Lever Guns

[SLG]

Who likes em? Which ones? Why and for what? I've mostly been a 45-70 kind of guy, but I recently took the 30-30's out and they were very enjoyable. Might switch my "main lever" over to one of them. Also, just ordered an HPG stock pack for one of the 30-30's. I was impressed with it at SHOT, but didn't really need it at the time. I also would prefer if it carried a few less rds, but I suppose I don't have to load it all the way up.

I have a Winchester, and a few Marlins. Some have the crossbolt safety and some don't. I'm mostly ambivalent about the safety, but I do think it is less safe to rely on the half cock notch. Any thoughts on that, especially from any of the armorers or long time users who might be here?

[HCM]

I currently have three. A Marlin 1895 Guide gun in 45-70 I've had since the 1990's, a 1960's vintage marlin 39 .22LR and 1960's vintage marlin 336 30-30 with an Octagon barrel and full magazine tube. Both the 1960's guns belonged to my late uncle. The guide gun in particular is a great hog hunting gun for close brushy country. Mine currently has a Burris 2.7 5X scout scope but lately I've been thinking of trying to put an RMR or an Aimpoint T1 on there.

I've had and sold two of the Marlin 1895 "cowboy" 45-70's with the Octagon barrels and full magazines. Both were good guns but just didn't get shot enough to justify them. I wish I had picked up a Marlin 1894 "Cowboy" in .357 before The "Remlin"era.

My grail lever gun is a Winchester 1895 Saddle Ring Carbine in .30 U.S. (Aka 30-40 Krag) or 30-6 with a receiver mounted peep sight.

[Malamute]

I'm a long time lever fan. I've had them from about the 1880's on up. My all time favorite is the Winchester 1886. The action makes a 45-70 cartridge look small in it. They will take a 45-90 or 50-110 round easily. I have a Browning 86 carbine I had 2" chopped off of it, to an even 20", put a Lyman 56 receiver sight and sling studs on. Its one of my favorite carry guns in the mountains, besides the model 71 Winchester (348 cal).

I like the Winchester 94's quite a lot. In general, if one doesnt dry fire them with no snap caps, they will run about forever. I've had maybe a couple dozen of them over the years. The one I carry the most is a 1927 gun that I had a spare barrel chopped to 16". Its a good truck gun and general walk around gun. I have a project gun to build in 38-55 cal. It should be fun once done. They can be run about 1800 fps or so with the 255 gr bullets without bending anything. The guys that have used them on moose in Canada say they generally shoot through them with the Barnes Originals or cast loads at that velocity.

The Winchester 92 type actions are in pistol caliber size rounds. I have a Browning 92 in 44 mag cal. I had a Ruger ring base machined down and silver soldered on the side of the mag tube for a light mount. I have a Surefire 6P in a Ruger ring on it, it works real well for a night time gun. The Ruger ring base is much smaller than the common weaver type base and tucks out of the way pretty well when I dont want the light on it. It usually only has 200 gr lead flat point loads at about 12-1300 fps in it, but the 265 gr Hornadys and other heavies work all right. The overall length can be tinkered with to accept some longer bulleted loads. I havent done it. It wont take the Lyman/Keith 250 gr bullet in mag cases, but in 44 spl cases works fine. I'd like to chop it to 17" at some point.

Most of mine have had decent Lyman receiver sights and slings added, and often a sourdough type front blade. I've taken to painting the front sights orange recently, it shows up pretty well in lower light. Id like to have an angle eject gun I could easily scope and use for a general purpose gun.

The lever work well for me. I've hunted with them a bit, hitting running rabbits hasnt been much problem. Having an older Marlin 39 in 22 cal and shooting a bazillion rounds through it is good practice.

The crossbolt safety guns are arguably safer to handle if loaded, and the safety is good for unloading, but some have had them end up unexpectedly on when they wanted to shoot. Some of us traditionalists prefer the regular half cosk safeties, but I rarely ever chamber a round unless ready to shoot, or I drop a extra-light load in the chamber for snakes or grouse. I leave the magazine loaded on most of mine at all times. They been loaded for most of the time I've owned them. I grab different guns at different times depending on use or perceived need. If the hammer is down, the chamber is empty and magazine loaded. If in storage they may not be loaded. Most seem to be though.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I love lever guns. I have a slightly slicked-up Rossi saddle carbine in .357 that is one of my few never-sell guns. It's just so flat, light, and handy.

Most recently I reviewed a couple of thousand-dollar-plus Chiappas in .44mag. Man, they were beauties. Full stocks, 12" barrels, on colour case hardened with an octagonal barrel and one stainless takedown model.

I did not want to give them back. They were so fun out around 75m...thump.

http://i.imgur.com/nNyUhIv.jpg

[LOKNLOD]

Funny you mention Chiappa levers, I saw one of their lever "pistols" the other day, and now I have this ridiculous desire to SBR one.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I can't speak for any but the ones I had, which were part of a special manufacturing run, but these ones were gorgeous, inside and out.

I don't think I have any good pictures of them from a distance but a 12" barreled lever gun is AWESOME.


Okay, picture from the retailer:

http://i.imgur.com/IhikSL9.jpg

[LOKNLOD]

Uhhh....
I've never used this common 'netism before, but....

I'll be in my bunk.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f392/LOKNLOD/give_it_to_me_stephen_colbert_zpshq8vmdk1.gif

[Clobbersaurus]

I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 Mag.

My dad bought it in the 70's, it's got to be at least as old as I am. Beautiful trigger, beautiful wood and very accurate. I'll never sell it. I'll try to get a pic of it when I have more time.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Totally post a pic, those make me moist.

[ACP230]

I have a few hanging around.
Shot the Marlin M39A .22 in a drill last week.
Have a Marlin 1894FG in .41 Magnum as well.
Both have "ghost ring" peep sights that work well for me.
So does a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70.

A couple years ago I started feeling un-American without a .30-30.
A local pawn shop then had a sale and I picked up a Marlin 336 in that caliber.
Hasn't been shot as much as the others but it's not going anywhere.
The scope is going to be replaced with a peep one of these days.

The 39A and the .41 Magnum are the most fun of the bunch, I think.

[SLG]

So...no thoughts on the safety vs. the half cock?

I would like a 41 mag Marlin one of these days.

[GJM]

Pretty much what Mal said.

The safety is good if you want to dry fire, and protect the firing pin, but I disable them for field use. I carry condition three in the field, until on an animal or feeling threatened.

Favorite is a Marlin .45-70 cut to 16.25 barrel and a short LOP. Like the Marlin 30-30 as a sub caliber trainer for the 45-70, but it seems to heavy for 30-30. For all around, I prefer the pre-64 Winchester in 30-30 to the Marlin. Don't like the pistol cartridge levers, that I have tried, as they don't feed as well as the rifle cartridges. Plus they have a useful range of about 100 yards less.

A shortened Guide Gun has an incredible ratio of power to weight and length.

[SLG]

And this brings me to one reason why I never choose a levergun for anything serious. I like to carry chamber loaded. I do so on everything. The manual of arms for a LA is not nearly as clean as with other designs. Not easy to unload and restage after you have loaded the chamber. Maybe less so with the Winchesters, but certainly not the Marlins.

[vaspence]

3823

Trapper 94 AE in .45 Colt, no safety. I like the half cock but the crossbolt safety wouldn't bother me. I haven't had any issue with leaving the rifle loaded while hunting. It's a cool gun I was happy to find, it pairs well with my 25 or Blackhawk convertible.

[GJM]

The Benelli M2 is particularly handy for loading and unloading the chamber.

I probably feel best about the model 70, with the safety in the back position locking the bolt, for chambered carry. That said, up here in Alaska between traveling as a pack of three, and in and out of planes and boats, we carry condition three unless stalking game or threatened. Although, in the tent at night, we have a loaded chamber on the long gun.

We have discussed this, and I respect both sides of the argument on chamber carry. That is just the practice my wife and I have settled on. Pretty common with many locals here.

[GJM]

My second most favorite lever gun photo:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/DSC00561Small.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/DSC00561Small.jpg.html)

[Malamute]

And this brings me to one reason why I never choose a levergun for anything serious. I like to carry chamber loaded. I do so on everything. The manual of arms for a LA is not nearly as clean as with other designs. Not easy to unload and restage after you have loaded the chamber. Maybe less so with the Winchesters, but certainly not the Marlins.

Chamber loaded with the half cock safeties is a matter of preference. It is possible for one to fire if dropped or struck hard on the hammer, shearing the trigger or sear notch. I tend not to have a round chambered when in vehicles no matter what. With a dog(s) in the vehicle most of the time, I prefer that, as well as the possibility of a wreck. Just me. If things look interesting, like the dogs on high alert looking at the thick stuff nearby, I'll chamber a round.

I do agree about the Winchester type action being easier to clear the chamber, and is one reason I tend to prefer them. The action can be run slowly enough to eject the chambered round without raising the carrier (lifter), or if its raised, it can be pushed back down with the little finger and the action closed. This is my practice when using small game loads, leaving the mag loaded and single loading the light loads. Theres a part that can be polished a bit to help closing the action after having it open and not chambering a round.

Many of the 1960s and later Winchester 94's can be tough to load when theres rounds in the magazine. Some think its "normal" to have to empty it to load more. Many dont push the rounds all the way in until the last one has been loaded, thinking its the only way to get them loaded. with a properly functioning gun, it shouldnt be a problem to top them off at any time. The 86's are slick as can be to load or top off, the 92's are usually OK. Older 94's are also very slick to load, I never leave the rounds not fully pushed in. If they are balky, they can be fixed pretty easily. The rib on the back of the loading gate and the small camming surface at the back front edge is generally the problem and can be polished and generally deal with it. If anyone wants to know how, I'll explain and send them pics.

[SLG]

I'm curious to see the pics and explanation, if you don't mind. My guns don't have that problem, but I know of some that do.

In a vehicle, my long guns are chamber empty as well, unless it's being used as a weapon, and in my hand. Really only applies to M4's for me.

As VAspence said, he hasn't had any trouble with the half cock, but the issue is that they can shear and discharge when you least expect it. There are at least a few guys in the literature who have been killed or injured from dropping their guns on half cock.

[Malamute]

Do you want me to just post the pics here or PM them?

[GJM]

If someone routinely wants to carry a loaded chamber, I don't think a lever gun is a great choice, since neither the safety nor the half cock are very desirable.

[Malamute]

First couple pics are of the loading gate from a Winchester 94. The shiny part was polished to deburr and slick up the surface. That surface rides against the rim of the shell thats was either just loaded or next to feed. The angled surface cams the shell forward slightly to load another round. The rib along the back edge can also stand a little cleaning up on many of them. It doesnt take much, just remove most of the tool marks from the first part indicated (circled), and mainly deburr the rib father back (from the arrow back). Pre-war 94's load slick as can be. The finish on that part is all I can really tell is different as far as loading the magazine.

The toughest part of removing and replacing the loading gate is getting the screw back in square. The gate is bent for spring tension, and getting the screw started straight is the most important thing. I sometimes let the front of the gate get slightly out of its hole until I get the screw started a couple threads, then push it into place and finish torquing the screw carefully. They are small fine threads, dont get carried way torquing. I've been able to get the gate out and back in without taking the action aprt. if youre going to slick up the lever, then do the gate when its apart. Its easier to get the rear part of the gate in place for the screw to start straight. 94's arent hard to take apart once you know the basic procedure. I had my first one at about 13 or 14 and figured it out pretty quickly in the pre-youtube days of the '70's.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/Odds%20and%20ends%20online/bd27f62e-392e-465e-bb87-67b732bbdb3d_zps2bc44f79.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/Odds%20and%20ends%20online/2196da87-cb2a-42ab-9f8c-fdad795cffdf_zpsb37c7667.jpg

To help them close easier on an empty chamber, polishing the front edge of the lever, and the little bump at the front forward edge help.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/Odds%20and%20ends%20online/a0273152-7563-465f-9c3a-b3e47b4ecd1e_zpsdc473f04.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b387/Malamute/Odds%20and%20ends%20online/17c2dea1-19e0-4836-a7bb-608ad3cfc4ef_zps5f293c1e.jpg

[LittleLebowski]

Funny you mention Chiappa levers, I saw one of their lever "pistols" the other day, and now I have this ridiculous desire to SBR one.

You and me both.

[GJM]

For the niche of the 30-30 lever, I think a reasonable argument can be made the small CZ bolt in 7.62x39 is a better choice.

[SLG]

If someone routinely wants to carry a loaded chamber, I don't think a lever gun is a great choice, since neither the safety nor the half cock are very desirable.

And that's where I've been for many years. Still though, I've always loved LA's, and revisit the concept every couple of years to see if I can make it work. Shooting a 336 yesterday, with just the original rifle sights on it, was much better than I remember. It was hard to miss deer vitals out to 150 or so, and it was fast.

Malamute,

Thanks very much for the tutorial. I'll have to see if someone will let me experiment on their gun:-)

[GJM]

And that's where I've been for many years. Still though, I've always loved LA's, and revisit the concept every couple of years to see if I can make it work. Shooting a 336 yesterday, with just the original rifle sights on it, was much better than I remember. It was hard to miss deer vitals out to 150 or so, and it was fast.

Malamute,

Thanks very much for the tutorial. I'll have to see if someone will let me experiment on their gun:-)

The flip side is, if the question is what can a person carry that weighs six pounds, is flat and nearly as short as a 14 inch shotgun, and can defend against the largest bears in Alaska, the Marlin Guide Gun wins that hands down.

[BarryinIN]

I prefer bolts or semiautos, but seem to have several leverguns around.
My first gun was a Browning BL-22.
I have a Savage 99G takedown in .300 Savage (1928 mfg), a Winchester 1895 SRC in .30 Army (.30-40 Krag, 1910 mfg), a Winchester 1892 (1905 mfg) that had been converted to .357 sometime before I bought it, a Browning 71 .348 Win, and a Marlin 1895S .45-70. I traded off a Marlin 1894FG .41 Mag not too long ago.

[Wheeler]

I have a few lever actions. Three Winchester 94's and a BLR. I've never been concerned with carrying the '94 with a loaded chamber on half cock. The lever has to be pulled up tight to the receiver even on full cock to fire. Anytime I'm not in the woods it's carried chamber empty.

Comparing it to newer guns is disingenuous. It is a 122 year old design after all... I prefer the 94 action over most others as it can be 'combat loaded' much like a pump action shotgun. I've shot both my .357 and .30-30 in tactical rifle matches. It requires a bit more thought when running through 'run-and-gun' scenarios. The idea of making your shots count really comes to the forefront.

[Clobbersaurus]

Here's a few pics of my 1894.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC04029_zps3kwqms6y.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC04029_zps3kwqms6y.jpg.html)

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC04028_zpslkm9dk2t.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC04028_zpslkm9dk2t.jpg.html)

The hammer extension is a must IMO, even if you aren't using a scope. Gives much more control.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC04026_zpsojo79qdo.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC04026_zpsojo79qdo.jpg.html)

A pic with some of my other long guns that don't get used since I found this forum. Shotgun is 12.5", Bushy is 10.25" and the Marlin is 20". The Aimpoint micro with the standard riser would be a permanent addition to the Marlin if I shot it more. http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/clobbersauras/DSC04034_zpsp7cuspet.jpg (http://s143.photobucket.com/user/clobbersauras/media/DSC04034_zpsp7cuspet.jpg.html)

[Malamute]

For the niche of the 30-30 lever, I think a reasonable argument can be made the small CZ bolt in 7.62x39 is a better choice.

