Current state of the AK

[Sanch]

Speaking of concentric threading for suppressors, does anyone have a recommendation on thread pitch adapters so you can take the standard AK threading M14 LH I think and convert to 5/8x24?

And if you do get an adapter, whats the best way to check concentricity? A friend bought some Geissele silencer checker rods that you put in the barrel and are supposed to look down from the suppressor and see equal light around the whole rod. Would that be safe enough to check if the threading is concentric and it will work?

[Suvorov]

Rob Ski is saying that Arsenal Bulgaria is shut down due to the Corona Virus. No more imports for now...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AF2poFHZw8

[rob_s]

Otherwise Brown/Silver Bear 125gr SP is the other budget option that’s cheap enough to be dual purpose.

what is a normal, non-panic, price per 1000 to pay for this? Right now it seems to be around $300/1k which strikes me as high...

[rob_s]

I had to stock up on AK mags when I got my PSA. I chose Bulgarian polymer mags with the steel inserts in the lips and some all steel Bulgarians...got them at CDNN, they all run flawlessly.


This?
https://www.cdnnsports.com/ak-762x39-30rd-bulgarian-steel-reinforced-lips-mag-28708.html?___SID=U


Yes sir, those, have about a dozen of them, some loaded to go to the range tomorrow. I cannot comment on long term durability or battleworthy character of those, but they have worked out just fine as range mags for my PSA range toy AK...never a malfunction yet at about 1700 rounds.

There was one that I had to run about 4 strokes of the file on the back steel edge where it locks, but the rest fit perfectly out of the box.

Ordered 10 of these just now.

Still no update as to when the actual gun may ship, let alone arrive.

[JRB]

what is a normal, non-panic, price per 1000 to pay for this? Right now it seems to be around $300/1k which strikes me as high...

For Brown Bear or Silver Bear, normally around $205-225/1000
Golden Tiger runs pretty damn well too.
The 154gr Tula soft point ammo was better than expected, and it drops hogs pretty decisively. You can notice the reduced velocity from the heavier bullet so your holdovers move accordingly but inside of 150-200yd it does just fine within reason.

For magazines, there's so many different AK's out there and so many different magazines, one should not scoff at some file work to make a particular magazine happy in a particular rifle. If you only have one or two AK's I wouldn't worry about modding mags, if you've got a brace of them, I lean toward small adjustments to the weapon instead of the magazines, so that mags stay completely happily interchangeable across all the guns nearby.

[Mike C]

Ordered 10 of these just now.

Still no update as to when the actual gun may ship, let alone arrive.

I was looking at their website last night and there was a notice that they are still shipping everything as normal and that there are currently no delays in manufacture of their products either. I believe I read somewhere else, (on their Facebook site I think) that they are averaging 10 days to shipment due to increase volume of orders. Hope you get it sooner, I hate feeling ghosted after plunking money down.

[rob_s]

Ordered 10 of these just now.

Still no update as to when the actual gun may ship, let alone arrive.

well, at least CDNN is on the shipping ball. Already got a confirmation email that at least the label has been created!

[fatdog]

Rob s, I just ordered a half dozen more myself and saw the same shipment label notice....after having been out of AK's for nearly a decade and having no AK mags on hand, and being a survivor of the Klinton years I know you can never have too many standard magazines in the armory.

[Suvorov]

I’ve had very good luck here - https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/Mags-and-Pouches-c164.htm

He still has a bunch of mags in stock. In the past the shipping has been very fast.

[rob_s]

Rob s, I just ordered a half dozen more myself and saw the same shipment label notice....after having been out of AK's for nearly a decade and having no AK mags on hand, and being a survivor of the Klinton years I know you can never have too many standard magazines in the armory.

Anyone that's been into semi-auto firearms since before or during the sunsetting of the AWB has PCSD. Post Clinton Stress Disorder. It's almost impossible to drum it out of us.

[rob_s]

what ever became of these guys? At one time they were gonna be god's gift to AK mags but I rarely see them mentioned now.

https://www.uspalm.com/ak-magazine

[HCM]

what ever became of these guys? At one time they were gonna be god's gift to AK mags but I rarely see them mentioned now.

https://www.uspalm.com/ak-magazine

Law suits.


https://www.primerpeak.com/ak-mag-design-licenced/amp/

[rob_s]

Law suits.


https://www.primerpeak.com/ak-mag-design-licenced/amp/

Jesus, that's clear as... mud. So US Palm isn't Tango Down? For some reason in my head I thought they were the same thing.

[HCM]

Jesus, that's clear as... mud. So US Palm isn't Tango Down? For some reason in my head I thought they were the same thing.

I don’t know but now that Magpul is making metal reinforced mags I don’t see a reason to mess with these. One big downside of the tango down US palm mags is that they can’t be taken apart for cleaning.

[awp_101]

Last I heard Century bought US Palm and was supposed to be bringing some of their stuff back to market.

[StraitR]

This mag by XTech looks a lot like the US Palm mag....

https://www.xtechtactical.com/product/mag47-30-round-ak-magazine/

[Hizzie]

XTech is thicc! If you like fat ass girls you’ll appreciate the Mag47. They don’t fit as well into mag pouches. Some gear makers actually have special pouches for them. I was unimpressed with them personally. I prefer magpul.

[rob_s]

This mag by XTech looks a lot like the US Palm mag....

https://www.xtechtactical.com/product/mag47-30-round-ak-magazine/

Yeah if you look in the link below they are somehow involved too. Trying to sort out who is who from that article is like trying to read the Old Testament (Joseph begat Gabriel begat Saul begat frank...)


Law suits.


https://www.primerpeak.com/ak-mag-design-licenced/amp/

In re-reading the above, it sounds like Tango Down designed the mag and manufactured it as US Palm, then sold the US Palm name to Century but now claims that US Palm didn’t own the design (something I’d bet they didn’t tell century when they sold the name). Century, thinking they own the design now, tell Xtech to stop making it. XTech cries to TD, TD tells century “hahaha, we only sold you a name not a design” and tells XTech to keep on keeping on.

Either way, now that Hizzie has posted, I do recall th mags being extremely fat, and so crossed them off my list of options, it it’s good to have all this discussion here for others in the future (and for me to reference back to when I inevitably forget this whole thing...)

[Vandal320]

At the bottom of the US Palm Magazine page are links leading to Century Arms, Red Army Standard, and Canik. "Our other brands". The Century Arms page has a link leading to the US Palms page.



Quick question? Is Riley Defense G2G or are they crap?

[Bratch]

Is the Ultimak still the go to optics mounting solution? At some point I wouldn’t mind dots on at least my Arsenal.

[frozentundra]

Is the Ultimak still the go to optics mounting solution? At some point I wouldn’t mind dots on at least my Arsenal.

I've not used it yet, but because I like lightweight rifles, I've been looking real hard at the Midwest Industries Gen2 handguard with T1 direct-mount top cover. However, my gun budget just went to zero because of kung flu.

https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/product-p/mi-akg2-umt1.htm

It's only 7.5 oz without an optic. I don't think it would heat up quite as fast as the Ultimak, which may or may not matter to you. You also gain the ability to mount a light via M-lok, so that makes it a nice all-in-one solution if you want a micro-dot sight, light, and sling mount (it has integrated qd sling sockets). You can also order the top section for other optic footprints, but I'm not sure which others will let you used the irons through the optic. I believe you can do so with the T1 and varients/clones. Military Arms YouTube channel has done a review. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8W0HuHKBOQ

I think RS Regulate has some high quality side rail mount options if you want to go that direction. A P-F member affiliated with their company posted in this thread above ^

[Hizzie]

I’m biased but I used RS Regulate for years in classes before coming on board. They are the best option available. The AK is already front heavy. Anything extra out front exacerbates this. I’ve used the MI Handguard with T1 upper. It sits higher than you expect. The barrel clamp is a giant heat sink and it gets damn hot.

I can try to answer any questions that anyone may have about RS, running optics on the AK or mounting weapon lights to the AK.

[rob_s]

all dressed up and no place to go (in other words, ammo and mags but nothing to put it in).
ETA:
I do see on PSA's site that the order is "shipped" although the UPS site says "waiting for package" or whatever. At least it's a sign there's movement. Question is, will the shop even be open to receive it...


mags arrived yesterday
https://www.cdnnsports.com/ak-762x39....html?___SID=U

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50311

50312

50314

All the relevant parts appear to be steel...

50307

50308

50309



I'm pretty sure there was a puff of mummy dust when I cracked open these two ammo cans. They haven't been opened in at least 5 years. I completely forgot about the stuff on stripper clips. I bought that years ago when I was wanting to get an SKS and a case of stripper-clipped ammo just to stash away somewhere.

50306

50305

[rob_s]

I’m biased but I used RS Regulate for years in classes before coming on board. They are the best option available. I can try to answer any questions that anyone may have about RS, running optics on the AK or mounting weapon lights to the AK.

I'm interested in learning, but man the pricing is daunting, as are frankly all the different options and combinations of various lower mounts, upper mounts, forward, middle and rear bias, different lengths...

I don't know that I'm in the market to put an RDS on my impending PSA Zhukov, but if I was, what would you recommend as the "easy button" both in terms of optic, combination of mounting parts, cost, lowest dot height, and weight?

[Caballoflaco]

all dressed up and no place to go (in other words, ammo and mags but nothing to put it in).
ETA:
I do see on PSA's site that the order is "shipped" although the UPS site says "waiting for package" or whatever. At least it's a sign there's movement. Question is, will the shop even be open to receive it...


mags arrived yesterday
https://www.cdnnsports.com/ak-762x39....html?___SID=U

50310

50311

50312

50314

All the relevant parts appear to be steel...

50307

50308

50309



I'm pretty sure there was a puff of mummy dust when I cracked open these two ammo cans. They haven't been opened in at least 5 years. I completely forgot about the stuff on stripper clips. I bought that years ago when I was wanting to get an SKS and a case of stripper-clipped ammo just to stash away somewhere.

50306

50305

The m67 is good ammo, but corrosive. I always washed my rifle out with a garden hose after shooting it and never had a problem.

[the Schwartz]

I’m back and forth on keeping my SAM7R. I like it but I never shoot it, and seems like the money I could get for it could go towards some things that’d get much more use. Wish the market was stronger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Like other markets; "Buy fear, sell greed."

With the coming apocalypse, just wait until it is well underway and you can sell the SAM7R (greedy people will want it) for several ounces of gold.

Just remember, the real money is in the ammo. One ounce of silver per bullet. ;)

[Wake27]

Like other markets; "Buy fear, sell greed."

With the coming apocalypse, just wait until it is well underway and you can sell the SAM7R (greedy people will want it) for several ounces of gold.

Just remember, the real money is in the ammo. One ounce of silver per bullet. ;)

I actually sold it last weekend to an LGS. Didn’t get anywhere near what I wanted but I didn’t have to worry about finding a box and shipping or it even doing a transfer since CO requires that by law. I’m trying to sell the ammo and mags now, it’s surprisingly more difficult than I expected given online ammo sales.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PNWTO]

Great thread.

I’m eagerly waiting for the PSA experiences to trickle into P-F. I think the AK-V/AK-P duo would cover all my PDW/HD/S&G needs.

I also think the AK-V with the OEM brake would be fantastic for my wife.

[masternave]

Have we discussed sling strategy? I prefer a simple two point sling, but my usual strategy goes a little haywire with folders and underfolders.

[Hizzie]

I'm interested in learning, but man the pricing is daunting, as are frankly all the different options and combinations of various lower mounts, upper mounts, forward, middle and rear bias, different lengths...

I don't know that I'm in the market to put an RDS on my impending PSA Zhukov, but if I was, what would you recommend as the "easy button" both in terms of optic, combination of mounting parts, cost, lowest dot height, and weight?

For most people with a standard side mount the AK301M/AKML/Micro RDS combination will be the ticket. Personally I prefer 30mm RDS over the Mirco’s. Another member here prefers a rear biased micro to deal with his astigmatism.

I know RS isn’t cheap. My username is a discount code. Alternatively you can find used deals on the various message boards or FB AK groups.

[Bratch]

For most people with a standard side mount the AK301M/AKML/Micro RDS combination will be the ticket. Personally I prefer 30mm RDS over the Mirco’s. Another member here prefers a rear biased micro to deal with his astigmatism.

I know RS isn’t cheap. My username is a discount code. Alternatively you can find used deals on the various message boards or FB AK groups.

What combination is recommended without a standard side mount? There is the MI up thread and the Ultimak. I wasn’t aware of the MI so I’m sure I’m missing something else too.

[Hizzie]

What combination is recommended without a standard side mount? There is the MI up thread and the Ultimak. I wasn’t aware of the MI so I’m sure I’m missing something else too.

Ultimak > MI

I used to recommend the AK Master Mount but a buddy ended up having issues with his.

Another option is to have a qualified gunsmith install a quality side mount plate.

[frozentundra]

I’m biased but I used RS Regulate for years in classes before coming on board. They are the best option available. The AK is already front heavy. Anything extra out front exacerbates this. I’ve used the MI Handguard with T1 upper. It sits higher than you expect. The barrel clamp is a giant heat sink and it gets damn hot.

I can try to answer any questions that anyone may have about RS, running optics on the AK or mounting weapon lights to the AK.

Curious what is your standard solution for mounting a light on a regular AK?

Also:
I converted a Saiga years ago. It runs great, and it groups well with Golden Tiger, but I've never done anything about optics or the stock handguard because I didn't want to add too much weight. I thought the MI handguard would be an easy solution for the handguard problem on a Saiga. Any advice for my specific situation?

I tend to carry my rifles over long distances in the wilderness more than I shoot extended sessions with a very high rate of fire. That's why I'm more worried about overall weight than most people who are predominantly shooting a high volume at the range and always using a vehicle to tote them around.

[Bigghoss]

Curious what is your standard solution for mounting a light on a regular AK?

Also:
I converted a Saiga years ago. It runs great, and it groups well with Golden Tiger, but I've never done anything about optics or the stock handguard because I didn't want to add too much weight. I thought the MI handguard would be an easy solution for the handguard problem on a Saiga. Any advice for my specific situation?

I tend to carry my rifles over long distances in the wilderness more than I shoot extended sessions with a very high rate of fire. That's why I'm more worried about overall weight than most people who are predominantly shooting a high volume at the range and always using a vehicle to tote them around.


Some nice light mounts if you don't want a whole new handguard. I have the lower one and it tucks a 1" light tight against the gun nicely.
https://khybercustoms.com/accessory-mounts/

https://khybercustoms.com/akm-yugo-light-mounts/

Never tried the MI handguard myself. The Magpul Zhukov works well for a Saiga but it's not the lightest thing out there. I've seen lots of guys just bolt a piece of pic rail to a stock Saiga handguard.

[nalesq]

I used to recommend the AK Master Mount but a buddy ended up having issues with his.

What kind of issues? The kind that developed over time? I ask because I am currently using one on an Arsenal SLR and want to know what to look for if it’s going to start failing on me.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[StraitR]

For most people with a standard side mount the AK301M/AKML/Micro RDS combination will be the ticket. Personally I prefer 30mm RDS over the Mirco’s. Another member here prefers a rear biased micro to deal with his astigmatism.

