Current state of the AK

[Bigghoss]

That is cool. Both my AK rifles have side rails but it's nice to know that option is out there.

[nalesq]

New option for running optics for guys without side mounts. AK Master Mount makes a steel bolt on side plate that replaces the FCG pins. Eliminates the need for a FCG retaining plate as well.

p/BZD5cTgDQXv

Has anyone actually tried this yet? Does it work well?


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[Hizzie]

Has anyone actually tried this yet? Does it work well?


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What do you mean by work? It is stable and holds zero. The rifle pictured was my buddy’s hog gun. He has had no issues.

[nalesq]

The picture doesn’t show up for me, so I didn’t know someone here had actually installed it.

I had seen a favorable review by AK Operators Union some time ago, but had wondered if others had used it as well. By “work,” of course I meant does it hold zero, but also whether installation is relatively unproblematic given the annoying variations among AKs and their components.

Thanks for the feedback!


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[HCM]

The picture doesn’t show up for me, so I didn’t know someone here had actually installed it.

I had seen a favorable review by AK Operators Union some time ago, but had wondered if others had used it as well. By “work,” of course I meant does it hold zero, but also whether installation is relatively unproblematic given the annoying variations among AKs and their components.

Thanks for the feedback!


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I’m interested as well since none of my current AK’s have side rail mounts.

[Hizzie]

The picture doesn’t show up for me, so I didn’t know someone here had actually installed it.

I had seen a favorable review by AK Operators Union some time ago, but had wondered if others had used it as well. By “work,” of course I meant does it hold zero, but also whether installation is relatively unproblematic given the annoying variations among AKs and their components.

Thanks for the feedback!


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Install wasn’t terrible. FCG holes were a touch off so getting the new pins to fully seat was tricky. I finally wiggled just right and got them in without any dremel-fu.

[Hizzie]

A little creativity and IWC Micro QD provides a much more user friendly rear sling mount.

p/BeEIJiYjlm7

p/BeEIen-DyfM

[Hizzie]

Full disclosure: I am affiliated with RS Regulate.

Scot is definitely late to the modernized handguard party but it looks like it was worth the wait. This new HG accepts an OEM heat shield and cleaning rod (something nobody else has managed). Scot’s personal SAM7SF fully decked out with Trijicon TA44 and second generation Definitive Arms Fighter Brake. I’m looking for getting one of the new rails to test and compare to my current SLR Rifleworks setup. I have one of the new Fighter Brakes coming as well to test. Chase has made some design tweaks for better performance.

p/BomN69RHgnV

p/BorVo1XHq0Q

[Jay Cunningham]

Quite interesting.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Full disclosure: I am affiliated with RS Regulate.

Scot is definitely late to the modernized handguard party but it looks like it was worth the wait. This new HG accepts an OEM heat shield and cleaning rod (something nobody else has managed). Scot’s personal SAM7SF fully decked out with Trijicon TA44 and second generation Definitive Arms Fighter Brake. I’m looking for getting one of the new rails to test and compare to my current SLR Rifleworks setup. I have one of the new Fighter Brakes coming as well to test. Chase has made some design tweaks for better performance.

p/BomN69RHgnV

p/BorVo1XHq0Q

I don’t see the pics but these work for regular AKM’s, not jut Galils? I don’t see anything but Galil on the site.


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[Hizzie]

These are an entirely new model designed for Kalashnikovs. They do, obviously, take design cues from the ACE handguards. They aren’t available yet but will be soon-ish.

[That Guy]

Looks like TWS is releasing a new small red dot mount. In theory, I really like these little mounts for micro red dots, since they don't add a lot of stuff to the rifle, but it seems some of the iterations have had some issues. I wonder how solid this will be?

http://www.texasweaponsystems.com/product-p/36101.htm

[Hizzie]

Looks like TWS is releasing a new small red dot mount. In theory, I really like these little mounts for micro red dots, since they don't add a lot of stuff to the rifle, but it seems some of the iterations have had some issues. I wonder how solid this will be?

http://www.texasweaponsystems.com/product-p/36101.htm

Looks similar to the Midwest Industries AK mini dot mount and Atterro Arms Bravo mount.

[Hizzie]

I have a buddy that’s a dealer for Attero Arms. His shop guns that wear the mount have help up well without loss of zero. He says he has only received positive feedback from customers.

They do make several versions for various optics. https://www.atteroarms.com


Video from Attero:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b_9V7585cIg

[Hizzie]

p/Bo9Hh_mnFb6

[Guerrero]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/camg.gif

[Hizzie]

p/BpmaZSWHKmK

[Jay Cunningham]

I can see me getting one of these for my 12.5” 5.56mm AK.

[helothar]

Currently have a kit being built that would be a good home for this, it looks awesome

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[Hizzie]

RS Regulate GKR-10M

Keep your heat shield. Keep your cleaning rod.

p/BrDFam2HxC3

[Hizzie]

Since this version of the rail has the sling loop cutout the designation is GKR-10MS.

Installation was pretty straightforward and not that difficult save for the layers of rattle can paint built up on my handguard retainer. The front locking piece is not toleranced for the extra material. The fit is very precise. There is no wobble in the handguard once fully installed.

p/BrFmiAqn2EZ

[Hizzie]

p/BrN6ds2HzTg

[KG]

Does anyone have any experience/opinions regarding the Sabrewerks KOP system? Looks like a solid setup, but I’ve never used one.

http://sabrewerks.com/system.htm

I’m having a rifle built and considering having this installed.

[Hizzie]

Does anyone have any experience/opinions regarding the Sabrewerks KOP system? Looks like a solid setup, but I’ve never used one.

http://sabrewerks.com/system.htm

I’m having a rifle built and considering having this installed.


It is solid if properly installed. The dovetail between the upper and lower is very tight. I have a few buddies that run them in competition. They haven’t any failures with them yet.

[nalesq]

I know that the Magpul MOE (all polymer) 7.62x39 AK mags were originally billed as being suitable for training/fun use only, due to the lack of steel reinforced locking lugs, compared to the Gen M3 version. But years later, has actual heavy use confirmed that to be the case? Or are the MOE mags virtually “good enough?”

Also, does anyone know if there is any difference in fragility between the 20 round and 30 round MOE mags? For I noticed Magpul doesn’t seem to make a 20 round Gen M3. Might this be because 20 rounders are less prone to broken lugs due to the reduced leverage, or something like that?


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[Hizzie]

I’m tempting fate but I haven’t had an AK pmag fail yet. I’ve run them in classes and range days since 2015. A handful of mine are original gen1 mags. I have a bunch of the gen2 30’s, a half dozen 20’s and a few of the M3’s. They fit in every gun I own, including milled.

[Casual Friday]

I’m tempting fate but I haven’t had an AK pmag fail yet. I’ve run them in classes and range days since 2015. A handful of mine are original gen1 mags. I have a bunch of the gen2 30’s, a half dozen 20’s and a few of the M3’s. They fit in every gun I own, including milled.

Agreed. I've got several and have had no problems with them and I haven't broke one yet. If you listen to the FB AK groups, AK Pmags will vaporize into a pile of polymer dust as soon as you look at them sideways, actual real world experience with them need not apply.

[Hizzie]

New lower from RS Regulate for the krink owners. The AK-302M is a rear biased lower half designed to work around the limitations imposed by the top cover mounted rear sight. The SAM7K SBR conversion to a proper SAM7SFK is smoking hot.

p/BtLgORFHs8J

[Hizzie]

The GKR-10MS just dropped. They will go fast. Discount code is “Hizzie”

p/BtTMhgdn0Bi

——->——>https://rsregulate.com/product/gkr-10ms/<—-<—-

[Hizzie]

Little 106CR rocking the RS Regulate GKR-10MS handguard.

p/BtoiHKSHEIZ

[StraitR]

Is there a current BCM equivalent manufacturer for AK's these days? I had an Arsenal SGL 21 a number of years ago, and it was nice. Sold it to a friend who won't sell it back. haha

I'm considering another AK, just for fun and variety. Is Arsenal still a safe bet? I think they're only importing the Bulgarian SLR's at this point.

[Hizzie]

Is there a current BCM equivalent manufacturer for AK's these days? I had an Arsenal SGL 21 a number of years ago, and it was nice. Sold it to a friend who won't sell it back. haha

I'm considering another AK, just for fun and variety. Is Arsenal still a safe bet? I think they're only importing the Bulgarian SLR's at this point.

Arsenal has slipped slightly and military contracts have reduced imports causing prices to be higher. Depending on the features you want the WASR is a decent alternative. Avoid the zastsva guns - heat treat issues.

Of course you could take SAM7K or Draco and brace it as a third option.

[KG]

Here’s another option for a new AK. I hired a local shop (JBI Armory) to put together a rifle for about the same total price as a new Arsenal. New Romanian parts, ALG trigger, Saberwerks KOP, and Cerakote. The Romanian parts were an M+M kit. The best part is the KOP. If you are building a rifle, I highly recommend it. Lots of mount adapters for various optics, co-witness back-up, very solid, and easy to change out. I’ll probably end up with an Aimpoint Micro Mount. The base and one mount will add about $200 to your rifle. Fred Stecher at Saberwerks was helpful and easy to work with.

The machining on the Romanian parts is rough. If it keeps running as well as it does I won’t care.

35758

35760

35759

Not sure what I’ll eventually do about the stock and handguard. Is the Magpul Zhukov the best side-folding stock option?

[StraitR]

Arsenal has slipped slightly and military contracts have reduced imports causing prices to be higher. Depending on the features you want the WASR is a decent alternative. Avoid the zastsva guns - heat treat issues.

Of course you could take SAM7K or Draco and brace it as a third option.


I'll likely be stuck buying online, so I'm looking for the best chance of getting something straight and functional right out of the box. Is the SLR series a safe bet then? WASR's have been historically hit or miss, with most that I've seen being a miss. Has that changed?

Pistols are cool, but I prefer a standard carbine length for this one.

ETA: How are the Riley Defense offerings?

[Hizzie]

I'll likely be stuck buying online, so I'm looking for the best chance of getting something straight and functional right out of the box. Is the SLR series a safe bet then? WASR's have been historically hit or miss, with most that I've seen being a miss. Has that changed?

Pistols are cool, but I prefer a standard carbine length for this one.

ETA: How are the Riley Defense offerings?

Riley Defense are a No Go in the circles I frequent.

Do you remember the M+M Inc M10’s? Things started improving with them. The RO and XX in the serial number for all new parts and year of manufacture. Finish is still rough but crooked as hell is no longer the norm. CeNtUrY (I’m lol’ing for the autocorrect on that one) is now using the stock and HG for compliance so they are shit USA manufactured balsa wood.

The SLRs are good. Still possible to get a canted gun though. And the Arsenal paint is still shit. Nothing stronger than CLP or it melts.

[StraitR]

Riley Defense are a No Go in the circles I frequent.

Do you remember the M+M Inc M10’s? Things started improving with them. The RO and XX in the serial number for all new parts and year of manufacture. Finish is still rough but crooked as hell is no longer the norm. CeNtUrY (I’m lol’ing for the autocorrect on that one) is now using the stock and HG for compliance so they are shit USA manufactured balsa wood.

The SLRs are good. Still possible to get a canted gun though. And the Arsenal paint is still shit. Nothing stronger than CLP or it melts.

Understood. I'll see if I can find a local WASR to check out. I'm aware of the Arsenal paint being shit. I'm not opposed to refinishing, as long as the gun is mechanically sound. I don't need it to be pretty anyway, it's an AK. :)

Any other companies to look at? Otherwise, I'll likely hunt down a SLR-107R.

[MSparks909]

I own a SLR-107FR, a SAM7R and have a 107CR on the way from Atlantic Firearms. I’d take a look at the SAM7Rs too. It’s hard to find a 107R/FR right now but SAM7s are still plentiful. The SLR is a little lighter. I enjoy shooting both but can’t pick between either of them if I had to have only one.

[nalesq]

Amazing how much AK pricing has changed over the years. If, as a college student in the late 1990s, you had told me a day was coming when a new unbanned Colt AR could be found for less than $800 and a used ban configuration MAK-90 could cost more than $1000, I would have laughed in your face.


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[Dorsai]

We were used to kit built guns, made with parts manufactured in big, licensed factories with ComBloc labor rates. When you want the same quality as a Russian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Polish rifle, with modern equipment and Western labor rates, the price has to go up. AK's were not cheap to make, they were technologically simpler than the AR for the ComBloc nations and their client states.

[StraitR]

Amazing how much AK pricing has changed over the years. If, as a college student in the late 1990s, you had told me a day was coming when a new unbanned Colt AR could be found for less than $800 and a used ban configuration MAK-90 could cost more than $1000, I would have laughed in your face.


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I was just thinking the same thing. I'm a little surprised by the current pricing. Might have to scratch my "something different" itch with something other than an AK. haha

[nalesq]

We were used to kit built guns, made with parts manufactured in big, licensed factories with ComBloc labor rates. When you want the same quality as a Russian, Bulgarian, Romanian, Polish rifle, with modern equipment and Western labor rates, the price has to go up. AK's were not cheap to make, they were technologically simpler than the AR for the ComBloc nations and their client states.

I totally get that AK prices were artificially deflated for some time due to huge surpluses created by the collapse of the Warsaw Pact, and now are probably inflated a bit due to various import bans that seem to be restricting any new Chinese and Russian weapons.

I therefore don’t think paying quality AR prices for a quality AK is necessarily unreasonable in principle. The problem is trying to figure out what “quality” means for an AK these days. A lot of the AKs being made today for the commercial US market appear to be of questionable quality, especially with respect to durability.

My guess is that this is because very few enthusiasts - even out of the already small pool of truly dedicated carbine shooters - will subject an AK to high stress, high volume training, and the manufacturers know it.



