt go out of time or suffer parts breakages assuming that tempo of use, or did it require weekly or monthly maintenance by unit armorers to keep it working?

[Jim Watson]

One of the drills was the 7 meter fast response. It goes as follows: the gun is loaded with five .357 Magnum rounds and carried in a belt holster; in the pocket the shooter has 5 more loose .357 Magnum rounds. At the sound of a whistle, the range officers are given 25 seconds to fire the ten cartridges at the target located 7 meters away; the instructors have only 20 seconds.



Understandably, Msr Sasia being an FBI buff, this is the first stage of the original Pre WWII PPC, difference being that it was then shot with .38s, which would make a difference.
Reloading with loose ammo is a great difference. The FBI was shooting from the hip in those days, this doesn't say what the French were doing. But I used to have a picture of Msr Sasia shooting from the hip or more like Point Shoulder in a crouch after his trademark "bowling" draw.
I wonder, when they were shooting five shot strings, did they index the empty chamber after the reload, load six and fire five, or take it at random with a Click in there somewhere.

I doubt that sanding down the trigger serrations would affect the operation or durability. It sure doesn't on my cheap old American guns.
I have seen one (1.0) case of a bobbed hammer spur impairing ignition. The owner had to increase the mainspring to restore reliable operation, but it didn't snag any more. A Taurus.


The MR hammer is small and at an upward angle compared to US brands, I would not see a need to bob it. I have wondered why it was so small, being that a main use in the European civilian market would be ISSF shooting, done SAO. I see longer spurs on the Match models, but kind of blinded by the extension rear sight. In the old ISU Duel, you had seven seconds between shots, likely enough to find the spur. I guess Msr Maillard would freak out at the mention of a King's Cockeyed Hammer.

[RevolverRob]

There is some possibly useful discussion of reduced-inertia revolver hammers and functional results over at Benos.

The interwebs on that topic are easily 98 percent derp.

Send me a Link? I can't seem to find that through searching.

I look forward to seeing if the MR73 goes out of time with rapid shooting in splits half the time of original design. It appears there is no real knowledge on this point.

[OlongJohnson]

Send me a Link? I can't seem to find that through searching.

I look forward to seeing if the MR73 goes out of time with rapid shooting in splits half the time of original design. It appears there is no real knowledge on this point.

A couple that Google found:

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/104572-bobing-your-hammer/

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/31150-lower-mass-hammer-more-striking-energy/

I still haven't seen what I would consider to be a full analysis or discussion of it. I believe the best approach would be to start with, "A primer has just ignited," and work backward, including analysis in relevant realms of chemistry, physics, thermodynamics, materials, metallurgy, tribology, mechanics and dynamics. And the path is likely to branch repeatedly based on the various mechanizations of a firing mechanism. Seems more likely to build a correct understanding than starting at the other end, but that's just me.

[Jim Watson]

No,not that. The 1911 board has 22 pages on hammer/sear engagement, with multiple drawings and graphs. It got down to the Romper Room level pretty quick.

[zeleny]

I am not in the habit of arguing with empirical findings. The MR73 action lasting indefinitely with GIGN split times of 0.6 to 0.8 is a known known. Its durability with Jerry Miculek split times of 0.14 to 0.20 is a known unknown.I'm not arguing with 'empirical findings', I'm asking questions. Such as if the action will last 'indefinitely' at what is still by any measure a very high tempo of use, how is it going to fall apart at faster speeds? We can talk kinematics and dynamics and metallurgy till the cows come home, but our conclusions will be speculative for want of empirical findings. So Newton has force (F) equal to mass times acceleration, whereas Hooke has F = kΔL, where ΔL is the amount of deformation produced by the force F, and k is a proportionality constant that depends on the shape and composition of the object and the direction of the force. After a material has reached its elastic limit, further straining will result in plastic deformation, defined as a permanent, non-recoverable deformation. Plastic deformation is not linear with applied stress. Most steel alloys exhibit a gradual deviation from elastic, or recoverable, deformation, as plastic flow, or yielding, begins. Some steel alloys suffer a sudden deviation from elastic behavior at the yield point. Which is to say that a revolver action breaks two ways, like Ernest Hemingway’s Mike Campbell went bankrupt in The Sun Also Rises: “Gradually and then suddenly.”
And does the lasting indefinitely mean it didnt go out of time or suffer parts breakages assuming that tempo of use, or did it require weekly or monthly maintenance by unit armorers to keep it working?AFAIK, the referenced endurance tests involved no maintenance.

[zeleny]

There is some possibly useful discussion of reduced-inertia revolver hammers and functional results over at Benos.

The interwebs on that topic are easily 98 percent derp.Yeah, this (https://www.google.com/search?q=inertia+revolver+hammers+site%3Abrianenos .com). Brian Enos debars most all derp.

[jetfire]

The MR hammer is small and at an upward angle compared to US brands, I would not see a need to bob it.

The Trausch grip, which I rather like, places my strong thumb high enough on the faux-beavertail that the hammer spur can actually get into it if I don't have a well set up grip. Bobbing the hammer is eliminating a potential failure point while enjoying the recoil mitigation advantages of a high grip.

[Jim Watson]

Narrow hands, I am not bitten by several commonly offending automatics; 1911, BHP, P210-6; either.

[jetfire]

Narrow hands, I am not bitten by several commonly offending automatics; 1911, BHP, P210-6; either.

I have palms like dinner plates and short little sausage fingers. Turns out that's a good set up for recoil mitigation on a wheelgun

[OlongJohnson]

I have a hypothesis that hammer bite is more of a problem for fat hands than for large hands. I have had to sell XXXL gloves at a loss because they were too small (longish fingers), but I don't really have issues with hammer bite. Maybe I'm not holding high enough, but the web of my hand isn't squeezing up a lot of flesh into the danger zone when I grip a handgun.

[jetfire]

I have a hypothesis that hammer bite is more of a problem for fat hands than for large hands. I have had to sell XXXL gloves at a loss because they were too small (longish fingers), but I don't really have issues with hammer bite. Maybe I'm not holding high enough, but the web of my hand isn't squeezing up a lot of flesh into the danger zone when I grip a handgun.

I’ll grab some pics of the issue when I get off work today as an illustration

[UNM1136]

Narrow hands, I am not bitten by several commonly offending automatics; 1911, BHP, P210-6; either.

Personally never got bit until I got really aggressive, crush grippy with my Gen4 G17. Slide cut me early and often, till I got a grip force adapter...

pat

[Trooper224]

My issue is somewhat the opposite of Calebs. I have large hands, not gigantic, but XXL. They aren't very meaty or fatty, but I have long fingers and deep palms, with a lot of hollow space. Consequently, a gun sets very deep in my hand. A GI 1911 will bite the beejayzus out of my hand, as will a BHP. Every Glock model smaller than the 21 will result in slide lacerations. Smaller guns like a PPK or J frame? Forget about it.

