Beretta PX4 Storm - Underrated is an Understatement!

[JTQ]

Seen this term, but as someone relatively new here, no idea what SME means?
Subject Matter Expert

[Prdator]

Seen this term, but as someone relatively new here, no idea what SME means?

At this time the best I can tell you is not to worry about it. it has been redone and for good reason. It Was Subject Mater Expert and in ways I'm sad to see the idea go but it was and is for the best of everyone.

The greatness of the internet is it gives everyone a word, the magic of internet is knowing who to listen to.

[Gary1911A1]

Taking mine to the range today to shoot. I'm nowhere near 50,000 rounds like Ernest is going for, but I have decided to keep this pistol and will be looking into getting a holster for it soon. So far no malfunctions in about 1000 rounds of mostly hardball, shoots to POA, and nice trigger out of the box without a Wilson mainspring replacement.

[LangdonTactical]

Got my PX4 back from Beretta. They serviced it in 10 days.

They felt it was dirty and “void of lubrication.” Dirty is accurate (1900 rounds into a 2k challenge). “Void of lubrication” is not. It was oily to touch all over the barrel, slide rails, cam, and cam channel when I sent it in.

So, they cleaned, inspected, lubed, ran 34 rounds of Winchester 115 grain through it and sent it back. No changes to extractor or anything.

I don’t blame them for not changing anything given how intermittent my malfunctions are.

I know I can keep this pistol functioning reliably if I lube it every 300 rounds and fire hot ammo from it. That is not the exactly what I expected from it given the reputation it has gained in this thread. I also seem to be the only one having an issue.

I don’t think I care to put another 2000 through it in testing. On to testing 92s.

In the interest of helping increase the knowledge of this interesting, great shooting pistol:

What are members typical clean and lube intervals?

Grease on the cam or oil (I have used oil Beretta greased it.)?

While I am also disappointed in the testing Beretta did on your gun. I am not surprised. Truthfully that is what I should have expected given the fact that it would not be reasonable to fire more than that to test a gun.

Also, it is all but impossible to analyze malfunctions that are happening with someone else is shooting the gun. I have seen people that are having issues because of hand placement (normally thumbs) on the gun and causing the slide not to cycle properly. Often happens later in a range session as people get tired and the grip starts to change. I am not saying that you are doing this, but I have seen it happen many times over the years. This is also why manufacturers pick their test shooters carefully. When testing for a military contract, for example, there is no place in the reporting for shooter induced malfunctions.

I would really like to take a look at the gun personally and maybe shoot it a little to see what is going on.

Where do you live?

[Exiledviking]

Are the dimensions for the full-size PX4 Langdon special Ameriglo sights the same as the Compact? In the Compact thread the dimensions were listed as: "front sight width is 0.135", rear notch is 0.160"."

Is there any option for a narrower rear notch? I'd much prefer a notch closer to 0.150".

Also, I am pretty sure that I read in one of the threads that the front sight was closer to 0.125"?

[badf00d]

LangdonTactical - you seem surprised at the issues Enel is having with his PX4, so it has me curious. I had a failure within the first 30 rounds on my mod4. I now have 2443 rounds through it, with a total of 9 failures. I'm not counting any failures to lock back when empty because those can be attributed to my thumb touching the slide lock.

My brother has a P320 that has never had a single failure over roughly 1400 rounds. What should be the expectation from a PX4?

[MSparks909]

I'm not EL, but I have over 9,000 rounds through my 6 PX4s since April...zero malfunctions in normal range use (my Torture Test PX4 had multiple malfunctions but that's an abnormal situation). My highest round count PX4 CC has 6,200 rounds and my others vary between 500-1000+. I'll be showing my full sizes a lot more love in the coming months once I get my other PX4 CCs to at least 2,000 rounds each. All have very positive ejection.

[LangdonTactical]

LangdonTactical - you seem surprised at the issues Enel is having with his PX4, so it has me curious. I had a failure within the first 30 rounds on my mod4. I now have 2443 rounds through it, with a total of 9 failures. I'm not counting any failures to lock back when empty because those can be attributed to my thumb touching the slide lock.

My brother has a P320 that has never had a single failure over roughly 1400 rounds. What should be the expectation from a PX4?

I am surprised, as I have almost one hundred thousand rounds through 5 different compacts (about 30K of that fired by my wife through two different PX4 Compacts) with fewer issues than you describe in all of those rounds fired. There are quite a few people on this forum that have PX4s that have had no issues. I have over 36,000 rounds through a full-size PX4 with fewer issues that you have had in just over 2,000 rounds.

Your brothers experience with a different gun has little to no impact here as well. There is a list of guns that have completed the 2,000 challenge on this forum including multiple PX4s, both compact and full-size, as well as some 320s. So the fact that your brothers gun is working well for him is not surprising at all.

I also don't know what kind of failures you're having. But if you slide is not locking back to the rear on the last round, that also indicated incorrect thumb placement, and I would have to know idea if it is leading to other issues or not.

You have two different people shooting two different guns with two different results. That part is not surprising at all.

[badf00d]

I am surprised, as I have almost one hundred thousand rounds through 5 different compacts (about 30K of that fired by my wife through two different PX4 Compacts) with fewer issues than you describe in all of those rounds fired. There are quite a few people on this forum that have PX4s that have had no issues. I have over 36,000 rounds through a full-size PX4 with fewer issues that you have had in just over 2,000 rounds.

Your brothers experience with a different gun has little to no impact here as well. There is a list of guns that have completed the 2,000 challenge on this forum including multiple PX4s, both compact and full-size, as well as some 320s. So the fact that your brothers gun is working well for him is not surprising at all.

I also don't know what kind of failures you're having. But if you slide is not locking back to the rear on the last round, that also indicated incorrect thumb placement, and I would have to know idea if it is leading to other issues or not.

You have two different people shooting two different guns with two different results. That part is not surprising at all.

You're welcome to try mine first hand. Hell, I'd even smoke some brisket or pork ribs if you like either one of those. :)

[LangdonTactical]

You're welcome to try mine first hand. Hell, I'd even smoke some brisket or pork ribs if you like either one of those. :)

Where do you live, I LOVE BRISKET :)

[Bill]

+1 in for brisket. Will bring ammo and/or wife’s famous smoked bacon bbq baked beans...

[Doc_Glock]

I would really like to take a look at the gun personally and maybe shoot it a little to see what is going on.

Where do you live?

Sent message.

I would love to have you look at it some time.

I have a PX4 compact that ran 2000 rounds uncleaned and lubed only at start in my hands with zero malfunctions or difficulty so I am familiar with the platform. I don’t know if the full sized is possibly more touchy from a shooter perspective?

[FrankB]

Alright! My Beretta holster just arrived, and I love it as much as the Beretta holster I use for my M9. They’re both minimalistic, and I can’t feel the pistol, even when seated cross legged (like now). I had been using Foxx Little Fox holster, but it’s huge compared. The hole in my pants is from carrying my M9, and I wear that hole proudly...lol! In 1978, I had an MG Midget. At 6’1”, getting in and out result in a tear on the left rear pocket of ALL of my pants. The price you pay for fun...
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[awp_101]

How does the grip size compare to the 92? The 92 grip is too big for me to comfortably manipulate the controls or trigger in a natural way.

It may have been addressed in one of the 500+ previous posts, but I haven't seen it...

[Bigghoss]

My compact is much smaller than my 92's. Most guns I try to make the grips as small as possible, the PX4 is the first one where I'd consider going with the largest backstrap.

[awp_101]

My compact is much smaller than my 92's. Most guns I try to make the grips as small as possible, the PX4 is the first one where I'd consider going with the largest backstrap.

Thanks. The 1911/BHP/K Frame sizes are most comfortable to me. G19/26 size frames are doable with the G30 barely useable, but the 92 and 229 size frames simply put the trigger too far away. Sounds like I need to find a 9mm PX locally to handle.

[Bigghoss]

Thanks. The 1911/BHP/K Frame sizes are most comfortable to me. G19/26 size frames are doable with the G30 barely useable, but the 92 and 229 size frames simply put the trigger too far away. Sounds like I need to find a 9mm PX locally to handle.

I think the PX4 might work for you.

[holmes168]

I'm going to try to convert my PX4 into a G model this evening. Yeah- I bought one last night. This will be the first time I've tried to work on a gun- hopefully this isn't too hard. I did watch Mr GunsnGear's video. Doesn't look too rough.

[DAB]

I'm going to try to convert my PX4 into a G model this evening. Yeah- I bought one last night. This will be the first time I've tried to work on a gun- hopefully this isn't too hard. I did watch Mr GunsnGear's video. Doesn't look too rough.

it's easy.

you DO NOT need to remove the extractor.

lube it, work it a few times until its smooth and doesn't stick.

[holmes168]

it's easy.

you DO NOT need to remove the extractor.

lube it, work it a few times until its smooth and doesn't stick.

Everyone cross their fingers lol. I read you didn't have to remove the extractor. Since I've never done any of this- I probably will- 1. For the experience and 2. So my brain just works in order along with the video.

[DAB]

it's a needless step. the extractor has nothing to do with the decocker. just use proper sized punches. and make sure you don't have any spare parts left over. these are not Chevys.

[MSparks909]

it's a needless step. the extractor has nothing to do with the decocker. just use proper sized punches. and make sure you don't have any spare parts left over. these are not Chevys.

X2. And truthfully, you don't even need to remove the safety all the way to punch the detent out. Move it as far as you need, punch the detent out then put it all back together. Takes 5 minutes.

[holmes168]

X2. And truthfully, you don't even need to remove the safety all the way to punch the detent out. Move it as far as you need, punch the detent out then put it all back together. Takes 5 minutes.

How hard can I beat on the pin to get the safety "wings" off? I just busted a punch!

[DAB]

should be a 1/16" pin. i'm guessing your punch was too long.

[EricM]

Are you certain the pin is aligned with the channel in the slide?

It's a 2mm pin.

[Doc_Glock]

How hard can I beat on the pin to get the safety "wings" off? I just busted a punch!

Make sure you have the safety slightly flexed and the pin lined up with the channel on the slide.

[holmes168]

Step away from the ledge everyone, I did it!
Slightly more than 5 minutes, but I feel very accomplished.

Will test it out on live fire Saturday, but when pulling the hammer back, I push the decocker down and the hammer snaps up. Decocker returns to a fire mode.

Thanks to everyone who helped me.

I probably need a better punch set overall.

[awp_101]

I think the PX4 might work for you.

After fondling one this afternoon, I think so too...

[holmes168]

This seems to work20794
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[holmes168]

Wow- the PX4 is an awesome shooter. I loved shooting it- the DOT Torture at 3 yards was my best ever. I will say WHO was an adventure.
Thinking very seriously about spending the rest of my "gun cash" on the PX4CC this weekend.
Shocking how good these Beretta's are. Wish the Army had actually taught me to shoot it a few years ago.
Loving these PX4's and looking forward to my Langdon M9.

[Cory]

Wow- the PX4 is an awesome shooter. I loved shooting it- the DOT Torture at 3 yards was my best ever. I will say WHO was an adventure.
Thinking very seriously about spending the rest of my "gun cash" on the PX4CC this weekend.
Shocking how good these Beretta's are. Wish the Army had actually taught me to shoot it a few years ago.
Loving these PX4's and looking forward to my Langdon M9.

I wish they had really taught me as well. I think that is the real problem with the Army's viewpoint on handguns. They are ditching the M9 pistol partly because it isn't "Modular" and doesn't fit the hands of enough people. But they never stop to think if the people really know how to shoot. Hand fitment is important, but it really isn't the whole picture and I feel like the Army doesn't get that. I know that a lot of the training material and curriculum that I used when teaching the M9 emphasized the fundamentals, but big Army doesn't give enough attention to practicing them enough to be a proficient shooter.

Seeing everyone's results with a Px4C makes me want one, eventually. I've handled a Mod0 and liked it, except that the decocker seemed almost too flush. It wasn't easy to manipulate with my dominate hand. The other day a local flea market had a Px4 Inox LNIB for $350 and go. I knew it was a good price but didn't have the cash. Plus with the number of upgrades to get it similar to the CC I might as well start that route anyway. Maybe in a few years I'll do that.

-Cory

[JohnN]

Are there any updates on Ameriglo sights with fiber optic front for the full size PX4?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[LangdonTactical]

Are there any updates on Ameriglo sights with fiber optic front for the full size PX4?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I sent a message out yesterday asking. I am currently waiting on the second set of sights to give them a try. I am hoping to get this nailed down soon, but I also understand that making prototype sights takes time.

[Exiledviking]

Well, hanging out here on PF is trouble..
I just bought another FS PX4 on GunBroker for $390.00 shipped. The one I bought back in February disappeared once my father shot it. He's lovin it. I think I got to shoot it once.
So, what's a guy do to but buy another one for himself so that he can shoot one when I want to.

Now I am looking at ordering a WC chrome silicon 12 lbs spring and some Talon Grips for it. Anyone have any 10 rounds mag laying around they're not using?
The plan is to get 500 rounds thru it to get familiar with it and then possibly change out the sights. That is of course after changing the safety over to decocker only.

[Doc_Glock]

Just a quick heads up: I have around 20 mags and have had this base plate slipping off problem on only one of them. I noticed it while loading.

It was easily fixed by bending the locking tab slightly. Problem solved, but you might want to check that your base plates lock on nicely.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171016/4be7b2ab5d5d0c8b366ee9eec5a868c7.jpg

[357carbine]

"Beretta PX4 Out of the Box to the Match Review!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kXgy8wtkpA

[Palmetto]

All got an email earlier for a PX4 Accessory sale at Beretta USA website. 20% every PX4 accessory with the code:

PX4SAVE

Happy shopping. I just checked out with the code. There is less in stock than a few moments ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[LangdonTactical]

Rolled over 38,000 yesterday. Gun has been running great, I have under 12,000 to go to finish the test and it seems like there is no reason that it should not finish up without a hitch. I should have no problem shooting 12k between now and SHOT Show.

I did re-stipple the grip a little bit as it was getting a little slick, just from use I guess.

