Without doubt the marketing mantra has convinced cops everywhere that the 9mm is not worthy of being a cop holster. I just don't get it.
Without doubt the marketing mantra has convinced cops everywhere that the 9mm is not worthy of being a cop holster. I just don't get it.
I think half of it's marketing (How else are you going to sell new guns every five or ten years?) and part of it's the belief that, with the right death ray in the holster, all the various problems from bad training to plain bad luck can be mitigated.Originally Posted by jlweems
I've sold .357SIG and .45GAP guns to small departments before and... well, actually, I didn't sell them; the chiefs had sold themselves before they even came in the door. It was as though, by getting the right caliber (and certainly no bitty nine is the right caliber) they were putting a force field around their guys.
Blame Glock.
No, it's true. When the '94 AWB came into existence, pre-ban Glock magazines became very valuable. And Glock found a fantastic source for them: the thousands of US LE agencies carrying G17s and G19s. They began a systematic program of "upgrading" departments into .40-cal guns -- same holster, same mag pouches, often straight one-for-one trades that cost the department absolutely nothing -- and in return they got much-worn rarely-shot 9mm Glocks and tons of pre-ban mags.
It was still an administrative headache for the department, of course, and many would be left with large caches of 9mm ammo. So Glock began the full court press that .40 was a zillion times "more deadlier" than 9mm.
Other companies got on the same bandwagon and before you knew it, almost everyone was willing to upsell a 9mm department (whether they had Glocks, Berettas, Smiths, or SIGs) to their .40-cal gun for next to nothing.
In turn, you had rank and file cops who know less about terminal ballistics than nuclear physics telling administrators that they needed more powerful guns! It became an easy and inexpensive way for FOP bosses, department chiefs, and firearms/training division guys to deliver something "new and improved" to the troops. Now, if you suggest they back down to the 9mm again, the fear is that an officer will die in an OIS where the BG doesn't die from a single 9mm hit, and that will get used as proof that the 9mm move was a mistake. Of course, if the same officer dies in an OIS where the BG doesn't die from a single .40-cal hit, they'll blame the ammo or the tactics or PCP but at least they know it wasn't the caliber.
That's not hyperbole. I've dealt with multiple dept/agency FIs who've recommended switching to 9mm to save money and improve qual scores and in every case it was shot down not because the Chief thought the 9mm was too wimpy but because it would affect morale and open them up to liability.
I do the purchases from the other side of the equation. At my previous employers, I was told from above that our new service pistol had to be .40SW simply because we had a supply of .40SW ammo on hand and, at that time, the SRT had .40SW MP-5s. The chief himself was a .45 ACP guy, but didn't want to have to stock multiple ammo types as well as having to buy a huge shipment of ammo right off the bat too. It was hard to argue with him as he was getting funding for new pistols, and there was a truth to his logic; so, those of us involved backed him on it 100%.
Keep in mind that the discussion at the above agency was whether or not to go to the ACP and not the 9mm. If I had tried to pitch to the troops that we were going to 9mm, or I tried it where I am now, they would have thought I was much more nuts than that they already knew to be true.
I don't see where you can blame Glock alone. They were just more successful at it than the other makers who tried the same thing.
The profession as a whole has fully bought into the 9mm being inferior to the .40SW and that the .40SW is THE round for cops to carry.
^ This is all truth. ^
Of course, now I'm idly wondering what the sales pitches were like back in the early '70s when the first reasonably-priced medium-frame .357s were hitting the streets. I vaguely remember, growing up in suburban ATL, the stink in the editorial columns in the late '70s-early '80s about how the poor, undergunned APD used .38 Spl while all the progressive suburban departments issued magnums... Or was it that the civilized APD used humane .38 Spl unlike the barbarians in the suburbs that issued magnums? I can't remember exactly.
Reggie Pellets^ This is all truth. ^
Of course, now I'm idly wondering what the sales pitches were like back in the early '70s when the first reasonably-priced medium-frame .357s were hitting the streets. I vaguely remember, growing up in suburban ATL, the stink in the editorial columns in the late '70s-early '80s about how the poor, undergunned APD used .38 Spl while all the progressive suburban departments issued magnums... Or was it that the civilized APD used humane .38 Spl unlike the barbarians in the suburbs that issued magnums? I can't remember exactly.
That was the name for the .38Sp ammo that the APD was issuing back then. We have a captain that was a rookie cop with APD in those days, and he still speaks of Reggie Pellets with a mix of "you guys won't believe this" humor tinged with resentment.
Reggie was the first name of the chief that selected that ammo. I'll ask the captain exactly what they were. During that same time frame, a neighboring agency adopted the S&W 25-5 in .45 Colt and issued some sort of Winchester Silvertip ammo. They did allow personal carry of a smaller revolver for those who wanted to do so.
Just heard back from our captain, the neighboring agency I mentioned above as having adopted the .45 Colt had not yet done so and was issuing a .357mag hollow point at that time.
The Reggie Pellet as a lead round nose bullet somewhere around 100 grains in weight. It wouldn't penetrate car doors.
Reggie was Chief Reginald Evans who was appointed by Mayor Maynard Jackson.
ETA: Evans also revoked authorization to carry shotguns and rifles.
Last edited by jlw; 12-24-2011 at 02:26 PM. Reason: add info
Yup. That's what they called 'em. I remember that from the AJC articles and columns.
Cobb County PD. You could tell the guys that carried them at a glance because they had speedloader holders the size of wastepaper baskets.(They kept those as late as... maybe... '87? '88? If I remember the story, they were copycatting the GSP?)
The agency I was referencing was the Dekalb County PD.Yup. That's what they called 'em. I remember that from the AJC articles and columns.
Cobb County PD. You could tell the guys that carried them at a glance because they had speedloader holders the size of wastepaper baskets.
They switched to Beretta 92s when the switch to bottom feeders took place. They recently switched over to M&P40s.
IIRC, Nyeti's agency used to carry .45 Colt's early in his career--very few bad guys walked away from those hits...
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