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[Hizzie]

I own a SLR-107FR, a SAM7R and have a 107CR on the way from Atlantic Firearms. I’d take a look at the SAM7Rs too. It’s hard to find a 107R/FR right now but SAM7s are still plentiful. The SLR is a little lighter. I enjoy shooting both but can’t pick between either of them if I had to have only one.

The SAM7R is absolutely worth a look, especially when compared to the 107R. The milled SAM series are super smooth and, IMHO, more enjoyable to shoot.

[Dorsai]

Quality has many components such as durability, reliability, accuracy, ergonomics, parts commonality, etc. I don't necessarily have single recommendation, but here are some ideas for your research. With regards to durability, look up some of the older threads on the AK forums and AR15.com from Doc Cheney/Ron Cheney/Battlefield Vegas on what has worked well at a machine gun rental range. He put more documented rounds through rifles than we will shoot in two lifetimes. My recollection is that milled receiver rifles ran nearly forever and WASR10s almost that long. Longer than I'll ever need. His information is very interesting and useful, but only partially relevant to the OP's question. They only shoot at short ranges, so accuracy is not an issue. Barrels are shot out when they no longer headspace or rounds start to keyhole. They've had some develop cracks, which are often repaired/welded, more than once before the rifle is retired and the receiver cut up.

My other suggestion is Rob Ski at AK Operators Union 47/74. He does semi-abusive testing, including 5,000 round endurance testing with regular headspace measurements, checks for wear, accuracy, etc. As you probably already know, the WASR10 and the earlier SAR1 are probably the only Century AKs that are worth the money. Everything else fails in a relatively short time. Paradoxically, despite their low cost, the Palmetto State AKs run well, are durable, and accurate. Right now, he's testing a Polish import and it is doing well. He only does up to 5,000 rd tests, which is enough to get a good idea on their durability for most of us. And he does a lot of different makes, which is more than I can say for most. So I think his reviews are very useful. I don't have any suggestions on the small shops. Some did well, some were constant failures, and price was not an indicator.

[StraitR]

Had a PFer reach out with a gracious offer on a LNIB 2014 vintage Arsenal SLR-107FR. So, that settles the rifle. This place never ceases to amaze me. I have some Karma to spread here soon.

What's the skinny on mags? Is it still check to see what works? I had a bunch of Circle 10's years ago. Looks like those are still $60 a pop. How are the Magpul mags?

ETA: Ammo... What is everyone plinking with?

[Hizzie]

Had a PFer reach out with a gracious offer on a LNIB 2014 vintage Arsenal SLR-107FR. So, that settles the rifle. This place never ceases to amaze me. I have some Karma to spread here soon.

What's the skinny on mags? Is it still check to see what works? I had a bunch of Circle 10's years ago. Looks like those are still $60 a pop. How are the Magpul mags?

ETA: Ammo... What is everyone plinking with?

Magpul mags are GTG. The new X-Tech Mag47 is showing promise.

[MSparks909]

Had a PFer reach out with a gracious offer on a LNIB 2014 vintage Arsenal SLR-107FR. So, that settles the rifle. This place never ceases to amaze me. I have some Karma to spread here soon.

What's the skinny on mags? Is it still check to see what works? I had a bunch of Circle 10's years ago. Looks like those are still $60 a pop. How are the Magpul mags?

ETA: Ammo... What is everyone plinking with?

I’ve got thousands of rounds of Wolf and Golden Tiger stockpiled..usually my go-to AK ammo. Wolf, Tula, Golden Tiger, Brown Bear, Red Army Standard...whatever is cheapest honestly. SGAmmo usually has good pricing. I’m running a bunch of Hungarian, Croatian and ((10)) mags.. Also have a lot of PMags. Aim Surplus usually has decent pricing on metal mags.

[nalesq]

Are the Korean AK mags still garbage?


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[JRB]

Are the Korean AK mags still garbage?


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I have 5 of the Korean 20 round mags and 3 of the 30 round mags. One of the 20 rounders was a dud, the rest work great. The springs are a bit stiffer as the mag fills up vs surplus magazines but I suppose that's to be expected of a new mag.

I've heard from other folks that the newer Korean mags are improved from the older grey ones like mine, too.

[Hizzie]

Are the Korean AK mags still garbage?


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Hot garbage. Tapco > KCI

Magpul pmags work fine and you can get them ~$9 on sale.

[StraitR]

Hot garbage. Tapco > KCI

Magpul pmags work fine and you can get them ~$9 on sale.

You're referring to the Gen 1 mags with plastic feed lips, correct? I like the sound of $9.

[MSparks909]

You're referring to the Gen 1 mags with plastic feed lips, correct? I like the sound of $9.

I’ve got a bunch of Gen 1 PMags I use for range use. No issues and fit snugly in my Arsenal magwells. Gonna throw a RDS on it?

Another worthwhile mod I do to all my AKs is to run a Krebs enhanced safety. They have a shelf on the safety that allows you to take it off safe with your trigger finger. It’s intuitive and faster for me but YMMV. The Vickers AK sling is also a go-to for me.

[StraitR]

I’ve got a bunch of Gen 1 PMags I use for range use. No issues and fit snugly in my Arsenal magwells. Gonna throw a RDS on it?

Another worthwhile mod I do to all my AKs is to run a Krebs enhanced safety. They have a shelf on the safety that allows you to take it off safe with your trigger finger. It’s intuitive and faster for me but YMMV. The Vickers AK sling is also a go-to for me.

Cool, I'll buy a couple to start with.

For now, I'm going to run irons for a bit. I know most people dislike AK irons, but I see them well. If I do a red dot, I may look into picking up a 30mm aimpoint, as I don't see through the micros very well. That, or try to mount the micro closer to my eye via RS Regulate rear lower mount.

This may come as a surprise, but I already have some AK parts coming. :p Shocker, I know. Picked up a few things from AKOU webstore. A "Polish" enhanced safety, because it has a larger ledge than the Krebs (I have trigger finger dexterity limitations, so bigger is better). Also got a Fighter 24 muzzle brake and a hammer/trigger pin retainer plate (had the same on my SGL-21).

Considering a ALG trigger, based on the issues I'm reading about the Arsenal 2-stage trigger. Anyone have any experience with the ALG?

[Casual Friday]

Cool, I'll buy a couple to start with.

For now, I'm going to run irons for a bit. I know most people dislike AK irons, but I see them well. If I do a red dot, I may look into picking up a 30mm aimpoint, as I don't see through the micros very well. That, or try to mount the micro closer to my eye via RS Regulate rear lower mount.

This may come as a surprise, but I already have some AK parts coming. :p Shocker, I know. Picked up a few things from AKOU webstore. A "Polish" enhanced safety, because it has a larger ledge than the Krebs (I have trigger finger dexterity limitations, so bigger is better). Also got a Fighter 24 muzzle brake and a hammer/trigger pin retainer plate (had the same on my SGL-21).

Considering a ALG trigger, based on the issues I'm reading about the Arsenal 2-stage trigger. Anyone have any experience with the ALG?

I have the ALG trigger in two of mine. Combloc AK triggers make milspec AR triggers feel like a top shelf Geissele so the ALG is a big improvement for the AK. When I shoot my Draco with the stock trigger after shooting one of my others with the ALG the difference is huge. I use the auxiliary spring as well, it gives the trigger a much more positive reset while not adding much if any pull weight. Just an FYI, it may be a simple drop in and it may require modification for the safety to engage properly.

[StraitR]

Cool. I'll see how it comes and change if I feel it's necessary. I really want to keep it as stock as possible, which is how I enjoy my guns for the most part.

[Bigghoss]

The ALG AKT is pretty awesome.

[nalesq]

Picked up a few things from AKOU webstore. A "Polish" enhanced safety, because it has a larger ledge than the Krebs (I have trigger finger dexterity limitations, so bigger is better).

I have the Polish enhanced safety on one of my AKs, and while it works very well, the one downside of it which I discovered is that if you aren’t mindful of the way you work the charging handle and do so aggressively (especially if the weapon is rotated so that the charging handle is pointed downwards during a speed reload), that ledge can cut the hell out of your hand if you aren’t wearing gloves.


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[Hizzie]

The Armacon Arms/IPSC Lab safety is my favorite. The flat ledge works better and is more comfortable. I just wanted everything the same so all guns wear Krebs since Marc makes a milled version.

[StraitR]

I have the Polish enhanced safety on one of my AKs, and while it works very well, the one downside of it which I discovered is that if you aren’t mindful of the way you work the charging handle and do so aggressively (especially if the weapon is rotated so that the charging handle is pointed downwards during a speed reload), that ledge can cut the hell out of your hand if you aren’t wearing gloves.


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Thanks for the insight. I'll definitely watch for that.

[Hizzie]

Last minute prep for class this weekend. I have a buddy coming in to try running an AK for the first time. He’s borrowing the two on the right as a primary and spare. Needed to confirm zero with the primary and make sure the irons were zeroed on the spare. I needed to rezero my acog after dropping in the RS Regulate GKR-10MS. The new PA Raptor 1-6 needed zero to be run hard in class. All I had loose was some Golden Tiger which the SF doesn’t care for. Oddly Wolf seems to shoot the best for me.

p/Burrh8yH_8C

Three 5 shot groups with some scope adjustments to refine zero.
p/But0hlDnz30

[StraitR]

The GKR-10MS just dropped. They will go fast. Discount code is “Hizzie”

p/BtTMhgdn0Bi

——->——>https://rsregulate.com/product/gkr-10ms/<—-<—-


Hizzie, any idea when the next batch of these will be available? Installation seems pretty simple. How does the installation of the 10m compare?

[Hizzie]

Hizzie, any idea when the next batch of these will be available? Installation seems pretty simple. How does the installation of the 10m compare?

10M lacks the sling loop cutout. Gotta chop, file or grind it off. That honestly probably makes the HAg itself easier to install not having to get the loop lined up with the slot.

[StraitR]

10M lacks the sling loop cutout. Gotta chop, file or grind it off. That honestly probably makes the HAg itself easier to install not having to get the loop lined up with the slot.

Cool. I'm open to cutting that thumb burner off. Any idea when the next drop will be, on either?

[Hizzie]

Cool. I'm open to cutting that thumb burner off. Any idea when the next drop will be, on either?

Should be soon. I think they are at the anodizer.

[StraitR]

Hizzie Do you know if the Attero Bravo mount for T2 allows the dust cover to be removed without removing the mount? I saw a couple pages back that you have a buddy running these mounts. Is he still happy with them?

I'm exploring mount options that will still allow me to use the side folding ability on an SLR-107RF. Seems it's either this rear leaf type, or an Ultimak. I'd rather use this leaf style, if it works as intended and without known issues.

[Hizzie]

Hizzie Do you know if the Attero Bravo mount for T2 allows the dust cover to be removed without removing the mount? I saw a couple pages back that you have a buddy running these mounts. Is he still happy with them?

I'm exploring mount options that will still allow me to use the side folding ability on an SLR-107RF. Seems it's either this rear leaf type, or an Ultimak. I'd rather use this leaf style, if it works as intended and without known issues.

They do although it is really tight. My buddy is a dealer for them. The Atterro is better than the TWS version. Less complaints about fit. Realistically how much do you plan on using the folding stock? Any mount that puts the optic forward of the rifle’s natural balance point only accentuate how front heavy the AK is.

[StraitR]

They do although it is really tight. My buddy is a dealer for them. The Atterro is better than the TWS version. Less complaints about fit. Realistically how much do you plan on using the folding stock? Any mount that puts the optic forward of the rifle’s natural balance point only accentuate how front heavy the AK is.

After looking into the mounts, I was definitely going Atterro if doing this leaf mount.

I don't know how often I'd use the folding stock, likely not very often, so I was considering the RS Regulate and if I felt compelled to use the side folder, just take the optic off.

[Casual Friday]

Hizzie Do you know if the Attero Bravo mount for T2 allows the dust cover to be removed without removing the mount? I saw a couple pages back that you have a buddy running these mounts. Is he still happy with them?

I'm exploring mount options that will still allow me to use the side folding ability on an SLR-107RF. Seems it's either this rear leaf type, or an Ultimak. I'd rather use this leaf style, if it works as intended and without known issues.

I have the Attero Bravo on my Draco and a WASR. It's tight as Hizzie said, but once you do it a couple times it's a piece of cake. I've had no problems with it holding zero on newer production guns like the two I have them on, but when I installed one on my old beat up parts kit gun that I built, not only does it sit so low that the dust cover can't be reinstalled without removing the set screw on the mount, but there is enough of a gap in the rear sight tower between the sides and the mount for it to move around and not hold zero. I've heard of people having that issue and threading the hole in the mount and using a screw instead of the roll pin, but it wasn't worth it to me. That is a testament to the wild tolerances of old country cold war era combloc guns and not a Attero issue. I went back to an Ultimak on that gun.

The Attero Bravo is my preferred way to mount a red dot on an AK these days and I was glad to see Khyber Customs become a dealer. Getting one directly from Attero used to be kind of a PITA, comms weren't great, but it was a young guy and his Dad and I think they were doing as best as they could. Now just having to focus on production, with KC distributing them, it's much easier to get ahold of one.

[StraitR]

^^^^ Thanks for the info.

I've read about the sight block variance from rifle to rifle being a potential problem with this type of mount, and it makes total sense. I may try one of the Atterro's.

[Hizzie]

You're referring to the Gen 1 mags with plastic feed lips, correct? I like the sound of $9.

Gen1 and Gen2. The Gen3 are the M3 with metal reinforcement.

[Casual Friday]

Gen1 and Gen2. The Gen3 are the M3 with metal reinforcement.

Just don't tell the Files or the AK groups on FB that the all polymer PMAGS work for you or the guys who have zero experience with them will let you know that they are prone to failure.

[Hizzie]

Just don't tell the Files or the AK groups on FB that the all polymer PMAGS work for you or the guys who have zero experience with them will let you know that they are prone to failure.

