Lever Guns

[Wheeler]

Last I had heard, they used some plastic gears on it. Don't know how that matters, but it makes me pause. A takedown in 358 would be pretty cool.

That's the first I heard of that. My .308 BLR doesn't but it's a few years old. I'll definitely look into it before springing for a new one.

[SLG]

That's the first I heard of that. My .308 BLR doesn't but it's a few years old. I'll definitely look into it before springing for a new one.

Please let us know if there is any truth to that.

How do you like the 308? Pretty well, I assume.

[Malamute]

So, someone tell me how a 45 Colt using Ruger only loads would not come close to that level out of a 16" tube? I have to think it would be a pretty impressive package. Light, short, hard hitting, very reasonable recoil.

I don't know what loads GJM uses in his 450, but in the right gun, the 45-70 can run a 400 gr bullet at around 2100-2200 fps I believe. I haven't reviewed carbine data on the 45 Colt recently, but think they top out around 1600-1800fps with a 300 gr, which is a relatively soft 45-70 or 450 load.

I don't have firsthand knowledge of the BLR, but I've also heard they had plastic gears in the rack levering system. Denis Dpris knows about them I believe. Hes a member here, will track him down and see if he can shed any light on it.


ETA: FWIW, I knew a guy that had a BLR in the 80s. It locked up if he shot 7.62 ball. it was OK with 308 commercial ammo.

[Wheeler]

Please let us know if there is any truth to that.

How do you like the 308? Pretty well, I assume.

It's a great rifle. The only two complaints I have are that it's relatively heavy and the trigger is somewhere in the 6.5 to 7 pound range. That makes accurate shots at 300ish yards a bit tough. I put an older 6X Redfield on it (steel tube) and can get groups slightly over 1" with cheap factory 150 grain ammo.

It points well, shoulders and mounts well and the action is amazingly smooth. For the type of hunting I do here in Georgia it's a great rifle.

On on another slight tangent, I handled one of the newer ones with the pistol grip stock and didn't like it. I hesitated on one of the stainless and laminate takedown versions in .223 that showed up used in a local shop for about 30 minutes too long. The store owner decided to take it off the rack and keep it for himself. I'm still kicking myself over that one even though it's a heavy gun for a .223 in my opinion.

[SLG]

I don't know what loads GJM uses in his 450, but in the right gun, the 45-70 can run a 400 gr bullet at around 2100-2200 fps I believe. I haven't reviewed carbine data on the 45 Colt recently, but think they top out around 1600-1800fps with a 300 gr, which is a relatively soft 45-70 or 450 load.


That is definitely true, but my angle is that a 45C in a Ruger revolver can take the biggest game on earth. Out of a carbine, it should just be that much closer to 45-70. Not saying it is actually equivalent to a 45-70, but will the game know the difference?

[Malamute]

That is definitely true, but my angle is that a 45C in a Ruger revolver can take the biggest game on earth. Out of a carbine, it should just be that much closer to 45-70. Not saying it is actually equivalent to a 45-70, but will the game know the difference?

That's a good question. It also probably depends on what you actually want to do with it. In real life, its probably enough for the lower 48, if not elsewhere up close. One thing it does well is its a bit lighter than the 45-70s (in the small actioned guns like 92 Winchester types or Marlin 94s). If hunting instead of keeping sharp edged critters off your rear, its probably fine if you can work within its practical range. I saw pictures of a moose shot with one by a guy in Canada. He thought it worked fairly well.

[Robinson]

I handled one of the newer ones with the pistol grip stock and didn't like it.

That really goes to show how people differ -- I've handled both and greatly prefer the pistol grip stock.

[Wheeler]

That really goes to show how people differ -- I've handled both and greatly prefer the pistol grip stock.

My preference probably has to do with growing up with Winchester '94's.

[Malamute]

I saw this on the leverguns forum. Henry is coming out with a box magazine lever action, somewhat reminiscent of the BLR, but with some differences. Chamberings will be 308, 243 and 223 at first

The plastic gear in the BLR was mentioned. No plastic gear in the Henry apparently.

http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65078

[GJM]

I don't know what loads GJM uses in his 450, but in the right gun, the 45-70 can run a 400 gr bullet at around 2100-2200 fps I believe. I haven't reviewed carbine data on the 45 Colt recently, but think they top out around 1600-1800fps with a 300 gr, which is a relatively soft 45-70 or 450 load.

I don't have firsthand knowledge of the BLR, but I've also heard they had plastic gears in the rack levering system. Denis Dpris knows about them I believe. Hes a member here, will track him down and see if he can shed any light on it.


ETA: FWIW, I knew a guy that had a BLR in the 80s. It locked up if he shot 7.62 ball. it was OK with 308 commercial ammo.

While we can shoot .450 Marlin Hornady factory in the model 70 bolt, the fun loads are the hand loaded 300 Barnes at 2,200 and 350 Swift at 2,150 fps.

[Malamute]

I figured they were fairly stout. Should work well on the large stuff up north.

Had a friend that loaded some similar loads with 400 gr bullets in 45-70. He asked if I wanted to shoot any. I declined, saying they likely wouldn't be much fun in his light Marlin. He later said he shot some, then pulled the rest down,...they werent any fun to shoot in his light Marlin.

[SLG]

Well...it looks like the Henry 45C's won't handle bullets over 270gr. Kind of limiting for what I had in mind. Might have to stick with 45.70.

[Malamute]

In the 45 Colt realm, either the Marlin 1894 or the Winchester 92 type may be more flexible. I'm not familiar with how the Marlins work with longer or heavier bullets. I know theres a few little tricks to getting the Winchester 92 types to run on longer OAL and with fatter nose bullets.


Did you see the Henry long range rifle in the link? Its got my curiosity up. I think its a better looking rifle than the BLR.

[Wheeler]

I saw this on the leverguns forum. Henry is coming out with a box magazine lever action, somewhat reminiscent of the BLR, but with some differences. Chamberings will be 308, 243 and 223 at first

The plastic gear in the BLR was mentioned. No plastic gear in the Henry apparently.

http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65078

At first glance I thought it was a BLR. I'm going to keep track of this one.

[SLG]

In the 45 Colt realm, either the Marlin 1894 or the Winchester 92 type may be more flexible. I'm not familiar with how the Marlins work with longer or heavier bullets. I know theres a few little tricks to getting the Winchester 92 types to run on longer OAL and with fatter nose bullets.


Did you see the Henry long range rifle in the link? Its got my curiosity up. I think its a better looking rifle than the BLR.

It does look good, thanks for the heads up.

Spoke to a guy who knows a lot about the Henry guns last night. He said altering the lifter is not an issue to make the longer heavier bullets work. It is apparently difficult to eject a live round, if that becomes necessary. Given the mag tube feed, I don't imagine that will be much of a problem for me, but I don't really know. Loading through the port should still be easily accomplished, but again, I don't know for sure. Maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree with the whole pistol caliber aspect.

[1slow]

I had a BLR .243 circa 1973. Several times the toothed lever to bolt engagement kept getting out of proper time. Browning tried and failed to fix it. A local gunsmith managed to fix it and it was sold. The BLR may have improved since then. I had a sample size of 1.

This jumping time was a shame as it would shoot a 3 shot group 3/4'' wide X 1 1/4'' high with factory ammo.

[Robinson]

The new Henry rifle looks interesting, though I'd prefer a pistol grip stock (I realize I may be in the minority on that).

I wonder why companies introducing rifles chambered for .223 don't just go ahead and chamber them for 5.56 instead, or take CZ's approach and make sure their .223 rifles work with 5.56 ammunition.

[1slow]

Tighter chamber spec (.223) is supposed to help accuracy at the cost of not being able to chamber (5.56x45mm) larger rounds. Question is are you building a target/varmint gun or do you want to be able to use a wider variety of ammo.

[Robinson]

Tighter chamber spec (.223) is supposed to help accuracy at the cost of not being able to chamber (5.56x45mm) larger rounds. Question is are you building a target/varmint gun or do you want to be able to use a wider variety of ammo.

That sounds like a reasonable explanation, however GJM has posted that his .223 CZ carbines shoot MOA with several loads and CZ claims they will handle 5.56 with no problem. Of course, that may not be good enough for serious long range use. It's not a big deal, just something I wonder about.

[Malamute]

The new Henry rifle looks interesting, though I'd prefer a pistol grip stock (I realize I may be in the minority on that).

I wonder why companies introducing rifles chambered for .223 don't just go ahead and chamber them for 5.56 instead, or take CZ's approach and make sure their .223 rifles work with 5.56 ammunition.

I believe some do. The real difference is the throat, not the chamber, as I understand it. Ruger has always said their 223 guns were safe to fire any 5.56 rounds in, both their mini-14s and bolt action 223's. In any event, if a particular gun does have the minimum spec 223 chamber/throat, a throating reamer can be rented and open it up fairly simply.

The 223 designation is probably more oriented towards sport shooters who have little or no knowledge of a 5.56 or what differences there may be.

I shot 5.56 ammo in my CZ 527 without any problem. Its likely throated in such a way that it doesn't matter what loads you shoot. Theres differences in other calibers. Browning 45-70s are known to have short throats compared to some other factory guns. It only matters with some bullet profiles, and is simple to open up the throat if need be.

[Robinson]

I believe some do. The real difference is the throat, not the chamber, as I understand it. Ruger has always said their 223 guns were safe to fire any 5.56 rounds in, both their mini-14s and bolt action 223's. In any event, if a particular gun does have the minimum spec 223 chamber/throat, a throating reamer can be rented and open it up fairly simply.

The 223 designation is probably more oriented towards sport shooters who have little or no knowledge of a 5.56 or what differences there may be.

I shot 5.56 ammo in my CZ 527 without any problem. Its likely throated in such a way that it doesn't matter what loads you shoot. Theres differences in other calibers. Browning 45-70s are known to have short throats compared to some other factory guns. It only matters with some bullet profiles, and is simple to open up the throat if need be.

Interesting, thanks for your input.

[GJM]

Was just shooting my Brockman pre 64 twin to Darryl's Marlin 30-30:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsfwmsuzcs.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsfwmsuzcs.jpeg.html)

[SLG]

That is a nice looking gun. Does the butt trap work better in 30-30 than it does in 45-70?

[GJM]

That is a nice looking gun. Does the butt trap work better in 30-30 than it does in 45-70?

This works great.

[dbateman]

5795

A few lever guns for you.

L-R Win 94 30-30 trapper, Win 94 45Lc trapper, Win mod 71 348, Win BB94375, Win 94/22, Marlin 39A, and an Adler 12ga.


I like lever guns :D

[LtDave]

Found this junky old Winchester .38-40 lever gun yesterday:
6375
Dates to 1884, waiting on a letter to see if it was shipped in this configuration.

[SecondsCount]

Found this junky old Winchester .38-40 lever gun
Dates to 1884, waiting on a letter to see if it was shipped in this configuration.

That's a beauty! Amazing wood.

[Malamute]

Holy Cows!

Really nice 73 carbine.

[coldcase1984]

Lt. Dave, thanks for correcting thread drift so handsomely! I'll be in my bunk, pondering a tattoo of that '73!

[Crews]

I saw this on the leverguns forum. Henry is coming out with a box magazine lever action, somewhat reminiscent of the BLR, but with some differences. Chamberings will be 308, 243 and 223 at first

The plastic gear in the BLR was mentioned. No plastic gear in the Henry apparently.

http://levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65078

Oh my! This is going to cost me some money. Always wished there was a solid modern option to replicate the ole' Savage model 99 and the shortcomings of the BLR.

[Bigghoss]

Dangit guys. In the last two days of browsing PF you've convinced me I need a CZ 527 and a Marlin 336y. If I wasn't single already I probably would be by the time I got through taking care of these "needs". :)

Who am I kidding? I need all of the guns. ALL. OF. THEM. I was going to buy them anyway.

[okie john]

So, someone tell me how a 45 Colt using Ruger only loads would not come close to that level out of a 16" tube? I have to think it would be a pretty impressive package. Light, short, hard hitting, very reasonable recoil.

I had a Clements 5-shot 45 Colt for a couple of years. It came with custom load data, but it would move a 320-grain bullet at 1,600 fps in a 7.5" barrel, and a 350-grain bullet at 1,500. Both of those loads specified an LBT bullet that hung well out of the case to increase room for powder. It's been a while, but I seem to remember that pressures were between 45k psi and 50k psi, which might be a little much for a rear-locking lever gun.

A few years later, I also spent some time with a 20" Marlin 1894 in 44 Magnum, and chronographed ammo in it and a 7.5" Ruger Bisley. I found that a good rule of thumb was that the rifle would add ~300 fps to whatever I was getting from the revolver.

So if you were to take the proprietary 45 Colt data that came with my Clements gun and modify the velocity increase for a 20" barrel to allow for a 16" barrel, then I'd expect to see another ~200 fps, or about 1,800 for the 320-grain slug and about 1,700 for the 350. I suspect that there's a tipping point with the 45 Colt, and that it occurs right around 350-360 grains, so velocity would probably drop off pretty steeply as bullets get up around 400 grains. In other words, if you want to use bullets heavier than about 360 grains, then you need a bigger case.

Ammo is another issue. The 5-shot 45 Colt is pretty much built around custom cast gas checked bullets seated long in the case. I'm not sure that they'd feed through a typical lever gun without some modifications. Even with gas checks, getting the best performance out of cast bullets as velocities climb over about 1,500 fps is a pretty specialized business. Whether my impression was accurate or not, I always felt like I was right on the ragged edge of safety with those loads in the Clements gun, not because of his workmanship, but because of the brass.

In the end I sold the Clements gun. I felt that it would have been fine as long as I was hunting close to home and the weather was cool. But I wouldn't get on an commercial airliner to hunt with something that ammo like that, and I wouldn't have wanted to use those loads in hot weather. I could have loaded it down somewhat or used less specialized bullets, both of which would have rendered it about like the hot 44 Magnum that I was trying to outrun in the first place.

