Not an oil engineer and not going to type out a butt ton to support this, but my take is pretty simple:Originally Posted by Casey
Even if Amsoil is "better" it will not be "better" enough to matter. You will not have an engine lubricant failure using Mobil 1 prior to everything else on the vehicle going to shit. In other words, picking Amsoil por picking Mobil 1 will not be the limiting factor of your Toyota's lifespan.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
My Ford is dead. Pretty much everything except the engine and transmission got killed by that 30,000 pound box truck.I guess that's the price you have to pay to keep a Ford running
I'd say yes and no on this.
We have to ask ourselves what actually kills engines? If we leave aside manufacturing defects (Ford 5.4 Triton engines are a good example...just a bad design that is constant problems) it tends to be things like lack of oil or timely oil changes.
Somebody buys a vehicle, hears about a 10,000 mile OCI (oil change interval) and runs the vehicle that long but doesn't check the oil. Oil level gets low because oil is slowly consumed by the operation of the engine. Manufacturers can allow oil levels to get stupendously low before they actually throw a warning light. I've seen cars with lifters making serious noise due to lack of oil and no light on the dash because apparently the manufacturer's threshold for low oil pressure was so goddamn low the engine would grenade before throwing a light.
As common as abusive neglect is with vehicles, even that outcome tends to be one of the less common outcomes.
The more common maintenance-related issues that cause engines to be written off are things like "burning oil". Accumulation of carbon and/or sludge on the piston rings and inside the oil passages for the piston rings. This often "freezes" them in an expanded position and they start to rub against one spot on the cylinder wall. Over time that rubs the wall of the cylinder smooth, and oil starts getting by the oil control ring and into the combustion chamber where it's not supposed to really be. That just gets worse over time...and it tends to happen to more cylinders over time until the point where the engine is burning so much oil and has lost so much compression that the block can't be repaired (many cylinder walls on engines these days are too thin to bore out) or the repair is so expensive that it's cheaper to buy a new engine.
With variable valve timing based engines, most use oil pressure to control the phasers/actuators that control the variable timing. The passages that feed those can get clogged up with sludge or particulates that come out of the oil and stick to surfaces and that causes wear to the gears attached to the cams and wear on the chain. The timing chains themselves end up "stretching", which is a technically inaccurate description of the links in the chain itself wearing to the point that the chain ends up longer than it left the factory. Whether it's a stretched chain or a malfunctioning VVT actuator, chains get loose, start to beat chain guides and eventually shatter them. Then chunks of the chain guide end up getting thrown through the engine. They can end up wedging in a valve spring preventing valves from fully closing and then the valve gets whacked by a piston and it's curtains for that engine. Or a bit gets stuck under the timing chain and makes the chain jump a link or two and a valve gets whacked and it's game over for that engine.
The oil passage thing also plays into the bottom end where losing viscosity and accumulation of sludge and the like can contribute to more wear on bearing surfaces, etc.
Some oils will do a better job of reducing the accumulation of these wear factors over the long term than others.
Of course, changing your oil at a sensible interval, using a good filter, and using good quality gas will also help reduce the accumulation of those wear factors. Doing all of that combined with using the "best" oil you can get will help further.
A 2020 Tundra with the 5.7 will easily go 300,000 relatively trouble free miles on Toyota's oil with sensible maintenance and no factory defects. If you just take it to the dealer every 5K or twice a year and have them use factory oil and filters it'll be fine. (I'm assuming they use factory branded oil...you should verify that) It's impossible for anyone to say that a specific truck will go 375,000 with Mobil 1 and 425,000 with Amsoil Signature.
What you can know for certain is that a true group IV based oil with more detergents and anti-wear additives will result in less of the things that cause those engine killing accumulations impacting your engine. Enough less to justify the extra couple of bucks? That's where you have to take the Apostle Paul's advice and work out your own salvation.
Last edited by TCinVA; 06-08-2022 at 10:13 PM.
3/15/2016
That seems a reasonable viewpoint. I'm certainly not pushing this vehicle to its limits. If anything, I baby it in how I drive because I want it to last.
not going unnoticed that a forum dedicated to the minutiae of guns, gear, & (hopefully) training is also populated by a bunch of folks that are obsessed with the minutiae of motoroil :P
Does the above offend? If you have paid to be here, you can click here to put it in context.
I wanna, I mean I NEED TO, know if HST is better than Gold Dot?!?!?!
This really gets deep when motorcycle oil is the topic. Typical modern motorcycles have an integrated transmission that shares the engine oil and a multiplate wet clutch that is submerged in it also, I always figured that it would be a good idea to use motorcycle specific oil since that is significantly different than a car or light truck, even if it does cost three times as much per quart (in a vehicle that holds a little over three quarts...), but some people are absolutely convinced the whole idea is just a big industry scheme to fuck you out of your hard earned dollars. I accept that I am maybe not smart enough to know if I am absolutely right, but I am confident that I am smart enough to figure out a way to earn an extra twelve dollars a year.
I've driven to Shawnee OK, Dallas TX (twice), Indianapolis, and Miami with an STLE certified lubrication engineer.
Sooner or later you run out of conversations about titties and beer.
...and the intricacies of oil blending and performance beats the living hell out of hearing Spotify play "The boy who won't hoe corn" yet again.
But I do find it interesting. And it doesn't raise blood pressure like politics and current events. And it reminds me of the time I spent managing an auto parts store while I was working through my first shot at college where this kind of stuff came up frequently, only usually with a lot less intelligence.
Oddly enough, the genesis of those kinds of discussions is the obsession people seem to have with lubricating their firearms as little as possible and not really understanding how grease works. Friction doesn't tend to kill guns. Shock/repeated impact and pressure tend to break big parts on guns...but proper lubrication certainly helps them run more reliably.
Last edited by TCinVA; 06-09-2022 at 12:30 PM.
3/15/2016
I hate turbos. They run stupid hot and increase the stress to every part of the engine. Manufacturers design them to last the warranty period, I would have no hesitation driving them for 3-5 years and 100k miles. After that, I would not own. Since I am in the habit of driving vehicles with 140-300k miles on them I simply won't own a turbo car of that age.
Not to say they don't make torque. They do that in spades.
I guess I am gonna fuck around and find out, since I already have two vehicles with three of them (turbos) that are both over 100k..
I think we are going to see a significant decrease in the reliability of the internal combustion engine. Low tension piston rings, active fuel management systems and other emissions/fuel economy based modifications used to hit the governments ever-moving targets is not going to help make vehicles reliable or long lasting. Diesels are already at the point where more and more 3/4 ton and above trucks are getting bought with big gas engines because of the expense of the diesel options up front and the eye watering maintenance and repair costs in the long term.
Unfortunately I think we're being herded in the same direction for gas engines due to government regulation. Keeping older vehicles running will likely be a growing trend in the coming years as the government tries to force EVs down our throat.
3/15/2016
Prescient. I wish you were wrong. Gas engines and normal automatic transmissions are incredibly reliable.
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