I’m not bashful. The keyboard commandos get all fired up about it. Claim to have broken a bunch of Magpul mags just shooting from the bench. I beat and drop mine without failure. *shrug*

[KG]

Anybody have experience with the CNC Warrior side fold stock? Looks like a good option for a side folder with a standard rear trunnion.

http://www.cncwarrior.com/AK-Saiga-Sidefolder-p/25362.htm

[Hizzie]

Anybody have experience with the CNC Warrior side fold stock? Looks like a good option for a side folder with a standard rear trunnion.

http://www.cncwarrior.com/AK-Saiga-Sidefolder-p/25362.htm

Rock solid. Only complaint I had was it was Warsaw and not nato length.

[KG]

Rock solid. Only complaint I had was it was Warsaw and not nato length.

Thanks. Looks like they have a NATO length now as well.

[Hizzie]

Ran the beater SF with RS Regulate GKR-10MS in class over the weekend. As the pace and round count increased we got gas blocks over 200 degrees. The forward portion of the SF’s milled receiver exceeded 120 degrees. The warmest spot of the GKR was still under 100 degrees. That’s a noticeable difference.

With regards to the LPVO I can see why they are becoming the standard optic on AR15’s.

p/Bu3rCl5HlU7

[nalesq]

With regards to the LPVO I can see why they are becoming the standard optic on AR15’s.

Agreed, but AKs are already so fracking heavy, I can’t quite bring myself to put such a heavy optic on any of mine.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Hizzie]

Agreed, but AKs are already so fracking heavy, I can’t quite bring myself to put such a heavy optic on any of mine.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I didn’t even notice it. Heavy scope on a milled AK.

[GAP]

Agreed, but AKs are already so fracking heavy, I can’t quite bring myself to put such a heavy optic on any of mine.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

It helps to position everything farther back with an RS Mount. I always went with Ultimak’s and after using AR’s for a bit recently, I am re-thinking that approach.

Not that you would put a scope on an Ultimak; I just recently realized how front heavy it becomes.

[Hizzie]

It helps to position everything farther back with an RS Mount. I always went with Ultimak’s and after using AR’s for a bit recently, I am re-thinking that approach.

Not that you would put a scope on an Ultimak; I just recently realized how front heavy it becomes.

Google it. Guys do run scout scope setups off the Ultimak. Balance is one of the reasons I prefer side mount. Also why I like milled guns.

Shot you a code in case you take the plunge.

[23JAZ]

I’m currently looking at the Century Arms C39V2 blade pistol. Anyone with first hand knowledge on these? I was going to build an AR pistol but 5.56 out of short barrel is not the best, and 300 Blk will get pricey with high volume shooting. This specific model popped up on my radar as I’m trying to keep the cost under a grand.

[Casual Friday]

I’m currently looking at the Century Arms C39V2 blade pistol. Anyone with first hand knowledge on these? I was going to build an AR pistol but 5.56 out of short barrel is not the best, and 300 Blk will get pricey with high volume shooting. This specific model popped up on my radar as I’m trying to keep the cost under a grand.

Run away. They are cast and dangerous to operate. Many examples of them blowing up from loss of headspace in a few hundred rounds. Best advice, avoid any US made AK.

If you're looking for a relatively inexpensive AK pistol, get a Romanian Draco.

[HCM]

I’m currently looking at the Century Arms C39V2 blade pistol. Anyone with first hand knowledge on these? I was going to build an AR pistol but 5.56 out of short barrel is not the best, and 300 Blk will get pricey with high volume shooting. This specific model popped up on my radar as I’m trying to keep the cost under a grand.

I would look at the Polish AK pistols from Atlantic Firearms over anything made by Century. They dont come with the brace but they are in the mid $600s and they do come with a forward 1913 rail so you should be able to stay under a grand.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-pistol-wbp-lynx-classic

If not a Draco.

[Hizzie]

The following are steaming piles of turd that borderline on dangerous:

Century RAS47
Century C39
Century C39 V2
Century “American” Draco - any size

Too many reports of the guns going out of headspace in under 2k. Too many reports of rifles grenading. I would avoid the new VSAK too based on past performance.


The PSA have had many issues with reliability and durability too.

Too many guns with bad heat treat coming out of Zastava the past few years. PAP, NPAP, OPAP and M92 all randomly effected. No “safe” date range.

The Romanian, Cugir built, guns improved around 2012.

Arsenal ((10)) guns declined slightly.

[JRB]

The following are steaming piles of turd that borderline on dangerous:

Century RAS47
Century C39
Century C39 V2
Century “American” Draco - any size

Too many reports of the guns going out of headspace in under 2k. Too many reports of rifles grenading. I would avoid the new VSAK too based on past performance.


The PSA have had many issues with reliability and durability too.

Too many guns with bad heat treat coming out of Zastava the past few years. PAP, NPAP, OPAP and M92 all randomly effected. No “safe” date range.

The Romanian, Cugir built, guns improved around 2012.

Arsenal ((10)) guns declined slightly.

I follow the AK stuff pretty closely because I have several of them - and this is the first I've read anywhere about the OPAP also being affected by the heat treat issue. Everything else I've seen indicated that PAP & NPAP models were the problematic ones, and M92's occasionally but uncommonly affected.

I have around ~4k through my OPAP with zero issues. I do periodically examine my AK's closely for egging FCG holes, barrel pin movement, etc just on principles I learned from dealing with some shoddy home built AK's over the years. I have about 1k through my M92 as well - no issues.

Do you have any guidance on what I can continue to examine to see if they're affected by the bad heat-treat?

[Hizzie]

I follow the AK stuff pretty closely because I have several of them - and this is the first I've read anywhere about the OPAP also being affected by the heat treat issue. Everything else I've seen indicated that PAP & NPAP models were the problematic ones, and M92's occasionally but uncommonly affected.

I have around ~4k through my OPAP with zero issues. I do periodically examine my AK's closely for egging FCG holes, barrel pin movement, etc just on principles I learned from dealing with some shoddy home built AK's over the years. I have about 1k through my M92 as well - no issues.

Do you have any guidance on what I can continue to examine to see if they're affected by the bad heat-treat?

Sounds like you are doing it right. I had heat treatment issues on one of my OPAP’s. FC holes started to egg, bullet guide was coming out. Bolt and BCG looked ok. Under 2k rounds.

[23JAZ]

I would look at the Polish AK pistols from Atlantic Firearms over anything made by Century. They dont come with the brace but they are in the mid $600s and they do come with a forward 1913 rail so you should be able to stay under a grand.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-pistol-wbp-lynx-classic

If not a Draco.

Looks like the Polish AK pistols are out stock. The Romainian Draco, imported by Century is available. Do the Polish AK come back in stock regularly?

[That Guy]

Agreed, but AKs are already so fracking heavy, I can’t quite bring myself to put such a heavy optic on any of mine.


I used to have a Trijicon TR21 on a BP-02 side mount on my milled receiver Arsenal. I did not care for the overall weight, either.

[JRB]

Looks like the Polish AK pistols are out stock. The Romainian Draco, imported by Century is available. Do the Polish AK come back in stock regularly?

Atlantic Arms is the best source for stuff like that but stuff like that tends to come in batches and sell out quickly.

Best bet for an off-the-shelf option is the imported Draco - many vendors do not specify whether it's the US made or imported Draco, but the imported one is Century Arms product number HG1916-N

They're easily found around $600 from a variety of vendors that have them in-stock.

[Casual Friday]

Looks like the Polish AK pistols are out stock. The Romainian Draco, imported by Century is available. Do the Polish AK come back in stock regularly?

They come in in spurts. You'd have to get on the email list, and jump right away, I don't think many get imported at one time.

Draco's can always be found. #dracoseason (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=dracoseason)

[HCM]

Looks like the Polish AK pistols are out stock. The Romainian Draco, imported by Century is available. Do the Polish AK come back in stock regularly?

I’d call Atlantic or try gun broker.

[Mntneer357]

The following are steaming piles of turd that borderline on dangerous:

Century RAS47
Century C39
Century C39 V2
Century “American” Draco - any size

Too many reports of the guns going out of headspace in under 2k. Too many reports of rifles grenading. I would avoid the new VSAK too based on past performance.


The PSA have had many issues with reliability and durability too.

Too many guns with bad heat treat coming out of Zastava the past few years. PAP, NPAP, OPAP and M92 all randomly effected. No “safe” date range.

The Romanian, Cugir built, guns improved around 2012.

Arsenal ((10)) guns declined slightly.

I appreciate your time and thank you for the above "do not buy" list. For those of us new to the AK world, experienced advice is invaluable. Is there already somewhere a list of solid AK buys? I've heard Arsenal's SAM7 series is pretty amazing, but also a bit spendy.

[Hizzie]

I appreciate your time and thank you for the above "do not buy" list. For those of us new to the AK world, experienced advice is invaluable. Is there already somewhere a list of solid AK buys? I've heard Arsenal's SAM7 series is pretty amazing, but also a bit spendy.

The SAM7 is pretty amazing. Great deals on used SAM7’s are out there. IME milled guns are smoother than stamped. They do weigh more. Although a recent discussion about that puts it in perspective.

Arsenal SLR-107R 7.3lbs
Arsenal SAM7R 8.0lbs

Loaded gen2 AK Pmag ~1.45lbs

So real world the difference is less than half a loaded magazine difference. Now consider where that weight is located. All that extra weight is in the receiver placing it right over the hands. IMHO the balance is better and the milled guns don’t seem as nose heavy.

Arsenal Bulgaria
Cugir Romania
VEPR Russia (no longer imported)
Saiga Russia (no longer imported)
Norinco China (no longer imported)

Krebs Customs, Definitive Arms and a few others put out excellent guns.

[Jay585]

The SAM7 is pretty amazing. Great deals on used SAM7’s are out there. IME milled guns are smoother than stamped. They do weigh more. Although a recent discussion about that puts it in perspective.

Arsenal SLR-107R 7.3lbs
Arsenal SAM7R 8.0lbs

Loaded gen2 AK Pmag ~1.45lbs

So real world the difference is less than half a loaded magazine difference. Now consider where that weight is located. All that extra weight is in the receiver placing it right over the hands. IMHO the balance is better and the milled guns don’t seem as nose heavy.

Arsenal Bulgaria
Cugir Romania
VEPR Russia (no longer imported)
Saiga Russia (no longer imported)
Norinco China (no longer imported)

Krebs Customs, Definitive Arms and a few others put out excellent guns.

Any thoughts about kit builders? I want to get a 1985 (birth year) numbers matching, original barrel kit and have it done up. I'm thinking Polish AKM or a AKS74U but with AK-100 Folding Stock Set in Walnut (https://www.legionusa.com/ak-100-folding-laminate-wood-stock-set.html).

[Hizzie]

Any thoughts about kit builders? I want to get a 1985 (birth year) numbers matching, original barrel kit and have it done up. I'm thinking Polish AKM or a AKS74U but with AK-100 Folding Stock Set in Walnut (https://www.legionusa.com/ak-100-folding-laminate-wood-stock-set.html).

M13 Industries is who builds for all my guys.

[JRB]

Any thoughts about kit builders? I want to get a 1985 (birth year) numbers matching, original barrel kit and have it done up. I'm thinking Polish AKM or a AKS74U but with AK-100 Folding Stock Set in Walnut (https://www.legionusa.com/ak-100-folding-laminate-wood-stock-set.html).

A numbers matching 1985 AKS-74U kit with original barrel will be a VERY expensive kit, and hard to find. Being a 1985 it'll also have a 4.5mm stock pin which will be incompatible with that stock set, and the handguards won't fit the shorter AKS-74U handguard length. Though that walnut is damn pretty!

It's entirely possible to just get a 1985 trunnion and mixmaster the kit to suit your ideal combination - it's just not going to happen on a OG barrel matching kit.

[Jay585]

A numbers matching 1985 AKS-74U kit with original barrel will be a VERY expensive kit, and hard to find. Being a 1985 it'll also have a 4.5mm stock pin which will be incompatible with that stock set, and the handguards won't fit the shorter AKS-74U handguard length. Though that walnut is damn pretty!

It's entirely possible to just get a 1985 trunnion and mixmaster the kit to suit your ideal combination - it's just not going to happen on a OG barrel matching kit.

Good point, I hadn't known about the differences in hinge pin sizes. Legion does sell 5.5 trunnions (out of stock IIRC) but you're right about the hand guard. Honestly I lean towards the Polish AKM because it won't need to be SBR'd or pin/welded. Plus, it's iconic.

[Hizzie]

Forgot how much I like the Unity Tactical VFG. Big enough to be useful but small enough not to interfere with mag changes. This is the last pic of the beater SF looking like a rescue. She’s getting a fancy cerakote job from Eleven Mile.

p/BvT4RTiHoO0

[KG]

M13 Industries is who builds for all my guys.

Which 7.62x39 barrel have you been using?

[Hizzie]

Which 7.62x39 barrel have you been using?


I have not had any builds done. Some of my guys have. I believe several have used barrels from JMAC Customs.

[Casual Friday]

Which 7.62x39 barrel have you been using?


https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak47-barrel-romanian

[StraitR]

Anyone go to the trouble of correcting loose muzzle devices? I realize it’s normal, but has anyone sanded/filed the rear to correct timing, or shimmed, or whatever and seen an appreciable accuracy difference?

My SLR-107fr seems to shoot fine (Wolf 124gr) with fighter brake, but it’s loose. I don’t know how much better it could get with cheap ammo, irons, and me pulling the trigger.

[Hizzie]

Anyone go to the trouble of correcting loose muzzle devices? I realize it’s normal, but has anyone sanded/filed the rear to correct timing, or shimmed, or whatever and seen an appreciable accuracy difference?

My SLR-107fr seems to shoot fine (Wolf 124gr) with fighter brake, but it’s loose. I don’t know how much better it could get with cheap ammo, irons, and me pulling the trigger.

See how it shoots without muzzle device before you bother with all that.