Finally, I don't know that "light", "hard hitting", and "very reasonable recoil" ever align in the same place and time in real life.


Okie John

[Unobtanium]

That's a beauty! Amazing wood.

Glad I'm not the only one thay reacted as viscerally.

[ralph]

Too bad The .223 Henry dosen't take AR mags, being able to put a 10, 20,rnd mag in would be great..

[HenryJ]

Long thread and needs more pics :) I like my Marlin lever guns...

45/70 1895XLR

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/leverloop.JPG

30/30

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/3030.JPG

39a .22LR

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/22.JPG

[ralph]

Long thread and needs more pics :) I like my Marlin lever guns...

45/70 1895XLR

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/leverloop.JPG

30/30

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/3030.JPG

39a .22LR

http://www.s-10crewcab.net/henryj_folder/22.JPG


The 39a's are classic's Over the years ,Ive had a few chances to pick one up..I never did, as I figured they'd always be around. I regret that..

[HenryJ]

The 39a's are classic's Over the years ,Ive had a few chances to pick one up..I never did, as I figured they'd always be around. I regret that..Very fortunate to get my mother's 39a It was given to the eldest daughter who lives in a wet climate and has no desire to care for a firearm. She was wise enough to let me keep it. It has very little blue, but is not deteriorating. A wonderful tack driver. A real pleasure to shoot.

[Duelist]

6817

My dad had a 336 when I was a kid. .30-30, but he never hunted much, and it ended up going to pay the rent for a couple of months and never came back.

Somehow, I got my hands on a Marlin catalog and just spent hours drooling over the 39a and 39 Texan. Never made up my mind which I wanted more, and never got one since my mother forbade my father and uncles from getting me one.

About two years ago, I came across the 30AS pictured here (what they used to call the plain Jane 336 in an unadorned, no checkering birch stock), and got it for, IIRC, $225. Shot a box through it with the open sights, but it seemed to hit high, even with the ladder as low as it would go. And my eyes aren't really what they used to be, so I put a 4x Leupold scope I had lying around on it. Shoots pretty good, but the old Leupold M7 is really more of a collector thing now than a practical scope, so it might get swapped out, or I might try a peep sight. I hesitate to do that, though, since most shots on game out here are pretty far. Which is why I still haven't hunted with it - the only shot I got on a buck last year was 300 yards. Made a clean kill with my .243, but I'm pretty sure the .30-30 isn't the best choice for that kind of hunting.

[Lost River]

Marlin "Limited" 16" non ported .44 magnum, topped with fixed 2.5X Weaver.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/IMG_0691_zpsaxjwwppd.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/IMG_0691_zpsaxjwwppd.jpg.html)

[JHC]

Marlin "Limited" 16" non ported .44 magnum, topped with fixed 2.5X Weaver.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/IMG_0691_zpsaxjwwppd.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/IMG_0691_zpsaxjwwppd.jpg.html)

FWIW I've hunted for years with a 1-4x and a 2-7 and in 99.99% of those total hours my scope was set to 2X. (Woods hunting).

[okie john]

I will likely be grabbing a Marlin Youth lever action in 30/30 next week as it is priced right and I like the size.

Had one of these in my hands today. It seems to balance about like a 20" gun. I'll probably end up with one sooner rather than later.


Okie John

[Lost River]

FWIW I've hunted for years with a 1-4x and a 2-7 and in 99.99% of those total hours my scope was set to 2X. (Woods hunting).


Though I never use this gun, the balance, scope position, and 2.5x combined makes for a very fast handling little setup. If I lived somewhere where the shooting was normally close and fast at fleeting targets, this one would be a top contender. I can say that it is hell on jackrabbits in the tall sagebrush.

[RONK]

I sell firearms for a living,the QC issues that I've seen with the Marlin/Remington rifles seem to be limited to cosmetics,they ship a lot of rifles where the forend doesn't match the stock.The metal to wood fit also isn't the greatest but it also wasn't great the last few years before Marlin became part of Freedom Group.The current built Winchesters are beautiful,I'm sorry there not doing any Trappers.I've sold a bunch of BLRs over the years,no problems but guys aren't putting hundreds of rounds through them,there is one gunsmith that I know of that will do trigger work.Henrys are made here in New Jersey(hard to believe),Bayonne to be exact,I think I've read there building some in WI also(I could be wrong),solid guns.Personally I'd buy a used or new Marlin,though I'm keeping my eye out for a Winchester Wrangler or Trapper also.Buy the way,really nice lever actions you guys have.
Ronk

[ACP230]

I saw a picture of a Henry in .41 Magnum someone had recently bought.
It sported Made In Rice Lake, Wisconsin on the barrel.

[OlongJohnson]

Nyeti has some good points. A Marlin 1894 in .38/.357 flies right past even the "everything's an assault rifle" rules currently making their way around Sacramento. The extra barrel length gives a non-plus-P 125gr .38SPL the velocity of a good 124gr 9mm load. I think it would be interesting to take a smoothed-up one to a CA defensive carbine class and run courses of fire on the clock against 10-round "bullet button" ARs.

[OlongJohnson]

These guys have basically built a business around Marlins. Based on the latest ones they bought to build, they will no longer work on current production.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/ranger-point-precision/181873-recent-improvements-remlin-1894s-disqualify-them.html

[Ryan127]

When I started in LE in 2003 I worked for a small rural agency. My first patrol rifle was a Winchester 94 in 30-30 that was aquired from someone before I started. The PD had every item of evidence ever collected from the beginning of the department. we had no longguns and no money to get longguns. I worked the 11p-7a shift. Besides the one gas station near the interstate everything was closed by midnight and everyone was asleep (except those that wanted to steel Anhydrous). Anyway the 94 was the most suitable for the task as Patrol Rifle most were .22's or junk. I researched the case and completed the paperwork to have it disposed to us and got the Chief to approve it. I wasn't allowed to go to the Village meeting, but was told my proposal caused a stir. Anyway we started carrying that as a Patrol Rifle until I disposed enough other stuff to trade for 3 Bushmaster Patrolman Carbines ammo mags etc. I didn't know anything at that time and the options were not what they are now.

I moved on and after a few years the Chief called me and said that he got approval to sell the 94 and I jumped on it for $200 donation to the departments shop with a cop. I gave it to my dad for defense of my inheritance.

Currently I own a 336 in 30-30 and a Henry Big Boy in 44 mag which also shoots 44 Special. I need to get them out and shoot.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Kind of unorthodox but I have two 12 gauge levers here which I'll be testing tomorrow...these are the Adler A110s that made the news in Australia.

The 13" barreled edition is horribly appealing. Pics tomorrow if anyone is interested.

[deputyG23]

These guys have basically built a business around Marlins. Based on the latest ones they bought to build, they will no longer work on current production.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/ranger-point-precision/181873-recent-improvements-remlin-1894s-disqualify-them.html

Darn shame that this is happening. I have wanted a 94 Marlin forever, but can't bring myself to pay the price a real Marlin brings now. This just hardens my resolve to not buy anything from the Remlin/Cerebus conglomerate.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Sorry, I forgot about this thread.

Adler A110 shotguns, 13" and 20". TOTALLY fun. The 13" is a 4+1, the 20 a 7+1. Beats on your knuckles something fierce after a hundred rounds or two though...levers are not for high volume shooting.

http://imgur.com/nyj91oAl.jpg

http://imgur.com/t6QP16bl.jpg

http://imgur.com/oW4V6MHl.jpg

http://imgur.com/OxMRey7l.jpg

[Bigghoss]

^ I'll be in my bunk.

[1slow]

I want a modern Burgess Folding Shotgun.

[mrozowjj]

I shot a friend's lever gun in 30-30 and a different gun in 38/357 and it was kind of fantastic. The GF wants one. How much can I spend to get a good 38/357 with a smooth action?

[Bigghoss]

I shot a friend's lever gun in 30-30 and a different gun in 38/357 and it was kind of fantastic. The GF wants one. How much can I spend to get a good 38/357 with a smooth action?

Easiest way would be to buy a Henry or Rossi and find a tutorial for slicking up the action($500-600). Best way would be to find a Winchester '94 or a pre-2007 "JM" Marlin 1894.($600-800+)

[Maple Syrup Actual]

The Rossis are decent guns...I have one in 357 and it's on my "never sell" list.

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

[Kiniffy]

Will these be available in the states?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Will these be available in the states?
I...think so?

Sent from my SM-T217S using Tapatalk

[LOKNLOD]

Will these be available in the states?

Are you talking about the Rossis, immediately above, or the Adler shotguns, a few posts up?

[GJM]

I generally run the Garrett 420+P hard cast in my bear defense Guide Guns. Over the winter, I got a few boxes of the Federal Trophy Bonded 300 grain load to try. I have one Guide Gun zeroed for 300 grain factory, and figured the Trophy Bonded would be close. It turns out that the TB it shoots about 3-4 inches higher at 50 than the regular factory. It seems to be accurate and is pretty soft shooting compared to the Garrett ammo or even Brenneke slugs in the Benelli.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps7nrlx3sb.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps7nrlx3sb.jpeg.html)

[NEPAKevin]

Earlier in this thread, there was a discussion about takedown lever guns and IIRC, someone mentioned that it would be nice to have one in 45-70. Saw this article linked below in the last Guns America email and posted in case it is of interest.
Taylor’s & Co. .45-70 Ridge Runner Takedown Lever Gun (https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/taylors-co-45-70-ridge-runner-lever-gun/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20160606_BlogDigest_175&utm_campaign=/blog/taylors-co-45-70-ridge-runner-lever-gun/)


https://youtu.be/ie5Tbg4kSM0

[Little Creek]

Marlin "Limited" 16" non ported .44 magnum, topped with fixed 2.5X Weaver.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/IMG_0691_zpsaxjwwppd.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/IMG_0691_zpsaxjwwppd.jpg.html)

I also have one of these. I put a Leupold scout scope on it using an XS scope base and quick release rings. This a gun that is not for sale.

[Jeep]

I also have one of these. I put a Leupold scout scope on it using an XS scope base and quick release rings. This a gun that is not for sale.

Very nice. A .44 magnum lever gun is a very potent weapon--though I'm not sure how many rounds my again shoulders would want to fire.

[NEPAKevin]

My first deer rifle was a Marlin in 44 mag. Recoil was not an issue. Only problem I had was that when I fist started using the gun, I would load the magazine to capacity (ten? some ridiculous number of rounds) and the gun would jam up. Then one day, I had the revelation that I was hunting Bambi not Geronimo and only loaded a few rounds and all was good again.

[wvincent]

In my quest for a Marlin lever in 41 mag, I swung by one gun shops I frequent when on the road. To my surprise, I see a wichester 1895 grade 1 reproduction. I think the last run was 2011. It seems the previous owner of the shop had never put it out front. I have always wanted one , but they aren't very plentiful around here. It is brand new, in 30-40 Krag. After some haggling, we played let's make a deal and I was offered 900.00 out the door. I told him to hold it for the night and I would call him in the morning.
I plan on using this as my main ranch, pickup/saddle, shelter belt/slough hunting gun, it's gonna get used. I have kind of lost my objectivity here. Can anyone tell me how this isn't a good deal? I wanted the night to think about it, and I am having a hard time talking myself out of it.

[Malamute]

In my quest for a Marlin lever in 41 mag, I swung by one gun shops I frequent when on the road. To my surprise, I see a wichester 1895 grade 1 reproduction. I think the last run was 2011. It seems the previous owner of the shop had never put it out front. I have always wanted one , but they aren't very plentiful around here. It is brand new, in 30-40 Krag. After some haggling, we played let's make a deal and I was offered 900.00 out the door. I told him to hold it for the night and I would call him in the morning.
I plan on using this as my main ranch, pickup/saddle, shelter belt/slough hunting gun, it's gonna get used. I have kind of lost my objectivity here. Can anyone tell me how this isn't a good deal? I wanted the night to think about it, and I am having a hard time talking myself out of it.

Sounds like a winner to me. With a decent receiver sight and sling, youd be good to go for about anything short of large bears. With some 220 gr loads you could probably make decent dents in large bears.

(large bears in this context not including coastal Alaskan bears)

[Kiniffy]

Kind of unorthodox but I have two 12 gauge levers here which I'll be testing tomorrow...these are the Adler A110s that made the news in Australia.

The 13" barreled edition is horribly appealing. Pics tomorrow if anyone is interested.

Any word of these coming to America? Tried to contact Turkey, got refered to an importer in Australia

[wvincent]

Sounds like a winner to me. With a decent receiver sight and sling, youd be good to go for about anything short of large bears. With some 220 gr loads you could probably make decent dents in large bears.

(large bears in this context not including coastal Alaskan bears)

Still cant talk myself out of it, (probably doesn't help I ordered my Lyman sight last night).

One of these chambered in "Big Medicine" .405 WCF, now would that work on the coastal bears?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Any word of these coming to America? Tried to contact Turkey, got refered to an importer in Australia
No idea; USA import laws always mystify me.

It's a sporting shotgun; shouldn't that be allowable?

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[That Guy]

There are some awesome pictures in this thread! Thank you guys.

I've always wanted a lever-action rifle. Something handy and compact, maybe a .44 or .45... Never did figure out what to put on the permit application though. :P

[minengr]

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/minengr/IMAG0131.jpg (http://s107.photobucket.com/user/minengr/media/IMAG0131.jpg.html)
l-r
.45 Colt EMF 1892 copy, "custom" scout scoop mount, in the process of restocking it (for several years now)
.38/.357 Win 94 trapper
30/30 Win 94 1970's
30/30 win 94 1920's
32 Win Spl Win 94 1940's
45/70 Marlin 1895, don't remember everything I've swapped out

[Bigghoss]

Was out and about today looking at guns. Saw some beautiful levers, even saw a Wincester 1895 and a BLR Scout. However in light of recent events I'm trying to focus on things evil and black. Get my panic buying done early. :)

[Bigghoss]

Saw a JM Marlin 1894 in .41 magnum on armslist listed in Denver. Figured someone here would be interested.