I agree, a reasonable argument can be made for the little CZ's. I had one in 223, and had trouble adjusting to some of its idiosyncrasies and ended up selling it. Purely my problem, not the guns.


And that's where I've been for many years. Still though, I've always loved LA's, and revisit the concept every couple of years to see if I can make it work. Shooting a 336 yesterday, with just the original rifle sights on it, was much better than I remember. It was hard to miss deer vitals out to 150 or so, and it was fast.

Malamute,

Thanks very much for the tutorial. I'll have to see if someone will let me experiment on their gun:-)

No problem.


The flip side is, if the question is what can a person carry that weighs six pounds, is flat and nearly as short as a 14 inch shotgun, and can defend against the largest bears in Alaska, the Marlin Guide Gun wins that hands down.

The Marlins are great guns, and fit that description well. I found that I tended to carry the 86 carbine more after I got it, though its a bit longer and heavier than the Guide Guns. I dont have the thick stuff like you have to deal with or i may have chosen differently. The 86 carbine ends up being the same length as a 94 carbine and weighs a bit more.


I have a few lever actions. Three Winchester 94's and a BLR. I've never been concerned with carrying the '94 with a loaded chamber on half cock. The lever has to be pulled up tight to the receiver even on full cock to fire. Anytime I'm not in the woods it's carried chamber empty.

Comparing it to newer guns is disingenuous. It is a 122 year old design after all... I prefer the 94 action over most others as it can be 'combat loaded' much like a pump action shotgun. I've shot both my .357 and .30-30 in tactical rifle matches. It requires a bit more thought when running through 'run-and-gun' scenarios. The idea of making your shots count really comes to the forefront.

The trigger block that the lever pushes does stop the trigger from being pulled, but in the case of dropping the gun and shearing the sear notch or trigger tip, it wont help. Some have stronger springs than others. Many think of them as like a grip safety on a 1911, but I dont think that was the original intent (though they seem to have morphed into one). On older 94's, once the lever is closed, the block stays pushed in. Its mainly to keep it from firing out of battery I believe.

I'm less concerned about a round in the chamber if its in my hand, I carry a light round in the chamber if bird hunting or in snake country, but if I set it down or get in a vehicle, I tend towards an empty chamber.

3824

[Cookie Monster]

I've got two Grizzly Custom lever guns I've been wanting to sell, you guys are making me question. Damn.

[serialsolver]

I've had a bunch of lever guns over the years and really like them. They seem to be more left hand friendly. I'm left eye dominant so I shot long guns left handed and handguns right hand. I prefer the 30-30 cause in some small towns that caliber is easy to get. I always carried them chamber empty unless I'm hunting. This lever gun I have kept and won't let go and if I only had one rifle this would be it. A Winchester m55 take down in 30wcf made in 1929. It has a flip up sight on the barrel sighted in at 50yrds and the tang peep sight sighted in at 125yrds. I use hornady leverlution ammunition. I really need to get better pictures but here's what I got.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/shooters013.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/shooters013.jpg.html)

I roll it up in a leather wrap.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/shooters014.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/shooters014.jpg.html)

So it fits in my backpack. Or I tell folks that ask that it's ceremonial Indian items that I can't talk about outside of the tribe. (Not really but I have thought about it)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/shooters015.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/shooters015.jpg.html)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

^^^ that's freaking cool.

[SLG]

There is nothing disingenuous about comparing a LA to any other long gun, for actual use. Unless you think that means really smart, or something like that.

The issue is to compare them and determine which is most appropriate for me, for my needs, today. I love lever guns, and mostly enjoy shooting and carrying them, but compared to other designs, I find they tend to come up short. because I like them so much, I tend to re-evaluate them every so often. As I do everything else I use or wish/might/want to use.

Shot the Gunsite Police rifle today, as well as the Brockman 45-70. The Winny has quite a bit more recoil than my longer heavier 336, but it is very sweet to carry and maneuver. The 45-70 is also a dream to handle, but the recoil of the leverevolution was not that much fun, and switching to HSM bear loads was pretty unpleasant. Compare that to the 40 12g slugs I shot afterwards, through a WC 870 and a mostly stock Remington Marine Magnum. 1600 fps and they were pleasant to shoot compared to the 45-70's. Also very fast to hit a 12" plate at 100 yards. The WC has a T1 on it and the Marine Magnum has a Ghost ring. Both work really well, and on a nice day on the range, they are a bit of a toss up. The aimpoint gives tons of advantages off the range though, and even on the range, it felt a little like a video game. Or the main gun on an M1:-)

[GJM]

Not sure if your Guide Gun has one, but I find the Limbsaver pad makes an enormous difference with heavy loads, like the Garrett 420+P I use.

[SLG]

I have a Limbsaver on some guns, and it does work well. The Brockman has a 1" pachy on it. Maybe I should switch it?

[GJM]

I have a Limbsaver on some guns, and it does work well. The Brockman has a 1" pachy on it. Maybe I should switch it?

I did on the 16 inch Guide Guns, and while it isn't something I notice in the field on an animal, it made a big enough difference just shooting that I went to the trouble to switch a few.

[Wheeler]

There is nothing disingenuous about comparing a LA to any other long gun, for actual use. Unless you think that means really smart, or something like that.

The issue is to compare them and determine which is most appropriate for me, for my needs, today. I love lever guns, and mostly enjoy shooting and carrying them, but compared to other designs, I find they tend to come up short. because I like them so much, I tend to re-evaluate them every so often. As I do everything else I use or wish/might/want to use.

Shot the Gunsite Police rifle today, as well as the Brockman 45-70. The Winny has quite a bit more recoil than my longer heavier 336, but it is very sweet to carry and maneuver. The 45-70 is also a dream to handle, but the recoil of the leverevolution was not that much fun, and switching to HSM bear loads was pretty unpleasant. Compare that to the 40 12g slugs I shot afterwards, through a WC 870 and a mostly stock Remington Marine Magnum. 1600 fps and they were pleasant to shoot compared to the 45-70's. Also very fast to hit a 12" plate at 100 yards. The WC has a T1 on it and the Marine Magnum has a Ghost ring. Both work really well, and on a nice day on the range, they are a bit of a toss up. The aimpoint gives tons of advantages off the range though, and even on the range, it felt a little like a video game. Or the main gun on an M1:-)

I'm well aware of what the word means, which is why I used it. If using a lever action doesn't work for you then I'm certainly not suggesting that you're wrong. What I am suggesting is that it boils down to a perception and training issue. Conceptually (yes I know what that means as well,) it's no different than the training differences between a SA, SF, and TDA pistol. YMMV of course.

[SLG]

I'll have to do that. The plus P garrett is equivalent to the HSM load I was shooting in weight and velocity. Garrett's one step down load looks like it would work as well or better for me.

[GJM]

I dig that takedown Winchester!

Here are some of our lever guns.

On the right is my wife's #1 Marlin. She used it to harvest a brown bear at 34 yards.

On the left is my #2 Marlin. Just added the Aimpoint this year.

In the middle is my wife's modernized lever. It is a .450 Marlin, on a controlled feed left hand action, starting a 350 grain Barnes at about 2,150 fps, near .458 WM lite performance.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image.jpg1_zps036fr2zg.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image.jpg1_zps036fr2zg.jpg.html)

[WDW]

I just picked up one of the Henry Big Boy Steel .44 magnums. It's been a blast so far. It's slow to reload with its plunger tube mag, but it has no cross bolt safety & seems very well made.

[JHC]

My 16" Lyman peep sighted Win 94 30-30 is my favorite rifle. I'd part with my Noveske Recce or BCM LW middie before I'd part with it. Rifles don't factor in much to my defensive needs though.

[Malamute]

I prefer the 30-30 cause in some small towns that caliber is easy to get.

This lever gun I have kept and won't let go and if I only had one rifle this would be it. A Winchester m55 take down in 30wcf made in 1929.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee179/serialsolver/shooters013.jpg (http://s233.photobucket.com/user/serialsolver/media/shooters013.jpg.html)

I roll it up in a leather wrap... so it fits in my backpack.

I like that I can find 30-30 loads about anywhere. I cant recall ever buying any from a store, but it is nice to know you can resupply relatively easily if need be.

I really like the takedown 55. An old friend had one. I dont think we ever shot it.

I've been thinking on how to make a practical folding stock on a 94 carbine, perhaps the short carbine. Havent come to a conclusion on exactly how yet, but want it to be as clean looking as possible. Been tending towards the hinge/latch of a Law Tactical folder, cut back and welded to plates screwed to the stock in the cut joint. Another project,....



The issue is to compare them and determine which is most appropriate for me, for my needs, today. I love lever guns, and mostly enjoy shooting and carrying them, but compared to other designs, I find they tend to come up short. because I like them so much, I tend to re-evaluate them every so often. As I do everything else I use or wish/might/want to use.

Thats a good outlook. if they are practical and realistic, cool, if not, use what is. I like all sorts of guns, but older ones, and older levers and classic bolt actions most. In my use, I'm more likely to have or need a gun for critters than people, but figure if need be, a hunting/walkaround gun could fill in. I tend to keep fair amounts of ammo in the vehicle. As I understand it, hunting rifle loads seem to be decisive in effect when used in defensive situations.


My 16" Lyman peep sighted Win 94 30-30 is my favorite rifle. I'd part with my Noveske Recce or BCM LW middie before I'd part with it. Rifles don't factor in much to my defensive needs though.

When selling stuff to pay bills the last couple years, the levers are at the bottom of the list. A couple have gone, a couple are not part of the consideration.

[SLG]

Thats a good outlook. if they are practical and realistic, cool, if not, use what is. I like all sorts of guns, but older ones, and older levers and classic bolt actions most. In my use, I'm more likely to have or need a gun for critters than people, but figure if need be, a hunting/walkaround gun could fill in. I tend to keep fair amounts of ammo in the vehicle. As I understand it, hunting rifle loads seem to be decisive in effect when used in defensive situations.

Malamute,

Just to be clear, I'm not diss'n the lever because of any self defense/protection issues in anyway at all. I agree completely with the above quote. It's just that I am wedded to certain performance standards (literally and figuratively:-) Any gun that doesn't allow me to perform as I want becomes problematic for the more practical side of me. In the case of the LA, there are a few things working against it compared to a proper bolt gun or AR.

The design doesn't handle recoil as well as more modern stuff.

The design doesn't allow the trigger finger to be positioned as well as more modern stuff. The pistol grip stocks are better in the regard, but not great.

The stocks don't allow optics as well as other stuff. I have some custom Brockman stocks on my 45-70 to help with this issue, but they only go so far, and are not as good for the trigger finger as the pistol grip stocks.

Prone is a bit awkward.

Slinging up is not as useful because of the design.

Overall they are much less rugged than the others.

The overall safety aspect is not as good. This makes carry and rapid deployment more problematic.

I'm probably leaving something out, but that's most of it. Note that none of that is defense specific, to my mind. It just has to do with good shooting. Not that you can't do good shooting with them, but they are not as user friendly, efficient or easy to get high end performance out of compared to the others.

Even so, with all of those "flaws" I still love them and enjoy packing them around, and will likely continue doing my calculus every few years. One of these years, the pendulum may shift. No matter what, I've really enjoyed shooting them the last few days, as well as talking about them with you guys.

[Malamute]

I didnt take it as criticism, just acknowledging your equation of what works for you.

All of what you said is right, no question there. In my rural world, they just fill a use niche that fits my needs, and I'm pretty familiar with them. I also like that pretty much nobody gives a second thought when seeing a lever gun. As I said elsewhere, I'd venture a guess I wouldnt have much trouble getting a ride if I were hitch hiking with a lever gun in this area. We all have to figure out what our priorities are, and decide whats enough to fill them (theres probably always something that may be better if money is no object). For the most part, levers are enough for what I do.

One aspect they really excel at for me is carry. I carry in hand when out in the field mostly. My thumb overlaps my middle fingernail when wrapped around a 94 receiver. I love how thin/small they are.

[Jakus]

Anyone have any experience with the Henry 45-70? I've been looking at the one with factory XS aperture sights. I understand the criticism of loading at the mag tube vs having a loading gate. I'm curious if they are a good new gun option. My brief look into the 45-70 world has me a little worried about a new Marlin/Remington gun from a quality standpoint.

[JHC]

Anyone have any experience with the Henry 45-70? I've been looking at the one with factory XS aperture sights. I understand the criticism of loading at the mag tube vs having a loading gate. I'm curious if they are a good new gun option. My brief look into the 45-70 world has me a little worried about a new Marlin/Remington gun from a quality standpoint.

The only Henry I've fired was a .22 but in fit, finish and trigger it put all my Marlins to shame incl Model 39 Century Limited I've had since 1972.

[LSP552]

This thread is going to cost me money. I feel like a Communist, having sold my last model 94 20 years ago.........

Some beautiful rifles in this thread, thanks for sharing.

[JHC]

This thread is going to cost me money. I feel like a Communist, having sold my last model 94 20 years ago.........

Some beautiful rifles in this thread, thanks for sharing.

"Communist faggot" is what Hackathorn called me in a class for not presently owning a 1911. So I bought one; from him.

[Jeep]

"Communist faggot" is what Hackathorn called me in a class for not presently owning a 1911. So I bought one; from him.

I've heard that same term lovingly used by some SF/SOG guys I used to know. I never realized how effective a sales pitch it could be, though.

[HCM]

A suppressed lever gun from book of faces:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152693070742190&set=oa.10153698489489867&type=1&theater

Interesting idea but I wonder how much gas to the face you get?

[DocGKR]

I used to have a lot of .45-70 lever guns. Don't have most of them anymore.

Couldn't find a single defensive situation where the .45-70 worked better than a 12 ga. with Brenneke slugs.

Since a I shoot a lot more with an 870, I stopped using the .45-70's as wilderness defensive weapons and just use the 870's...

[GLB]

I used to have a lot of .45-70 lever guns. Don't have most of them anymore.

Couldn't find a single defensive situation where the .45-70 worked better than a 12 ga. with Brenneke slugs.

Since a I shoot a lot more with an 870, I stopped using the .45-70's as wilderness defensive weapons and just use the 870's...
I agree with the Brenneke slugs. They are widely used here in Alaska for that purpose. I would add however to favor the 45/70 based off of extended range and accuracy. If we shoot a Brown Bear for example in self defense and turn it but do not kill it, there is an unwritten rule/duty/responsibility here in Alaska to put it down, if able. To leave a wounded bear is very dangerous for others. Fish and Game will need to be notified of course but the shooter may have the best opportunity to finish the job. Keep in mind that most think of bear encounters as deep in the wilderness but in areas such as mine we have large Brown Bears that roam in and near our little community.