[Casual Friday]

Anyone go to the trouble of correcting loose muzzle devices? I realize it’s normal, but has anyone sanded/filed the rear to correct timing, or shimmed, or whatever and seen an appreciable accuracy difference?

My SLR-107fr seems to shoot fine (Wolf 124gr) with fighter brake, but it’s loose. I don’t know how much better it could get with cheap ammo, irons, and me pulling the trigger.

Warbly muzzle devices bother me more than they probably should. Timing muzzle devices so they won't rattle can be a huge pain in the ass, especially when they only have one correct orientation. The Definitive Arms fighter brake I bought just so happened to be about 1/4 turn past the detent when threaded all the way down, so I had to remove a lot of material from it to get it tight. If you were to take a little too much, you're right back to square one.

If you use something like this AKML-C from Khyber Customs, there are several notches and that makes it easy to time it perfectly with no wiggle.

36603

[Hizzie]

These work well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PWS-High-Temperature-O-Ring-Ships-from-the-United-States-New-/391338540174

[StraitR]

See how it shoots without muzzle device before you bother with all that.

Agreed, and a worthwhile test to establish baseline rifle accuracy. That said, the POA/POI and potential accuracy will likely change with the addition of a muzzle device, secured or wobbly. Mine didn’t disappoint with Wolf and the fighter brake, just curious if anyone spent time securing the muzzle device and saw a difference.


Warbly muzzle devices bother me more than they probably should. Timing muzzle devices so they won't rattle can be a huge pain in the ass, especially when they only have one correct orientation. The Definitive Arms fighter brake I bought just so happened to be about 1/4 turn past the detent when threaded all the way down, so I had to remove a lot of material from it to get it tight. If you were to take a little too much, you're right back to square one.

If you use something like this AKML-C from Khyber Customs, there are several notches and that makes it easy to time it perfectly with no wiggle.



It probably annoys me more than anything. Haha

My Fighter 24 brake is about a 1/3 turn past the detent.


These work well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PWS-High-Temperature-O-Ring-Ships-from-the-United-States-New-/391338540174

I read about using high temp O-rings. Do they make them big enough for 24mm muzzle devices?


@Hizzie (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=9851) I’m about to cave on the RS optic mount, just can’t decide what lower mount to get for a micro. I want to try it closer to my eye, but never shoot without a baseball hat and worry they may conflict with not enough room to move it forward. Alternatively, can I move it rearward enough on the forward mount to accomplish my goal. Maybe just get the full lower. Haha

[Hizzie]

I have not seen a 24mm appropriate high temp O ring like the PWS.

The real work weight difference between the 301/302/303 is negligible. If your worried about finding the sweet spot get the full length.

[StraitR]

I have not seen a 24mm appropriate high temp O ring like the PWS.

The real work weight difference between the 301/302/303 is negligible. If your worried about finding the sweet spot get the full length.

Thanks. I looked around, and couldn't find a 24mm high temp like PWS either. I'll just run it as is for now. If it bugs me enough, I'll file/sand to time it.

After looking a ton of pics, I went ahead and ordered the 302. I don't think it will be an issue, and I really want to see if placing it closer to the eye will help relieve some of the "looking through a dark straw" effect I get with micros. Also figured if I ever wanted to try a mini acog or similar prism, it was my best bet.

Got some Russian wood and bakelite going. I'll post a pic up soon enough. This AK thing is really growing one me. Now I want one of those Kyber cheese grater upper handguards. haha

[nalesq]

These work well.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PWS-High-Temperature-O-Ring-Ships-from-the-United-States-New-/391338540174

Those do indeed work, but I didn’t like the orange color. I ended up using a crush washer to time and tighten up my brake (a PWS FSC47).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[StraitR]

The SLR-107FR as I received, sans the Fighter 24 brake I put on before zeroing...

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4845/33521895998_f4256c483c_b.jpg

Now with some changes...

Fighter 24 muzzle brake.
RS Regulate 302m and AKML with T-2.
Russian wood lower handguard and bakelite grip.
Kyber Customs Swiss cheese grater upper handguard.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7872/32576106937_987990f3ac_b.jpg

I was having a "looking through a dark straw" effect with the T-2 on my AR, so I recently switched to an Eotech EXPS3-0. Moving the T-2 closer to my eye has basically solved this vision issue. Really happy with it so far, and looking forward to shooting it in the next carbine match.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7859/32576106987_da4a32a8b1_b.jpg

[KG]

Rock solid. Only complaint I had was it was Warsaw and not nato length.

CNC Warrior folding stock came in this week. Rock solid like you said. Thanks for the advice.

I ordered the NATO length, LOP is 13 5/8”, 14 1/8” with the optional rubber buttpad. My standard wood stock was 13” LOP. The CNC Warrior is 14.9 oz, the wood stock was 13.8 oz.

36968

36969

[Hizzie]

Looks awesome KG!

[StraitR]

Yeah, that looks great.

ETA: Is CNC the same as the old Ace?

[Hizzie]

Yeah, that looks great.

ETA: Is CNC the same as the old Ace?

Nope.

[ChknLivrNWsky]

Does anyone have experience with the CNC Bonesteel Stock?

I can't find any reviews of it out there online. It looks good on paper, but at $200 I'd like to get some real use feedback.

https://www.cncwarrior.com/Bone-Sidefolding-Buttstock-p/27913.htm

[Hizzie]

Does anyone have experience with the CNC Bonesteel Stock?

I can't find any reviews of it out there online. It looks good on paper, but at $200 I'd like to get some real use feedback.

https://www.cncwarrior.com/Bone-Sidefolding-Buttstock-p/27913.htm

The attachment method and hinge are solid. No experience with that particular stock option though.

[ChknLivrNWsky]

The attachment method and hinge are solid. No experience with that particular stock option though.

Thanks,

I had one of their hinges before, and was very impressed. I'm trying to see if anyone has any experience with how the stock itself is comfort wise. After shooting a Yugo that kept beating my cheek I just want to make sure I don't have to go through that again.

[Hizzie]

Thanks,

I had one of their hinges before, and was very impressed. I'm trying to see if anyone has any experience with how the stock itself is comfort wise. After shooting a Yugo that kept beating my cheek I just want to make sure I don't have to go through that again.

Yugo’s are notorious for that. I hated the original stocks on my OPAP’s. Both got swapped out with M76 stocks.

[ChknLivrNWsky]

Yugo’s are notorious for that. I hated the original stocks on my OPAP’s. Both got swapped out with M76 stocks.

Yeah I've shot Arsenals, Hungarian, Veprs, etc. I thought the whole cheek slap thing with Yugo's was just a bunch of internet talk until I shot my friends NPAP. After that it really gave me pause about switching out the factory stocks on my SGL. Not that I think every aftermarket stock is going to be as horrible as that Yugo, just that I definitely don't want to spend ~$200 on something that's going to make me miserable.

Do you happen to have any experience with the triangle stocks from CNC Warrior? Same hinge, just metal triangle for the actual stock part.

[Hizzie]

I ran the CNC Warrior folding buffer tube and the Galil style. Both were comfortable. Only regret with the Galil style was getting the Warsaw length instead of the nato length.

[Hizzie]

The RS Regulate krink handguards are out. Stamped or milled pattern guns. No yugo yet. Soon.

p/BwrxWR6Hen1

[Mjolnir]

Wow!

The AKM Platform seems to have matured nicely!

Awesome thread!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the Schwartz]

The RS Regulate krink handguards are out. Stamped or milled pattern guns. No yugo yet. Soon.

p/BwrxWR6Hen1

Is that a Russian Type-3 receiver? Stupid small screen on my cell phone is too stupid small.

[Hizzie]

Is that a Russian Type-3 receiver? Stupid small screen on my cell phone is too stupid small.

That is an Arsenal SAM7SF-K conversion. It is a milled receiver but I’m not sure what type it is considered being the most modern version.

[the Schwartz]

That is an Arsenal SAM7SF-K conversion. It is a milled receiver but I’m not sure what type it is considered being the most modern version.

Ah, thanks. Now that I am home and can view it on my laptop, I can see what it is now.

Love the Arsenal line up and envy the owner of that one. Very nice.

[powell556]

Any thoughts on modernizing an SKS? I'm not sure why I want one, but I have for a while. I don't care for wood on guns and the polymer stocks that are available seem kind of cheap and are poorly reviewed. If Magpul made an SKS stock, I'd be all over that.

Maybe it's a dumb idea but the SKS always striked me as a cool gun.

[Casual Friday]

Any thoughts on modernizing an SKS? I'm not sure why I want one, but I have for a while. I don't care for wood on guns and the polymer stocks that are available seem kind of cheap and are poorly reviewed. If Magpul made an SKS stock, I'd be all over that.

Maybe it's a dumb idea but the SKS always striked me as a cool gun.

Last time I checked, there were literally no good modernized parts for the SKS. It's all Tapco Bubba Fudd shit. Everyone I know that still has a SKS just runs them stock.

[HCM]

Any thoughts on modernizing an SKS? I'm not sure why I want one, but I have for a while. I don't care for wood on guns and the polymer stocks that are available seem kind of cheap and are poorly reviewed. If Magpul made an SKS stock, I'd be all over that.

Maybe it's a dumb idea but the SKS always striked me as a cool gun.

37604

[Bigghoss]

Any thoughts on modernizing an SKS? I'm not sure why I want one, but I have for a while. I don't care for wood on guns and the polymer stocks that are available seem kind of cheap and are poorly reviewed. If Magpul made an SKS stock, I'd be all over that.

Maybe it's a dumb idea but the SKS always striked me as a cool gun.


Last time I checked, there were literally no good modernized parts for the SKS. It's all Tapco Bubba Fudd shit. Everyone I know that still has a SKS just runs them stock.

Pretty much this. I don't know why there's still so much garbage out there that's trying to make the SKS an AK when even a crappy AK is cheaper and better than an SKS with all that Tapco garbage on it.

Choate makes/made decent stocks and the Canadians have some intresting chassis systems for them since they can still get Norinco stuff up there. But there's no advantage to using an SKS. Get one for fun if you have to scratch that itch but know that it's best to just have it as a range toy.

A Magpul SKS stock would be neat IF SKS's were still being imported and if the safety was different or there was some kind of work around.

[Hizzie]

Finland finally releases the modernized RK62’s.

http://soldiersystems.net/2019/04/30/finnish-defense-force-adopts-rk-62m-rifle/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

[StraitR]

Finally got a chance to install the RS Regulate GKR-10MS today. Getting the hand out further and the thumb up higher is really nice. It was something I took for granted on the AR. I'll be running this in this in the May carbine match with a couple other buddies and their AK's. Should be a hoot.

It was storming outside, so could only get an inside crappy lighting phone pic. Lots of post-processing.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/33899079028_48bb88a6a2_b.jpg

[Keebsley]

The RS Regulate krink handguards are out. Stamped or milled pattern guns. No yugo yet. Soon.

p/BwrxWR6Hen1

I forgot to ask if he ever did snag the Yugo he said was in the process to get a Yugo model out...still waiting for the Yugo...and does it work with an Ultimak top rail?

[Hizzie]

I forgot to ask if he ever did snag the Yugo he said was in the process to get a Yugo model out...still waiting for the Yugo...and does it work with an Ultimak top rail?

So far everything Scot has done has been Ultimak compatible. I know he managed to pick up at least an M85 for prototyping because we talked about how poorly built it was. I may or may not have been shown CAD images of products that may or may not be in the pipeline. :cool:

[MistWolf]

Finland finally releases the modernized RK62’s.

http://soldiersystems.net/2019/04/30/finnish-defense-force-adopts-rk-62m-rifle/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Hmm... I wonder what it would take to clone one...?

[Hizzie]

Hmm... I wonder what it would take to clone one...?

Based on currently available guns as a base.

Milled AK
Front end conversion to FSGB
Cut stock tangs for AR adapter
Tech-Sights
Krebs Safety or Armacon/IPSC Lab tab installed on original
Ronins Grips “Galil” grip for the AK
Not sure what handguard would be the closest

Instead of converting an existing gun you could have one built using a Sharps Bros modernized receiver. I suspect either way will be $2kish.

[StraitR]

Removed the GKR-10MS and installed the heat shield. Should have done it on initial install, but I thought I could live without it. People more experienced than me say otherwise. Today I zeroed the T-2 at 25y, confirmed 5" hight at 100y. Should put me 7" low at 300 according to StrelokPro. We'll find out at the match on Sunday.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47070273984_d6b5a99eec_b.jpg

[Hizzie]

Trying out an ACOG was an expensive gamble for me. Huge improvement over Aimpoint for me due to astigmatism. Only the muzzle brake (gamer/training gun), Magpul mags, RS Regulate Mount and ACOG remain from 2016. I desperately need some range time.

p/ByGKRR5g8cE

[rob_s]

Removed the GKR-10MS and installed the heat shield. Should have done it on initial install, but I thought I could live without it. People more experienced than me say otherwise. Today I zeroed the T-2 at 25y, confirmed 5" hight at 100y. Should put me 7" low at 300 according to StrelokPro. We'll find out at the match on Sunday.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47070273984_d6b5a99eec_b.jpg

Wow, that looks to me to be about the perfect epitomization of the "modern AK". Utilizes products that take inspiration from the AR market without trying to turn the gun into an AR. Mind if I ask what you think the total cost to replicate would be and/or a breakdown of the parts/pieces you've put into it, including the original gun, as it sits in that picture?

[GJM]

The LGS has an Arsenal Sam7K pistol with a SB Tactical, left side folding brace, that is speaking to me. Would an RS-312M mount allow me to mount a micro, and still have the brace reasonably fold, or would an Ultimak or other solution be better?

Other than AK appeal, does it do anything better than a .300 BLK?

[Hizzie]

The LGS has an Arsenal Sam7K pistol with a SB Tactical, left side folding brace, that is speaking to me. Would an RS-312M mount allow me to mount a micro, and still have the brace reasonably fold, or would an Ultimak or other solution be better?