Still waiting on the second round of fiber optic sights from Amriglow. At this point, they had better hurry up or I will be done ;-)

[holmes168]

Rolled over 38,000 yesterday. Gun has been running great, I have under 12,000 to go to finish the test and it seems like there is no reason that it should not finish up without a hitch. I should have no problem shooting 12k between now and SHOT Show.

I did re-stipple the grip a little bit as it was getting a little slick, just from use I guess.

Still waiting on the second round of fiber optic sights from Amriglow. At this point, they had better hurry up or I will be done ;-)

I could have missed it, but is there any chance of a full size Langdon PX4 hitting the shelves?

[LockedBreech]

I could have missed it, but is there any chance of a full size Langdon PX4 hitting the shelves?


We are working on a full-size PX4 package now. I am waiting to hear back from the Italians at this point. I have some pretty grand plans that will take a little more than what we did with the compact. Hopefully, we will get there.

- Posted by E/L on 9-28-17

[holmes168]

- Posted by E/L on 9-28-17

Thanks- I’d gotten up to page 41 on the thread. Hate it when things get lost.

[LockedBreech]

Thanks- I’d gotten up to page 41 on the thread. Hate it when things get lost.

No worries, happy to help. Look away from these runaway Beretta threads for ten minutes and you're toast :)

[LangdonTactical]

Just a quick heads up: I have around 20 mags and have had this base plate slipping off problem on only one of them. I noticed it while loading.

It was easily fixed by bending the locking tab slightly. Problem solved, but you might want to check that your base plates lock on nicely.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171016/4be7b2ab5d5d0c8b366ee9eec5a868c7.jpg

This was the reason that the Maryland State Police dropped the PX4. I believe Beretta has fixed this problem with the latest generation of magazines and I have not had the issue at all. The catch plate on the current PX4 magazines and magazine extension are as solid as they come in my opinion.

[holmes168]

We are working on a full-size PX4 package now. I am waiting to hear back from the Italians at this point. I have some pretty grand plans that will take a little more than what we did with the compact. Hopefully, we will get there.

Just wanted to see if there were any updates. I know Beretta has been busy!

[LangdonTactical]

Just wanted to see if there were any updates. I know Beretta has been busy!

I think there will be one for sure, how soon it comes out is a whole other issue.

[LangdonTactical]

So I can see the light at the end of the tunnel at this point. 41,690 as of yesterday and everything is going just fine. I have not replaced anything in a while and likely will not do anything else other than sights and cleaning until the end of the test.

I have been playing with another prototype fiber optic from AmeriGlo. It is a .115" wide FO with a pretty large red rod. The red rod gave up the ghost yesterday. I think it was right at 600 rounds with it disappeared. I have replaced it with another rod in green, we will see how that holds up.

To be honest, I prefer the square orange sight at this point. I think I am going to try to get him to make a nonnight sight version of the Orange Square, at about .120" wide. I think that would match up really well with the normal rear notch that comes on the night sight version.

We will see.

[JTQ]

To be honest, I prefer the square orange sight at this point. I think I am going to try to get him to make a nonnight sight version of the Orange Square, at about .120" wide. I think that would match up really well with the normal rear notch that comes on the night sight version.

We will see.
That's just an orange square, like the Langdon 92, without tritium?

[LangdonTactical]

That's just an orange square, like the Langdon 92, without tritium?

No, more like the Compact Carry sight, but without the tritium and thinner.

[JTQ]

... but without the tritium and thinner.
I'd like this.

[LangdonTactical]

I'd like this.

Yeah, the more I shoot this fiber optic sight the more I think I would like the thinner painted one. Sometimes I find that the fiber is too bright and it makes it hard to see the outline and top of the front sight. I don't have that issue with the other sight with just the orange paint.

[LangdonTactical]

I shot 600 rounds this weekend in the Tactical Pistol Skills class. More than normal for demos in a class for sure and stayed a little late each day to shoot a little more. That puts me at 42,290 as of today.

One of the things I think I need to do is calculate how many of these rounds were fired in front of people. I have taught 20 classes this year with about 14 students in each class on average. I normally shoot about 450 rounds for demos in front of each class. By my math, that is about 9000 rounds of this test that has been fired in front of at least 280 witnesses.

Those are just ballpark numbers, but it seems kind of cool to me.

[BigT]

Yeah, the more I shoot this fiber optic sight the more I think I would like the thinner painted one. Sometimes I find that the fiber is too bright and it makes it hard to see the outline and top of the front sight. I don't have that issue with the other sight with just the orange paint.

I find a slightly dimmed green fibre gives me a pretty much perfect front sight to fibre ratio fwiw.

[LockedBreech]

FYI, Classic Firearms appears to have Type-C .45 Auto PX4s for $349, new in box. Great deal on a pretty rare variant.

[Bigghoss]

FYI, Classic Firearms appears to have Type-C .45 Auto PX4s for $349, new in box. Great deal on a pretty rare variant.

It's a Black Friday deal so better order quick.

[LangdonTactical]

OK, so as of today I have 44,210 rounds through the Full-Size PX4. Another class this past weekend and the gun ran flawlessly for another 500 rounds of demos as well as a 20 round mag from a student of Federal 115 AE.

At this point, I plan to finish the test as is with no more changes to the gun. I hope to get another 1000 rounds in this week and maybe another 1000 next week.

Only 7 weeks until SHOT Show, so there is no time to back off.

[Bodhi]

Wanted to say thanks to EL for taking time out of his busy day to respond to a part question. Thank goodness my refinishers found it.
My PX4’s will be complete next week and I’m looking forward to beating on them and doing a review of all the work.

Seeing EL hit milestones on round counts inspires more and more confidence into the platform. The DA/SA Renaissance.....

[LangdonTactical]

So today I discovered that I had a major broken part in the gun. I say discovered because I did not know it was broken until I took the gun apart. 22188

Yesterday I shot 500 rounds through the gun and had two malfuntions, first ones in quite some time. One FTE and one FTF. So I figured it was time to at least do a light cleaning and add some lube. Round count this morning when I found the break was 44,710 rounds. Last time I had the gun apart was at 42,740. So I guess it could have happened anything in the last 1970 rounds, but my guess is that it happened yesterday sometime during the last 200 rounds of that session and that is why the two malfunctions.

So the good news is that if the cam block breaks it does not shut the gun down. The bad news is I really don't know when it broke, or when it first cracked and started to be an issue. I do know that I noticed a few times this weekend during demos that the gun was running a little "clunky". So the crack was likely already there.

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Also, I replaced the cam block with one from my back up gun (very low round count PX4 full size) and shot 550 rounds today with no issues. Beretta has a Super Duty Cam Block on the way to me, a $55 part.

The other good news is it lasted much longer than a 92 locking block does and the gun keeps running when it is broken, or at least mine did.

Total round count is 45,260 right now.

The other thought that came to my mind is that I am not sure this would happen had I not been running the gun so hard. I have been shooting this gun much harder than I would ever shoot a gun just for normal use. 500 to 600 round sessions have become the norm, which is twice what I would normally shoot for practice. I have been to the range 128 times shooting this gun since January.

All in all, I am very happy with the results.

[LOKNLOD]

That's really interesting.

I bought a PX4 Fullsize on wednesday. I just ordered levers and a few parts from Beretta, and saw the super duty block. Maybe I should have added one...

Will Beretta take a look at it or give any feedback? I'd be interested to hear what they say. I wonder if there is a designated replacement interval on them? Or what may have contributed (running the recoil springs past life cycle?)

[JTQ]

Thanks for the report. That is an interesting looking break.

[LockedBreech]

Thanks for the report EL. 40K+ is a pretty solid survival time for a locking block. I'm stunned the gun kept running with it broken like that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigghoss]

...and saw the super duty block. Maybe I should have added one...

Considering Mr. Langdon was doing an endurance test and it still went over 40,000 rounds, you're probably good to hold off a bit on that. I'm sure most of us would get even more life out of one.

[LOKNLOD]

Considering Mr. Langdon was doing an endurance test and it still went over 40,000 rounds, you're probably good to hold off a bit on that. I'm sure most of us would get even more life out of one.

Indeed, perhaps my humor there was a bit drier than normal.

Considering I've had the gun 2 days and haven't shot it yet, durability concerns are definitely a bit premature...

[LangdonTactical]

That's really interesting.

I bought a PX4 Fullsize on wednesday. I just ordered levers and a few parts from Beretta, and saw the super duty block. Maybe I should have added one...

Will Beretta take a look at it or give any feedback? I'd be interested to hear what they say. I wonder if there is a designated replacement interval on them? Or what may have contributed (running the recoil springs past life cycle?)

It will go back to Beretta for sure. I will also be interested to hear what they have to say.

I don't think the SD locking block is any more durable, it just has the DLC coating on it to help with friction and such.

[LangdonTactical]

By the way, I am not stopping. Only about 4,800 rounds to go at this point.

[e_stern]

It will go back to Beretta for sure. I will also be interested to hear what they have to say.

I don't think the SD locking block is any more durable, it just has the DLC coating on it to help with friction and such.

I will be sending it back to BITA for analysis, so we'll see what they say once we get it in house.

I actually have never seen a block break on a PX4, ever, but the endurance test that Ernest is running is not a typical type of test.

The SD block is a standard block coated with DLC.

[Clobbersaurus]

That is pretty damn impressive that the gun kept running after the part breakage.

Can’t wait to see the results final results of the test!

[Swamp Buddy]

That is pretty damn impressive that the gun kept running after the part breakage.

Can’t wait to see the results final results of the test!

+1

[arcfide]

Very interesting to finally see a parts breakage on the gun. LangdonTactical, do you follow a standard recoil spring replacement schedule? I can't remember whether you did that or if you mentioned that you replace them at less frequent intervals?

I wonder how much recoil spring replacement intervals are related to frame and locking block damage, because a lot of the reports of such damage that I see leave no indication as to whether regular recoil spring replacement intervals were followed, and it appears to be a very common practice to keep recoil springs running in guns much longer than the recommended replacement. I've heard a number of folks indicate that they don't bother replacing recoil springs until they "see a problem," but this has always struck me as odd, because the problems you are trying to prevent with regular spring replacements are those that go unnoticed until major damage is already done.

I know that when I was using my Px4 for dry firing practice, I needed to replace my trigger spring about once a year because it would break consistently around the same time each year.

[LangdonTactical]

Very interesting to finally see a parts breakage on the gun. LangdonTactical, do you follow a standard recoil spring replacement schedule? I can't remember whether you did that or if you mentioned that you replace them at less frequent intervals?

I wonder how much recoil spring replacement intervals are related to frame and locking block damage, because a lot of the reports of such damage that I see leave no indication as to whether regular recoil spring replacement intervals were followed, and it appears to be a very common practice to keep recoil springs running in guns much longer than the recommended replacement. I've heard a number of folks indicate that they don't bother replacing recoil springs until they "see a problem," but this has always struck me as odd, because the problems you are trying to prevent with regular spring replacements are those that go unnoticed until major damage is already done.

I know that when I was using my Px4 for dry firing practice, I needed to replace my trigger spring about once a year because it would break consistently around the same time each year.

So I have been replacing the recoil spring every 10,000 rounds until this last 20K. In the visit to Beretta Italy, I learned that the gun is designed from the beginning to last 20k without changing any parts on the gun at all. The Validation process at Beretta Italy on the PX4 is a minimum 5 guns and 20,000 rounds each. Any part that gets changed on the gun, to include sights, requires that it go through a build-up of 5 samples and that 20K validation process. Since learning that, I decided to leave everything alone for the last 20,000 rounds.

I still think replacing the recoil spring every 10k on this gun is a good policy. On the 92 I normally suggest every 5K on the recoil spring unless it is the Wilson Combat CS spring. Which I think last much longer and will likely to 10 or 15K.

[arcfide]

Thanks for the update and explanation! I wish there were a better way to judge the age and remaining life in a recoil spring so you could be sure to know when to replace it. It seems like one of the biggest maintenance guess works around.

I'm pleased to hear about the validation requirements for the Px4. :-)

[MSparks909]

Thanks for the update and explanation! I wish there were a better way to judge the age and remaining life in a recoil spring so you could be sure to know when to replace it. It seems like one of the biggest maintenance guess works around.

I'm pleased to hear about the validation requirements for the Px4. :-)

Log your rounds fired. I keep track of all of mine on the Notepad app on my iPhone. Uploads it to the Cloud so I’ll never lose count even if I break my phone. Something to consider.

[arcfide]

Log your rounds fired. I keep track of all of mine on the Notepad app on my iPhone. Uploads it to the Cloud so I’ll never lose count even if I break my phone. Something to consider.

I agree that's a great thing to do, but it wouldn't help in this situation. I'm not saying that it's too hard to just say, "I'll replace every X rounds/cycles." I'm saying that you don't actually know what that's giving you for the effort. There appears to be know way to easily determine where the spring is in its life cycle in terms of pressures exerted on the other parts. For example, just because Beretta designs the Px4 to go 20,000 rounds without a parts breakage doesn't mean that it's a good idea to go that far before replacing any parts.

In the case of the locking block and the recoil springs, it's not at all clear how the life of the locking block is related to the life of the recoil spring. It seems like increasing recoil spring replacement interval size should have an effect on the long term life of the locking block, but it's not clear that this relationship is proportional. So, if we changed recoil springs every 5,000 rounds, would the locking block last 4 times longer than it would have if we had only replaced the recoil spring every 20,000 rounds?

Moreover, every spring is slightly different. You can imagine getting a slightly bad spring that wears out a little bit faster than another. Unless the spring is wildly out of specifications, there's no clear way to determine that you are increasing overall wear with that weaker spring.

It would be nice to be able to see the relationship between recoil spring replacement intervals and the long term lives of certain parts, but there doesn't seem to be a way to measure this except through statistics, which would be very expensive in this case.

I do know that the trigger spring tends to break on my Px4's somewhere in the 15,000 to 20,000 cycles range based on dry fire. This has happened consistently with all the springs I've used.

[DAB]

After 20,000 rounds, at say 20 cents each, you have spent $4,000 on ammo. Just buy a new pistol.

[Screwball]

Log your rounds fired. I keep track of all of mine on the Notepad app on my iPhone. Uploads it to the Cloud so I’ll never lose count even if I break my phone. Something to consider.

I use AmmoBase on my iPhone...