I know RS isn’t cheap. My username is a discount code. Alternatively you can find used deals on the various message boards or FB AK groups.

That's me, and mounting it closer to my eye (as seen in pics upthread) cured the "looking through a dark straw" effect I get when mounting micros at the most forward end of AR receivers. I did just remove that T-2 for a new PDW (also now mounted closer to my eye), so I'm back to irons on the AK for now.

I do believe RS Regulate is the way to go, particularly for those who prefer to keep things light. I have a buddy that runs the MI mount (for MRO), and he hasn't had issues with it, but he has said he'll spend more for the RS mount on future AK's.

[Hizzie]

Curious what is your standard solution for mounting a light on a regular AK?

Also:
I converted a Saiga years ago. It runs great, and it groups well with Golden Tiger, but I've never done anything about optics or the stock handguard because I didn't want to add too much weight. I thought the MI handguard would be an easy solution for the handguard problem on a Saiga. Any advice for my specific situation?

I tend to carry my rifles over long distances in the wilderness more than I shoot extended sessions with a very high rate of fire. That's why I'm more worried about overall weight than most people who are predominantly shooting a high volume at the range and always using a vehicle to tote them around.

RS Regulate BM1 with Vltor/6P or Thorntail/Scout has become my default for a plain rifle. Now add an Mlok HG and I like the IWC SMC with a Scout.

So for an unconverted front end Saiga I would go for something from Carolina Shooters Supply. I ran this with an IWC Radial Mount/Scout combo. https://www.carolinashooterssupply.com/CSS_Saiga_rifle_forearm_Ar_style_ventilated_VEPR_p/css-rifle-ar-slots.htm

p/BmBm9_QHRyt

p/BltG1-nHF6v

p/BltDmlvnpaG

p/BeL63v_j830

[Hizzie]

What kind of issues? The kind that developed over time? I ask because I am currently using one on an Arsenal SLR and want to know what to look for if it’s going to start failing on me.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ended up not being parallel to bore. Couldn’t zero.

[nalesq]

Ended up not being parallel to bore. Couldn’t zero.

Ah, OK. That would be super annoying. I had no issues zeroing with mine, so I should be good to go.


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[rob_s]

So I'm intrigued by these, but I think I'm about to order the standard
PSAK-47 GF3 FORGED ZHUKOV RIFLE, GRAY (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-gray.html)

because

it's available and the "enhanced" isn't
it's $240 less expensive
I'm not sure how much I'll really shoot the thing (this is largely a "want" and a "pre-election panic" purchase)



My question is, am I missing anything or buying into any potential issues with the "Zhukov"? Does the furniture actually suck, is the folding stock a pain to use, does the longer handguard add weight for no reason... anything else I might be missing?

Also, what else should I get while I'm getting. Pretty sure I have ammo and mags from the last AK I owned. Any particular "new" mags that I should get while I'm getting? is there a partilcar P-mag that's good/bad? One that's "serious" and one that's "training"?

49894

Picked this up today. Was obviously trying to get in and out ASAP. Looks pretty cool so far. I don't think I realized that the stock was adjustable. Nor did I know that it has that "bolt hold" notch where you can pull it back, ease it forward, and the bolt will stay open until you really rack it or it gets bumped hard. That was something I had completely forgotten about in AKs and didn't realize was a feature of this gun.

It included one mag of unknown pedigree. I'll have to get further into the box later.

[StraitR]

Picked this up today. Was obviously trying to get in and out ASAP. Looks pretty cool so far. I don't think I realized that the stock was adjustable. Nor did I know that it has that "bolt hold" notch where you can pull it back, ease it forward, and the bolt will stay open until you really rack it or it gets bumped hard. That was something I had completely forgotten about in AKs and didn't realize was a feature of this gun.

It included one mag of unknown pedigree. I'll have to get further into the box later.

Nice. I’m glad this finally made its way to you.

I didn't know “bolt hold” was a thing. Interesting.

[Arbninftry]

Is the Ultimak still the go to optics mounting solution? At some point I wouldn’t mind dots on at least my Arsenal.
The Ultimak is a strong option for a Red Dot mount. I have them on several of my AKs, and even Rifle Dynamics ships their guns with them on an AK

[Hizzie]

Picked this up today. Was obviously trying to get in and out ASAP. Looks pretty cool so far. I don't think I realized that the stock was adjustable. Nor did I know that it has that "bolt hold" notch where you can pull it back, ease it forward, and the bolt will stay open until you really rack it or it gets bumped hard. That was something I had completely forgotten about in AKs and didn't realize was a feature of this gun.

It included one mag of unknown pedigree. I'll have to get further into the box later.

It’s not a “feature”. The resistance of the hammer dragging on the carrier is the cause.

[rob_s]

It’s not a “feature”. The resistance of the hammer dragging on the carrier is the cause.

well, whatever it is, I like it so far! :p

[fatdog]

The PSA is just friction I think, but I love the Krebs notch on the safety for that purpose.

[rob_s]

The PSA is just friction I think, but I love the Krebs notch on the safety for that purpose.

Pretty sure I had one of those on my old AK. I think I had one of the ones with a notch and the extended shelf, and my recollection was that I liked the notch but could do without the shelf. From my notes on my previous 365 days of AK...


I kept the Blackjack Swift extended safety lever on the gun for the duration of this experiment. While I came to appreciate it, especially the bolt-hold-open notch for admin purposes, I also came to see it as unnecessary. The notch could be added to the stock safety with a couple of minutes with some hand tools, and it is not the hardship that I thought it would be to swipe off the standard safety, nor to re-engage it.

[fatdog]

The late Paul Gomez taught me "AK" and I came to appreciate the Krebs "ledge" as an easier way to disengage and a good position for my trigger finger to reside, just the manual of arms I learned with the thing. Clearly just a little file time is all that is required for the notch.

I saw that the notch comes from the factory on the new Century VSKA, a fellow gun club member is trying to sell me his...I am reluctant based on the overall Century reputation, but this guy make me an attractive offer and I did get to shoot the sample he has.

[Bigghoss]

I really like the "enhanced" style safeties with the ledge, personally. But I don't have much need to even lock the bolt open so I prefer no notch. I much prefer the AKOU enhanced safety to the Krebs.

[Hizzie]

Something AK related I wrote for JTT. Lemme know what you think.

https://jerkingthetrigger.com/2020/04/07/guest-post-a-decade-with-the-ak/

[Suvorov]

Something AK related I wrote for JTT. Lemme know what you think.

https://jerkingthetrigger.com/2020/04/07/guest-post-a-decade-with-the-ak/

Very good write up! Lays it out right there for a novice and even for me pretty much seals the deal on running HSG tacos.

Also - you don’t happen to be the same AK shooting Matt that lived in the Bay Area 10 or so years ago?

[Hizzie]

Very good write up! Lays it out right there for a novice and even for me pretty much seals the deal on running HSG tacos.

Also - you don’t happen to be the same AK shooting Matt that lived in the Bay Area 10 or so years ago?

Negative. I’m the guest. Matt posted on my behalf. I’m mentioned at the bottom.

[Suvorov]

Roger that. I guess I should have read the fine print :o

[JSGlock34]

I'm always interested to see how the AK is evolving in Russian military service. I also find it fascinating that Aimpoint CompM4s are apparently in use too...

The War Zone: Russian Commandos Jump From 33,000 Feet Over The Arctic In Unprecedented Exercise
(https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/33190/russian-commandos-jump-from-over-30000-feet-over-the-arctic-in-unprecedented-exercise)

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[rob_s]

Pandemic being what it is I still haven’t gotten to shoot/zero the AK, but I did get some sling hardware for it. Although I forgot about the fact that Magpul thinks we can install their qd cups without a screw...at least I got a sticker.

56113

56114

56115

[Hizzie]

Are milled AK’s are too heavy? Nah.

p/CBiJj1SAjnN

[rob_s]

What are some good current options for belt-attached 7.62 ak mag pouches? Preferably something that would work with a mix of polymer and steel mags would seem like a prudent way to go.

HSGI Taco seems a good option but their “belt mount” seems to leave a bit to be desired. Are there other, maybe polymer, maybe quick-attach, ways to attach a Taco to a belt?

https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/13TA-13TA.html

[Rick R]

I use the polymer Tacos with a Tek Lok bolted to the back. One of their pistol/rifle Tacos so equipped rides in my SBR bag with my 10.5” AR pistol.

[Suvorov]

What are some good current options for belt-attached 7.62 ak mag pouches? Preferably something that would work with a mix of polymer and steel mags would seem like a prudent way to go.

HSGI Taco seems a good option but their “belt mount” seems to leave a bit to be desired. Are there other, maybe polymer, maybe quick-attach, ways to attach a Taco to a belt?

https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/13TA-13TA.html

That's what I have been using, it's really the only thing I found that offers me the flexibility to use all the AK mag varieties. T,he belt attachment seems to be solid but it's kind of a PITA to get on as you have to undo your belt and thread it through to get it on and off. Once on it doesn't slide around any more than any other belt attached do-dad. They are also a little tight for my liking - the plus of that means that they retain the magazine well and there is not problem pulling the magazine free, but there is a learning curve and still a little fumbling to get the magazine in the pouch, especially when you keep the magazine at the 7-8 o'clock.

[rob_s]

That's what I have been using, it's really the only thing I found that offers me the flexibility to use all the AK mag varieties. T,he belt attachment seems to be solid but it's kind of a PITA to get on as you have to undo your belt and thread it through to get it on and off. Once on it doesn't slide around any more than any other belt attached do-dad. They are also a little tight for my liking - the plus of that means that they retain the magazine well and there is not problem pulling the magazine free, but there is a learning curve and still a little fumbling to get the magazine in the pouch, especially when you keep the magazine at the 7-8 o'clock.

I find myself wondering if there aren't some sort of blade-tech or even just metal clips that would attach to the molle on the back but still allow a quick on/off without threading the belt.

[rob_s]

I use the polymer Tacos with a Tek Lok bolted to the back. One of their pistol/rifle Tacos so equipped rides in my SBR bag with my 10.5” AR pistol.

ah perfect. Any pics or tutorial on how you made the connection? I assume it's solid?

I think I even have some tek lok and maybe even a taco in the workshop now that I think about it...

ETA:
well double dumbass on me, I didn't even know there was a polymer taco until I replied and then googled.
https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/16TA00-16TA00.html

[Rick R]

ah perfect. Any pics or tutorial on how you made the connection? I assume it's solid?
https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/16TA00-16TA00.html

The Tek Lok on back of the polymer Taco is solid. I may have augmented it by sticking a piece of 3M double sided tape between them before adding the screws/bolts, I do that with kydex knife sheaths. I’ve also added a Tek Lok to an original style Taco by using wire ties thru the holes in the Tek Lok and then around the elastic in the body of the Taco. I was surprised how well it stayed put but the polymer Taco is more better.

[That Guy]

I find myself wondering if there aren't some sort of blade-tech or even just metal clips that would attach to the molle on the back but still allow a quick on/off without threading the belt.

https://wildertactical.com/products/molle-belt-clip-adapter

I didn't find the clip to be all that reliable in holding onto the belt, myself, but part of the reason may be the pouch I was using with it had a really weird implementation of molle, so the clip didn't quite go on it right. What ever the reason, I found putting the pouch on my belt a bit fiddly, as I had to take care the clip grabs onto the bottom of the belt. Removal of the pouch was very easy. But at $8 a piece, not an expensive thing to try.

[ER_STL]

Great thread with great information. Hopefully this is the right place for my questions; feel free to redirect if appropriate.

I've got an unconverted Saiga 16" in 7.62x39 that I bought back in 2008 at the same time that I bought an Arsenal SGL-21. I had planned on seeing if I could do the conversion on the Saiga to bring it back in line with a standard AK but didn't have access to the necessary tools to do it correctly (for moving the FGC and installing a bullet-guide). Fast-forward to 2020 - the rifle is still unfired and is collecting dust in my safe.

In your opinion, is it worth either converting the Saiga or having it done? I know the SGL-21 was built off of the Saiga receiver and barrel but I know very little about the AK platform to understand the level of quality that the Saiga brings. I'm reading that it's solid but would benefit from additional feedback here.

Thanks!

[JRB]

Great thread with great information. Hopefully this is the right place for my questions; feel free to redirect if appropriate.

I've got an unconverted Saiga 16" in 7.62x39 that I bought back in 2008 at the same time that I bought an Arsenal SGL-21. I had planned on seeing if I could do the conversion on the Saiga to bring it back in line with a standard AK but didn't have access to the necessary tools to do it correctly (for moving the FGC and installing a bullet-guide). Fast-forward to 2020 - the rifle is still unfired and is collecting dust in my safe.

In your opinion, is it worth either converting the Saiga or having it done? I know the SGL-21 was built off of the Saiga receiver and barrel but I know very little about the AK platform to understand the level of quality that the Saiga brings. I'm reading that it's solid but would benefit from additional feedback here.

Thanks!

The 'back half' conversion is pretty straightforward with a traditional AK pattern stock, pistol grip, and FCG. I did one to a Saiga-12 with a kit from Carolina Shooters Supply. The 'front half' conversion to install the correct handguard retainer and front sight block involves a press and removing the front sight block, gas block, etc, and of course requires those correct parts which are in somewhat short supply these days.
Midwest industries makes a nice Saiga compatible handguard and I think I'd go with that and have the muzzle threaded instead of going for 100% SGL level correct, which is much less involved.
For the 7.62x39, you'll also need to weld or rivet a bullet guide in place to use the military AK mags.

Alternatively, sell it unconverted for a premium to someone in a ban state like NY that doesn't allow for an AK in anything resembling a 'normal' configuration.

The SGL's were super desirable because they were Russian guns with Russian CHF barrels finished with Bulgarian military parts and just enough US made stuff for 922(r). They command insane prices these days.

[Caballoflaco]

Great thread with great information. Hopefully this is the right place for my questions; feel free to redirect if appropriate.

I've got an unconverted Saiga 16" in 7.62x39 that I bought back in 2008 at the same time that I bought an Arsenal SGL-21. I had planned on seeing if I could do the conversion on the Saiga to bring it back in line with a standard AK but didn't have access to the necessary tools to do it correctly (for moving the FGC and installing a bullet-guide). Fast-forward to 2020 - the rifle is still unfired and is collecting dust in my safe.

In your opinion, is it worth either converting the Saiga or having it done? I know the SGL-21 was built off of the Saiga receiver and barrel but I know very little about the AK platform to understand the level of quality that the Saiga brings. I'm reading that it's solid but would benefit from additional feedback here.

Thanks!

If you want a good AK that’s a great starting point imo. I’m not sure who to recommend for the conversion right now, but Hizzie or Casual Friday might have an idea. Another forend option would be the one from SLR rifle works. The thing I like about it is that unlike every other ak fire end out there is that it only attaches to the barrel at the trunion which makes it free floating.

https://slrrifleworks.com/ak-parts/ak-handguards/

The guys on 9Hole reviews used one on an Saiga build and liked it.