Other than AK appeal, does it do anything better than a .300 BLK?

The new 312 is the correct lower but I’d have to see the folding brace or at least know what parts they used.

The Sig skeleton stock does. The folding SB braces I saw looked similar.

p/BdDGYlBFaKQ

[GJM]

The new 312 is the correct lower but I’d have to see the folding brace or at least know what parts they used.

38629

[Hizzie]

Edited my post above. I’m trying to find top shots of that brace folded to see clearance.

[Hizzie]

Wow, that looks to me to be about the perfect epitomization of the "modern AK". Utilizes products that take inspiration from the AR market without trying to turn the gun into an AR. Mind if I ask what you think the total cost to replicate would be and/or a breakdown of the parts/pieces you've put into it, including the original gun, as it sits in that picture?

Actually the handguard is an adaptation from the Galil ACE.

[StraitR]

Wow, that looks to me to be about the perfect epitomization of the "modern AK". Utilizes products that take inspiration from the AR market without trying to turn the gun into an AR. Mind if I ask what you think the total cost to replicate would be and/or a breakdown of the parts/pieces you've put into it, including the original gun, as it sits in that picture?


Rifle is a SLR-107FR purchased from a PF'er. Not sure what the current market price for new is, but Hizzie could probably speak to that. I'll quote street prices for the parts and pieces, because that's what you see on most websites. Some of the stuff I got cheaper with promo, friend, and sale codes. Here is the breakdown...

Lower Handguard - RS Regulate GKR-10MS - $225
Upper Handguard - Kyber Customs Swiss Grater - Totally aesthetic, not needed - $40
Optic - Micro T-2 2moa - Had this one for a few years, not sure what current street is.
Optic Mount - RS Regulate - AK302M Lower ($137) and AKML Upper ($70) for the Micro - $207
Muzzle device - Definitive Arms Fighter 24 Gen2 - $50
Grip - Magpul MOE AK - $14
Vert Grip - BCM Gunfighter M-lok - $19
Acc - BCM M-lok rail panels - $10
Acc - Arisaka Defense M-Lok QD sling mount - $25
Acc - BFG Vickers padded sling - $50

Roughly $640 for the parts/pieces before any discounts you find, plus optic and rifle of your choice. A buddy of mine runs an MRO on the same mount, and really likes it. I mentioned this earlier, but I chose the rear biased AK302M to place the T-2 closer to my eye for vision reasons. I also wanted to try a 3x mini acog or prism in the future, so the rear made sense for me. Most choose the forward biased AK-301 for red dots.

There are some cheaper options for the lower handguard and optic mount, but both are heavier. I prefer the handling of a lighter carbine, which drove my choices. I've only shot one 2-gun match with it, but there isn't anything I'd change or regret so far. I'll be shooting it again this month.

[HCM]

The LGS has an Arsenal Sam7K pistol with a SB Tactical, left side folding brace, that is speaking to me. Would an RS-312M mount allow me to mount a micro, and still have the brace reasonably fold, or would an Ultimak or other solution be better?

Other than AK appeal, does it do anything better than a .300 BLK?


The new 312 is the correct lower but I’d have to see the folding brace or at least know what parts they used.

The Sig skeleton stock does. The folding SB braces I saw looked similar.

p/BdDGYlBFaKQ


38629

LGS has one of these pistols. The 312M answers one of my questions.

My other question - it appears the Krink break on these is not an actual break and the barrel is extended through what appears to be the break. What is the thought process behind this ?

For suppressor mounting ?

Some advantage when SBR’ing ?

[Hizzie]

LGS has one of these pistols. The 312M answers one of my questions.

My other question - it appears the Krink break on these is not an actual break and the barrel is extended through what appears to be the break. What is the thought process behind this ?

For suppressor mounting ?

Some advantage when SBR’ing ?

Some have fake brakes over extended barrels. Some of the new ones have proper front ends. I think it was for a ban compliance issue to have a non threaded barrel.

[GJM]

Other than “I like AK,” is there any reason to favor the SAM7K pistol in 7.62x39 over .300 BLK in an AR pistol?

[nalesq]

Other than “I like AK,” is there any reason to favor the SAM7K pistol in 7.62x39 over .300 BLK in an AR pistol?

7.62x39mm ammo is a lot less expensive. Of course, that’s only with respect to the el cheapo Russian stuff. Ammo using high quality projectiles (e.g., Federal Fusion bonded) costs essentially the same as equivalent .300 BLK.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[StraitR]

Other than AK appeal, does it do anything better than a .300 BLK?

If in the context of a walk-around mountain gun for bear/critter defense, I'd say no. I'd have to look to confirm, but I'm almost certain the x39 will give up any ballistic advantage out of a SBR/Pistol. The weight of your all-up 300blk AR pistol will be lighter than a similarly configured AK, particularly with a milled receiver. You are likely at an unconscious competence level with the AR safety and manual of arms, if that matters based on the condition in which you carry your long gun. Ammo options for x39 plinking are cheap and plentiful, but 300blk has considerably more quality SD/HD/Hunting options. Lastly, even with the outstanding RS Regulate products, optics mounting on the AR remains much easier across the board, and does not require removal for maintenance. This is not the case for side mounted AK optics.

All that being said, I think it could be made to work if you were so inclined, but I wouldn't call it a better mousetrap.

[GJM]

If in the context of a walk-around mountain gun for bear/critter defense, I'd say no. I'd have to look to confirm, but I'm almost certain the x39 will give up any ballistic advantage out of a SBR/Pistol. The weight of your all-up 300blk AR pistol will be lighter than a similarly configured AK, particularly with a milled receiver. You are likely at an unconscious competence level with the AR safety and manual of arms, if that matters based on the condition in which you carry your long gun. Ammo options for x39 plinking are cheap and plentiful, but 300blk has considerably more quality SD/HD/Hunting options. Lastly, even with the outstanding RS Regulate products, optics mounting on the AR remains much easier across the board, and does not require removal for maintenance. This is not the case for side mounted AK optics.

All that being said, I think it could be made to work if you were so inclined, but I wouldn't call it a better mousetrap.

It was just emotion, as I have been a “Krink” fan for years, and the combination of this model with the brace makes that easy. The .300 AR is better for me in so many ways.

[StraitR]

It was just emotion, as I have been a “Krink” fan for years, and the combination of this model with the brace makes that easy. The .300 AR is better for me in so many ways.

If for passion/emotion, then totally go for it. I'm sure I'm not the only person who would like to see what you come up with.

[Casual Friday]

It was just emotion, as I have been a “Krink” fan for years, and the combination of this model with the brace makes that easy. The .300 AR is better for me in so many ways.

As you already know, an AR does everything better. With that said, I like AKs. My Draco with the Ace folding adapter and SBA3 brace and red dot is just a blast, literally and figuratively, to shoot.

[rob_s]

an AR does everything better.

for me, this is the entire thing to understand about this thread. It's not an "either or" discussion because the other will win every time in my mind. When I started this thread my thought was almost "if there was no such thing as an AR and I was limited to an AK for whatever reason..."

[Hizzie]

for me, this is the entire thing to understand about this thread. It's not an "either or" discussion because the other will win every time in my mind. When I started this thread my thought was almost "if there was no such thing as an AR and I was limited to an AK for whatever reason..."

Just a tool. I don’t think the AR does everything better than the AK. Honestly, the closest I’ll get to owning an AR is the 556 Galil ACE and that’s reslly only because I would like to try my hand at the Tactical Games.

[breakingtime91]

As you already know, an AR does everything better. With that said, I like AKs. My Draco with the Ace folding adapter and SBA3 brace and red dot is just a blast, literally and figuratively, to shoot.

I agree and disagree. For a well trained and dedicated end user, the AR 15 has manipulation advantages. If we’re talking in general? I think the AK is much easier to train less dedicated troops on, is accurate enough, and are stupid easy to keep running. Both have a lot going for them. For whatever reason I love AK rifles, while the AR feels like work.

[Casual Friday]

for me, this is the entire thing to understand about this thread. It's not an "either or" discussion because the other will win every time in my mind. When I started this thread my thought was almost "if there was no such thing as an AR and I was limited to an AK for whatever reason..."

If Russian Thanos snapped his fingers and all the AR's disappeared, I'd have no problem using my WASR, SLR107, or the 14.5" that I built. Even the Draco would be fine with me, the recoil from the shorter barrel is hardly noticeable but it is louder.


I agree and disagree. For a well trained and dedicated end user, the AR 15 has manipulation advantages. If we’re talking in general? I think the AK is much easier to train less dedicated troops on, is accurate enough, and are stupid easy to keep running. Both have a lot going for them. For whatever reason I love AK rifles, while the AR feels like work.

Yes I can see that. It was certainly designed to be used by toothless, malnourished conscripts and the design continues to be the best option for equipping 12 year old soldiers in war torn African and Middle East countries where the guns will see zero maintenance.

A salty AK was my first "fightin" rifle back in 1998 after I graduated high school. I got the rifle, a bunch of 30 round mags, and a couple cases of ammo from a family friend for $400. I got married and bought land and put a house on it at 22, and that cheap ammo kept me shooting through my poor years. I started dabbling with AR's around 2005 or 2006 after the AWB expired in 04 and they were more readily available and not so high priced. I still love AK's and will probably never be without one, but running an AR for me is just much more practical.

[nalesq]

The disappearance of inexpensive but decent AKs and the appearance of .300 BLK has made the AK less attractive in principle than it once was to me.

All the same, I’m glad I already own a couple. I enjoy shooting AKs, because they are cool and fun. It’s particularly rewarding to shoot them exclusively (in terms of what rifle shooting I do - obviously handguns are my overwhelming priority as a civilian) for an extended period of time, and eventually be able to outshoot many of my AR-only buddies.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[StraitR]

If I had to choose only one, I'd stay with the AR. If the AR went away for whatever reason, I'd lose no sleep from having to use an AK. It's just flat out more fun for me currently. The $200 per 1000rds tends to spur my enthusiasm as well. Still waiting on match scores from May, but other than slower reloads, nothing struck me as "harder" than running an AR in other matches. Accuracy was fine (4 for 4 at 200y, 3 for 3 at 300y), speed modulation felt the same so recoil wasn't a factor (Fighter 24 brake?), and overall comfort was good. Nothing felt out of place or difficult because it wasn't an AR. And I like the big holes.

I think people, myself included, gravitate to the AK because it's cheap to shoot, different than the AR, and contrarian.

ETA: At this point, quality AK's are expensive due to limited availability, particularly compared to current quality AR prices. You also can't just buy a few pieces here and there, then knock in a couple pins to "build" one. The AK seems to be as popular as ever, but I think the market would explode if not for the higher prices and limited availability of good import rifles. Additionally, quality imports are being banned more and more. Domestics, if not from custom or semi-custom builders, aren't quite there yet when it comes to quality. Kit prices are up, and the best kits from the most desirable countries have all but dried up. As it stands, it's either a Bulgarian Arsenal or WASR if you're looking for new, and the Arsenals are trickled out with certain models gone for years before you see them again. Rumor is this is how Arsenal/K-Var keeps their prices up. Anyway, I took my finger off the AK market pulse for about seven years, only learning of i's current state after recently acquiring mine. With that in mind, I'd say if you're seriously considering jumping into the AK game, now is the time if you want a good quality import. I can't see them getting any cheaper and/or more available. Or, start saving your pennies (at least 160,000 of them) and buy a custom.

[Tensaw]

The disappearance of inexpensive but decent AKs and the appearance of .300 BLK has made the AK less attractive in principle than it once was to me.

This. Still own three AK's, well, four if you count the Yugo RPK that I can't quite remember why I had to have that thing. But it was the advent of a legit .30 caliber round through the AR that kinda killed the AK for me. Now, if we could just get those .300 BLK rounds into the 5.56 price range....

Uggg! Mongo like big boolits. ugg!

[Hizzie]

I AK by choice because I enjoy them. I shoot them well. If I had no choice to AR or Galil or FAL or Garand I would put in the effort to learn the tool and then rock it.

[JSGlock34]

My other question - it appears the Krink break on these is not an actual break and the barrel is extended through what appears to be the break. What is the thought process behind this ?

For suppressor mounting ?

Some advantage when SBR’ing ?

My understanding of the fake brake was to provide the appearance of a modern AK104 while still meeting the 16" barrel requirement. The AK104 gas block looks odd with a 16" barrel without a brake, and from an aesthetic standpoint, the fake brake is only about 2" longer than the real one, so it gets you very close to the appearance of a 104 while still remaining NFA compliant.

However, the threads for the brake are in the proper place on the barrel, so if you submit a Form 1, it is a comparatively easy SBR procedure...unscrew fake brake, cut barrel to 12", screw on real brake.

Here's the procedure on a SLR-104UR (an even shorter configuration, but the execution is the same).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNqZKoPqHBk

[HCM]

My understanding of the fake brake was to provide the appearance of a modern AK104 while still meeting the 16" barrel requirement. The AK104 gas block looks odd with a 16" barrel without a brake, and from an aesthetic standpoint, the fake brake is only about 2" longer than the real one, so it gets you very close to the appearance of a 104 while still remaining NFA compliant.

However, the threads for the brake are in the proper place on the barrel, so if you submit a Form 1, it is a comparatively easy SBR procedure...unscrew fake brake, cut barrel to 12", screw on real brake.

Here's the procedure on a SLR-104UR (an even shorter configuration, but the execution is the same).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNqZKoPqHBk

I understand it on the rifles.

I’m asking about why they have it on the Sam7 Pistol, since it is a pistol and doesn’t need to meet a 16” barrel length.

[rob_s]

I spent a year shooting an AK exclusively in multiple classes and monthly carbine matches. I enjoyed beating most, if not all, of the field while they’d shot tricked out ARs and I shot a mostly stock AK. I can’t say that, other than starting on safe and learning to swipe it off quickly, and the reload mentioned above, I can point to any one thing that made it worse, but there were dozens of little small issues over the course of that year that both made me appreciate the AK but also want to get back to the AR.