[jetfire]

I’ll grab some pics of the issue when I get off work today as an illustration

Why I hate hammer spurs, in very large pictures:

1. The MR73 - in this photo you can clearly see the hammer spur making contact with my strong hand thumb, which depending on a number of variables could cause anything from a failure to fire in the worst case to slightly interrupting my smooth like butter trigger squeeze.

74066

2 and 3: a Ruger Super GP100 with competition grips and a GP100 10mm with compact grips. Same problem. The problem is the least significant with the compact grip, as there's simply less surface area for me to get my hand high up on the gun.

74067

74068

Now you're probably thinking "Caleb if you hate hammer spurs so much why don't these guns have bobbed hammers yet?" Ah well you see my child both of those are moon clip guns, and the hammer spur makes it easier for me to check moon clips to make sure they're not bent by slightly pulling back on the hammer to let the cylinder freewheel. The two non-clip guns I used extensively in 2020 both have bobbed hammers, and my 357 GP100s are getting their haircuts soon.

[OlongJohnson]

I thought I was using all the grip there is to use, because I'm all the way up and a little past the top. I think I do have longer fingers than you do.

It looks like your thumb is almost doing a "riding the safety on a 1911" where there's no safety, slide or even frame. On the Trausch grips, there has to be a huge air gap between the grip and your hand below the "beavertail" feature. And it looks to me like you're wrapped way around to the right in an "h grip" hold.

Ejumucate me. Can you really improve recoil control by gripping gun that isn't there? Or is it about making more room for a higher, firmer grip by the support hand?


Pics are my GP100 Match Champion. I have the Hogue NFG wraparound grip on it. I've shaved the speed loader relief to thin it a bit for more clearance, flattened out the hump in the middle of the back strap to make it straighter, and very slightly reduced the thickness around the sides at the very top where the thumb/web/index finger wrap it. All significant improvements, but changes that most people wouldn't notice unless they had the stock grip to compare to.

My trigger finger is indexed on the frame in the photos, but this grip puts the distal interphalangeal joint on the trigger face. That's with the full thickness wraparound on the Hogues. Trying to use the pad requires my finger to be pulled outward awkwardly, and screws up the balance of forces in the grip.

Final note on the photos, the camera was very close and shot with a wide angle, so parts of the image shrink disproportionately as you get farther from the center of the image. My hands are big, but at least a couple percent smaller than they look in these photos, proportional to the GP.

74072

74071

[jetfire]

I thought I was using all the grip there is to use, because I'm all the way up and a little past the top. I think I do have longer fingers than you do.

It looks like your thumb is almost doing a "riding the safety on a 1911" where there's no safety, slide or even frame. On the Trausch grips, there has to be a huge air gap between the grip and your hand below the "beavertail" feature. And it looks to me like you're wrapped way around to the right in an "h grip" hold.

Ejumucate me. Can you really improve recoil control by gripping gun that isn't there? Or is it about making more room for a higher, firmer grip by the support hand?

Here's the extent of the air gap, which isn't significant

74073

What this grip does is by positioning my strong hand even higher on the grip, it lets me get my support hand pinky finger in a better position to apply max-level leverage on the grip, which really is what drives recoil control. The best way to explain this principle: take an empty beer/pop can and crush it using your thumb and just three fingers, holding your pinky out like you're drinking tea in England. Your pinky will curl in because it's a sympathetic reflex. Now, get another pop can and crush it with a full grip. I guarantee you'll crush it easier with all four fingers than you did with three.

The pinky is the most underrated finger for controlling recoil, because it's in the best position to exert real leverage over the gun. A super high grip allows me to get both pinkies, and most importantly my support hand pinky to actually lever on the grip itself, which helps control recoil. A lower grip can push my support pinky into a position where it's just levering on my strong hand, which is useful but not as useful as interacting with the gun.

That's why when I was building the red dot revolver I picked the grips I did. Not for concealment, because they suck for that, but for shootin' more gooder

[revchuck38]

jetfire - It's a good thing you have short thumbs. ;) I'd be missing a part of my left one if I tried that grip.

I agree about the pinky. It's the reason my P99C mags all have pinky rests, and my J frames have Hogues. Geezerhood does not help with grip strength.

[Dave Williams]

jetfire have you ever tried the old timey revolver grip where the left thumb is back behind the right thumb, almost near the right wrist?

[jetfire]

jetfire have you ever tried the old timey revolver grip where the left thumb is back behind the right thumb, almost near the right wrist?

Yeah, I will use that with very compact revolvers firing hot rounds

[OlongJohnson]

74073

I went and tried what you're doing with the GP in the pics above, and none of it works with my hands. They simply don't fit on the gun that way. I guess we all need to remember that revolver grip is an individual thing.

It did give me an idea, though. I'm planning to duplicate the rubber Hogue in dead tree, but I may add an extension to the front to give my support pinky something to bear on. So good thoughts there. Will make a big gun even bigger...

[Stephanie B]

My issue is somewhat the opposite of Calebs. I have large hands, not gigantic, but XXL. They aren't very meaty or fatty, but I have long fingers and deep palms, with a lot of hollow space. Consequently, a gun sets very deep in my hand. A GI 1911 will bite the beejayzus out of my hand, as will a BHP. Every Glock model smaller than the 21 will result in slide lacerations. Smaller guns like a PPK or J frame? Forget about it.

My PPK chewed the shit out of my hand. I had to wear gloves to shoot it. Eventually, I took a mill file to the bottom edges of the slide and rounded it off a tad. That's all it took.

[jetfire]

I went and tried what you're doing with the GP in the pics above, and none of it works with my hands. They simply don't fit on the gun that way. I guess we all need to remember that revolver grip is an individual thing.

It did give me an idea, though. I'm planning to duplicate the rubber Hogue in dead tree, but I may add an extension to the front to give my support pinky something to bear on. So good thoughts there. Will make a big gun even bigger...

Yeah, revolver grip is highly dependent on way more factors than semi-auto grip. I’ve seen posts from lots of people who hate the Trausch grips on the MR73, for example.

[revchuck38]

My PPK chewed the shit out of my hand. I had to wear gloves to shoot it. Eventually, I took a mill file to the bottom edges of the slide and rounded it off a tad. That's all it took.

I bought a Polizei trade-in PP in .32 ACP while stationed in Germany in the 80s. It was stupid accurate but left parallel cuts in the web of my hand so I sold it. Wish I would've thought of that simple fix.