[Lost River]

For the niche of the 30-30 lever, I think a reasonable argument can be made the small CZ bolt in 7.62x39 is a better choice.

I have both.

My 30-30 is a 16" straight stock 336.

I have gone back and forth mentally about which one is superior.

I tend to side towards the CZ carbine.

The CZ is much easier to reload, as it has detachable magazines.
These days a person can actually purchase pretty decent soft point hunting ammo, if one chooses not to reload.
Federal, Winchester,Corbon and Hornady all make hunting type ammo, not to mention all the imported stuff.
Imported COMBLOC stuff makes for some cheap practice, though I have had some fails to fire with cheap TULA HP ammo.

I really need to spend some time with the 30-30. I picked up some hard cast projectiles for it, in anticipation of small game hunting, but just have not gotten around to loading them up yet.
I want to like the 30-30, but that vast majority of the type of big game hunting I do, a lever would be at a distinct disadvantage, due to the generally open terrain I normally hunt.
My inner John Wayne just cannot let the levers go though.


http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/048-2.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/048-2.jpg.html)



The one lever I will NEVER let go is my old Marlin Mountie 22LR. It is without question my favorite lever gun, and favorite long gun period.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/montanaIdaho024.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/montanaIdaho024.jpg.html)

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/dec2006212.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/dec2006212.jpg.html)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/dec2006061-1.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/dec2006061-1.jpg.html)

[GJM]

Great pictures!

A neat thing about the CZ, is it is very PC, and in areas where a long gun can not be carried loaded in a vehicle, it is, as you point out, very fast to load and recharge.

I have a 16 inch Marlin .22 lever. Love it and the take down feature.

[Malamute]

I have gone back and forth mentally about which one is superior.

I tend to side towards the CZ carbine...

I really need to spend some time with the 30-30. I picked up some hard cast projectiles for it, in anticipation of small game hunting, but just have not gotten around to loading them up yet.
I want to like the 30-30, but that vast majority of the type of big game hunting I do, a lever would be at a distinct disadvantage, due to the generally open terrain I normally hunt...

This may be a primary difference in use and perceived usability for different folks. When I hunt, specifically go out intending to shoot larger game, I use a scoped bolt gun. When I'm going to town, or out walking in many areas I like, I like having a rifle along because I may want one, but have no specific intention of shooting it. The levers carry very well, and are accurate enough for a medium range (200-250 yards) general purpose gun. Yes, I like bolts and others, and would like to work up a shorter general purpose bolt action for a knock around gun, but bolts still just dont carry as nicely. I carry a scoped bolt gun in some places simply because I want the range capability. For a walk around gun, its basically to cover my dog(s).

Extra-light loads in rifles work great for small game and grouse (and renegade mice in the yard). I dont shoot much small game any more, but do go grouse hunting a bit. Its rifle or pistol shooting, the birds are sitting in trees looking at you. A 30-30, 348 or 45-70 with extra-light round ball loads makes little noise and doesnt tear up game. I also have a real rifle in hand in case I bump into something larger I may feel concern about, which concerned me a bit when using a 22 rifle. The levers are great at that. I never really warmed up to shotguns much. Great for all sorts of things, but shooting clays is about all I do with them. When I shoot clays, I have access to Browning Citoris and Winchester 101's etc.

Like many things in the guns and shooting game, what works well for one person and use may not even be on the radar for another. Also, like the passion of the gun thread, using something you really like and enjoy means something. Not every aspect of life has to be starkly rational, and we dont always have to have the most perfect tool for every job. I feel more motivated to shoot and use things I really like more than things that may be great at what they do, but dont really hold much interest for me in general. Sitting on the side of a mountain with an 1886 in hand makes me smile more than other things I've carried. :) Of course YMMV.

ETA:

Great pictures!

A neat thing about the CZ, is it is very PC, and in areas where a long gun can not be carried loaded in a vehicle, it is, as you point out, very fast to load and recharge.

I have a 16 inch Marlin .22 lever. Love it and the take down feature.

Indeed, they are great pictures!

I love the Marlin 39 also. I used to take mine down and roll it up in my bedroll when I was motorcycle travelling and nomadding. Its a true classic. Used to shoot scads of bunnies and squirrels with it.

[SLG]

Just got off the range. I think I'm done with my levers for now, and am back to my 6.5G. Shoots great, carries pretty easily, does anything I want from zero to +/- 1000 yards. Hard to think of a more general purpose gun that that. Now I'm thinking an even lighter 6.5G bolt gun would be nice to have. In a full weight gun, hard to justify the little G, might as well go with the 6.5 Creedmore in that case. Also, 10g of Unique behind a 250g Keith is giving me 1211 fps from my 5" 629. Also gave me an eight inch group at 100 yards.

[GJM]

I think the shotgun is situational. In densely settled areas, or thick brush, it feels right to me. Out on the open tundra or in the mountain west, the shotty feels very range limited.

[DocGKR]

At 100 yds, my iron sighted 16" .45-70's grouped about the same as my 18" 870's with T1's--10 rds in a 6" circle. I simply could not justify keeping the .45-70's, especially given my much greater familiarity and practice schedule with the 870's. Again--these were defensive tools for use at ranges under 100 yds, not hunting rifles. I also like the fact that my 18" 870's have 6 shots available in the tube vs. only 4 in the 1895's.

[GJM]

As set-up by Jim Brockman, my Guide Guns hold five or six in the tube, and shoot 1 to 1.5 inches at 100 yards with Garrett 420+P ammo.

In the 50-150 yard range, my .45-70 Guide Guns dominate the shotty, between their better accuracy, better triggers, and flatter trajectory. In 30-30, they dominate from 50-200. Inside 25, I would take a M2 full of Brenneke slugs any day.

[SLG]

As set-up by Jim Brockman, my Guide Guns hold five or six in the tube, and shoot 1 to 1.5 inches at 100 yards with Garrett 420+P ammo.

In the 50-150 yard range, my .45-70 Guide Guns dominate the shotty, between their better accuracy, better triggers, and flatter trajectory. In 30-30, they dominate from 50-200. Inside 25, I would take a M2 full of Brenneke slugs any day.

Yeah, but...how often do you actually choose a 4570 over something else?

[GJM]

Yeah, but...how often do you actually choose a 4570 over something else?

It is my first choice for packing meat, backing up my wife on bear, and for her backing me up. There are numerous people in Alaska, probably even out there this minute, hunting bear, moose in thick cover, and even deer with Guide Guns. I would be surprised if there is a single person out there now, hunting with a shotgun.

At the Gunsite Backcountry course, which was designed for gov't field workers in bear country, the two long gun school solutions are the shotgun and .45-70 lever gun. As I said previously, 25 yards and in, I would take a M2, and beyond that, the Guide Gun. It really gets down to personal preference and your assessment of the challenge.

[SLG]

So for packing meat, does that mean that you hunted with another gun, then went home and retrieved the lever for hauling the meat out? When backing up your wife, or vice versa, I assume that means on a dedicated bear hunt? Are you using the 45-70 then as a hunting gun, or another gun for the actual hunting?

I'm sure you're right about no one hunting in AK right now with a shotgun, but how many people are shooting bears further than 100 yards with a 45-70 anyway? Most of the bear hunts I have heard about first hand involved 30-06 and the like, maybe up to .375 or so. Shots out to 250 or so, iirc. Defending yourself against the bear could certainly be done just as easily with the shotgun, no? Even out to 100 yards, my shotguns are plenty accurate to hunt with.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just asking questions. Personal preference is no doubt the biggest factor these days, and there is nothing wrong with that. I prefer to shoot shotguns, but I prefer to carry lever guns.

[GJM]

So for packing meat, does that mean that you hunted with another gun, then went home and retrieved the lever for hauling the meat out? When backing up your wife, or vice versa, I assume that means on a dedicated bear hunt? Are you using the 45-70 then as a hunting gun, or another gun for the actual hunting?

I'm sure you're right about no one hunting in AK right now with a shotgun, but how many people are shooting bears further than 100 yards with a 45-70 anyway? Most of the bear hunts I have heard about first hand involved 30-06 and the like, maybe up to .375 or so. Shots out to 250 or so, iirc. Defending yourself against the bear could certainly be done just as easily with the shotgun, no? Even out to 100 yards, my shotguns are plenty accurate to hunt with.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just asking questions. Personal preference is no doubt the biggest factor these days, and there is nothing wrong with that. I prefer to shoot shotguns, but I prefer to carry lever guns.

While I don't try for this situation, it has taken us up to four days to pack out a moose. I commonly have a second long gun in the aircraft, for packing meat and defense around camp, and that is typically a Guide Gun or shotgun. Once the animal is down, I want short and light for carrying, and powerful to dissuade a bear.

Our shotguns are likely very different than the typical shotgun found in Alaska, which is a beater, left in the bottom of boats, treated roughly, and most likely with a bead sight and an unknown zero. My neighbors at our remote cabin, never even take their shotgun off their ATV -- it stays on the rack for the season.

I think as typically configured, in the average guy's hands, the shotgun is good to 25 yards, and the Guide Gun to 125-150 yards. I like shotguns and lever guns, and see a place for both.

[JHC]

I grew up hunting with pumps and levers. In a pinch I'd rather run that lever than a pump.

[HCM]

Does anyone here have experience with the Chiappa 92 Winchester copies? I saw one today in .357 and it appeared VERY nice.

http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2604

[SLG]

While I don't try for this situation, it has taken us up to four days to pack out a moose. I commonly have a second long gun in the aircraft, for packing meat and defense around camp, and that is typically a Guide Gun or shotgun. Once the animal is down, I want short and light for carrying, and powerful to dissuade a bear.

Our shotguns are likely very different than the typical shotgun found in Alaska, which is a beater, left in the bottom of boats, treated roughly, and most likely with a bead sight and an unknown zero. My neighbors at our remote cabin, never even take their shotgun off their ATV -- it stays on the rack for the season.

I think as typically configured, in the average guy's hands, the shotgun is good to 25 yards, and the Guide Gun to 125-150 yards. I like shotguns and lever guns, and see a place for both.

I definitely get that, but when did we start talking about the average guy?

[HCM]

PSA - crimp your 45-70 hand loads.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/08/27/reloading-fail-psa-dont-forget-crimp-warning-graphic-injury-images/

[Robinson]

I've always liked lever guns. I used to own a couple Marlins chambered for .357Mag and they were quite fun -- and handy around the farm when I lived in rural Ohio.

I now own two .30-30 Marlins -- one is the 336XLR which would make a fine deer rifle if I ever got back to hunting. The other is a shortened 336 that I have sighted in for the Federal 125gr JHP ammunition. This is a very accurate round in that rifle and I believe it would make for a decent defensive setup.

I have always installed ghost ring sights on my levers, I don't like to scope them because IMO it ruins the handling characteristics of the rifle. Other rifle types are better for using optical sights in my mind.

[SMD]

I've really enjoyed this thread. Add me to the list of lever gun users. Like others have said, it's rare that I grab mine when I have a distinct purpose in mind. I use a scoped Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 for hunting and a BCM mid-length for home defense and the occasional three-gun match.

Outside of those specialized endeavors, when I think it might be nice to have a rifle along I always grab my Marlin 336 in 30-30. It doesn't draw attention sitting beside me in the truck or leaned up against a tree in camp. It's low-maintenance, cheap to feed, and required no modifications beyond peep sights. And yet, it's a platform that can deal with most reasonable problems out to a respectable distance.

I live in Washington state where normal capacity ARs are perfectly legal without the sort of modifications necessary in some states. I also won't be surprised if that changes at some point soon. In that case, I feel like the lever gun has a lot of value as a sleeper defensive weapon. There are distinct downsides, of course. But for someone like me who can't handle a shotgun anymore (years of rugby, rock climbing, and rotator cuff surgeries have left my strongside shoulder a hardware-laden wreck), it's a decent alternative.

[coldcase1984]

Got a first year Guide Gun with the ports I've been threatening to have bobbed to 16.1 inches for close to a decade. Always something else I'd rather have to spend the $150 gunsmith fee. Thinking about just doing it myself and finishing the muzzle with a crown cutter myself.

I've not used it in the field since killing a couple does more than a decade ago. My ears rang for a week due to the ports. I recently got an NFA Trust and may take it a little shorter for S&Gs. A 12-13 in. Trapper would be a handy hoot.

[Totem Polar]

Not much expertise to add, but I note that I did not see Grizzly Custom mentioned in this thread yet:

http://www.grizzlycustom.com/pagephotos_old/grizzly_custom_guns_backpacker_scout_marlin_packag e_lever_action_sbr_short_barreled_rifle_5.jpg


http://www.grizzlycustom.com/pagephotos_old/grizzly_custom_guns_sbr_marlin_1894_45_colt_packag e_ghost_ring_sight_3.jpg

[SLG]

Took the David Clay 1894 out tonight. If there is a handier version of a lever gun, I don't know what it is. hard to believe the gun has a 16" barrel, and it balances perfectly. Zero'd at 25 for .38 wadcutters, it holds 11 in the tube and still hits steel at 100 without issue. Perfect for small game and defense, it can be loaded up with hot 357 for 30-30 level power. Nice package. Anyone know of Clay is still in business? Haven't been able to find any current contact info.

[GJM]

Took the David Clay 1894 out tonight. If there is a handier version of a lever gun, I don't know what it is. hard to believe the gun has a 16" barrel, and it balances perfectly. Zero'd at 25 for .38 wadcutters, it holds 11 in the tube and still hits steel at 100 without issue. Perfect for small game and defense, it can be loaded up with hot 357 for 30-30 level power. Nice package. Anyone know of Clay is still in business? Haven't been able to find any current contact info.

Let's see a picture of it.

I know of some guys in Wyoming who were supposedly, very successfully shooting elk with .357 lever guns, using LBT cast bullets. Sort of a mini Guide Gun/Garrett set-up.

[hufnagel]

http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u356/tehsota/Firearms/3e6b5fa8-dfce-4363-b6c5-63ac643e2cf7.jpg

Hi, my name's John, and i'm a Henry-o-holic. :D

Left to Right...
Henry Big Boy H006M (.357mag/.38spl)
Henry Big Boy carbine H006MR (.357mag/.38spl)
Henry Golden Boy H004 (.22s/l/lr) (kid's)
Henry Golden Boy H004 (.22s/l/lr) (mine)
Henry Youth H001Y (.22s/l/lr)
Henry Survival AR-7 (.22s/l/lr)
Mossberg 500 54169 12ga with 18.5" and 28" barrels

All the Henry's except the youth and survival have custom serial #s.

[SLG]

Picked up a HPG stock pack recently. Put it on my 30-30 336. Very light, very solid, carries as much ammo as I want, securely but easy to retrieve. A lot of thought clearly went into the pack. I'm going to order a few more for the other levers, and then I will experiment with putting some closed cell foam under one for a bolt gun. I have a ton of stockpacks that I have used over the years. This one is by far my favorite.

[JHC]

Picked up a HPG stock pack recently. Put it on my 30-30 336. Very light, very solid, carries as much ammo as I want, securely but easy to retrieve. A lot of thought clearly went into the pack. I'm going to order a few more for the other levers, and then I will experiment with putting some closed cell foam under one for a bolt gun. I have a ton of stockpacks that I have used over the years. This one is by far my favorite.

