How Old and Slow is Too Old and Too Slow to Carry?

[Hambo]

I live in FL, so I see a lot of old people shoot. There are some that will burn you down, but there also a lot that are dangerous, and not in a good way. I saw one woman yesterday who should have been tossed off the range. Outside the range, she'll never get a chance to draw. A yute will body slam her into her car while she's trying to open the door and take her purse, her gun, and her car. A lot of people (Bill Wilson included) seem to believe they'll get close to an even break in a strongarm robbery.

As to age and shooting/carrying, do so as long as you're capable and competent, and have the wisdom to know when you aren't.

[mmc45414]

Ken Hackathon can still get it done in 1.34 and 1.37 seconds. Older doesn't automatically imply slow. I know he has arthritis and other ailments to boot.

And now I am pretty sure he also has a range in his yard.

I am almost 65, so still young in this discussion, but I am shooting pistols better than I have in my entire life, probably because I have been going out almost every weekend for maybe almost two decades. I can piece together the timeline because as my wife became really immersed in her business she started going in every Sunday, so rather than occasionally linking up with my buddies that shoot every week I started meeting them every week. Then eventually I became more monogamous in the pistol department. I used to be all about free love and a different companion all the time, now I am comfortable with my M&Ps. Though I did stray for a 2-3 year phase after the 9mm 1911 came into my life, but I am past that now.

[HCM]

I live in FL, so I see a lot of old people shoot. There are some that will burn you down, but there also a lot that are dangerous, and not in a good way. I saw one woman yesterday who should have been tossed off the range. Outside the range, she'll never get a chance to draw. A yute will body slam her into her car while she's trying to open the door and take her purse, her gun, and her car. A lot of people (Bill Wilson included) seem to believe they'll get close to an even break in a strongarm robbery.

As to age and shooting/carrying, do so as long as you're capable and competent, and have the wisdom to know when you aren't.

Unfortunately IME “dangerous and not in a good way” describes most people I see on local ranges. Especially indoor ranges for reason. It’s not just senior citizens that are shooting up the walls, the ceiling, the target frames, etc..

[Duces Tecum]

It is undeniable that there is a lot of value in the above posts. But it takes more wisdom than I possess to announce to another man what actions he may / may not do when it could involve saving a life important to him. This is especially so when I would not be suffering the consequences of his decision(s).

hugs to all,
Duces

[BN]

MY FIRM BELIEF: There is no standard on the expression of a Constitutionally protected right.

MY OPINION: If you cannot safely operate a motor vehicle, you cannot safely operate a handgun. There are A LOT of people who are 70+ who cannot safely operate a motor vehicle.

Since I'm the age group being talked about, here are my thoughts.

It isn't age. It's an individual thing, just like everything else.

I just turned 78 and the other day I posted on a thread here where I shot the Wizard Drill a couple times with a mouse gun and passed both. Before covid shut down a lot of ranges, I was winning outright or placing high in the local IDPA matches. That was through my 60s and into my early 70's. My Mom safely drove into her 90's and only quit because the arthritis in her shoulders hurt when she raised her hands on the wheel.

Shall not be infringed. That says it all.

[1Rangemaster]

MY FIRM BELIEF: There is no standard on the expression of a Constitutionally protected right.

MY OPINION: If you cannot safely operate a motor vehicle, you cannot safely operate a handgun. There are A LOT of people who are 70+ who cannot safely operate a motor vehicle.

Well said. There are plenty of people under 70 or 60 or 50 for that matter, who are unsafe in many activities. As I ease into retirement, I've given it some thought, and situational awareness and not doing stupid things in stupid places with stupid people are things I will focus on. Add to that, should a situation come up, "not my circus, not my clowns" would be my general guideline.

As to metrics, pretty sure I can now do Wilson's proposed standard, but IMHO that's a competition standard. Years ago, @vcdgripd typed out some "cold standards" that I've saved and try to hit one every month or two. He has a hit to a plate@10 yards, but there is no time limit; you just have to do it cold every time. There are others that have a time standard. To spin over to Claude Werner, who has done a lot of research and thinking from an armed citizen perspective,
he proposes a hit from ready to an 8.5x11 in 4 seconds. He opines that takes care of the major situations a citizen may find themselves in.
Safety, manipulating and awareness/attitude are key parts.

[RevolverRob]

Since I'm the age group being talked about, here are my thoughts.

It isn't age. It's an individual thing, just like everything else.

I just turned 78 and the other day I posted on a thread here where I shot the Wizard Drill a couple times with a mouse gun and passed both. Before covid shut down a lot of ranges, I was winning outright or placing high in the local IDPA matches. That was through my 60s and into my early 70's. My Mom safely drove into her 90's and only quit because the arthritis in her shoulders hurt when she raised her hands on the wheel.

Shall not be infringed. That says it all.

I can turn my own post inside out by pointing out that there are a high percentage of people under the age of 70 who also can't safely operate a motor vehicle. Yet...they think they can.

And judging by the number of automobile accidents, uninsured motorists, driving on suspended licenses, etc. there are people who know they do not meet standards and persist anyways.

Which is to say "standards" don't mean a hell of a lot if they are unenforced or not enforceable. Which all "standards" on Constitutional Rights are.

That does not change my opinion on the matter though, that common sense and basic awareness and operating standards, like those used to drive vehicles, should be some basic standard we all seek to maintain. And that if/when you're not capable, you should considering hanging up your guns.

That said, I ain't sending the cops to your house to take your guns. And I'll fight any politician who tries. Because while I have an opinion, I believe whole heartedly in each person's right to self defense and to keep and bear arms.

[idahojess]

Does anyone know what magazine the original quote that is the topic of this thread appeared in?

Was it an actual quote? Or paraphrasing?

[ST911]

Elsewhere, @Glenn E. Meyer quoted Bill Wilson having said in a magazine article:

This prompted a couple of responses agreeing and disagreeing with that concept. So I'm throwing this out for discussion - how old and slow is too old and too slow to carry responsibly?

It's less about age and speed than humility and self-awareness. Know what you're capable of and not. Do, accordingly.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Does anyone know what magazine the original quote that is the topic of this thread appeared in?

Was it an actual quote? Or paraphrasing?

It’s exact. It was either from a TFB noted or Greg Ellifritz linked article of Old farts opine on carry. Too lazy and dealing with my fucked up knee to dig for it. Sitting in the market while the wife shops. Guess I am an official geezer, unfit to Dane to defend himself. Whine!