[dbateman]

Have any of you guys had anything to do with these guys ?

http://www.bighornarmory.com/

I've been eyeing off their blued 454 guns for a while.

[David S.]

Midwest Industries. MLOK for Marlin. Saw it on their Facebook but I don't see it on their website.
21998

[SecondsCount]

Midwest Industries. MLOK for Marlin. Saw it on their Facebook but I don't see it on their website.


That looks nice :cool:

[JHC]

My wish for SHOT 2018 is an 1894 .44 mag in this format with a 16" or 18" barrel. .45-70 is too strong a sauce for my tastes and application.

21999

Was there a 1894 like that previously?

[Malamute]

Very nice. A .44 magnum lever gun is a very potent weapon--though I'm not sure how many rounds my again shoulders would want to fire.

I loaded some Hornady 200 gr XTPs with 10 grs Unique, I was intending for at or a bit over original 44-40 velocity in a carbine (1325 fps or so is what original black powder loads do if I recall). On another forum, someone did a quickload calculation and 10 grs Unique came in at 1500 fps in a 20" barrel, which wasnt that far out of my idea of a mild load that would expand the bullets reliably. they are quite mild to shoot, and not much muzzle blast. Very nice on my bum shoulder. Havent tried any in a revolver yet, but shouldnt be too bad for blast or recoil.


Still cant talk myself out of it, (probably doesn't help I ordered my Lyman sight last night).

One of these chambered in "Big Medicine" .405 WCF, now would that work on the coastal bears?

It may seem a bit light by todays standards, but I believe worked fairly well back in the day. Not many bullet makers doing 405 bullets, but a premium jacketed bullet would probably work.

[Malamute]

Have any of you guys had anything to do with these guys ?

http://www.bighornarmory.com/

I've been eyeing off their blued 454 guns for a while.

I havent heard of any negative reports so far. Several guys on the leverguns forum have them and like them.

[fatdog]

...Was there a 1894 like that previously?

I owned Winchester made 94's in .357 and .45LC in the late 80's and early 90's and both were an absolute POS. The .357 variant went back to the New Haven factory 3 times and was never right. The '94 design was for a longer OAL cartridge (e.g. the 30-30) whereas the '92 design was still specifically for pistol cartridges but just as strong as a '94 by using the new rising lugs locking mechanism (from the 1886) that replaced the toggle levers of the '66/73 clan. I currently have Rossi's 92 clone in both .357 and .44 magnum, both stainless 16", and they at least run reliably for me. Getting some of the stevesgunz parts helped quite a bit.

[JHC]

I owned Winchester made 94's in .357 and .45LC in the late 80's and early 90's and both were an absolute POS. The .357 variant went back to the New Haven factory 3 times and was never right. The '94 design was for a longer OAL cartridge (e.g. the 30-30) whereas the '92 design was still specifically for pistol cartridges but just as strong as a '94 by using the new rising lugs locking mechanism (from the 1886) that replaced the toggle levers of the '66/73 clan. I currently have Rossi's 92 clone in both .357 and .44 magnum, both stainless 16", and they at least run reliably for me. Getting some of the stevesgunz parts helped quite a bit.

That's been my suspicion about Win 94s in pistol calibers. I was meaning a Marlin 1894 set up like it's big brother pictured

[fatdog]

..I was meaning a Marlin 1894 set up like it's big brother pictured

Sorry!

They did make a Marlin '94 in .44 magnum 20" and a friend has one, but never saw a stainless one or that shorter barrel....that would indeed be a nice gun in that config.

[Malamute]

That's been my suspicion about Win 94s in pistol calibers. I was meaning a Marlin 1894 set up like it's big brother pictured

I suspected you meant a Marlin.

Ive heard a number of people that had problems with the pistol caliber Winchester 94s, but some had OK experiences. Id prefer to stick with the 92 type in the Winchester type actions. The 30-30s seem to run about forever with little care so long as one doesnt dry fire them.

I had one or two of the Marlin 336s in 44 mag, they were finicky about what they would feed. They had a weird spring loaded widget on the carrier intended to make the shell rise level when feeding. It looked cheap and flimsy. Another case of trying to make a action designed for longer cartridges with with short ones, and not really working out that well. Again, some had OK results with them. I chose to stick with actions and loads designed for them.

[JHC]

Sorry!

They did make a Marlin '94 in .44 magnum 20" and a friend has one, but never saw a stainless one or that shorter barrel....that would indeed be a nice gun in that config.

Lots of them and still do. But I'm digging the SS, laminated stock with pistol grip and big loop. Plus the OEM rail.

We have a standard blued one in .44. It's my older son's now actually. Apparently customized nicely by prior owner with a slick action and cut to 18" which is unusual.

[Lester Polfus]

It was in the 2011 catalog: https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/68607133/Marlin-Catalog-2011

1894SBL sku: 70432

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171129/a61acb8d735b0af3399dae4d80ac936b.jpeg

I'm pretty sure none of those shipped. If there are any in the wild, they would truly command scalpers prices. Even the run of the mill, stainless .357 lever guns are going for stupid prices right now.

[LOKNLOD]

I am perpetually eyeballing this config: https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895gsbl

[Lester Polfus]

I am perpetually eyeballing this config: https://www.marlinfirearms.com/lever-action/model-1895-big-bore/model-1895gsbl

Me too. While not as attractive as my 30 year old walnut and blued steel 335, that combination would be much more practical to haul around during our November elk season when it rains up to three inches in a day.

[masternave]

While I want a lever gun for nostalgia and pseudo-history, a evil-grinning part of me loves that this now exists. People talk about truck guns... but for those of us who routinely knock off predators on their property, that seems like a really sensible and handy little tool.

22002

[source (https://www.facebook.com/Midwest-Industries-Inc-173381586063668/)]

[OlongJohnson]

My wish for SHOT 2018 is an 1894 .44 mag in this format with a 16" or 18" barrel. .45-70 is too strong a sauce for my tastes and application.

21999

Was there a 1894 like that previously?

I handled one of these in a local shop a few months back. Surprisingly smooth action, but it should be for the price. I think one of the employees had ordered it for himself.

https://www.chiappafirearms.com/p/id/95/product/1892-Lever-Action-Alaskan-Takedown-Rifle.php

I normally think of Chiappa as a source of affordably-priced replicas, but this was a nice rifle.


Lately, I've been thinking about a clean sheet design optimized for 9mm that would feed from Glock mags; a Glock 26 ten-rounder would tuck up all neat and tidy, although one could always stuff in a 33-rounder if that was legal. Ten rounds would be neat in a place like CA.

[Lester Polfus]

Me too. While not as attractive as my 30 year old walnut and blued steel 335, that combination would be much more practical to haul around during our November elk season when it rains up to three inches in a day.

That should have been "336." The 335 is a guitar. Not only is it bad in the rain, it sucks at killing elk.

[El Cid]

While I want a lever gun for nostalgia and pseudo-history, a evil-grinning part of me loves that this now exists. People talk about truck guns... but for those of us who routinely knock off predators on their property, that seems like a really sensible and handy little tool.

22002

[source (https://www.facebook.com/Midwest-Industries-Inc-173381586063668/)]

Just saw this at JTT! Love the concept!

http://jerkingthetrigger.com/2017/11/28/midwest-industries-marlin-lever-action-rail/

[Totem Polar]

The 335 is a guitar. Not only is it bad in the rain, it sucks at killing elk.

How would it do at killing fascists?

[willie]

Older Marlins in nice condition sell for less than a new Henry. I've been up and down the lever action route and have played with them for decades. I have two Henry's, a .44 mag and .357 mag. The blue steel version costs less and is much lighter than the "golden" version. Both have been back to the mother ship and repaired without question--100% on their dime.

My recommendation: get an older Marlin 336 in 30-30 Win. caliber. It's light, handy, and trouble free. Why 30-30? I say if you're buying a rifle, get one in a rifle caliber. I bought the above handgun calibers because of my severe arthritis and love of tinkering with cast bullets. I roll tin cans, shoot stumps and dirt clods and an occasional feral pig.

[Malamute]

30-30s do quite well with cast bullets also. From round balls at 22 power levels, to 110-120 gr cast at 32-20 power levels, both being great for small game or pests, on up to regular jacketed stuff. Last i looked at walmart, there was one 30-30 factory load for less then $14/box, the others in the $15 range. I rarely buy factory ammo, but couldnt justify buying brass and the other components to load more when it was only slightly more to buy factory.

Still, nothing wrong with pistol calibers for closer range and fun shooting.

[Lester Polfus]

How would it do at killing fascists?

Big enough Marshall amp, it'll get 'er done, but a Les Paul is really the right tool for that.

[JHC]

It was in the 2011 catalog: https://www.scribd.com/mobile/document/68607133/Marlin-Catalog-2011

1894SBL sku: 70432

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171129/a61acb8d735b0af3399dae4d80ac936b.jpeg

Yes, that right there.

I'm leery of beating up my 16" Win 94 up hunting in rain. Otherwise the SS and lam stock wouldn't be so attractive. Maybe all this cinematic attention the 45-70 Guide Gun has seen will move them on this Guide Gun lite.

[hufnagel]

Those Marlins' sure got some some pretty wood on on them.

[Bigghoss]

.44 mag has slightly less appeal to me now that I've decided to use my autos as woods pistols but those pics sure got me interested. At the very least one of those MI fore ends on a 336 youth would make a dandy camp gun even though ditching the wood gives up the politically correct lever gun appeal.

[Lester Polfus]

.44 mag has slightly less appeal to me now that I've decided to use my autos as woods pistols but those pics sure got me interested. At the very least one of those MI fore ends on a 336 youth would make a dandy camp gun even though ditching the wood gives up the politically correct lever gun appeal.

The only real reason I can see to put an Mlok fore end on a Marlin lever gun is to facilitate mounting of a light. That's a very reasonable thing to want to do, as both bears and assholes tend to be a problem at night.

The thing is, I think there are plenty of ways to mount a light without going full blown tactical forend. One option is to install a XS scout rail, then use an angled mount for the light. Hill People Gear, and I believe either Wild West Guns or Grizzly Customs, make mounts for lever gun magazine tubes.

Lever actions are very much a passion of the gun kind of thing for me. If I'm going to tote around a rifle with a full blown, M-Lok fore end, I'll just start toting an Ar-15 around.

[JHC]

The only real reason I can see to put an Mlok fore end on a Marlin lever gun is to facilitate mounting of a light. That's a very reasonable thing to want to do, as both bears and assholes tend to be a problem at night.

The thing is, I think there are plenty of ways to mount a light without going full blown tactical forend. One option is to install a XS scout rail, then use an angled mount for the light. Hill People Gear, and I believe either Wild West Guns or Grizzly Customs, make mounts for lever gun magazine tubes.

Lever actions are very much a passion of the gun kind of thing for me. If I'm going to tote around a rifle with a full blown, M-Lok fore end, I'll just start toting an Ar-15 around.

I'm mildly curious if the M-Lok does any good for management of heat. I never ran my son's .45-70 Cowboy for any rapid fire or volume but I've been amazed how fast a .30-30 gets ridiculously hot running one full magazine load through it like John Wayne.

[Bigghoss]

The only real reason I can see to put an Mlok fore end on a Marlin lever gun is to facilitate mounting of a light. That's a very reasonable thing to want to do, as both bears and assholes tend to be a problem at night.

The thing is, I think there are plenty of ways to mount a light without going full blown tactical forend. One option is to install a XS scout rail, then use an angled mount for the light. Hill People Gear, and I believe either Wild West Guns or Grizzly Customs, make mounts for lever gun magazine tubes.

Lever actions are very much a passion of the gun kind of thing for me. If I'm going to tote around a rifle with a full blown, M-Lok fore end, I'll just start toting an Ar-15 around.

The only downside to that is having to place your hand farther back on the gun to activate the light, unless there's a tape switch with a lead long enough. I'll also admit the juxtaposition of a modern Mlok fore end on a lever action rifle appeals to me a bit. It would also allow someone to mount an AFG if that's their thing. The Magpul M-LOK AFG or a handstop would offer the same benefits as they do on any other rifle. Seems like a fun thing just for shits and giggles.

[Wheeler]

The only downside to that is having to place your hand farther back on the gun to activate the light, unless there's a tape switch with a lead long enough. I'll also admit the juxtaposition of a modern Mlok fore end on a lever action rifle appeals to me a bit. It would also allow someone to mount an AFG if that's their thing. The Magpul M-LOK AFG or a handstop would offer the same benefits as they do on any other rifle. Seems like a fun thing just for shits and giggles.



Seems to me having the support hand way forward like that would make it harder to run the lever.

[Bigghoss]

Maybe. I haven't had the chance to try to run my 336 hard. I would think having a buttpad with the right amount of grip and holding it tight in your shoulder (combined with slicking up the action to reduce the force needed to work the lever) should negate that but I don't have personal experience on the matter.

[Wheeler]

Maybe. I haven't had the chance to try to run my 336 hard. I would think having a buttpad with the right amount of grip and holding it tight in your shoulder (combined with slicking up the action to reduce the force needed to work the lever) should negate that but I don't have personal experience on the matter.

I tried it in Lee Weems’ Social Levergun class. I went back to the tried and true method rather quickly.

[jandbj]

Lately, I've been thinking about a clean sheet design optimized for 9mm that would feed from Glock mags; a Glock 26 ten-rounder would tuck up all neat and tidy, although one could always stuff in a 33-rounder if that was legal. Ten rounds would be neat in a place like CA.

Neat idea, but wouldn't the position of the mag interfere with operating the lever?

[Wheeler]

Neat idea, but wouldn't the position of the mag interfere with operating the lever?