Is that HPG, Hill People Gear?

Disregard, I found it on their site and will order one for my 94 directly. Great find.

[Gray222]

So....anyone have a lever gun for a car gun?

[JR1572]

I used to have a lot of .45-70 lever guns. Don't have most of them anymore.

Couldn't find a single defensive situation where the .45-70 worked better than a 12 ga. with Brenneke slugs.

Since a I shoot a lot more with an 870, I stopped using the .45-70's as wilderness defensive weapons and just use the 870's...

This post just saved me money.

Thanks DocGKR.

JR1572

[JHC]

So....anyone have a lever gun for a car gun?

A 94 fits perfectly behind the rear seats of my quad cab Tacoma and has ridden there for extended periods. In normal day to day commuting I hate to keep a long gun there lest I total another vehicle in ATL traffic.

[DPris]

My Guide Gun loaded with Garretts and a 14-inch 870 loaded with 00 Buck ride in a custom leather scabbard under the ATV roof on every outing.
Between them, I can handle anything I could run into out in the wilds.

I've had a Chiappa here, it was nice.
Have a Brockman .44 Mag Marlin, the guy does great work.

The Grizzly versions are intriguing, but expensive.

Grandpa's 1951 Model 94 will be passed on down when I die.

Have a 16-inch USRAC 94 in .30-30 that's a very handy ground-pounder.

One Henry .45-70 here (steel), one (brass) waiting at the dealer to be picked up.
One steel Henry .44 Mag here.

Leverguns are classic Americana.
Denis

[Malamute]

So....anyone have a lever gun for a car gun?

Yes.

Always have at least one in the vehicle whenever I'm in it. The short 94 Winchester is handy laid against the front of the passenger seat. Belt of cartridges on the tunnel under gloves or hat, another couple boxes handy up front, a few more in the back. Larger caliber lever when going up in the mountains, usually 348 or 45-70.

[SteveB]

So....anyone have a lever gun for a car gun?

Not any more. While a lever gun is nice and flat, easy to carry and handy, for me it is the slowest action and the slowest to reload. My car gun in PC Connecticut is a CZ 527 carbine in 7.62X39; very fast action and easy reloading with 5-round mags.

3853

[DPris]

What butt cuff are you using for that spare mag?

[JHC]

My Guide Gun loaded with Garretts and a 14-inch 870 loaded with 00 Buck ride in a custom leather scabbard under the ATV roof on every outing.
Between them, I can handle anything I could run into out in the wilds.

I've had a Chiappa here, it was nice.
Have a Brockman .44 Mag Marlin, the guy does great work.

The Grizzly versions are intriguing, but expensive.

Grandpa's 1951 Model 94 will be passed on down when I die.

Have a 16-inch USRAC 94 in .30-30 that's a very handy ground-pounder.

One Henry .45-70 here (steel), one (brass) waiting at the dealer to be picked up.
One steel Henry .44 Mag here.

Leverguns are classic Americana.
Denis

I was pretty much awestruck by the build quality and trigger of the only Henry I've shot.

[DPris]

They do tend to work. :)
Denis

[GJM]

What butt cuff are you using for that spare mag?

I can answer, since that was my rifle for a number of years -- custom from Jim Brockman. That gun is crazy fast to shoot and a total hoot. Very fast bolt action.

[DPris]

Thanks, had not looked at his site lately.

I've had a couple 527s here, they were very hard to return. :)
I still hear one calling my name faintly on quiet nights....
Denis

[Malamute]

Some lever action fun, starting with post #24. 38-55 Marlin at 200, 800, and 1000 yards, and shooting through a cow and milk jugs.

Posts by Whit Spurzon,

http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/showthread.php/157994-Winchester-1894-38-55-Reloading-Help/page2

[GJM]

Funny story on the CZ. It was very accurate, and had a set trigger you activated by pushing forward on the trigger.

At a Jeff Cooper reunion at Whitington Center, there was some shooting at steel. I plopped down prone, used the set trigger, and first shot hit a U.S. popper at 300 yards with "Scoutski." I looked over at Jeff Cooper, and he said "7.62x39, hmmm, you better hope the paint on that popper isn't too thick." Oh, well.

[Lost River]

That ScoutSki is a pretty sweet looking little setup.

[HCM]

So.... After years of searching, I traded into this today: 1895 Saddle Ring Carbine with Lyman receiver peep in 30 U.S. aka 30-40 Krag.

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_93781.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_86001.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_49171.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_66001.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_98741.jpg

[Malamute]

Very cool! I like the 95's.

It looks like somebody swapped buttstocks for a crescent. Most carbines had the semi-crescent carbine type. If its uncomfortable to shoot, you may want to look for a used carbine butt to fit it. I believe they interchange with 94s and 92's of that period (pre-war).

[dbateman]

WOW that 95 is a nice looking levergun, I guess you haven't had time to shoot it yet ?

I'm a bit of a 30-40 Krag fan, although it's a pretty uncommon round over here.

[Little Creek]

I have two Marlin 1894 carbines with 16" barrels. One is a .357 Magnum and the other is a 44 Magnum. They were made a couple of decades ago, before the QC issues. I put XS scout scope bases and Leupold Scout Scopes on both. They are big fun. I took JLW's Social Levergun class with the 357. I was continuously topping off the magazine. I have an Action Targets dueling tree. It is fun shooting against my college age nephew on the dueling tree using reduced loads in the 44 against 38+P. It drives this youngster crazy he cannot beat the old man.

[Hambo]

So.... After years of searching, I traded into this today: 1895 Saddle Ring Carbine with Lyman receiver peep in 30 U.S. aka 30-40 Krag.

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr324/hcm3156/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_93781.jpg


Daaaaamn, that's a lever gun!

[JHC]

That is pegging the cool meter.

[HCM]

WOW that 95 is a nice looking levergun, I guess you haven't had time to shoot it yet ?

I'm a bit of a 30-40 Krag fan, although it's a pretty uncommon round over here.

I've always liked the 1895's. I had one of the Browning reproduction rifles a few years back but the SRC is the one I've always wanted. I haven't gotten to shoot it yet. Hopefully this weekend. I have a sporterized M1892 Krag bolt action I inherited from my dad so I already have some 30-40 ammunition on hand.

You can still find the ammunition here but availability is an issue. it's something they produce a batch of once per year and when it's gone, it's gone.

[HCM]

Daaaaamn, that's a lever gun!

If you were a bad ass gun fight'n Texas Lawman 100 years ago you likely ran a '95 Winchester.

The Rangers still run "big boy" rules WRT firearms choices, our local Ranger runs a 10.5" Noveske SBR.

[Brian T]

I have 3 and all are Marlin 336s in thuddy-thuddy.

Two are basic 336s,nothing secial. One is in excellent shape and shoots quite well. The other is a different story. I bought it from a co-worker who needed $250 badly. He never shot it, as he is a delicate flower, but his dad hunted with. Apparently at some point pops shot a deer, and didnt kill it right off. He found it lying on the ground still breathing and instead of waste money on another round, he buttstroked it. The stock is cracked at the grip and both tangs are bent. I bought a lower tang from Lee's in Irving. I also purchased a youth sized synthetic furniture set (no longer Outers, it's Champion now).

Both the good 336 and messed up 336 are at Texas Brigade Armory. On the ugly, I have already chopped the barrel to 16.25 inches. An XS sights LSM with incorporated peep rear and its white blade from will also go on it. The good 336 will also have the barrel cut to 16.25 inches, but it will retain its wood stock and factory sights. Why? Because I always wanted a Marlin Texas, I just didnt want to pay what they were going for.

Which leads me to my third Marlin in 30-30. A Marlin Texan. An unmarked Marlin Texan, but a Texan according to the build of the rifle and more importantly, according to Marlin. It was cheap, around $300. I couldnt pass that up. I know Texans arent super-duper collectible compared to a Maruader, but I doubt I'll shoot the Texan. I could pull back the 2nd 336 mentioned briefly above, but I have already paid for the labor and parts, and figure it'll be my shootin' Texan.

As far as I know, David Clay is still very much around. Just hell to get a hold of.

[GJM]

This is why I will never give up my lever guns. Just in from shooting my 16.25 barrel .45-70 with Garrett 420+P ammo. This is six shots from three positions -- two kneeling at 50, two sitting at 75 and two sitting at 100. All six from three positions into 3.25 inches, and the four center ones into 1.5 inch. No drama.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image.jpg1_zpsx7yevypm.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image.jpg1_zpsx7yevypm.jpg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image.jpg2_zpsulvzdpic.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image.jpg2_zpsulvzdpic.jpg.html)

And I am confident the Garrett load will penetrate anything with four legs, from any angle.

[45dotACP]

That's a really good looking rifle GJM

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[HCM]

So I got to shoot the 1895 today - shot 8 rounds, 2 of 8 keyholed at z25 yards.

What are my options for replacing or re-habing the barrel?

Any recommendations on smiths to work on old Winchesters!

[MickAK]

I used to have a lot of .45-70 lever guns. Don't have most of them anymore.

Couldn't find a single defensive situation where the .45-70 worked better than a 12 ga. with Brenneke slugs.

Since a I shoot a lot more with an 870, I stopped using the .45-70's as wilderness defensive weapons and just use the 870's...

If you're packing out game and somebody clips a bear, but doesn't put it down, you're obligated to try to find it so someone doesn't walk up on a wounded bear, and the bear doesn't die a nasty slow death. Guide gun or similar is a little handier to point and hit at distance in that situation, at least for me.
That being said I went the same route, mainly because it's something that almost never comes up for me. I exclusively hunt blacktail, and I bone it and pack it out in scent-lok bags (they're small deer). I'm also usually by myself, and wouldn't feel obligated to track a bear that I wounded, although that never has and hopefully never will come up. If there is a problem bear, or some other reason I need to carry a long arm expecting to deal with one, the 870 is my go to. Not owning remote property or packing out large game, it's not something that comes up often. I can hunt birds with the 870 as well. Couldn't do that with a .45-70.
I'm mainly typing this to convince myself I don't need a rig like GJM's wife's .45-70. I haven't wanted a firearm so bad in a long time. Is there a setting to turn off pictures? :)

[Malamute]

So I got to shoot the 1895 today - shot 8 rounds, 2 of 8 keyholed at z25 yards.

What are my options for replacing or re-habing the barrel?

Any recommendations on smiths to work on old Winchesters!

What load are you shooting in it?

Have you cleaned it really really well? I've heard several guys with older guns that got a TON of old fouling and crud out of their barrels, and it helped the gun tremendously. If you have the electronic type cleaner, or some of the foaming cleaner, it may be a good place to start.

Most of the 30 cal guns seem to shoot decent unless really trashed. I had a 94 that was pitted pretty bad, but it shot 4"-5"-ish groups @ 100 for 3 shots. After getting the crown cleaned up a little, it did better.

[JM Campbell]

I've got some foaming cleaner we can try HCM, bring it when we build your upper.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[Malamute]

^ ^ Cool.

Some of the older guns were shot for long periods and never cleaned well if at all. Even if they look passable, they can have an awful lot of crud in the bore. Some high grade copper solvent may help also, but the foaming cleaner may get the job done. One friend did about 6-8 foam treatments on a bad bore before it really cleaned up.

[HCM]

What load are you shooting in it?

Have you cleaned it really really well? I've heard several guys with older guns that got a TON of old fouling and crud out of their barrels, and it helped the gun tremendously. If you have the electronic type cleaner, or some of the foaming cleaner, it may be a good place to start.

Most of the 30 cal guns seem to shoot decent unless really trashed. I had a 94 that was pitted pretty bad, but it shot 4"-5"-ish groups @ 100 for 3 shots. After getting the crown cleaned up a little, it did better.

Thanks - We shot 4 Remington factory loads and 4 of my own 180 grain reloads which shoot fine in my 30-40 bolt gun. We got 1 keyhole from each. I'll try the foaming cleaner and have a local gunsmith look at the crown.

I would like him to slug the bore as well. If it really is worn .311 bullet reloads might work.

[Colt191145lover]

After a good cleaning I would definitely slug the barrel, those always had a "variety" of bore sizes . I know of some pushing .314 diameter.

[Malamute]

Worst case, if you want to put a little into it, you could either find a decent barrel for it, have a barrel made up or refitted for it, or have a reproduction barrel made that would look original. I know a guy that can make very good reproduction barrels with all the correct markings inside and out. He made me a nice 20" short rifle 38-55 barrel for a 94 from a take-off from a 375 Whitworth. Markings are all correct for an 1898 gun.

Out of curiosity, do you have a dial caliper? You can check the ID with it and get a general idea if its really loose.

Can you see decent rifling at the muzzle?

[Dagga Boy]

I just picked up a Brockman 45-70 and re kindled my lever gun love. I have an older Marlin cut to 16" and parkerized in .44 Magnum. It was built by a Forest Service Ranger and I carried it a lot up in the Eastern Sierra's. I also have a .45 Colt Winchester Trapper and a .357 big loop. A 1886 in 45-70 that is simply gorgeous. A David Clay .444 cut down Marlin. I have a .45-70 Marlin cut to 32" overall as well. That gun was my California special. Was kept near the front door of the house, and was my travel and car gun when driving between my Arizona home and California. Essentially, I love these things.

I agree with SLG....in every category I have something likely better. Like DocGKR, I have done the Lords work with an 870 and am very comfortable with it in most scenarios.

With that in mind...I am a lot like GJM in that I will not get rid of them for several reasons. Unlike the shotgun, they are much sleeker and compact. Ammo is smaller and easier to handle. I love the shotgun for 25 yard and in work, and love them indoors. Outdoors at any distance, I want a rifle. The problem is, the rifles I like often have legal issues or perception issues. Often both. With my lever rifles, I never worry about travel with them or legalities. They are pretty much legal everywhere and fall way under the radar. Even the most ardent anti gun prosecutor would view them as a "cowboy gun". It is really what the anti's THINK the 2nd amendment is talking about (I cannot disagree any stronger,but this is the perception). In today's PC world, there is something to this. Reality......I can do a lot of damage to anything walking in the United States with a .45-70 or Magnum pistol round at carbine velocity even if they are in a vehicle. While not a real tangible, I like the way a lever carries in the hand. Very easy to carry and walk around with. They also carry well slung. These are like N frame revolvers.....sure there are more practical choices for today's world.....but if you do the job, they are still quite capable. For a gun you can protect your family with in all fifty states, and hunt with that has no real negatives on the legal perception size...the lever rifle is very viable.

[LSP972]

I love the shotgun for 25 yard and in work, and love them indoors. Outdoors at any distance, I want a rifle.

Indeed… which is why my "fantasy" premise in my other thread was begun.

Still on the fence between bolt & lever, though. I recognize that the lever gun makes more sense for what I want it to do. I'm hesitant, however, because it would appear that nobody makes a really good quality lever gun anymore, judging by all the comments regarding piss-poor QC, design, fabrication, etc.; and older, quality guns are going for a king's ransom.