Keeps track of round counts (can also include failures), ammo prices, and how much/what ammo I have on hand. DropBox backed up.

When you shoot, can also write stuff about the shoot. Allowed me to document any issue that came up, like my Mossberg SRII that had the wrist crack within 9 months into owning it. Patterning details on shotguns. Testing of ammo for crimp jump on my 9mm converted S&W Airweight.

Used to keep a log in a notebook, but solvent did it in. Prefer the electronic and backed up version.

I am very interested in the locking block failure. Unreal that it kept going. Makes me feel comfortable with my PX4... even though I’m probably not getting that high with round counts.

[LangdonTactical]

I do know that the trigger spring tends to break on my Px4's somewhere in the 15,000 to 20,000 cycles range based on dry fire. This has happened consistently with all the springs I've used.

That is very interesting. I have yet to break a trigger spring in any of my PX4s. Do you have pictures of it when it broke? I would think that the double leg design would allow it to keep working when it was broken, but maybe not.

Also, how many of them have you broken at 15,000 to 20,000 cycles?

[arcfide]

That is very interesting. I have yet to break a trigger spring in any of my PX4s. Do you have pictures of it when it broke? I would think that the double leg design would allow it to keep working when it was broken, but maybe not.

Also, how many of them have you broken at 15,000 to 20,000 cycles?

I'm not putting my Px4's through nearly as heavy a dry firing regiment as I was, so I don't think I'll see another trigger spring failure for a while, but the next time I see it I'll try to take a photo of it. I'm afraid I don't currently have any photos of the last breakages.

I believe I've broken two or three. They lasted almost exactly one year from the time of replacement to the time that the next one broke. This happened both on the standard springs and the SD springs. I was a bit concerned that I was doing something wrong or that something was defective, but some reflection indicates that the most likely result is simply that I was wearing them out from dry fire. While I don't get a lot of live fire practice in, I estimated that during the time when I was seeing these breaks, I was doing between 15 - 75 double action dry fires per day with the pistols. I'd say most of the time it was more like 30 - 50 trigger pulls per day. This was a relatively regular habit of mine for a few years with the Px4, so it made sense that I got the trigger spring failures at almost the exact same time each year (I think within a few weeks of each other).

I haven't broken enough of them to clearly establish a very solid pattern, though a part of me wants to do lots of dry fire with the Px4 just to see if I can predict it down to a nice, precise interval.

The double leg feature of the spring does in fact keep the trigger lasting longer than it would otherwise. One of the legs would break, and the trigger return would feel weak and get a little creepy, maybe a bit squeaky, but still function. After a significantly less number of pulls, the other leg would also break, and the trigger would fail to reset. I think it was probably within another 200 or probably quite fewer pulls that both legs would break. I don't have the exact numbers I'm sorry to say. After this happened the first time, I was on the lookout for it the second time, and I caught the trigger breakage before the second leg failed completely.

If I recall correctly, the breaks were very similar to one another when they did break. I think the facture occurred in one of the coils of the spring, which resulted in one of the legs and part of the coiled spring essentially resting limply while the rest of the spring tried to work. If you shook the pistol you would hear the rattle of the broken off coil and leg.

I suspect that maybe one of the reasons that you may not have broken a spring yet is because your firing cycles look different than mine. Given the high rates of real rounds that you're putting down range, I would have to assume that you are shooting in single action significantly more than I am. For me, most of the cycles on my Px4 were dry fire with full trigger motion in double action, so that probably stressed the springs more than would lots of single action fire. It's also not clear to me what the effect of life fire vs. dry fire has on the springs. Given the high rates of dry fire that I was doing, and the low amounts of live fire, at best I was probably somewhere in the range of 75% double action and 25% single action.

[LangdonTactical]

I'm not putting my Px4's through nearly as heavy a dry firing regiment as I was, so I don't think I'll see another trigger spring failure for a while, but the next time I see it I'll try to take a photo of it. I'm afraid I don't currently have any photos of the last breakages.

I believe I've broken two or three. They lasted almost exactly one year from the time of replacement to the time that the next one broke. This happened both on the standard springs and the SD springs. I was a bit concerned that I was doing something wrong or that something was defective, but some reflection indicates that the most likely result is simply that I was wearing them out from dry fire. While I don't get a lot of live fire practice in, I estimated that during the time when I was seeing these breaks, I was doing between 15 - 75 double action dry fires per day with the pistols. I'd say most of the time it was more like 30 - 50 trigger pulls per day. This was a relatively regular habit of mine for a few years with the Px4, so it made sense that I got the trigger spring failures at almost the exact same time each year (I think within a few weeks of each other).

I haven't broken enough of them to clearly establish a very solid pattern, though a part of me wants to do lots of dry fire with the Px4 just to see if I can predict it down to a nice, precise interval.

The double leg feature of the spring does in fact keep the trigger lasting longer than it would otherwise. One of the legs would break, and the trigger return would feel weak and get a little creepy, maybe a bit squeaky, but still function. After a significantly less number of pulls, the other leg would also break, and the trigger would fail to reset. I think it was probably within another 200 or probably quite fewer pulls that both legs would break. I don't have the exact numbers I'm sorry to say. After this happened the first time, I was on the lookout for it the second time, and I caught the trigger breakage before the second leg failed completely.

If I recall correctly, the breaks were very similar to one another when they did break. I think the facture occurred in one of the coils of the spring, which resulted in one of the legs and part of the coiled spring essentially resting limply while the rest of the spring tried to work. If you shook the pistol you would hear the rattle of the broken off coil and leg.

I suspect that maybe one of the reasons that you may not have broken a spring yet is because your firing cycles look different than mine. Given the high rates of real rounds that you're putting down range, I would have to assume that you are shooting in single action significantly more than I am. For me, most of the cycles on my Px4 were dry fire with full trigger motion in double action, so that probably stressed the springs more than would lots of single action fire. It's also not clear to me what the effect of life fire vs. dry fire has on the springs. Given the high rates of dry fire that I was doing, and the low amounts of live fire, at best I was probably somewhere in the range of 75% double action and 25% single action.

Great information and I will keep an eye out. It is also good to know that the spring keeps working for a while after one leg breaks. That was exactly what I would thinking would happen and the reason I think it is a better design than most trigger return springs. I did replace mine at 20,000 rounds, but have not replaced it since.

I do shoot a ton of DA shots. I don't dry fire as much as I used to or as much as I should. But I always start every string of fire DA and many of my training exercises are DA only, decoking for each shot. But I likely do not shoot as much DA as you would in Dry Fire.

Again, thanks for the information.

[arcfide]

Great information and I will keep an eye out. It is also good to know that the spring keeps working for a while after one leg breaks. That was exactly what I would thinking would happen and the reason I think it is a better design than most trigger return springs. I did replace mine at 20,000 rounds, but have not replaced it since.

I do shoot a ton of DA shots. I don't dry fire as much as I used to or as much as I should. But I always start every string of fire DA and many of my training exercises are DA only, decoking for each shot. But I likely do not shoot as much DA as you would in Dry Fire.

Again, thanks for the information.

I feel that I should also provide a disclaimer here. While I believe that I was able to get more trigger pulls after the break, due to the double leg design of the trigger spring, I only feel like I'm pointing out the obvious in saying that actual experiences for others may be, and even, are likely to be, different. The design seems to allow for some additional functionality, based on my very limited experiences, but I could just as easily imagine the spring breaking in some way didn't get this benefit. I only say this to state the obvious, in case someone just assumes that relying on being able to run on a single leg of a spring will be good enough. My personal recommendation based on my experiences would be to replace the return spring after 20,000 rounds, as you did.

[LangdonTactical]

So today I shot another 525 rounds, 6 different types of ammo and that pushed me over 47k. I am now sitting at 47,035 rounds through the full-size gun. So almost exactly 3000 rounds to go, which should be about 6 trips to the range at this rate, maybe 5 if I push it a little longer in each session.

10 total stoppages now. Only one breakage, which did not shut the gun down, but did likely cause two of the stoppages. Two fail to feed early on that I believe were shooter induced. One slide stop early, shooter induced. One fail to feed, likely with the broken locking block. and 6 failures to eject, two with a .40 caliber extractor and one with a broken locking block.

So far I am really happy with the results and I don't see any reason we should not just sail through to 50K.

[Bigghoss]

I'm saving up to get a Compact Carry mod 5 but I'll definitely be keeping my eye out for the right deal on a 9mm fullsize in the meantime.

[beenalongtime]

I'm saving up to get a Compact Carry mod 5 but I'll definitely be keeping my eye out for the right deal on a 9mm fullsize in the meantime.

http://www.osagecountyguns.com/beretta-px4-full-9mm-night-sights-jxf9f21ns.html

Something like this?

[Willard]

http://www.osagecountyguns.com/beretta-px4-full-9mm-night-sights-jxf9f21ns.html

Something like this?

I thought I'd gotten on a good deal earlier this year, but this beats this by adding night sights and still cheaper. Would be on this if I hadn't just bought an M9.

[Bigghoss]

http://www.osagecountyguns.com/beretta-px4-full-9mm-night-sights-jxf9f21ns.html

Something like this?

Exactly like that but the timing could not be worse.

[LangdonTactical]

http://www.osagecountyguns.com/beretta-px4-full-9mm-night-sights-jxf9f21ns.html

Something like this?

Damn, that is a really good deal! A gun that easily lasts 50K for under $400, wow.

[Guerrero]

Damn, that is a really good deal! A gun that easily lasts 50K for under $400, wow.Is lasting 50k rounds abnormal, or just at that price-point?

[LangdonTactical]

Is lasting 50k rounds abnormal, or just at that price-point?

The combo of both. Very few guns will last 50K without some kind of major parts replacement. There is a lot of BS on the internet about how many rounds people have fired through their guns. Fuzzy math lends itself to "my _____ gun has 100,000 rounds through it and has never broken any part". Likely they have had the gun a few years and maybe shot 10,000 rounds a year. I know what it takes to shoot high round counts through guns, and most people simply just don't have the time to do it. Not to mention the finances for the ammo.

Yes, a Wilson Combat 1911 Super Grade is likely a 100,000 round gun. And for $6500 (maybe more?) and a three-year wait, you can have one too.

These PX4s are $379 with night sights and I know for a fact they will last 50k. Maybe quite a bit more, I don't know yet.

But for $379, they are well worth the money.

[DAB]

20,000 rounds at 20 cents a round is $4,000. at that point, buy a new pistol.

[WobblyPossum]

20,000 rounds at 20 cents a round is $4,000. at that point, buy a new pistol.

$400 gets you 2000 more rounds of 9mm. It’s nice not to have to buy a new pistol.


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[TheNewbie]

The combo of both. Very few guns will last 50K without some kind of major parts replacement. There is a lot of BS on the internet about how many rounds people have fired through their guns. Fuzzy math lends itself to "my _____ gun has 100,000 rounds through it and has never broken any part". Likely they have had the gun a few years and maybe shot 10,000 rounds a year. I know what it takes to shoot high round counts through guns, and most people simply just don't have the time to do it. Not to mention the finances for the ammo.

Yes, a Wilson Combat 1911 Super Grade is likely a 100,000 round gun. And for $6500 (maybe more?) and a three-year wait, you can have one too.

These PX4s are $379 with night sights and I know for a fact they will last 50k. Maybe quite a bit more, I don't know yet.

But for $379, they are well worth the money.

How is the durability of the PX4 compared to the current 92s?

[LangdonTactical]

How is the durability of the PX4 compared to the current 92s?

So I am pretty confident in saying that the PX4 is a more durable gun than the 92. By how much it is hard to say, but more durable for sure.

[beenalongtime]

So I am pretty confident in saying that the PX4 is a more durable gun than the 92. By how much it is hard to say, but more durable for sure.

Thanks for that tidbit of knowledge. I have been arguing with myself as to what would be generally more durable (baring something like bad ammo), a metal gun, or a polymer framed gun. Part of me thinks metal, and that polymer guns will eventually have UV issues, while part of me thinks plastics have improved so much, that I'd be more likely to have a metal frame develop rust, before the failure of a polymer framed gun.
Sounds like they are close enough together, that I should worry more about training rather then the gun.

At this price, it would give the compacts a run for their money.

[Willard]

Damn, that is a really good deal! A gun that easily lasts 50K for under $400, wow.

Yes indeed. Could not pass it up. Have never dealt with that company, but giving it a try at that cost.

[HenryJ]

Finally got the courage and tool to put night sights on my PX4 Compact

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/PX4nightsite.jpg

Went easier than I thought :)

[Willard]

Finally got the courage and tool to put night sights on my PX4 Compact

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/PX4nightsite.jpg

Went easier than I thought :)

What light are you running there? I have a X300U A on mine, but with recent Surefire hijinks, looking for a new option. Thanks.

[HenryJ]

What light are you running there? I have a X300U A on mine, but with recent Surefire hijinks, looking for a new option. Thanks.A very inexpensive light. I paid $25 for it a few years ago. No logo or name on it. ... I checked and this is it: SyndeRay Tactical 200 Lumen LED Flashlight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otnwUPcE_TM)
I modified the back of it to clear the triggerguard. Ground / filed the rear to round the top edge for clearance.
Quick easy install/remove. Simple on/off. I have it on there while serving nightstand duty. I really didn't expect it to work so well or last as long. Surprised me.
Same activation as the light frame on my Pico so the old dog doesn't have to learn new tricks :)

The one I purchased is no longer available. A little looking and this one is as close as I could find. SecurityIng Waterproof Cree LED Tactical Gun-Mounted Strobe Flashlight $22 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07559XH2Q/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?th=1)

[DAB]

Finally got the courage and tool to put night sights on my PX4 Compact

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/PX4nightsite.jpg

Went easier than I thought :)

needs a G lever conversion so it's always ready to go, even at night, in the dark.

[HenryJ]

needs a G lever conversion so it's always ready to go, even at night, in the dark. :) I thought about it but right back to the ... "old dog new tricks thing". Too many years with a 92 the thumb automatically flips that lever up. If it is UP already, I find that I have a hesitation wondering where it went ;)
I like that it is very easy to convert the PX4 to G. Not as easy to do on the 92.

[DAB]

grab gun, pull trigger, bang.

easy.

oh, and know your target, and what is beyond.

