New 2 July 2020 SIG P320 Lawsuit and P320 Concerns

[JonInWA]

The fact that both Lwt16 and Texaspoff have expereinced repetitive and apparently systemic QC issues (i.e., the specific lack of QC) is discouraging, to say the least. The problem is compounded by the relative complexity and various small components that comprise the FCU, making it seemingly not to be disassembled/reassembled by the untrained and uninitiated.

What I'm hearing is that it's (the FCU) a relatively complex unit, and that SIG can be unsupportive to their armorers and lacking in replacement components, at least in terms of providing them to trained and certified armorers.

It's been pretty well established that a trained monkee can detail disassemble/reassemble a Glock (hey, I'm a trained and certified Glock monkee!), components are easily available and installable, and the design is simple and robust. While I prefer the ergos of the P320, and the modularity of it (and have personally taken advantage of it), I'm getting leerier and leerier about the platform in general.

Mine will probably be a "one and done" P320 platform comittment. It's a shame HK isn't providing adult supervision to SIG, because I think that a well engineered and well manufactured/QC'd P320 has huge potential to a variety of firearms user niches.

Best, Jon

[RJ]

The fact that both Lwt16 and Texaspoff have expereinced repetitive and apparently systemic QC issues (i.e., the specific lack of QC) is discouraging, to say the least. The problem is compounded by the relative complexity and various small components that comprise the FCU, making it seemingly not to be disassebled/reassembled by the untrained and uninitiated.

What I'm hearing is that it's (the FCU) a relatively complex unit, and that SIG can be unsupportive to their armorers and lacking in replacement components, at least in terms of providing them to trained and certified armorers.

It's been pretty well established that a trained monkee can detail disassemble/reassemble a Glock (hey, I'm a trained and certified Glock monkee!), components are easily available and installable, and the design is simple and robust. While I prefer the ergos of the P320, and the modularity of it (and have personally taken advantage of it), I'm getting leerier and leerier about the platform in general.

As someone whose virtual credit card is hovering over the 'buy' button on a P320 for competition use (having switched to a P365XL for EDC from a Glock 43X), I can't say there's anything in the above I disagree with.

Crap.

PS OTOH maybe now I can buy an optics ready G43X. Geezus my wife will kill me.

[Texaspoff]

Ask him to send me a modern sear (I'll pay if needed so long as it's reasonable) if at all possible. The owner is scared of it in it's current condition due to shot truck seat. I'd like to bring it up to spec for him.

He is checking to see if he has one. If so, I'll get it and we can work out the details on getting it to you.

The fact that both Lwt16 and Texaspoff have expereinced repetitive and apparently systemic QC issues (i.e., the specific lack of QC) is discouraging, to say the least. The problem is compounded by the relative complexity and various small components that comprise the FCU, making it seemingly not to be disassebled/reassembled by the untrained and uninitiated.

What I'm hearing is that it's (the FCU) a relatively complex unit, and that SIG can be unsupportive to their armorers and lacking in replacement components, at least in terms of providing them to trained and certified armorers.

It's been pretty well established that a trained monkee can detail disassemble/reassemble a Glock (hey, I'm a trained and certified Glock monkee!), components are easily available and installable, and the design is simple and robust. While I prefer the ergos of the P320, and the modularity of it (and have personally taken advantage of it), I'm getting leerier and leerier about the platform in general.

Mine will probably be a "one and done" P320 platform comittment. It's a shame HK isn't providing adult supervision to SIG, because I think that a well engineered and well manufactured/QC'd P320 has huge potential to a variety of firearms user niches.

Best, Jon

I do like the 320 platform, but the one word that comes to mind is messy. I feel like there are so many things that could and should be done better. QC being the biggest one. I have no doubt, based on past history, that alot of this has to do with who is leading the company. Kimber traveled along these same lines with the same person driving their bus.


TXPO

[Sammy1]

Wilson Combat have been producing P320 grip modules and now they have their own P320 version. If there was a inherent safety flaw with the P320 I don't think WC would be associated with it.