So, am I correct in that direction of thinking or not? Does anyone make a QUALITY, short (16" barrel) lever gun currently? A further dilemma here is, get it in 30-30 or a pistol caliber? I would lean toward 30-30, because power.

.

[Malamute]

Indeed… which is why my "fantasy" premise in my other thread was begun.

Still on the fence between bolt & lever, though. I recognize that the lever gun makes more sense for what I want it to do. I'm hesitant, however, because it would appear that nobody makes a really good quality lever gun anymore, judging by all the comments regarding piss-poor QC, design, fabrication, etc.; and older, quality guns are going for a king's ransom.

So, am I correct in that direction of thinking or not? Does anyone make a QUALITY, short (16" barrel) lever gun currently? A further dilemma here is, get it in 30-30 or a pistol caliber? I would lean toward 30-30, because power.

.

I just saw a decent pre-crossbolt safety Marlin 336 in 30-30 for $350 I believe. They arent difficult to make shorter for a decent smith.

I like 30-30 quite a lot, for range and power.

[Sigfan26]

Indeed… which is why my "fantasy" premise in my other thread was begun.

Still on the fence between bolt & lever, though. I recognize that the lever gun makes more sense for what I want it to do. I'm hesitant, however, because it would appear that nobody makes a really good quality lever gun anymore, judging by all the comments regarding piss-poor QC, design, fabrication, etc.; and older, quality guns are going for a king's ransom.

So, am I correct in that direction of thinking or not? Does anyone make a QUALITY, short (16" barrel) lever gun currently? A further dilemma here is, get it in 30-30 or a pistol caliber? I would lean toward 30-30, because power.

.

The three Marlins I've bough in the last few months were all brand new with excellent fit and finish and zero reliability issues. YMMV, but I wouldn't worry a whole lot.

[Dagga Boy]

Indeed… which is why my "fantasy" premise in my other thread was begun.

Still on the fence between bolt & lever, though. I recognize that the lever gun makes more sense for what I want it to do. I'm hesitant, however, because it would appear that nobody makes a really good quality lever gun anymore, judging by all the comments regarding piss-poor QC, design, fabrication, etc.; and older, quality guns are going for a king's ransom.

So, am I correct in that direction of thinking or not? Does anyone make a QUALITY, short (16" barrel) lever gun currently? A further dilemma here is, get it in 30-30 or a pistol caliber? I would lean toward 30-30, because power.

.

I also like bolts. I have a very original Clifton Scout rifle and several other bolt guns that are wonderful creatures and likely more practical than the lever guns. I have had good luck with the Ruger lightweights for out of the box guns that are pretty good.

I will likely be grabbing a Marlin Youth lever action in 30/30 next week as it is priced right and I like the size. 30/30 is everywhere and for a lot of the last century were the general purpose rifle in the United States. Again, in PC world...they are good to have and know how to work.

Folks...if we get Hilary next year, and the way the world is going guns like these will be good to have just as a little security for travel guns and general purpose guns to have while the magazine fed guns are buried. Not for all of us, but for those in socialist Utopias, I predict that no matter how much the populace is screaming for more 2nd Amendment return of rights that have been infringed upon...your "representatives" will do the opposite.

[Jeep]

A 30-30 lever gun is an extremely effective weapon within 200 meters. It is decidedly old-school, but the old school knew a thing or two.

[LSP972]

I will likely be grabbing a Marlin Youth lever action in 30/30 .

Sounds like something I would be interested in, due to my T-Rex arms. However, I couldn't find it on their site. Out of print, I guess?

.

[Sigfan26]

Sounds like something I would be interested in, due to my T-Rex arms. However, I couldn't find it on their site. Out of print, I guess?

.

It's the 336Y. I've got one. It's still produced. It's pretty awesome
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/72758/redirect

[Dagga Boy]

They feel like a .22 when you pick them up. They are just a neat small gun. I think the term "cowboy assault rifles" fit many of these. People think of them like SAA six guns...they are cowboy guns, his old and not dangerous and suitable for the left's interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. They generally scare nobody....even on juries and at prosecutors offices. With that said, the ability to kill deer sized things very efficiently is convenient to have around.

[Beat Trash]

Has anyone ever taken a 336 Y and put a full sized stock on the shorter barreled gun? I'm beginning to think of one of these with an Aimpoint H-1 on it might be a handy little package.

[SeriousStudent]

Has anyone ever taken a 336 Y and put a full sized stock on the shorter barreled gun? I'm beginning to think of one of these with an Aimpoint H-1 on it might be a handy little package.

Apparently it is possible. I did some web searches, and found several posts stating that. My plan is to buy a used adult stock off eBay and swap them out. Other than that, I plan to leave it stock.

[David S.]

Not sure if this is worthy of a separate thread, but who are the go-to lever gun trainers?

[Wheeler]

Not sure if this is worthy of a separate thread, but who are the go-to lever gun trainers?

Jlw has ran a lever action class. Grant Cunningham used to do one as well. I want to say Gunsite used to run a lever action class at one time.

[PNWTO]

Not sure if this is worthy of a separate thread, but who are the go-to lever gun trainers?

Kyle Defoor recently posted a picture of some Marlin in his social media. He is pretty responsive to FB messages, maybe see what his tips are?

[GJM]

Differences, compared other long guns can probably be done in 30 minutes.

1) don't dry fire them without a snap cap.

2) use a sling as a carry not a shooting sling, as you will move POI.

3) if you have a cross bolt safety figure out how to get bang and not click. Disable it, or you can carry condition 3 with hammer all the way down so the safety can't engage.

4) use your support hand to load, while keeping the lever gun mounted, so you can fire at any time. Roll the action 90 degrees right, for a righty to load with left hand.

5) figure out if you can unload through the gate instead of cycling through the action.

What else am I forgetting?

[Malamute]

Why is that?

They tend to break the tip off the firing pin.

They seem to last about forever if not dry fired, just not happy when dry fired.

As a kid with my first Winchester 94, I dry fired it a lot, using an empty case. I didnt change it out enough and broke the firing pin tip. First thing the gunsmith said when I brought it in, "been dry firing it, havent you". Fired primers in empty cases get dented in pretty badly after only a few hits, maybe 5-6 is all I'd do now. Quality snap caps are a good investment.

[Wheeler]

They tend to break the tip off the firing pin.

They seem to last about forever if not dry fired, just not happy when dry fired.

As a kid with my first Winchester 94, I dry fired it a lot, using an empty case. I didnt change it out enough and broke the firing pin tip. First thing the gunsmith said when I brought it in, "been dry firing it, havent you". Fired primers in empty cases get dented in pretty badly after only a few hits, maybe 5-6 is all I'd do now. Quality snap caps are a good investment.

Does that apply to the safety models with the rebounding hammer?

[Malamute]

Does that apply to the safety models with the rebounding hammer?

I dont have a definitive answer. I'd err on the side of caution and use snap caps, though the rebounding actions likely dont hit the firing pin as hard, as they are known to occasionally have light strikes and not fire*.

Firing pins arent all that expensive, nor difficult to install, but if it happened at an embarrassing moment, it may seem like a whole bunch of snap caps were a great deal. I found out mine had broken when lined up on a squirrel.

Some guys make snap caps from fired cases, they remove the primer and either fill the primer pocket with silicone caulk, or better yet, get an O ring thats the correct cross section size to fit the primer pocket and glue a small piece in, trimming it off flush with a razor or sharp knife.

* on a side note, the rebound can be tuned a bit to hit harder, or on some, just replace the lower tang assy with a half cock one. I used to find them at gun shows and pass them along. They arent as easy to find lately though.

[LSP972]

It's the 336Y. I've got one. It's still produced. It's pretty awesome
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/72758/redirect

Yup, that's what I would want. I didn't see it when I looked at Marlin's site; guess I missed it. Thanks.

.

[PNWTO]

1) So the consensus here on P-F is that new production Marlins, like the 336 series, are a pretty safe expenditure?

2) The Hill People Gear forums have a good deal of lever threads and info.

[Beat Trash]

So I was reading through another topic titled, "Which way to go if it happens" and thought it was an entertaining intellectual excersize. Then I started to get the itch for a 30-30 lever gun as a knock about gun. The 336Y, either stock or with a full size stock installed looks interesting. Might even put a RDO like an Aimpoint H-1 on it.

Does anyone know if Marlin has gotten their act together with their quality control? I heard there were issues when Remington bought them out. But I haven't handled a newer Marlin in a few years.

[Robinson]

So I was reading through another topic titled, "Which way to go if it happens" and thought it was an entertaining intellectual excersize. Then I started to get the itch for a 30-30 lever gun as a knock about gun. The 336Y, either stock or with a full size stock installed looks interesting. Might even put a RDO like an Aimpoint H-1 on it.

Does anyone know if Marlin has gotten their act together with their quality control? I heard there were issues when Remington bought them out. But I haven't handled a newer Marlin in a few years.

Based on examples I have examined I'd say quality has improved but is not back to the standard of pre-Remington days. You might get a rifle that is nicely made or you might not. I would probably only buy as long as I could examine the gun personally first.

[Sigfan26]

So I was reading through another topic titled, "Which way to go if it happens" and thought it was an entertaining intellectual excersize. Then I started to get the itch for a 30-30 lever gun as a knock about gun. The 336Y, either stock or with a full size stock installed looks interesting. Might even put a RDO like an Aimpoint H-1 on it.

Does anyone know if Marlin has gotten their act together with their quality control? I heard there were issues when Remington bought them out. But I haven't handled a newer Marlin in a few years.


The three Marlins I've bough in the last few months were all brand new with excellent fit and finish and zero reliability issues. YMMV, but I wouldn't worry a whole lot.

Caveat, I did have a tendency to short stroke the lever initially on the 336Y. It was my first lever action, though. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.

[Dagga Boy]

Here is my new one. My other guns are cut very short and built to carry in small cases and to be handy. I got this one as a pure shooter. This full house Brockman shoulders and balances great. It will get a micro Aimpoint (likely an H2) and a Biothane Rhodesian sling is enroute. Pure Thunder Stick.

[Beat Trash]

Nyeti, you should be banned from posting pictures. You kill my wallet...

That looks like a fun blaster of a Marlin.

[Dagga Boy]

I got it because it did not fit the previous owner well. For me, it is like it was a fitted to me and the sights come right to me eye. This is one of those guns that has the attribute of near perfect balance and fit, and I usually do very well with guns like this. Even though it is one of those antiquated lever actions.....I have a feeling his will be one of those ones that is something you never want to be in front of with evil in your heart.

[SLG]

Nyeti,

What stocks are those?

[Dagga Boy]

I "think" MPI. I need to send a picture to Jim Brockman and find out. Whatever they are....I like them.

[GJM]

I "think" MPI. I need to send a picture to Jim Brockman and find out. Whatever they are....I like them.

I just texted Jim B, and they are MPI, made predating his composite stocks for the Marlin. He has a mount there for you to mount a T1 on the Talley base.

I am going to grab my short Guide Gun with the H1 tomorrow. Should be a good CA legal terrorist interdiction tool. By removing one screw that secures the stock, you can carry it in a very small case, and still leave it loaded and ready to go.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image.jpg2_zpsulvzdpic.jpg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image.jpg2_zpsulvzdpic.jpg.html)

[Dagga Boy]

Got with him today on the Aimpoint micro mount. Dropping your name helped, and I appreciate it. When I come out in December, we may end up in California as well for a few days.....I have decided that dropping an ISIS asshole with a 45-70 Thunder Stick will get a standing ovation in Valhalla.

[SeriousStudent]

.....I have decided that dropping an ISIS asshole with a 45-70 Thunder Stick will get a standing ovation in Valhalla.

Or in San Bernardino County, for that matter.

[Dagga Boy]

I think Raam Maqqel would work....Thunder Stick in Hebrew.......cause ISIS and progressives hate Jews.

[Lost River]

Got with him today on the Aimpoint micro mount. Dropping your name helped, and I appreciate it. When I come out in December, we may end up in California as well for a few days.....I have decided that dropping an ISIS asshole with a 45-70 Thunder Stick will get a standing ovation in Valhalla.

Going to Brockmans in southern Idaho?

[Dagga Boy]

Going to Brockmans in southern Idaho?

He built the gun and apparently makes a custom mount for the Aimpoint micro to get it on the Talley mounts. Should be very clean. I have lusted after a Brockman custom lever action for a long time.

[Lost River]

I guess my communications skills suck.

I was asking if you were going to Brockmans. I am close (relatively speaking). The chief of the town is an old leo buddy and IPSC shooter.

[Dagga Boy]

I guess my communications skills suck.

I was asking if you were going to Brockmans. I am close (relatively speaking). The chief of the town is an old leo buddy and IPSC shooter.

No, not that I wouldn't mind the trip. I figure he ll just ship the part to Texas.

[Beat Trash]

Got with him today on the Aimpoint micro mount. Dropping your name helped, and I appreciate it. When I come out in December, we may end up in California as well for a few days.....I have decided that dropping an ISIS asshole with a 45-70 Thunder Stick will get a standing ovation in Valhalla.

It doesn't get more 'American than that!

[Sigfan26]

I am seriously considering sending my Guide Gun in to get the front aight moved back and thread the barrel. Silencerco is supposed to be releasing a suppressor that will handle 45-70. Not sure, but I think the new Liberty Cosmic might (it's rated for 458 SOCOM).

[Dagga Boy]

Grabbed the Marlin 336 Youth today for under $300.00 OTD. The potential for a travel gun at that price is good. Easily replaced, legal,everywhere, rear stock comes off with a single screw. I could see spending the extra coin on a set of Brockman sights that are almost as much as the gun, a HPG stock pack and a sling. Simple, and a rifle that i can get ammo for from any Walmart. It is also small and flat. Kind of cool. For most of the last century the lever action 30/30 was the bang around general purpose truck gun in most non-urban areas. Here in Texas they served as a general purpose LE gun for a long time as well.....folks would step up to bigger calibers if they knew they were headed to trouble, but the 30/30 was the one around most of the time due to how handy they are. Coming from an urban world, I never really got this. I have figured it out in my later years and as they make the modern semi auto rifle a legal issue in urbanized areas that the handy lever has some benefits.

[Dropkick]

Grabbed the Marlin 336 Youth today for under $300.00 OTD. The potential for a travel gun at that price is good. Easily replaced, legal everywhere.

I can't wait to hear your general impressions on the 336Y. They were on sale at Bass Pro before Thanksgiving and I really considered getting one for similar purposes.

[LSP552]

I have decided that dropping an ISIS asshole with a 45-70 Thunder Stick will get a standing ovation in Valhalla.

Dude...here in Louisiana also!

And it's time for me to pick up a Marlin 30-30, just because.

[TR675]

Grabbed the Marlin 336 Youth today for under $300.00 OTD.

That is a good price. Did you get it at a brick and mortar?

[Peally]

Got with him today on the Aimpoint micro mount. Dropping your name helped, and I appreciate it. When I come out in December, we may end up in California as well for a few days.....I have decided that dropping an ISIS asshole with a 45-70 Thunder Stick will get a standing ovation in Valhalla.