[TheNewbie]

:) I thought about it but right back to the ... "old dog new tricks thing". Too many years with a 92 the thumb automatically flips that lever up. If it is UP already, I find that I have a hesitation wondering where it went ;)
I like that it is very easy to convert the PX4 to G. Not as easy to do on the 92.

How easy/difficult do you find use the safety/decocker on the PX4c? When I tried one, it was not as natural or easy as the 92.

[azerious]

How easy/difficult do you find use the safety/decocker on the PX4c? When I tried one, it was not as natural or easy as the 92.

I might have missed it but how are these on digesting steel cased ammo?

[HCM]

How easy/difficult do you find use the safety/decocker on the PX4c? When I tried one, it was not as natural or easy as the 92.

The standard PX 4 levers suck. You can do 92 style levers or the slim levers with the PX4 G conversion.

[HenryJ]

How easy/difficult do you find use the safety/decocker on the PX4c? When I tried one, it was not as natural or easy as the 92.I find it about the same. Maybe even a bit more positive as the edge on the batwing and ease of operation seem slightly better on the PX4. Might just be me though. Big hands and fat fingers.


I might have missed it but how are these on digesting steel cased ammo?
Mine has worked well with everything I have thrown at it. ( Reloads, Tula, Whitebox, Gold dot, Hornady, Blazer, PMC )

[TheNewbie]

I find it about the same. Maybe even a bit more positive as the edge on the batwing and ease of operation seem slightly better on the PX4. Might just be me though. Big hands and fat fingers.


Mine has worked well with everything I have thrown at it. ( Reloads, Tula, Whitebox, Gold dot, Hornady, Blazer, PMC )


Ahhhh that's it. I have small hands. Maybe I should run for president.

[M2CattleCo]

I'm seeing a lot of PX4s in police holsters down here in Aguascalientes MX. They are replacing very well worn 92s.

[HCM]

I'm seeing a lot of PX4s in police holsters down here in Aguascalientes MX. They are replacing very well worn 92s.

Not surprising - I’ve seen Mexican cops rocking Beretta ARX rifles for the past few years.

[TheNewbie]

I'm seeing a lot of PX4s in police holsters down here in Aguascalientes MX. They are replacing very well worn 92s.

I will be in Quintana Roo in January and I am interested to see la policia alli. In Mexico City I saw tons of revolvers and cops doubled up on motorcycles.

[LangdonTactical]

I have ordered a batch of 11# CS hammer springs for the PX4 and the 92.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29235-New-11-Beretta-Hammer-Springs-Coming!

[Kyle Reese]

I might have missed it but how are these on digesting steel cased ammo?I've got one with probably 2,000 rounds of Brown Bear 115 grain FMJ thru it, without issue. Gun was absolutely filthy, but cleaned up fine.

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[Doc_Glock]

I might have missed it but how are these on digesting steel cased ammo?

Mine was ammo picky and clearly favored hotter ammo. General thought here was that behavior wasn’t typical. It was bad enough I sent it back to Beretta. They said it was fine and shipped it back. Don’t know.

I had a PX4 compact that would shoot any ammo without pickiness.

[LangdonTactical]

My wife and I started the New Year off with a "Bang" on the 1st. We shot almost 1,400 rounds through four guns. 850 rounds were through the PX4 Full-Size test gun. She helped me with about 250 of those and my hands were happy about that.

That puts the total round count at 48,570 to date. I figure it will take about three more range sessions to finish up the test.

Here are some interesting numbers for you guys;

132 trips to the range
18 different ranges
24 different types of ammo
12,237 of the rounds were fired in front of witnesses
368 average number of rounds fired per range session
4 least number of rounds fired in a range session (demoing transitions for a rifle class)
850 most rounds fired in a single session
12 total stoppages (including the two that happened with the broken locking block)
1 breakage
0 malfunctions

1430 rounds to go.

[KeithH]

Can the Compact Carry PX4 Langdon Edition be converted back to having a slide release on the right side? I am left handed. Whats the cheapest route to take?

[fly out]

Yes. Beretta has standard ambi levers, and Langdon Tactical has low-profile ambi levers.

[Colt191145lover]

Can the Compact Carry PX4 Langdon Edition be converted back to having a slide release on the right side? I am left handed. Whats the cheapest route to take?


KeithH, I have the standard right side lever of my PX4 compact just sitting in drawer, its yours if you need one.

[Francis]

KiethH, I have the standard right side lever of my PX4 compact just sitting in drawer, its yours if you need one.

This is one of the many things that makes P-F so great. The people here are outstanding.


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[KeithH]

Awww....thanks man. I might need it. I would like to finish this up this weekend. I keep bouncing around between this Beretta and a few HK models with LEM triggers. Your kind gesture is really appreciated.

[Colt191145lover]

Awww....thanks man. I might need it. I would like to finish this up this weekend. I keep bouncing around between this Beretta and a few HK models with LEM triggers. Your kind gesture is really appreciated.

No problem, its not going anywhere. Shoot me a PM if/when you need it!

[LockedBreech]

My wife and I started the New Year off with a "Bang" on the 1st. We shot almost 1,400 rounds through four guns. 850 rounds were through the PX4 Full-Size test gun. She helped me with about 250 of those and my hands were happy about that.

That puts the total round count at 48,570 to date. I figure it will take about three more range sessions to finish up the test.

Here are some interesting numbers for you guys;

132 trips to the range
18 different ranges
24 different types of ammo
12,237 of the rounds were fired in front of witnesses
368 average number of rounds fired per range session
4 least number of rounds fired in a range session (demoing transitions for a rifle class)
850 most rounds fired in a single session
12 total stoppages (including the two that happened with the broken locking block)
1 breakage
0 malfunctions

1430 rounds to go.

Astonishing thing there is at an average of 368 rounds per range session, each individual session likely surpassed the amount of use most civilian buyers would shoot in a few years, and just a handful surpassed the amount of use most LE/mil users would shoot in the typical service lifetime of the pistol.

Very impressed by the gun, especially with the knowledge that the gun kept running after that 1 breakage.


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[beenalongtime]

Can the Compact Carry PX4 Langdon Edition be converted back to having a slide release on the right side? I am left handed. Whats the cheapest route to take?

I expect getting that plug out may be a bit tricky. The right side lever, does require the left side (can't swap the plug, left side has the spring). I have read about people gluing it in, as they have issues turning it, so one recommendation I read that may work the other way, was to use something rubbery, for grip. (if I remember correctly, they used something like a piece of grip tape)
The low profile lever that comes on the gun with the plug, will NOT work with a regular right side lever, without the expense of a machine shop. (normal levers are tongue and groove, low profile single lever is flush cut solid rod) Modified ambi low profiles look like the ones EL sells:
https://www.langdontactical.com/store/p25/Ambi-Slide_Stop_.html
I made my own set of those before EL started selling them and sent them off to be colored black, for one gun and have EL's coming for the Inox version I am turning into my own compact carry.

This thread shows adding a right side lever to a full size gun, pay attention to the extension hole as that is what I think might be tricky with the plug. (and tricky to remove the regular levers if you don't know it exists)
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=98581

[KeithH]

Thank you beenalongtime! I thought it might be harder than it looks.

[LangdonTactical]

Can the Compact Carry PX4 Langdon Edition be converted back to having a slide release on the right side? I am left handed. Whats the cheapest route to take?

Yes, it can be converted to an Ambi slide stop. You can buy the parts from brownells or I sell a low profile (stealth lever size) Ambi version on my website.

https://www.langdontactical.com/store/p25/Ambi-Slide_Stop_.html

I am currently sold out but I am building more next week.

[LangdonTactical]

I expect getting that plug out may be a bit tricky.
be tricky with the plug. (and tricky to remove the regular levers if you don't know it exists)
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showthread.php?t=98581

There is a hole in the plug that is there to allow you to turn the plug from the inside. Just stick a punch in it and turn it until the notch lines up with the slot next to the hole in the frame. It is not hard at all once you understand how it works.

[KeithH]

Yes, it can be converted to an Ambi slide stop. You can buy the parts from brownells or I sell a low profile (stealth lever size) Ambi version on my website.

https://www.langdontactical.com/store/p25/Ambi-Slide_Stop_.html

I am currently sold out but I am building more next week.

Drat! I just walked in the door with a HK P30 SK V1. Your version of the Compact Carry Storm had the best double action trigger I have ever experienced. Excellent in every way. And those sights! I loved them! The gun is an absolute bargain. Being a lefty I got hung up on the slide release issue so I left with the HK. I think I will just have to buy both and keep the winner. That trigger really, really got to me.

[LangdonTactical]

Hey guys, I am going live on the Langdon Tactical Facebook page at 12:30 MST. Going to hit 50K today!

Tune in to watch it happen!

[CLaw]

This was amazing. Thank you so much!

[TCFD273]

Hey guys, I am going live on the Langdon Tactical Facebook page at 12:30 MST. Going to hit 50K today!

Tune in to watch it happen!

I’ve been carrying a 92 for awhile, just ordered a Cen Tac, and got my 92a1 back Friday from you post trigger job....amazing btw.

Now I have to get a PX4....your costing me money sir!

Haha


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[CLaw]

I hear you. I have decided that I want to try a TDA, and I had been leaning towards a 92. Now, I am not sure if I will try a 92 or px4 compact first.


I’ve been carrying a 92 for awhile, just ordered a Cen Tac, and got my 92a1 back Friday from you post trigger job....amazing btw.

Now I have to get a PX4....your costing me money sir!

Haha


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[LOKNLOD]

Congrats on the 50K mark; caught the video just now.

I like the idea of a special edition fullsize, but are any CAP-style Ameriglos commercially available for the fullsize now or were they still prototypes?

[Balisong]

Hey guys, I am going live on the Langdon Tactical Facebook page at 12:30 MST. Going to hit 50K today!

Tune in to watch it happen!

I'm sorry that I missed it. Will you be posting the video on facebook for replaying? I know it's not live anymore but still be cool to see

[Clobbersaurus]

I'm sorry that I missed it. Will you be posting the video on facebook for replaying? I know it's not live anymore but still be cool to see

It’s there, just watched it. Good stuff!

[Balisong]

It’s there, just watched it. Good stuff!

Thanks for the heads up. But I guess you have to use a Facebook account. I don't and when I go to the page it only shows 3 old videos. When I click "see all" it tells me I have to log in to Facebook. I checked his youtube channel and didn't see it there. Ah well. Congrats on the 50K EL!

[Ob1sbo]

What light are you running there? I have a X300U A on mine, but with recent Surefire hijinks, looking for a new option. Thanks.

What hijinks are you referring to?

[TCinVA]

Thanks for the heads up. But I guess you have to use a Facebook account. I don't and when I go to the page it only shows 3 old videos. When I click "see all" it tells me I have to log in to Facebook. I checked his youtube channel and didn't see it there. Ah well. Congrats on the 50K EL!

It went up originally on EL's personal FB page. It's since been added to the Langdon Tactical FB page, which should be public and the video should be viewable there even with no FB account.

[Cory]

Tom has a special BB code to embed Facebook videos. Just need the numbers on the end of the url, and you wrap them in

Balisong

2271391136220440/

[Balisong]

It went up originally on EL's personal FB page. It's since been added to the Langdon Tactical FB page, which should be public and the video should be viewable there even with no FB account.

Thanks for the help, but still not on the public version of langdon tactical FB. That's ok, I'm sure eventually it'll find its way onto youtube

[Cory]

Thanks for the help, but still not on the public version of langdon tactical FB. That's ok, I'm sure eventually it'll find its way onto youtube

If you click what looks like a picture in my above post, it will play the video for you.

-Cory

[LangdonTactical]

Thanks for the help, but still not on the public version of langdon tactical FB. That's ok, I'm sure eventually it'll find its way onto youtube

It is a public video and available to view by everyone. I don't know what the issue could be.

[beenalongtime]

I started watching it, and unfortunately, Windows decided it was time to update/reboot. When I went back, it didn't immediately reload, and was some sort of timing issue. Hitting F5, reloaded the page, not from cache and I was able to view it and forward it to where I was prior.
I have no social media accounts, and would speculate, it is probably some thing that FB does to non signed in people, to try to get them to sign in, or set up and account.
A possible way to test that is try browsing anonymously as well as your normal browsers (some cookies transfer, others don't).

[Balisong]

If you click what looks like a picture in my above post, it will play the video for you.

-Cory

Thanks guys. I'm interwebz speshul, finally got it. Congrats again EL! You've definitely sold me on the quality of these guns, and I love the way they feel in the hand. I'll definitely try one at some point.

[LangdonTactical]

Not sure if any of you have seen this. But Beretta did create a landing page about this test.

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4hardtokill/

Also, there is going to be a live discussion about the test at the SHOT Show. Next Wednesday the 24th at Noon PST is when we go live. The gun will be on display at the Beretta Booth I am told. Come by and see it if you are at the show. Link to the live event is below.

http://beretta-usa.yourbrandlive.com/c/shot-show-live-50-000-rounds-px4-test?utm_campaign=B2C%20Campaign&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=60071239&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8LVYWXpO4ZmIHCJTUDj-kY62pSGsEVHjmpSRug7i4GowjQGnCCzIvmMbTJ2EaYuYjk-xDjcuy4D3m1dnVLH2LleSYOAg&_hsmi=60072096

I am working on the final report for the test and hope to get it posted soon with some final photos.

[LangdonTactical]

There is another good article up online about the Compact Carry.

https://view.joomag.com/american-patriots-unsung-magazine-issue-3-sept-2017/0800969001506313846?short

Also, American Patriots is offering a free subscription to their online magazine right now.

[Nephrology]

Not sure if any of you have seen this. But Beretta did create a landing page about this test.

http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4hardtokill/


You might want to, ah... suggest some native English copyediting on the text of that webpage ;)

[LangdonTactical]

In just under a year I managed to shoot exactly 50,000 rounds through the PX4 Full-Size. It turned out to be a much more difficult task than I expected and in all honesty, I would not want to do it again.

First, let's talk about the gun. In short, it was great. I am now a huge fan of the gun and I have a really hard time understanding why it is not way more popular. I guess I am in part to blame as I, like many others, never really gave the gun a chance. I made up my mind about it years ago and never gave it a second thought. Now that I have, color me impressed.