[Trooper224]

I bought a Polizei trade-in PP in .32 ACP while stationed in Germany in the 80s. It was stupid accurate but left parallel cuts in the web of my hand so I sold it. Wish I would've thought of that simple fix.

I have one like that made in '61. Great little shooter with a great trigger and those same issues. I just keep it around for its 007 cool factor and it's beautifully made.

[Stephanie B]

I have one like that made in '61. Great little shooter with a great trigger and those same issues. I just keep it around for its 007 cool factor and it's beautifully made.

Mine is an Interarms model, so I had no compunction about taking a file to it.

[Trooper224]

Mine is an Interarms model, so I had no compunction about taking a file to it.

Mostly, mine sits in the safe and cries out for a shoulder holster and a martini.

[Wingate's Hairbrush]

Anybody notice on the Beretta side you can sign up to be notified here are the models that you can be notified about:

https://www.beretta.com/en-us/manurhin/#dealersThis excellent catch didn't get its due amid the tangential dust-up and is worth some more discussion. Many more models than originally anticipated; does this change anything for anyone planning to buy one?

Anyone on the notification list get a hit yet? Thoughts on which dealer might be best to name as "preferred"?

[RevolverRob]

This excellent catch didn't get its due amid the tangential dust-up and is worth some more discussion. Many more models than originally anticipated; does this change anything for anyone planning to buy one?

Anyone on the notification list get a hit yet? Thoughts on which dealer might be best to name as "preferred"?

Word is - all the of the first and second imported runs are for the Beretta galleries.

I set my alerts for a 4" Gendarmerie version to the Beretta Gallery in Dallas.

But I also set an alert for a 3" Gendarmerie version for Buds.

[OlongJohnson]

But I also set an alert for a 3" Gendarmerie version for Buds.

Have you hit up Kebco? I thought he had a few of these left not too long ago, but they may be all gone by now.

[MandoWookie]

This excellent catch didn't get its due amid the tangential dust-up and is worth some more discussion. Many more models than originally anticipated; does this change anything for anyone planning to buy one?

Anyone on the notification list get a hit yet? Thoughts on which dealer might be best to name as "preferred"?

I'm curious what the MR88's are going to go for, and how they would compare to a GP100.

[RevolverRob]

Have you hit up Kebco? I thought he had a few of these left not too long ago, but they may be all gone by now.

I did not. My main reason is, it appears all the Beretta imported guns, Beretta will handle service or shipping back to Chapius for you. I honestly prefer to have Beretta handle it. Though maybe that is fallacious thinking.

[zeleny]

I can get 10,000 miles out of a race performance tire if I drive slowly in a straight line.

Or maybe 100 miles out of the tire and burn it up on a weekend.

I guess that’s the philosophical question.

If the original rating is for a use pattern I find boring and not applicable to my use… AND I’m willing to accept the financial repercussions of my personal use patterns….

You know what I’d say to someone who recommends I don’t modify my GT3 and shouldn’t run it hard because it might not last as long?

“Thanks. Duly noted.”Yeah, yeah. “There are only three sports, bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering, and all the rest are merely games.” As the generalized form of Sayre’s Law teaches us, the intensity of feeling in any dispute is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake. By way of corollary, that is why academic politics—and gamer arguments—are so bitter. All the more so in this short bus of gaming.


(In actuality zeleny I get what you’re saying. I have friends that run Ferraris or McClarens on track. If something breaks it takes forever to get replacement parts. It’s one of the reasons I chose Porsches because parts support is better which is one of your points. But if my friends understand that and still willingly and happily enjoy their stuff while it lasts, then more power to them. They usually have other vehicles or back ups if their primary goes down.)As the custodian of a 1974 Maserati Bora, I feel your friends’ pain. Nevertheless, in the instant matter, the salient point is that reasonably priced spare action parts for the MR73 are readily available, if you know where to look. In light of the track record of the French firearms industry, this supply is not going to last.

[Stephanie B]

Yeah, yeah. “There are only three sports, bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering, and all the rest are merely games.” As the generalized form of Sayre’s Law teaches us, the intensity of feeling in any dispute is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake. By way of corollary, that is why academic politics—and gamer arguments—are so bitter.

I saw that first hand when I was in law school. I resolved then and there that I'd rather eat a bullet than be a part of academia.

[Artemas2]

https://youtu.be/0v3oUU7uD14

[jetfire]

So fun update, after about 1300 rounds and double that in dry fire, my MR73 went out of time. After speaking directly with Chapuis, and exchanging some videos and emails, they're sending me new parts to fix it.

[RevolverRob]

So fun update, after about 1300 rounds and double that in dry fire, my MR73 went out of time. After speaking directly with Chapuis, and exchanging some videos and emails, they're sending me new parts to fix it.

What's the story on what is wearing out?

Did they say anything about it being out of spec?

Keep us updated.

By my count that's 3900 trigger presses? That's not a lot.

[jetfire]

What's the story on what is wearing out?

Did they say anything about it being out of spec?

Keep us updated.

By my count that's 3900 trigger presses? That's not a lot.

According to the french, "According to their expertise, the Cylinder Latch or Cylinder Latch Spring (parts 140 and 141 ) and have been damaged or weakened or the spring moved a little bit from its location"

This was determined from sending a video of me showing the failure mode and how it occurs when firing the gun rapidly double action. The funny thing is I never got around to modifying it in any way, this gun was stock as it came from the factory, all I did was run it like I'd run a GP100 or 686.

By comparison, my 10mm GP100 match champion has more than double that number of live rounds and triple the trigger presses, and it's fine. My 586 L-Comp has like 100 fewer rounds but a gojillion more trigger presses - also fine. I'm waiting until the parts get here from Froglandia and I do the fix before I offer a more informed opinion on what specifically caused the failure. It's a shame there aren't any qualified MR73 armorers in the states though.

[RevolverRob]

According to the french, "According to their expertise, the Cylinder Latch or Cylinder Latch Spring (parts 140 and 141 ) and have been damaged or weakened or the spring moved a little bit from its location"

This was determined from sending a video of me showing the failure mode and how it occurs when firing the gun rapidly double action. The funny thing is I never got around to modifying it in any way, this gun was stock as it came from the factory, all I did was run it like I'd run a GP100 or 686.

By comparison, my 10mm GP100 match champion has more than double that number of live rounds and triple the trigger presses, and it's fine. My 586 L-Comp has like 100 fewer rounds but a gojillion more trigger presses - also fine. I'm waiting until the parts get here from Froglandia and I do the fix before I offer a more informed opinion on what specifically caused the failure. It's a shame there aren't any qualified MR73 armorers in the states though.