[Suvorov]

Great thread with great information. Hopefully this is the right place for my questions; feel free to redirect if appropriate.

I've got an unconverted Saiga 16" in 7.62x39 that I bought back in 2008 at the same time that I bought an Arsenal SGL-21. I had planned on seeing if I could do the conversion on the Saiga to bring it back in line with a standard AK but didn't have access to the necessary tools to do it correctly (for moving the FGC and installing a bullet-guide). Fast-forward to 2020 - the rifle is still unfired and is collecting dust in my safe.

In your opinion, is it worth either converting the Saiga or having it done? I know the SGL-21 was built off of the Saiga receiver and barrel but I know very little about the AK platform to understand the level of quality that the Saiga brings. I'm reading that it's solid but would benefit from additional feedback here.

Thanks!

I think this would make a wonderful rifle! I don’t know of any AK smiths who do this though and AK work is much less plug and play than AR work. Alternatively you could probably sell this rifle on gunbroker for enough money to buy you a new Zastava M70, a half dozen magazines, and a case or two of ammo.

I think it really depends on how much you want a “real Russian AK” and the bragging rights that go with it vs how much you just want a good AK.

[Hizzie]

In no particular order:

CW Gunwerks
InRange
Definitive Arms
Meridian Defense

M13 Industries has been removed from my list over multiple people complaining of poor communication and missed delivery dates.

Yugo guns are a No Go for me.

[Caballoflaco]

In no particular order:

CW Gunwerks
InRange
Definitive Arms
Meridian Defense

M13 Industries has been removed from my list over multiple people complaining of poor communication and missed delivery dates.

Yugo guns are a No Go for me.

Non chrome- lines barrels and if I’m gonna have the the weigh of a 1.5mil stamping it might as well be from a killed recurved. Sold my underfolder after owning it for two whole weeks.

[Casual Friday]

If you want a good AK that’s a great starting point imo. I’m not sure who to recommend for the conversion right now, but Hizzie or Casual Friday might have an idea. Another forend option would be the one from SLR rifle works. The thing I like about it is that unlike every other ak fire end out there is that it only attaches to the barrel at the trunion which makes it free floating.

https://slrrifleworks.com/ak-parts/ak-handguards/

The guys on 9Hole reviews used one on an Saiga build and liked it.


In no particular order:

CW Gunwerks
InRange
Definitive Arms
Meridian Defense

M13 Industries has been removed from my list over multiple people complaining of poor communication and missed delivery dates.

Yugo guns are a No Go for me.

Last time I talked to Tony at Meridian, he was swamped and not taking any gunsmithing work to catch up on builds.

Sad to hear about M13, but any of the others on that list are good to go.


Non chrome- lines barrels and if I’m gonna have the the weigh of a 1.5mil stamping it might as well be from a killed recurved. Sold my underfolder after owning it for two whole weeks.

A lot of them had heat treat issues as well. I have a friend who SBR'd a M92 PAP and had the FCG holes egg out on him in no time, had to be removed from the NFA registry, rebuilt on a new receiver, then Form 1'd all over again.

[StraitR]

Lots of new Arsenal SLR-107R models on Gunbroker right now if anyone is so inclined. Lowest "Buy Now" I see is $1275 (free shipping, no CC fees). Guessing we'll see these sell out and watch that price go up as they're resold closer to election time.

[Suvorov]

So who is a good AK Smith to send a preban or Saiga rifle to?

As for the PAPs, the newer (Non Century) ones seem to be fine as far as heat treating goes and are now chrome lined.

[Hizzie]

Yugo guns have been plagued with shit QC and poor heat treat. Add in the non-combloc elements those guns have that limit accessories and they aren’t worth it.

[Suvorov]

Yugo guns have been plagued with shit QC and poor heat treat.

Are those issues specific to Century guns or do they apply to the imports of the 1980s and post Century rifles?

[Hizzie]

Are those issues specific to Century guns or do they apply to the imports of the 1980s and post Century rifles?

I’m specifically talking about the Zastava made gun from last 10 years. The previous Century guns were all contract built that varied from exceptional to absolute turd. I had an excellent M70AB2. Both of the Zastava made OPAP’s I owned were turds. Soft receivers. Regardless of when they were made or by whom the Yugo pattern guns are different. Stocks and handguards are limited although the aftermarket is improving. Some grips don’t work. Oddball optic rails. As someone pointed out the weight penalty makes milled receiver guns more attractive.

[Bigghoss]

Are those issues specific to Century guns or do they apply to the imports of the 1980s and post Century rifles?

It's still the same factory making them so I wouldn't right now. It's possible Century wanted them to hit a price point so they cut corners or that they have addressed the issues but as far as I have heard, only the importer has changed.

I don't know about the older guns.

And don't forget that the Serbian guns don't take standard furniture. It's not hard to mod a Magpul MOE handguard to fit an M92 and Midwest and some others do make handguards for them. I think Magpul did a version of the Zhukov stock for the M70 rifle. So it's not hard to set one up nicely. But overall I'd look for a Romanian.

I picked up a new RH10 last year for under $600 and it came with Magpul furniture on it. And it is pretty smooth out of the box. I was very impressed and so was the resident AK guy at the gun shop. Not that either of us are experts or anything.

A few years ago I was trying to decide between an M92 and a Draco. I guess the heat treat issues weren't as well known because I never saw anyone mention any problems with them and I felt like I did my homework before I purchased. I only learned of the problems after I had bought an M92 and started tricking it out. I haven't put a ton of rounds through it but enough to be confident in it's function. I didn't see any deformation in the pin holes so hopefully I got a good one but I put in an adjustable gas piston and got new pins and a retainer plate anyway to hopefully minimize any egging. The retainer plate is a good idea regardless.

When the market calms down I'll search for a Romanian Draco or two.

[Hizzie]

Bigghoss

The RH10 is built in Cugir with the wasr. It’s basically an oddball WASR. The FSGB, RPK rear sight and odd height side rail are all the differentiates it from a standard WASR. It is a combloc pattern rifle and solid at that. Century puts that Magpul furniture on it. I like the Magpul grip and standard length handguard. I hate all the Zhukov stuff. The HG’s are too heavy and the stock has poor lockup.

[Bigghoss]

Bigghoss

The RH10 is built in Cugir with the wasr. It’s basically an oddball WASR. The FSGB, RPK rear sight and odd height side rail are all the differentiates it from a standard WASR. It is a combloc pattern rifle and solid at that. Century puts that Magpul furniture on it. I like the Magpul grip and standard length handguard. I hate all the Zhukov stuff. The HG’s are too heavy and the stock has poor lockup.

I was aware, which is why I wanted one. Having had 3 previous WASRs, I knew it'd be good but the action was quite a bit smoother than I expected.

It's funny, I remember when WASRs were considered bottom of the barrel because of issues with canted sights, crooked rear sights, sloppily hogged out magwells and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. I have an older WASR-10 from then, the muzzle threads were ground off and it came with the "Toilet Seat" thumbhole stock. The front sight is straight and the magwells isn't too bad but the rear is crooked. Not sure if it's the leaf or the block but since it doesn't have muzzle threads I figured I'd throw a cheap red dot on it and just use it as a range toy.

One of my work buddies sold me a 10-63 with a P&W muzzle brake for dirt cheap and threw in a small pile of mags. That one may have been roughly the same vintage as my first one, or at least from back when the WASR was questionable. The front sight tower was ever so canted but after I saw it I just couldn't unsee it so I sold it with full disclosure to someone who said they could fix it. When the guy finally saw it in person he said he wasn't going to bother fixing it because it was barely canted, still zero-able as it was. But between the funky muzzle brake and that I wasn't that into it.

I'm not crazy about the Zhukov handguard but it was an easy way to get an M-lok handguard on my Saiga. The shorter Zhukov-U is preferable to the original that I put on my first WASR.

The Zhukov stock isn't my first choice but between that or the cheap wood Cugir uses I'd rather have the Magpul stuff. If nothing else I can sell it. But I'm not you or Rob Ski so they work fine for me.

[Caballoflaco]

ER_STL while I still need to replace the factory hand guard on my saiga I think it’s a great rifle. I did a back end conversion back in the mid 00’s and it’s been a solid shooter ever since. It’s a solid 2.5moa rifle with ammo it likes. The only thing I would do differently is not add an ace stock adaptor that required cutting the rear stock tang.

I also have a Bulgarian SLR and while I prefer the factory folder on it I kinda like the saiga more.

[ER_STL]

Again, thanks to all for the great information. I'm in the shallow end of the technical pool for sure when it comes to rifles. I had planned on selling my AKs and moving over the AR platform but it sounds like AK is still going strong. I simply want a solid platform on which to learn.

My last question to be answered - and possibly in a different thread - is the 5.45 vs 7.62 debate for the suburban get-out-of-my-neighborhood rifle...

[JRB]

Again, thanks to all for the great information. I'm in the shallow end of the technical pool for sure when it comes to rifles. I had planned on selling my AKs and moving over the AR platform but it sounds like AK is still going strong. I simply want a solid platform on which to learn.

My last question to be answered - and possibly in a different thread - is the 5.45 vs 7.62 debate for the suburban get-out-of-my-neighborhood rifle...

I really like my 5.45 guns, but with 7N6 surplus steel core a thing of the past, a 5.45 AK is a distinct third place behind 7.62x39 and 5.56.
These days, a 5.45 is basically a more reliable and 'authentic' way of getting 5.56 performance out of an AK, but with much more limited ammo options and availability. Unless you're into collecting combloc stuff for fun like I was, I'd stick to 7.62x39 for AK's - especially 'working' AK's. 7.62x39 offers fantastic performance against vehicles and there's a ton of inexpensive ammo and ammo varieties out there.

For a working gun in general, I'd recommend an AR over an AK for a myriad of reasons not the least of which is the appearance of it being a 'good guy' rifle. Very few good guys and virtually zero LE use AK's for any reason. But if the appearance doesn't concern you and you're happy to practice and work around the AK's limitations, 7.62x39 all the way.

[Caballoflaco]

I really like my 5.45 guns, but with 7N6 surplus steel core a thing of the past, a 5.45 AK is a distinct third place behind 7.62x39 and 5.56.
These days, a 5.45 is basically a more reliable and 'authentic' way of getting 5.56 performance out of an AK, but with much more limited ammo options and availability. Unless you're into collecting combloc stuff for fun like I was, I'd stick to 7.62x39 for AK's - especially 'working' AK's. 7.62x39 offers fantastic performance against vehicles and there's a ton of inexpensive ammo and ammo varieties out there.

For a working gun in general, I'd recommend an AR over an AK for a myriad of reasons not the least of which is the appearance of it being a 'good guy' rifle. Very few good guys and virtually zero LE use AK's for any reason. But if the appearance doesn't concern you and you're happy to practice and work around the AK's limitations, 7.62x39 all the way.

This is the truth as far as caliber goes. I wish I’d picked up 5.45 when spam cans were 90.00 and the pigs had Bakelite mags for 5.00. But I didn’t so I rock on with 7.62 and don’t worry about it.

I’ll disagree on good guy gun part though. With AR’s being so common and commonly used in mass shootings and other crimes now days any long gun not being held by a dude in a uniform is going to get you lots of negative attention if you aren’t in a uniform.

[Casual Friday]

I’ll disagree on good guy gun part though. With AR’s being so common and commonly used in mass shootings and other crimes now days any long gun not being held by a dude in a uniform is going to get you lots of negative attention if you aren’t in a uniform.

I don't particularly care about the optics of owning and shooting AKs, but the stigma of being the bad guys' gun is real in certain circles. I got my first AK in 98 with my HS graduation money. For $350-400 I got the rifle, a pile of mags, and a bunch of ammo. Couldn't touch an AR for that at that time. One of my first trips to the range with it, I encountered a Nam vet who absolutely lost his shit over me having it. He had to be calmed down by the people he was with and we could still see him ranting in the rear view mirror as we were leaving. It's not something I've ever encountered again in person, but my time in FB gun groups showed that is still a commonly held belief with a lot of old people.

[Caballoflaco]

I don't particularly care about the optics of owning and shooting AKs, but the stigma of being the bad guys' gun is real in certain circles. I got my first AK in 98 with my HS graduation money. For $350-400 I got the rifle, a pile of mags, and a bunch of ammo. Couldn't touch an AR for that at that time. One of my first trips to the range with it, I encountered a Nam vet who absolutely lost his shit over me having it. He had to be calmed down by the people he was with and we could still see him ranting in the rear view mirror as we were leaving. It's not something I've ever encountered again in person, but my time in FB gun groups showed that is still a commonly held belief with a lot of old people.

Good point, I was more thinking about police response and authorities in my post. I have had old guys give me shit about shooting ak’s on the range, but not on that kind of level and more 2005ish timeframe than now.

I’ve also helped convince a few guys they weren’t the shit rifles they thought they were when they shot against me at some local carbine matches. And that is exactly the way I got turned on to AK’s (and the price). We had a dude who would show up every once in a while with a post-ban milled Arsenal with one the 3 port muzzle brakes and he ran that rifle like a raped ape. After the first match I shot with him on the same squad I realized all that stuff I had “learned” about aks was garbage.

[Hizzie]

I’ve had professional instructors flat tell me “No AK’s” when I’ve tried to sign up for classes. I’ve been given shit on the line by fellow students. I even had an instructor rip the line a new one because the best group at 100yds was (the asshole with the AK, shooting shitty steel cased ammo.”

Embrace your inner villain.

p/BaW2TF_j4rn

[Bigghoss]

I’ve had professional instructors flat tell me “No AK’s” when I’ve tried to sign up for classes. I’ve been given shit on the line by fellow students. I even had an instructor rip the line a new one because the best group at 100yds was (the asshole with the AK, shooting shitty steel cased ammo.”

Embrace your inner villain.

p/BaW2TF_j4rn

If you can't join 'em, beat 'em. :cool:

[Bigghoss]

My last question to be answered - and possibly in a different thread - is the 5.45 vs 7.62 debate for the suburban get-out-of-my-neighborhood rifle...

I have nothing revolutionary to add. Small bore AK's are a bitch because with 5.45 there isn't much choice for ammo but at least the mags are cheap. With 5.56 the ammo is cheap and there's lots of options but there's no standard pattern so the mags are expensive and not super widely available. I've heard the argument that 5.56 doesn't work well in AKs but I don't really buy that. I've seen knowledgeable folks on both sides of that argument but the Poles, Isralies, and Finns seem to have figured it out. I've not shot my two 5.56 AKs much but I've got a few hundred down them and never had a hint of a problem except for two Promags that came with my Saiga and dialing in my KNS adjustable gas piston on the same gun. You could always spend the money and get an AR magwell installed on an AK.

Stick with 7.62x39 for the time being. It's just easier.

[entropy]

An instructor dictating weapon type? What was the reason for this? I’ve seen more than a few ARs that wouldn’t run worth a poop in a class for various reasons. We all have. Seems to me that if the instructor wants to do that, his own thinking or skill set may be in itself limited. I’d spend my hard earned money with someone else.

[awp_101]

Bah, I really need someone to talk me out of the m85 5.56 pistol I mentioned several pages back. The shop is only open for transfers so every time I go in it’s still on the consignment wall whispering to me...