So for a year, it was pretty much the only handgun I shot. A few rounds here and there with my carry gun, an M9, and a few students guns. Other than that it was all PX4, all the time. It gobbled up everything I feed it from 65-grain polymer to 158 grain FMJ. Here are some numbers for those that have not been tracking this test;

50,000 rounds fired in just under a year
141 trips to the range
22 different types of ammo
19 different ranges across the country
32,254 rounds fired with a TRL-1 HL attached to the gun
2,154 Duty Hollow Points (9 different types from 90 grains to 147)
12,769 rounds fired in in front of people. Live demos, matches, range days, etc.


In that time frame here are all the issues;

3/14/17 I had two failures to go into battery on a slide lock reload. The second one I noticed my thumb pushing on the slide.
4/1/17 I had a slide stop early. I believe that I bumped the slide stop as it never happened again.
7/28/17 I had a failure to eject (federal 147 AE)
7/29/17 I had two failures to eject (federal 147 AE)
8/4/17 I had two failures to eject (federal 147 AE)
11/16/17 I had a failure to eject (federal 147 AE)
12/7/17 I had one failure to eject and one failure to feed (IMI 124 FMJ)
12/8/17 I discovered I had a broken locking or Cam Block when lubricating the gun
1/6/17 I had one failure to eject

So in total, that is 12 stoppages and 1 broken part. No real malfunctions as even though I had a broken part, it never stopped the gun from working.

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Pretty impressive to me that the gun kept working even with this part broken. I do believe it caused those stoppages the day before, but I could clear them and keep shooting.

All in all the gun looks really good after a year of really hard use and 50,000 rounds.

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If you have been following along, you know that I did replace some parts. Outside of the new cam block that went into the gun at about 45,000 rounds, I did do some preventive maintenance;

4/18/17 9,966 rounds, New Recoil Spring
7/10/17 20,067 rounds, New Recoil Spring, firing pin, firing pin striker, firing pin spring, extractor springs, firing pin block, extractor, trigger return spring.
8/1/17 24,311 rounds, Original extractor, and springs put back into the gun
8/22/17 30,190 rounds, New Recoil Spring
12/12/17 44,710, New Cam Block

All in all that is a pretty small amount of maintenance for the number of rounds fired. For most people that 50,000 rounds would be a lifetime of ammo. If you put it into the perspective of law enforcement, my Sherriff's Department in Virgina shoots twice a year. About 250 rounds on each range day. That's 500 rounds a year per man, and from what I have seen that's well above normal for the country. Do the math on that, this gun would last that officer 100 years. Also, that would be one stoppage every 8.3 years, think about that for a minute. The gun was also nearly flawless for the first 20,000 rounds, which is more than a lifetime of ammo for most.

I also think it is important to note that I shot this gun way harder than would be normal by anyone's measure. My range sessions changed around July from quality practice to a hard focus on quantity. I needed to get the numbers up and that meant shooting much more per session. Normally a good range session for me is 250 to 350 rounds. That changed this year and went to 550 to 750. It did not make me a better shooter! In fact, I would say it hurt my shooting. Not only did I wake up with my hands and elbows hurting, my trigger control suffered, my accuracy suffered and my ability to wait on the sights suffered big time. I have some work to do to get back to where I was at around 10,000 or 15,000 through this gun. That is when I set a lot of my personal best on drills. Very little improvement has happend since then.

I have gone back and looked and realize that I won National Championships on a 20,000 round shooting budget. I have also talked to my friend Rob Leatham about this several times. He agrees that 50K is just too much.

So for those of you that think "wow if I could shoot that much I would be so good", think again. Quality wins over quantity every time. Don't get me wrong, most would benefit from shooting more as long as the practice is focused and quality time. But I would argue that daily dry fire and a good 15,000 to 20,000 rounds a year will get you really far in the pistol shooting world.

I hope you guys enjoyed and make sure you join us next week for the live discussion at the SHOT Show. I will be there to answer your questions live.

[LockedBreech]

EL, what a grueling commitment on your end but a truly notable contribution to the shooting literature and a great tribute to an under-recognized gun that gives it a great deal of "street credit" it may not have had before. I sincerely thank you as someone who has owned and loved a PX4 since 2008, for giving the platform a tremendous day in the sun.

Now go shoot something else for a while...

[DAB]

interesting commentary on the number of rounds shot per week. I have read other accounts of other championship shooters and their annual round counts for practice, and several were pegged at about 1000/week (50k/year). maybe they want to reconsider that if they are still doing that much shooting weekly.

i just changed from my full size Px4 to my Centurion Tactical for daily carry. personal preference, nothing against the Px4.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Langdon Tactical,

I much appreciate your time and effort in testing and bringing attention to the PX4 Storm. You paid a dear price in pains and also in turning your joy and fun into work for us. Thanks! I also appreciate those unreported times that you were so tired and fatigued that you wanted to throw that pistol down range and did not.

I like the detailed records and pictures. I also like your honesty of reporting the human element and not being just an infomercial.

Again, much appreciated!

[fixer]

Ernest thanks so much for your contributions to the site and for this testing. It is a substantial contribution to this community. Much applause to your efforts here.

[Duelist]

Man. Now I want to buy another gun.

[Bigghoss]

Man. Now I want to buy another gun.

Buy two.

[Duelist]

Buy two.

I'm weak, but I'm not that weak.

Oh, wait. I just did that, didn't I!

[Bigghoss]

I'm weak, but I'm not that weak.

Oh, wait. I just did that, didn't I!

Buy two more.

[Swamp Buddy]

EL Is that the factory finish on the slide, it has not worn that bad.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Another advanced trait about the Beretta PX4 Storm is the firing pin hole.

When the up-coming round comes out of the magazine the headstamp scrapes along the breech face. On most pistols you can get primer shredding or brass that get shaved off by the firing pin hole.
Beretta bevels the firing pin hole to alleviate that risk.

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[Guerrero]

Where has this guy been?

;)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Another advanced trait about the Beretta PX4 Storm is a slide "catcher" safety.

If the improbable, but not impossible occurs that the the slide flange breaks or the slide does, this combination will keep it from flying into your face:

This slot in the slide...

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Rides on the hammer pivot pin's extended head...

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which will catch your slide before it flies off.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Where has this guy been?

;)

Who?

[DpdG]

I think he’s referring to you and your significant attention to technical detail (in a good way).

Tangentaly, from where do you hail? I ask as some of your written English is very technically accurate, but not necessarily in common American or UK vernacular. Your choice of .45 makes me question my initial judgement though. Either way, it’s always nice to have new contributors with both technical knowledge to share and polite delivery of said knowledge.

[Guerrero]

I think he’s referring to you and your significant attention to technical detail (in a good way)..

Indeed.

:)

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I think he’s referring to you and your significant attention to technical detail (in a good way).

Tangentaly, from where do you hail? I ask as some of your written English is very technically accurate, but not necessarily in common American or UK vernacular. Your choice of .45 makes me question my initial judgement though. Either way, it’s always nice to have new contributors with both technical knowledge to share and polite delivery of said knowledge.

Thanks!
My English is focused and not indicative of regional origin on purpose. The military moved me around and I decided to not let my English change. Attention to detail makes me precise in diction, as well. In English or Spanish I am accused of it. I try to be precise without being loquacious or pejorative. (more $1.50 words!)

As to choosing .45... sophisticated taste :)

[KeithH]

When will we be able to buy that Amariglo sight on the front of that Compact Carry Langdon Edition? It is outstanding! Don't see it on their website.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Another advanced trait of the underestimated PX4 is the curvature of the extractor claw. It gives better grip to the circumference and more contact area for better performance and longevity.

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[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Indeed.

:)

Thanks for the welcome!

[Bigghoss]

Another advanced trait about the Beretta PX4 Storm is a slide "catcher" safety.

If the improbable, but not impossible occurs that the the slide flange breaks or the slide does, this combination will keep it from flying into your face:

This slot in the slide...

23134

Rides on the hammer pivot pin's extended head...

23135

which will catch your slide before it flies off.

I hadn't noticed this before. It's a carryover from the 90-series pistols. I have a nice 92f that predates it.

BTW, welcome to the forum. You've already contributed more to the forum than I have. Not that I've contributed much...

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I hadn't noticed this before. It's a carryover from the 90-series pistols. I have a nice 92f that predates it.

BTW, welcome to the forum. You've already contributed more to the forum than I have. Not that I've contributed much...

Thanks for the welcome!
Yes, you're right. This adaptation changed the Model 92F to an FS (S for safe). Here the PX4 takes it further. The M-92 has a circular, enlarged hammer pin, where the PX4 has a semi-triangular, fixed pin head that is embedded in the frame in its own slot. Even more solid.

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[beenalongtime]

Now I wish we also had a Cougar to compare. (metal predecessor to the PX4)

[LockedBreech]

Now I wish we also had a Cougar to compare. (metal predecessor to the PX4)

I have a ~1994 Beretta Cougar 8040G and a 2009 Stoeger (under Beretta ownership) 8000F. Which would you like me to pull?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[beenalongtime]

Either to compare to the image above. Was it like the 92, or more like the PX4, or some evolution between?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Another advanced feature of the PX4 Storm is a "dent" on each side of the frame.

This is to assist in removing a stuck magazine. You get a better grip on it.

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[DAB]

Another advanced trait of the underestimated PX4 is the curvature of the extractor claw. It gives better grip to the circumference and more contact area for better performance and longevity.

23137

since you brought up the extractor, those for the Px4 and the 92 series also share two useful features: they are also a loaded chamber indicator (should see a little red mark, that also is tactile to the touch), and because they are external extractors, you can drop a round in the chamber and release the slide without worrying about damaging the extractor (unlike a 1911, where this practice is frowned upon because of its internal extractor which is it's own spring too).

[LangdonTactical]

EL Is that the factory finish on the slide, it has not worn that bad.

Yes, that is the factory finish.

[LangdonTactical]

interesting commentary on the number of rounds shot per week. I have read other accounts of other championship shooters and their annual round counts for practice, and several were pegged at about 1000/week (50k/year). maybe they want to reconsider that if they are still doing that much shooting weekly.

i just changed from my full size Px4 to my Centurion Tactical for daily carry. personal preference, nothing against the Px4.

That is likely true that they are shooting 1000 rounds a week, but not likely all year, and not every week during the season. Travel time to matches, the matches themselves, the offseason, vacations, and life in general normally get in the way will shooting 1000 rounds a week for 52 weeks.

I am sure some weeks they shoot more than 1,000 rounds, other weeks they may not get to the range at all. There is also likely a build up or work up at the beginning of the season that they are shooting more than normal as well. But I am better a 20k to 25k ammo budget would work pretty well for most of them. If they have a range in their backyard, all bets are off. If you can simply walk out back and shoot 100 to 200 rounds every day, that would be a totally different story.

[LangdonTactical]

Thanks for the welcome!
Yes, you're right. This adaptation changed the Model 92F to an FS (S for safe). Here the PX4 takes it further. The M-92 has a circular, enlarged hammer pin, where the PX4 has a semi-triangular, fixed pin head that is embedded in the frame in its own slot. Even more solid.

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Good info sir!

The PX4 pin also keeps the hammer pin from rotating. Often the 92 hammer pin will start rotating in the frame rather than the hammer rotating on the hammer pin, which is what you want for many reasons.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

since you brought up the extractor, those for the Px4 and the 92 series also share two useful features: they are also a loaded chamber indicator (should see a little red mark, that also is tactile to the touch), and because they are external extractors, you can drop a round in the chamber and release the slide without worrying about damaging the extractor (unlike a 1911, where this practice is frowned upon because of its internal extractor which is it's own spring too).

An excellent point!
Many Storms don't have that red mark, though some do... but the tactile witness is something I use often. I will rub my finger nail down the extractor to feel its protrusion.

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I would not recommend a drop in loading on a regular basis, though. It can cause deformation in the extractor claw's lower edge. However, keep in mind that I am looking to use my Storm for 100,000 rounds and have it still look good :)

[That Guy]

I would not recommend a drop in loading on a regular basis, though. It can cause deformation in the extractor claw's lower edge.

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. :) But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

[AdioSS]

In the Cougars, the hammer pin is round with flats on each side that fit into the frame that keeps the pin from rotating. And 2 out of my 3 Cougars’ hammer pins have a hole down the middle.

I have several 92’s, a trio of Cougars (Mini .40, fullsize .40 with a 9mm barrel, fullsize 9mm Stoeger), & a PX4 .40 Type C.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. :) But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

That Guy,

This Guy has not used a drop in load more that a few times in training and once with a snap cap because of being overcome by a sudden gust of lazy. I also do not recommend keeping a chamber round in mag in your shirt pocket. It will get lint or fall out while you are picking up brass. :)

I have not done the drop in loading for a few reasons. My “info” on why this practice is potentially risky to the extractor comes from a few sources.
Firstly, in Gunsmithing school I learned about it. (though I’m old and things could have changed). Secondly, Beretta techs told me it was inadvisable on a regular basis, for the reasons I originally stated. Thirdly, I regularly talk to the local gunsmiths about lots of stuff, this included. They all agreed that the regular practice of drop in loading is risking damage. Fourthly, I spent years with Rugers also (still have an LC9) and Ruger techs said the same thing. (All references were to external extractors)


I will also clarify this, my “context” of being not in favor of frequent drop ins is duration. I have a few Storms and some are going to high round counts and years of use. So, what one can get away with for a year or so and not mix it with many thousands of rounds, may be different.

What I learned from my sources is that the extractor is designed to let the incoming round come up behind it. Jumping the rim can cause burrs on the edge of the extractor. In time the burr can interfere with the lower edge that first induces the round. This can cause a stoppage without warning. It might seem that brass won’t hurt hardened steel, but a high quality, high carbon knife edge is polished by a leather strop.

I teach and practice the drop in load as an emergency measure, if your magazine is damaged or something. To do it regularly.... ?

Jeff Cooper was a limit pusher and pioneer. The Guru doing it in demonstration does not imply advising to do it regularly. That’s my view, anyway.

To be sure(er) I put in a call to my old Gunsmithing school to run it by the instructors. If they say otherwise, I will update you.

