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Thread: 10.5/11.5" SBRs/AR-15 pistols are okay for the average home defender

  1. #21
    Site Supporter MD7305's Avatar
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    P-F timing is always uncanny, I've been mulling this over for weeks as I plan to configure some type of HD setup. I've been stuck on barrel length and weighing the pros/cons of an 11.5" pistol build or a 16” carbine. Admittedly I'm 'trying' to keep it cheap-er, like PSA or MP Sport II cheap, but at those price points trusting a 'cheap' 11.5" upper concerns me. I've had a few years experience with an MP Sport II with stellar performance so I'm leaning that direction.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by MD7305 View Post
    P-F timing is always uncanny, I've been mulling this over for weeks as I plan to configure some type of HD setup. I've been stuck on barrel length and weighing the pros/cons of an 11.5" pistol build or a 16” carbine. Admittedly I'm 'trying' to keep it cheap-er, like PSA or MP Sport II cheap, but at those price points trusting a 'cheap' 11.5" upper concerns me. I've had a few years experience with an MP Sport II with stellar performance so I'm leaning that direction.
    Don't forget HCM's post. The Geissele is really good for the money no doubt.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter MD7305's Avatar
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    Yes, indeed, thanks. Totally forgot about the Super Duty LE.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by nalesq View Post
    I used to think getting involved in a self defense shooting with a braced AR pistol might look especially bad to an anti-gun prosecutor/jury, but few on the left seemed to get worked up over the fact that the recent Dayton mass murderer used such a weapon. They only cared that it was an “assault weapon,” and using a brace to get around the SBR thing was virtually irrelevant. If he had used a 20-inch AR, it would have been regarded no differently.


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    There’s a very different reason that no one on the left is talking about the Dayton shooter.


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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Runkle View Post
    I wouldn’t use a 10.5 or 11.5 gun in a hallway without a suppressor, ever. The concussion is horrific.

    There are too many legal challenges to using the pistol braces in a shooting (I think the prosecution could argue that it is a de facto buttstock if intended to be shouldered by the end-user, despite how it is regulated when sold by BATFE).

    There are too many legal challenges regarding access when using title II weapons (how was it stored, etc.).

    The only way any AR makes sense to me is if it is the gun you shoot most often.


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    Sorry but this is just fear mongering for the sake of fear mongering. Pistol braces are legal to shoulder and the latest ATF letter that came out in June or July provided some clarification on it for anyone that could read it and not lose their shit over "ERMAGHERD THERE CHANGING THE WAY YOU MEASURE AN AR PISTOL!!!".

    Attachment 42497

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    Sorry but this is just fear mongering for the sake of fear mongering. Pistol braces are legal to shoulder and the latest ATF letter that came out in June or July provided some clarification on it for anyone that could read it and not lose their shit over "ERMAGHERD THERE CHANGING THE WAY YOU MEASURE AN AR PISTOL!!!".

    Attachment 42497
    My statement and your batfe letter don’t seem to cover the same subject matter.

    Also, the BATFE offers opinions on the law. That is not the same thing as an existing ruling in a court case.


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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Josh Runkle View Post
    My statement and your batfe letter don’t seem to cover the same subject matter.

    Also, the BATFE offers opinions on the law. That is not the same thing as an existing ruling in a court case.


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    "A stabilizing brace is not an element of either a statutory or regulatory definition of a firearm"

  8. #28
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    Are AR-pistols ok for the average home defender? Define average. My definition would be somebody that has very little to no training, does not shoot enough for skill development, has little or no knowledge of tactics or the law and finally thinks all ARs are the same and the cheapest is good enough.

    So I say No to AR PISTOLS FOR HOME DEFENSE for the average user. the average home owner would be better off gathering the family in a safe room and staying there so the short barrel has no advantage.

    I have two 16” ARs I trust for defense. My go to is my 870 and my carry gun. For defense why sacrifice the reliability and ballistics of the 16”. I have searched many building and houses with a 16” AR and an 18” 870.
    I have one BCM pistol with a brace; it has a T-1 and a surefire X300 and a sling. It is my version of a hard use, reliable 11.5” 5.56 pistol. I have not shot in enough for home defense yet. But so far it runs great. I also have two Palmetto Arms AR pistols as range toys. I bought them because they were cheap. One is a 10.5” upper that I will be selling shortly. The other is an 11.5”. Once I sell the 10.5 I will get a .300BO upper to play with. I do think the short barrels look cooler and feel cooler but I don’t have enough 5.56 ammo for my ARs much less enough to match a load to my 11.5 upper. I wish I had the money to buy a pallet of 5.56 loaded with either a Nosler partitions or trophy bonded bear claws
    Last edited by Poconnor; 09-13-2019 at 10:38 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    "A stabilizing brace is not an element of either a statutory or regulatory definition of a firearm"
    And my original quote was...”I think the prosecution could argue that it is a de facto buttstock if intended to be shouldered by the end-user, despite how it is regulated when sold by BATFE”

    Your letter simply explains how it is regulated by BATFE when manufactured and sold, but doesn’t address my concern as originally expressed, which is: end-user intent.

    A rubber band when sold is not a machine gun. I’m sure that the BATFE could easily produce a letter saying that the ownership of “a rubber band and a firearm” does not constitute the ownership of a machine gun. That, however, does not address end-user intent, and does not mean that improper usage based on end-user intent contrary to original intent when manufactured cannot be prosecuted.


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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Poconnor View Post
    Are AR-pistols ok for the average home defender? Define average. My definition would be somebody that has very little to no training, does not shoot enough for skill development, has little or no knowledge of tactics or the law and finally thinks all ARs are the same and the cheapest is good enough.

    So I say No to AR PISTOLS FOR HOME DEFENSE for the average user. the average home owner would be better off gathering the family in a safe room and staying there so the short barrel has no advantage.

    I have two 16” ARs I trust for defense. My go to is my 870 and my carry gun. For defense why sacrifice the reliability and ballistics of the 16”. I have searched many building and houses with a 16” AR and an 18” 870.
    I have one BCM pistol with a brace; it has a T-1 and a surefire X300 and a sling. It is my version of a hard use, reliable 11.5” 5.56 pistol. I have not shot in enough for home defense yet. But so far it runs great. I also have two Palmetto Arms AR pistols as range toys. I bought them because they were cheap. One is a 10.5” upper that I will be selling shortly. The other is an 11.5”. Once I sell the 10.5 I will get a .300BO upper to play with. I do think the short barrels look cooler and feel cooler but I don’t have enough 5.56 ammo for my ARs much less enough to match a load to my 11.5 upper. I wish I had the money to buy a pallet of 5.56 loaded with either a Nosler partitions or trophy bonded bear claws
    I'm not interested in how you define average. I'm looking for hard data. So far you provided feelings and some inaccurate info like shorter barrels being less reliable. That just isn't the case, but your 870 and carry gun will probably be fine too.

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