44 May be Special. But Not for Defense!

[Tokarev]

Well, the article in the OP - fired 200-grain GDs from one of the new 3" barreled .44 spl GP100s. Velocity was a sedate 747 fps. Penetration was 12.25" (a little more would be great). Expanded diameter was reported at 0.691". With a clothing barrier, penetration was 14" and expanded diameter was reported at 0.592"

LSWCHPs actually showed very little expansion (0.441" expanded diameter) at the lower velocities.

Lead appears to be a fairly unpredictable bullet material with regard to hollow points. Or at least fairly difficult to get a proper alloy.

Make the bullet a little too hard and it won't expand or will crumble and break apart. Make the bullet a little too soft and it'll expand too quickly with shallow penetration or mushroom so much it peels apart.

As posted, my personal 255gr cast reload does very well in gel. It opens nicely and penetrates well when loaded with Unique or 2400. But I tried a LSWC bullet from another source that doesn't do so well. At standard 44 Special speeds of 750-800 fps the bullet will icepick the gel block. Bumping velocity up makes the bullet shatter and fragment within the first 8-10 inches.

I also wonder about cast bullet effectiveness against barriers other than clothing. Will a cast bullet defeat auto glass or automotive sheet metal? I guess I need to visit the local junk yard and see if I can buy a few old doors and windshields.



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[eb07]

If anyone is interested, here is what I recorded. My 200 grain handloads are moving.

Charter Bulldog 2.5″ Barrel
Shooting Chrony 10 feet from muzzle
Altitude: 980 feet above sea level
Temps are noted as it gets hot here and my readings are higher because of it

200gr Speer Gold Dot 44 Special
8.6gr Power Pistol/Win primer/1.490″
105 Degrees
Avg – 1015 FPS – 457ft lbs energy
95 Degrees
Avg – 993.3 FPS – 438ft lbs energy
86 Degrees
Avg – 950.8 FPS – 402ft lbs energy

200gr Winchester Silver Tip 44 Special Factory Load
95 degrees
Avg – 792 FPS – 279 ft lbs energy
86 degrees
Avg – 770.8 FPS – 264 ft lbs energy

240gr Speer JHP 44 Special
7.8gr Power Pistol/Win primer/1.465″
105 degrees
Avg – 939.6 FPS – 470ft lbs energy
86 Degrees
Avg – 916.5 FPS – 448ft lbs energy


240gr Speer JHP 44 Special
8.0gr Power Pistol/Win primer/1.465″
86 degrees
Avg 927.8 FPS – 459ft lbs energy

180gr Hornaday XTP 44 Special
9.1gr Power Pistol/Win primer/1.480″
105 degrees
Avg – 1089 FPS – 474ft lbs energy

225gr Speer JHP 44 Special
7.7gr Power Pistol/Win primer/1.500″
105 degrees
Avg – 934.4 FPS – 436ft lbs energy

[Tokarev]

So is there no consumer interest in an industry standard +P rating?

While it is true that handloaders have been loading to higher velocities since Elmer Keith got his first piece of Special brass these loads have never been supported by firearms manufacturers.

The 38 Special exists in both standard and +P loading. This gives the consumer the choice of low recoil practice ammo and high pressure defense ammo. Pretty much everyone making 38 Special makes a +P load and a standard pressure load not to mention 357 Magnum. All these cartridges seem to serve equally in their own markets and I don't see why the same options shouldn't exist for the 44.

Would those who own 5-shot Bulldogs and Rugers and Smiths not be interested in factory loads that produce higher velocities from short barrels? The original loads would still exist for target practice while the +P loads would give better terminal performance from stubby barrels. And the 44 Magnum would still exist for hunting, hiking, etc.

It would be nice to also have +P load data that's available from bullet and powder manufacturers. I'd guess most handloaders would welcome modern data with modern powders and some newer bullets that gives better performance from 3" GP100 and M69 revolvers.

I'm not envisioning a pressure spec that is anywhere close to the 44 Magnum but rather a limit that's maybe 15% above the current 15,500 psi limit.

Hot 45 Colt reloading data exists as does 45-70. Heck even the little 32 has some hotter ammo available. So why not?

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[Tamara]

The 38 Special exists in both standard and +P loading. This gives the consumer the choice of low recoil practice ammo and high pressure defense ammo. Pretty much everyone making 38 Special makes a +P load and a standard pressure load not to mention 357 Magnum. All these cartridges seem to serve equally in their own markets and I don't see why the same options shouldn't exist for the 44.

Most of the ballistically woke people I know use standard-pressure wadcutters in their short-barreled .38 Spls.

[BJXDS]

Wasn't the 44 spcl Inspctor Harold Francis load of choice?

[Tokarev]

Do you feel lucky?

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[Jeep]

Most of the ballistically woke people I know use standard--pressure wadcutters in their short-barreled .38 Spls.

.

Personally, I try to avoid being "woke" about anything, (most "woke" people I've met have the strangest notions about a lot of things) but I've never seen any reason to increase recoil when penetration is already more than adequate. Accepting a bit more recoil to get a hollow point to open is one thing. More recoil so the bullet can go downrange and take out the nuns, their bus and the trial lawyers seems to me a bit questionable.

[Duces Tecum]

Well, except maybe for the trial lawyers.

[Tokarev]

Skeeter's load of 7.5gr of Unique with a 255gr cast is probably somewhere around 22,000 psi. Not too much higher, pressure-wise, than 45 ACP and probably has "hot" as anyone needs without getting a Magnum.

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[Malamute]

Skeeter's load of 7.5gr of Unique with a 255gr cast is probably somewhere around 22,000 psi. Not too much higher, pressure-wise, than 45 ACP and probably has "hot" as anyone needs without getting a Magnum.

Your post made me curious, I was thinking that pressure level was a bit high for that load, I recall the old NRA reloading manual showed the 17 gr 2400/429421 Lyman bullet at around 25,000 CUP (which was often listed as PSI but was done with copper crushers for the most part). I found a fair bit of info, reading mainly on the castboolit forum.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q...=1498447968071

One interesting bit that was mentioned, the 7.5 gr Unique/429421 load showed more pressure than 9 grs Unique/429421 in a magnum case.