Ninety percent of shooting is trigger control

[nwhpfan]

I am convinced that at least ninety percent of shooting is trigger control, and at least ninety percent of what is discussed here and elsewhere is about shooting stuff other than trigger control.

Did that surprise you? Guns are cool, I get why people like guns & gear, I like it all too.

But shooting. Most people just aren't that good and really aren't that intersted in getting really good. There are still pepole that remark how they shoot this gun or that -so much better.- Their are people that think "training" means taking a class.

Aiming the gun to where you want the bullet to hit and pulling the trigger wtihout disrupting the sights is %100 of shooting. Or so somebody famous wrote that in a book once. But what's the fun in repeating just that and saying "dry fire, dry fire, dry fire."

And I pulled this off of @Clusterfrack 's signature because it's the question Master Class shooters like him asks when you're just about to the top and are really trying to figure what's next and the answer is really just.....better, faster, smaller, farther. And since it's a quote from one of the best trigger strokers in the world it makes all the more sense.

"You don’t really graduate from certain problems or certain things… like you always have to work on trigger control and pulling the trigger straight. " --Ben Stoeger 1/24/2018

[Clusterfrack]

Two questions for the serious shooters here:

1) Do you complete pure non-timed accuracy drills/tests in every live fire session?
NO. Absolutely not. I only have so much time and endurance for each session, and focus on very specific goals in live fire.

2) Do you complete trigger control drills during every dry practice session?
YES. Even if I don't have time for a serious dryfire session, I pull the trigger every day. Sometimes multiple times, and with multiple guns. Freestyle, SHO, WHO.

[joshs]

I’ve been playing with RDS equipped pistols a lot more recently, and I think one of the major benefits is that they allow more attention to be devoted to everything other than aiming the gun. All of the visual skill that goes into shooting a pistol well at speed is unneeded with a red dot.

[runcible]

Sure, here are a few thoughts. Probably most important is that there are very few things in shooting that are one way only. We hear, see and process thoughts and things differently and we are all physically different. I’m a strong believer that what works best for some, won’t work best for others.

Having said that, most people I’ve worked with don’t show their best results when trying to physically muscle keeping the gun on target. Grip (strong/firm), stance, forearms, etc. all contribute to helping mitigate recoil, but IMO, physically trying to force the gun to stay on target isn’t a best practice.

@Clusterfrack’s comment about driving the gun after recoil and back down is spot on IMO. I want to be an active participant returning the sight back into the notch. I find the timing of helping return the front sight much easier than trying to muscle the gun in place.

Balance grip, stance, tension so that they still allow the trigger finger to work independently. I find it’s impossible for me to try and force the gun to stay still and keep any trigger dexterity at all. It is possible for me to help return the front sight into the notch and maintain an isolated trigger press.

Thank you! I'm chasing down how to articulate certain points, and I think that your way of putting it is very elegant.

There is the one caveat, that I think that if we load more tension onto the gun than the forearms and hand musculature allow for, most will find that the gun stays more put than not under recoil; but it's understandable that it's a huge change to make for any that have decades of shooting this way or that way, relative to teaching a new shooter for the first time.

[runcible]

Two questions for the serious shooters here:

1) Do you complete pure non-timed accuracy drills/tests in every live fire session?
2) Do you complete trigger control drills during every dry practice session?

I shoot B8’s at 25 yards during every live practice session, which works out to be about 50 rounds per session. So I spend about 20% of my total ammo budget on accuracy related work.

For dry practice I do two trigger control drills each and every session; the wall drill, and an accuracy drill I don’t really have a name for, which is just drawing as fast as I can to a low percent target (usually a dot on the wall) and breaking a shot as soon as I have a decent sight picture. The focus of this drill is to watch the front sight and impart as little movement to it as I can with a “full speed” press. This is not a pure accuracy drill as I do it to break the habit of drawing slow and aiming slow on low % shots. I usually use a .5 second par and try to have the whole process competed at the end of the second beep, so about .8 par overall. I do 100% focus on imparting as little sight movement as possible with my trigger press, and not so much attention on the sight picture being perfect.

