Yesterday for the first time I saw a claim that the US Army has done some sort of one-shot-stop research. I'm assuming this claim is bogus, but I thought I'd throw out the question here to make sure I'm not off my rocker...Did the Army, in fact, do some sort of one shot stop research? Especially research that shows a higher rate of effectiveness by larger handgun calibers on non center of mass hits?
3/15/2016
Outside of the laughable Thompson-LaGarde "tests"? Not that I ever heard of.
Any study that showed such would be highly suspect IMHO, because the real world info just would not show that, or even with center mass hits. One of the worst things to ever happen to the "stopping power" debate was Cooper's assertion that the .45acp stopped a man 19 times out of 20 with one solid hit.
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Not sure why he undersold it so badly....Originally Posted by Chuck Haggard
What about the "digital man" studies of the 70-80s?
In any case, very poor studies for an organization with such big resources.
That NIJ study, the Air Force one showing a massive increase in "stopping power" via changing to a FP bullet. None of it anywhere close to being in touch with reality.
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The FBI standards in use today are really the first time that anyone has gathered data gathered from decades of actual shootings and looked at them objectively, then converted results to a quantifiable standard and reached conclusions based on that. Except for the importance of shot placement, their work refuted every pet theory in play at the time it was released: Cooper's "19 out of 20" statement, the LaGarde results, the momentum school, and the "light, fast bullets incapacitate through hydrostatic shock" school.
Okie John
After reading Coopers comments, and being somewhat of a fan, I concluded that jack rabbits and the one coyote I shot with 45 auto ball were much tougher than people. It was quite surprising to have jacks get up and run off after body hits with 45 auto ball.
I've seen the same thing myself. It's even more disconcerting when it's a dude with a shotgun who was just clipped through the sternum and really doesn't care.
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That would be profoundly disturbing.
The things I observed shooting game is one reason I carried the 4" 29 so much over time. I always got a pretty noticeable reaction when I shot stuff with it.
Which U.S. Army? There are lots of parts that don't always talk to each other.
I have been involved with U.S. military wound ballistic research since the late 1980's and was a member of the Joint Service Wound Ballistic Integrated Product Team (JSWB-IPT). That group analyzed almost all U.S. military wound ballistic research of the past century--lot's of silly stuff had been tried, but I don't recall anything quite like what you describe. However, there have been some studies that show a larger non-deforming projectile crushes more tissue than a smaller one.
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A friend of mine emptied his JHP loaded .45 Auto 1911 into the the chest of a rifle carrying bad guy inside a house; he was standing there at slide lock while the criminal continued to advance on him while said bad guy raised his FAL to point at my friend's chest. Right about the time my friend thought he was going to die, a teammate came over his shoulder with a 12 ga and put two slugs into the bad guy, ending the fight......
Last edited by DocGKR; 04-30-2015 at 12:20 PM.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
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