It all depends on how much the lever has to move to cycle 9mm cartridges and empty cases.

[Malamute]

The only downside to that is having to place your hand farther back on the gun to activate the light, unless there's a tape switch with a lead long enough. I'll also admit the juxtaposition of a modern Mlok fore end on a lever action rifle appeals to me a bit. It would also allow someone to mount an AFG if that's their thing. The Magpul M-LOK AFG or a handstop would offer the same benefits as they do on any other rifle. Seems like a fun thing just for shits and giggles.


Seems to me having the support hand way forward like that would make it harder to run the lever.


I tried it in Lee Weems’ Social Levergun class. I went back to the tried and true method rather quickly.

OK, pretend I just woke up and am not following the line of thought. What about hand position, lights and operating the lever? I tend to run mine with my left hand as far forward on the for end as it will go, usually stopped by the sling mount in the band or fore end cap. My hand is in pretty much the same position operating the light on the Browning 92 whether using the light or not.

Back to mounting a light, just screwing a small section of rail or a single scope base to the front left side of the factory fore end like GJM does pretty well solves the light issue if one is willing to do so. I opted for a mount silver soldered on the magazine tube, so the gun was a snag free as possible when the light was off of it.

[Dropkick]

The thing is, I think there are plenty of ways to mount a light without going full blown tactical forend. One option is to install a XS scout rail, then use an angled mount for the light. Hill People Gear, and I believe either Wild West Guns or Grizzly Customs, make mounts for lever gun magazine tubes.

As you mentioned there are a couple options for lever guns, but, at least to me, they are half solutions, or custom solutions that mean $$ and time. But a major manufacture producing something for lever guns is a win in and of itself.

As for MI's MLOK rail. I wouldn't use it for hunting, my hands would probably freeze to it in Upstate NY winters. But for the rest of the year, I could see it being a multi-state friendly rifle that I could easily add a white light to.

[jandbj]

I believe Bigghoss comment was related to a prior comment about mounting the light angled off of an XS scout scope mount. I'm lost on the other two.

My Rossi 92 is crying out to see the silver soldered mount you use Malamute.

[SMD]

I'm mildly curious if the M-Lok does any good for management of heat. I never ran my son's .45-70 Cowboy for any rapid fire or volume but I've been amazed how fast a .30-30 gets ridiculously hot running one full magazine load through it like John Wayne.

I'm curious about this, too. John Farnam in his Quips reports seeing Winchester 1894s cook off.

The stock also looks like it may protect the magazine tube over more of its length.

[Wheeler]

OK, pretend I just woke up and am not following the line of thought. What about hand position, lights and operating the lever? I tend to run mine with my left hand as far forward on the for end as it will go, usually stopped by the sling mount in the band or fore end cap. My hand is in pretty much the same position operating the light on the Browning 92 whether using the light or not.

Back to mounting a light, just screwing a small section of rail or a single scope base to the front left side of the factory fore end like GJM does pretty well solves the light issue if one is willing to do so. I opted for a mount silver soldered on the magazine tube, so the gun was a snag free as possible when the light was off of it.

I inferred from the previous statements that it was a disadvantage to have the support hand further back as opposed to the current trend of having the support hand out further towards the muzzle. In my experience that doesn’t work well with a lever action. Were I to add a light to one of my lever actions I’d move it back towards where ever I position my support hand.

I hope that clears it up.

[Malamute]

I believe Bigghoss comment was related to a prior comment about mounting the light angled off of an XS scout scope mount. I'm lost on the other two.

My Rossi 92 is crying out to see the silver soldered mount you use Malamute.

I posted pics before, they may have disappeared in the photobucket train wreck. I found them though.

I wanted something that was as unobtrusive as possible when the light was off the gun. I opted for a Ruger ring base. They make individual base sets for their No1 Varmint I believe. I had a gunsmith with a mill and sense of humor machine the base of one to fit the tube diameter, and be as tight to the tube as reasonable (short in height off the tube). I also cut one end off the base, it had two screw holes. A 1" Ruger scope ring fits a Surefire 6P fairly well, (needs a slight shim at this point). It sits where I can hit the tail button with my left thumb in a natural shooting position. It lights up the front sight where the light is, I think thats OK after using it a while.

[Malamute]

I inferred from the previous statements that it was a disadvantage to have the support hand further back as opposed to the current trend of having the support hand out further towards the muzzle. In my experience that doesn’t work well with a lever action. Were I to add a light to one of my lever actions I’d move it back towards where ever I position my support hand.

I hope that clears it up.

Yes, i think i get it now. I was actually just waking up when i read that. The extra-long front on the Midwest levergun handguard is something I might be inclined to trim back if I had one, at least leave one spot forward to attach a light, but I never have held long guns with the far forward grip method.

Back to light mounts, there was a discussion a couple months ago, I didnt report back that the guy that makes the AK light mounts didnt think it would work to thin one down to the required thinness to work on a lever gun. I'm going to experiment at some point with using two of the magazine band clamps for sling mounts, and s small piece of rail or scope base attached to them. Somewhat kludgey, but simple to do at home. Trying to figure something out for another of my guns, and that JLW could try without gunsmithing work needing to be done.

[Bigghoss]

I have an XS rail on my 336w and was going to do like most folks and run a light in a cantilever mount off it. I do see it as a disadvantage for me to have my support hand that far back but as I said, I've not actually played with mine much. I'm also 6'2" tall and while that's not Andre the Giant territory or anything it's more comfortable for me to stretch out farther than the XS rail setup typically allows.

[newyork]

What is a good quality side loading 357, 44 or 30-30 lever around 16” nowadays that isn’t a fortune? I’ve heard Marlin is horrendous now and it looks like Winchester is very expensive.

[jeep45238]

What is a good quality side loading 357, 44 or 30-30 lever around 16” nowadays that isn’t a fortune? I’ve heard Marlin is horrendous now and it looks like Winchester is very expensive.

Also interested in the 357 option.

[fatdog]

I am only a sample of one, but my Rossi '92 16" stainless has performed well. Some have reported problems with shorter .38 special cases, but my primary use is for the .357 cartridge and if I need a light load I will go with something "cowboy" level in a .357 case and OAL range. I replaced the high visibility plastic follower with a polished steel version and removed the lock and replaced it with the plug from Stevesgunz and that is all. I have at least 1K rounds down range in the last 4 years and it is something I trust. But like I said, sample of one and I don't keep up with reports on these Rossi's. Mine mostly gets loaded with the 140gr Hornady Lever Evolution JHP bullets.

If I were going to scope it or use a red dot, I would consider other designs, my use is iron sights.

My competition gun is an Uberti 1873 in .357, but that is expensive (3X the cost), certainly not stainless and not something I treat as roughly as the Rossi.

[Bigghoss]

What is a good quality side loading 357, 44 or 30-30 lever around 16” nowadays that isn’t a fortune? I’ve heard Marlin is horrendous now and it looks like Winchester is very expensive.

If you can inspect it first a Marlin 336 youth is under $500 and they have their issues mainly worked out. I have a pre-Remington 336 and it's not exactly a shining example of fit and finish and as I understand it the current "Remlins" are about on par with late JM stamped guns. The Rossi also has a good reputation. I haven't heard much about the Mossberg 464 but they also offer a 16" barreled .30-30 and they have a tang safety like their shotguns which I think is a plus.

[Malamute]

What is a good quality side loading 357, 44 or 30-30 lever around 16” nowadays that isn’t a fortune? I’ve heard Marlin is horrendous now and it looks like Winchester is very expensive.

I was watching angle eject Winchester 94s a while back, one could get into a pretty clean example, pre-crossbolt, for about $400. Gunbroker has tons of them (winchester 94s of all descriptions). I tend to search, put a number of watch, and see where they go to get a feel for whats happening. Once I get an idea, I may bid if thats my objective. Many roll over with no bids. I like the old gunbroker format, and click the price name and it shows them in ascending price as they go down the page. The first batch is featured sellers, then it drops back to regular ones, with a re-set of the price scale. Once in a while you see some that are priced decently for buy now. If you dont want to wait and dont want to deal with bidding, I just do the buy now if its not crazy and not a huge discrepancy between start or bids and the buy now. I used to be more of a purist, but am warming up the the rebounding hammer setup, its instantly and automatically safe after firing or lowering the hammer. Less to go wrong.

Id not be bothered by a 92 type or top eject 94 with a red dot mounted on a base on the front receiver ring or barrel, or one of the rails that mount on top of the barrel and one side screw.

http://mod94scoperail.com/testimonials.html

[Tennessee Jed]

I am also just a sample of one, but I am very pleased with my Rossi 16" 357 magnum. I've put somewhere around 600 - 700 rounds of 357 mag 158 jhp handloads and factory ammo through this one with no malfunctions yet. Rossi has a scope mount that replaces the rear sight, and the mount was perfect for a cheap little TRS-25 red dot. It's very light, very reliable, pretty accurate, and I'm not concerned about any scratches or dings that it will eventually accumulate.

I have since replaced by hillbilly flashlight set up with a rail that mounts to the load tube. Still not sold on that rail, though. Might go back to the hillbilly set up.

22043

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Put me down as another happy Rossi .357 dude. I have had it for awhile, and it’s my Son and I’s favorite fun gun.

I used it in a Chuck Haggard class at PEP4 and it did a number on the ballistic gelatin block with both .38 and .357. Chuck and I are both convinced of their utility. With .38 WC’s they are very quiet...and with 125 grain .357’s you get mild AK ballistics on the gel and steel plates.


civiliandefender.com

[Lester Polfus]

Marlin went through a rough patch a while back, and the internet is never going to forget it. I just did an exhaustive search of Marlin leverguns at all the gun stores within a reasonable driving distance. All of the new Marlin's I looked at looked decent. I didn't see any crooked barrels, clearly sloppy work or similar issues like they were shoving out the door several years ago. They operated relatively smoothly for new guns, and had serviceable triggers. Wood to metal fit was reasonable, on par with guns they've made in the past. Blueing and polishing was decent. My biggest complaint about new Marlins is I don't like the larger, checkered forestocks and buttstocks they are putting on the guns now.

You can buy a brand new 336W at The Wal-Mart right now for $345. That's one hell of a bargain. It's got a matte finish and the wood isn't walnut, but if you want a functional rifle capable of killing assholes and most of the game animals in North America, you get alot for your money.

I wound up buying a 1988 Marlin 336CS because it had a very nice trigger and the older, slimmer wood.

People wax about "JM Stamped" Marlin lever guns like they were bespoke rifles. They're not. They've always been a mass produced rifle that a working class guy could afford if he saved and worked a little overtime maybe. I could pick up any "classic era" Marlin and find something to nit pick about regarding wood to metal fit, and etc.

[willie]

Having owned several of the old Marlins I agree that they were just another mass produced rifle. At the same time that Remington was screwing up Marlins, they were also turning out defective 870s and other mainstays of their line. Hopefully, Remington is improving quality control across the board. However, within the last year they shipped a batch of Marlin 45-70s with defective(missing in some places)rifling. I saw this myself at a retail store. Marlin lever rifles are simple devices; however, Remington repeatedly botched the manufacture of this design. Perhaps they are doing better now. In all fairness I must say that two out of two of my new Henry lever guns were screwed up from the get go and had to go back. So, we all take our chances.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I bought a Guide Gun recently and it’s GTG. And I got a Henry Big Boy All Weather in 45-70, and it won’t group anywhere near the center of the POA. Even with the sight moved nearly out of the dovetail. I think something is wrong with it and it needs to go back to get fixed.


civiliandefender.com

[willie]

Sherman, if you email Henry's owner, give serial number, and explain, you will receive instructions on shipping it back on their dime. Or, ask the dealer to handle it. Either way it's at H's expense.

[Dave Williams]

http://www.guns.com/2017/11/30/midwest-industries-m-lok-lever-action/

Have you guys seen this? Handy way of mounting a light to a lever gun.

[Malamute]

http://www.guns.com/2017/11/30/midwest-industries-m-lok-lever-action/

Have you guys seen this? Handy way of mounting a light to a lever gun.

Yes, post No 327. :)

[dbateman]

Owned a few pistol cal Win 94s they always seemed to work pretty well for me.
Had a pre AE 357 that I sold to some guy that just had to have it, he was offering twice what it cost so I sold it.
Big mistake been looking for another for a while.



I havent heard of any negative reports so far. Several guys on the leverguns forum have them and like them.

I approached them about building me a 45 Colt.
I have never seen one in the wild, man they look good, currently talking myself into ordering one.
22049

Dug this one out of the back of the safe the other day.
45 Colt Trapper.

[ralph]

Fellas, I need a little help here, I have a couple lever guns, Win mod 94 trapper in .44mag, and a repro Win mod 1886 in 45-70, (I'd take it out more often, but the thing weighs more than my M1 Garand).Anyway, I got wanting a .22 lever gun and ordered a Browning BL -22 micro midas, thinking it would be a nice match for my .44 trapper, but now I'm reading the specs a little more closely, and I'm seeing that this rifle has a 12" length of pull, and now I'm not sure if it'll be too short for me or not (I'm 5'8). Do any of you have any experiences with the micro version of the bl-22? I ordered it from CDNN on Saturday, about noon, and I don't think they've processed the order yet, so, I think I still have time to change my order, if I call them first thing Monday.. On the other hand, if this thing fits me it just might be a neat little rifle to have..I just don't know what to do..I had a bl-22, grade ll about 30yrs ago, and it was a sweetheart.. I appreciate any help you could offer..