1. Yes; periodicity and specificity in training demand that I drop off one or two performance goals temporarily in order to emphasize one or two other performance goals. For instance, removing the draw stroke or deemphasizing speed in order to specifically work at timing or precision.

2. Yes, with the caveat that the feedback loop of an opposing grip and an appropriately paced trigger control (or, the quality of an opposed press of the trigger) is difficult to further separate during dry practice, as I perform such.

[Bart Carter]

... All of the visual skill that goes into shooting a pistol well at speed is unneeded with a red dot.

I never had that much trouble aligning my sights with corrective lenses. What the red dot does for me is it lets me shoot without them.

[joshs]

I never had that much trouble aligning my sights with corrective lenses. What the red dot does for me is it lets me shoot without them.

For me, when sight tracking is more visually complicated due to bad lighting, visually confusing target arrays, or moving targets, the dot requires much less attention on my part. This lets me put ninety percent (:P) of my attention on correctly pressing the trigger. If I'm trying to shoot a bunch of tightly intermixed shoot and no-shoot targets in a large array of targets in a USPSA match or a drill like Typewriter, I'll often have some amount of visual confusion that requires some of my attention to ensure that I'm properly aiming the gun. The dot completely simplifies this for me.

[GJM]

For me, when sight tracking is more visually complicated due to bad lighting, visually confusing target arrays, or moving targets, the dot requires much less attention on my part. This lets me put ninety percent (:P) of my attention on correctly pressing the trigger. If I'm trying to shoot a bunch of tightly intermixed shoot and no-shoot targets in a large array of targets in a USPSA match or a drill like Typewriter, I'll often have some amount of visual confusion that requires some of my attention to ensure that I'm properly aiming the gun. The dot completely simplifies this for me.

There are a bunch of things that are easier with a red dot. There are also a bunch of things that are different, and potentially harder with a red dot, such as:

Learning to shoot a group when the dot appears to move more than iron sights.

Reliably acquiring the dot on the presentation.

Reliably acquiring the dot with one hand.

Losing the reference of the slide on closer shots.

Learning the dot does not need to stop, just stay within the acceptable scoring area.

Tracking the dot in recoil.

On balance, I think the red dot on a pistol while not as much of an advantage as a red dot on a carbine is a net positive, and subject to durability and reliability advances (Aimpoint are you getting close) is the future. It also makes you a better iron sight shooter.

[Dismas316]

There are a bunch of things that are easier with a red dot. There are also a bunch of things that are different, and potentially harder with a red dot, such as:

Learning to shoot a group when the dot appears to move more than iron sights.

Reliably acquiring the dot on the presentation.

Reliably acquiring the dot with one hand.

Losing the reference of the slide on closer shots.

Learning the dot does not need to stop, just stay within the acceptable scoring area.

Tracking the dot in recoil.

On balance, I think the red dot on a pistol while not as much of an advantage as a red dot on a carbine is a net positive, and subject to durability and reliability advances (Aimpoint are you getting close) is the future. It also makes you a better iron sight shooter.

Good summary. I have been debating with myself if I should go to the red dot for completion. Recently moved to the g34.5 mos from my 19x in and I think the red dot may help. I’m pretty comfortable shooting the red dot as I have it on RMR on my 19 but most of my shooting over the last year has been with iron sites. Been thinking the dot can help give me a little bit of an advantage vs irons. As I’ve been getting obsessed with competition, so every little advantage may help.

[fixer]

Fantastic thread. I literally took notes to try at next range session and tonight with dry fire.

This is classic, rare-form, PF material.

I would add to this thread by saying...in my journey to stop yanking DA shots low on a B92, I've found its all trigger and mental. When I shoot in SA I shoot acceptably. In DA, I've found my mind conflating the long and heavy trigger pull to nuclear level recoil. There is nothing different but the two trigger characteristics.

@GJM suggested in doing ball and dummy and this has made a huge improvement.