But, as one of the other posters mentioned, the initial attraction was alway cost, and that seems to have largely gone away these days.

[Casual Friday]

I have the Attero Bravo on my Draco and a WASR. It's tight as Hizzie said, but once you do it a couple times it's a piece of cake. I've had no problems with it holding zero on newer production guns like the two I have them on, but when I installed one on my old beat up parts kit gun that I built, not only does it sit so low that the dust cover can't be reinstalled without removing the set screw on the mount, but there is enough of a gap in the rear sight tower between the sides and the mount for it to move around and not hold zero. I've heard of people having that issue and threading the hole in the mount and using a screw instead of the roll pin, but it wasn't worth it to me. That is a testament to the wild tolerances of old country cold war era combloc guns and not a Attero issue. I went back to an Ultimak on that gun.

The Attero Bravo is my preferred way to mount a red dot on an AK these days and I was glad to see Khyber Customs become a dealer. Getting one directly from Attero used to be kind of a PITA, comms weren't great, but it was a young guy and his Dad and I think they were doing as best as they could. Now just having to focus on production, with KC distributing them, it's much easier to get ahold of one.

Update on the Attero Bravo. I decided to go put some rounds through my Draco yesterday. I also had 3 muzzle devices that I wanted to try out back to back. First few hits at 50 were on steel, first 3 shots at 100 were not. Not thinking much about it, I put a few rounds at the target at 50 and missed with 2 of the 3. That morning, I'd read on another forum about someone having a wandering zero with their fairly new Primary Arms advanced micro dot so I thought that was the problem. I turned the optic off and was just gonna kick it old school with irons for the day, and I was having the same problem, shots everywhere. Upon further inspection, the once rock solid Attero Bravo, which has the rear sight built into the mount, that had held zero for a couple thousand rounds, now had significant play in it at the roll pin. I could move it back and forth at ease. Over time, the steel roll pin had wallered out the hole in the aluminum mount. Other people have had this issue.

I went into Macgyver mode. I had a hammer in my truck and some roll pin punches in my range bag so I removed the mount. I had some keymod hardware in there, so I stole the screw out of it and reinstalled the Bravo with the set screw versus the roll pin. It self tapped into the aluminum fairly easily. After a rough rezero of the optic, I was back in business. I was unable to move the mount by hand with the set screw and it stayed zeroed for the rest of the day. Once home, I applied some blue Loctite to both screws and will go back hopefully next week and get a good zero on it. If it gets sloppy again and won't hold zero, I'm gonna ditch the Attero Bravo and put an Ultimak on this thing and drive on. I'm going to do the same thing to the Bravo mount on my WASR as a preventative measure.
38825
38826

[StraitR]

That was very "AK" of you. Well done.

[Casual Friday]

That was very "AK" of you. Well done.

Thanks. The tailgate of my pickup on a sunny and warm Western WA spring day, 15 miles up a logging road in the middle of nowhere is probably much better working conditions than the original AK builders had to work with. :D

[Hizzie]

Following the trend with AR grips getting more vertical, Echo93 released their 85 grip. I have a Russian Red laminate on the way for testing.

p/BzGakGCjeTY

[Hizzie]

No fancy pics but comparison of all the grips in my parts bin to the new Echo93 85 Grip.

p/BzOoyWMAggl

[Bigghoss]

No fancy pics but comparison of all the grips in my parts bin to the new Echo93 85 Grip.

p/BzOoyWMAggl

If I ever get an underfolder I'll probably grab one of those.

[Hizzie]

If I ever get an underfolder I'll probably grab one of those.

Funny you mention UF. Atlantic just got in another lot of WASRUF’s.

[Hizzie]

I really like the angle. It feels more comfortable during presentations. I can see this causing less hand fatigue over the course of a day. My only complaint is the lack of texture to the grip. I hope they do a polymer or G10 version with aggressive texture.

p/BzQinKrANE4

p/BzSvpj6Ahl1

[Bigghoss]

Funny you mention UF. Atlantic just got in another lot of WASRUF’s.

You're a bad man.

I keep telling myself I'm going to get all the guns I have setup how I want them before I buy any more. That's what I tell myself. I'm making progress. If I find myself being tempted to buy something I spend that amount of money on parts for the current project. Funny enough that current project is an AK. The next one will probably one of the AK's also. When that's all done my next AK will probably be a Draco. Then again I want a UF to leave stock so it wouldn't be a project.

[rob_s]

You're a bad man.

I keep telling myself I'm going to get all the guns I have setup how I want them before I buy any more. That's what I tell myself. I'm making progress. If I find myself being tempted to buy something I spend that amount of money on parts for the current project. Funny enough that current project is an AK. The next one will probably one of the AK's also. When that's all done my next AK will probably be a Draco. Then again I want a UF to leave stock so it wouldn't be a project.

Funny you say that...

I was digging around due to the new practical rifle thread, as reminded that the CZ527 comes in 7.62x39, and then thought "oh, if I got one of those then I could share ammo with that AK I keep meaning to buy because of the AK thread". :cool:

[Grey]

Don't need an AK, but want an AK... Is Arsenal still the basic go to?

[Hizzie]

Don't need an AK, but want an AK... Is Arsenal still the basic go to?

Pretty much. Paint sucks ass but otherwise pretty much GTG. The Rommy guns have improved too.

[Hizzie]

Funny you say that...

I was digging around due to the new practical rifle thread, as reminded that the CZ527 comes in 7.62x39, and then thought "oh, if I got one of those then I could share ammo with that AK I keep meaning to buy because of the AK thread". :cool:

But it has that dyslexic safety that’s backwards. Ultimately why I went Ruger for my big bore - so my trainer and boomer both operate the same. Otherwise I would’ve been tickled with a 458 holding 5 down.

[Grey]

Pretty much. Paint sucks ass but otherwise pretty much GTG. The Rommy guns have improved too.

Damn, Arsenals seem to be outta stock everywhere unless I want a K model.

[rob_s]

But it has that dyslexic safety that’s backwards. Ultimately why I went Ruger for my big bore - so my trainer and boomer both operate the same. Otherwise I would’ve been tickled with a 458 holding 5 down.

makes for an interesting thought experiment, but my criteria is completely different. I've been shooting long enough, but also been out of it long enough, to find that it really doesn't matter what gun I pick up when it comes to things like switches, levers, ergos, etc. I took up sporting clays recently and have had next to zero issues with manipulations on a variety of guns. Your brain just get accustomed to things, and there just aren't that many variables (push on the thing this way, if it doesn't move then push on it that way and it probably will), that you figure it out pretty damn quick.

That said, my life situation (kids, wife, travel time to range, change in perspective re: "survival") has me using a completely different set of criteria than I used to. First, if I can't buy exactly what I want, then I just won't buy. really, that's criteria about 1-90 out of 100. then comes compatibility with other systems/products, reduction in ammo storage, battery type (I'm literally choosing my impending PCC optic based solely on battery type first, then everything else, because I can't deal with weird batteries anymore), etc.

All of that to say, if I can't buy exactly the AK I want with the features I want (or readily available with minimal fiddle-fart) for the price I want, it'll just remain a thought experiment (albeit one I greatly enjoy). If I can get over the lack of a threaded barrel, and the caliber, and the 527 pushes me that much closer to getting over some internal resistance to an AK too. In a weird way, the shortcomings of both guns can be overcome by some shared parameters like caliber. Especially since I still have ammo cans full of 7.62x39 out in my workshop.

[Hizzie]

Damn, Arsenals seem to be outta stock everywhere unless I want a K model.

Atlantic has the DIY kits in stock. Gun minus furniture and muzzle device.

[Grey]

Atlantic has the DIY kits in stock. Gun minus furniture and muzzle device.Damn must be blind, I dont see any arsenal diy kits.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Hizzie]

Damn must be blind, I dont see any arsenal diy kits.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

No Arsenal just Rommy.

[rob_s]

Atlantic has the DIY kits in stock. Gun minus furniture and muzzle device.


Damn must be blind, I dont see any arsenal diy kits.


No Arsenal just Rommy.

that's pretty cool, I didn't know that was a thing.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-47-rifle-m10-762-diy

[Bigghoss]

I've been very tempted by those DIYs. The complete guns usually come with shit furniture anyway plus all the other stuff I like to change. Really makes sense to just buy something that doesn't come with any of it and you can add the stuff you want to it.

But for now I'm mainly about the pistol versions. My next AK I buy will probably be a Draco pistol.

[rob_s]

that's pretty cool, I didn't know that was a thing.

https://www.atlanticfirearms.com/products/ak-47-rifle-m10-762-diy

Why would be the handguard of choice to add to one of these?

Can they take a side-folding stock?

[Hizzie]

Why would be the handguard of choice to add to one of these?

Can they take a side-folding stock?

HG? Pretty much any standard pattern AKM handguard you’d want. I’m biased but the RS Regulate GKR-10MS is pretty awesome. Magpul or KVar poly are both good options too. All depends on the direction you want to go.

Drop in stock options:

CNC Warrior https://www.cncwarrior.com/category-s/1979.htm
Rommy wire folder
Polish wire folder
Egyptian crutch folder
Polish Beryl folder

You can also chop the tang and use an internal receiver block. Sky is the limit with ACE compatible or 1913 compatible options.

[Grey]

So that Romanian diy kit is good to go? I have little to no AK knowledge other than I'm infatuated with the 7.62x39 cartridge.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[rob_s]

HG? Pretty much any standard pattern AKM handguard you’d want. I’m biased but the RS Regulate GKR-10MS is pretty awesome. Magpul or KVar poly are both good options too. All depends on the direction you want to go.
gotcha. with that front sight at the gas block like that I wasn't sure if that RS Regulate would work or not.

[Hizzie]

gotcha. with that front sight at the gas block like that I wasn't sure if that RS Regulate would work or not.


I did a mock up a while back. It’s tight.

p/BrOAgzYHZdB

[Casual Friday]

Took my 14.5" home build for a little exercise innawoods today. My phone must have some sort of filter like the white girls on Instagram use, it's nowhere near as clean and pristine up close. I have other AKs, but this is hands down my favorite to run. I'm gonna go back to the B5 Bravo stock, the cheek weld is much better than the CTR.

Romanian G parts kit
Nodak Spud receiver
OG US Palm grip
ALG trigger
KNS adjustable piston(it was still overgassed af even after cutting 2" off the barrel)
Rifle Dynamics stock adapter
Primary Arms advanced micro dot on the Ultimak
Meridian Defense BD3 muzzle brake
Venom Tactical FSB/GB combo
Bulgarian Circle 10 waffle mag
39695

[Hizzie]

First we have the new RS Regulate AK-353M lower for the VEPR. It is an improved interface and is compatible with that goofy Molot factory folding mechanism.

p/B0_FFfOgdLh

We have the improved Definitive Arms 24mm Fighter Brake.

p/B06AoX0ARdC

Finally the now even lighter 14mm Ti Fighter Brake weighing in at 20 grams.

p/B08VzMNAfle

[StraitR]

Great stuff Hizzie. I'm glad to see it bumped.

Missed the 2-gun match last month (vacation), and will likely miss this month (effing hot), so I've been really itching to get some more AK trigger time.

Love my Gen2 Fighter 24 brake, for both aesthetics and function.

[helothar]

Anyone have experience with Magpul 5.45 magazines? I got a couple and they are a little too tight, I have to smack the mag release with a magazine to get them out. Is this something that will work itself out with some reps or do I need to take a file to the rear lugs?

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[JRB]

Anyone have experience with Magpul 5.45 magazines? I got a couple and they are a little too tight, I have to smack the mag release with a magazine to get them out. Is this something that will work itself out with some reps or do I need to take a file to the rear lugs?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

On my Bulgarian kit build AK-74 and my Arsenal SLR-104UR, I encountered the same tight fitment and I just worked the mags in and out repeatedly until they loosened up nicely.

I only got one range trip in with the AK-74 build and the Magpul mags, maybe 120-150 rounds total divided between three different Magpul mags, but I encountered no issues. I am excited to get home and try the AC-Unity mags I bought from RTGparts recently, though. I am a fan of Magpul but I do prefer metal locking lugs on AK mags.

RTG currently has those 30rnd window AK74 mags for $13.95 each, and they say 45rnd ones are on the way.

I've been tempted to buy one or two of those Pufgun 60 round mags for giggles, or one of those KCI 95rnd drums. Does anyone here have any experience with those?

[Casual Friday]

Anyone have experience with Magpul 5.45 magazines? I got a couple and they are a little too tight, I have to smack the mag release with a magazine to get them out. Is this something that will work itself out with some reps or do I need to take a file to the rear lugs?

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

If it's only those mags that are a problem, you could do as my homie JRB said and work them in and out until the plastic lug wears down a bit. Or if they're as tight as you say and need to be strongly encouraged to come out, you could take a smooth cut file and make one light pass at a time on the rear lug of the magazine until they lock in tight with no wobble but can be removed by working the mag release with a thumb or finger. I can't stress this enough though, one light pass at a time.

If all the mags you have are that tight, that's an out of spec magazine catch and the remedy to that is one light pass at a time with the file as well. One light pass.

[helothar]

Thanks for the advice guys, I think I'll try to file the rear lugs. I have just encountered this problem with magpuls (although I haven't used any other aftermarket magazines). Molot and izmash mags come out easily

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[awp_101]

The following are steaming piles of turd that borderline on dangerous:

Century RAS47
Century C39
Century C39 V2
Century “American” Draco - any size

Too many guns with bad heat treat coming out of Zastava the past few years. PAP, NPAP, OPAP and M92 all randomly effected. No “safe” date range.

What about the m85 pistols that take AR mags? Same story?

[Hizzie]

What about the m85 pistols that take AR mags? Same story?

The M85 pistols and M90 rifles oddly did not seem to be affected by the heat treat issues, just poor QC. The magwells are just plastic.