"And then Odin leaned over and he thus said: "f*ckin a' bro" as he did indeed initiate a fist bump across the table feast before them, laden with endless succulent food of swine"

[Dagga Boy]

That is a good price. Did you get it at a brick and mortar?

You know where I hang out....:p. I just traded in a gun they did well on resale and hooked me up on this.

[Rich@CCC]

I'm a little late, as usual!

My one and only lever gun is a Marlin 336, .30-30 that I inherited from my dad. He bought it new in '73. It's the first non .22 long gun I ever shot. It killed my first deer in West by God Virgina and has been my favorite stick since I first saw it in the gun rack on the living room wall.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb258/luvmy40/guns/IMG_0809_zps6d4f7c56.jpg (http://s206.photobucket.com/user/luvmy40/media/guns/IMG_0809_zps6d4f7c56.jpg.html)

It has been my VA/WV deer gun since that first hunt, but now that Ohio has opened up straight wall pistol calibers in long guns for white tail I am on the prowl for a 70's vintage Marlin 1895 in .45-70.

I passed on a franken gun that I found at a local gun show. It was 336 action with a stainless steel octagonal barrel chamber for .45-70. I wasn't willing to take a chance on a bubba smithed gun for $350.00. A buddy of mine talked the guy down and bought it for $295.00 and claims it's best lever gun he owns!

Since I've never owned a lever action with a cross bolt safety, I really have no opinion at all on that front.

[Irelander]

I had a Rossi stainless '92 in 44MAG with a 16" barrel. I loved that gun but sold it to fund a safe since my girl is getting older. I regret selling everyday. I will have another, hopefully a Marlin. Heck, I think I'd rather have a nice short levergun than my Rem 700P LTR 308.

Regarding suppressed leverguns...here is a pic from AAC I saved some time ago.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47624012/Lever_APA_50.jpg

[LSP972]

Dude...here in Louisiana also!

And it's time for me to pick up a Marlin 30-30, just because.

Bofus. I'm about sold on that 336Y.

Murray beat us to the punch; he's got a 1894 Trapper model that is just too cool.

.

[PNWTO]

"An Assault-Rifle Alternative for 'Average Joe'" (https://hillpeoplegear.com/Forum/tabid/679/forumid/24/threadid/4239/scope/posts/Default.aspx)- Interesting little talk, I'll copy/paste a post below:


I’m a 64-year-old dinosaur with opinions, so indulge me some backstory to put this in perspective. My childhood wasn’t different from others of the Baby Boomer generation. Northern Virginia after World War II was an odd mix of The Walton’s and American Graffiti. The rural south still existed where we now call it “outside the beltway.” When Dad bought our Annandale house in 1954, State Route 236, aka “Little River Turnpike” was a 2-lane country road between Alexandria and Fairfax Courthouse, which wasn’t yet a city. Our neighborhood was surrounded by dairy farms, hardwood forests were full of game, and we shot my brother’s open-sighted .22 bolt-action out the upstairs bedroom window to kill woodchucks raiding Dad’s garden. Our neighbor was an avid hunter who let us “help” him butcher deer and feed scraps to his two German shorthaired pointers. At age 12 he let me hold his deer rifle, a Winchester Model 94 in.30-30. Like any kid who watched TV cowboys of that era, I was totally enthralled!

The opening, in 1963, of Interstate 495, the now-infamous “Beltway,” put “my world” on a fast track towards destruction. By the time I became old enough for Dad to allow me to have my own rifle, fields and woods near us were falling victim to developers’ bulldozers. By the time I graduated high school we were hip deep in suburbia, strip malls, and the Vietnam War. Any shooting activity moved indoors to Fort Belvoir, which meant that my first rifle would be a target .22, its targets paper, and life would never be the same.

Summer visits to our uncle’s West Virginia farm (near where I live now) prolonged our sanity. There was no TV. We learned that meat doesn’t grow from a seed planted under cellophane-covered meat trays in the grocery. Veggies don’t grow magically in the can. “If you eat, thank a Farmer.” Outdoor recreation is a celebration of God’s Creation which rewards you with peace, solitude, time for contemplation and rest after completing a day’s cheerful labor.

Uncle Bill told us the truth about guns. His stories were different from what we saw on TV. His .30-30 Winchester Model 94 had guarded coal trains from Nazi saboteurs, kept order during mine labor disputes, ended the suffering of sick or injured farm animals, and helped feed starving neighbors during the Great Depression. This plain rifle was carried by a humble farmer who never expected to see armed combat again after returning from the Pacific. But, when deputized to serve on a sheriff’s posse he had to fire it in anger once more...

Recalling that event invoked no pride, but imparted to us kids the simple wisdom that both good and evil forces exist in our world, which may compel honorable men to make difficult choices necessary to protect our country and those whom we love. The Second Amendment isn’t just about hunting, gun collecting or target shooting. Guns are not adult toys, but serious tools. Too many shooters fail to grasp that basic fact.
While my older brother, Rick and I both had .22s and knew fundamentals, firing our first center-fire, watching that .30-30 explode a pumpkin, accompanied by the smack of steel butt-plate against T-shirted shoulder and ringing in our adolescent ears made a lasting impression. Sadly, a .30-30 lever-gun would not find a spot in my closet until I reached age 60. A few years ago an old Winchester Model 1894 carbine appeared at an estate sale, which brought back memories as if it were yesterday. So, I had to have it.

As a young man growing up the lever-gun versus bolt action discussion was a favorite deer camp after-dinner subject among the older adults. We boys would just sit back and listen. Salient arguments I remember are summarized:

The .30-30 is ubiquitous. Guns and ammo are sold everywhere. A rural lawman, farmer or forester can find .30-30s at any crossroads grocery. (A federal special agent friend still advises his field agents never to carry any gun of a caliber they cannot buy ammo for at Wal-Mart). Lever guns remain popular in rural areas because they are cheap, plentiful, familiar, handy to carry, accurate enough and they work. In remote regions a .30-30 is often the only high-power rifle people have heard of.

Practical Hunting Accuracy. Grouping of the average lever-action .30-30 is adequate for the utilitarian. Five-shot groups of 3” to 4” at 100 yards are normal with open sights. Peep sights will knock an inch off that and offer a useful improvement, because the aperture is faster for snap shooting and obstructs less of the target. Use the hooded aperture in bright light and unscrew the disk for a “ghost ring” at twilight.

A .30-30 is for “short range” (meaning less than 200 yards in the Infantry sense). Open sights, as set at the factory, are USUALLY on the bottom elevator step to zero the rifle to strike point of aim at 50 yards with factory loads. Each step you raise the rear sight elevator increases zero range about 50 yards when using the bead drawn tightly down into the notch. When set on third, middle step, most ‘94s put factory loads 3 to 4 inches above the bead at 100 yards, which gives a 150-yard, “point-blank” range, a realistic practical limit for a typical 3 minute-of-angle carbine, a good field zero for Eastern hunting. If you to take a 6:00 hold on a deer’s brisket, you will make a good hit as long as "there is hair under the bead" and no daylight above the bead sight.

The 1/16 inch bead subtends about 5 minutes of angle when out on the end of a 20-inch carbine. If your deer is far enough away that the bead covers a whitetail from shoulder to brisket, hold right there and shoot carefully, from a rest if you have one. When zeroed to strike 3-4 inches high at 100 yards, covering the forequarters with the bead, you should get a solid hit on your deer if you do your part, out to about 150 yards, That is the maximum effective range you should ayttemnpt game with a .30-30. If the animal is far enough out that you cannot see around the bead to identify both head and hindquarters, it is over 200 yards and too far to be sure of a humane kill.

The .30-30 is a 150-yard deer rifle, because open-sighted lever-guns just don't shoot much better than 6 inches at 150 yards. That is simply reality. A 1/16 front sight bead is a useful range estimator. Sight your rifle in to strike 3-4 inches high at 100, adjust windage carefully until absolutely perfect, then leave the sights alone. Old timers using only iron sights before WWII brought lots of venison home.
Combat Accurate, If You’re a Cowboy. My boyhood mentor LTC Ellis Lea (USA, Ret.) was a West Virginia State Trooper before serving in the U.S. Army in the ETO during WWII. Years later as a firearms instructor for the Office of Public Safety of the U.S. Agency for International Development, he called the Winchester 94 the “Appalachian Assault Rifle” and compared its combat utility to the SKS or US Carbine cal. .30 M1. He trained alot of law enforcement from South and Central America with the simple 94 Winchester.

Some basics:
When using the open semi-buckhorn sights for quick combat range estimation, the shoulders of an FBI silhouette or Army "E" just fill the width of the small notch at about 100 yards or meters. If you can see daylight around the shoulders, alter your sight picture so that the bead "floats" slightly above the fine notch. When the bead is level with the first shoulder above the inner notch, point of impact coincides with the center of the bead at about 200 yards or meters. Proper sight picture is to hold for center of mass of the silhouette.

At long range, for defensive, suppressive fires only, raising the front sight so that the bead "floats" between the top ears of the semi-buckhorn sight, the bead subtends the height of an “E” silhouette and provides correct elevation to approximately 300 yards or meters. Once trained in correct sight picture, assuming good initial zero, firing factory loads, a trained rural law enforcement officer can average 80% hits or better on the Army "E" silhouette at 200 yards and 60% hits or better at 300 yards. Fired in this manner a 30-30 lever action has similar hit probability to the SKS and is more accurate than typical AKs beyond 100 yards.

If using a receiver peep sight the .30-30 Model 94 should be zeroed so that the center of the group is 3-4" above the top of the front sight at 100 yards. This gives a point-of-aim = point-of-impact hold to 150-175 yards with factory loads. If the front sight is held high chest, blotting out the shoulders of the Army "F" or "D" silhouettes, so that only the head is exposed above the front sight, hits will strike center chest at about 150-175 yards, and in the lower half of the silhouete at 200 yards or meters.
Lever guns have the advantage of non-threatening, familiar appearance which “doesn’t scare the natives. In 19th Century close quarter battle, lever actions had tactical advantages, offering a large magazine capacity and rapidity of fire compared to single-shot breechloaders and early bolt-guns. The Ottoman cavalry and Pancho Villa agreed. Most bolt-rifles other than the Krag, cannot be topped off without taking them momentarily out of the fight, whereas you can shove more rounds through a lever-action loading gate whenever you need to. Against bandits in dusty border towns a lever gun was as simple as it ever got. It still works.

In MY opinion, scoping a lever-action defeats the purpose of having a trim, fast-handling carbine. If you REALLY must scope your .30-30 lever-gun the Marlin enables optics to be mounted low over the bore, where they belong for snap-shooting. A scope DOES aid to positive target identification and for old guys with poor eyesight reduces sighting errors. In snow-shoe country if a rifle is not be protected in a saddle scabbard, many hunters like the Marlin’s solid top receiver and side ejection port because they help keep rain, snow and tree debris out of the action. The Marlin breech-bolt, lever and ejector are removed easily to enable cleaning from the breech, avoiding wearing out the muzzle crown. While the Winchester action is more exposed to the elements, its advocates say its open-top makes it easier to inspect the chamber, pry out a stuck case, clear a jam or debris. Marlin lovers say they can field can field strip as needed and can do so readily in the field with a Scout knife.

Author brings up a lot of nostalgia but some good talking points on lever actions, their political corrective-ness, and the fact they are still applicable.

[Dagga Boy]

I had an epiphany tonight.....stand by for one of my diatribes:cool:.

I think I also figured out why I have such an emotional love of lever actions for a kid who never hunted. One of my favorite movies as a kid.....I was obsessed with Billy Jack.

[El Cid]

Wanted a lever rifle since I first saw my grandfather's 30-30 when I was a kid.

I'm just going to leave this right here...
http://www.superiorfirearmsllc.com/lever-action.html

[Dagga Boy]

Took a shot of some stuff I was messing around with tonight.

Left to right..the Marlin (Remlin) 336 youth, Brockman 45/70, Winchester Saddle Ring big loop Trapper in .357 mag.(total cowboy movie special), and a David R Clay custom .444 Marlin.

[LOKNLOD]

Took a shot of some stuff I was messing around with tonight.

Left to right..the Marlin (Remlin) 336 youth, Brockman 45/70, Winchester Saddle Ring big loop Trapper in .357 mag.(total cowboy movie special), and a David R Clay custom .444 Marlin.

I dig that big loop with the straight stock.

[dbateman]

I think the term "cowboy assault rifles" fit many of these.

I call mine the original LTR. People look at me weird, I don't care.

That 444 looks pretty impressive, would you go with such a short barrel again for that round ?
I haven't had much at all to do with the 444, but it grabs my attention.

[Dagga Boy]

The .444 is really just a gigantic .44 Magnum. I look at 45-70 and .444 as closer range thumpers rather than really rifles. If I want to hit things at long range, where velocity and flat shooting are an issue, I have rifles that shoot better high velocity ammo for that purpose. The Big bore levers shoot big heavy ammo with rainbow trajectory. For my intended purpose as a defensive rifle rather than a hunting rifle, I like the shorter barrels. I do have some longer barreled big bores I can use if I ever decide to take up hunting (I do have a list of things I would like to hunt at some point).

When I got the .444 I took it to a local large metropolis PD range to try it out and zero it. I let the range staff shoot it. Most LE range guys are not really "gun people" and many only have experience shooting AR's as what a "rifle" is. To a man, that .444 dropped jaws. You know you are shooting something serious (and I find the .444 much milder than my 45-70's). One guy was simply enthralled and was ready to give up his AR right there.

[Jeep]

The .444 is really just a gigantic .44 Magnum. I look at 45-70 and .444 as closer range thumpers rather than really rifles. If I want to hit things at long range, where velocity and flat shooting are an issue, I have rifles that shoot better high velocity ammo for that purpose. The Big bore levers shoot big heavy ammo with rainbow trajectory. For my intended purpose as a defensive rifle rather than a hunting rifle, I like the shorter barrels. I do have some longer barreled big bores I can use if I ever decide to take up hunting (I do have a list of things I would like to hunt at some point).

When I got the .444 I took it to a local large metropolis PD range to try it out and zero it. I let the range staff shoot it. Most LE range guys are not really "gun people" and many only have experience shooting AR's as what a "rifle" is. To a man, that .444 dropped jaws. You know you are shooting something serious (and I find the .444 much milder than my 45-70's). One guy was simply enthralled and was ready to give up his AR right there.

During Vietnam, some SF guys brought in .444 lever guns to penetrate the jungle/brush and apparently they were very effective when used in close-range ambushes. Much less deflection of the bullet than with normal military calibers.

[Dagga Boy]

During Vietnam, some SF guys brought in .444 lever guns to penetrate the jungle/brush and apparently they were very effective when used in close-range ambushes. Much less deflection of the bullet than with normal military calibers.

It was actually only one. Sgt.. Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver, a SOG and Green Beret legend bought one on leave and had it sent to SOG for "Bunker Busting". Likely the only one.

[Jeep]

Perhaps. I was told the story in the early 70's and as I recall it was more than one guy, but that is a long time ago and it is entirely possible that my memory is incorrect, or the story was slightly wrong. As I remember, the guys using them were in "the Projects" and not part of SOG, but that too could be wrong. It did create a lasting impression that the .444 must be a pretty good brush caliber.