[entropy]

Oh...you should buy it. No question. ;)

My PSA Krink-thing is the most fun I’ve shooting in a long time.

You can thank me later...lol

[Screwball]

My PSA Krink-thing is the most fun I’ve shooting in a long time.

Yep... definitely a cool gun.

https://i.imgur.com/XYSdtUs.jpg

[awp_101]

Oh...you should buy it. No question. ;)

My PSA Krink-thing is the most fun I’ve shooting in a long time.

You can thank me later...lol

The funny thing is it would give me a 5.56 AK pistol to go with my 7.62x39 AR pistol. I’m not sure if I’d be PDWing wrong or really really right?;)

[Bigghoss]

Bah, I really need someone to talk me out of the m85 5.56 pistol I mentioned several pages back. The shop is only open for transfers so every time I go in it’s still on the consignment wall whispering to me...

The Serbian guns have inconsistent heat treating in the receivers so it's a gamble if you get a good one or one with a soft receiver.. And if it's a model with the plastic AR15 magwell I heard those don't hold up well either. If it's not, then you have to hunt down the proprietary mags for it. Just don't do it.

[Suvorov]

Yugo guns have been plagued with shit QC and poor heat treat. Add in the non-combloc elements those guns have that limit accessories and they aren’t worth it.


The Serbian guns have inconsistent heat treating in the receivers so it's a gamble if you get a good one or one with a soft receiver.. And if it's a model with the plastic AR15 magwell I heard those don't hold up well either. If it's not, then you have to hunt down the proprietary mags for it. Just don't do it.

The issue of compatibility with COMBLOC elements is a valid point but seems to be countered by the fact that most of the top tier manufactures do make Yugo versions of most of their handguards, rails, etc. In the end I guess it depends on what you are wanting to do with the rifle.

As far as the quality control - my understanding is that the NPAP guns imported by Century were purchased at a price point that resulted in poor quality control at the factory. Century denies this but Zastava broke ties with them and is now bringing them into the country under their own banner.

Has the heat treating issue been solved? All I can go in is a sample of 3 that have not shown any issues with heat treating - the two Robski has tested and my own personal ZPAP that has about 1100 rounds through it yet (I realize not much time but about the time some of the Century guns were showing their poor heat treatment). Rob has also tested a number of newer Yugo "pistols" without issue.

I had some trigger issues with my ZPAP when I purchase and it but I also had trigger issues with my SAR-1 (although the SAR-1 came with crazy crooked front sight cant and a heck of a lot of trigger slap) - I just chalk that to buying guns from Socialist countries.

This will be the first place I'll post any issues with my rifle.

The newer ZPAPs have the 1.5 mm receivers which is claimed to be due to customer demand (although a cynic might say it is because they can't get the 1mm sheet metal properly heat treated) and chrome lined barrels. Given the asking price of $800, they are certainly worth considering against the Romanian guns.

Switching gears - I have an early Arsenal SA93 that I have put some Ironwood furniture on and would like to have the barrel threaded and proper gas block and front sight put on. Are there any good AK Smiths that you could recommend for a "de-banning"?

[Hizzie]

An instructor dictating weapon type? What was the reason for this? I’ve seen more than a few ARs that wouldn’t run worth a poop in a class for various reasons. We all have. Seems to me that if the instructor wants to do that, his own thinking or skill set may be in itself limited. I’d spend my hard earned money with someone else.

In fact one of the Instructors that told me “NO” had to cancel for low enrollment. I spend my money, or used to before marriage/house/kids, where it is appreciated. I was lucky enough to find good instructors.

[Hizzie]

The two bad OPAP’s I had were 1.5mm receivers with the bulged RPK barrel trunions. It’s not the receiver thickness that’s the issue, it’s their heat treat skill and lack of QC.

[JRB]

I have nothing revolutionary to add. Small bore AK's are a bitch because with 5.45 there isn't much choice for ammo but at least the mags are cheap just expensive instead of ridiculously expensive

Fixed that for you. Quality 5.45 mags were stupid cheap 15 years ago, but now one must pay $40+ each for decent milsurp mags.


The two bad OPAP’s I had were 1.5mm receivers with the bulged RPK barrel trunions. It’s not the receiver thickness that’s the issue, it’s their heat treat skill and lack of QC.

Personally I think the QC/QA issue is real but has been blown out of proportion. When the OPAP's came into the US my partner and I sold a boatload of them, mostly to our friends. Zero issues with any of them. Same with a lot of M92 PAP's we sold when dealer cost was still under $400.

But I am seriously thinking of getting an SLR-107R and selling my OPAP to offset the cost.

[Bigghoss]

Fixed that for you. Quality 5.45 mags were stupid cheap 15 years ago, but now one must pay $40+ each for decent milsurp mags.


What about the AK74 Pmags?

[JRB]

What about the AK74 Pmags?

Hit and miss. I bought four 5.45 Pmags, and two cause problems in both of my 5.45 guns. The other two work great.

I got six of the 5.45 AC-Unity mags sold by RTG parts and so far so good but I haven't shot enough with them to trust them 100% just yet. They also have an AC-unity 5.56 AK mag that many were looking forward to but I have no experience with those since I don't have a 5.56 AK.

My small accumulation of Bulgarian circle 10 and East German bakelite mags are 100% in both of my 5.45 guns. For serious use I'd still go 100% Bulgarian circle 10's.

[Bigghoss]

I got six of the 5.45 AC-Unity mags sold by RTG parts and so far so good but I haven't shot enough with them to trust them 100% just yet. They also have an AC-unity 5.56 AK mag that many were looking forward to but I have no experience with those since I don't have a 5.56 AK.

I have an Arsenal SLR-106 which is a 5.56 AK, mags are $50 each. I'll have to grab a few of the AC-Unity mags to try. I have a handful of the Bulgarian mags if for whatever reason I really needed 100% reliable mags. So even if the AC's are only mostly reliable I could at least have beater mags for the range. RTG says coming soon so it looks like they're not out yet maybe? I got lucky and found a 5.56 Saiga at the LGS as they were liquidating to shut down so it was only $500 and the SGM mags for that are *only* $28 a piece.

[GJM]

There is an AK, that was just in the news in Austin, that I bet can be bought cheap.

[rob_s]

What are some good current options for belt-attached 7.62 ak mag pouches? Preferably something that would work with a mix of polymer and steel mags would seem like a prudent way to go.

HSGI Taco seems a good option but their “belt mount” seems to leave a bit to be desired. Are there other, maybe polymer, maybe quick-attach, ways to attach a Taco to a belt?

https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/13TA-13TA.html


I use the polymer Tacos with a Tek Lok bolted to the back. One of their pistol/rifle Tacos so equipped rides in my SBR bag with my 10.5” AR pistol.


That's what I have been using, it's really the only thing I found that offers me the flexibility to use all the AK mag varieties. T,he belt attachment seems to be solid but it's kind of a PITA to get on as you have to undo your belt and thread it through to get it on and off. Once on it doesn't slide around any more than any other belt attached do-dad. They are also a little tight for my liking - the plus of that means that they retain the magazine well and there is not problem pulling the magazine free, but there is a learning curve and still a little fumbling to get the magazine in the pouch, especially when you keep the magazine at the 7-8 o'clock.


I find myself wondering if there aren't some sort of blade-tech or even just metal clips that would attach to the molle on the back but still allow a quick on/off without threading the belt.


ah perfect. Any pics or tutorial on how you made the connection? I assume it's solid?

I think I even have some tek lok and maybe even a taco in the workshop now that I think about it...

ETA:
well double dumbass on me, I didn't even know there was a polymer taco until I replied and then googled.
https://www.highspeedgear.com/hsgi/16TA00-16TA00.html


The Tek Lok on back of the polymer Taco is solid. I may have augmented it by sticking a piece of 3M double sided tape between them before adding the screws/bolts, I do that with kydex knife sheaths. I’ve also added a Tek Lok to an original style Taco by using wire ties thru the holes in the Tek Lok and then around the elastic in the body of the Taco. I was surprised how well it stayed put but the polymer Taco is more better.


https://wildertactical.com/products/molle-belt-clip-adapter

I didn't find the clip to be all that reliable in holding onto the belt, myself, but part of the reason may be the pouch I was using with it had a really weird implementation of molle, so the clip didn't quite go on it right. What ever the reason, I found putting the pouch on my belt a bit fiddly, as I had to take care the clip grabs onto the bottom of the belt. Removal of the pouch was very easy. But at $8 a piece, not an expensive thing to try.

Got my polymer Taco and Tek Lok clip and assembled them. Forgot that blade tech only includes three screws but I’m sure this attachment pattern will be fine. I guess the three are meant to go down the center.

Going to try and play around with it this evening.

58101

58102

58103

[rob_s]

what do we like for "best" safety with shelf/notch? Links to a specific model that will work with my PSA appreciated. Not knowing all of the terminology I'm looking at Krebs website not entirely certain which is the right model, for example.

[fatdog]

I have two gen 3 PSA's and each has one of these (https://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/safety-parts/safeties/ak-47-74-enhanced-safety-prod54766.aspx), dropped right in, no bending or nothing.

[Caballoflaco]

I don’t like the notch on enhanced safeties, would rather use a chamber flag and not have a hole in the dust cover.
I know on some ranges etc it’s easier for people, but I’ve never seen the point.

[rob_s]

I don’t like the notch on enhanced safeties, would rather use a chamber flag and not have a hole in the dust cover.
I know on some ranges etc it’s easier for people, but I’ve never seen the point.

notch or no, what lever do you like?

[Caballoflaco]

notch or no, what lever do you like?

I’ve got orangutan fingers and am a cheap bastard so I still run standard safeties like it was 2005. The Krebs MKVI linked up thread should fit your rifle and nobody I know has had a problem with them (the only one in stock on Krebs website is for saigas and has the detent further foward on the lever) But I couldn’t find any in stock anywhere with a quick search.

I also just found this on AK operator union’s store that I’m going to buy. It should fit your rifle as well, but isn’t notched if that’s a concern.

https://shop.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/AK-Enhanced-Safety-Selector-Lever-Mod-2-AK-E-Safety-Lever-Mod2.htm

[Bigghoss]

what do we like for "best" safety with shelf/notch? Links to a specific model that will work with my PSA appreciated. Not knowing all of the terminology I'm looking at Krebs website not entirely certain which is the right model, for example.

I like the AK Operators Union enhanced safety over the Krebs. Although I haven't tried the AKOU second gen safety. I also have tried the Legion USA safety.

I would avoid ones with the BHO notch.

[rob_s]

Pandemic being what it is I still haven’t gotten to shoot/zero the AK, but I did get some sling hardware for it. Although I forgot about the fact that Magpul thinks we can install their qd cups without a screw...at least I got a sticker.
56114

56115

Really feeling stupid here, or I’m missing something.

Tracked down the Magpul sling cup with screw included. Oddly it’s slightly longer, and apparently larger OD, than the one I bought with no screw. All I want is to have QD sockets on either side of the stock. Didn’t know it was going to be such a pain in the ass!

I absolutely have the skills and tools to force all of this to work, but I feel like there should be an easier plug-n-play option here that I’m somehow missing. Past experience has taught me that usually when I have to start cutting and drilling and hammering on brand new parts I’m generally doing something wrong or have the wrong parts.
The small hole in both sockets is threaded, meaning even if all this was to work I’d have to first thread the screw through one, then stick it into the stock, then insert the other, and then somehow turn everything to tighten, except that the knurled bits are supposed to keep them from turning... or I could drill out the threads on one socket but that doesn’t resolve the other issue below of one socket being too long. Or the screw, which I won’t know how much to cut off until it’s installed, at which point I may not be able to get it out...

Here you can see the shorter one that came with no screw, and the longer that came with the screw (which, also seems to me to be too long).

58207


This is the shorter of the two sockets, inserted on either side, sitting flush with the plastic (as I’d expect them to)
58208. 58209


The longer socket, that came with a screw, that won’t go in to the stock without banging on it, which I’m reluctant to do since then it’s going to just sit proud.
58210


Here you can *almost* tell that the longer one is ever so slightly fatter than the shorter one.
58211

[Hizzie]

New handguard dropped today. It’s a mere 3.75oz with hardware. It’ll allow you to keep your cleaning rod and you can swap over the heat shield from your oem poly handguards.

p/CDUXkAipe2X

[Hizzie]

Finally got the new GKR-7MS installed. Helpful tip - use a heat shield. It traps the front bracket making life so much easier.

p/CDjQRdapJ_N

p/CDhb22qp0zH

[Joe in PNG]

How not to do it:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nQzFGe1yMk

[TGS]

My observation over the last year of lightly looking around for a plain-jane wood stocked AK is that for such a legendary gun, it's pretty hard to find one that isn't poorly built and unreliable or even dangerous.

Anyone have any ideas on who I can commission to build a Yugo M76 that won't be a pile of shit like the mainstream M76 builders? Anyone have info about Two Rivers Arms? They seem to have not updated their site in a while/it always lists out of the stock on everything.

[Caballoflaco]

My observation over the last year of lightly looking around for a plain-jane wood stocked AK is that for such a legendary gun, it's pretty hard to find one that isn't poorly built and unreliable or even dangerous.

Anyone have any ideas on who I can commission to build an M76 that won't be a pile of shit like the mainstream M76 builders? Anyone have info about Two Rivers Arms? They seem to have not updated their site in a while/it always lists out of the stock on everything.

Paging Hizzie

[Hizzie]

Troy and InRange would be my first suggestion.

[helothar]

Troy and InRange would be my first suggestion.

Although I don't have a ton of experience with a variety of builders this would be my recommendation as well. A number of years back I had a Bulgarian 74 kit built by a company which I believe is defunct now and they totally screwed up the receiver. I recently sent it to Troy at In Range and he rebuilt it on a new receiver and did a fantastic job.

[JRB]

My observation over the last year of lightly looking around for a plain-jane wood stocked AK is that for such a legendary gun, it's pretty hard to find one that isn't poorly built and unreliable or even dangerous.

Anyone have any ideas on who I can commission to build a Yugo M76 that won't be a pile of shit like the mainstream M76 builders? Anyone have info about Two Rivers Arms? They seem to have not updated their site in a while/it always lists out of the stock on everything.

Not sure exactly why, but the individually commissioned builds from Two Rivers that I've seen were fantastic, and their 'production' sort of builds as sold by Classic Arms were nice but just a little bit off from their commissioned builds. I suppose that could be expected.

If you already have an M76 kit with a good barrel and a Tortort 80% or similar I'm sure that Two Rivers would build it very nicely if they accepted the build. If not, I've examined a few and shot an Assault Weapons Ohio (AWO) M76 and I was pleased with the result.
Delivered expected accuracy for a rifle like that (4-5in groups at 200 yd with PPU brass 8mm) with one jam due to a round 'nose diving' in the magazine. The mags are apparently sensitive to OAL of the ammo and not all commercial 8mm is the same in that regard. My only real beef with the AWO build as an AK nerd was the incorrect-for-military cerakote/gunkote whatever glossy black finish on the metal and the over-finished wood.