If it's just a spring that's not a big deal. Hopefully it's an easy drop in fix. At this point you're guinea pigging this thing to find out if it will hold up to the rigors of hard, fast, shooting.

Frustrating though. Did the French give you any lip about "not shooting it that way"?

[Hambo]

all I did was run it like I'd run a GP100 or 686.

Maybe that's not a good thing. Awaiting further info after repairs.

[jetfire]

If it's just a spring that's not a big deal. Hopefully it's an easy drop in fix. At this point you're guinea pigging this thing to find out if it will hold up to the rigors of hard, fast, shooting.

Frustrating though. Did the French give you any lip about "not shooting it that way"?

They did not, although context is pretty difficult to infer via translated emails. I got the sense they were like “c’est la vie, shit happens when you party naked”

[OlongJohnson]

Is the out of time exhibited with it skipping chambers in rapid DA (dry-hopefully) fire? Any peening of the cylinder notches? Will be curious to see photos of the parts you replace.

One interesting detail I've noticed is that the ramps leading into the cylinder notches on the MR73 are kinda oval-shaped rather than straight as they are on S&W and Ruger revolvers, as if they were made with an olive-shaped cutter rather than a straight end mill. The MR73 ramps actually curve back downward as the cylinder stop approaches the notch. (A note on nomenclature: I am saying "downward" as the notch is oriented relative to the frame when the stop is moving "up" to engage the notch, but it would be "upward" if you think of "down" as into the notch, oriented the way you typically view a notch.) At speed, this could be expected to have the effect of dynamically reducing the engagement of the stop with the approaching far edge of the notch. I've worried about that and thought about reworking the notch ramps.

On my GP MC, there was a burr or raised lump at the end of each ramp where the ramp met the notch. As the stop rode the ramp up into the notch, at speed, the burr/lump would kick the hand back downward, reducing the engagement of the stop with the approaching far edge of the notch. Initially, I had some moderate peening from dry fire. When I noticed the peening and the raised burrs, I stoned the burrs out of the ramps so the ramps go smoothly all the way to the end and have a clean drop into the notch. I also stoned off the peening (love brushed stainless here) so the far side of the notches was flat/flush with the OD of the cylinder and looked new. Immediately on reassembly, I noticed the sound of the notch hitting the stop was just a little cleaner and more solid without that micro-tick when the stop hit the lump. Since then, I've done a ton of DA dry fire and there is zero additional peening.

Pleased with that result, I did the same thing on my M&P 340. You can see a sliver of silver on the blackened stainless cylinder at the end of each notch ramp, but I'm OK with that.

Essentially, I've put "deburr cylinder notch ramps" on my general revolver pre-use prep checklist. It's a high level of commitment to act on a belief that I know how to design the cylinder notch lead-in ramps better than Manurhin/Chapuis. I'm also kind of waiting for someone to come along and explain what I don't understand that makes the MR73's notches actually correctly designed.

[RevolverRob]

They did not, although context is pretty difficult to infer via translated emails. I got the sense they were like “c’est la vie, shit happens when you party naked”

Well, I mean they aren't wrong?

Good to hear.

I'm sort of - of the mind - springs are maintenance items. It's when you have to replace hard fitted parts after a short period of time that I get antsy.

Though I mean my GP100 is about like yours ~4000 rounds through it and probably another 4000 dryfire presses.

[FrankB]

So fun update, after about 1300 rounds and double that in dry fire, my MR73 went out of time. After speaking directly with Chapuis, and exchanging some videos and emails, they're sending me new parts to fix it.
I was just about to start selling some guns. Guess I’ll stick with my beautiful Smith&Wesson revolvers. 😁

[jetfire]

Is the out of time exhibited with it skipping chambers in rapid DA (dry-hopefully) fire? Any peening of the cylinder notches? Will be curious to see photos of the parts you replace.


It is doing exactly that. I have been traveling for a bit so I'm finally home with the gun at my workshop and a good magnifying glass

[OlongJohnson]

Just adding this to note that the cylinder stop spring on my M&P 340 was mis-installed the first time I opened it up, which was after the incompetent gun plumbers in S&W's warranty shop replaced the yoke. The spring was bent 90 degrees with the end that should have borne against the frame pointing toward the side plate. Basically, it appeared that the plumber just pushed the stop into place over the pin with the spring in the stop, and didn't take any care about making sure the spring was actually seated/positioned the way it was supposed to be. Kinda amazing it worked at all. Fortunately, the spring did not appear to have been damaged at all.

ETA: I've posted before that if I ever start in CAS, I'm hoping the name "Skip Chambers" isn't already taken.

[BN]

Several years ago when the USPSA guys were running 625s hard, the skip chambers thing came up. It had to do with the cylinder stop wearing and the bolt notches peening. You might find some info on Enos back before everybody switched to 8 shooters. Mike Carmoney and some others were working on it.

[Jim Watson]

I have always wondered if the -2 modification to delete the cylinder stop screw and plunger and just assemble by cramming the spring into a recess might not have contributed to skipping.

[03RN]

Several years ago when the USPSA guys were running 625s hard, the skip chambers thing came up. It had to do with the cylinder stop wearing and the bolt notches peening. You might find some info on Enos back before everybody switched to 8 shooters. Mike Carmoney and some others were working on it.

Do the 8 shot.357 not do that? Do 6 Rd k/l frames ever do that?

[RevolverRob]

Do the 8 shot.357 not do that? Do 6 Rd k/l frames ever do that?

All revolvers can do it, if the action is worked fast enough that the cylinder turns faster then the spring that powers the cylinder stop can work. Just some designs are better at engaging the cylinder stop earlier with more mechanical force. But those designs tend to have heavier trigger pulls.

It's why reducing the weight of the rotating mass (i.e. using a Ti cylinder) is a popular choice in competition guns. It's not only easier to turn that mass with less force, it's easier to stop it at the right time too.

--

One advantage if the oval/rounded notches on the cylinder is it reduces peening by spreading the force more uniformly across the notch and stop and eliminating sharp edge stress points. Downside is, it reduces the notch engagement surface.

It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that the cylinder stop spring needs to be replace regularly versus designs with a square/rectangular lockup. I bet picking the brain of a GIGN Armorer would be insightful.

[jetfire]

Several years ago when the USPSA guys were running 625s hard, the skip chambers thing came up. It had to do with the cylinder stop wearing and the bolt notches peening. You might find some info on Enos back before everybody switched to 8 shooters. Mike Carmoney and some others were working on it.

I have read those threads! They were very useful to me a few years ago diagnosing a fucking wrecked 627

[BN]

Do the 8 shot.357 not do that? Do 6 Rd k/l frames ever do that?