[Malamute]

Handled one of the Winchester/Miroku 1873's in 357 cal yesterday. 16" barrel "trapper"model. Very nice. Very much have the wants for.

[SecondsCount]

When I got the .444 I took it to a local large metropolis PD range to try it out and zero it. I let the range staff shoot it. Most LE range guys are not really "gun people" and many only have experience shooting AR's as what a "rifle" is. To a man, that .444 dropped jaws. You know you are shooting something serious (and I find the .444 much milder than my 45-70's). One guy was simply enthralled and was ready to give up his AR right there.

An older friend had a Ruger No. 1 built in 45-70. We were shooting a bowling pin at 75 yards with an AR and it was basically absorbing the hits or letting them through. We shot it with the 45-70 and it busted a great big chunk off the pin. Energy :cool:

[Jakus]

Took a shot of some stuff I was messing around with tonight.

Left to right..the Marlin (Remlin) 336 youth, Brockman 45/70, Winchester Saddle Ring big loop Trapper in .357 mag.(total cowboy movie special), and a David R Clay custom .444 Marlin.

nyeti,

Can you comment on the quality of the Remlin gun? I had looked at lever guns awhile back when Marlin was transitioning to Remington and saw some things that scared me off.

Would a current Remlin gun be worth sending off to Brockman or are you still better off finding an older gun?

[Dagga Boy]

nyeti,

Can you comment on the quality of the Remlin gun? I had looked at lever guns awhile back when Marlin was transitioning to Remington and saw some things that scared me off.

Would a current Remlin gun be worth sending off to Brockman or are you still better off finding an older gun?

So far, no glaring issues, but I have not shot it. Lubed it up and have been working on cycling the action to smooth things out. I am putting Brockman sights on it, because I REALLY like them and I think they add a ton of capability. For a full build, I would find an older gun. For a cheap, disposable travel gun......the Remlin 336 youth is likely a winner in that role.

[dbateman]

The .444 is really just a gigantic .44 Magnum. I look at 45-70 and .444 as closer range thumpers rather than really rifles. If I want to hit things at long range, where velocity and flat shooting are an issue, I have rifles that shoot better high velocity ammo for that purpose. The Big bore levers shoot big heavy ammo with rainbow trajectory. For my intended purpose as a defensive rifle rather than a hunting rifle, I like the shorter barrels. I do have some longer barreled big bores I can use if I ever decide to take up hunting (I do have a list of things I would like to hunt at some point).

When I got the .444 I took it to a local large metropolis PD range to try it out and zero it. I let the range staff shoot it. Most LE range guys are not really "gun people" and many only have experience shooting AR's as what a "rifle" is. To a man, that .444 dropped jaws. You know you are shooting something serious (and I find the .444 much milder than my 45-70's). One guy was simply enthralled and was ready to give up his AR right there.


I thought the 444 out of such a short barrel might be a bit on the obnoxious side, you know flash blast Ect.
But that's just an idea I have from what I've read and heard.

It's sounds like you and I look for similar things out of our leverguns.
I really like the 16" barrelled guns, I have a couple with longer barrels but other than my 348 my trappers are the ones I like to use.


I like my 348 for the same reason you like your 444, the thing kills like the hammer of Thor.

[Dagga Boy]

I am not a reloader. I have been spoiled by tax payer ammo for a lot of years. At some point I am going to wade into reloading. I am not a "tool" person, so I have decided when the time comes to start rolling my own I will likely stick with easy to load straight wall stuff. I figured the .444 can be loaded with the same bullets as my .44 mags. Just seems to make sense for building a simple, transportable loading set up is using a cartridge combo that is compatible between handgun and rifle. .44 mag is super versatile in its loadings and various revolvers, and the .444 sort of adds to that. I also have a T/C Katahdin Hunter carbine in .444 that is also a really neat little gun.

[45dotACP]

Don't start in moderation...too many people start with a single stage press. Almost none of them stay with one for volume loading.

I am a handloader...but I got started because .41 magnum is damn expensive when you make 10.50 an hour in college :D

Sold the .41 a while back (bad decision), still reload though...one of these days I'll buy something goofy like a .38 super or some big bore ruger to justify all that gear again, but for now I just crank out a few hundred .45s, bitch about powder availability (but seriously...still no Bullseye powder wtf) and call it good.

Also, it's a fairly fun hobby.

Sent from my VS876 using Tapatalk

[nycnoob]

I do not think this has been posted yet


http://www.wideopenspaces.com/must-see-suppressed-marlin-1894-thing-beauty/



Ever thought you’d live to see a suppressed Marlin 1894?

The Marlin 1894 chambered in 357 Mag is a phenomenal personal defense rifle. Trusted for well over 100 years, this lever action is by no means a beginner.

The suppressor feature on a lever action is really a first. Purely customized for an invidivual shooter I’m sure he’s ready to see what the rifle has to offer. I noticed that the rifle had both a red dot sight and a fiber optic front sight (red in color) and a large ghost ring on the rear sight.




4926




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2bHKh2eDis

[SeriousStudent]

I don't think that suppressed Marlin is a first. I had a buddy who lived in Arkansas, who shot deer all the time with a suppressed .357 levergun, equipped with an Aimpoint Micro. That was about 15 years ago.

Not being snotty at all. Just pointing out that great minds often develop similar solutions. Newton and Leibniz both developed calculus independently.

[Malamute]

I don't think that suppressed Marlin is a first. I had a buddy who lived in Arkansas, who shot deer all the time with a suppressed .357 levergun, equipped with an Aimpoint Micro. That was about 15 years ago.

Not being snotty at all. Just pointing out that great minds often develop similar solutions. Newton and Leibniz both developed calculus independently.

Winchester used to offer the model 94's if not others ready for Maxim Silencers in the early 1900's. Have a picture of one in a dead computer.

[HCM]

Winchester used to offer the model 94's if not others ready for Maxim Silencers in the early 1900's. Have a picture of one in a dead computer.

http://www.guns.com/2012/05/18/nra-national-firearms-museum-theodore-roosevelt-collection-suppressed-winchester-model-1894/

http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/Maxim%20silencer/Maxim%20Silencer%20brochure.pdf

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/25/winchester-levergun-with-antique-silencer-at-jdj/

[dbateman]

Winchester used to offer the model 94's if not others ready for Maxim Silencers in the early 1900's. Have a picture of one in a dead computer.

There were a lot of them come over here that way, 92s and 94s.

I have a 70s era 94/22 that is threaded, it's nicely done but I don't think it was factory threaded.

[dbateman]

I am not a reloader. I have been spoiled by tax payer ammo for a lot of years. At some point I am going to wade into reloading. I am not a "tool" person, so I have decided when the time comes to start rolling my own I will likely stick with easy to load straight wall stuff. I figured the .444 can be loaded with the same bullets as my .44 mags. Just seems to make sense for building a simple, transportable loading set up is using a cartridge combo that is compatible between handgun and rifle. .44 mag is super versatile in its loadings and various revolvers, and the .444 sort of adds to that. I also have a T/C Katahdin Hunter carbine in .444 that is also a really neat little gun.

Reloading isn't that hard, people like to make it sound difficult but it's not. I mean you have to learn it but I don't think you will have much trouble, and if you do just come on here and ask someone will be able to point you in the right direction.

I find it helps me a bit if I group things together like you are with your 44/444.

Like 45dotACP I find loading pistol ammo on a single stage to be a pain in the ass, I still use single stage presses for some rifle rounds and don't mind it, but if you're shooting any volume of pistol ammo invest in a progressive press (read Dillon)

[Dagga Boy]

Anybody have recommendations on a good all around 30/30 round? 150, 180, bullet type? I noted it was relatively cheap and plentiful at Walmart with both Remington and Winchester,

[SLG]

Anybody have recommendations on a good all around 30/30 round? 150, 180, bullet type? I noted it was relatively cheap and plentiful at Walmart with both Remington and Winchester,

I prefer the 170's usually, but it probably doesn't matter much. I don't know that I've used the remington, but the Winchester seems to work well.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Anybody have recommendations on a good all around 30/30 round? 150, 180, bullet type? I noted it was relatively cheap and plentiful at Walmart with both Remington and Winchester,

I like the 170s also, Darryl, and treat them like .22 LR ammo: buy several different brands and see which one shoots best.

As for the reloading, I can teach you.

[Wheeler]

I prefer the 170's as a general purpose round.

[GJM]

I settled on the Federal 170 soft point (cheapo version, available widely) as functioning well and being accurate in two pre-64 Model 94 and a Marlin 336.

[LSP972]

As for the reloading, I can teach you.

Start him out on a Lee single stage… make him earn it.;)

.

[GJM]

I am waiting for a upcoming feature article in Reloading Magazine, under the nom de plume, "lever-eti," entitled "living the reloading for lever guns" lifestyle.

[SMD]

Winchester 170 grain PowerPoints for me. A good nexus of price, accuracy and availability in my Marlin. Although... I'm in-between shotguns and for now, the Marlin is my home defense long gun. I've gone to Federal's 3030C, a lighter-constructed 125 JHP they intend for varmints and light game, for inside duty.

[Dagga Boy]

I am waiting for a upcoming feature article in Reloading Magazine, under the nom de plume, "lever-eti," entitled "living the reloading for lever guns" lifestyle.

My life is one big tax write off...;-)


Winchester 170 grain PowerPoints for me. A good nexus of price, accuracy and availability in my Marlin. Although... I'm in-between shotguns and for now, the Marlin is my home defense long gun. I've gone to Federal's 3030C, a lighter-constructed 125 JHP they intend for varmints and light game, for inside duty.

They had those at Walmart. Walmart available ammo is a desireable criteria.

[dbateman]

I like the 150gr soft point for dogs, pigs and what not, I find on heart lung shots they expand quite well and leave a large exit wound. They will kill just about anything you're likely to run into if you can place your shot right.

If I'm shooting cattle, donkey/horses camel ect and I am taking a 30-30 (which has happened) I take 170gr power points, they're much more heavly constructed and don't expand as quickly as the 150gr soft points, they are better suited to quartering away shots with their better penetration.

For light thin skins animals from what I have seen the 150gr is devistating.

[GJM]

By chance, Jim Brockman sent me these pics today of something new he is doing for 2016:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps1jr57782.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps1jr57782.jpeg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsrnvphfe3.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsrnvphfe3.jpeg.html)

[HCM]

By chance, Jim Brockman sent me these pics today of something new he is doing for 2016:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps1jr57782.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps1jr57782.jpeg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsrnvphfe3.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsrnvphfe3.jpeg.html)

I like everything except the forearm rail system which is just Fugly

[Doug]

I like everything except the forearm rail system which is just Fugly

Not a fan of rails on lever guns but can see for some that want to mount a light.

Grizzly Custom makes some products

http://www.grizzlycustom.com/parts_marlin.html

http://www.grizzlycustom.com/assets/images/parts/grizzly_custom_guns_marlin_barrel_band_tri_rail_pi catinny_2.jpg

http://www.grizzlycustom.com/assets/images/parts/grizzly_custom_guns_marlin_1894_336_picatinny_rail _barrel_band_2.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Jim Brockman told me that he free floated the barrel from the magazine tube, and I believe that stuff is part of that effort.

[LtDave]

I like the 170s also, Darryl, and treat them like .22 LR ammo: buy several different brands and see which one shoots best.

As for the reloading, I can teach you.
Exactly. I'm about to embark on a similar project with a couple of Rem 700s in .30-06. I've got a bunch of 180 grain loads to test, none of which cost more than $25 a box.
I don't know which factory load is best because I've never shot any. My favorite 30-30 load is a 150 gr Winchester power point over 28 grains of RL-7. These shoot moa or better out of my Marlin 336ADL.

[SeriousStudent]

I'm also not trying to be snotty, and maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm all but certain that the Aimpoint Micros were introduced (as a consumer product) in 2007. :)

You are absolutely correct. I was mistaken on the Micro. It did have an Aimpoint on it, but it could not have been a Micro at that time.

The guy's screen name on GT was Quake. Maybe Tam might recall the exact year? It would have been around 2000. I remember him posting pics of the dead deer. Tiny little things like the ones here in most of Texas. A .357 round or even a sharp retort would have dropped one.

[Dagga Boy]

Deer might be small, but we have a Bobcat on the golf course here that is eating like a pig in a high food environment that is huge, and I got a possum in the yard that may rate the 45/70. Animals seem to do well inside walled communities with lots of stuff to eat.

[Jeep]

Deer might be small, but we have a Bobcat on the golf course here that is eating like a pig in a high food environment that is huge, and I got a possum in the yard that may rate the 45/70. Animals seem to do well inside walled communities with lots of stuff to eat.

The trouble with those possum is that sometimes they like to break into your attic. Maybe you can introduce the bobcat to it.

[Irelander]

Any of you running a MRDS on a lever gun? I have been looking at the Turnbull FastFire mounts for 1892 and 1894 rifles.

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/fastfire-barrel-300x300.jpg

http://www.turnbullmfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/94FastFireMount1_Detail1-300x300.jpg

[Lost River]

By chance, Jim Brockman sent me these pics today of something new he is doing for 2016:

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zps1jr57782.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zps1jr57782.jpeg.html)

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg251/GJMandes/image_zpsrnvphfe3.jpeg (http://s250.photobucket.com/user/GJMandes/media/image_zpsrnvphfe3.jpeg.html)



Without the horrible rail abortion on the front, it might not be half bad. As it is, it is hideous, and reminds me of the movie Deliverance. I know Brockman does some well executed stuff, but this jumped the shark.

[JM Campbell]

Change the 1913 rail to mlock and I'm all in.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[coldcase1984]

Without the horrible rail abortion on the front, it might not be half bad. As it is, it is hideous, and reminds me of the movie Deliverance. I know Brockman does some well executed stuff, but this jumped the shark.

Lost River,

Agree on the rail! Only need a short rail for a good light. I'd prefer pretty walnut and like idea of a suppressed lever action.

Is that a .44 or .357? And is the hole in butt to lighten or hold something?

[HCM]

Not mine but pretty awesome.

5334

https://www.facebook.com/SilencerShop/photos/a.443053825715404.100750.232190883468367/1243596065661172/?type=3&theater

[hufnagel]

I am both horrified and weirdly intrigued by the sight of old fashion lever guns with silencers or RDS's attached.

[gtmtnbiker98]

This thread has got me interested in acquiring a lever gun. Having never owned one, which is the more respected manufacturer, Winchester or Marlin? Some of the Marlin's I've seen are very nice. I have zero experience with lever guns. The Henry's don't interest me due to the method of loading the tube.

[GJM]

This thread has got me interested in acquiring a lever gun. Having never owned one, which is the more respected manufacturer, Winchester or Marlin? Some of the Marlin's I've seen are very nice. I have zero experience with lever guns. The Henry's don't interest me due to the method of loading the tube.

What caliber, how do you want to set it up, what do you want to do with it?

[JHC]

This thread has got me interested in acquiring a lever gun. Having never owned one, which is the more respected manufacturer, Winchester or Marlin? Some of the Marlin's I've seen are very nice. I have zero experience with lever guns. The Henry's don't interest me due to the method of loading the tube.

