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Thread: Small dots don't seem to work for me. Any red dots that have an etched reticle?

  1. #41
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    I just watched this video with the Steiner

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGr17gDZ0A&t=

    And it really makes me think that I'm not going to like the Steiner and worse I have a Vortex Razor Gen II already on the way for my AR and it makes me think I'm not going to like that either with the reason being that because it's not the reticle that is illuminated it is a dot in the center acting in a manner very similar to a red dot I'm worried I'm going to end up with the exact same issue I have with red dots where the dot in the center looks like a starburst instead of a dot.

    That's gonna bum me out hard if I have to sell or return the Vortex because while I'm still trying to figure out the whole Scorpion otpic I was over here thinking "Well at least I got that AR optic thing figured out."

  2. #42
    Dot for the Steiner or Vortex should be much crisper than that of a traditional red dot like an Aimpoint. My understanding is it is the reticle that is illuminated, just the small center part of it.

    I have slight astigmatism and I have both the Steiner and an Aimpoint H2. Definitely a big difference between the sharpness of the LVPO dot (no perceptible bloom unless I crank the brightness way too high) and the Aimpoint.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backspin View Post
    Dot for the Steiner or Vortex should be much crisper than that of a traditional red dot like an Aimpoint. My understanding is it is the reticle that is illuminated, just the small center part of it.

    I have slight astigmatism and I have both the Steiner and an Aimpoint H2. Definitely a big difference between the sharpness of the LVPO dot (no perceptible bloom unless I crank the brightness way too high) and the Aimpoint.
    *Whew* that said I'm going to be extra critical of that Vortex I get while it's still in the return window.

  4. #44
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    I have the Vortex 1x prism scope and it's tack sharp. My Aimpoint is a little cluster of grapes, unless I take a photo of it, in which case it's perfect in the photo. Darn camera lens...
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    Not another dime.

  5. #45
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Speaking of which, $174 shipped doesn't suck.

    https://gun.deals/product/vortex-spi...sm-scope-19999
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    I just watched this video with the Steiner

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGr17gDZ0A&t=

    And it really makes me think that I'm not going to like the Steiner and worse I have a Vortex Razor Gen II already on the way for my AR and it makes me think I'm not going to like that either with the reason being that because it's not the reticle that is illuminated it is a dot in the center acting in a manner very similar to a red dot I'm worried I'm going to end up with the exact same issue I have with red dots where the dot in the center looks like a starburst instead of a dot.

    That's gonna bum me out hard if I have to sell or return the Vortex because while I'm still trying to figure out the whole Scorpion otpic I was over here thinking "Well at least I got that AR optic thing figured out."
    I have a PST II and the 1 moa dot is very crisp compared to my Aimpoint PRO. The Vortex is really heavy but on 1x it is pretty awesome.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by OlongJohnson View Post
    Speaking of which, $174 shipped doesn't suck.

    https://gun.deals/product/vortex-spi...sm-scope-19999
    That looks like it's the older model of their prism scope. The newer version
    http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/...1x-prism-scope

    Has the up/down arrows like their Razor AMG UH-1 holographic optic and it runs off a AAA instead of a CR2032 which is an improvement in my mind.

  8. #48
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    I just watched this video with the Steiner

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGr17gDZ0A&t=
    Just a caveat when viewing videos like these: a camera is incapable of accurately representing what human vision can discern in high contrast scenarios. In fact, even the best consumer digital cameras are only capable of rendering detail in about 1/10th the range of light intensity (contrast) compared to human vision. The unilluminated reticle shown in the video was most likely much more visible than depicted.

    At least in my case (and assuming an adequately BOLD reticle), by the time illumination becomes of any assistance to me seeing the aiming point, the light level is already low enough to make PID of a target very difficult without the use of artificial light. Once the target is lit up, an etched reticle becomes much easier to see.

    Of course if I'm equipped with NV gear in a combat role, then the illuminated reticle is a requirement. This is where I suspect much of the advocacy for reticle illumination comes from.

    One other note of interest: before illuminated reticles became commonplace, heavy reticles (such as the German #4) were used to give them better visibility in low light conditions. One potential drawback to today's illuminated scopes is that many models use a very fine reticle, which is good for precision in daylight conditions but becomes a challenge in low light should the illumination fail for any reason. An interesting take on this subject here that IMO is worth the read.

    For my civilian recreational use and enjoyment, reticle design is more important than whether it is illuminated or not. If I'm ever forced into night time combat operations, I'll melt down a credit card for one of these.
    Last edited by NH Shooter; 11-21-2018 at 05:35 AM. Reason: typos

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by mrozowjj View Post
    *Whew* that said I'm going to be extra critical of that Vortex I get while it's still in the return window.
    Any optic with a diopter adjustment will exhibit less starbursting than an RDS. For this reason, as well as the LPV dot being part of a lit etched reticle (as opposed to a projected dot), the dot sharpness on an LPV (or something like a Leupold Prismatic), will always be better for corneal surgery patients, or people with significant astigmatism.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leroy View Post
    I have a PST II and the 1 moa dot is very crisp compared to my Aimpoint PRO. The Vortex is really heavy but on 1x it is pretty awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by NH Shooter View Post
    Just a caveat when viewing videos like these: a camera is incapable of accurately representing what human vision can discern in high contrast scenarios. In fact, even the best consumer digital cameras are only capable of rendering detail in about 1/10th the range of light intensity (contrast) compared to human vision. The unilluminated reticle shown in the video was most likely much more visible than depicted.

    At least in my case (and assuming an adequately BOLD reticle), by the time illumination becomes of any assistance to me seeing the aiming point, the light level is already low enough to make PID of a target very difficult without the use of artificial light. Once the target is lit up, an etched reticle becomes much easier to see.

    Of course if I'm equipped with NV gear in a combat role, then the illuminated reticle is a requirement. This is where I suspect much of the advocacy for reticle illumination comes from.

    One other note of interest: before illuminated reticles became commonplace, heavy reticles (such as the German #4) were used to give them better visibility in low light conditions. One potential drawback to today's illuminated scopes is that many models use a very fine reticle, which is good for precision in daylight conditions but becomes a challenge in low light should the illumination fail for any reason. An interesting take on this subject here that IMO is worth the read.

    For my civilian recreational use and enjoyment, reticle design is more important than whether it is illuminated or not. If I'm ever forced into night time combat operations, I'll melt down a credit card for one of these.
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveB View Post
    Any optic with a diopter adjustment will exhibit less starbursting than an RDS. For this reason, as well as the LPV dot being part of a lit etched reticle (as opposed to a projected dot), the dot sharpness on an LPV (or something like a Leupold Prismatic), will always be better for corneal surgery patients, or people with significant astigmatism.


    Well I just got the Vortex Razor Gen 2 in the mail today and guess what; starburst in same lighting conditions that the red dots starburst in. On top of that I found the eyebox to be rather unforgiving and it is heavy. I get most people love this thing but it is a resounding disappointment to me.

    Guess I'm returning the Razor and going ACOGs on everything.

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