[Wheeler]

Fellas, I need a little help here, I have a couple lever guns, Win mod 94 trapper in .44mag, and a repro Win mod 1886 in 45-70, (I'd take it out more often, but the thing weighs more than my M1 Garand).Anyway, I got wanting a .22 lever gun and ordered a Browning BL -22 micro midas, thinking it would be a nice match for my .44 trapper, but now I'm reading the specs a little more closely, and I'm seeing that this rifle has a 12" length of pull, and now I'm not sure if it'll be too short for me or not (I'm 5'8). Do any of you have any experiences with the micro version of the bl-22? I ordered it from CDNN on Saturday, about noon, and I don't think they've processed the order yet, so, I think I still have time to change my order, if I call them first thing Monday.. On the other hand, if this thing fits me it just might be a neat little rifle to have..I just don't know what to do..I had a bl-22, grade ll about 30yrs ago, and it was a sweetheart.. I appreciate any help you could offer..

Have you measured your LoP? That would go a long way towards answering your own question. Alternatively you could measure the LoP of a rifle that you know fits you well.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I’m 6’4” and I CAN use a 15” LOP, although I prefer to use a 12” LOP. I keep all out long guns on the shorter end of the LOP so that they can be used by everyone in the family.


civiliandefender.com

[ralph]

Have you measured your LoP? That would go a long way towards answering your own question. Alternatively you could measure the LoP of a rifle that you know fits you well.

Well, I did check one of my AR's, I adjusted the stock for a 12"LOP, I did'nt have any problem using the scope, tried this with another AR, and again, did'nt have a problem using the irons, although I think a 13" lop would be better, I could use a 12" LOP, it was'nt uncomfortable..

[Bigghoss]

You could always try a slip on recoil pad for an extra inch of so.

[jeep45238]

For bagging deer under 150 yards (under 75 is more likely) with a straight walled cartridge, what model would people recommend? Cartridge would likely be .357 mag for handgun compatibility/logistics, but open to other options if there are better ones suited for this action type.

Currently thinking of a Winchester 92 or a Marlin 1894c in .357 mag

[JPedersen]

For bagging deer under 150 yards (under 75 is more likely) with a straight walled cartridge, what model would people recommend? Cartridge would likely be .357 mag for handgun compatibility/logistics, but open to other options if there are better ones suited for this action type.

Currently thinking of a Winchester 92 or a Marlin 1894c in .357 mag

I second this question - keeping an eye on everyone's input.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Chiappa, Taylor & Co, or a GOOD Rossi 1892 is my vote.


civiliandefender.com

[Wheeler]

For bagging deer under 150 yards (under 75 is more likely) with a straight walled cartridge, what model would people recommend? Cartridge would likely be .357 mag for handgun compatibility/logistics, but open to other options if there are better ones suited for this action type.

Currently thinking of a Winchester 92 or a Marlin 1894c in .357 mag

I'm partial the the Winchester 94 AE's but the Marlin 1894 is a good choice as well. I don't have any direct experience with the 92's. I'm also partial to the .357 Mag. If you handload you can crank up some serious loads that will bump the bottom range of .30/30 ballistics.

[jandbj]

For bagging deer under 150 yards (under 75 is more likely) with a straight walled cartridge, what model would people recommend? Cartridge would likely be .357 mag for handgun compatibility/logistics, but open to other options if there are better ones suited for this action type.

Currently thinking of a Winchester 92 or a Marlin 1894c in .357 mag

Interesting load data here for the .357 in a Marlin 1894... http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=2201.0

[Lester Polfus]

I'm partial the the Winchester 94 AE's but the Marlin 1894 is a good choice as well. I don't have any direct experience with the 92's. I'm also partial to the .357 Mag. If you handload you can crank up some serious loads that will bump the bottom range of .30/30 ballistics.

If I lived back east, or otherwise was only worried about deer or black bear as the top end of animals I was going to shoot, I'd give serious thoughts to just standardizing on .357 revolvers and lever guns. Between wadcutters and 180 WFN bullets, you'd be able to deal with just about anything.

[JHC]

Typically, how do Marlin 1894s in .44 magnum fair with the longer 300 grain plus wide meplat cast loads? I vaguely recall hearing of overall length issues.

Which wouldn't be a deal breaker. I doubt there is a critter in North America that couldn't be handily dropped with the 300 grain XTP loading.

I'd sure like to see Hornady expand this line of ammo into some calibers not associated with African game. Like .30-30, .44, .357 and heck, service pistols. A specialty item just like it is in .375 H&H. https://www.hornady.com/ammunition/dangerous-game-series#!/#product-line

[jeep45238]

If I lived back east, or otherwise was only worried about deer or black bear as the top end of animals I was going to shoot, I'd give serious thoughts to just standardizing on .357 revolvers and lever guns. Between wadcutters and 180 WFN bullets, you'd be able to deal with just about anything.

For here in Ohio, with non-people tasks, I’m starting to agree with one caveat- 45-70, 45 colt, and 44mag levers can be bad for far cheaper than .357 mag.

For our deer rifles we’re limited to straight walled cartridges, .35cal on up, and that’s just recently added.

For people purposes I’ll stick with 9mm Luger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ralph]

Have you measured your LoP? That would go a long way towards answering your own question. Alternatively you could measure the LoP of a rifle that you know fits you well.

I did measure my LOP, after reading up on the subject. Luckily, I got ahold of CDNN, first thing on Monday, and switched my order to a grade 1 bl-22, instead of the micro midas, it showed up at my LGS today, it's a sweetheart, and fits me pretty well, I had a grade 2, bl-22 about 35 yrs ago..got hard up for cash, and sold it, I've regretted it ever since.. Took me awhile but I finally got another one..And unlike the Browning BAR-22 I have, parts are easily found for bl-22's.

[HCM]

For here in Ohio, with non-people tasks, I’m starting to agree with one caveat- 45-70, 45 colt, and 44mag levers can be bad for far cheaper than .357 mag.

For our deer rifles we’re limited to straight walled cartridges, .35cal on up, and that’s just recently added.

For people purposes I’ll stick with 9mm Luger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The guns may be cheaper, but the ammo certainly isn’t. Hence the popularity of the 357.

[jeep45238]

The guns may be cheaper, but the ammo certainly isn’t. Hence the popularity of the 357.

Touché . Kind of like 9vs40 leo trade ins of today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ralph]

The guns may be cheaper, but the ammo certainly isn’t. Hence the popularity of the 357.

If you reload for both .357, and .44mag, the ammo costs really,really go down. In my case, I reload for both calibers. So, the above argument really dosen't hold water for me...

[bofe954]

How bad are the Winchester 45-70 1886's with no recoil pads to shoot?

[ralph]

How bad are the Winchester 45-70 1886's with no recoil pads to shoot?

I have one with the cresent buttplate they look cool, but aren't alot of fun to shoot without some sort of padding. I have a recoil pad that I slip on over my shoulder and it helps alot.

[Malamute]

How bad are the Winchester 45-70 1886's with no recoil pads to shoot?

Which variation? If the Extra-light with shotgun butt and half magazine, they are great, the shotgun (flat) butt being the best style for shooting, if a model with crescent butt, I dont like them at all, but are somewhat tolerable for mild loads. I had the crescent chopped off a Browning 1886 rifle and a flat pad put on it, and would do the same on a current or recent Winchester, or trade the stock for a shotgun butt. The 1886 Browning carbines arent bad, with the carbine type slightly curved steel butt plate. Not sure if Winchester did any carbine butt models in recent versions of the 1886.

[bofe954]

There are two different types on CDNN right now.

[Malamute]

There are two different types on CDNN right now.

Looks like they both have crescent butts. If it were me, Id go for the short rifle rather than the too short "trapper". There were a couple of the 86 lightweights on gunbroker a short time ago, one or more were in the same general price range. I dont recall details of any reserves or buy now prices, was sort of doing a driveby after seeing the question about them earlier.

[OlongJohnson]

I swung by Ranger Point Precision this afternoon and suggested they make a direct mount adapter for an Aimpoint Micro on the Marlin 1894, kinda like the Aridus 1301 Tactical mount. The owner seemed not to have thought of that before, but acknowledged it could be a good product idea. If you would be interested in such a product, this might be a good time to call, email, or stop by if you're local.

[Rex G]

I have not subjected them to rough service, so do not know their potential for back-country use, but I have two Browning BLR rifles, chambered in .308 Winchester. One is the mid-Nineties Lightning configuration, which uses the still-current magazine, and the newer one is a Take-Down. If I can manage to source one of the Browning forward mounts, I would like to try a red-dot optic.

I really like the concept of the folding-hammer safety; the hammer is placed at half-cock, and the hammer spur is then rotated forward, so that it cannot contact the firing pin. The act of thumbing the hammer to full-cock unfolds the hammer, off-safe-ing with no additional motion required. I have not yet read of any failures of this folding hammer.

My “dream” lever rifle is a Winchester 1886 or Model 71. A large local dealer of collectible firearms seems to have a few of each in stock, much of the time, some in user-grade condition.

[OlongJohnson]

I have not subjected them to rough service, so do not know their potential for back-country use, but I have two Browning BLR rifles, chambered in .308 Winchester.

My “dream” lever rifle is a Winchester 1886 or Model 71. A large local dealer of collectible firearms seems to have a few of each in stock, much of the time, some in user-grade condition.

The worst bad thing I've heard about modern BLRs is the gear system can wear and strip out with hard use.

Collector's Firearms is always a fun field trip, but I don't expect to ever see anything there that's remotely close to market priced. My sense is that they have managed to cultivate a clientele with quite a bit more money than time - plenty of those people around Houston.

[Wheeler]

I have not subjected them to rough service, so do not know their potential for back-country use, but I have two Browning BLR rifles, chambered in .308 Winchester. One is the mid-Nineties Lightning configuration, which uses the still-current magazine, and the newer one is a Take-Down. If I can manage to source one of the Browning forward mounts, I would like to try a red-dot optic.

I really like the concept of the folding-hammer safety; the hammer is placed at half-cock, and the hammer spur is then rotated forward, so that it cannot contact the firing pin. The act of thumbing the hammer to full-cock unfolds the hammer, off-safe-ing with no additional motion required. I have not yet read of any failures of this folding hammer.

My “dream” lever rifle is a Winchester 1886 or Model 71. A large local dealer of collectible firearms seems to have a few of each in stock, much of the time, some in user-grade condition.

Tell me more about the newer TD model please. I have a '87 manufacture BLR in .308 that I have roughly 100 rounds through. I've been waffling on dropping the coin for either a TD in .308, a TD in .223 or another BLR in .358.

[Wheeler]

The worst bad thing I've heard about modern BLRs is the gear system can wear and strip out with hard use.

Collector's Firearms is always a fun field trip, but I don't expect to ever see anything there that's remotely close to market priced. My sense is that they have managed to cultivate a clientele with quite a bit more money than time - plenty of those people around Houston.

If you don't mind my asking, where does that information regarding the gears stripping come from? What determines hard use?

[OlongJohnson]

Just anecdotes I've seen around over the years. Would take some googling to dig them up.

[Malamute]

I havent heard of the rack and pinion gears stripping, but have heard they are a real bugger to take apart and out back together timed correctly. I believe it was a gunsmith that mentioned this. He didnt like working on them.

I had a friend who had a 308 BLR in the 80s. It locked up when he shot 7.62 nato ball type ammo in it, several times. When out hunting one time.

[Wheeler]

Just anecdotes I've seen around over the years. Would take some googling to dig them up.

Thanks. Like Malamute mentioned, I've heard they were a booger to work on and there were few gunsmiths that would tackle them. This is the first ever I've heard that they would strip out, not that I'm an SME on the BLR's.

[1slow]

In the 1970s I had a BLR in .243. It jumped time on the gear/lever engagement. I sent it to Browning. Browning said they fixed it, not so, it jumped time again, a local gunsmith fixed it and I sold it through the shop.
I NEVER want another one.

[Wheeler]

In the 1970s I had a BLR in .243. It jumped time on the gear/lever engagement. I sent it to Browning. Browning said they fixed it, not so, it jumped time again, a local gunsmith fixed it and I sold it through the shop.
I NEVER want another one.

That sucks that your only experience with a BLR was a bad one.

[1slow]

The way Browning brushed me off was as much a problem as the rifle. Other than used P35s, I never bought another Browning product. I have not thought about the why of that for 40+ years.

The BLR when it was running shot 3 shot groups at 100yards with 1 1/2" vertical dispersion X 7/8'' horizontal dispersion with factory ammo.

[Wheeler]

The way Browning brushed me off was as much a problem as the rifle. Other than used P35s, I never bought another Browning product. I have not thought about the why of that for 40+ years.

The BLR when it was running shot 3 shot groups at 100yards with 1 1/2" vertical dispersion X 7/8'' horizontal dispersion with factory ammo.

That's reasonable accuracy with any lever action.

[jeep45238]

Why run a lever if the same caliber is available in a bolt w/ removable mag? Usage is white tail deer hunting. Price point is similar for both.

Thinking of .357 side loaders vs the Ruger M77/357 with rotary mags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Why run a lever if the same caliber is available in a bolt w/ removable mag? Usage is white tail deer hunting. Price point is similar for both.

Thinking of .357 side loaders vs the Ruger M77/357 with rotary mags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One of the things I like about levers, is the lack of (removable) magazines. I have so many mags already, and I can’t ever just have a few spares, so I like the simplified parts catalog I have to keep.


civiliandefender.com

[OlongJohnson]

Why run a lever if the same caliber is available in a bolt w/ removable mag? Usage is white tail deer hunting. Price point is similar for both.

Thinking of .357 side loaders vs the Ruger M77/357 with rotary mags.

The Ruger 77/357 and 77/44 are basically a rimfire action adapted to shoot the pistol cartridges, so they aren't the beefy tanks that the rifle-cartridge rifles are. The primary bedding contact and recoil control is at the rear of the receiver, which can lead to issues with accuracy. They can be improved, but I don't think I've ever seen someone claim to get the accuracy results that people often claim for the centerfire rifles.

[Malamute]

Why run a lever if the same caliber is available in a bolt w/ removable mag? Usage is white tail deer hunting. Price point is similar for both.