[awp_101]

The M85 pistols and M90 rifles oddly did not seem to be affected by the heat treat issues, just poor QC. The magwells are just plastic.
Thanks! LGS has 2 on consignment for $685/ea and I thought one might be a good way to get my AK back on without having to stock up again on 7.62x39 and mags.

[fatdog]

In the FWIW category. I sold out the AK platforms I owned back in 2012 when prices went through the roof. I never considered them serious use rifles in my case, just range toys. First of the year I picked up one of the new gen 3 PSA Forged AK's because I simply missed having one to play with.

I think PSA might finally have a decent gun, but I am just a sample of one. To date about 1500 rounds down range, nary a bobble of any sort, and I find it a lot more accurate than any of the low end 7.62x39 guns I owned before (WASR 10's, a Maadi, a Norinco) with me shooting the irons from the bench. I guess time will tell on the durability front but so far it is quite a lot of fun and is not showing any unusual wear or deformation internally. Fit and finish seems much better than the low end guns I had previously owned. At some point this Spring I am going to put a side mount scope on the thing and see what it will really do accuracy wise.

[rob_s]

fatdog can you post a link to the specific model you bought?

[Mntneer357]

While we're talkin' 'bout PSA AKs, and I too am curious about Fatdog's rifle, does anyone have any updates on the newly released PSA AK-E (enhanced?)?
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ake-m4-moe-rifle-black.html

I'm watching this thread and doing my best to pick up the knowledge that gets dropped.

[fatdog]

fatdog can you post a link to the specific model you bought? (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-classic-polymer-rifle-plum-5165450213.html)

linked, it was the regular plum stock "GF3" classic....I will also say it has a decent out of the box trigger for a non-high end AK as well, I am now sorely tempted by their side folders...no real reason except "because" and I always wanted one...it too would be a range toy and general amusement park ride....just something else for the democrats to come confiscate some day....

[HCM]

linked, it was the regular plum stock "GF3" classic....I will also say it has a decent out of the box trigger for a non-high end AK as well, I am now sorely tempted by their side folders...no real reason except "because" and I always wanted one...it too would be a range toy and general amusement park ride....just something else for the democrats to come confiscate some day....

That's not very Wolverines ! of you.

[rob_s]

Man I’m really tempted by this guy!

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-fde.html

49470

[Vandal320]

I really haven't even been paying any attention to PSA, then I watched Rob's AK-E video. Like what I saw. Now I have been in AK obsession mode for over a month. I might buy one of the PSA G3 AK's just to become familiar with the platform. Arsenal is still the way to go for a quality top notch AK? Other than the finish issues?

I spent a couple of nights checking out Atlantic Firearms. I really like some of the WBP Polish models. Are the Polish AK's any good? Or is it you get what you get Komrade!:D

[frozentundra]

While we're talkin' 'bout PSA AKs, and I too am curious about Fatdog's rifle, does anyone have any updates on the newly released PSA AK-E (enhanced?)?
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ake-m4-moe-rifle-black.html

I'm watching this thread and doing my best to pick up the knowledge that gets dropped.


Rob from AK Operators Union just released a 3000 round update for his PSA AKE test. Summery: Gun is running 100%, headspace is good, is holding under 1.5 MOA @ 400 yards with Barnaul.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kCiOFqskwI&t=1s

[Sanch]

Are there any pistol AK in 762x39 with braces that are worth considering compared to a AR in maybe idk 300 black out as the comparison ballistically?

[Suvorov]

Rob from AK Operators Union just released a 3000 round update for his PSA AKE test. Summery: Gun is running 100%, headspace is good, is holding under 1.5 MOA @ 400 yards with Barnaul.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kCiOFqskwI&t=1s

I’ve been very happy with the Barnaul fodder I have shot. No doubt that FN is capable of making a good barrel either.

[entropy]

Are there any pistol AK in 762x39 with braces that are worth considering compared to a AR in maybe idk 300 black out as the comparison ballistically?

I picked up a Palmetto “Krink clone” a few months back. 7.62x39. I’ve run about 800rds thru it to date with no issues. Broke down and cleaned it after the last shoot, as my OCD got the best of me. I should have let it run. It has a decent trigger, is plenty accurate, and the folding brace seems to be holding up well too. It sure is a handy little thing.

49537

[rd62]

Just saw where PSA is adding Circle 10 style mags to their AK offerings. Visually they look the same to my eye save the PSA logo where the Circle 10 would be. They claim steel internal reinforcements, etc. Interested to see the reliability of these and long term reliability of the rifles. If they hold up I may have to grab one to get back into AKs.

[rob_s]

Man I’m really tempted by this guy!

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-fde.html

49470

Aaaaaaand I farted around too long and now it’s out of stock. I blame you fuckers!

[Wake27]

I’m back and forth on keeping my SAM7R. I like it but I never shoot it, and seems like the money I could get for it could go towards some things that’d get much more use. Wish the market was stronger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

Aaaaaaand I farted around too long and now it’s out of stock. I blame you fuckers!

They cycle through models and flavors often. Hit the "Notify Me" button and jump when you get the email. In the meantime, you can start acquiring other bits (optic mounts, optic, mags, etc). Looking forward to your AK participation.

ETA: Rob, have you considered the Enhanced version? That FN CHF chrome lined barrel might be worth the difference alone. It sure would suppress easily, and with maximum confidence, if that matters to you.


*** General thread content....

Next weekend I'll be running an AR, but my local 2-gun match in April is scheduled to be "AK month", which they do about once a year. Not sure what they do differently because I missed last year, but I'm really looking forward to it.

I've removed the outstanding RS Regulate rail from my 107FR and went back to wood, just to make it "more AK" again. Returned to the configuration below. I've only shot matches with the RS rail, which makes it very shootable, so we'll see how it goes next month.

https://live.staticflickr.com/7872/32576106937_987990f3ac_c.jpg

[Medusa]

I’ve been missing my slr-95 sold many years ago. I confess I am tempted by these PSA aks. I just don’t need one, although my total current lack of long guns suggests a “need”.

[HCM]

I’ve been missing my slr-95 sold many years ago. I confess I am tempted by these PSA aks. I just don’t need one, although my total current lack of long guns suggests a “need”.

If you don’t have an AK how could you know if you had a Good Day?


https://youtu.be/h4UqMyldS7Q

[Bigghoss]

If you don’t have an AK how could you know if you had a Good Day?


https://youtu.be/h4UqMyldS7Q

This is where Ice Cube and I disagree, not using your AK does not make your day better. (That and a breakfast with no hog.)

[StraitR]

Looks like Palmetto State Armory is now offering a "Cheese Grater". Options are good.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-custom-ak-47-cheese-grater-upper-handguard1.html

[Joe in PNG]

I picked up a Palmetto “Krink clone” a few months back. 7.62x39. I’ve run about 800rds thru it to date with no issues. Broke down and cleaned it after the last shoot, as my OCD got the best of me. I should have let it run. It has a decent trigger, is plenty accurate, and the folding brace seems to be holding up well too. It sure is a handy little thing.

49537

Dang, that's hawt!

[rob_s]

They cycle through models and flavors often. Hit the "Notify Me" button and jump when you get the email. In the meantime, you can start acquiring other bits (optic mounts, optic, mags, etc). Looking forward to your AK participation.

ETA: Rob, have you considered the Enhanced version? That FN CHF chrome lined barrel might be worth the difference alone. It sure would suppress easily, and with maximum confidence, if that matters to you.

I’m not familiar with the enhanced models. Do you have a link to one? Searching for “psak enhanced” on their site returned some confusing results.

As to the original model I was looking at, it turns out they offer a bunch of colors, and as you mentioned they go in and out of stock frequently.

49714

[FPS]

They are the AK-E models - https://palmettostatearmory.com/ak-47/ak-e.html

[Vandal320]

PSA has a "MOEkov" in black still in stock for $929.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak-e-moekov-rifle-black.html

[Mike C]

StraitR, sweet looking long gun. You still owe us a thread on that tool kit, (please).

[HCM]

The current state of the AK - February 2020:


https://youtu.be/nL8hSocsB_U

[Bigghoss]

PSA has a "MOEkov" in black still in stock for $929.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak-e-moekov-rifle-black.html

I don't know if the PSA is a better gun but I got an RH10 with the same furniture for $600 on GB.

[Vandal320]

I don't know if the PSA is a better gun but I got an RH10 with the same furniture for $600 on GB.

This is info straight from the link I posted.


The PSA AK-E was designed from the ground up to create a new standard in AK-47 rifles, utilizing all new enhanced precision manufactured parts. Thoroughly tested in development, we tortured tested to 10,000 rounds to ensure a quality product. Not to be satisfied with just a good AK-47, we kept improving and now are proud to announce our Palmetto State Armory AK-E.

The barrel is a proprietary blend of hammer-forged chrome-moly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as "Machine Gun Steel" by virtue of its use in FN's M249 and M240 weapons. The hammer forging process work hardens the steel, making it more durable. This 16" barrel is magnetic particle inspected, to ensure quality and dependability and is pressed into a hammer forged 4340 aircraft quality front trunnion to ensure the longevity AK-47's are known for. The AK-E hardened steel 1mm receiver features an ALG AK Trigger (AKT) and a side rail mount. The nickel boron bolt carrier is engraved with "AKE" to designate the AK-47 Enhanced Model. The rifle is finished with an AK-E tank brake, Enhanced Extended Safety Lever, Magpul polymer handguard, Magpul Zhukov side-folding stock, and Magpul AK-47 polymer grip; Rifle ships with 30 round Magpul magazine (where allowed by law).

Cold Hammer Forged Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel Barrel; Chrome Lined
AK-E Stamped Steel Receiver
Blended Hammer Forged 4340 Aircraft Quality Front Trunnion
Hammer Forged Bolt; Nickel Boron Coated
Hammer Forged Carrier; Nickel Boron Coated
Side Scope Mount
7.62x39 Caliber
1 in 9.5" Twist
Std. 800-yard Rear Sight Leaf
Enhanced Extended Safety Lever
Magpul AK-47 Upper/Lower Handguard, Black
Magpul AK-47 Polymer Grip, Black
Magpul Zhukov Side Folding Stock, Black
Magpul 30 round magazine (1); Where allowed by law

No idea about the RH10. Is the RH10 the new WASR?

[Vandal320]

PSA has a "MOEkov" in black still in stock for $929.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ak-e-moekov-rifle-black.html
That didn't last long. Out of stock...

[rob_s]

NM posting too early.

[Bigghoss]

This is info straight from the link I posted.



No idea about the RH10. Is the RH10 the new WASR?

As far as I know it's basically a WASR-10 with a combo gas block/front sight. Out of the box the action felt a lot smoother than the 4 WASRs I got used.

[kwb377]

This thread reminds me I need to pull the 'ole AK out and show it some love more often.

This was the state of my collection about 10 years ago...

https://pbase.com/kwb377/image/89672875.jpg


But a divorce will tend to pare down a gun collection and I wound up with just one...it's a mutt Romanian/Bulgarian combo. Started out as a AK104 sorta clone, but I've recently "modernized it. I also need to get off my ass and SBR it to in order install a shorter muzzlebrake.

https://pbase.com/kwb377/image/92721485.jpg

https://pbase.com/kwb377/image/169542207.jpg

[StraitR]

@StraitR (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=3620), sweet looking long gun. You still owe us a thread on that tool kit, (please).

Thank you.

You are correct, I totally forgot. Apologies. I’ll try to get one up this weekend.

[Medusa]

Found AK Operator’s Union 47-74 on YouTube. Another rabbit hole. Pretty helpful for me to get more up to speed on what’s out there now.

[rob_s]

Rob, have you considered the Enhanced version? That FN CHF chrome lined barrel might be worth the difference alone. It sure would suppress easily, and with maximum confidence, if that matters to you.


I’m not familiar with the enhanced models. Do you have a link to one? Searching for “psak enhanced” on their site returned some confusing results.


They are the AK-E models - https://palmettostatearmory.com/ak-47/ak-e.html


That didn't last long. Out of stock...

So I'm intrigued by these, but I think I'm about to order the standard
PSAK-47 GF3 FORGED ZHUKOV RIFLE, GRAY (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-gray.html)

because

it's available and the "enhanced" isn't
it's $240 less expensive
I'm not sure how much I'll really shoot the thing (this is largely a "want" and a "pre-election panic" purchase)



My question is, am I missing anything or buying into any potential issues with the "Zhukov"? Does the furniture actually suck, is the folding stock a pain to use, does the longer handguard add weight for no reason... anything else I might be missing?

Also, what else should I get while I'm getting. Pretty sure I have ammo and mags from the last AK I owned. Any particular "new" mags that I should get while I'm getting? is there a partilcar P-mag that's good/bad? One that's "serious" and one that's "training"?

49894

[Wake27]

So I'm intrigued by these, but I think I'm about to order the standard
PSAK-47 GF3 FORGED ZHUKOV RIFLE, GRAY (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-gray.html)

because

it's available and the "enhanced" isn't
it's $240 less expensive
I'm not sure how much I'll really shoot the thing (this is largely a "want" and a "pre-election panic" purchase)



My question is, am I missing anything or buying into any potential issues with the "Zhukov"? Does the furniture actually suck, is the folding stock a pain to use, does the longer handguard add weight for no reason... anything else I might be missing?

Also, what else should I get while I'm getting. Pretty sure I have ammo and mags from the last AK I owned. Any particular "new" mags that I should get while I'm getting? is there a partilcar P-mag that's good/bad? One that's "serious" and one that's "training"?

49894

I always thought people liked the Magpul furniture. A lot of people converted Scorpions to use that stock. As far as mags, most AK nuts think the standard MOE mag is heresy because it doesn’t have metal lips, so that’d be your training one if it concerns you. They do have a metal reinforced version I believe and Circle 10s are kind of the gold standard I think, though expensive and harder to find.