As to the manual... I can’t say. I have tried talking to Beretta techs (including the Parts Manager, and Head Gunsmith) and they often have no idea what they were thinking in Italy R&D. Again, does the manual say you “can” or you “should” on a regular, consistent basis?


Interesting. I look forward to more discussion.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. :) But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

I have found that getting magazines directly from Beretta USA is the cheapest and quickest way (they also have an excellent, fast return policy).

As to topping off, an UpLula makes it easy.

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[PX4 Storm Tracker]

In the Cougars, the hammer pin is round with flats on each side that fit into the frame that keeps the pin from rotating. And 2 out of my 3 Cougars’ hammer pins have a hole down the middle.

I have several 92’s, a trio of Cougars (Mini .40, fullsize .40 with a 9mm barrel, fullsize 9mm Stoeger), & a PX4 .40 Type C.

How many rounds do you have through the PX4 .40 Type C?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Is this something you have personally noticed from loading directly into the chamber?

All I know about the subject is that the manual claims I can load a round directly to the chamber. Which, given the expense of PX4 magazines locally, how hard they can be to top off, and just because, seems kind of neat. No need for a separate Barney mag, yay. :) But not neat enough to mess up the extractor, if the manual is wrong.

(Since 1911's were mentioned, an off-topic observation: in some video where Jeff Cooper was demonstrating dry fire, he reloaded his 1911 by dropping a round directly into the chamber. Of course, he probably had a spare extractor somewhere adjusted for that specific pistol, and of course a whole bunch of spare pistols too... But it was interesting to see how The Guru handled his firearm.)

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

I found that reference in the manual. It says, "The firing chamber may be loaded in one of three ways:" It then lists a description of a drop in among the three.

May be loaded in this fashion, does not seem to me as a recommendation to do so regularly, but it seems to imply that you "may". I can see how it does look like the manual is giving an OK to do it whenever you want.

I just called the Beretta Parts Manager who strongly recommends not drop in loading on a regular basis. He said the wording in the manual can be misleading, translated from Italian, but it implies that you "may" do it this way if necessary, not recommended to do regularly, though.

[That Guy]

The manual that came with my PX4 is slightly different. It mentions two ways to load the chamber (from the magazine and direct loading), and makes no mention of one being preferable to the other.

Thank you for your information. Especially the bits that come straight from Beretta, as I'm not aware of any other gun company that claims direct loading to be okay with their firearms.

(I'm still a bit curious about what constitutes "regular basis. :) But it does sound like I need to load my Beretta the same way as any other gun. Aww... :p )

(As for your tip on magazines, unfortunately Beretta USA only ships within USA.)

[DAB]

about twice a month, when i go to an IDPA match, i have to unload my carry pistol. either a Px4 or 92G. so i unload it, stash the ammo and loaded mags out of the way, and go about my day at the match. when the match is over, i reload my carry pistol and put it back in its holster on my belt.

so i have a fully loaded magazine, and one loose round. it is easier to drop the loaded round into the chamber, close the slide, decock the hammer, and stuff the loaded magazine into the pistol. done. in the holster you go.

putting the magazine in, releasing the slide to strip off the top round, decocking the hammer, dropping the magazine back out, topping off the magazine, and putting the magazine back in is extra steps.

if Beretta had said "only in an emergency should you release the slide on a loaded chamber", then i'd likely change my ways.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

about twice a month, when i go to an IDPA match, i have to unload my carry pistol. either a Px4 or 92G. so i unload it, stash the ammo and loaded mags out of the way, and go about my day at the match. when the match is over, i reload my carry pistol and put it back in its holster on my belt.

so i have a fully loaded magazine, and one loose round. it is easier to drop the loaded round into the chamber, close the slide, decock the hammer, and stuff the loaded magazine into the pistol. done. in the holster you go.

putting the magazine in, releasing the slide to strip off the top round, decocking the hammer, dropping the magazine back out, topping off the magazine, and putting the magazine back in is extra steps.

if Beretta had said "only in an emergency should you release the slide on a loaded chamber", then i'd likely change my ways.

It is hard to get a committed answer from Beretta above what I got from them. I have to do similarly when arriving and leaving the range twice per week. I also add what I call a Range Cleaning first. Die-lube, carbons, run away lubricant and (though not frequent in .45) unburnt powder could be there after 300+ rounds of .45.

I use a wooden skewer and a barely damp paper towel and clean the breech-face, loading ramp, mag well and hammer face. I also put the slide forward and push a barely damp paper towel up with a skewer to clean the center rail that will ride on top of my inserted magazine.

I guess it would be a matter of choice. If I won't have time to Range Clean my range pistol I bring my PX4 full size .40 along for "carrying".

When I get home and cleaned up I recover it and go to my EDC.

I still think we are dealing with the difference between what a pistol can take and what it can take long duration.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

about twice a month, when i go to an IDPA match, i have to unload my carry pistol. either a Px4 or 92G. so i unload it, stash the ammo and loaded mags out of the way, and go about my day at the match. when the match is over, i reload my carry pistol and put it back in its holster on my belt.

so i have a fully loaded magazine, and one loose round. it is easier to drop the loaded round into the chamber, close the slide, decock the hammer, and stuff the loaded magazine into the pistol. done. in the holster you go.

putting the magazine in, releasing the slide to strip off the top round, decocking the hammer, dropping the magazine back out, topping off the magazine, and putting the magazine back in is extra steps.

if Beretta had said "only in an emergency should you release the slide on a loaded chamber", then i'd likely change my ways.

Perhaps a few steps could be saved by using my "loading mag" idea in my prior post.

I use an empty magazine. You could unload your pistol, put the chamber round in an empty magazine, stash your stuff away. When ready to leave, put the chamber round in from the otherwise empty mag, then switch to the carry mag. No muss, no fuss.

[beenalongtime]

I found that reference in the manual. It says, "The firing chamber may be loaded in one of three ways:" It then lists a description of a drop in among the three.

May be loaded in this fashion, does not seem to me as a recommendation to do so regularly, but it seems to imply that you "may". I can see how it does look like the manual is giving an OK to do it whenever you want.

I just called the Beretta Parts Manager who strongly recommends not drop in loading on a regular basis. He said the wording in the manual can be misleading, translated from Italian, but it implies that you "may" do it this way if necessary, not recommended to do regularly, though.


Wondering about the drop in and what part gives the extractor issues? I have a 9mm one that I use for dry firing, with a laser that has no extractor lip. This allows me to at least practice trigger control as I work a bunch of hours.

[CoGT3]

“Something wicked this way comes”

https://instagram.com/p/BeRpXQbFOkE/

Full size PX4 with sniper grey slide Sounds like the full size “CC” is happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[LangdonTactical]

“Something wicked this way comes”

https://instagram.com/p/BeRpXQbFOkE/

Full-size PX4 with sniper grey slide Sounds like the full size “CC” is happening.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

So yes, the cat is out of the bag. We are launching this gun at the SHOT Show.

23227

The PX4 Carry.
After quite a bit of discussion and compromise, the decision has been made to move forward. Langdon Tactical will build these guns and ship directly to customers and dealers. Guns will come to us as stock PX4s and we will basically turn them into full-size versions of the Compact Carry to include;

Sniper Gray Cerakote slide
AmeriGlo Sights
Stealth Levers
Extended Mag Button
Competition Hammer Group
12 Lb Chrome Silicon Hammer Spring
Talon Grips
2 17 round mags and one 20 round mag

Exact same pricing as the Compact Carry so the gun will have a MAP of $795.

This gun will be a Langdon Tactical exclusive.

Langdon Tactical should be offering them for presale very soon on the website with first deliveries in about 6 weeks.

[Guerrero]

So yes, the cat is out of the bag. We are launching this gun at the SHOT Show.

23227

The PX4 Carry.

Nice. Will Robar do "upgrades" like with the Compact Carry?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Wondering about the drop in and what part gives the extractor issues? I have a 9mm one that I use for dry firing, with a laser that has no extractor lip. This allows me to at least practice trigger control as I work a bunch of hours.

It is the extractor claw needing to jump over the cartridge rim that makes the risk of damage.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

So yes, the cat is out of the bag. We are launching this gun at the SHOT Show.

23227

The PX4 Carry.
After quite a bit of discussion and compromise, the decision has been made to move forward. Langdon Tactical will build these guns and ship directly to customers and dealers. Guns will come to us as stock PX4s and we will basically turn them into full-size versions of the Compact Carry to include;

Sniper Gray Cerakote slide
AmeriGlo Sights
Stealth Levers
Extended Mag Button
Competition Hammer Group
12 Lb Chrome Silicon Hammer Spring
Talon Grips
2 17 round mags and one 20 round mag

Exact same pricing as the Compact Carry so the gun will have a MAP of $795.

This gun will be a Langdon Tactical exclusive.

Langdon Tactical should be offering them for presale very soon on the website with first deliveries in about 6 weeks.

Will it have a model 92 style hammer, like the CC or like a regular Storm?

[LOKNLOD]

Please tell me the Ameriglos for the full-size will be available to put on the full-size I already have!

Gun looks great, Ernest. Very nice.

[BJV]

Please tell me the Ameriglos for the full-size will be available to put on the full-size I already have!


https://www.langdontactical.com/store/p35/Ameriglo_Sight_Set_-_PX4_Full_Size_.html

[LOKNLOD]

https://www.langdontactical.com/store/p35/Ameriglo_Sight_Set_-_PX4_Full_Size_.html

How have I missed this?!

[BJV]

How have I missed this?!

Squirrel!

[taroman]

Is Langdon Tactical or Beretta stippling the frame?
Or is it a wrap?

[HCM]

Is Langdon Tactical or Beretta stippling the frame?
Or is it a wrap?

Those are the talon rubber stick on / wrap same as the compact carry.

[taroman]

Thanks, was wondering.
Talon shows one side and Beretta the other.
I know Earnest Langdon dislikes stippling, the work, that is.

[SoCalDep]

After playing with the PX4s again today I’m really bummed they’re not authorized by my department... Hopefully one of these days that can happen because I’m simply in love with the feel and trigger. The full-size “Carry” at SHOT is really nice, but the Compact Carry is where it’s at for me. The trigger is smooooth!

[AdioSS]

How many rounds do you have through the PX4 .40 Type C?

I bought it used last year & have not shot it very much.

[rjohnson4405]

LangdonTactical - Any chance you'd be chopping these to fit compact carry magazines as an option? I like the longer sight radius but more concealable (yet still full) grip.

[beenalongtime]

LangdonTactical - Any chance you'd be chopping these to fit compact carry magazines as an option? I like the longer sight radius but more concealable (yet still full) grip.


There isn't a way to really do something like that and have it look like a gun. That would void the warranty, require who knows how much epoxy to put the bottom back on, so the spring cap, stops, pins, etc. all lined up. (I doubt it would require cutting of the trigger group, but that might depend on those pins again)

[Bigghoss]

There isn't a way to really do something like that and have it look like a gun. That would void the warranty, require who knows how much epoxy to put the bottom back on, so the spring cap, stops, pins, etc. all lined up. (I doubt it would require cutting of the trigger group, but that might depend on those pins again)

I'm no expert so maybe I'm way off but since the compact and fullsize use the same trigger group, can't you just cut the grip, use a compact spring seat and then just drill a new hole for the retaining pin? Of course now there's the interchangeable backstraps to deal with. I think you'd just have to pick one and stick it on permanently. Or maybe I'm mistaken and talking out my ass. I'm not that familiar with the innards and what not.

[LangdonTactical]

Will it have a model 92 style hammer, like the CC or like a regular Storm?

It will have the 92 Style Hammer like the Compact Carry. It will have the Competition Trigger Group.

[LangdonTactical]

Is Langdon Tactical or Beretta stippling the frame?
Or is it a wrap?

It comes with the Talon Grips in the box.

[LangdonTactical]

LangdonTactical - Any chance you'd be chopping these to fit compact carry magazines as an option? I like the longer sight radius but more concealable (yet still full) grip.

We have not looked at that. I don't even know if it can be done.

[LangdonTactical]

We have nailed down all the important details with Beretta and are ready to take pre-orders.

https://www.langdontactical.com/store/p39/PX4_Carry_-_Full_Size_9mm.html

We should be able to ship these in about 6 weeks or so.

Please note that all these guns are coming from Langdon Tactical. Dealer inquiries should come directly to sales@langdontactical.com

Thank you all for your support.

[Dagga Boy]

Well that got expensive first thing in the AM.

[BJV]

Will Robar do "upgrades" like with the Compact Carry?

EL, to echo the question above, will there be a collaboration again with ROBAR for plating parts and modifying mags for the PX4 Carry?

[Bigghoss]

We have not looked at that. I don't even know if it can be done.

If it can be, I might be interested.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

It comes with the Talon Grips in the box.

I have found, in the past, that when ordering Talon Grips for the full size Storm they have a different grip for small backstraps versus med & large. The pistol normally comes with the medium installed. Which Talon Grip (or a new option) will come with the PX4 Carry?

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

It will have the 92 Style Hammer like the Compact Carry. It will have the Competition Trigger Group.

In the video Beretta Live you were in, you said the PX4 Carry would "have the equivalent of a D model hammer spring". Is this different from the original postings about a 12# WC? The D spring is 16#, but shorter.

[AdioSS]

I'm no expert so maybe I'm way off but since the compact and fullsize use the same trigger group, can't you just cut the grip, use a compact spring seat and then just drill a new hole for the retaining pin? Of course now there's the interchangeable backstraps to deal with. I think you'd just have to pick one and stick it on permanently. Or maybe I'm mistaken and talking out my ass. I'm not that familiar with the innards and what not.

The is exactly what you would need to do. But you would need to measure exactly where the holes on the Compact are in the grip so your spring pressure would be correct for the hammer spring.

[LangdonTactical]

In the video Beretta Live you were in, you said the PX4 Carry would "have the equivalent of a D model hammer spring". Is this different from the original postings about a 12# WC? The D spring is 16#, but shorter.

The equivalent of a D Model spring for a PX4. The 16# spring is a D Spring in a 92, not a PX4. The standard spring in a PX4 is less than a D Spring for a 92. The 92 and PX4 do not share the same hammer spring weights for the standard springs.