Around 2012-2013 I did encounter a CAI M76 on a shooting range, and the owner was having issues with his handloads, but factory ammo was running fine and shot well enough that he was always hitting the steel he aimed at. I wanted to ask to try a few rounds but he didn't seem all that interested in chatting so I left him be after commenting on his rifle. CAI builds being what they are, I'd bring headspace gauges and check out bolt lug wear etc on any CAI I considered.

[Up1911Fan]

Considering putting a deposit on a Rifle Dynamics RD701. This would be my first and likely only AK. Just want one nice one in the safe to get to know the gun a bit. Thoughts on these or alternatives in this gun buying climate?

[Suvorov]

Considering putting a deposit on a Rifle Dynamics RD701. This would be my first and likely only AK. Just want one nice one in the safe to get to know the gun a bit. Thoughts on these or alternatives in this gun buying climate?

They have been pretty spotty. Rob Ski reviewed one and had tons of issues and others have as well. That said he is in the middle of reviewing one of their new AK74s and it has performed well AFAIK. As far as American made AKs go, it seems the Palmettos are the best bet. Kalashnikov USA is out now and may be worth the wait.

I just picked up a newer ZPAP and have decent luck with my previous one though others on this forum will tell you to stay away from Yugos. If you can find one you can’t go wrong with a good Romanian and Arsenal are out there if you are willing to pay the premium.

[Hizzie]

I was personally unimpressed with the RD builds I handled.

Arsenal SAM7SF is my personal favorite. If I had a mulligan I would go 762x39 Galil ACE. It’s the only off the shelf AK that improves on the SF IMO.

Definitive Arms and Meridian Defense also come to mind for top tier builds.

[mrozowjj]

I have vague memories of Bulgarian Arsenals going for $400-500 back in 2003. Has the AK market changed that much?

[Suvorov]

I have vague memories of Bulgarian Arsenals going for $400-500 back in 2003. Has the AK market changed that much?

I remember when I could buy 20 rounds of .223 for $3.50 back when Aresenals were imported though Michigan.

It’s changed about that much. I saw a nice Arsenal at the LGS for $2300 (although the same range was selling Red Army Standard 762x39 for $17/20). Russian guns are a thing of the past along with Chinese, Hungarian and Egyptian guns, and what were lower end Romanian WASRs and Yugoslav/Serbian PAPs are running close to $1000. The writing is on the wall for the remaining imports now that “yes we can wipe our ass with the Constitution Kamala” is set to be the defacto POTUS so there has been a concerted effort to produce AKs domestically with a handful of companies doing it.

Today a decent AR will cost you less than an import AK.

[fatdog]

I have vague memories of Bulgarian Arsenals going for $400-500 back in 2003. Has the AK market changed that much?

Yes. 3-5X that for the same guns now.

I picked up a Palmetto gen 3 back in January and have run the snot out of it this year. At least 4K rounds and zero problems. Mine runs just like the commie made guns of old, more accurate than the commie/ex-commie guns I have owned over the years, but all it is to me is a range toy. I have no idea how their guns are doing in the really high round count long term testing, but as a range toy it is clearly the best buy on the market.

[FAS1]

I have vague memories of Bulgarian Arsenals going for $400-500 back in 2003. Has the AK market changed that much?

Yea, I have been considering a good quality AK as well. Here's the current MSRP on their website.

SAM7SF-84E 7.62x39mm Semi-Automatic Rifle with Enhanced Fire Control Group
SAM7SF Series 7.62x39 Milled Receiver with Enhanced FCG Side Folding Buttstock 10rd Mag

MSRP: $1,799.99
SKU: SAM7SF-84E

https://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/sam7sf.html#:~:text=The%20SAM7SF&text=This%207.62x39%20caliber%20rifle,of%20dependa ble%20and%20accurate%20service.

[mrozowjj]

I guess I should have clarified; I know guns are going up in price but $1800 for an AK seems... silly to me. I remember back in 2003 at least the perception then was the AK was the platform you get when you don't have the money for the more expensive AR; especially because back then surplus 7.62 was everywhere and it was dirt cheap. I remember vaguely ARs being closer to $1000-1200 at the time.

I was a gun newb at the time so I don't know if that $400 AK back then was junk or if it was actually solid so I guess what I should have asked instead of what I posted when I was half asleep was back in 2003-2004 was a $400 AK solid or junk? If it was junk what was a decent price then for a solid AK? I'm trying to determine how much of this inflation is due to import kits drying up and current events and how much was just my perception of quality having changed in the last 17 years.

[Caballoflaco]

I guess I should have clarified; I know guns are going up in price but $1800 for an AK seems... silly to me. I remember back in 2003 at least the perception then was the AK was the platform you get when you don't have the money for the more expensive AR; especially because back then surplus 7.62 was everywhere and it was dirt cheap. I remember vaguely ARs being closer to $1000-1200 at the time.

I was a gun newb at the time so I don't know if that $400 AK back then was junk or if it was actually solid so I guess what I should have asked instead of what I posted when I was half asleep was back in 2003-2004 was a $400 AK solid or junk? If it was junk what was a decent price then for a solid AK? I'm trying to determine how much of this inflation is due to import kits drying up and current events and how much was just my perception of quality having changed in the last 17 years.

What we’ve learned, especially since people started trying to build AK’s in the states, is that the $400 wasr’s were decent guns. You might have needed to hand pick through them to find one with straight sights, but the important parts had good metallurgy and were actually manufactured to spec. and didn’t beat themselves to death. It’s actually quite expensive to set up the manufacturing of quality AK’s and the only reason they were ever cheap is that commie factories had been in existence for 30 or 40 years churning them out and after the fall of the Soviet’s they were willing to sell at a low price point to the commercial market. Demand went up due to GWOT and market pricing reacted accordingly. Add in import bans and here we are.

In my experience the $400 wasr I bought back then is the functional equivalent of the $700 Arsenal slr I bought a few years later. I just got a nicer folding stock and less sharp pointy bits and plastic furniture.

[Casual Friday]

I got into AK's in 1998 when I turned 18. They were still dirt cheap, mags were not ridiculously priced like AR mags during the 94 AWB, and X39 ammo was also dirt cheap.

I would not have gotten into them if I had to pay today's prices, or even a few years ago prices. I keep my ear to the ground in the AK world just enough to know that US made AK's like Palmetto are still not where they should be but are getting there.

I'm glad to have the 3 that I own, and if prices and demand keep going up I will have a hard time not selling 2 of them and just keeping the AK that I built from a parts kit. I have so much X39 ammo stockpiled that even knowing what a pain in the dick they are to run reliably, I've considered building a X39 AR upper just so I can keep shooting for a long time and not have to dip into my 5.56 stockpile.

[mrozowjj]

What we’ve learned, especially since people started trying to build AK’s in the states, is that the $400 wasr’s were decent guns. You might have needed to hand pick through them to find one with straight sights, but the important parts had good metallurgy and were actually manufactured to spec. and didn’t beat themselves to death. It’s actually quite expensive to set up the manufacturing of quality AK’s and the only reason they were ever cheap is that commie factories had been in existence for 30 or 40 years churning them out and after the fall of the Soviet’s they were willing to sell at a low price point to the commercial market. Demand went up due to GWOT and market pricing reacted accordingly. Add in import bans and here we are.

In my experience the $400 wasr I bought back then is the functional equivalent of the $700 Arsenal slr I bought a few years later. I just got a nicer folding stock and less sharp pointy bits and plastic furniture.

That's good info. Thank you. I guess if I ever get the AK bug again I'll buy an IWI Galil.

[Guerrero]

That's surprising to hear that Rifle Dynamics guns aren't top dog.

[Suvorov]

That's surprising to hear that Rifle Dynamics guns aren't top dog.

They really aren’t on my radar the same as Nighthowks and Wilson’s are not on my pistol radar. I am just a simple man trying to get by in the galaxy with out of the box guns.

[Hizzie]

Yea, I have been considering a good quality AK as well. Here's the current MSRP on their website.

SAM7SF-84E 7.62x39mm Semi-Automatic Rifle with Enhanced Fire Control Group
SAM7SF Series 7.62x39 Milled Receiver with Enhanced FCG Side Folding Buttstock 10rd Mag

MSRP: $1,799.99
SKU: SAM7SF-84E

https://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/sam7sf.html#:~:text=The%20SAM7SF&text=This%207.62x39%20caliber%20rifle,of%20dependa ble%20and%20accurate%20service.

MSRP has gone up $400 on those. I got mine pretty early when nobody wanted them cuz the stock mechanism looks odd. I got each of mine used for $950 and $900 respectively.

[rd62]

I bought two Arsenal SGL-21s when W was in office for $400 a piece and mistakenly sold them during Obama's second term for about $1200 each. With the import ban a quick gunbroker search shows a NIB sample listed closer to $4k. I wouldn't pay that much but it was a damn fine Russian made AK, so at $400 it was a hell of a deal! I'd buy a new one at $1200 but would settle for an Arsenal SLR for about the same coin.

Some AKs were a hell of a steal years ago.

[Suvorov]

I bought two Arsenal SGL-21s when W was in office for $400 a piece and mistakenly sold them during Obama's second term for about $1200 each. With the import ban a quick gunbroker search shows a NIB sample listed closer to $4k. I wouldn't pay that much but it was a damn fine Russian made AK, so at $400 it was a hell of a deal! I'd buy a new one at $1200 but would settle for an Arsenal SLR for about the same coin.

Some AKs were a hell of a steal years ago.

Not a day goes by that I don’t kick myself for not buying an Izzy when I had the chance.

[Up1911Fan]

With something like an Arsenal SLR 107, can the fixed stock be swapped for a side folder?

[helothar]

With something like an Arsenal SLR 107, can the fixed stock be swapped for a side folder?

If youre looking to do a triangle or polymer side folder like appears on the ak74m it is not as simple as a swap, the receiver has to be cut and new hardware installed. There are options such as the romainian/polish wire side folders which will work with the standard rear trunion, or the magpul zukhov stock. Some other companies offer other side folding options but the folding mechanism is going to increase the LOP as the folding mechanism is outside of the trunion. I believe zenitco (russian company that makes ak stuff) has a stock that will work with the standard fixed stock ak trunion

[rob_s]

I started this thread in 2015. I didn’t buy an AK until this year (you can scroll back through the thread to find out what that was if you care). It still sits unfired. This has more to do with me than the gun, I just simply lack the initiative to shoot guns just to shoot them, and without a purpose for shooting the Ak I haven’t even gotten up the gumption to fu cation check and sight it in.

What I’ve learned in the 6 years since starting this thread is that the AK is more of a niche, contrarian, gun that it ever was. 25-ish years ago when I bought my ban-era SLR95 it was frankly because I couldn’t afford the bushmaster I wanted. 5 years later when shooting matches (by that time with an actual job and the cash to buy an AR) the guys that were shooting aks were, without question, doing to because the guns were cheaper. Some were honest with themselves about that fact, others less so.

Today, we are at an odd crossroads of the golden age of the platform in terms of accessories available, yet peak anachronism in the selection of the platform due to high prices, import restrictions, etc. Exponentially so when one chooses it as their primary. AK shooters can’t even claim to be winning the caliber argument with all the various calibers available for the 5.56-frame (vs the 7.62-frame) AR, particularly the 300wtf.

But I’m still glad I bought mine. :cool:

[fatdog]

With something like an Arsenal SLR 107, can the fixed stock be swapped for a side folder?

For the magpul version, yes.

[Hizzie]

With something like an Arsenal SLR 107, can the fixed stock be swapped for a side folder?

The 107R with its traditional fixed stock will accept and folder that is designed for the fixed stock trunion. It may require fitting lime anything else for the AK. Personally I had terrible luck with the pair of Zhukov folding stocks I owned. They lock easily failed from light lateral pressure. They were not comfortable to shoot either. It reminded me of the infamous “Yugo cheek slap” the Zastava fixed stock guns have. I would suggest the Bonesteel/CNC Warrior side folding stock. Rock solid folding mechanism. The Rommy/Polish wire folders work pretty well too. Polish Beryl stocks also will fit. If you don’t ever plan on going back you can chop the tang and go with the Ace or Stormworks style folder.

[JSGlock34]

Is the Arsenal SLR-107CR no longer available? I purchased mine over a decade ago and can't say enough good things about it. I'm sure they're hard to find and pricier than ever, but if looking for the polymer folder, it's a great modern design. The CR is essentially an AK-104, with the folding polymer stock, and the combined front sight/gas block that allows for a 12.5" barrel if so desired (the CR ships with a 16" barrel and a neat faux muzzle booster, but is perhaps among the easiest rifles to SBR later).
https://www.k-var.com/content/images/thumbs/0120578_arsenal-slr107cr-65-762x39mm-sbr.jpeg

[Caballoflaco]

The 107R with its traditional fixed stock will accept and folder that is designed for the fixed stock trunion. It may require fitting lime anything else for the AK. Personally I had terrible luck with the pair of Zhukov folding stocks I owned. They lock easily failed from light lateral pressure. They were not comfortable to shoot either. It reminded me of the infamous “Yugo cheek slap” the Zastava fixed stock guns have. I would suggest the Bonesteel/CNC Warrior side folding stock. Rock solid folding mechanism. The Rommy/Polish wire folders work pretty well too. Polish Beryl stocks also will fit. If you don’t ever plan on going back you can chop the tang and go with the Ace or Stormworks style folder.

I’ve got a Saiga I converted back in the day with an ace stock (tang cut version) and have been happy with it.

rob_s yeah I was one of those guys shooting an AK in matches in the early ought’s because it was cheaper. The other thing back in those days is that it was noticeably more reliable than a lot of the AR’s simply because they were running busted up old magazines due to the AWB.

I still have and really like my AK’s. However, I don’t recommend them as somebody’s first rifle anymore. When you price out accessories just to add a dot and flashlight the economics just aren’t there.

[DueSpada]

As a first rifle for tweakafying, a Kalashnikov was never a convenient choice. As a first rifle for an older, more elemental purpose, it is still as good as it ever was.

[Caballoflaco]

As a first rifle for tweakafying, a Kalashnikov was never a convenient choice. As a first rifle for an older, more elemental purpose, it is still as good as it ever was.

As good as it was sixty years ago, technology has changed.

Adding light so you can see in the dark (because the dark is scary) and an optic isn’t tweakifying it’s adding capability. Having to buy a $100 + dollar side rail or fire arm to reliably add a modern optic is not optimal.

An iron sighted rifle with no light or provision for ir/night-vision is an obselescent fighting gun.

[DueSpada]

By Jove, you're right, the darn thing does need a light. And me just sworn off duct tape.

[Caballoflaco]

By Jove, you're right, the darn thing does need a light. And me just sworn off duct tape.

It’s an obsolescent rifle that is produced using obsolescent manufacturing techniques. Practice ammo is of mediocre quality and not produced domestically (subject to import bans). Many ranges ban any magnetic ammunition.

Until two or three years ago there were no domestically produced trunions or bolts of any quality. I don’t know if there are even 6 shops in the entire country I would trust to replace a shot out or damaged barrel, or do any repair that required removing or re-installing rivets. I think there are two companies who make quality domestic barrels. Want a narrow shank bolt for a Saiga? Sorry, they’re sold out forever.