As I remember, it was mostly 625s. The bigger, heavier cylinder was some of the cause I think. Some were carrying spare bolts and springs to matches. Some changed to titanium cylinders. I don't remember everything.

I just went to Enos and did a search. I didn't find what I was looking for but found a post about a 929 that was skipping chambers.

Competition shooters get the cyclic rate up pretty high. ;)

[LittleLebowski]

Word has it that the next shipment of 4” guns is quite delayed.

[jetfire]

All revolvers can do it, if the action is worked fast enough that the cylinder turns faster then the spring that powers the cylinder stop can work. Just some designs are better at engaging the cylinder stop earlier with more mechanical force. But those designs tend to have heavier trigger pulls.

It's why reducing the weight of the rotating mass (i.e. using a Ti cylinder) is a popular choice in competition guns. It's not only easier to turn that mass with less force, it's easier to stop it at the right time too.

--

One advantage if the oval/rounded notches on the cylinder is it reduces peening by spreading the force more uniformly across the notch and stop and eliminating sharp edge stress points. Downside is, it reduces the notch engagement surface.

It wouldn't surprise me if it turns out that the cylinder stop spring needs to be replace regularly versus designs with a square/rectangular lockup. I bet picking the brain of a GIGN Armorer would be insightful.

Update: it was definitely the cylinder stop. See below for photo of the old cylinder stop side by side with the replacement that Chapuis sent me.

78424

The damaged stop on the right has developed a rounded edge where it interfaces with the cylinder notches, which is likely why it was skipping past cylinders in fast double action fire. What's interesting is I also noticed minute deformation on the cylinder notches themselves, which I'm going to keep an eye on.

[RevolverRob]

Update: it was definitely the cylinder stop. See below for photo of the old cylinder stop side by side with the replacement that Chapuis sent me.

78424

The damaged stop on the right has developed a rounded edge where it interfaces with the cylinder notches, which is likely why it was skipping past cylinders in fast double action fire. What's interesting is I also noticed minute deformation on the cylinder notches themselves, which I'm going to keep an eye on.

Interesante.

I'll be interested to see how this one holds up.

[Tamara]

Update: it was definitely the cylinder stop. See below for photo of the old cylinder stop side by side with the replacement that Chapuis sent me.

78424

The damaged stop on the right has developed a rounded edge where it interfaces with the cylinder notches, which is likely why it was skipping past cylinders in fast double action fire. What's interesting is I also noticed minute deformation on the cylinder notches themselves, which I'm going to keep an eye on.

Ugly. That's not an especially massive cylinder, either. It's not like the part's gotta halt a steel six shot N-frame .38/.357 cylinder in its tracks, which is hella hard on stops.

[FrankB]

jetfire That qualifies as battered! Not good at all, but I can now divert my attention elsewhere. Thanks for sharing this.

[jetfire]

Ugly. That's not an especially massive cylinder, either. It's not like the part's gotta halt a steel six shot N-frame .38/.357 cylinder in its tracks, which is hella hard on stops.

Yeah, what's interesting is that if this had been a MIM part, it's a lot less likely that this would have happened, you know? Since it's easier to get good quality control and heat treating on MIM, it's a lot harder to get a bad small part. I'm going to assume that's what happened here - the part wasn't heat treated correctly so it's way softer than it should have been, which is what smashed it up.

[AmericanIcon]

When talking with some friends after we heard the news, I (terribly) photoshopped one up on request. The length is in no way correct, probably like 2.36" barrel or something. Enjoy.

78428

[FrankB]

Charlize Theron took a short barrel MR73 from a French agent in Atomic Blonde. They became very, ummmm, friendly not long afterwards.

78429

[Sal Picante]

Charlize Theron took a short barrel MR73 from a French agent in Atomic Blonde. They became very, ummmm, friendly not long afterwards.

78429

I love "The Politics of Dancing"...

[zeleny]

All revolvers can [suffer the cylinder stop wearing and the bolt notches peening], if the action is worked fast enough that the cylinder turns faster then the spring that powers the cylinder stop can work. Just some designs are better at engaging the cylinder stop earlier with more mechanical force. But those designs tend to have heavier trigger pulls.

It's why reducing the weight of the rotating mass (i.e. using a Ti cylinder) is a popular choice in competition guns. It's not only easier to turn that mass with less force, it's easier to stop it at the right time too.This is half right as to identifying the underlying cause, but dead wrong as to the general claim. All it takes for a revolver to resist the wear of its cylinder stop and the peening of its bolt notches, in theory, is satisfying one metallurgical and two mechanical requirements:

The cylinder notches and the cylinder stop must be made from an appropriate alloy heat treated to the point of preventing their mutual impact from reaching the yield point of their material's stress-strain curve within the physiologically attainable speed of human trigger pull;
The cylinder must be light enough to keep its maximum rotational momentum within the elastic performance envelope of cylinder notches and the cylinder stop;
The cylinder stop must be light enough and sprung to the point of keeping up with the maximum rotational velocity physiologically attainable by human trigger pull.

Ensuring the compliance of manufacturing practice with the requirements of mechanical and metallurgical theory is left as an exercise for the reader.

[revchuck38]

I’ve got to wonder if competition-speed DA shooting is within the MR73’s design envelope, or is it something like a Python which was designed mainly for single-action shooting?

[zeleny]

I’ve got to wonder if competition-speed DA shooting is within the MR73’s design envelope, or is it something like a Python which was designed mainly for single-action shooting?The MR73 was designed and manufactured for social work within the parameters dictated by GIGN, based on the contemporaneous FBI training doctrine, which encompassed both single- and double-action shooting, depending on the tactical requirements of the moment. Sixgun gaming falls outside its remit.

[OlongJohnson]

I'm pretty sure K frames weren't designed with modern gaming DA shooting in mind, but they seem to live with it OK.

[falnovice]

Update: it was definitely the cylinder stop. See below for photo of the old cylinder stop side by side with the replacement that Chapuis sent me.

78424

The damaged stop on the right has developed a rounded edge where it interfaces with the cylinder notches, which is likely why it was skipping past cylinders in fast double action fire. What's interesting is I also noticed minute deformation on the cylinder notches themselves, which I'm going to keep an eye on.

Interesting. Please keep us posted on how the new part holds up.
I really want one of these, so I hope this is a one-off error on the heat treat or something.

[Rex G]

Hmm. Perhaps, the MR73 may actually do better when with fired with powerful Magnum loads, as the effects of recoil prevent the shooter from outrunning the mechanical limits of the mechanism? Or, when fired at street-relevant assessment speed, when fast split times are not the goal, the shooter does not outrun the mechanism. Or, old, slow shooters, like me, who cannot move that fast, anymore. ;)

Just some thoughts… ;)

[jetfire]

I’ve got to wonder if competition-speed DA shooting is within the MR73’s design envelope, or is it something like a Python which was designed mainly for single-action shooting?