I’m still debating selling my arsenal, especially now that I just bought a lot of other ammo, but I’d want a lot more for it. If you’re interested in a more “proven” model, let me know. Even if not the gun, I have a bunch of AK PMAGs that I can part with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StraitR]

So I'm intrigued by these, but I think I'm about to order the standard
PSAK-47 GF3 FORGED ZHUKOV RIFLE, GRAY (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-gray.html)

because

it's available and the "enhanced" isn't
it's $240 less expensive
I'm not sure how much I'll really shoot the thing (this is largely a "want" and a "pre-election panic" purchase)



My question is, am I missing anything or buying into any potential issues with the "Zhukov"? Does the furniture actually suck, is the folding stock a pain to use, does the longer handguard add weight for no reason... anything else I might be missing?

Also, what else should I get while I'm getting. Pretty sure I have ammo and mags from the last AK I owned. Any particular "new" mags that I should get while I'm getting? is there a partilcar P-mag that's good/bad? One that's "serious" and one that's "training"?

The biggest draw to the AK-E (for me) is the FN CHF barrel for the purpose and ease of using a suppressor. If that's not a thing for you, I don't know that price difference is justifiable for your purposes.

I have no experience with magpul furniture, but the friends I have that use both the stock and handguards seem to be pleased. I think if you're used to long handguards on AR's that you would really enjoy the longer Zhukov handguard.

I believe Hizzie has had solid performance from both Gen 1 and 3 AK Pmags, contrary to what a lot of the internet says about the Gen 1 mags. I've not tried any, and use a combination of mil-surplus, Chinese flat-backs (my favorite), and Circle 10.

[fatdog]

I had to stock up on AK mags when I got my PSA. I chose Bulgarian polymer mags with the steel inserts in the lips and some all steel Bulgarians...got them at CDNN, they all run flawlessly. Picked up a few of the KCI 20 round mags (Korean) and those run perfectly as well, they remind me of the old Hungarian 20 round steel mags that were so good. The one and only malfunction I have had with the gun was with the magpul mag that came with it...but that was only one feed hangup. Never happened again. I tried a friend's Croatian steel mag and it would not lock in for me.

[rob_s]

I had to stock up on AK mags when I got my PSA. I chose Bulgarian polymer mags with the steel inserts in the lips and some all steel Bulgarians...got them at CDNN, they all run flawlessly.

This?
https://www.cdnnsports.com/ak-762x39-30rd-bulgarian-steel-reinforced-lips-mag-28708.html?___SID=U

[fatdog]

This?
https://www.cdnnsports.com/ak-762x39-30rd-bulgarian-steel-reinforced-lips-mag-28708.html?___SID=U

Yes sir, those, have about a dozen of them, some loaded to go to the range tomorrow. I cannot comment on long term durability or battleworthy character of those, but they have worked out just fine as range mags for my PSA range toy AK...never a malfunction yet at about 1700 rounds.

There was one that I had to run about 4 strokes of the file on the back steel edge where it locks, but the rest fit perfectly out of the box.

[Bigghoss]

My question is, am I missing anything or buying into any potential issues with the "Zhukov"? Does the furniture actually suck, is the folding stock a pain to use, does the longer handguard add weight for no reason... anything else I might be missing?

Also, what else should I get while I'm getting. Pretty sure I have ammo and mags from the last AK I owned. Any particular "new" mags that I should get while I'm getting? is there a partilcar P-mag that's good/bad? One that's "serious" and one that's "training"?

49894

I have a couple Zhukov stocks and they're fine. The biggest downside to the Zhukov fore end is it does away with the standard hand guard retainer so if you don't like it there are few options for replacement. But it's a nice handguard so you'll probably like it fine enough.

Magpul makes mags with metal reinforced feed lips but I haven't heard of anyone breaking the non reinforced ones. To my surprise even the Tapco mags I got with an AK seem to be fine.

[TCB]

Does anyone know if the longer Magpul handguard fit onto the PSA-E rifle? Seems like I should own an AK at some point but prefer longer handguards.

[Suvorov]

So I figured I'd post about my experience with the new production Zastava ZPAP.

I picked up a new production ZPAP last fall with the intent of spending the next year or so shooting the AK as my primary long gun and learning the AK platform. This is the 3rd AK pattern rifle I've owned, the other three being a Valmet M76, Arsenal SA-93, and a Romanian SR-1. I got rid of the Romanian as it really was rough and I didn't know enough about AKs at the time to fix its issues (trigger slap, canted front sights, crappy wood). I chose the ZPAP for a couple reasons: 1) It being one of the few European AKs relatively easy to come by in Kalifornia, 2) Questionable quality of American AKs at the time, 3) it had a side rail that would allow me to use optics with it (my Arsenal was converted to a pre-ban non railed configuration), and finally due to it being Serbian and my family connection with Serbia. Finally it's success in passing RobSki's 5000 round test was enough to make me pull the trigger. I was aware of the quality issues with Century's NPAP line and hoped that the internet rumors were correct about them being corrected now that Zastava itself was importing them.

After finally finding one online in Kalifornia configuration I ordered it and had it shipped to my club that has an FFL on site. When it arrived I noticed that the upper handguard was super loose and basically would just rotate. I filled out my paperwork and started my 10 day waiting period. I went home and looked at my Arsenal and determined that the ZPAP probably was missing the upper handguard retaining clip. I contacted Zastava USA and told them about the problem, they wanted me to wait until I took delivery and could get some photos to them before they would act. Not wanting to wait longer than I had to I just ordered a clip on line and it arrived before I was able to take delivery of the gun. Once I got the gun, I determined that it was indeed missing the clip, so I through in the clip and was ready to roll.

The ZPAP is far more elegant that my Romanian gun had been and the sights are straight. It came with a single Magpul 10 round magazine but all of my pre-ban magazines plus the Bosnian and Croatian magazines I was able to get during "freedom week" locked in just fine. Finally got it to the range to zero and everything worked well and as advertised but I was surprised by the "cheek slap" that was far more pronounced than my Arsenal has ever been. Turns out this is a common issue with the M70 based AKs as their stock comb is higher than on most other AKs. There are a few techniques to minimize it but what I found the most useful was getting my nose right up to the rear of the receiver and placing the stock of the rifle more towards my pectoral than in my shoulder pocket. With that the cheek slap was eliminated and recoil quite controllable.

At about the 300 round mark I noticed the trigger started sticking in the forward position which made it harder and harder to squeeze. I suspected that the fire control pins were walking on me. I went home and checked them but had the same issue on the next range trip to the point that the gun was almost impossible to shoot. I took it home and removed the fire control group. What I found is that the metal at the rear of the trigger had been peened by the dis connector to the point that it was catching on the receiver. I re-watched RobSki's videos on the rifle and it seems he had the same or a similar problem. I test fit a spare trigger I had laying around and it had plenty of clearance with the receiver so I carefully filed the peened material away (plus a little extra for good measure which eliminated the faint trigger slap) and reinstalled the fire control group which solved the problem.

Since then I have replaced the "shepherds crook" or "paper clip" FCG pin retaining clip with a plate and have had no issues for 300+ plus rounds. I am now running it with a Midwest Industries Mount that has a Aimpoint PRO mounted on it. I got the mount during their Midwest's Black Friday sale although supposedly the RS mounts are better. Overall the mount seems to hold zero pretty well, but the Aimpoint sits a little higher than I would like. Plans are to get the 30mm optic extension that Midwest makes for the mount which should bring it down some.

All in all it's been an interesting learning curve. Rob's AK Operator Union videos have been really helpful. The ZPAP has been 100% reliable other than the trigger issue and as accurate as I can hope a rifle to be shooting the cheapest Wolf I can find. I have tons of time on AR/M-16 series rifles but not much on the AK. The difference in philosophy behind the two are easily apparent. The AR has an aerospace precision background while the AK has a wartime "Old School" background. Things are just not as straight forward or simple when working on an AK. Based on my time with the rifle I wouldn't steer someone away from buying a ZPAP but the quality control issues I've had mixed with the peculiarities with M70 Yugo pattern AKs would make me suggest taking a close look at other AKs on the market.

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And YES - the grip fin is stupid!

[entropy]

Nice write up. Yes, AKOU is a wealth of information. I’m still running the Palmetto Krink at a fairly steady rate. No issues yet, and all the internals seem to be holding up. I’m still not convinced the dust cover rail will hold zero long term...but so far it is...at least for the distances I’m shooting.

[rob_s]

I think I'm about to order the standard
PSAK-47 GF3 FORGED ZHUKOV RIFLE, GRAY (https://palmettostatearmory.com/psak-47-gf3-forged-zhukov-rifle-gray.html)
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I always thought people liked the Magpul furniture. A lot of people converted Scorpions to use that stock.


The biggest draw to the AK-E (for me) is the FN CHF barrel for the purpose and ease of using a suppressor. If that's not a thing for you, I don't know that price difference is justifiable for your purposes.

I have no experience with magpul furniture, but the friends I have that use both the stock and handguards seem to be pleased. I think if you're used to long handguards on AR's that you would really enjoy the longer Zhukov handguard.


I have a couple Zhukov stocks and they're fine. The biggest downside to the Zhukov fore end is it does away with the standard hand guard retainer so if you don't like it there are few options for replacement. But it's a nice handguard so you'll probably like it fine enough.

I went ahead and ordered the above today.

I do think that I might maybe one day want to have the ability to add a suppressor but not bad enough for a $240 premium plus waiting an indeterminate amount of time.

Turns out I maybe don't have any mags, but do have some limited ammo, so I guess I gotta get a good baker's dozen of mags now, at least.

[rob_s]

Any guidance on what my best bet is for ammo? Just looking for relative range reliability, not too concerned with "effective" (although if there's something here that fits that description, ok). Something in the 1k round case quantity would be good I suppose.

[Suvorov]

Any guidance on what my best bet is for ammo? Just looking for relative range reliability, not too concerned with "effective" (although if there's something here that fits that description, ok). Something in the 1k round case quantity would be good I suppose.

It seems that Barual is making the best steel cases cheap stuff on the market. This comes from several sources including AK Operator Union and the testing Recoil Magazine did a few years back. It can be found under the Barnual name or sold as Bear Ammo. I can confirm that the Brown Bear is surprisingly good in terms of accuracy and no duds in the case I have shot.

I had to buy a case of Wolf recently as being a proletariat in Kalifornia I am far more limited on what I can get. So far it’s been good as well with it and me and my rifle shooting about 4-5 MOA from sandbags.

Link to Recoil review https://www.recoilweb.com/7-62x39-ammo-test-101531.html

100 Yard Zero with Wolf Cheapo 122 grain ammo
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[StraitR]

I went ahead and ordered the above today.

I do think that I might maybe one day want to have the ability to add a suppressor but not bad enough for a $240 premium plus waiting an indeterminate amount of time.

Turns out I maybe don't have any mags, but do have some limited ammo, so I guess I gotta get a good baker's dozen of mags now, at least.

Nice. I'm glad you pulled the trigger and jumped back into the AK game. From what I've read (and seen on YT), the barrels on all PSA AK's have been reliably concentric, so you should have no issues suppressing it.


Any guidance on what my best bet is for ammo? Just looking for relative range reliability, not too concerned with "effective" (although if there's something here that fits that description, ok). Something in the 1k round case quantity would be good I suppose.

I've shot Wolf Military Classic and Brown Bear almost exclusively over the years. That's what I bought first, it worked, so I just kept buying out of habit Between those, and Barnaul, I don't think you can go wrong. Frankly, I'd grab anything cheap at this point. $199 a case, shipped, is generally the price I shop for. On Wednesday, people started buying up ammo in the most common calibers. I haven't looked for 7.62x39, but it will probably start selling quickly if it hasn't already. Gotta have ammo to protect the toilet paper I guess.

[Hizzie]

They brought back 8M3. It’s the only Russian HP that actually acts like a HP consistently. Otherwise Brown/Silver Bear 125gr SP is the other budget option that’s cheap enough to be dual purpose.

[Vandal320]

Rob Ski dropped an 8 almost 9 minute video Titled US made AK-WHY?

https://youtu.be/0ksYPK-jQKo

[fatdog]

Minor update on my standard PSA gen 3 rifle. I got a cheapo side mount pic rail, put a cheap 1-4X non-daylight illuminated Chinese thing out of my big box of scopes on it and tried "what I could see" today. I zero'ed up at 50 yards and it would hold a 2" dot all day long at that distance. I proceeded to the 100 yard range where we have some 8", 6" rifle plates, and a 4" plate. Shooting the Monarch fmj stuff Academy sells from the bench, this thing will hold the 4" plate at that distance except for some called flyers. I should have put it on paper, but it was raining and I decided the steel would have to do instead of dealing with target wilt. The thing might well be a 2-3 moa gun with better ammo and a better shooter pulling the trigger with a better scope and mount.

Anyway, with me shooting, I can definitively say this gun is more accurate than any of the inexpensive ex-commie chrome lined barrel rifles I have owned. I am thinking the guys with FN barrels on their PSA shooting the better ammo are not at all exaggerating about the top end PSA guns being 2 moa accurate. I ran a couple hundred rounds through the Bulgarian poly mags again, nary a bobble.

This thing is quite a lot of fun and will likely get to ride to the range with couple mags nearly every trip this spring and summer just for fun and blastin after the serious shooting is done.

Rob s, I hope you enjoy yours as much.

[Medusa]

You are not making it easy to resist.

[Bigghoss]

Any guidance on what my best bet is for ammo? Just looking for relative range reliability, not too concerned with "effective" (although if there's something here that fits that description, ok). Something in the 1k round case quantity would be good I suppose.

For shooting at the range I have literally never have any problems shooting the cheapest new production steel cased ammo I could fine. Even after it had been sitting around for years and some of it got some light rust spots on it, still went through the gun without a hitch.

[Vandal320]

Rob Ski is saying that Arsenal Bulgaria is shut down due to the Corona Virus. No more imports for now...