I will be using a 12# CS spring in these guns.

[LangdonTactical]

I have found, in the past, that when ordering Talon Grips for the full size Storm they have a different grip for small backstraps versus med & large. The pistol normally comes with the medium installed. Which Talon Grip (or a new option) will come with the PX4 Carry?

It will ship with the Medium & Large Talon grip. Just like in the Compact Carry, there will be an envelope in the box to ship the grip back and exchange it for a Small Talon grip if that is what you need.

[LangdonTactical]

EL, to echo the question above, will there be a collaboration again with ROBAR for plating parts and modifying mags for the PX4 Carry?

We have not looked at that yet, possibly.

[AJD21]

Mr. Langdon, I have a full size PX4 already. Do you foresee offering the option of accepting slides and giving them the equivalent work over as the Carry model? Sights, finish, etc.

[Guerrero]

Mr. Langdon, I have a full size PX4 already. Do you foresee offering the option of accepting slides and giving them the equivalent work over as the Carry model? Sights, finish, etc.I believe Robar offers that now.

[Bigghoss]

The is exactly what you would need to do. But you would need to measure exactly where the holes on the Compact are in the grip so your spring pressure would be correct for the hammer spring.

Obviously. But that shouldn't be that difficult though, I wouldn't think.

[LangdonTactical]

Mr. Langdon, I have a full-size PX4 already. Do you foresee offering the option of accepting slides and giving them the equivalent work over as the Carry model? Sights, finish, etc.

We can do that. If you send me a PX4 Full Size, I can turn it into a Carry for $445 including the slide finish and all the parts. That would be everything except the magazines and the gun.

[David S.]

We can do that. If you send me a PX4 Full Size, I can turn it into a Carry for $445 including the slide finish and all the parts. That would be everything except the magazines and the gun.

What does it cost without refinishing the slide?

[BJV]

We have not looked at [a collaboration again with ROBAR for plating parts and modifying mags for the PX4 Carry] yet, possibly.

This would be a very desirable option. Without a collaboration with ROBAR, to do it on one's own with your trigger job (which is mandatory on this gun IMO), one would have to:

1) Buy the base PX4 Carry from LTT
2) Ship the appropriate parts and mags to ROBAR for modification and plating
3) Ship the gun back to LTT with the plated parts for a trigger job.

Having all of this available as a package for the PX4 Carry (à la the PX4 Compact Carry Mod 4/5) would be tremendous!

[CoGT3]

So yes, the cat is out of the bag. We are launching this gun at the SHOT Show.

23227

The PX4 Carry.
After quite a bit of discussion and compromise, the decision has been made to move forward. Langdon Tactical will build these guns and ship directly to customers and dealers. Guns will come to us as stock PX4s and we will basically turn them into full-size versions of the Compact Carry to include;

Sniper Gray Cerakote slide
AmeriGlo Sights
Stealth Levers
Extended Mag Button
Competition Hammer Group
12 Lb Chrome Silicon Hammer Spring
Talon Grips
2 17 round mags and one 20 round mag

Exact same pricing as the Compact Carry so the gun will have a MAP of $795.

This gun will be a Langdon Tactical exclusive.

Langdon Tactical should be offering them for presale very soon on the website with first deliveries in about 6 weeks.

Looks like another great package for those interested in the a Full Size PX4 that is truly ready to roll right out of the box!

At this point, I have 3 PX4 CC. 2 are Mod 4's, my primary carry and trainer, the 3rd is "just" a CC. That one is rapidly becoming my wife's, hopefully will become her house gun. My other Beretta is a WC Brig Tact which is serving house duties for my with X300 attached.

When Beretta did the PX4 rebate, I couldn't help but pick up a FS PX4 to try. The CC is such a fast and flat cycling gun, it really made the Brig Tact feel sluggish and slow in comparison. Especially as my carry ammo is standard pressure 147 HST, and all practice ammo is also standard pressure, brigadier profile slide really is overkill for standard pressure 9mm. I was really curious if the FS PX4 would bridge the gap between the big and small Berettas. I added the full stealth kit and WC 12 HS to the FS, and just this week a LTT trigger in a bag. So at this point I have decent idea how the new Carry model should act. I also recently picked up a WC Cent Tac that also received a LTT trigger in a bag and full WC CS spring set. Again, thinking the shorter and thinner slide on the Cent Tac might do a better job of keeping up with the speed of the PX4 CC.

I had a chance to run the FS PX4 and Cent Tact at the range today, and both felt like the comprise I was looking for between the Brig Tact and the PX4 CC. When shorting drills at speed like the Gabe standards, follow up shots are just quicker for me with the medium sized guns compared to the Brig Tact. And truthfully I do not have the skill set to really take advantage of the longer sight radius at distance the Brig Tact provides. I suspect it will be looking for a new home soon to make space for another Cent Tac or a pair of PX4 Carrys.

I plan to really push the the FA PX4/Cen Tac duel this month and commit one way or the other. I can tell you with the LTT trigger in a bag, the PX4 gave the Cent Tac a run for the money in my hands. There is something about the PX4 frame that just feels better in the hands, points more naturally than the 92 based frames. Also the slide release stays out of the way on the PX4 compared to the 92s, I have to make a very conscious shift of my grip to avoid pressure and failure to lock back on empty on the 92s. Was looking at the 2 frames after the range session and despite them being almost identical in length, width, height it has always felt like I get more of my support hand on the PX4. Side by side, the trigger guard on the PX4 seems to be shorter than the 92, which I believe is allowing me to get my support hand higher on the frame also.

Given that a Cent Tac is $1360 with the Action Tune and LTT has a preorder for the PX4 Carry with LTT trigger job at $875, you can almost buy 2 tuned PX4 Carry for one tuned Cen Tact. Comparing the 2 at this point I think the upside of the PX4 is clearly is a very cost effective package, that is easy to maintain with its 20K maintenance cycle, and easier to work on without needing a zip lock bag (took the G lever of CenTact to install the WC CS spring, that was fun, not). The 2 downsides I see are also the 92 series strengths: magwell frame, with mag guide, and wonderful MecGar mags and every type of grip panel you could want of different textures and thickness. Some may argue the 92 series has more aftermarket options beyond that, but for me, the PX4 CC and Carry have what I need. For me, the Talon rough grip on my PX4 works very well, if I go the FS PX4 longterm they will be stippled. I have no experience with the Robar/LTT modified lip PX4 mags and don't know how far they go to help, but I doubt it will ever be as good as the magwell framed 92s.

A couple of questions/thoughts for EL:
1) Any chance of getting the Carry made up with the slightly less Stealth levers when they are available?
2) Believe there will be interest in a Robar/LTT Mod 4 and Mod 4.66 (do not think the bobbed hammer would be as applicable to the FS). If i go the FS PX4 route instead of Cen Tact thats what I would be looking for. Even the Mod 5s price wise undercut the Cent Tac tuned.
3) Any chance we will ever see a MecGar PX4 magazine? Or can you comment on how much the modified PX4 mags help bridge the gap compared to magwell 92 frames?

Again, congrats on making this happen Ernest!

[Jared]

We can do that. If you send me a PX4 Full Size, I can turn it into a Carry for $445 including the slide finish and all the parts. That would be everything except the magazines and the gun.

Now I've got some thinking to do.....

[Bigghoss]

I would be very interested in a PX4 Carry Mod 5.

[Beretta Dawg]

We can do that. If you send me a PX4 Full Size, I can turn it into a Carry for $445 including the slide finish and all the parts. That would be everything except the magazines and the gun.

Can I send you a Nano and have it converted into a Carry model? 🙃🤔

[LangdonTactical]

What does it cost without refinishing the slide?


It would be $365 with out the slide finish. Not including shipping.

[LangdonTactical]

We are also going to do a PX4 Carry Black edition. Everything except the Cerakote slide and comp trigger pack for $695.

[David S.]

Damn tempting.

[LangdonTactical]

Can I send you a Nano and have it converted into a Carry model? ����

That would be some Magic right there! If I could do that kind of work, I would be retired by now :)

[CoGT3]

Given that a Cent Tac is $1360 with the Action Tune and LTT has a preorder for the PX4 Carry with LTT trigger job at $875, you can almost buy 2 tuned PX4 Carry for one tuned Cen Tact. Comparing the 2 at this point I think the upside of the PX4 is clearly is a very cost effective package, that is easy to maintain with its 20K maintenance cycle, and easier to work on without needing a zip lock bag (took the G lever of CenTact to install the WC CS spring, that was fun, not). The 2 downsides I see are also the 92 series strengths: magwell frame, with mag guide, and wonderful MecGar mags and every type of grip panel you could want of different textures and thickness. Some may argue the 92 series has more aftermarket options beyond that, but for me, the PX4 CC and Carry have what I need. For me, the Talon rough grip on my PX4 works very well, if I go the FS PX4 longterm they will be stippled. I have no experience with the Robar/LTT modified lip PX4 mags and don't know how far they go to help, but I doubt it will ever be as good as the magwell framed 92s.

A couple of questions/thoughts for EL:
1) Any chance of getting the Carry made up with the slightly less Stealth levers when they are available?
2) Believe there will be interest in a Robar/LTT Mod 4 and Mod 4.66 (do not think the bobbed hammer would be as applicable to the FS). If i go the FS PX4 route instead of Cen Tact thats what I would be looking for. Even the Mod 5s price wise undercut the Cent Tac tuned.
3) Any chance we will ever see a MecGar PX4 magazine? Or can you comment on how much the modified PX4 mags help bridge the gap compared to magwell 92 frames?

Again, congrats on making this happen Ernest!

Bumpage for questions at bottom, feel free to ignore the truncated soliloquy above.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[LangdonTactical]

Bumpage for questions at bottom, feel free to ignore the truncated soliloquy above.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Sorry, did not see all those questions. Keeping up with all the places I am supposed to answer questions gets away from me sometimes.

1) I know the new levers are in the works, not sure how long that will be. But yes, I am sure we can make that happen when they hit the streets.
2) I have not sat down with ROBAR yet, but I am sure we can work that out.
3) I really wish they would. Making the magazine modifications is not really worth the time on the resale market. But yes, they help a ton, just like the MecGar mags do on a 92.

By the way, there is some mag well beveling that can be done on the PX4 as well and it is very helpful. I have posted pictures here before. I turn the grip capture spring around and put it in backwards, then bevel the back in quite a bit. It helps a ton and basically acts like the Wilson Mag guide. I think it reloads just as fast as a 92 with a beveled mag well now.

[LangdonTactical]

Looks like another great package for those interested in the a Full Size PX4 that is truly ready to roll right out of the box!

At this point, I have 3 PX4 CC. 2 are Mod 4's, my primary carry and trainer, the 3rd is "just" a CC. That one is rapidly becoming my wife's, hopefully, will become her house gun. My other Beretta is a WC Brig Tact which is serving house duties for my with X300 attached.

When Beretta did the PX4 rebate, I couldn't help but pick up a FS PX4 to try. The CC is such a fast and flat cycling gun, it really made the Brig Tact feel sluggish and slow in comparison. Especially as my carry ammo is standard pressure 147 HST, and all practice ammo is also standard pressure, brigadier profile slide really is overkill for standard pressure 9mm. I was really curious if the FS PX4 would bridge the gap between the big and small Berettas. I added the full stealth kit and WC 12 HS to the FS, and just this week a LTT trigger in a bag. So at this point I have decent idea how the new Carry model should act. I also recently picked up a WC Cent Tac that also received a LTT trigger in a bag and full WC CS spring set. Again, thinking the shorter and thinner slide on the Cent Tac might do a better job of keeping up with the speed of the PX4 CC.

I had a chance to run the FS PX4 and Cent Tact at the range today, and both felt like the comprise I was looking for between the Brig Tact and the PX4 CC. When shorting drills at speed like the Gabe standards, follow up shots are just quicker for me with the medium sized guns compared to the Brig Tact. And truthfully I do not have the skill set to really take advantage of the longer sight radius at distance the Brig Tact provides. I suspect it will be looking for a new home soon to make space for another Cent Tac or a pair of PX4 Carrys.

I plan to really push the the FA PX4/Cen Tac duel this month and commit one way or the other. I can tell you with the LTT trigger in a bag, the PX4 gave the Cent Tac a run for the money in my hands. There is something about the PX4 frame that just feels better in the hands, points more naturally than the 92 based frames. Also the slide release stays out of the way on the PX4 compared to the 92s, I have to make a very conscious shift of my grip to avoid pressure and failure to lock back on empty on the 92s. Was looking at the 2 frames after the range session and despite them being almost identical in length, width, height it has always felt like I get more of my support hand on the PX4. Side by side, the trigger guard on the PX4 seems to be shorter than the 92, which I believe is allowing me to get my support hand higher on the frame also.

Given that a Cent Tac is $1360 with the Action Tune and LTT has a preorder for the PX4 Carry with LTT trigger job at $875, you can almost buy 2 tuned PX4 Carry for one tuned Cen Tact. Comparing the 2 at this point I think the upside of the PX4 is clearly is a very cost effective package, that is easy to maintain with its 20K maintenance cycle, and easier to work on without needing a zip lock bag (took the G lever of CenTact to install the WC CS spring, that was fun, not). The 2 downsides I see are also the 92 series strengths: magwell frame, with mag guide, and wonderful MecGar mags and every type of grip panel you could want of different textures and thickness. Some may argue the 92 series has more aftermarket options beyond that, but for me, the PX4 CC and Carry have what I need. For me, the Talon rough grip on my PX4 works very well, if I go the FS PX4 longterm they will be stippled. I have no experience with the Robar/LTT modified lip PX4 mags and don't know how far they go to help, but I doubt it will ever be as good as the magwell framed 92s.

A couple of questions/thoughts for EL:
1) Any chance of getting the Carry made up with the slightly less Stealth levers when they are available?
2) Believe there will be interest in a Robar/LTT Mod 4 and Mod 4.66 (do not think the bobbed hammer would be as applicable to the FS). If i go the FS PX4 route instead of Cen Tact thats what I would be looking for. Even the Mod 5s price wise undercut the Cent Tac tuned.
3) Any chance we will ever see a MecGar PX4 magazine? Or can you comment on how much the modified PX4 mags help bridge the gap compared to magwell 92 frames?

