Striker fired appendix carry

[Jay Cunningham]

If you have to ask, I think you know the answer. At least when it comes to shooting yourself in the femoral or worse!

We analyze risk every day, in nearly everything we do. We try to mitigate risk as best we can, but at some point we are willing to accept a certain level of risk for a given capability or function - if it's important enough to us.

[Mitch]

Regarding practicing from somewhere else and carrying aiwb...

If I wasn't comfortable handling a live gun aiwb on a low stress range day or training class, no way would I carry that way. If you're carrying a gun you may have to holster up with a huge adrenaline dump on the worst day of your life.

Just my opinion, and I have no business telling you what to do. But if I won't practice with it, I'm not carrying it.


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[blues]

Keeping one's finger off the trigger and a proper holster go a long way to mitigating the hazards of carry in whatever position one elects. There will always be hazards regardless. Some of your own making, some not.

I've never had to re-holster as quickly as I've had to draw my weapon and I (personally) have never had my finger on the trigger in either situation.

I know this is not applicable unless you are not alone. and if you are alone you probably shouldn't approach anyway... but often when I had pulled a weapon and had to approach and cuff / control someone I deemed a threat, armed or not, I handed my gun to my partner to further reduce the risk. (I'm sure this will be debatable to some but it worked for me.) This was the case whether I carried appendix at that moment or OWB.

[Mr_White]

The devil is really in the details of this subject.

I don't think I could get sufficient draw practice with a blue gun or SIRT - the weight and inertia is too radically different from my real gun. If I practice drawing for ten minutes with my SIRT, my real draw is immediately screwed up. I have the SIRT with the plastic slide; maybe the one with the metal slide would do better in that regard.

I certainly understand a person being uncomfortable with certain activities from certain holster positions live fire. For me, I try to avoid high volume or pressure in drawing and holstering from positions that actually (more on that later) get the gun pointed at me - some sitting positions, or otherwise all crunched up with my legs together. That kind of stuff isn't usually the subject of high volume, time-pressured range practice though.

High volume and high speed live fire practice mostly happens in a standing position, or standing combined with various movements.

I don't believe AIWB as a category can be nailed down to a specific safety level, because I think it depends on what can be subtle interactions between the gun, the holster, and the practitioner that are hard to consider without specific examples. It adds up differently for different people. I'm firmly convinced that running AIWB the way I do it is safer than any of the strong side IWB holsters I've ever used because it involves much less muzzle-body intersection.

An aspect of this I find really interesting are the differing levels of anxiety different people express about whatever carry method with whatever pistol type. If I couldn't generally avert my muzzle from my body, as with a large-wedged Keeper, I might never have started carrying a Glock AIWB. I'm not sure I'd be comfortable enough to carry any gun in that position if I couldn't avert the muzzle. That's what I'm attached to myself. I'm not sure a manual safety, heavy trigger, or hammer would convince me otherwise. But people cobble together safety in AIWB though a combination of various different factors, and my way isn't the only way to get a safe AIWB carry method going.

AIWB can be undertaken safely through various combinations of the factors that make it harder to fire the gun, harder to hit yourself with the bullet, and harder to hit yourself seriously with the bullet. Further, some of these factors require you do something, and others work passively and don't require you to do anything.

Mitigating factors that require you do something:

A. Trigger finger discipline
B. Hard break before holstering
C. Holster slowly and carefully
D. Look the gun into the holster
E. Bow the pelvis forward when holstering
F. Thumb check a manual safety
G. Thumb check a Gadget or hammer

Mitigating factors that don't require you do something:

H. Heavier/longer trigger pull
I. Holster positioned between groin and leg
J. Big pads on the holster that prevent the muzzle from aligning with your body through flesh compression
K. Longer gun/holster will also make it harder for the muzzle to align with your body through flesh compression
L. Minimize clothing and gear near the holster so foreign matter is less available to get into the trigger guard

I lean hardest on A and J, but also on B, C, E, G, I, K, and L. I really prefer to have at least one factor from the second list, because those factors are not as subject to human error.