I ran a modern Python for 2,000 rounds just as hard as I ran the MR73 and its cylinder stop is fine. I have been in constant communication with the French about this particular failure, and their reaction has in general been “shit happens when you party naked” or, to phrase it differently “shit breaks when you run guns hard.” Unlike some people, they’re unconcerned by a parts failure, likely because they build the damn things.

[Rex G]

I ran a modern Python for 2,000 rounds just as hard as I ran the MR73 and its cylinder stop is fine. I have been in constant communication with the French about this particular failure, and their reaction has in general been “shit happens when you party naked” or, to phrase it differently “shit breaks when you run guns hard.” Unlike some people, they’re unconcerned by a parts failure, likely because they build the damn things.

Good to know. Thanks.

[BWT]

The MR73 was designed and manufactured for social work within the parameters dictated by GIGN, based on the contemporaneous FBI training doctrine, which encompassed both single- and double-action shooting, depending on the tactical requirements of the moment. Sixgun gaming falls outside its remit.

I’m a nobody, but… a gun that’s supposed to be shooting over 100,000 .357 loads and showing minimal wear for a shooting org that works in hostage rescue. I’d assume some guy shooting it fast was expected and I’d hope it was a defective part and not because Caleb shot it too fast. I’m referring to “Sixgun gaming falls outside its remit”.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remit

[jetfire]

I’m a nobody, but… a gun that’s supposed to be shooting over 100,000 .357 loads and showing minimal wear for a shooting org that works in hostage rescue. I’d assume some guy shooting it fast was expected and I’d hope it was a defective part and not because Caleb shot it too fast. I’m referring to “Sixgun gaming falls outside its remit”.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remit

One of the things that's important to remember and that isn't discussed in the references to "11 hojillion rounds of 357 Magnum" is that GIGN and the Gendarmerie at the time they had MR73s also had full time gunsmith support, much the same as LAPD or LASD did in the 60s-80s. If during the course of their regular training schedule a small part like the cylinder stop fails, the operator/officer in question would simply hand the gun to an armorer, grab a fresh one from the armory, and go about his day while the armorer did the fixing. Since those records are basically impossible to get access to, there's no way of knowing what the failure rate of certain small parts was during regular training.

[BWT]

One of the things that's important to remember and that isn't discussed in the references to "11 hojillion rounds of 357 Magnum" is that GIGN and the Gendarmerie at the time they had MR73s also had full time gunsmith support, much the same as LAPD or LASD did in the 60s-80s. If during the course of their regular training schedule a small part like the cylinder stop fails, the operator/officer in question would simply hand the gun to an armorer, grab a fresh one from the armory, and go about his day while the armorer did the fixing. Since those records are basically impossible to get access to, there's no way of knowing what the failure rate of certain small parts was during regular training.

That makes sense, and I’m not questioning that but I just figured I’d voice we’d have found a defective part. Not your employment of the gun was “out of spec”.

[overton]

short barrel MR73

7869178691

[jtcarm]

Several years ago when the USPSA guys were running 625s hard, the skip chambers thing came up. It had to do with the cylinder stop wearing and the bolt notches peening. You might find some info on Enos back before everybody switched to 8 shooters. Mike Carmoney and some others were working on it.

When Smith was producing the 325 NG/PD guns, a lot of competitors had a Ti cylinder fitted to their 625s.

[jtcarm]

One of the things that's important to remember and that isn't discussed in the references to "11 hojillion rounds of 357 Magnum" is that GIGN and the Gendarmerie at the time they had MR73s also had full time gunsmith support, much the same as LAPD or LASD did in the 60s-80s. If during the course of their regular training schedule a small part like the cylinder stop fails, the operator/officer in question would simply hand the gun to an armorer, grab a fresh one from the armory, and go about his day while the armorer did the fixing. Since those records are basically impossible to get access to, there's no way of knowing what the failure rate of certain small parts was during regular training.

I suspect there was a lot of preemptive parts replacement done on a regular schedule.

[Clusterfrack]

Let's keep this on the (incredibly boring to me) topic of MR73 revolvers, and not lapse into personal issues. I've made a new thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?48837-Octagon-for-Jetfire-amp-Zeleney-fight) for this cagefight in the Romper Room section.

The Octagon thread is closed after one hundred and eight-two posts, and I'm not going to open a new one. zeleny, and anyone else involved in the latest spat, please keep this thread on the Hardware/Revolvers topic of the MR73.

Moved some off-topic posts to the closed Octagon thread.

[jetfire]

Plus, sample size of 1. Is there any confidence that the replacement stop is going to fair no better than the first?

This is a really important note: there is no evidence that I simply got a part that hadn't been correctly heat-treated, which interestingly is easier to avoid when you mass produce MIM cylinder stops. So far the new cylinder stop has held up fine, but I'm also not exactly chomping at the bit to go whack sub .20 splits out of this gun anymore. I have the paranoia that comes when a machine fails - let's say this cylinder stop is whacked too, but next time instead of discovering it in dry fire, I discover it when I get an off-center primer strike and launch a bullet into the side of the forcing cone.

Plus, this isn't the only MR73 that has this problem.

[jh9]

When Smith was producing the 325 NG/PD guns, a lot of competitors had a Ti cylinder fitted to their 625s.

The notch peening was interesting but really a product of a time range around the turn of the century and mostly restricted to stainless cylinders. IIRC. In addition to titanium some guys also scrounged up some blued 25 cylinders and rolled with that.

Here are some pics of one of my old IDPA guns and the notch peening from less than 10k (live fire, maybe 2.5-3x that dry). The big problem wasn't the shoulder, according to benos wisdom at the time, it was the ramp. When that got peened is when Skip came to town to ruin your match day.

https://i.imgur.com/FOzDQt7.jpg

More pics:
https://imgur.com/a/prSLBFv

Modern stainless cylinders don't peen so much so quickly. Fortunately it only deformed to a point and then stopped, but then I also never chased my splits below 0.2s in SSR. What can I say, we shot slower then.

[jetfire]

Modern stainless cylinders don't peen so much so quickly. Fortunately it only deformed to a point and then stopped, but then I also never chased my splits below 0.2s in SSR. What can I say, we shot slower then.

We shoot slow now too that's 1 point per second. I was aiming my ass off at the Illinois state match this year.

[OlongJohnson]

The big problem wasn't the shoulder, according to benos wisdom at the time, it was the ramp. When that got peened is when Skip came to town to ruin your match day.