Again, congrats on making this happen Ernest!

Thanks for all the kind words and support. I answered the questions above, but did not say thanks for the support.

I love the 92, but you bring up some very solid points. I will always want 92s to shoot, but this PX4 is a workhorse like no other.

I agree with you on this PX4 Carry, it is really a great deal. If you add up all the extra parts you get, even if you take out the slide finish, it's still $365 worth of parts. You would have to get the base gun for $430, get all the parts shipped to you, and then have them installed.

I am pretty proud of the pricing on this project and really glad that Beretta is stepping up and helping this happen. Truly shows that Beretta is trying to listen to its customers and to me.

Hopefully, it will be really successful so that they keep listening.

One last thing. This is an LTT exclusive, so there will be no BS pricing scams out there that kill it for dealers. The gun is well worth what the customers are paying.

[BJV]

Bumpage for questions at bottom...

Thank you!



Sorry, did not see all those questions. Keeping up with all the places I am supposed to answer questions gets away from me sometimes.

1) I know the new levers are in the works, not sure how long that will be. But yes, I am sure we can make that happen when they hit the streets.
2) I have not sat down with ROBAR yet, but I am sure we can work that out.


Great to hear on both counts, and especially #2! Looking forward to a LTT/ROBAR package for the PX4 Carry.

[CoGT3]

Sorry, did not see all those questions. Keeping up with all the places I am supposed to answer questions gets away from me sometimes.

1) I know the new levers are in the works, not sure how long that will be. But yes, I am sure we can make that happen when they hit the streets.

Good to know! I don't know if I will be able to hold out that long before ordering a Mod 4.6 but at least it will an option if I order a backup/training copy.


2) I have not sat down with ROBAR yet, but I am sure we can work that out.

Great to hear also. For some of us really committing to the platform it makes sense. Nice way to try the modified mags also.


3) I really wish they would. Making the magazine modifications is not really worth the time on the resale market. But yes, they help a ton, just like the MecGar mags do on a 92.

By the way, there is some mag well beveling that can be done on the PX4 as well and it is very helpful. I have posted pictures here before. I turn the grip capture spring around and put it in backwards, then bevel the back in quite a bit. It helps a ton and basically acts like the Wilson Mag guide. I think it reloads just as fast as a 92 with a beveled mag well now.

Now remember seeing that. Will hunt back and give it a try on my current FS. Nice to know between the mag well beveling and mag modifications it evens the playing field. I know Robar is selling modified/plated mags, think they would be willing to do that for customer supplied mags? Could see sending them a bunch of FS and compact mags in the future.

[CoGT3]

Thanks for all the kind words and support. I answered the questions above, but did not say thanks for the support.

I love the 92, but you bring up some very solid points. I will always want 92s to shoot, but this PX4 is a workhorse like no other.



I would suspect at this point shooting 92's is as boring and routine for you as us putting our shoes on in the morning. There really is something to an all metal handgun. I came to the Berettas through CZ 75 FS and compacts and loved them, just where not any hi viz sight options like the Ameriglos that worked with my mid 40 eyes. That being said, for some reason the PX4 just seems to work as well or better for me than the 92. For my expected use, SD/HD, and drills that work on those skill sets I am as quick and accurate as the 92 without introducing the failure to slide lock I have with the 92. Great to have options for sure.

At this point, I believe my WC Brig Tact will be looking for a new home. Will need some funds for a PX4 Carry or second Cen Tact when I decide which way to go. May be sacrilege, the Brig Tact is a fine handgun, but I just don't see it getting much use. Will likely add a FS 92 back in the future if we can get one based on the Vertec slide, replaceable front side, maybe some front slide serrations, and knocking that sharp ledge near the back of the trigger guard. The Cen Tact is here to stay even if the PX4 FS is the final answer to house duty. As others have said, for a 92 Beretta the Cen Tact probably does everything most could want from an all metal handgun.

[revchuck38]

I'm late to this party, but I just picked up a standard full-size F version and six spare mags (mags were $20, couldn't resist). I went straight to the range to try it out, using ammo left over from my class last weekend at Karl Rhen's place (https://www.krtraining.com/) plus some odds and ends. I went through 88 rounds of Winchester 124 grain NATO spec, 12 rounds of 124 grain +P HST, 50 rounds of PPU 124 grain NATO spec, nine rounds of standard velocity 124 grain PMC hardball and eight rounds of my standard velocity 124 grain FMJ handloads. All the ammo fed, fired and ejected with no issues, with the hotter stuff landing in a neat pile. The bullets tended to go through the same hole, too. Nice!

I had some "getting acquainted" issues with the gun, though. The first three mags full failed to lock back. I looked at my grip and saw my thumb was resting on the slide release. I repositioned my thumb and the slide locked back like it's supposed to. Imagine that. :rolleyes: Also, placing my trigyger finger in the same place I use with my CZ-75s resulted in pulling shots low-left. Looks like I need to install the large backstrap. The trigger is rougher than on the CZs too, but they have 10k and 5k rounds through them, I expect the PX4 will smooth up with use.

I'm going to order an OWB 2 from JMCK for it tomorrow. Are there any mass-produced holsters, OWB or IWB, for this pistol that are worth getting in the interim?

[TexasSiegfried]

I'm late to this party, but I just picked up a standard full-size F version and six spare mags (mags were $20, couldn't resist). I went straight to the range to try it out, using ammo left over from my class last weekend at Karl Rhen's place (https://www.krtraining.com/) plus some odds and ends. I went through 88 rounds of Winchester 124 grain NATO spec, 12 rounds of 124 grain +P HST, 50 rounds of PPU 124 grain NATO spec, nine rounds of standard velocity 124 grain PMC hardball and eight rounds of my standard velocity 124 grain FMJ handloads. All the ammo fed, fired and ejected with no issues, with the hotter stuff landing in a neat pile. The bullets tended to go through the same hole, too. Nice!

I had some "getting acquainted" issues with the gun, though. The first three mags full failed to lock back. I looked at my grip and saw my thumb was resting on the slide release. I repositioned my thumb and the slide locked back like it's supposed to. Imagine that. :rolleyes: Also, placing my trigyger finger in the same place I use with my CZ-75s resulted in pulling shots low-left. Looks like I need to install the large backstrap. The trigger is rougher than on the CZs too, but they have 10k and 5k rounds through them, I expect the PX4 will smooth up with use.

I'm going to order an OWB 2 from JMCK for it tomorrow. Are there any mass-produced holsters, OWB or IWB, for this pistol that are worth getting in the interim?I have holsters from on your 6 designs for my Sigs, very happy with them. Here is their Beretta line:

https://onyour6designs.com/product/beretta-holster/

Typically ship very quickly.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[revchuck38]

I have holsters from on your 6 designs for my Sigs, very happy with them. Here is their Beretta line:

https://onyour6designs.com/product/beretta-holster/

Typically ship very quickly.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Ordered an IWB from them, thanks!

[TexasSiegfried]

Ordered an IWB from them, thanks!That's great! They are a good Texas company, really nice gents, and they even have a small store front you can visit if you are ever in San Antonio. They got me into a holster for my SP2022 very quickly while I waited on my wing claw from JMCK.

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[revchuck38]

FWIW, I chronographed some common training ammo through my PX4 and posted the results here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29892-Velocities-of-Some-9x19-124-Grain-Training-Ammo&p=717281&viewfull=1#post717281).

At 1:46 PM, I ordered a 12 lb. hammer spring for the PX4 from LTT. At 1:51 PM, I got the email from LTT that it had been shipped. I realize that just means the label had been created, but day-um, that's fast!

[AdioSS]

Also, I went down the list of all the extractors that were available from Brownell's for the PX4 and sent all those part numbers to Beretta. They are looking into this and hopefully, I will have some solid answers soon.
Did I miss the post on this update? ;D

And, if you happen to think about it the next time you communicate with the Italians, I suspect that the extractor for the PX4 fullsize is the same part as that from the old Cougar slide. I’ve compared a fullsize Px4 Type C with a few Cougars. The similarities & closeness in every dimension I’ve been able to measure has been in too close to tell any difference. I’m tempted to order up a new PX4 extractor to try in an old Cougar slide.

Oh yeah, my question is are there any differences in the extractors on the FS/G & the D/Type C slides? I know that in the old 92/96’s the D slides used a slightly different extractor due to not having the same internals as the FS/G slides.

[LangdonTactical]

Did I miss the post on this update? ;D

And, if you happen to think about it the next time you communicate with the Italians, I suspect that the extractor for the PX4 fullsize is the same part as that from the old Cougar slide. I’ve compared a fullsize Px4 Type C with a few Cougars. The similarities & closeness in every dimension I’ve been able to measure has been in too close to tell any difference. I’m tempted to order up a new PX4 extractor to try in an old Cougar slide.

Oh yeah, my question is are there any differences in the extractors on the FS/G & the D/Type C slides? I know that in the old 92/96’s the D slides used a slightly different extractor due to not having the same internals as the FS/G slides.

I am still waiting for answers there. There is some confusion there for sure with several different part numbers.

[AJLooch]

Hey everyone. Has anyone else had light strike issues with the Wilson 12# Spring in a Fullsize PX4? Just installed tge spring this week and went to the range today to test it and in 100 rounds had about 20 light strikes. Most were on the DA first shot, but also had 4 in SA. All fired on the second attempt with another DA press. These were handloads (CCI Small Pistol Primers) but the same ammo was 100% in a VP9 and Glock 19. I had no issues with the D spring that was in previously. Just curious if anyone else has had issues as I thought the 12# was pretty safe in the PX4? Thanks for any help.

[MSparks909]

Hey everyone. Has anyone else had light strike issues with the Wilson 12# Spring in a Fullsize PX4? Just installed tge spring this week and went to the range today to test it and in 100 rounds had about 20 light strikes. Most were on the DA first shot, but also had 4 in SA. All fired on the second attempt with another DA press. These were handloads (CCI Small Pistol Primers) but the same ammo was 100% in a VP9 and Glock 19. I had no issues with the D spring that was in previously. Just curious if anyone else has had issues as I thought the 12# was pretty safe in the PX4? Thanks for any help.

That’s definitely not normal. I don’t have near the round counts of LangdonTactical but I’ve got ~10,000+ rounds through 4 different PX4s (all with the 12# spring). I’ve fired NATO, Russian steel cases ammo, reloads, other factory ammo and everything in between with no issues. Check the tip of your firing pin. Are your primers fully seated?

[AJLooch]

Thanks for the reply. The FP looks normal, but I never noticed that the FP hole on the breechface has quite a bevel to it is that normal? I do case gauge and visually inspect each round I load, but 1 or 2 could get through but I don't think 20. I shot 350 rounds today and th only light strikes were in the PX4. I will bring factory next time as well to compare.

[JohnN]

That’s definitely not normal. I don’t have near the round counts of LangdonTactical but I’ve got ~10,000+ rounds through 4 different PX4s (all with the 12# spring). I’ve fired NATO, Russian steel cases ammo, reloads, other factory ammo and everything in between with no issues. Check the tip of your firing pin. Are your primers fully seated?I have been using Ernest's 11lb. hammer spring in both my FS and CC with no light strikes using S&B.
The 92's don't seem to tolerate that light of spring in my experience.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[revchuck38]

FWIW, I chronographed some common training ammo through my PX4 and posted the results here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29892-Velocities-of-Some-9x19-124-Grain-Training-Ammo&p=717281&viewfull=1#post717281).

At 1:46 PM, I ordered a 12 lb. hammer spring for the PX4 from LTT. At 1:51 PM, I got the email from LTT that it had been shipped. I realize that just means the label had been created, but day-um, that's fast!

So, I've been waiting for this spring to arrive. Saturday it was at the USPS distribution center in Lafayette, LA, which is normal. Then checking the tracking number showed it as being "In transit - delayed". I checked this morning and got this:


Status
In-Transit, Delayed
March 14, 2018 at 10:11 pm

Arrived at USPS Regional Facility

BARRIGADA GU DISTRIBUTION CENTER

I had to google "GU" - it's Guam. Guess that USPS thought it needed a Pacific island vacation. :rolleyes:

[LangdonTactical]

Hey everyone. Has anyone else had light strike issues with the Wilson 12# Spring in a Fullsize PX4? Just installed tge spring this week and went to the range today to test it and in 100 rounds had about 20 light strikes. Most were on the DA first shot, but also had 4 in SA. All fired on the second attempt with another DA press. These were handloads (CCI Small Pistol Primers) but the same ammo was 100% in a VP9 and Glock 19. I had no issues with the D spring that was in previously. Just curious if anyone else has had issues as I thought the 12# was pretty safe in the PX4? Thanks for any help.

My guess is something else is causing these light strikes. I have well over 100,000 rounds through different guns with the 12# hammer spring with no issues, 50,000 rounds on a single spring. I currently have about 3,000 rounds on an 11# spring with no light strikes at all. So I believe something else is causing your issues.

[AJLooch]

Thanks Ernest. I may pull the hammer group and see if anything looks out of whack like a loose hammer strut etc. Anything in particular to watch out for? Thanks in advance.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

Hey everyone. Has anyone else had light strike issues with the Wilson 12# Spring in a Fullsize PX4? Just installed tge spring this week and went to the range today to test it and in 100 rounds had about 20 light strikes. Most were on the DA first shot, but also had 4 in SA. All fired on the second attempt with another DA press. These were handloads (CCI Small Pistol Primers) but the same ammo was 100% in a VP9 and Glock 19. I had no issues with the D spring that was in previously. Just curious if anyone else has had issues as I thought the 12# was pretty safe in the PX4? Thanks for any help.

Curious, how many rounds are on that pistol? How many rounds on that pistol since the slide was disassembled and the firing pin channel cleaned?

[AJLooch]

I bought it used but previous owner stated maybe 1000 roundish. I will certainly try cleaning the top end. Neck it could even be a broken firing pin. Thanks so much for the help.

[PX4 Storm Tracker]

I bought it used but previous owner stated maybe 1000 roundish. I will certainly try cleaning the top end. Neck it could even be a broken firing pin. Thanks so much for the help.

Also, as to your bevel question: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25341-Beretta-PX4-Storm-Underrated-is-an-Understatement!/page66 Post #652