Thinking of .357 side loaders vs the Ruger M77/357 with rotary mags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Carrying is one point in favor for levers for many. If you only or primarily carry with a sling it may not make much difference. If you hand carry, theres a pretty big difference in thickness and overall size at the carry point. If unscoped, the difference is greater yet. I hand carry the majority of the time, and for a walk-around gun, its often iron sights. Skinny levers are the nicest to carry. I mentioned it before, but my thumb overlaps most of my middle fingernail when wrapped around a Winchester 94 at the carry point of the front of the receiver and rear of the fore end. Scoped they arent as handy, but still thin and nice compared to most bolt actions. Another factor is simply liking them. One is more likely to carry what they like, if its enough for the chosen chore. Guns I dont like dont get carried or used much, and often get sold. Perceived excellence of performance may be the criteria for liking something, such as the precision of a bolt gun in many instances, but often its not the only criteria worth considering.

[willie]

Ditto on Oblong's comment about the Ruger 77's in .357/.44mag. Lever rifles--when left unscoped--are handy companions. For hunting and not double duty as a plinker--a lever rifle in 30-30 Win may be a better choice than one in a handgun caliber. The reloader, if he desires to do so, can make a 30-30 round into a plinker. And then there is the desire to have rifle and handgun in the same caliber and carry both at the same time, and I always asked(and got in trouble usually)why walk around with all that iron?

[jeep45238]

One of the things I like about levers, is the lack of (removable) magazines. I have so many mags already, and I can’t ever just have a few spares, so I like the simplified parts catalog I have to keep.
civiliandefender.com

That is one thing I really appreciate about my revolver. I'm thinking along the lines of unloading the mag before hopping in the vehicle to leave - in Ohio they're not too friendly towards loaded rifles at last check. I'm also mostly a handgun person, so the mags that I do have are standardized mostly and don't take up large amounts of space.

The Henry series seems to be the most friendly towards easily unloading without running the action for every round.


The Ruger 77/357 and 77/44 are basically a rimfire action adapted to shoot the pistol cartridges, so they aren't the beefy tanks that the rifle-cartridge rifles are. The primary bedding contact and recoil control is at the rear of the receiver, which can lead to issues with accuracy. They can be improved, but I don't think I've ever seen someone claim to get the accuracy results that people often claim for the centerfire rifles.
Interesting, and isn't something I've thought about. I'm pretty content with getting 4-6 MOA out of the rifle, giving myself 2-4 MOA of error. From the little I've seen, 3-4 inch groups out of a pistol caliber lever at 100 is pretty respectable, and is something I'd be happy with no matter the action.


Carrying is one point in favor for levers for many. If you only or primarily carry with a sling it may not make much difference. If you hand carry, theres a pretty big difference in thickness and overall size at the carry point. If unscoped, the difference is greater yet. I hand carry the majority of the time, and for a walk-around gun, its often iron sights. Skinny levers are the nicest to carry. I mentioned it before, but my thumb overlaps most of my middle fingernail when wrapped around a Winchester 94 at the carry point of the front of the receiver and rear of the fore end. Scoped they arent as handy, but still thin and nice compared to most bolt actions. Another factor is simply liking them. One is more likely to carry what they like, if its enough for the chosen chore. Guns I dont like dont get carried or used much, and often get sold. Perceived excellence of performance may be the criteria for liking something, such as the precision of a bolt gun in many instances, but often its not the only criteria worth considering.

Based off my past experiences with long guns, it'll probably have a USGI sling setup on it with a sharpie made for loop-supported shooting, a double mark for bicep-loop shooting, and the carrying position just being comfortable. In all likelihood I'll get to the hunting location, loop up, and leave it that way until I leave.


Ditto on Oblong's comment about the Ruger 77's in .357/.44mag. Lever rifles--when left unscoped--are handy companions. For hunting and not double duty as a plinker--a lever rifle in 30-30 Win may be a better choice than one in a handgun caliber. The reloader, if he desires to do so, can make a 30-30 round into a plinker. And then there is the desire to have rifle and handgun in the same caliber and carry both at the same time, and I always asked(and got in trouble usually)why walk around with all that iron?
I won't have my revolver on the hip, as it's not legal for hunting (barrel isn't 5" or more), and why bother when the rifle is there. The pistol will be my P226, but that's a people-person solution, not a deer solution. So while not necessarily limiting to handgun calibers, by keeping the limit to .357/.38 it does allow for some commonality for when family wants to come to the range with me. But, as pointed out before, ammo commonality isn't a requirement if there's a better tool for the job, and I've got 9 months to figure it all out.

That said, here's my only requirement:


Straight-walled cartridge rifles in the following calibers: New this year! All straight-walled cartridge calibers from a minimum of .357 to a maximum of .50. Shotguns and straight-walled cartridge rifles can be loaded with no more than three shells in the chamber and magazine combined.

[Malamute]

Yes, what may be a concern or priority for one person may not affect someone else. What works best for you is the right answer.

[Lester Polfus]

I have a use for a "walking around gun" here on the property, and I find that the 30-30 lever has even begun to eclipse the 12 gauge pump that formerly filled that role. It's just handy. I often find that for my morning walk about/check the cameras/look for cougar sign trips, I'm more inclined to just picked up the "cruiser ready" 30-30 than to even strap on a handgun.

Rapidly working up it's "to do" list is to load some small game loads for the .30-30. I've had great sucess with the 110 grain Speer varmiter over 5 grains of Unique in the .308, and anticipate something similar will work will for the .30-30

We can't carry loaded long guns in vehicles here either, and the DBM is handy for that, but I would note that the Marlin 336 can usually be unloaded through the loading port.

[ECVMatt]

What a great thread! I have liked Leverguns most of my life and have used them for hunting as often as the situation permits. I have found them extremely useful for truck guns, woods bumming, desert exploring, and of course hunting. Most of my lever actions are 30/30, but I also have a .44, 45/70, .357, and a .22LR. I have both Winchesters and Marlins, but perfer the latter. I like the simplicity of the action and disassembly along with the ability to mount sights, scopes, and red dots with ease. Right now my eyes are still pretty good, so I like ghost rings sights. Most of my leverguns wear tubes of less than 20 inches. I grew up carrying my leverguns with a round in the chamber, on 1/2 cock. I have never had a problem with this method, but understand that others might have issues with this. I take the safeties off my Marlins and just go with the 1/2 cock. I am extremely lucky to have both an 1894 P and 1894 CP rifles. These have 16" barrels and are extremely handy. I would be first in line for a 16" SS 1894 in .44 and .357.

Here is a picture of some of my Marlins:

22222

Thank for sharing all the great info.

Matt

[Rex G]

Tell me more about the newer TD model please. I have a '87 manufacture BLR in .308 that I have roughly 100 rounds through. I've been waffling on dropping the coin for either a TD in .308, a TD in .223 or another BLR in .358.

A demo on Youtube would be the best way to see how it takes-down and goes together. If I were to type a description, it would probably confuse some folks, and put others to sleep. In summary, when a lever is lifted, the two parts slide apart. Assembly is the reverse. There are no interrupted-threads, or such, just insert round peg into round hole, and close the take-down lever. I cannot say how well mine holds zero, after take-down and reassembly, because I have not yet mounted an optic, and, IIRC, have not yet done careful test-shooting. Several articles indicated that the return to zero was decent, and I saw this one on the pre-owned rack at a local dealer, when I happened to have a bit of disposable cash, so I bought it. This was several years ago.

A scope, if mounted on the receiver, in the conventional manner, stays on the receiver. There is, or was, a Browning-brand forward scope mount available, to accommodate an IER optic, which leaves the optic on the barrel when the rifle is taken-down.

[Wheeler]

Why run a lever if the same caliber is available in a bolt w/ removable mag? Usage is white tail deer hunting. Price point is similar for both.

Thinking of .357 side loaders vs the Ruger M77/357 with rotary mags.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My 94 AE holds more BB's than a 77/357. It's handy to carry, points quickly, is easier to maneuver in confined spaces, and I can run it faster than a bolt action if need be.

[ECVMatt]

I have a Winchester 94, the Marlin pictured above and the Ruger 77/357 all In .357 obviously. They are all great guns and each have their own particular idiosyncrasies, but I will say that the Ruger is a very handy rifle. It is very light,accurate,and the magazines work well.I would feel well armed with any of them.

[Joe in PNG]

Just for fun, and had I the funds, I'd love to get and pair a Winchester 92 and a S&W 1905 Hand Ejector in .32-20.
Because reasons.

[richiecotite]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/c37ee59dc6e45513a374185bbe786d2c.jpg

My contribution, S&W 57 and Henry big boy steel. Henry mount and 1-4x Leopuld


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/c37ee59dc6e45513a374185bbe786d2c.jpg

My contribution, S&W 57 and Henry big boy steel. Henry mount and 1-4x Leopuld


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is the Henry in .41 Mag too?

[Sherman A. House DDS]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/737a57d25f0c1c66a228fea0421f7c3a.jpg

WHAMMER. I plan on using this at Chief Weems’, “Social Levergun,” at the Tac Con. I’ll be sure to pick a spot on the far end of the line. I wouldn’t recommend standing next to me. Unless you like nosebleeds and toothaches.


civiliandefender.com

[richiecotite]

Is the Henry in .41 Mag too?

For shizzle dizzle

(Yes)

These are more or less fun guns, so I see no reason not to. I’m probably going to pick up youth model 336 in 30-30 in a few months. For right now, my Henry is a fun gun. Hopefully next season it’ll be my deer gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SMD]

The M-Lock forearm is now showing at Midwest Industries' site (https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/product-p/mi-marmr.htm).

I want to see one in person but this seems to solve some real problems: mounting a light, protecting the hand from a hot barrel, and protecting the magazine tube.

[Totem Polar]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/737a57d25f0c1c66a228fea0421f7c3a.jpg

WHAMMER. I plan on using this at Chief Weems’, “Social Levergun,” at the Tac Con. I’ll be sure to pick a spot on the far end of the line. I wouldn’t recommend standing next to me. Unless you like nosebleeds and toothaches.


civiliandefender.com


Throw a nightforce nx8 1-8 on that thing and make Thor weep.

[JM Campbell]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/737a57d25f0c1c66a228fea0421f7c3a.jpg

WHAMMER. I plan on using this at Chief Weems’, “Social Levergun,” at the Tac Con. I’ll be sure to pick a spot on the far end of the line. I wouldn’t recommend standing next to me. Unless you like nosebleeds and toothaches.


civiliandefender.com

Wow! That looks awesome. Details on the rifle please and who did the custom work if any?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[willie]

A man in Texas sued Marlin and won after he got shot by a dummy pointing his rifle at him while the dummy emptied the rifle by working the lever to run rounds through the action. The dummy was a dummy because he was negligent. Marlins and Winchesters have very pronounced safety or halfcock notches and were considered safe to carry with a chambered round. The safety is useful when unloading these rifles. Use if your rifle has one.

[Dropkick]

WHAMMER. I plan on using this at Chief Weems’, “Social Levergun,” at the Tac Con. I’ll be sure to pick a spot on the far end of the line. I wouldn’t recommend standing next to me. Unless you like nosebleeds and toothaches.

Dat's gangsta bruh!

[Wheeler]

A man in Texas sued Marlin and won after he got shot by a dummy pointing his rifle at him while the dummy emptied the rifle by working the lever to run rounds through the action. The dummy was a dummy because he was negligent. Marlins and Winchesters have very pronounced safety or halfcock notches and were considered safe to carry with a chambered round. The safety is useful when unloading these rifles. Use if your rifle has one.

Google is not providing any results to that particular claim. Can you provide links or references? That would be the first lawsuit that I've ever heard of where a firearms manufacturer was sued and paid out for the negligence of an end user.

Older Marlins and Winchesters do not have safeties other than the half cock and lever safeties. I can't really speak for the Marlins but I can't cycle the action on any of my Winchester 94's without the slide cocking the hammer. This is a prime example of one not paying attention to their finger on the trigger, muzzle direction, treating their firearm as if it were loaded, and being sure of their target.

[willie]

No reference but I worked with a relative of the injured party who, if memory serves me, lived in Walker county, Texas. I'll search too and see what I can dig up.

[Drang]

Throw a nightforce nx8 1-8 on that thing and make Thor weep.

Weep, hell, that thing would give Thor a chubby. He'd call it Mjolnir II. (Although the "handle" is the proper length...)

[Sherman A. House DDS]

No custom work on this...it came straight from Marlington like this. The difference between this and a Guide Gun is the extended magazine tube, the curved lever and pistol grip, the laminate and the XS sights.

I’m a high volume shooter. It’s nothing for me to shoot 750-1000 rounds in a 12 hour day.

But this thing, with full power ammo, I’m done, truck packed, after 40 rounds. I’m going to get some of the reduced power .45-70 from Buffalo Bore.

My, “garden variety,” lever is a Rossi 1892 in .357 that is an older vintage, and it’s well vetted. If you were at Paulepalooza 4, it was the lever that I used in Chuck Haggard’s class. I ditched the safety on it, and the buckhorns, and replaced the safety drum with a Steve’s Gunz aperture sight. I haven’t figured out a way to carry spare Ammo with these. I tried .308 sized elastic loops velcroed to the stock, but with the brass up or down, it turns into a garage sale after a magazine full.

I think maybe a 3-4 round purpose built Velcro card put just on the proximal end of the forearm, to give me a short trip to the loading port that would be out of the way of the sling and lessen the tipping effect of the rounds from the rotational forces of the lever arm from firing.


civiliandefender.com

[Malamute]

One of the leather ammo carriers on the butt stock would likely be a huge improvement on usability. ive never had good feelings about the elastic units, it doesnt surprise me that they dont do well with the little 357 rounds. Cartridge belts also work pretty well for having spare ammo handy and ready to go with the gun, though not as fast for reloads as a pocket. Cartridge belts work best with the rounds in the front. I keep belts either rolled up next to the gun in vehicles or hanging on a nail or hook by the door at home.

