Single Output EDC/Defensive/Utility Lights? I Dont Get It.

[Magsz]

That's a pretty good line and that's the type of post that I was looking for. Thank you.

It hasn't changed my mind on the Modlight products or single stage output lights in general as I still believe we can have our cake and eat it too BUT for anyone else out there on the fence about gear selection, I think we can all agree that there are BETTER mouse traps. Certain tail caps or switching methods just WON'T work and I don't think anyone in here was debating that, at least I sure as shit wasn't. MY personal preference as far as equipment goes for fighting lights is either a gas pedal style tail cap like the Surefire EDCL2 lights or a side mounted mode selector that is PROPERLY designed, ie recessed and not easily accessed UNLESS you want to access it. I have no experience with rotating bezel's regarding output level so I cant comment on that.

As with anything, I really do believe its a training issue. Understand your gear, understand what it can and what it cant do and how to use it. Then go out and train accordingly with it.

You cant make bad gear not suck, especially under stress regardless of how much you've trained with that piece of shit.

[voodoo_man]

@Magsz nothing you posted on the listed requires a low setting. Maybe your cellphone light for stuff like getting stuff done around the house while your wife is asleep but other than that, everything you posted I've done (and likely everyone else has as well) with a full power flashlight without any issues at all.

For wash out, just shine the light slightly away from the item or against another nearby item. Light, is very malleable, it bounces off things and is able to throw itself in weird angles.

As I stated originally, a low setting on a tactical light is, in my opinion, a way for companies to show a high run time hour number.

[NH Shooter]

WARNING!! Flashlight nerd post ahead!

Not to turn this into a Show 'n Tell thread, but I would like to illustrate how today we have the luxury of being able to assemble a light for specific applications - in this case, a hand held light configured specifically for defensive purposes (with or with a handgun).

As already indicated in previous posts, here are the attributes I want in a light for this purpose;

Single output mode. Regardless of the UI, a multi-output light can end up not providing maximum output in that split-second of immediate need.

Blinding output. Most make the mistake of using just the lumens rating for this measure and not consider the rated candela or lux rating (how tightly the lumens are focused in a central hot spot). Being able to "laser" the target's eyes with a column of focused light is a huge benefit. At the same time the column (hot spot) needs to be wide enough to not require precise light aiming and provide enough spill to maintain SA with periphery vision. In terms of absolute ratings I have found that more-is-better, with around 10,000 candela/lux and 600 lumens the minimum I would want for this application.

Simple UI. This is really the most important to me, and as @SoCalDep stated: If you want to be good at fighting get a single-mode light that turns on when you press the tailcap switch and turns off when you release it. Based on spending a day of instruction in the dark using a hand held to engage targets with a pistol, this is truly excellent advice.

Light ergonomics. I had taken both a small (but capable) pocket light and a larger 3-cell light with me to the training. Under the stress of having to clear stoppages, make mag changes, etc. I found the larger light easier to handle and maintain a good grip on.

Built like a hammer. It's gotta be built like a tank to withstand physical abuse, whether that's being repeatedly dropped and hitting the pavement or being used as an impact tool.

Flexible power supply. Can be run on either Li-ion rechargeable cells or ordinary CR123A batteries. Being able to quickly change cells in the field is IMO a requirement.

Based on what I learned, I have since assembled the light below which checks all the boxes for this niche purpose;




Starting from the back of the light;

Surefire "twisty" tailcap. Press the button to turn the light on, let it go to turn it off. If constant-on is needed, twist the tailcap tight to the body. One thing I discovered is that "clicky" tailcap switches can accidently be clicked to constant on, which sucks when I release the button and expect the light to turn off immediately.

Finger lanyard. Amazing how useful this feature is for controlling the light and retaining it when both hands are needed (clearing stoppages, mag changes, etc.). The DIY lanyard is attached to a Raven Concealment clip which due to it's split-ring construction will pull off the light if an adversary gains control of the light with my finger still in the lanyard.

Malkoff MD3 body. Holds two 18500 Li-ion cells or three CR123A batteries, and is long enough to get a full-hand grip on.

Malkoff M91T head. Single mode, 750 lumens/19,000 lux with over an hour of full output run time. The TIR lens focuses most of the lumens into a wide central hot spot while providing adequate spill.

This light rides comfortably clipped in a front pants pocket where it's readily accessible (can also be easily carried in a kydex flashlight holster). If the light needs to be deployed quickly, there is zero doubt what's going to happen when the button is pressed. Yes, it's a niche light but is IMO about as good as it gets for this purpose. When I return to the Sig Academy to take the half-day Low Light Pistol Operator refresher course, this will be the light I'll take.

If all I need to do is find the keys I dropped, a small EDC multi-mode light that rides in the bottom of my pocket is used for that;




I hope you find this post informative.

[blues]

For a pure tactical light, I still like my old Surefire E2e or 6z (both enhanced with Malkoff head or lamp respectively). Button on-off or twist for fully on. No muss no fuss. No clickies.

I also like the compromise offered by the Malkoff Bodyguard lights which switch on high automatically and after 10 seconds revert to a 200+ lumen range.

There is no perfect light for all circumstances. Pick the one or ones that work best for you in the circumstances you anticipate facing.

[CCT125US]

@Magsz nothing you posted on the listed requires a low setting.

How does this jive with wanting to maintain one's adapted night vision?