That's because when the bottom of the ramp gets peened, it becomes a little bump that kicks the cylinder stop back away from the cylinder right as it should be starting to enter and engage the notch. That moves the impact point of the stop further up on the far side of the notch, reducing the engagement and possibly leading to skipping. My post several pages back in this thread described it in more detail, and also how S&W and Ruger cylinders are prone to be shipped with a burr at the bottom of the ramp that has the same effect.

[jh9]

That's because when the bottom of the ramp gets peened, it becomes a little bump that kicks the cylinder stop back away from the cylinder right as it should be starting to enter and engage the notch. That moves the impact point of the stop further up on the far side of the notch, reducing the engagement and possibly leading to skipping. My post several pages back in this thread described it in more detail, and also how S&W and Ruger cylinders are prone to be shipped with a burr at the bottom of the ramp that has the same effect.

I believe along a similar vein Carmoney described it like Evel Kenevil having a taller ramp to jump off.


We shoot slow now too that's 1 point per second. I was aiming my ass off at the Illinois state match this year.

I got out of IDPA around (or maybe before) the time they changed the scoring. Between that and combining SSR and ESR there was a lot of pontificating what would happen, but by then I think most of us (locally) had jumped into 8 minor with both feet.

[jetfire]

I got out of IDPA around (or maybe before) the time they changed the scoring. Between that and combining SSR and ESR there was a lot of pontificating what would happen, but by then I think most of us (locally) had jumped into 8 minor with both feet.

I was out from 2014-2018 because of Uncle Sam making me do Uncle Sam things, so when I went back the rules had changed. I will say that the ESR/SSR combination is weird, and I THINK that the winning way is shooting 38 out of speedloader guns, not major PF out of clipped guns. I shot my 40 S&W loads that make 165 at a match, and I felt like overall I was faster and a bit more accurate shooting 120 PF 38 Specials.

[falnovice]

This is a really important note: there is no evidence that I simply got a part that hadn't been correctly heat-treated, which interestingly is easier to avoid when you mass produce MIM cylinder stops. So far the new cylinder stop has held up fine, but I'm also not exactly chomping at the bit to go whack sub .20 splits out of this gun anymore. I have the paranoia that comes when a machine fails - let's say this cylinder stop is whacked too, but next time instead of discovering it in dry fire, I discover it when I get an off-center primer strike and launch a bullet into the side of the forcing cone.

Plus, this isn't the only MR73 that has this problem.

C'mon, this is for science!
And my wallet.

[OlongJohnson]

This is a really important note: there is no evidence that I simply got a part that hadn't been correctly heat-treated, which interestingly is easier to avoid when you mass produce MIM cylinder stops. So far the new cylinder stop has held up fine, but I'm also not exactly chomping at the bit to go whack sub .20 splits out of this gun anymore. I have the paranoia that comes when a machine fails - let's say this cylinder stop is whacked too, but next time instead of discovering it in dry fire, I discover it when I get an off-center primer strike and launch a bullet into the side of the forcing cone.

Plus, this isn't the only MR73 that has this problem.

I've been hesitating to make your first point, so I'm glad you mentioned it. I was kinda waiting for you to go out and fail the new one or not before I make any future decisions about owning one of these things. But I completely understand your caution. I wouldn't want to be the first guy to have an MR73 cylinder rupture in my hand, either.

I'd be curious to read more about other MR73s with stops peened to the point of skipping, if you're allowed to share your info.

[jetfire]

I'd be curious to read more about other MR73s with stops peened to the point of skipping, if you're allowed to share your info.

Sorry, to be clear the problem with the other MR73 that I'm aware of is that it's skipping chambers, it hasn't been confirmed that it's the cylinder stop rounding off yet. His gun is with Beretta in the states right now and has an unknown disposition as of yet.

[Rex G]

Well, this has been an interesting read, thus far.

[jtcarm]

Well, this has been an interesting read, thus far.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/d3YQCPcckxQiYibe/giphy.gif

[TicTacticalTimmy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klK_tHy_PdA

[Sal Picante]

Got some giraffe bone grips onto the MR73... Looks nice.
Much dryfire, no skipping cylinders... yet.

p/CaUy4ZCLnX8

[FrankB]

Les Pepperoni Great looking MR73! How do you like the brass bead relative to other options? TIA

[zeleny]

This one looks bad: MR73 Breech Face Wear After 500 Rounds - YMMV (https://www.reddit.com/r/Revolvers/comments/soovdm/normal_wear_of_the_breech_face_after_only_100/); following up: Very Disappointed: New Beretta Imported MR73 - abnormal breech face wear after only 100 rounds of .357 and the cylinder latch is binded.. No response from Beretta after a week of emails (https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/srd8fs/very_disappointed_new_beretta_imported_mr73/).

84872

Compare: MR73 Breech Face Wear After 500 Rounds - YMMV (https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/ssr1sk/mr73_breech_face_wear_after_500_rounds_ymmv/).

84873

I’ve handled, examined, and fired hundreds like the latter and none like the former.

[Sal Picante]

Les Pepperoni Great looking MR73! How do you like the brass bead relative to other options? TIA

It is nice! Since they're fixed sights, need to tailor the loading a bit for it, but, that's ok.

[Sal Picante]

Might need to find a smith that can clock, err "time", the barrel with a lead hammer for me... Gun shoots well, just prints groups too far for my liking...
about 2" to the right at 15 yards.

[marcin]

Other than the holsters made by Rusty Sherrick, of which I have one on order already, are there other holsters that work well with the MR73? Ideally something kydex? I tried a couple of K-Frame holsters and those don't seem to work well. I have one of the new, Beretta-imported 5.25" models.

[Flamingo]

Other than the holsters made by Rusty Sherrick, of which I have one on order already, are there other holsters that work well with the MR73? Ideally something kydex? I tried a couple of K-Frame holsters and those don't seem to work well. I have one of the new, Beretta-imported 5.25" models.

jetfire

Marcin... I am super excited for you! (I am excited to get a chance to shoot it as well).

[marcin]

jetfire

Marcin... I am super excited for you! (I am excited to get a chance to shoot it as well).

Greg, next range session we'll do revolvers :)

[JonInWA]

Other than the holsters made by Rusty Sherrick, of which I have one on order already, are there other holsters that work well with the MR73? Ideally something kydex? I tried a couple of K-Frame holsters and those don't seem to work well. I have one of the new, Beretta-imported 5.25" models.

You might want to avoid kydex-it'll quickly induce wear marks on the blueing at the high points where the revolver bangs against kydex when holstering and drawing. I recommend horsehide or quality leather.