[GJM]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171221/737a57d25f0c1c66a228fea0421f7c3a.jpg

WHAMMER. I plan on using this at Chief Weems’, “Social Levergun,” at the Tac Con. I’ll be sure to pick a spot on the far end of the line. I wouldn’t recommend standing next to me. Unless you like nosebleeds and toothaches.


civiliandefender.com

I woke up at 330 am, saw this picture and wanted to ask whether the rail creates a sharp spot when you carry it with your hand cradling the action. I then promptly fell back asleep, and had a dream where I met Sherman somewhere. He pulled out two gats he was carrying concealed to show me — a five inch 629 and a ten shot, Freedom Arms DA revolver in .327 Federal. Honest.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I woke up at 330 am, saw this picture and wanted to ask whether the rail creates a sharp spot when you carry it with your hand cradling the action. I then promptly fell back asleep, and had a dream where I met Sherman somewhere. He pulled out two gats he was carrying concealed to show me — a five inch 629 and a ten shot, Freedom Arms DA revolver in .327 Federal. Honest.

That’s funny George! These days, the only revolver you’ll see on me is a j frame or a k/l service revolver if I’m teaching something revolver-centric. I wish I had a 29/629 without a lock though! I had a 629 backpacker that would engage the lock with 240 grain JHP’s. It did it twice. I promptly trade it, plus every other ILS equipped Smith I had. That coincided with the rebranding of my site, and the completion of a Givens class where Tom talked about the locks engaging and me thinking, “that’s never happened to me!” Not that I didn’t believe Tom, but I had just been lucky until then. So I’m considerably revolver-light now, compared to just a few months back!

I’m a regular at a few LGS’ here and they’ll call me if a non-lock 29 or 629 shows up. Until then, I run my USP .45 (old armored truck duty gun) in a duty rig, for outdoors work; I’m still in the experimental mode with the .45-70, so I run the 870 with slugs until I feel I’ve really bonded with the big lever.


civiliandefender.com

[jandbj]

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/731953457

[Wheeler]

No reference but I worked with a relative of the injured party who, if memory serves me, lived in Walker county, Texas. I'll search too and see what I can dig up.

I'd love to see anything you can come up with.

[Wheeler]

One of the leather ammo carriers on the butt stock would likely be a huge improvement on usability. ive never had good feelings about the elastic units, it doesnt surprise me that they dont do well with the little 357 rounds. Cartridge belts also work pretty well for having spare ammo handy and ready to go with the gun, though not as fast for reloads as a pocket. Cartridge belts work best with the rounds in the front. I keep belts either rolled up next to the gun in vehicles or hanging on a nail or hook by the door at home.

I've never been a fan of the butt cuffs for ammo as I will switch hit depending on the shot I need to take. I can work a cartridge slider faster than a pocket, I've also considered a few loops sewn on a vest or jacket that can hold a couple extra rounds up near the breach and in the work space.

[Jay585]

Got a Marlin 336 and was comparing it to my fathers Winchester 94.

Overall the Marlin is a better gun but I prefer the slimmer wood on the Winchester. Anyone make slimmer aftermarket stocks or have a how-to on slimming the fore end and stock myself?

[Malamute]

Got a Marlin 336 and was comparing it to my fathers Winchester 94.

Overall the Marlin is a better gun but I prefer the slimmer wood on the Winchester. Anyone make slimmer aftermarket stocks or have a how-to on slimming the fore end and stock myself?

A wood rasp works fine for the coarse work, then finer file or sandpaper or orbital sander. Just dont try to get too close to the level of the metal without taking it apart. I did a model 39 and a 45-70 years ago. Never liked the thick wood on Marlins much, so filed them down about flush with the metal on each end.

Interesting, I came to the opposite conclusion about the guns.

[Jay585]

Don’t have much time of experience or time but the Marlin has a better trigger and less slop. The lever safety (where the lever must depress a safety button to fire) is easier to disengage and more comfortable with the Marlin.

Again, I am not an expert. Winchester 94 AE is mid 90’s era and Marlin is post Remington buyout, if that matters.

[Malamute]

Some of those things can vary with individual guns, or be fairly easily corrected, like trigger actions. A little burnishing can help most of them also.

Both are good guns, just different things about them that can be strong points or potential annoyances. I tend to leave mine magazine loaded most of the time, chamber empty, and occasionally load a small game or grouse load and leave the magazine loaded with regular stuff. Thats simpler for me with the Winchester type, or shooting the small game load and clearing the chamber and leaving the magazine loaded.

The AEs deal with the optics mounting difference pretty well.

[JHC]

Well alright then . . .

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/12/28/new-marlin-lever-guns/

Threaded barrels plus, "Other features on the new Marlin lever guns include XS Sight Systems ghost ring sights, big loop levers, and weather resistant stainless steel finishes. Besides the 38/357 chamberings, Marlin is making the new carbines available in .44 Special/.44 Magnum."

[peterb]

Question: Why do lever gun stocks have so much more drop at the comb than most other rifle stocks? Is it just for the look? Or is there a functional advantage?

[Malamute]

Question: Why do lever gun stocks have so much more drop at the comb than most other rifle stocks? Is it just for the look? Or is there a functional advantage?

I believe its mainly because they are stocked primarily for iron sights on a very low line of sight over the bore. Theyve gotten somewhat better over time in the amount of drop at the heel, with the current stocks being what would be termed shotgun butts having better angles and taller, wider combs and less drop at the heel. Older guns, and the older crescent stocks on levers had more drop at the heel, which makes the angle of the comb smack you in the cheek when they recoil. I find most crescent stocks pretty uncomfortable to shoulder or shoot because of all the old fashioned design factors forced upon one. Older bolt action sporting stocks were so built as well, and started to be corrected or improved when some custom stock makers began making better stocks in the 20s or so.

Adding iron sights on many current generation bolt guns makes it hard to get down on the irons unless they sit fairly high over the bore line. Stocking is often somewhat of a compromise, based on the most likely use and/or being able to use in more than one mode. The Ruger 77 stocks seem to work fairly well with scopes and irons, at least for me, which adds an other factor the stock makers are trying to deal with, a huge variety of people using them.

[OlongJohnson]

Marlin catalog from SHOT is online:

https://secure.viewer.zmags.com/publication/3b5ba328#/3b5ba328/14

Advertises the return of the 1894C .357 a few different ways.

[Totem Polar]

Marlin catalog from SHOT is online:

https://secure.viewer.zmags.com/publication/3b5ba328#/3b5ba328/14

Advertises the return of the 1894C .357 a few different ways.
^^^Both the threaded barrel, and the "guide gun" versions of the .38/.357 really get my tail wagging.

[willie]

Peterb, another reason for stock drop in lever rifles is that traditionally lever action rifles have been offered with straight stocks as opposed to pistol grip stocks. Straight stocks and scopes are incompatible. In a sense that's ok because this style rifle loses its handiness when scoped. They are not a rifleman's rifle but do serve a niche from utility to close range deer hunting. Everybody needs at least one.

[Malamute]

I would have to respectfully disagree about straight grip stocks and scopes being incompatible. Ive had several scoped straight grip stocks and like them. Carrying a pistol gripped bolt gun across a saddle in front of you is a pain, I cut the pistol grip off two bolt actions and really liked how they turned out. Much easier to carry across the saddle in front of you also, with hand on the wrist of the stock.

Ive been liking scopes more all the time the past few years. Compact scopes like a Leupold 1-4 keep the gun fairly unencumbered, but does inhibit in hand carry to some degree compared to an unscoped lever gun. The tradeoff in shootability makes up for it if one is going to shoot any as opposed to a general off season walk around gun.

[willie]

Your experience trumps mine. I did ride horses when I was a kid but was more dude than equestrian. For me a lever gun is a rifle used for occasional woods walks or for shooting stumps and dirt clods using my favorite cast bullet loads. Sometimes the stumps and dirt clods are long distance. You're a serious lever user/hunter guy. I'm not at that level. OK, now let me get back in my arm chair.:cool:

[Totem Polar]

Bumping to ssk if anyone has experience with the chiappa .22 LR lever guns, eg:

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/415000942/cf_la322_22lr_take_down_deluxe_lever_action_15rd

TIA.

[Prdator]

So I don't own a Lever gun right now but I'm looking for two of them. I want a Win 94 in 30WCF cause I think that is cool as shit... Im also looking for a Win 94 in 375 win. yes 375!! So dad and I was on a deer hunt in Wyoming when I was a little kid and Winchester had just released the 94 BIG BORE!!! 375 win the little gun shop we went in had signs all over it for that gun and the guy let me hold one... So ive been looking for one ever since and by looking Im kinda waiting on the right gun to find me. in just the last two weeks ive been given 3 boxes of 375 Win ammo !! how cool is that!! so I know the right gun will find me.

[Toonces]

Im also looking for a Win 94 in 375 win. yes 375!! So dad and I was on a deer hunt in Wyoming when I was a little kid and Winchester had just released the 94 BIG BORE!!! 375 win the little gun shop we went in had signs all over it for that gun and the guy let me hold one... So ive been looking for one ever since and by looking Im kinda waiting on the right gun to find me. in just the last two weeks ive been given 3 boxes of 375 Win ammo !! how cool is that!! so I know the right gun will find me.

I've always wanted one of those 375 Winchesters, as they are more svelte than the other big bore levers. Earlier today I was at the Richfield WI Cabela's looking at one. It was the worst Winchester I've ever handled. The action had a couple of weird hitches when the lever was operated, the lever didn't stay closed like a normal 94, it rattled, and the trigger was atrocious. All this for $800! The outside looked good, with no obvious signs of abuse. They had two, the other looked identical for $1100.

However, the $1100 Winchester Model 71 was an absolute joy to handle and work the action. I just wish it was a more normal caliber, as I'm trying to avoid increasing the number of calibers I maintain, especially expensive weird ones.

[Totem Polar]

So, one of these happened:


http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/HenryBigBoyBIGGIN2.jpg


I was in my favorite friendly LGS the other day, and they had a bunch of new Winchester levers in their stand-up display case of old-school walnut and blue steel inventory. I asked if any of them happened to be chambered in .357/.38, since all this SHOT excitement has me hot n’ bothered to find a mate for my wheelie collection, and the response was "No, it’s all pretty much 30 cal... but we do have a LNIB .357 Henry big boy in back that comes off 30-day hold in another week or so. You want us to put your name on it?"

Absolutely mint; absolutely enough cheaper than new for my hand to cause a hurricane in Malaysia via butterfly effect from reaching for my wallet, so to speak. I’ve learned when to take "yes" for an answer, and this was one of those unexpected times.

I love a good impulse buy.

[Lester Polfus]

So, one of these happened:


http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/HenryBigBoyBIGGIN2.jpg


I was in my favorite friendly LGS the other day, and they had a bunch of new Winchester levers in their stand-up display case of old-school walnut and blue steel inventory. I asked if any of them happened to be chambered in .357/.38, since all this SHOT excitement has me hot n’ bothered to find a mate for my wheelie collection, and the response was "No, it’s all pretty much 30 cal... but we do have a LNIB .357 Henry big boy in back that comes off 30-day hold in another week or so. You want us to put your name on it?"

Absolutely mint; absolutely enough cheaper than new for my hand to cause a hurricane in Malaysia via butterfly effect from reaching for my wallet, so to speak. I’ve learned when to take "yes" for an answer, and this was one of those unexpected times.

I love a good impulse buy.

That is a handsome rifle.

[OlongJohnson]

The thing that kills me about Henrys is the lack of a loading gate.

[Lester Polfus]

The thing that kills me about Henrys is the lack of a loading gate.

If they had a loading gate, I would need a second gun safe.

[Bigghoss]

The thing that kills me about Henrys is the lack of a loading gate.


If they had a loading gate, I would need a second gun safe.

This. When I emailed the president about it he told me "not gonna happen". He doesn't give a crap what anyone says, tube loading is the way to go as far as he's concerned and everyone else need to get on board.

[Wheeler]

This. When I emailed the president about it he told me "not gonna happen". He doesn't give a crap what anyone says, tube loading is the way to go as far as he's concerned and everyone else need to get on board.

That seems to be a good business model for them thus far compared to whoever else is still making lever actions as an afterthought to their product line.

[Bigghoss]

That seems to be a good business model for them thus far compared to whoever else is still making lever actions as an afterthought to their product line.

Ignoring the customer base is never a good business model. It just happens that they make the best (and best looking) lever guns in that price range and I suspect that most people don't really care how the rounds get into the gun.


Maybe I'm missing something but is there a reason you couldn't have a loading gate and load it in the tube?

[Andrew E]

Ignoring the customer base is never a good business model. It just happens that they make the best (and best looking) lever guns in that price range and I suspect that most people don't really care how the rounds get into the gun.


Maybe I'm missing something but is there a reason you couldn't have a loading gate and load it in the tube?

Probably not; if memory serves, the Rossi .454 models had both tube and gate loading.

[Hambo]

The thing that kills me about Henrys is the lack of a loading gate.

It does make unloading easier, but...


If they had a loading gate, I would need a second gun safe.

The day they offer a loading gate I'll buy a .44 magnum and .45-70.

[OlongJohnson]

That seems to be a good business model for them thus far compared to whoever else is still making lever actions as an afterthought to their product line.

So in a battle between nice guns with a manual of arms that's been obsolete for 120 years and guns that should be nice but are mostly junk, quality wins. Got it.

[Totem Polar]

For my needs, I’m personally good with tube loading. The fit, finish and tranfer bar hammer advantage compensate for the absent loading gate. I’m too lazy to go back through the whole thread again, but I’m reasonably certain that it was SLG who commented about the ease of loading/unloading and cold-weather/gloved utility of these things. At any rate, I grew up with tube magazine .22LRs, and still have 3 of the old twist knob dogs in my safe as is, so I’m not put off by a fourth, especially at the price I’ll be paying for this hefty, sexy beast.