Finally, here's a clear, visual demonstration of relative degrees of muzzle-body intersection involved in several of the most common circumstances of drawing and holstering in defensive handgun training. Take a look at the following video and see which of the three carry methods of AIWB (wedged), Strong Side IWB, and Strong Side OWB, result in the least muzzle body intersection, when the pistol is drawn while facing downrange and standing still, taking a step laterally left and right, moving dynamically left and right, and moving forward and backward. I counted zero for seven rule two violations from AIWB, four for seven entire leg violations from Strong Side IWB, and four for seven edge-of-leg violations from Strong Side OWB. It's my belief that AIWB done well, can be safer than either of the two common strong side methods, but that all three are within the common standard of care within the defensive handgun training industry/community. Bottom line is that it is difficult for the gun to shoot what the gun is not pointed at, and based on my experience, training, study, and experimentation, AIWB done very carefully can be undertaken even more safely than other much more common, popular, and also perfectly legitimate carry methods when it comes to minimizing the gun being pointed at the user during normal defensive handgun training and practice.

As to a couple of technical points about the video - I used a SIRT and taped the trigger back so the laser was continuously discharging. Knowing that it was the SIRT, I was in SIRT mode, which includes holstering more quickly than I try to holster a real gun. I used a tape line on the floor to keep my starting foot position consistent at about shoulder width apart, and I turned the lights down so the laser would be more visible.

[JCS]

I don't have anything to add about the safety of appendix carry that hasn't been discussed. But outside of pistol forum, the safety practices of appendix carry are appalling at times. I probably shouldn't even have Instagram but I follow a lot of shooters on there and I rarely see anyone re-holster safely. It's terrifying. Idk how it started but the whole, sub second draw, fire, speed reholstering to show the camera your sub second draw on the timer is going to get someone killed. I realize this isn't a p-f thing but there are people appendix carrying who haven't sniffed around p-f. Had I not found this forum I would probably be one of those guys.

I've considered a sirt pistol and will admit it still makes me nervous reholstering a live gun sometimes. I only do it during live fire or competitions.

Gabe, thanks again for sharing the video.

I'll leave with this

[breakingtime91]

So if anyone listens to American warrior society, Ernest Langdon has a gem at the end of his interview about striker fired guns and why he personally moved away from them. Regardless of how you feel (I'm not telling anyone where they should lean) it's worth the listen. If you want the striker fire gem it's happens toward the end, 25 mins or less left in the pod cast.

[Mitch]

So if anyone listens to modern warrior society, Ernest Langdon has a gem at the end of his interview about striker fired guns and why he personally moved away from them. Regardless of how you feel (I'm not telling anyone where they should lean) it's worth the listen. If you want the striker fire gem it's happens toward the end, 25 mins or less left in the pod cast.

Do you have a link? My google-fu is apparently weak.


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[breakingtime91]

Sorry about that

http://americanwarriorshow.libsyn.co...er-and-warrior

[AlwaysLearning]

Deleted as a double.

[Sadmin]

I carry a Glock AIWB, and honestly my solution has been simply to not do much AIWB live fire practice. I do most of my AIWB draw stroke practice in dry fire. At the range, I usually work from an OWB holster of some sort, usually one designed for USPSA or IDPA specifically.

I like this approach since recently I have really ramped up my pistol shooting frequency and taken a concerted effort for a consistent, daily dry fire reginent. I have the issue of mixing sport shooting times / accuracy standards with defensive shooting intentions. Not to get into the carry over discussion but I naively, due to the culture and fun of it, get wrapped up in areas / drills / times, etc.. that I, skill wise, shouldn't be flirting with in live fire. I understand that faster is always better in either context; it's the "while adhering to fundamentals and accuracy" portion I tend to slip in order to hit that sub 5 cold FAST.

I just need to trust the process and stay in the shallow end of the pool for now since its the speed chasing that is causing me pause with respect to AIWB. That coupled with the assured degradation of skill for a real event, dry fire speed draws and live fire accuracy and movement focus sounds like a solid plan for me. I just hope that's a good allocation of time.

I remember 15 years ago when I was soaked in AR fandom, shooting the VTAC 2x2x2 and worried about times. It took me awhile before I was like "what the hell am I worried about this for as a civi, defensively speaking?" There was better ways to allocate my resources, I want to make sure I'm not falling into another version of that.

Tldr: I want to shoot like Gabe, I'm not Gabe.



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