[Clusterfrack]

I’ve had good luck with using my hand to cover the bezel of a too-bright light. Let a little light leak out as needed, and a 1-mode tac light works ok as a task light. A 1100 lumen light can get hot though.

[Duelist]

I’ve had good luck with using my hand to cover the bezel of a too-bright light. Let a little light leak out as needed, and a 1-mode tac light works ok as a task light. A 1100 lumen light can get hot though.

Or up against your body or arm. Especially just navigating your own dark house without waking up the other occupants, this works very well.

[Duelist]

WARNING!! Flashlight nerd post ahead!

Not to turn this into a Show 'n Tell thread, but I would like to illustrate how today we have the luxury of being able to assemble a light for specific applications - in this case, a hand held light configured specifically for defensive purposes (with or with a handgun).

As already indicated in previous posts, here are the attributes I want in a light for this purpose;

Single output mode. Regardless of the UI, a multi-output light can end up not providing maximum output in that split-second of immediate need.

Blinding output. Most make the mistake of using just the lumens rating for this measure and not consider the rated candela or lux rating (how tightly the lumens are focused in a central hot spot). Being able to "laser" the target's eyes with a column of focused light is a huge benefit. At the same time the column (hot spot) needs to be wide enough to not require precise light aiming and provide enough spill to maintain SA with periphery vision. In terms of absolute ratings I have found that more-is-better, with around 10,000 candela/lux and 600 lumens the minimum I would want for this application.

Simple UI. This is really the most important to me, and as @SoCalDep stated: If you want to be good at fighting get a single-mode light that turns on when you press the tailcap switch and turns off when you release it. Based on spending a day of instruction in the dark using a hand held to engage targets with a pistol, this is truly excellent advice.

Light ergonomics. I had taken both a small (but capable) pocket light and a larger 3-cell light with me to the training. Under the stress of having to clear stoppages, make mag changes, etc. I found the larger light easier to handle and maintain a good grip on.

Built like a hammer. It's gotta be built like a tank to withstand physical abuse, whether that's being repeatedly dropped and hitting the pavement or being used as an impact tool.

Flexible power supply. Can be run on either Li-ion rechargeable cells or ordinary CR123A batteries. Being able to quickly change cells in the field is IMO a requirement.

Based on what I learned, I have since assembled the light below which checks all the boxes for this niche purpose;




Starting from the back of the light;

Surefire "twisty" tailcap. Press the button to turn the light on, let it go to turn it off. If constant-on is needed, twist the tailcap tight to the body. One thing I discovered is that "clicky" tailcap switches can accidently be clicked to constant on, which sucks when I release the button and expect the light to turn off immediately.

Finger lanyard. Amazing how useful this feature is for controlling the light and retaining it when both hands are needed (clearing stoppages, mag changes, etc.). The DIY lanyard is attached to a Raven Concealment clip which due to it's split-ring construction will pull off the light if an adversary gains control of the light with my finger still in the lanyard.

Malkoff MD3 body. Holds two 18500 Li-ion cells or three CR123A batteries, and is long enough to get a full-hand grip on.

Malkoff M91T head. Single mode, 750 lumens/19,000 lux with over an hour of full output run time. The TIR lens focuses most of the lumens into a wide central hot spot while providing adequate spill.

This light rides comfortably clipped in a front pants pocket where it's readily accessible (can also be easily carried in a kydex flashlight holster). If the light needs to be deployed quickly, there is zero doubt what's going to happen when the button is pressed. Yes, it's a niche light but is IMO about as good as it gets for this purpose. When I return to the Sig Academy to take the half-day Low Light Pistol Operator refresher course, this will be the light I'll take.

If all I need to do is find the keys I dropped, a small EDC multi-mode light that rides in the bottom of my pocket is used for that;




I hope you find this post informative.

How much are you into that light? I really like it. It is hitting all of my flashlight nerd buttons.

[voodoo_man]

How does this jive with wanting to maintain one's adapted night vision?

Out door use of a standard flashlight won't kill your night vision, only if you bleach a wall or object directly in front of you.

If your adapted night vision is that important to you, use real night vision devices to assist in those tactical operations which require this level of non-white light use.

[Magsz]

@Magsz nothing you posted on the listed requires a low setting. Maybe your cellphone light for stuff like getting stuff done around the house while your wife is asleep but other than that, everything you posted I've done (and likely everyone else has as well) with a full power flashlight without any issues at all.

For wash out, just shine the light slightly away from the item or against another nearby item. Light, is very malleable, it bounces off things and is able to throw itself in weird angles.

As I stated originally, a low setting on a tactical light is, in my opinion, a way for companies to show a high run time hour number.

Of course I could but why? Simplicity? Reference my earlier post regarding training and proper equipment selection.

I'm all about output, lumens, candela etc but this whole #allthelumens movement should not be an absolute.

Proper technique helps preserve adapted night vision so im not part of THAT camp but once again, while I COULD blast the room, area etc, I choose NOT to because I dont HAVE to.

My KTM motorcycle has riding modes. In rain mode it downgrades the power from 180 horses to something like 100 and increases the traction control setting. Do I need to switch modes? No but I can, so I do when its pissing on me and I want a higher degree of safety. Its not a direct comparison but once again, options that do not have any compelling negatives are always good in my mind.

The only compelling argument anyone has offered is that a poorly designed switching mechanism can result in a light outputting on its low setting when it SHOULD be on high. The key phrase being a poorly designed switching mechanism. So...don't buy a light with a poorly designed switching mechanism.