And, hey, have y’all seen some of the external ballistics folks have been getting with some .357 loads out of 20" barrels? To paraphrase the same old saw, yet again: "if ya can’t do it with 10+1 rounds of 158 grains at 2200fps, ya can’t do it at all..."
:D

[Wyoming Shooter]

A very close friend and experienced lever gun shooter has been using this Henry "Big Boy" in 16" 38/357: https://www.henryusa.com/rifles/henry-big-boy-steel/. He is extremely pleased. His only modification has been to add a Skinner rear: http://skinnersights.com/henry_rifles_18.html. He has had no malfunctions of any sort. Here is his 50 yard test target zeroing the carbine with the Skinner rear and factory front gold bead:

23754

[Wheeler]

Ignoring the customer base is never a good business model. It just happens that they make the best (and best looking) lever guns in that price range and I suspect that most people don't really care how the rounds get into the gun.


Maybe I'm missing something but is there a reason you couldn't have a loading gate and load it in the tube?

Which customer base are they ignoring exactly? The one that want American made lever actions at a ‘reasonable’ price or the one that wants loading gates? Which is larger?

There’s less machining, parts, and fitting involved to have a loading port in the tube be a loading gate.

[Wheeler]

So in a battle between nice guns with a manual of arms that's been obsolete for 120 years and guns that should be nice but are mostly junk, quality wins. Got it.

The numbers don’t lie regardless of one’s opinion. :)

[Sherman A. House DDS]

The great John Farnam says, “Lever action rifles became obsolete after John M. Browning invented the first self-loading rifle.”

When you appreciate lever action rifles for what they are, and understand that while they may be adequate for self defense or hunting, they aren’t an AR. And no loading gate will change that. Plus, it would be quite a sentinel event for a civilian self defense scenario to exceed the capacity of a tube Fed Henry.

I have both loading gate guns and a Henry. And if I was going somewhere cold, I’d opt for the Henry, since there are less places for moisture to permeate into the receiver.


civiliandefender.com

[Wheeler]

The great John Farnam says, “Lever action rifles became obsolete after John M. Browning invented the first self-loading rifle.”

When you appreciate lever action rifles for what they are, and understand that while they may be adequate for self defense or hunting, they aren’t an AR. And no loading gate will change that. Plus, it would be quite a sentinel event for a civilian self defense scenario to exceed the capacity of a tube Fed Henry.

I have both loading gate guns and a Henry. And if I was going somewhere cold, I’d opt for the Henry, since there are less places for moisture to permeate into the receiver.


civiliandefender.com

The desire to top off and reload firearms comes from high volume training classes more so than from actual events in which private citizens participated. I carry spare ammo as an option for malfunction clearing and/or administrative reloading or topping off, not because I figure I'm going to have to shoot the gun dry again!

[Clusterfrack]

Heavily armed drug growers make me want the option of reloading...

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/06/after_the_bust_huge_pot_planatation_lies_abandoned _in_wallowa_county_but_still_an_environmental_head .html

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/06/drug_cartels_in_oregon_in_the.html

[BillSWPA]

If one is selecting a lever gun for serious purposes, such as for use in a ban state, my understanding is that reloading a lever gun in the middle of a fight is not going to be fun regardless. So, a reliable pistol caliber model with as many cartridges in the magazine as possible would be preferred.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

Heavily armed drug growers make me want the option of reloading...

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/06/after_the_bust_huge_pot_planatation_lies_abandoned _in_wallowa_county_but_still_an_environmental_head .html

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/06/drug_cartels_in_oregon_in_the.html

Isn't an armed confrontation with those guys close to getting struck by lightning statistically?

[Clusterfrack]

Isn't an armed confrontation with those guys close to getting struck by lightning statistically?

I sure hope so. But, I’ve had some creepy things happen in the OR backcountry. E.g convoy of vehicles driving at speed in a place you wouldn’t expect to see many folks. I prefer to be prepared.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Heavily armed drug growers make me want the option of reloading...

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/06/after_the_bust_huge_pot_planatation_lies_abandoned _in_wallowa_county_but_still_an_environmental_head .html

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2013/06/drug_cartels_in_oregon_in_the.html

See, I would just opt for a semi rifle it that was the threat profile for the area. If people asked, “why,” I needed a MSR for hiking/mountaineering, I’d refer them to the cartel action. Lord knows the cartel won’t have manually operated long guns!


civiliandefender.com

[Wheeler]

I sure hope so. But, I’ve had some creepy things happen in the OR backcountry. E.g convoy of vehicles driving at speed in a place you wouldn’t expect to see many folks. I prefer to be prepared.

I've not seen anything like that in my area, although there are rumors of such shenanigans in middle and south Georgia. All I can offer are anecdotes based on my personal experiences, should anyone care to hear them.

[OlongJohnson]

If one is selecting a lever gun for serious purposes, such as for use in a ban state, my understanding is that reloading a lever gun in the middle of a fight is not going to be fun regardless. So, a reliable pistol caliber model with as many cartridges in the magazine as possible would be preferred.

In CA, the 10-round limit applies to tube magazines as well.



Isn't an armed confrontation with those guys close to getting struck by lightning statistically?

Friends of mine have been subject to a volley of what they assumed were "warning shots" when hiking on public, marked trails not very far at all from civilization in the Angeles Forest (north of LA in So Cal).

On the other hand, I do have another friend who was struck by lightning while getting into the car in front of his house on a calm day...

I'm packing up the second out-of-the-box defective brand new J-frame I've managed to buy (2 for 2 on that) to send it back to S&W right now, so...

[Totem Polar]

I'm packing up the second out-of-the-box defective brand new J-frame I've managed to buy (2 for 2 on that) to send it back to S&W right now, so...

For reals? That's a tough break. Hope they tune one up nicely for you for your trouble.

[Le Français]

I'm packing up the second out-of-the-box defective brand new J-frame I've managed to buy (2 for 2 on that) to send it back to S&W right now, so...

Off topic, but same here! A 642 had serious pitting in the bore, and a Performance Center 442 has a trigger that must be manually reset during dry fire.

[peterb]

I'm packing up the second out-of-the-box defective brand new J-frame I've managed to buy (2 for 2 on that) to send it back to S&W right now, so...

Sounds like like S&W needs to bin their current production into two part numbers:
-D: will put in drawer
-S: will actually shoot

[HCM]

See, I would just opt for a semi rifle it that was the threat profile for the area. If people asked, “why,” I needed a MSR for hiking/mountaineering, I’d refer them to the cartel action. Lord knows the cartel won’t have manually operated long guns!


civiliandefender.com

I’ve worked aome of those grows in Northen CA with USFS. The grow teams are armed with what ever random guns they can get their hands on, shotguns, .22s, hunting rifles, etc. you see some SKS, AK etc but these guys are mainly armed due to bears and poaching deer because they love eating the crop. It ain’t the movies.

[OlongJohnson]

What do deer do when they get stoned?

[Totem Polar]

What do deer do when they get stoned?

I guess in my neck of the woods (PacNW/upper western US) that would make them drug Mules...

[Wheeler]

In CA, the 10-round limit applies to tube magazines as well.




Friends of mine have been subject to a volley of what they assumed were "warning shots" when hiking on public, marked trails not very far at all from civilization in the Angeles Forest (north of LA in So Cal).

On the other hand, I do have another friend who was struck by lightning while getting into the car in front of his house on a calm day...

I'm packing up the second out-of-the-box defective brand new J-frame I've managed to buy (2 for 2 on that) to send it back to S&W right now, so...

I take assumptions with a grain of salt. No offense to either you or your friends...

What precautions/steps have you taken now that you have direct experience with an individual that has been struck by lightning?

I hate to hear about your poor luck buying J frames. Are you ordering these or purchasing them at a brick and mortar location? A friend of mine acquired two Colt rifles with issues. Needless to say that's colored my judgement of Colt rifles. :)

[OlongJohnson]

What precautions/steps have you taken now that you have direct experience with an individual that has been struck by lightning?

I hate to hear about your poor luck buying J frames. Are you ordering these or purchasing them at a brick and mortar location? A friend of mine acquired two Colt rifles with issues. Needless to say that's colored my judgement of Colt rifles. :)

I'm pretty careful to stay indoors when thunder roars.

I have ordered online, because the 30 percent or more cost difference is compelling to me, as well as the fact that I would have to spend an inordinate amount of time driving or calling around to gun shops to find one in stock, only to pay retail or near it, or have a local shop order it and wait for it to show up, pay full retail for the privilege, and have no more assurance that what arrived would be acceptable. The shop I do transfers with has figured that out, and does a thriving business in mail order transfers.

[HCM]

What do deer do when they get stoned?

IDK but deer do love to eat marijuana.

[entropy]

I visit several forums. I can honestly say this one is the most expensive.....

[Jared]

Adding to this thread because it seems to be the longest running....

I'm about to acquire a Winchester 94 trapper in 44 Mag. This is one of the 100th anniversary guns marked 1894-1994. Main reason I'm acquiring it is because Dad had one exactly like it when I was in my early teens and it was one of my favorite things to shoot. Then he traded it in on something else....

Anyway, I'm about to take a trip down memory lane. I know there's plenty of folks that say the 94 is not great as a pistol caliber rifle. I'm totally cool with that as this is a nostalgia piece for me mostly.

That said, do any of the lever gun experts have any advice or tips/tricks for this particular rifle before I start shooting it?

[willie]

Some of these have had feeding issues but am not implying that they all do. You might ask the owner to let you run ammo through the action to check for tis occurrence. As you know, this procedure is the one and only way to unload the carbine so asking for the privilege to do so is not unreasonable. Once I had one in .45 Colt that the factory could not make run without hanging up. These are outstanding carbines. Usually with handgun caliber carbines, oal and bullet shape are critical.

[Malamute]

Adding to this thread because it seems to be the longest running....

I'm about to acquire a Winchester 94 trapper in 44 Mag. This is one of the 100th anniversary guns marked 1894-1994. Main reason I'm acquiring it is because Dad had one exactly like it when I was in my early teens and it was one of my favorite things to shoot. Then he traded it in on something else....

Anyway, I'm about to take a trip down memory lane. I know there's plenty of folks that say the 94 is not great as a pistol caliber rifle. I'm totally cool with that as this is a nostalgia piece for me mostly.

That said, do any of the lever gun experts have any advice or tips/tricks for this particular rifle before I start shooting it?

I havent studied the matter closely, but I believe the one part thats problematic in pistol calibers for the 94 is the link, the part that pivots out the bottom of the frame, draws the locking bolt out, pivots the lever, and has the cartridge stop on the forward end of it. The small bit that functions as the cartridge stop is what can cause problems. I dont know if the 44s have the problems, I believe the 357s were more problematic for whatever reason, possible due to the small diameter of the cartridges. I think its also partly due to the small amount of difference in diameter of the shell base and rim diameter. The less rim to work with compared to shell body, the finer fitted it has to be. The 30-30 class of cartridges had enough rim that they work very well for the most part.

Do you have a small triangular ceramic file/stone? Brownells has them. The edges of the link in later guns can be sharp. A general toning down of the edges can help. The one thing many later guns truly need a bit of work on is the loading gate. When loaded, the rim goes behind the front edge of the gate just slightly. The burrs and rough surface of the back of the gate can make it difficult to load more rounds in. It shouldnt be hard, and one shouldnt have to resort to not feeding each round all the way in the get their gun loaded. If well polished on the bevel on the inside forward part of the gate, it makes loading easy. All the older 94s Ive had loaded slick as can be no matter how many rounds were in the magazine already. Anything less than that is unacceptable to me. Its not hard to do, the biggest thing is getting the screw started back in without cross-threading it. A while back I posted pics of the gate and part that needs polishing on most later guns, if you dont see it, I'll post it again.

Ive sat with them and felt all the edges. the triggers can be rough or sharp edged, back or sides of the hammer spur, front top edge of the bolt, edges of the receiver around the loading gate, edges of the lever, muzzle, front edge of magazine cap, can all use a little attention from the ceramic stone some times. Its unfortunately one of the things the newer guns seem to have missed getting attention on. The actions seem fairly slick feeling otherwise. If you have the bolt out, polishing the edges of the bolt and inside edges of the receiver where the bolt rides doesnt hurt. and makes them feel better yet when cycling.

[Clusterfrack]

I have a 94 Trapper in .44 Mag that I inherited from my dad. I don’t have a lot of rounds through it, but no issues so far...

I removed the crossbolt safety and plugged the holes. Also added XS ghost ring sights.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/50754ad2822d1b8ea73afa2beb247fe8.jpg

[Jared]

Thanks willie, Malamute, and Clusterfrack.

[Stephanie B]

My ‘94:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/a094749457598da2afde1c0d3e31c5e3.jpg

[willie]

Now that is a nice rifle. Would you like to trade it for a S&W....?

[OlongJohnson]

Ive sat with them and felt all the edges. the triggers can be rough or sharp edged, back or sides of the hammer spur, front top edge of the bolt, edges of the receiver around the loading gate, edges of the lever, muzzle, front edge of magazine cap, can all use a little attention from the ceramic stone some times. Its unfortunately one of the things the newer guns seem to have missed getting attention on. The actions seem fairly slick feeling otherwise. If you have the bolt out, polishing the edges of the bolt and inside edges of the receiver where the bolt rides doesnt hurt. and makes them feel better yet when cycling.

This general approach works wonders on revolvers, too, and is a strong argument in favor of stainless guns.

[Malamute]

This general approach works wonders on revolvers, too, and is a strong argument in favor of stainless guns.

It does help revolvers, though I wont go so far as to give stainless any more credit than necessary. I just live with the shiny edges and call it good, or cold blue the spots with Brownells oxpho blue, all the while thinking "sure glad its not stainless..." :)

Ive wondered if the urge to keep sharp edges in check are part of why I dont mind grooved triggers. A few have needed to have sharp edges and spots on the grooved face cleaned up, but overall, I like grooved triggers.