I addition to the difficulty in addidng optics and lights that I mentioned earlier there just isn’t enough infrastructure for the system in the US. It’s a bad choice as a first rifle for someone getting started out in 2020 when equal or less money will get them a quality AR.

Sincerely- a dude who’s primary rifle and home defense long gun is still an AK, but who wouldn’t let a friend with no experience go down the same road. A lot has changed in 18 years.

[Hizzie]

By Jove, you're right, the darn thing does need a light. And me just sworn off duct tape.

It’s not that difficult.

p/CC7RBeLJSkw

[Up1911Fan]

What do we like for mags, say under $20 apiece?

[HCM]

What do we like for mags, say u see $20 apiece?

For that price, Eastern European steel.

Zastava USA has a Bakelite type bolt hold open mag with steel reinforced feed lips and locking tabs for about the price (ir 6 for $99).

For serious use the m3 mag pulls with steel reinforcement runs $26 to $29

[JSGlock34]

Wow. I am astonished to see the current price of Bulgarian Circle 10 polymer waffle magazines. I had always considered them the gold standard for AK mags, but I can't believe they're $50 each now.

[Totem Polar]

Since I haven’t seen them mentioned, and these guys are local to me, I’ll leave this link here:

https://occamdefense.com/

FWIW.

[Casual Friday]

Wow. I am astonished to see the current price of Bulgarian Circle 10 polymer waffle magazines. I had always considered them the gold standard for AK mags, but I can't believe they're $50 each now.

*boomer rant warning*

I bought a bunch when they were $20+- which was borderline insanity then. Crusty but functional Romy mags were around $6 each too. They're just not worth $50 and up. Same with Bakes and Plums, people done lost they're damn minds. I blame the Zoomer larpers for driving the price up.

I've had good luck with Magpul AK mags, even the ones with plastic locking lugs and no steel reinforcement.

[Casual Friday]

Since I haven’t seen them mentioned, and these guys are local to me, I’ll leave this link here:

https://occamdefense.com/

FWIW.

He's a good dude. I recognized him in town one day and spoke to him briefly. Nice guy, bigger in person than on camera and his hands are like catchers mitts.

[HCM]

The Zastava BHO mag

64928

[Caballoflaco]

The Zastava BHO mag

64928

Do those work like the steel Yugo mags that use the follower to hold the bolt open? Those always mess up my mag change mojo since they require more force to remove because you’re working against the bolt.

[HCM]

Do those work like the steel Yugo mags that use the follower to hold the bolt open? Those always mess up my mag change mojo since they require more force to remove because you’re working against the bolt.

Yes.

[Up1911Fan]

I put the RD idea on the back burner. K-Var has Arsenal 107R's for $1299.

[JRB]

I put the RD idea on the back burner. K-Var has Arsenal 107R's for $1299.

I'm very happy with my 107R. Given the current state of things, I'd happily pay $1299 for a 107R over any of the numerous $1000+ used WASR's etc currently on the market.

[Suvorov]

I put the RD idea on the back burner. K-Var has Arsenal 107R's for $1299.

That’s really a good move. The window on the guns may be shut very soon and you’ll be glad you bought a top shelf rifle. Strike fast though.


Do those work like the steel Yugo mags that use the follower to hold the bolt open? Those always mess up my mag change mojo since they require more force to remove because you’re working against the bolt.

I see where you are coming from. Having only spent the last year really concentrating on learning the ways of the AK, I prefer the Yugoslavian pattern just due to the fact that after 30 years on the AR platform the lack of a bolt hold open is just hard for me to mentally deal with.

[rd62]

I'm very happy with my 107R. Given the current state of things, I'd happily pay $1299 for a 107R over any of the numerous $1000+ used WASR's etc currently on the market.

Amen

[fatdog]

I put the RD idea on the back burner. K-Var has Arsenal 107R's for $1299.

I followed your lead here and picked up one of those K-Var 107R's as I do not own any ex-commie made imports and I fear the worst is coming in terms of their future importation. I was able to convince Mrs. Fatdog she bought it for my birthday this week.

[Mntneer357]

*IF* somebody wanted to buy an AK (or, in the current situation, was able to FIND an AK to buy) is the safest bet still to plunk down $1200 and get an Arsenal (again, assuming you can find one)? Have any of the other manufacturers such as KUSA or PSA made improvements to be worthy of consideration? Is it feasible to get a good -47 or -74 for under $1200?

For someone's first venture into the platform, would you recommend a -47 or -74 given our current climate? What about AK pistols with braces? I got to handle one from PSA owned by an acquaintance but didn't know if it was just a range toy or what...

I appreciate any time/guidance in advance, gents. Cheers.

[Caballoflaco]

*IF* somebody wanted to buy an AK (or, in the current situation, was able to FIND an AK to buy) is the safest bet still to plunk down $1200 and get an Arsenal (again, assuming you can find one)? Have any of the other manufacturers such as KUSA or PSA made improvements to be worthy of consideration? Is it feasible to get a good -47 or -74 for under $1200?

For someone's first venture into the platform, would you recommend a -47 or -74 given our current climate? What about AK pistols with braces? I got to handle one from PSA owned by an acquaintance but didn't know if it was just a range toy or what...

I appreciate any time/guidance in advance, gents. Cheers.

I’m not trying to be a dick here, but I think you’ll probably find the answers to that in the last ten or so pages of the thread if you haven’t read them.

But to answer a couple of questions that might not have come up.

7.62x39 for ammo and magazine availability, short and long term.

In 7.62 I would rather have a stock than brace due to recoil.

[Screwball]

In 7.62 I would rather have a stock than brace due to recoil.

Recoil on my PSA AK-P isn’t that bad (their triangle folder). But I am personally contemplating about tossing a Magpul stock on there (SBRing it). Not that there is much wrong with the brace... but folding the opposite way and better sling options make it an overall nicer choice. No issues shouldering is also an added benefit... but I made/bought pistols for a specific reason.

[Bigghoss]

*IF* somebody wanted to buy an AK (or, in the current situation, was able to FIND an AK to buy) is the safest bet still to plunk down $1200 and get an Arsenal (again, assuming you can find one)? Have any of the other manufacturers such as KUSA or PSA made improvements to be worthy of consideration? Is it feasible to get a good -47 or -74 for under $1200?

For someone's first venture into the platform, would you recommend a -47 or -74 given our current climate? What about AK pistols with braces? I got to handle one from PSA owned by an acquaintance but didn't know if it was just a range toy or what...

I appreciate any time/guidance in advance, gents. Cheers.


Right now I'd rather drop $1200 on an Arsenal than $900-1000 on a WASR, not that WASRs are bad.

Stick with 7.62x39 for now. 5.45 and mags are much less common.

I have a 7.62x39 M92 with an SBA3 on it. No problem there.

[Coyote41]

Right now I'd rather drop $1200 on an Arsenal than $900-1000 on a WASR, not that WASRs are bad.

Stick with 7.62x39 for now. 5.45 and mags are much less common.

I have a 7.62x39 M92 with an SBA3 on it. No problem there.

I respectfully disagree with most of this. Having seen the newer SLR-107r series, I’d take the WASR for the money and spend the difference in cost on optics, ammo, or mags. If you find a 107FR for $1200, buy it and throw a free bottle of lube for the poor guy.

Quality magazines for all AKs are scarce now with the exception of magpuls. If you want an AK, find one with a package deal with a few magazines.

My experience right now is that 5.45 is the only rifle ammo available at a half-way reasonable price. However, I would be hestitant to enter the 5.45 market now due to the high probability of import restrictions. 7.62x39 is in the exact same boat. Sure like 2 domestic companies make it, but it’s scarce and no one wants to pay the price for it. If you choose to go 5.45 stack it deep asap to ride out the gap until a domestic manufacture picks it up.

Otherwise, 5.45 is the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk de

[Up1911Fan]

Finally picked up my SLR-107R from my dealer today. My first and likely only AK unless things get better in 4/8 years. I've got 20 or so PMAGs to feed it. Ordered a Vickers sling and MagPul Zhukov stock ( not digging the factory stock). If all I wanted to add was an Aimpoint Micro, would a Ultimak or RS Regulate side mount be the best way to go about it?
65993

[Suvorov]

Finally picked up my SLR-107R from my dealer today. My first and likely only AK unless things get better in 4/8 years. I've got 20 or so PMAGs to feed it. Ordered a Vickers sling and MagPul Zhukov stock ( not digging the factory stock). If all I wanted to add was an Aimpoint Micro, would a Ultimak or RS Regulate side mount be the best way to go about it?
65993

I think it depends on what where you want the sight to sit. If it was me, I’d go with the RS as it would give you the option of mounting a LPVO if the desire arises. While the RS seems to be considered the best side mount I will just add that I have been happy with my Gen 2 Midwest. The Vickers sling has served me real well.

PS - nice rifle!

[Up1911Fan]

I think it depends on what where you want the sight to sit. If it was me, I’d go with the RS as it would give you the option of mounting a LPVO if the desire arises. While the RS seems to be considered the best side mount I will just add that I have been happy with my Gen 2 Midwest. The Vickers sling has served me real well.

PS - nice rifle!

Thanks, I'm brand new to the AK so trying to figure out what will work best for me. I like my Vickers AR slings, so figured that was a safe bet. While do like LPVO's, I'll most likely just stick with an RDS on this, although I bet a Vortex 1-6 would be slick.

[Hizzie]

Vickers sling is great but gotta have a good front attachment. I’m not a fan of the universal, uloop or uwl on the AK. Universal is good for a lefty. The Belt Fed Loop is pricy but doesn’t twist. I am biased to RS Regulate but prior to coming on board I tried to save a few bucks with MI and instantly regretted it.

My Zhukov stock experience was poor and sold off both of mine quickly. Easily folded with mild side pressure. Had cheek slap reminiscent of the yugo guns. Combloc surplus folder or CNC Warrior (horribly slow right now) would be my choice for a folder. JMac probably makes the most bomb proof AK to AR adapter available currently. The Vltor and TDI AKST are both quite serviceable.


p/CJtHFccrllJ

[Bigghoss]

If all I wanted to add was an Aimpoint Micro, would a Ultimak or RS Regulate side mount be the best way to go about it?

RS Regulate is considered the best option on the market. The Ultimaks are fine for guns without side rails but if you have a side rail use it.

[Coyote41]

RS Regulate is considered the best option on the market. The Ultimaks are fine for guns without side rails but if you have a side rail use it.

Ultimak is also the better option if your rifle folds as Mother Russia intended. If you intend to use a side rail mount, be sure your stock folds to the right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hizzie]

RS Regulate is considered the best option on the market. The Ultimaks are fine for guns without side rails but if you have a side rail use it.

The AK is an already front heavy rifle. While an Ultimak and micro RDS don’t add a ton of weight on paper they add it all at the front of the rifle. Only makes the balance worse. I actually find milled guns less fatiguing to shoot even with the added weight because they balance better.

[fatdog]

I followed your lead here and picked up one of those K-Var 107R's as I do not own any ex-commie made imports and I fear the worst is coming in terms of their future importation. I was able to convince Mrs. Fatdog she bought it for my birthday this week.

Of course just more rampant speculation similar to mine on the part of many others causing this, but the price of those has jumped $200 on the K-var site since the day my order went in on 1/4.

Even with that price increase, a friend from my gun club ordered one today after we had talked about it when I was out testing mine. Today he emailed and pointed out to me what a "great deal" I got.

I plead guilty to rumor mongering and stampeding the herd. It would be justice if nothing happens and the price falls back to $800 by summer and they continue to flow into the country, would serve me right for being a speculator.

[Up1911Fan]

Anyone using a MagPul handguard? Thoughts? I wouldn't mind being able to get my hand a little further forward. Would mount a light and forward sling point.

[rob_s]

Anyone using a MagPul handguard? Thoughts? I wouldn't mind being able to get my hand a little further forward. Would mount a light and forward sling point.

I bought the gun I did, Palmetto, largely because of the Magpul furniture. Sadly, I haven't shot the thing so can't comment on how good/bad they are. But I love the way it points in my living room!:p

[Bigghoss]

Anyone using a MagPul handguard? Thoughts? I wouldn't mind being able to get my hand a little further forward. Would mount a light and forward sling point.

Which one? I have used both and I like them but if I could go back and do it over again I wouldn't put the Zhukov on my first WASR just because you have to cut off the handguard retainer. They're great for Saigas but does that even matter at this point? I have a few MOE handguards and I like them.

[Up1911Fan]

Which one? I have used both and I like them but if I could go back and do it over again I wouldn't put the Zhukov on my first WASR just because you have to cut off the handguard retainer. They're great for Saigas but does that even matter at this point? I have a few MOE handguards and I like them.
I was looking at the longer one.

[Hizzie]

Zhukov HG is heavy and requires chopping the HG retainer. I do not like them. The shorter MOE HG is great. My choice for extended HG is the RS Regulate GKR-10MS but I’m biased.

[LHS]

66566

My current 'modernized' AK. Started life as a Draco, and I had LRK Mechanical up in Prescott install a Russian triangle sidefolder, ALG trigger, and a Sabrewerks 13 KOP system. I added a Magpul forend, VFG and PG, one of the RD triangle stock pouches (carries a cleaning kit and a copy of my form 1), Primary Arms micro clone, Vickers sling, and a Battlecomp AKBC to round it out. I generally keep it with a Hungarian 20rd mag for compactness' sake.

The AKBC makes a huge difference in controlability, though it makes an already blasty gun a bit more blasty (loads of fun on the low ports out here in the dusty desert). All in all, it's about as heavy as my 11.5" AR with LPVO, with less capability... but it's fun as all hell, which was the entire point of the exercise.

[Caballoflaco]

For all the AK guys out there, and especially any of our AR folks who bought an AK just to have it around. Now is the time of year to put on your biggest, thickest, warmest set of winter gloves and run some drills either live or dry and discover why a lot of the AK ergonomics are the way they are.

Everything from the skinny pistol grip to the goofy safety lever start to make a lot more sense when you add in big gloves and cold hands. It’s almost like they had just fought a long ass war in extreme cold weather for extended periods of time and had an idea about what worked in that environment.

[Bigghoss]

I was looking at the longer one.

The longer one is the Zhukov which is available in two different lengths. Both require removal of the front handguard retainer. Cutting it off with a Dremel isn't hard but there's no going back after that.

I also tried a Troy extended AK handguard which uses the front retainer but it's a pain to install and just strikes me as something that might work lose. Next time I'm in the market for an extended AK handguard I'll probably get the RS Regulate. If Hizzie likes it then it's gotta be good. I've seen plenty of other folks that are happy with them also.

[Hizzie]

The longer one is the Zhukov which is available in two different lengths. Both require removal of the front handguard retainer. Cutting it off with a Dremel isn't hard but there's no going back after that.

I also tried a Troy extended AK handguard which uses the front retainer but it's a pain to install and just strikes me as something that might work lose. Next time I'm in the market for an extended AK handguard I'll probably get the RS Regulate. If Hizzie likes it then it's gotta be good. I've seen plenty of other folks that are happy with them also.