Best, Jon

[marcin]

You might want to avoid kydex-it'll quickly induce wear marks on the blueing at the high points where the revolver bangs against kydex when holstering and drawing. I recommend horsehide or quality leather.

Best, Jon

Fair point, but setting blemish concerns aside for a second, are there actually any kydex holsters that would work? Or something suitable made from leather that could work for IWB carry and pass muster as suitable for use at a revolver class?

Pardon the basic questions, but revolvers are new to me and I'd rather not accumulate another large tote bin of discarded holster options for revolvers like I have with my autoloaders.

[JonInWA]

Fair point, but setting blemish concerns aside for a second, are there actually any kydex holsters that would work? Or something suitable made from leather that could work for IWB carry and pass muster as suitable for use at a revolver class?

Pardon the basic questions, but revolvers are new to me and I'd rather not accumulate another large tote bin of discarded holster options for revolvers like I have with my autoloaders.

A well constructed kydex and belt combination will work just fine; one of my favorites is a custom IWB Blade-Tech made for me probably 10-15 years ago, and with replcement rubber loops, soldier on just fine (the rubber eventually degrades and crumbles). Kydex really needs to be specifically molded to specific platforms, generally speaking, because of tighter tolerences than leather and horsehide, and no give in the material.

The problem you're likely to run into is lack of molds that kydex manufactureers have available; I'd check with the likely suspects and query them to see if they have/can get the proper mold.

Leather/horsehide is a bit more forgiving, as well as being easier on blued finishes. I'd check with p-f members who have expereince with MR 73s and similarly-sized S&W/Ruger/Dan Wesson/Colt revolvers and get a feel for what will work. These days for leather I prefer Privateer, Kramer and El Paso Saddlery, but I don't have a MR 73....

Other more genaric, but probaly eminently workable alternatives are the Bianchi MR 84R flap holster, and Galco's Switchback; while decent in their own rights, they could also tide you over until you get a more custom holster.

Best, Jon

[03RN]

I bet one of the safariland 568 holsters would work.
https://www.amazon.com/Safariland-Custom-Paddle-Finish-Holster/dp/B0012SPEV4?th=1&psc=1

The paddle is trash but they have a model that comes with the belt loop as well.

[jtcarm]

I bet one of the safariland 568 holsters would work.
https://www.amazon.com/Safariland-Custom-Paddle-Finish-Holster/dp/B0012SPEV4?th=1&psc=1

The paddle is trash but they have a model that comes with the belt loop as well.

+1 on the 558. That’s what I run in IDPA with a Model 66.

I use the paddle but it came with a belt loop too.

[Flamingo]

I got to shoot marcin MR73 and all I can say is WOW! It has the best double action trigger that I have ever used on a revolver.

[marcin]

Met up with Flamingo and a couple of other folks today, and we had ourselves a great time shooting revolvers. In addition to spending some more time MR73, I got to shoot some full powered 357 out of my 640 and it really wasn't that bad. I also learned that the trigger on the 38spl Astra revolver (S&W Model 10 clone?) is actually very, very good. And that Flamingo is a pretty damn good shot with his GP100
88667

[Flamingo]

I posted in the MR73 thread, but Man-o-man is the trigger on the MR73 Marcin has is sweet. The Astra trigger was way nicer than my GP100 trigger, but the MR73 trigger made me want to cry.

[Totem Polar]

Yo, marcin, is your MR73 a new production, or older?

Just curious. Hope you are well, brother. :)

[marcin]

Yo, marcin, is your MR73 a new production, or older?

Just curious. Hope you are well, brother. :)

It's a new one, bought early this year.

[R89074]

I don't carry my MR73 often , I found that it fits well in an El Paso # 88 Street Combat holster.
https://i.imgur.com/yjkEnRp.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/boq9sc0.jpg

[jtcarm]

Thanks a lot.

Just when I quit jonesing for an MR73, somebody HAD to bring this thread back to the top and post sexy pictures.

[marcin]

Thanks a lot.

Just when I quit jonesing for an MR73, somebody HAD to bring this thread back to the top and post sexy pictures.

It would be even sexier if someone had a lead on one of those surplus 3" MR73s from a few years ago that wasn't exorbitantly priced.

[jtcarm]

It would be even sexier if someone had a lead on one of those surplus 3" MR73s from a few years ago that wasn't exorbitantly priced.

That was a few years ago.

If any turn up now, they WILL be exorbitantly-priced.

[R89074]

There is a refinished fixed sighted MR73 on Gunbroker now. $2150 with just over 1 hour left to bid.

[marcin]

There is a refinished fixed sighted MR73 on Gunbroker now. $2150 with just over 1 hour left to bid.

I was eyeing it yesterday. My bank account was getting very nervous. Then I got distracted for a bit, and missed the auction cutoff.

I have no idea how good a price $2150 is -- I'm guessing that if it is on gunbroker, it's not very good?

[ccmdfd]

Whatever happened to these?

I had a couple of local dealers state they wanted to get one, but both have said they've never seen one available. I've looked on GunBroker a few times and never seen one either. By that I mean one of the new imports not the older versions.

[BillSWPA]

I had the chance to examine these at the NRA annual meeting. The DA triggers are absolutely amazing. However, I was not as impressed with the front sights, and did not care for the ramp type sights on some models.

[ccmdfd]

I had the chance to examine these at the NRA annual meeting. The DA triggers are absolutely amazing. However, I was not as impressed with the front sights, and did not care for the ramp type sights on some models.

Did they give an ETA for when they would be hitting the shelves?

[BillSWPA]

Did they give an ETA for when they would be hitting the shelves?

Unfortunately I did not ask that question.

[zeleny]

Did they give an ETA for when they would be hitting the shelves?I have it on excellent authority:

103651

[jetfire]

Whatever happened to these?

I had a couple of local dealers state they wanted to get one, but both have said they've never seen one available. I've looked on GunBroker a few times and never seen one either. By that I mean one of the new imports not the older versions.

Based on my actual real world experience working with Beretta and the French on this, their production numbers are pretty low; the initial run of guns sold out really quick, and making enough guns to do another run takes a bit of time (or so I was told) due to the significant amount of hand fitting that goes into each of these guns.

[Ben_G]

We're working to slowly ramp up the volumes out of France (without impacting the quality) and have been steadily importing these every month or two, but the volumes that's currently achievable on this line (with all the hand fitting) means it'll take a bit. This one is just one of those slow and steady things right now.

[marcin]

If someone's super keen on one, I have a 5.25" MR73 I picked up last year. Has maybe 250 rounds through it, and would come with a Rusty Sherrick leather holster for it. I haven't even sent in the registration paperwork to Beretta for the warranty... I like my 3" MR73 a lot more.