So it's good for you to generalize about people being bad for generalizing? This is too meta for me.Originally Posted by tomr
So it's good for you to generalize about people being bad for generalizing? This is too meta for me.
From 1986 to 2010 I was issued, qualified with, or authorized to carry a 1911—even got the POST certified SWAT Academy training for the 1911. I too thought that the 1911 was the way to go for an enhanced accuracy handgun, especially for tactical use. I swore I shot the 1911 faster and more accurately than other pistols.
I was wrong, as noted here: http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=3563#more-3563
It turns out that my basic 9 mm G19 can put 10 rounds in the black of an NRA B8 target at 50 yards if I do my part; likewise the timer has proved I am just as fast with a G19 as I was with my 1911. And I am not alone in discovering this.
An agency can purchase roughly FIVE Glocks or M&P’s for the cost of ONE quality duty ready 1911. Likewise, an agency has to purchase at least TWICE as many magazines for 1911′s as for Glocks or M&P’s. How can an agency justify this additional cost for minimal if any gain to the taxpayers who are footing the bill?
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
Maybe not good, just OK? How do you do those face thingies?So it's good for you to generalize about people being bad for generalizing? This is too meta for me.
Last edited by tomr; 02-04-2015 at 01:30 AM.
Doc, I know. Ive read your stuff. You and I have emailed. I gave you the extra X remember? You shoot your Glock better than I can shoot any thing. And I shoot my Glock about as well as I can shoot my CQB. And as i wrote above I get the other attributes, depending on circumstance one would use in making their choice. Not my point. I really liked my "prosey" approach, "Honey crisp apples to orange juice." That was i hoped, a riff on the old apples to apple thing. A G19 is to Honey Crisp apple as a 1911 is to orange juice. The right comparison I submit is not G19 to 1911. Its G19 to CQB (or insert whatever specific brand, model, caliber you want. It wasn't just you - though I chose to respond to yours. There's good reasons to choose different brands, models, calibers. Its just not correct to generalize the whole hundred years of experience of the 1911 as "unreliable" for instance.
It was more accurate than all but my sig, which was about a tie. Lots of reliability and durability issues though. Wilson bought it back after multiple warranty repairs. Screw a 1911.
An "n" of one......
I had lots of 1911's--all of which were as reliable as my Glocks. Problem was the cost in time and dollars to get them there and keep them there. Not to mention the reduced magazine capacity and increased weight of the 1911 compared to more modern alternatives which have demonstrated reliability, durability, and ease of maintenance equivalent if not superior to the 1911. It is hard to justify all the deficit for minimal gain; I could have acquired 20 Glocks for what these cost me:
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
My Les Baer never fell apart like my Wilson, but it want very reliable either. Owned two expensive ones. Like my M&P more than either. I have no use for a 1911 unless ammo doesn't exist. They are hefty and have some sharp corners!
That was my issue. I paid $4K for a handgun and expected it to be g2g. I guess I'm too snotty/brat like to own a 1911. I just want it to run. Period. No chicken blood or candles required.I had lots of 1911's--all of which were as reliable as my Glocks. Problem was the cost in time and dollars to get them there and keep them there. Not to mention the reduced magazine capacity and increased weight of the 1911 compared to more modern alternatives which have demonstrated reliability, durability, and ease of maintenance equivalent if not superior to the 1911. It is hard to justify all the deficit for minimal gain; I could have acquired 20 Glocks for what these cost me:
For decades there was no bigger fan of the 1911 than I and for many of the reasons commonly mimmiced all over the internet. I've never been able to own a 1911 on the level of a Wilson, Brown, etc., but I have spent time shooting them. Most of mine have been Colts and Springers. Still, even though I couldn't play with the cool kids I considered myself a serious user of the design. I ran the living daylights out of them and never experienced any real issues. Two years ago when I started looking for a replacement I was honestly a bit surprised at the level of performance exhibited by other designs I had dismissed for years in my adoration of God's Gun. I still use the 1911 every week in a Bullseye match and enjoy doing so. For that use it still works best for me. However, in the end my sense of objectivity finally had to admit that it really couldn't do anything appreciably better than many more modern designs, all at lower cost and easier maintenance. I still love it, but I question the logic and objectivity of any entity that chooses to issue it at the unit or departmental level.
We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......
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