[HCM]

Wilson Combat have been producing P320 grip modules and now they have their own P320 version. If there was a inherent safety flaw with the P320 I don't think WC would be associated with it.

That is dangerous thinking. They are as fallible as anyone else and there are multiple examples of problematic WC 1911's to prove it. Now WC is known for their customer service as much as their products and they have stood behind and /or replaced those guns but there is no such thing as perfection or omnipotence in the gun world. The original P320 drop safety issues caught Bruce Gray by surprise and he is both an exceptional engineer and gunsmith and one of the contributors to the design of the P320.

WC's core business model is enhanced version of US Service pistols, the 1911, the Beretta and now that the P320/M17 is the standard service pistol it is only logical for WC to support it. I'm a big fan of the WC grip BTW.

Why else did WC get into Berettas ? Because is a platform which is easy to shoot well. What ever it's flaws that is also true of the 320.

As TLG said so well, when it comes to the gun industry, trust no one.

http://pistol-training.com/articles/...rs-perspective

[Texaspoff]

Wilson Combat have been producing P320 grip modules and now they have their own P320 version. If there was a inherent safety flaw with the P320 I don't think WC would be associated with it.

WC despite having their own version of the 320, is still using a factory Sig 320 fire control assembly. Wilson adds their slide, frame, and does some internal tuning if you op for the enhance version, but whatever issues the 320 has, will carry over to the WC version as well.


TXPO

[arooni]

As a new p320 m18 owner (manufacturer date: May 2020) I very much appreciate the existence of this thread. I knew about this issue prior to purchasing but felt it was addressed to my liking, but after reading 20 pages of this, I'm not so sure.

I posted about this issue on sigtalk and sigforums but many people there felt that the lawsuit recently filed was just someone chasing money. I'm glad to see such a substantive discussion.

I'm still a little unclear on whether my manual safety is simply preventing the trigger from moving and/or affecting the internals of the FCU in a way I can't see or experience.

Would forum members who had a M18 of my manufacture date feel comfortable keeping a round chambered (with the safety on)? Why or why not?

Many thanks!

[ccmdfd]

Why else did WC get into Berettas ? Because is a platform which is easy to shoot well. What ever it's flaws that is also true of the 320.

The owner of a LGS, who is probably in is mid to late 60's,told me once that for years and years, Mr Wilson would go to gun shows looking to pay top dollar for Beretta 92 variants. He especially liked the rare ones.

Thus it seems he has had a passion for the 92 for quite some time.

FWIW.

[HCM]

The owner of a LGS, who is probably in is mid to late 60's,told me once that for years and years, Mr Wilson would go to gun shows looking to pay top dollar for Beretta 92 variants. He especially liked the rare ones.

Thus it seems he has had a passion for the 92 for quite some time.

FWIW.

Yup and that passion is the result of positive feed back Bill Wilson received from the Military and because is a platform which is easy to shoot well. When "Mr. 1911" says he can shoot a platform as well as a 1911 it's worth paying attention.

You can hear it from the horse's mouth here:

[KevH]

The owner of a LGS, who is probably in is mid to late 60's,told me once that for years and years, Mr Wilson would go to gun shows looking to pay top dollar for Beretta 92 variants. He especially liked the rare ones.

Thus it seems he has had a passion for the 92 for quite some time.

FWIW.

I've heard the same thing. Bill Wilson is (and has been for decades) a Beretta connoisseur.

I know for a fact that he talked Ken Hackathorn out of his Beretta 92G CQB (a one of a kind Ken did a magazine article about). Ken told me that for trade he had WC build him a custom 9mm Government Model with ivory grips (a gun that I have shot which is unbelievably nice). The specs of that gun became the basis of the "Hackathorn Special" that WC offers.

Ultimately, Bill Wilson is a very successful businessman. He combined personal passion for Beretta with filling a market void and I think it paid off. The P320 has been very commercially successful and I think Wilson saw trend and a market gap to take advantage of that would only require minimal effort on his company's part.