I’ve shot guns with the magpul Zhukov. Hated the even worse forward bias in balance.

I’ve shot the TDI aluminum mlok. The hottest, most finger burning-est, HG I’ve tried.

I’ve owned and used MI, Troy, SLR and RS Regulate. The RS are extremely lightweight and handle heat the best of any rail I’ve ever seen. They accept OEM heat shield (probably has something to do with how well it handles heat) and allows you to keep your cleaning rod.

[rob_s]

Zhukov HG is heavy and requires chopping the HG retainer. I do not like them. The shorter MOE HG is great. My choice for extended HG is the RS Regulate GKR-10MS but I’m biased.


I’ve shot guns with the magpul Zhukov. Hated the even worse forward bias in balance.

I’ve shot the TDI aluminum mlok. The hottest, most finger burning-est, HG I’ve tried.

I’ve owned and used MI, Troy, SLR and RS Regulate. The RS are extremely lightweight and handle heat the best of any rail I’ve ever seen. They accept OEM heat shield (probably has something to do with how well it handles heat) and allows you to keep your cleaning rod.

Just clocking on “hand guards” on the RS site reminds me why I hate AK stuff. Want an AR hand guard? Pretty good bet what really you want will fit. Want an AK hand guard? Which trunnion do you have, from which country, with what front sight, and has some other part been cut off yet or not and.... fuck me running. Not to mention having to develop for all those interfaces almost certainly drives up development and tooling costs, which get passed right along to the customer, who ironically was (at least until the recent last) buying an AK vs an AR to save money to begin with!

All of that to say, is there one of these that can be retrofit to the Palmetto I bought with the long Zhukov installed?
https://rsregulate.com/product-category/handguards/

While I’m not looking to change anything at the moment, and certainly not to the tune of $200+, and without having even shot the thing, and no prospective time TO shoot it, I’d still like to know. :p

[Hizzie]

So the fitment issues with PSA come from their wonky HG retainer. It’s been accomplished with a bolt-on HG retainer but I’m unsure of the exact details. I’m trying to find out for ya.

[HCM]

https://youtu.be/Ryd9MypGPm4

[Jay585]

Thinking about making a custom build.

Want a parts kit from 1985 (my birth year) and wanting to find this stock set:

https://www.legionusa.com/ak-100-folding-laminate-wood-stock-set.html

And a good builder to put it all together and put a nice blue and a linseed/tung oil finish on it.

What's a good forum with a decent marketplace to read up on parts kits and buy? Gunbroker has some nice 1985 Polish kits but asking $3000 :eek:

[Suvorov]

Thinking about making a custom build.

Want a parts kit from 1985 (my birth year) and wanting to find this stock set:

https://www.legionusa.com/ak-100-folding-laminate-wood-stock-set.html

And a good builder to put it all together and put a nice blue and a linseed/tung oil finish on it.

What's a good forum with a decent marketplace to read up on parts kits and buy? Gunbroker has some nice 1985 Polish kits but asking $3000 :eek:

I too would be interested in a good builder as I have a SA93 that I would like completely de-banned.

As far as the stock finish though, just a little elbow grease can yield spectacular results.

[Up1911Fan]

Just got my RS handguard installed, glad I went with this over the Zhukov. Thanks Hizzie .
68474

[rob_s]

So I'm intrigued by these, but I think I'm about to order the standard
PSAK-47 GF3 FORGED ZHUKOV RIFLE, GRAY (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-gray.html)

because

it's available and the "enhanced" isn't
it's $240 less expensive
I'm not sure how much I'll really shoot the thing (this is largely a "want" and a "pre-election panic" purchase)



My question is, am I missing anything or buying into any potential issues with the "Zhukov"? Does the furniture actually suck, is the folding stock a pain to use, does the longer handguard add weight for no reason... anything else I might be missing?

Also, what else should I get while I'm getting. Pretty sure I have ammo and mags from the last AK I owned. Any particular "new" mags that I should get while I'm getting? is there a partilcar P-mag that's good/bad? One that's "serious" and one that's "training"?

49894


I went ahead and ordered the above today.

I do think that I might maybe one day want to have the ability to add a suppressor but not bad enough for a $240 premium plus waiting an indeterminate amount of time.

Turns out I maybe don't have any mags, but do have some limited ammo, so I guess I gotta get a good baker's dozen of mags now, at least.

it's been over a year, about 14 months, actually, since ordering the above. Haven't shot it, or even had an opportunity or a free day to make an opportunity to shoot it, since. It's sat, unfired, in the safe this entire time. I don't even think I ever really put the box away in my workshop...

Is there any sort of panicking or other peak in the market I could take advantage of to sell it off? I don't really "need" the money, but nor do I frankly "need" another boat anchor sitting in the safe.

Looks like I paid about $700/shipped for it. Any chance of getting my money back or even a little more? Looks like this guy (https://www.gunbroker.com/item/900658785) is *asking* $1,100 starting bid for something pretty similar. That'd go a long way toward paying for the Beretta 1301 that'd give me better feels while it sits unfired than the AK is doing...

[StraitR]

@rob_s (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=2173) I would expect $1000+ auction result in the current market for a few reasons. 1) Demand is still outpacing supply, 2) market prices remain bloated (cause and effect with #1), and 3) although historically high, the price for 7.62x39 is by far the cheapest centerfire rifle ammo you can find.

[awp_101]

Anyone have feedback on the “Radom” Hellpup pistols in 7.62x39? My understanding is they’re made IN Radom, not BY Radom. GTG or hard pass?

[Hizzie]

Anyone have feedback on the “Radom” Hellpup pistols in 7.62x39? My understanding is they’re made IN Radom, not BY Radom. GTG or hard pass?

I was advised by a few guys that know more than me that they were subpar.

Finally swapped out the heavy SLR handguard for a GKR7MS. Decided I prefer tailcap switch to pressure pad as well. This setup just feels more natural.

p/CPA-BUwrV8p

[HCM]

Anyone have feedback on the “Radom” Hellpup pistols in 7.62x39? My understanding is they’re made IN Radom, not BY Radom. GTG or hard pass?

AKOU had issues with one of their rifles.


https://youtu.be/_oQrW0Y8Lx0

[awp_101]

Thanks, sounds like a pass to me.

[Caballoflaco]

More good content from the guys at 9 Hole reviews. tl/dw goos Ak’s were 2+ inch guns, mediocre ones were 2.5+ and the worst were over 3” with the aks74u (krink) printing a 6+ inch group. As the channel name implies this is shooting 9 shot groups, not cherry picked 3-5 round groups. Worth watching are the visuals of what different group sizes actually look like on a target at 100-500 yards (@13:50)


https://youtu.be/Wod9PvfaSEE


Group size in relation to an USPSA silhouette @100 yards

71721

[Hizzie]

p/CQqpwRFr0X2

[Up1911Fan]

Was finally able to add the RS Regulate upper and lower mounts to my Arsenal. Pretty solid, just wish I could get a cowitness on my irons.

73725
73726

[Sanch]

What do you guys think about putting a micro aimpoint on an AK in a way that is QD? One reason I got an AK is to practice with them with iron sights since they’re the most common weapon in the world, and if my LARPing fantasies will ever come true, it will likely involve some AK battlefield pickup.

I find it silly to have an AK for any other reason given how good ARs are these days. Don’t mean to pee on anyone’s parade and not looking to fight. But I figure, if I have an AK anyway, for fun, for a store of value, for collectibility, for LARPing training anyway, I might as well have a way to put an aimpoint on the old girl so if it needs to become a backup functional carbine, I have a zeroed red dot on her ready to go. But once or twice a year when I want to larp battlefield pickups, would be nice to QD the dot.

I’d prefer not to try a permanent co-witness solution since the look will be different from just raw iron sights.

I do like the higher unity 2.26” mounts on my AR, let’s me keep my head nice and upright while shooting. Maybe a QD 1.93” would work nice with an an ultimak, making it about the same height as a 2.26 on an AR since I read ultimak makes even the lowest possible aimpoint micro mount into a lower 1/3 cowitness.

Was thinking rs regulate mount as a second option, since I don’t use a side folder, but my gun doesn’t have the pins in the receiver to support that and I’m lazy to bring it to a smith. But I am open to it, and once I remove the rs regulate mount, it’s more closely a pristine 3rd world country battlefield pickup weapon.

Given my use case, what aimpoint mounting solution would y’all recommend?

[Casual Friday]

What do you guys think about putting a micro aimpoint on an AK in a way that is QD? One reason I got an AK is to practice with them with iron sights since they’re the most common weapon in the world, and if my LARPing fantasies will ever come true, it will likely involve some AK battlefield pickup.

I find it silly to have an AK for any other reason given how good ARs are these days. Don’t mean to pee on anyone’s parade and not looking to fight. But I figure, if I have an AK anyway, for fun, for a store of value, for collectibility, for LARPing training anyway, I might as well have a way to put an aimpoint on the old girl so if it needs to become a backup functional carbine, I have a zeroed red dot on her ready to go. But once or twice a year when I want to larp battlefield pickups, would be nice to QD the dot.

I’d prefer not to try a permanent co-witness solution since the look will be different from just raw iron sights.

I do like the higher unity 2.26” mounts on my AR, let’s me keep my head nice and upright while shooting. Maybe a QD 1.93” would work nice with an an ultimak, making it about the same height as a 2.26 on an AR since I read ultimak makes even the lowest possible aimpoint micro mount into a lower 1/3 cowitness.

Was thinking rs regulate mount as a second option, since I don’t use a side folder, but my gun doesn’t have the pins in the receiver to support that and I’m lazy to bring it to a smith. But I am open to it, and once I remove the rs regulate mount, it’s more closely a pristine 3rd world country battlefield pickup weapon.

Given my use case, what aimpoint mounting solution would y’all recommend?

You should definitely put a micro red dot on a 1.93 mount on an Ultimak and then report back on your frustrations with zeroing. We need a good laugh.

[WobblyPossum]

Sanch, do your LARP fantasies involve you being in another country? The AK might be the most common fighting rifle in the world as a whole, but it sure isn’t in the USA. Here, a battlefield pickup will most likely be an AR pattern rifle of some kind. Set your AK up however you want. It doesn’t matter if you’re primarily using it as a fun gun.

[Hizzie]

This is the cowitness you can expect with an RS Regulate mount and Aimpoint Micro. RS Regulate mounts hold zero well enough to run Paul Howe’s “scrambler” course clean.

p/BUvG5C0jkJV

[Screwball]

The PSA AK-P with its railed top cover gives me cowitness… I’d have to look again, but probably around lower 1/3. Due to that, I didn’t invest in a QD mount like my AR pistol (I just added an identical red dot on my M&P 15-22 pistol… again, standard mount). Have a KNS piston on the way, being it is so overgassed that casings are chewing up the top cover/ejection port (PSA said it was normal, and a wear part… but replaced it). I’m also looking at setting it up for my Bushwhacker 46 when it comes out of jail, so probably a good upgrade to do.

I’ve also started to un-NJ my WASR 10/63. That was my first AK, so definitely sentimental. I cut the weld the other day on the barrel nut, and put on a slant brake. Looking to have a bayonet lug put back on (want the ability to toss on the wall with a bayonet… just like my M1A), and then refinish the gun (the front of the clean rod retainer is unfinished, due to cutting the weld). Leaning towards zinc Parkerizing, but I’m sort of considering nickel on the bolt and carrier (guess it would be more of the in the white look… but figured it would be different). I’m sort of leaning towards Meridian Ordinance… unless someone has another AK gunsmith recommendation.

I have a 4x POSP with CR123 modification on a side mount… but was thinking about a red dot for the WASR. Was looking at the RS Regulate AK-301M (front biased lower) and either a RMR or Aimpoint Micro upper. I am sort of looking at a similar red dot setup on my M1A, which there is a mount on M14 Forum that only uses the screw… without messing with the stripper clip guide.

[Hizzie]

They have several options that still allow bayonet.

https://damageindustriesllc.com/store/index.php?route=product/category&path=78

[Hizzie]

p/CQ9JVzWLmi6

[Hizzie]

I use BM1’s for a reason. This is how tight to the rifle I can get my lights. SF Scout w/RM45 and 6P w/Vltor Offset. Both lights have been upgraded with Malkoff Devices heads.

p/CQ_LrKYrJ4k

[entropy]

I like that....

[Flashman]

New to AK's, I noted that about 12 years ago Tech Sights introduced an innovative AK receiver sight that appears to connect at the top rear part of the receiver with a replacement proprietary dust cover that is configured around to the sight. T-S claims there is no zero change when the dust cover is removed. It aligns with the front sight and requires removal of the pinned rear sight. It seemed too good to be true. Maybe it was since no one seems to use this sight.

I note Hizzie has mentioned it once or twice in this threat but I don't recall seeing anything other than a mention.

Has anyone used it. How does it work? Does it hold up?

[Caballoflaco]

New to AK's, I noted that about 12 years ago Tech Sights introduced an innovative AK receiver sight that appears to connect at the top rear part of the receiver with a replacement proprietary dust cover that is configured around to the sight. T-S claims there is no zero change when the dust cover is removed. It aligns with the front sight and requires removal of the pinned rear sight. It seemed too good to be true. Maybe it was since no one seems to use this sight.

I note Hizzie has mentioned it once or twice in this threat but I don't recall seeing anything other than a mention.

Has anyone used it. How does it work? Does it hold up?

My personal opinion and ymmv, but I found when shooting rifle matches that the standard AK sight with the rear notch opened up a bit is superior to an aperture sight out to 25-30 yards, it looses very little at 50 and is still workable out to 200. In 2021 I would put money towards an rds and a good mount and get a lot more of a performance upgrade than a tech sight will get you.

Eta: the other advantage to this is that if you do get a red dot a lower 1/3 cowitness with standard AK sights provides a much cleaner/unobstructed view through the dot than a lower 1/3 cowitness on an AR or other aperature sighted rifle.

[Hizzie]

Tech Sights exist and they are an option for someone that absolutely has to have such a thing. I find regular AK sights to be rapid up close and just fine for out to 100m with my less than perfect eyes.

Krebs sells a “fast acquisition” rear sight that is a slightly opened up U notch as well as their peep rear. Several other companies sell ghost ring like or peep rear sights for the AK. Post 699 on previous page shows Fast Acquisition Rear with slightly thicker front post in lower 1/3 of optic window. No optic pic of that combo below:

What’s the goal? For the amount of money and time invested an optic is probably a better option. If you have a side rail then RS Regulate side mount and corresponding optic of choice. If no rail then Ultimak and Micro.


p/_J8XjBo2CY

[Hizzie]

p/CRBWadBrIr5

p/CRGfPR8LnEe

p/CRGgD5bru0w

[Flashman]

Thanks, I appreciate your perspective and experience. I really like the RDS co-witness configuration.