The Henry's I've handled evidenced superb fit and finish vs my last few Marlins. Hell, including my 1972 Model 39 Century LTD. But then, I could live with the old style Henry tube feed.

I personally have grown to prefer Winchester 94s. Just sleeker. But again, .30-30 does all I need from a lever action unlike those out with the big bruins.

[gtmtnbiker98]

What caliber, how do you want to set it up, what do you want to do with it?
45-70, iron sights only, deer hunting.

[SLG]

45-70, iron sights only, deer hunting.

I'd seriously look at a Henry.

[HCM]

45-70, iron sights only, deer hunting.

The pre Remingtim Marlins with the JM stamp on the barrel are generally good to go. I have three Marlins a 39, a 336 30-30 and a 1990's vintage guide gun in 45-70.

The recent winchester / browning 1886 made in Japan is also good to go.

A third option would be the Chiappa lever guns. I've been impressed with the ones I've seen.

[Dropkick]

A third option would be the Chiappa lever guns. I've been impressed with the ones I've seen.

Chiappa has a Lever Action Take Down in Stainless with Over Molded Stocks they call their "Alaskan"
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2451
"What would you do for a Klondike bar?" Indeed!!

[SLG]

So, I see there are a few Henry fans in this thread. I have been lusting after one for a bit now, and am close to getting one.

I'd love to hear more from anyone with any experience with the Henry's. I think they solve some of the LA "problems" that I have mentioned in the past. Transfer bar safety and no manual safety make them easy and safe to carry chamber loaded. Mag tube makes unloading much better, and in cold weather, easier to load than a loading gate. I seem to get my gloves stuck in the gate pretty often, especially on the last round.

In general, they seem to have nice wood and are put together well. A little pricier than the Marlin's, but you get what you pay for. I know they don't have the same appeal as the more traditional gun for many, but for me, I think they will do it. One in 45-70 and one in 45 colt would be nice.

[GJM]

Link to desired models?

[SLG]

https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/45-70-lever-action/

https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/henry-big-boy-steel/


Not the brass ones.

[deputyG23]

For those of you with experience with .38/.357 lever guns:
Which one feeds .38 rounds most reliably?
If I got one, it would be fed .38s with 158 grain SWC bullets mostly and possibly a 38-44 equivalent handload I have yet to work up in a .38 GP-100..

[Malamute]

For those of you with experience with .38/.357 lever guns:
Which one feeds .38 rounds most reliably?If I got one, it would be fed .38s with 158 grain SWC bullets mostly and possibly a 38-44 equivalent handload I have yet to work up in a .38 GP-100..

In the 80s I had a Marlin 1894 carbine in 357. I recall it worked fairly well with most ammo. I cant offer much in the way of specifics, other than I shot mainly commercially available SWC bullets in 38 spl. It would sometimes hang up a little in feeding, but not bad. That's probably fixable, I never messed with it though.

I dont have personal experience with the 1892 Winchester clones in 357 cal, but I do know that many report their guns run fine on about any load, and some don't. The difference can be worked with and should be able to be made workable without much drama. Its a matter of cartridge stop timing, which isn't rocket science. Theres a little leeway in being able to get them to function with shorter and longer rounds.

I'm mainly a Winchester fan, but I wouldn't complain about either. That little Marlin carbine is one I truly regret trading off.

Shooting 38 spls in a carbine feels like shooting an overgrown 22.

[JHC]

My Marlin 1894 was a little rough with .38s but money with .357. A strong vigorous pimp hand generally ran the .38s. The two Rossi 92s I've had ran either very smoothly. Each is an individual I suppose.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Chiappa has a Lever Action Take Down in Stainless with Over Molded Stocks they call their "Alaskan"
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/2451
"What would you do for a Klondike bar?" Indeed!!
Had one for testing, along with a colour case blued cowboy version, both in 44. AWESOME.

http://calibremag.ca/chiappa-lever-guns-reviewed/

Not sure why that article is credited to Dan though. I'm responsible for it, sadly.

[GJM]

https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/45-70-lever-action/

https://www.henryrifles.com/rifles/henry-big-boy-steel/


Not the brass ones.

How do you add more cartridges quickly?

[LOKNLOD]

How do you add more cartridges quickly?

It appears you can load individuals through the ejection port into an empty gun, a-la-pump-shotgun.

[SLG]

We have one 1894 in .357. Shoots .38 wadcutters just fine, though it is a gun the David Clay did his magic to, so i don't know if that is representative in anyway.

GJM,

The henry's really can't be topped off unless you pull the mag tube and drop them in. As noted above, they can be "combat loaded" just like a shotgun. I don't think that is an issue worth worrying about, as LA's are not combat weapons for me, and the mag capacity is likely to handle anything I need in the animal world. I actually dislike loading gates, and often find them annoying to use, so for me, the Henry seems to offer an advantage. Also, if you stage your ammo well, or use a speed tube of some sort, the Henry can be loaded faster than anything else. Again, not something I care much about.

[SLG]

Had one for testing, along with a colour case blued cowboy version, both in 44. AWESOME.

http://calibremag.ca/chiappa-lever-guns-reviewed/

Not sure why that article is credited to Dan though. I'm responsible for it, sadly.

Good article, thanks for the link. Well written and pretty informative.

I have used Skinner sights for many years, but not the barrel mounted kind. How did you find them compared to a more traditional peep or ghost ring?

[GJM]

SLG, probably not an issue in lower 48. I know when my wife harvested a brown bear with a Guide Gun, and I backed her up with my Guide Gun, we both fired a few shots, both topped off a few more, fired more, and topped off again. I like that the Marlin stays in a firing position as you top off.

[SLG]

SLG, probably not an issue in lower 48. I know when my wife harvested a brown bear with a Guide Gun, and I backed her up with my Guide Gun, we both fired a few shots, both topped off a few more, fired more, and topped off again. I like that the Marlin stays in a firing position as you top off.

Everyone has different preferences. As I think I've said before, LA's are just not the serious tool for me, that they can be for others.

I'm not writing off the 45-70 in anyway, as I'm actually going to start loading for it, but I'm leaning towards a 45Colt as a do everything LA. If Ruger 45C loads are capable of taking Cape Buffalo, I'm sure that out of a LA, those loads will approach 45-70 power. Lighter bullet, sure, but not sure what they couldn't handle on any continent if that's the case.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Good article, thanks for the link. Well written and pretty informative.

I have used Skinner sights for many years, but not the barrel mounted kind. How did you find them compared to a more traditional peep or ghost ring?

Hey, thanks very much. I'm really happy you found it worthwhile.

I found them quick as hell, although I have to admit that unlike a lot of people here, I don't think I'm super particular about sights. I'm not sure whether I'd notice a major difference between this and a lot of ghost rings. Definitely faster than any traditional peep sight I have used. I didn't spend a ton of time trying to wring out precision, though, so I can't comment too intelligently on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the skinner that was on there.

[SLG]

Hey, thanks very much. I'm really happy you found it worthwhile.

I found them quick as hell, although I have to admit that unlike a lot of people here, I don't think I'm super particular about sights. I'm not sure whether I'd notice a major difference between this and a lot of ghost rings. Definitely faster than any traditional peep sight I have used. I didn't spend a ton of time trying to wring out precision, though, so I can't comment too intelligently on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the skinner that was on there.

Ok, thanks. I will have to try them out sometime.

If you have other articles that you can link to online, I'm sure that would be appreciated by more than just me.

[SLG]

Let's see a picture of it.

I know of some guys in Wyoming who were supposedly, very successfully shooting elk with .357 lever guns, using LBT cast bullets. Sort of a mini Guide Gun/Garrett set-up.

You know I'm hypocritical, in that I love seeing (and asking for) photos, but I rarely post my own guns. Here is the David Clay that I gave my wife as a present a few years ago. He did an amazing job. His lever is the best sized and shaped I've ever used. Might be hard to tell from the pics, but he reshaped the wood to taper nicely and it not only fits the hand reallt well, it looks amazing. His attention to detail is really beyond the norm. He really made this gun into a great present, and though I won't show it, he engraved it to her for me as well. I like Skinner sights and Brockman sights, but these are David's own sights from XS. The bluing looks like old school Smith bluing as well. Just stunning in person, yet very basic and functional.


55395540

[SeriousStudent]

That is a beautiful rifle, I am sure she loved it.

May it bring her many years of happy service.

[HCM]

Wow. That is a beautiful carbine. I've been back and forth over the years on a 1894 Marlin vs a 1892 clone of some sort in .357. I have those sights on my 1895 Guide gun. they work well.

[GJM]

Beautiful lever, only suggestion might be protective ears on the front sight.

[SLG]

Beautiful lever, only suggestion might be protective ears on the front sight.

I'm not really a fan of ears. Unfortunately, though this was a legit present for the wife, I do shoot LA's a bit more than she does, so some of my preferences were factored in. She has not found them worth changing yet. Maybe down the road though.

[GJM]

I prefer a no ear sight picture, but after my wife's .375 slid in the back of the land cruiser in Zimbabwe, and knocked the front sight off, I have been a fan.

[SLG]

I prefer a no ear sight picture, but after my wife's .375 slid in the back of the land cruiser in Zimbabwe, and knocked the front sight off, I have been a fan.

How would the wings have prevented that?

[GJM]

How would the wings have prevented that?

The rifle would have landed on the protective ear, and not hit the front sight, moving it in the dovetail. I have a long gun, forgetting whether it is an 870 or lever gun, with a bent protective ear from a field trauma, but a straight front sight.

Brockman didn't start out with protective ears on his front sights on bolt and lever guns, but added them after our African experience.

[SLG]

The rifle would have landed on the protective ear, and not hit the front sight, moving it in the dovetail. I have a long gun, forgetting whether it is an 870 or lever gun, with a bent protective ear from a field trauma, but a straight front sight.

Brockman didn't start out with protective ears on his front sights on bolt and lever guns, but added them after our African experience.

I get that you have a gun with a bent ear and a straight sight, but I don't know that that means the same would have happened in your wife's case. It might have, and I wasn't there, so I'm not trying to monday morning qb it, just that I think there are a lot of factors that go into these things and many are out of our control and observation. I might certainly be wrong, and you may have the issue solved.

In either case, this .357 is a fun gun, nothing serious. On my serious guns, I remove the front sight altogether. Solves that issue nicely.

[Robinson]

SLG, that is a very cool lever gun. Love the tapered forestock.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Ok, thanks. I will have to try them out sometime.

If you have other articles that you can link to online, I'm sure that would be appreciated by more than just me.

Well, I have always felt a bit awkward about anything that seems too much like self-promotion so I really slow-play that stuff but if people would want to see it, I'm always happy to offer the content I have. The web edition is something like two months behind the print edition but there's always plenty of stuff on it that I could maybe put in one thread somewhere if people were interested.

In the meantime, did I ever mention the Savage 99 article? I'll bring it up here because it's also a lever, obviously.

This is one of my personal favourites.

http://calibremag.ca/the-99-arthur-savages-masterpiece/

[SLG]

Well, I have always felt a bit awkward about anything that seems too much like self-promotion so I really slow-play that stuff but if people would want to see it, I'm always happy to offer the content I have. The web edition is something like two months behind the print edition but there's always plenty of stuff on it that I could maybe put in one thread somewhere if people were interested.

In the meantime, did I ever mention the Savage 99 article? I'll bring it up here because it's also a lever, obviously.

This is one of my personal favourites.

http://calibremag.ca/the-99-arthur-savages-masterpiece/

I would love to have a .358win 99.

[JHC]

The video at the link but the bottom line is a Winchester 94 take down model available in among other calibers, .450 Marlin.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/new-guns-winchester-94-trails-end-takedown

[GJM]

The video at the link but the bottom line is a Winchester 94 take down model available in among other calibers, .450 Marlin.

http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/new-guns-winchester-94-trails-end-takedown

Good find!

[1slow]

Wish they made it in .45-70, logistics etc...
I have not seen good reliability fro .450 Marlins by Marlin when first produced. Something to do with a belted non rimmed case vs. a rimmed case .45-70 maybe ?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I would love to have a .358win 99.

Oh god yes, that'd be a hell of a bush gun.

[Malamute]

Wish they made it in .45-70, logistics etc...
I have not seen good reliability fro .450 Marlins by Marlin when first produced. Something to do with a belted non rimmed case vs. a rimmed case .45-70 maybe ?

The rim of a 45-70 wont fit between the walls of the action. It may also have problems with magazine tube diameter and the chamber underneath getting very thin.

I haven't handled a 450 in a 94. The 444 may be a good balance point in Winchester 94 action to cartridge ratio. If the 450 works though, no reason not to use it.

I don't know what the problem was with early Marlin 450's. I haven't heard of problems. Marlins work OK with rimless shells (35 rem for example), Winchester 94's, not as well. The cartridge guides on the sides of the receiver are part of the feed process. Some rim (or in this case belt) needs to be part of that function I believe.

The Marlin 336 action is slightly larger than the Winchester 94, which is how they managed to get a 45-70 into it. It did end up with a really thin spot on the bottom of the barrel where they machined the clearance for the magazine tube. Some early guns cracked the barrel there. They seem to have gotten it figured out, perhaps by different barrel steel or different heat treatment.

[dbateman]

The 450Marlin in the Win 94 works quite well, we have a shit ton of 444/450s over here.

[GJM]

Jim Brockman built my wife and me model 70 based .450 Marlin bolt action rifles. Gives you .458 WM lite performance in a small bolt gun, and takes advantage of the potential of that cartridge.

[StraitR]

Anyone have any experience with Big Horn Armory Model 89 (http://www.bighornarmory.com/catalog/big-horn-armory-products/model-89-carbine-2/)?

Not that I need one, but it sure is purdy, and I wouldn't mind blasting a coyote in the face with an 18" barreled S&W 500. Could be a good option for those carrying around the same caliber in a large framed revolver. A touch on the pricey side, though.

[Wheeler]

In a complete zig to everyone else's zag, I've decided I really need a Browning BLR chambered in .358 Winchester.

[JHC]

In a complete zig to everyone else's zag, I've decided I really need a Browning BLR chambered in .358 Winchester.

My perception is that would be safer choice for all around serviceability than a Model 99 which still has the cachet edge of course.

[Wheeler]

The BLR is an interesting design. The action is as strong as most high end bolt actions. It's also the only current production still chambered in the .358. Paco Kelly has an awesome article on the .358, I'll concede that it's better suited as a handloader's cartridge as factory offerings are slim.

[SLG]

In a complete zig to everyone else's zag, I've decided I really need a Browning BLR chambered in .358 Winchester.

Last I had heard, they used some plastic gears on it. Don't know how that matters, but it makes me pause. A takedown in 358 would be pretty cool.

[SLG]

Jim Brockman built my wife and me model 70 based .450 Marlin bolt action rifles. Gives you .458 WM lite performance in a small bolt gun, and takes advantage of the potential of that cartridge.

So, someone tell me how a 45 Colt using Ruger only loads would not come close to that level out of a 16" tube? I have to think it would be a pretty impressive package. Light, short, hard hitting, very reasonable recoil.