[Coyote41]

I have a tech sight. I tried it briefly. The added step for removing the dust cover killed it for me. Otherwise, it is well-made and works as advertised.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hizzie]

p/CR4q5-_gJyB

[Tokarev]

Here's a fun video. Subtitled and narrated by Lego Batman but well worth the 30+ minutes to watch.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeFVyxJKlLw

[Hizzie]

Definitive Arms updated their 24mm Fighter Brake aka Angry Trashcan. Slightly longer and thicker. Weight increased from 53g to 84g. Now SBR and FA rated.

p/CW3icCaLcQ8

[Tokarev]

Side folder model now available to order. This is, as far as I know, the most authentic (and modern) AK on the market.

https://kalashnikov-usa.com/product/kr-103sfs-7-62x39mm-rifle-side-folding/

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[JRB]

Side folder model now available to order. This is, as far as I know, the most authentic (and modern) AK on the market.

https://kalashnikov-usa.com/product/kr-103sfs-7-62x39mm-rifle-side-folding/

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Looks pretty solid. Any idea of the source of the CHF barrels?

I'd be very interested in a good comparison between these and the PSA 100 series offerings.

[Tokarev]

Looks pretty solid. Any idea of the source of the CHF barrels?

I'd be very interested in a good comparison between these and the PSA 100 series offerings.Nope. No idea who's providing barrels. This is a recent change. The older non-folding guns are cut rifling. Still using bolts machined from billet much to the chagrin of the AK collector community.

There are a couple videos on YouTube comparing the PSA to the KUSA but these generally focus on manufacturing differences instead of differences in practical accuracy and such.

What it boils down to is that the PSA guns are AKM based and use older pattern bolts, trunnions, carriers. The Kalashnikov USA stuff appears to be made using the AK100 pattern.

Here's a pretty decent video that goes over the differences in the 103s:


https://youtu.be/iuqNPYTYb38

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[Hizzie]

WASR in the grass with most of the upgrades visible. Second pic is a closer look at the PKM Grip from Hub City Outdoors. Traditionally styled but much thicker and more hand filling.

p/CXlyGMnLlp-

p/CXmCQ8VLHW8

[Tokarev]

For those with access, I recommend you watch this movie:

https://www.amazon.com/AK-47-Kalashnikov-Yuriy-Borisov/dp/B08S3S2D16/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=3KTISCPDN0G2U&keywords=ak47+movie&qid=1639851382&sprefix=ak47+movie%2Caps%2C127&sr=8-1

Paraphrased, no doubt, to fit into 90 minutes but a good geek movie. Pretty cool seeing some of the prototype guns even if they are probably plastic.

Likely more factually accurate than the US movie about Carbine Williams starring Jimmy Stewart.

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[helothar]

Kalashnikov USA has teased 5.56 and 5.45 aks via their Instagram account, coming "soon". Hopefully I will be able to fulfill my irrational desire for a 105 after all.

[Tokarev]

Kalashnikov USA has teased 5.56 and 5.45 aks via their Instagram account, coming "soon". Hopefully I will be able to fulfill my irrational desire for a 105 after all.PSA is also working a similar path. They have a "rock and lock" mag format in the works that will *hopefully* be based on Russian or Polish mag format. They are also supposed to be close to releasing a rifle with a mag well extension that accepts M16 mags.



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[Notorious E.O.C.]

Kalashnikov USA has teased 5.56 and 5.45 aks via their Instagram account, coming "soon". Hopefully I will be able to fulfill my irrational desire for a 105 after all.

How's the 5.45 supply situation these days? Doesn't seem like Ukraine is real interested in exporting any surplus ammo...

[4RNR]

How's the 5.45 supply situation these days? Doesn't seem like Ukraine is real interested in exporting any surplus ammo...There's still plenty around. Commercial stuff sill being imported

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[Tokarev]

Kalashnikov USA is showing their 5.56 and 5.45 rifles at SHOT 2022.

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[Tokarev]

Gun Jesus talks briefly about some of the newstuff coming from KUSA:


https://youtu.be/i9KwyrkG684

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[Tokarev]

More SHOT stuff:


https://youtu.be/ZcdTWqPEt9U


https://youtu.be/4bZZjbpFR3w

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[Sanch]

I like AKs. I have an AK in 762x39 that I don’t shoot often but Im glad I have it and I like it.

I keep wondering if I should get a second AK or do something different with furniture/optic on the one I have. And now in 2022, I wonder about the age old AR vs AK debate. And it seems like things have flip flopped.

Used to be AKs were 1/4 or less the price of an AR. Now ARs are 1/2 the price of AKs.

Used to be AKs were more reliable than ARs. Now it seems like ARs may be more reliable than some of the junkier US-made AKs. But maybe not a fair comparison and I still think from an engineering perspective, AKs should be more reliable than ARs if built right. But ARs are pretty dang reliable these days so I don’t know if I need more than that.

Still seems like getting a red dot on an AK is a mission. Mine rocks iron sights. I hardly shoot it so I havnt cared enough to get a red dot on it, and I kind of like it with just irons.

I mention all that to ask, in 2022, what’s the reason for buying an AK relative to another gun like an AR? If the reason is because they’re cool and you want it, then my friend, cheers to you because I also think they’re cool and I want them. I’m wondering if there’s any practical /functional reason for one today.

Partly asking out of curiosity and partly because maybe the answer will nudge me to buying a second AK.

Mission drives the gear and if I know what AKs actually do better, if anything, then it might help me change up my existing AK to pursue that optimal function for it that makes it a gun I grab for some specialized reason.

[rob_s]

I don’t think there’s any “reason”.

If you’re looking for one, I think that the further away you get from the AR that you own the Morse “sense” it makes.

For example, I like the fact that the one I bought has a folding stock, making it a non-SBR that folds down more compact than my non-SBR ARs. I actually kind of which I’d doubled down on that and just gotten the pistol with folding brace. Yes, in 2022 you can cobble together ARs that do the same thing.

I also wouldn’t bother with calibers other than 7.62x39 personally. Getting a bigger slower fatter bullet was part of my “reason”. And again, possible in the AR in 2022.

I suppose I could have just bought a pistol AR in 300wtf, with a folding brace, but IMO that’s pushing the design parameters of the AR past what it was designed for.

[flux]

I’m at this crossroad now. Whether I should get a 11.5” AK or just get a 300 BLK upper for the AR. I won’t really be shooting subsonic. Plenty 7.62x39 ammo where I am from, I’ll have to reload for the 300.

[Hizzie]

Sanch

Mounting an optic on an AK is pretty easy. If they have a side rail RS Regulate for the win. No rail? Ultimak is the way to go.

p/CZM3NBGrXNc

[Suvorov]

I like AKs.

Me too! Isn’t that enough reason for most of us on the forum?

“Mission Drives the Gear” - You are 100% correct! What is your “Mission?”

If you have a “real world” mission for a rifle West of the Danube River then your gear is most likely an AR and that decision has been made at levels way above your head. Maybe you are a contractor who is given an AK in country so you want to train with your own while stateside? I understand that’s a thing. Other than that - I don’t think “mission” is really all that important for the common man exercising his 2A rights.

As for me - ever since retiring from my security job at a major shopping mall, my mission has been to enjoy shooting firearms and become as good with them as I can reasonably be given the constraints of my life. I’ve been shooting the AK as my primary rifle the past few years because if was raised on the AR, wanting to mix things up a bit, and I wanted to better understand Gospodin Kalashnikov’s invention. At the time of my decision, cheap 762x39 was icing on the cake. It’s been fun, I’ve learned a little, I can run the gun OK (but still not as well as an AR), and have gained an appreciation for it. I’ll keep shooting it until I grow tired of it, or the economics of feeding it no longer make sense. If the goblins come jogging and I need a rifle - I doubt its going to make much a difference between me being armed with an AR or AK.

As mentioned, mounting a red dot is a fairly easy task. RS Regulate are the best but I could never found them available when I had the money so I’m just a “poor” living down by the river with my Midwest side rail that seems to work for me.

In the end, I’d just “smoke what you got” and enjoy it until you don’t. No need to buy another rifle when you already got one.

Unless you want to……. ;)

[Bigghoss]

I’m at this crossroad now. Whether I should get a 11.5” AK or just get a 300 BLK upper for the AR. I won’t really be shooting subsonic. Plenty 7.62x39 ammo where I am from, I’ll have to reload for the 300.

Get both.

[Tokarev]

I’m at this crossroad now. Whether I should get a 11.5” AK or just get a 300 BLK upper for the AR. I won’t really be shooting subsonic. Plenty 7.62x39 ammo where I am from, I’ll have to reload for the 300.Palmetto State and Kalashnikov USA are both teasing AKs in 300BLK.


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[Inkwell 41]

PSA is also introducing an AK101.

[4RNR]

An example of one but what I saw with PSA AK they can keep it.

The gun in question required fitted mags. A call to PSA confirmed. They stated the mags that came with the rifle were fitted to the rifle and while some random mags may fit (which is exactly what happened) overall they are supposed fitted.

That rifle quickly found it's way to GunBroker

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[Hizzie]

I’m hearing reports of new PSA guns self destructing under 500rds.

[rob_s]

I’m hearing reports of new PSA guns self destructing under 500rds.

Good thing most guns sold in America won’t get anywhere near that round count. :D

Including, on topic for the thread, my own AK which remains unforced after nearly two years of ownership. :(

[Tokarev]

If anyone happened to see GT's earlier PSA 74 video here is his follow-up.


https://youtu.be/hRqtqzxtzkg



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[oregon45]

What's the consensus choice for 7.62x39 magazines? I'm looking to pick up a half-dozen, preferably in the $15-20 range and available from regular sources. I recently learned my father-in-law has a Norinco AKM/47S 7.62x39 under-folder that he bought new in the early 90s and put in the back of his safe. He only has two magazines for it (the original metal magazines) and I figure now's the time to acquire a few spares.

[helothar]

What's the consensus choice for 7.62x39 magazines? I'm looking to pick up a half-dozen, preferably in the $15-20 range and available from regular sources. I recently learned my father-in-law has a Norinco AKM/47S 7.62x39 under-folder that he bought new in the early 90s and put in the back of his safe. He only has two magazines for it (the original metal magazines) and I figure now's the time to acquire a few spares.

i think sticking with surplus stuff is the best bet unless you want to shell out the $50 arsenal is asking for waffle magazines these days.
https://www.apexgunparts.com/ak47-30rd-steel-magazine-7-62x39-romanian-blued-excellent.html - $22 for very good condition, they also have "good" condition for $20.

They will likely a little different from the norinco mags as iirc norinco magazines have smooth backs whereas euro magazines have the spine, but those chinese mags are hard to find.

[fatdog]

I have run the snot out of these mags in both PSA and Arsenal platforms, literally several thousand rounds, zero problems of any sort. I very much appreciate the lower weight over the steel mags.

https://gunmagwarehouse.com/bulgarian-ak-47-7-62x39mm-30-round-reinforced-steel-lug-polymer-magazine.html

[4RNR]

Don't overthink this. Surplus mags from wherever. Pick a country that sounds cool to you and actually fielded the rifle.

Poland
Hungry
Russian (Soviet)
Romanian
Yugoslav
Chinese
E. German


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[rob_s]

Don't overthink this. Surplus mags from wherever. Pick a country that sounds cool to you and actually fielded the rifle.

Poland
Hungry
Russian (Soviet)
Romanian
Yugoslav
Chinese
E. German


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Providing current sources/links to those would be helpful.

[4RNR]

Providing current sources/links to those would be helpful.I'm saying whatever European mags. Doesn't have to be specifically Polish or Romanian, I'm just listing off some countries. Pick one, pick any!

Google search "surplus AK mags". Literally the first several links

Romanian
https://www.apexgunparts.com/ak47-30rd-steel-magazine-7-62x39-romanian-blued-excellent.html

https://www.apexgunparts.com/ak47-30rd-steel-magazine-7-62x39-romanian-good-to-vg.html

https://www.royaltigerimports.com/product-p/rakmag01.htm

Mix
https://www.apexgunparts.com/mixed-euro-magazines-ak-30rd-gd.html

https://www.apexgunparts.com/euro-mixed-ak47-magazine-30rd-steel-gd.html

Yugo
https://armsofamerica.com/new-zastava-steel-bolt-hold-open-mag/

Polish
https://armsofamerica.com/polish-surplus-30rd-steel-mag-works-11-grade-3/

Bulgarian
https://atlanticfirearms.com/ak47-magazine-steel-bulgarian

https://atlanticfirearms.com/ak47-magazine-steel-bulgarian-5-pack




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[Hizzie]

I’ve run the snot out of the Magpul mags.

[oregon45]

I’ve run the snot out of the Magpul mags.

That's good to hear, Magpul is my default choice for after-market magazines. I'll likely pick up a few of those.

[JRB]

So far so good with the 30rnd AC-Unity mags I've bought from RTGparts. They fit well and without fuss in my variety of AK's, in 7.62 and 5.45. I haven't tried the 40's or 45's though.

They're also closing out 30rnd and 40rd mags made by AC-Unity for the German civilian market for stupid cheap. $99 for 20 magazines:
https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/20-PACK-GERMAN-MARKET-AC-AK47-30RD-MAGS-UNDER-5-EACH-4p8950.htm

They also have a nice variety of different flavors and options:

https://www.robertrtg.com/store/pc/AK47-7-62x39-Magazines-c164.htm

I've also had good luck with the Magpuls and the two old US-Palm mags I ended up via some horse trading. My favorite milsurp mags are the East German mags though.

[Tokarev]

5.56 AKs look like they will soon be a thing. PSA and KUSA are planning models. Zastava and WBP are selling them now.

PSA and Kalashnikov USA are both reportedly working on a source for mags. I guess I'm actually kind of surprised Magpul didn't announce a 5.56 AK mag at SHOT 2022.

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[JRB]

5.56 AKs look like they will soon be a thing. PSA and KUSA are planning models. Zastava and WBP are selling them now.

PSA and Kalashnikov USA are both reportedly working on a source for mags. I guess I'm actually kind of surprised Magpul didn't announce a 5.56 AK mag at SHOT 2022.

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Arsenal SAM-5's have been on the market again for the past few months. Pricing is a bit steep though in the $1800-2k range.

[Tokarev]

Arsenal SAM-5's have been on the market again for the past few months. Pricing is a bit steep though in the $1800-2k range.There are a few others popping up as well. Beryl comes to mind. Not SAM5 money but still pretty pricey. Hopefully the PSA and KUSA guns will be priced like their 7.62 products.

On a somewhat related note I did talk to XTech recently about AK mags and the possibility of 5.56 mags. They aren't opposed to it but it really isn't on their radar. Production setup would be $300,000 so they would have to sell a bunch of mags just to pay for the equipment.

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[JRB]

There are a few others popping up as well. Beryl comes to mind. Not SAM5 money but still pretty pricey. Hopefully the PSA and KUSA guns will be priced like their 7.62 products.

On a somewhat related note I did talk to XTech recently about AK mags and the possibility of 5.56 mags. They aren't opposed to it but it really isn't on their radar. Production setup would be $300,000 so they would have to sell a bunch of mags just to pay for the equipment.

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Any experience with the AC-Unity magazines? My own experience with their 7.62 and 5.45 mags would guide me toward them for their 5.56 mags especially at the price. Bulgarian 5.56 mags are insanely expensive.