Tactical Reload is it time to revisit the technique

[LSP552]

I have done the tac reload in IDPA, on the clock, later I've reloaded with the mag that only had 3 or 4 rounds left in it. Not a good habit for a civilian to get into. We didn't do it in the army, I don't know who came up with it but it could get you killed in real life.

That's why most places teach you to not put the used mag back in the pouch, just stash it in your pocket or shove in your belt.

[Soggy]

That has been our experience. We've trained them, they do it.

Ditto, and then weirdly they stopped going to slide lock in shootings and officers were coming back in with a fully loaded pistol and a partial in the back pocket. Strange how that outdated old stuff can actually work like that.

I gave my personal experience with what you're referring to as a "Tac Reload" (partial mag placed in back pocket) in the original thread in the LE section.

I have been trained to do a Tac Reload, placing the mag in my back pocket, since around 1999/2000 and have probably done it in every PD training since then and in 99% of the classes I've attended.

Under stress, in the real world, in the dark, with scary things happening around me, I executed it perfectly without even consciously realizing I was doing it. The copper standing right next to me who had less than four years on as a cop did the exact same thing. That is what training, practice, and pure repetition does.

Neither of us lost a damn thing by doing it and in my case I had three extra rounds of 9mm +P and he had five extra rounds of 40 S&W in his back pocket. Those are more rounds on our person that we had in case we needed it later. I don't like the concept of teaching guys to drop partially loaded mags on the ground. There may be a time and place where that is necessary, but why give up ammo when you don't have to? Teach them to keep it and have them practice it every time they're at the range and it will become second nature.

Thank you for sharing your experiences on tac reloads. If I am reading you correctly a lot of people have been taught how to do it successfully, but as far as you know no one has needed to do it.

As seen in that LEO video, even experienced, highly competent professionals can have an issue with it.

Given the above, I am more comfortable than ever just sticking with what I learned at Rangemaster a couple of months ago, and letting the 1st mag drop free when the 2nd magazine is ready to go in the gun and top it off.

[Redhat]

WARNING: I am a complete n00b with the AR. So I may not know what the hell I'm talking about and my technique may have... issues.

That said, the way I'd tac reload an AR is:

Bring new magazine to right side of the gun. Right index finger is between the new mag and the gun, thumb is on the mag release.

Press mag release, pull out the old mag. Along the way I remove my index finger from its previous position, so I'm just holding the two magazines in the same hand.

Push the new mag in.

Put the old mag away.

(I had my girlfriend take some photos. If necessary, I can post a couple later when I'm at a real computer.)

Like I said, there could be issues with this technique I haven't ran into yet. With my small hands, it's not as simple as holding onto one magazine at the time. But, that's the way I'd do it.

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With your AR, you might try the "L" type also.

[scjbash]

I have done the tac reload in IDPA, on the clock, later I've reloaded with the mag that only had 3 or 4 rounds left in it. Not a good habit for a civilian to get into. We didn't do it in the army, I don't know who came up with it but it could get you killed in real life.

How many civilians are carrying more than one reload? For a civilian I get shoving a mag into a pocket if it's easier, but the vast majority of us are only going to have that partial left so it's not going to get us killed in da streetz if it's put in the pouch.


Edited to add: If you only have one reload, is putting a partial into a pocket a mistake? If I run the gun to slidelock at that point I think I want the reload to be where it always is, not in my pocket.

[KevH]

Thank you for sharing your experiences on tac reloads. If I am reading you correctly a lot of people have been taught how to do it successfully, but as far as you know no one has needed to do it.

I think you said something similar in the other post as well. As I mentioned in that post, I'm sure at some point someone has (probably several have), but I'm can't think of examples off the top of my head. That doesn't mean there aren't any. There are several examples I can give of cops running out or very low on ammo in a firefight, including in my own department. This is why I say dumping live rounds is a bad idea if you don't have to.

This is a fairly recent highly publicized incident:

https://americanhandgunner.com/the-l...f-tim-gramins/

There was a very senior sergeant at my own department when I started who carried four Glock mags on a his belt. I always thought it looked odd until someone one day told me why. You guessed it...he had run out of ammo in a gunfight once.

Most police departments are very hush-hush about OIS's and data is often not shared. There are dozens of OIS's here in the SF Bay Area within 30 min drive of me every year. I only know the facts on a handful of them. Agencies releasing body cam footage is a very recent thing. Just because there aren't a half dozen citable examples of cops using partial magazines from their back pockets doesn't mean that it isn't something that has ever happened and is not a justification for dumping live ammo.

[Pistol Pete 10]

To be honest I never even carry a reload, I was trying to point out that you could go into a situation with a partially loaded mag thinking you had a full load in the gun as I did in the match.
Tac reload is a gaming tactic as far as I'm concerned altho it is a plus to top a gun off saving the partially loaded mag may cause a problem.

[Soggy]

I think you said something similar in the other post as well. As I mentioned in that post, I'm sure at some point someone has (probably several have), but I'm can't think of examples off the top of my head. That doesn't mean there aren't any. There are several examples I can give of cops running out or very low on ammo in a firefight, including in my own department. This is why I say dumping live rounds is a bad idea if you don't have to.

This is a fairly recent highly publicized incident:

https://americanhandgunner.com/the-l...f-tim-gramins/

There was a very senior sergeant at my own department when I started who carried four Glock mags on a his belt. I always thought it looked odd until someone one day told me why. You guessed it...he had run out of ammo in a gunfight once.

Most police departments are very hush-hush about OIS's and data is often not shared. There are dozens of OIS's here in the SF Bay Area within 30 min drive of me every year. I only know the facts on a handful of them. Agencies releasing body cam footage is a very recent thing. Just because there aren't a half dozen citable examples of cops using partial magazines from their back pockets doesn't mean that it isn't something that has ever happened and is not a justification for dumping live ammo.

Maybe everyone should be carrying 4 magazines just in case?

Yes, theoretically the rounds from the partially spent magazine could be needed again, but given DB's experience (and your experience) it sounds like the typically situation is that you don't even need the rounds from the new magazine, let alone the partial. That is a ton of relevant info given how many professional shooters you guys know and have trained.

In the event you do shoot rounds from the second magazine, you would presumably do a second tac reload. Where do you put that 2nd magazine? Next to the first one? Do you train to fit two magazines there? After you use the third magazine - do you shoot to slide lock, or try and remember which of the 3 magazines you have on you has the most rounds, and do a tac reload if it is #1 or #2? Do you train for that situation?

[KevH]

In uniform...

When I carry a single stack gun like a 1911 or P220, I carry four extra mags in a quad mag pouch at the 11:30 position (I'm right handed).

When I carry a double-stack magazine gun like a Glock I carry two spare mags in the same position.

In plain-clothes...

I carry two spare single stack mags or one spare double stack mag at the 9 o'clock.

We practice "shoot until you're dry" where you have to reload with the mag from the back pocket you did a tac reload with every single range training.

Statistically, most officer involved shootings are over in less than a mag...true. Statistically most are also within seven yards or less and occur in low light.

I say most. There are A LOT that require multiple magazines and a decent amount that occur at distances in excess of 25 yards, 50 yards, and I can think of at least three where the officer engaged with a pistol at over 100 yards.

This means you practice and prepare for the worst case scenario because you could easily find yourself to be that outlier. It means you should practice keeping as many rounds on your person as you can and practice shooting at distance and in low light.

If I seem passionate about the subject it is because I am. I don't want to see someone get killed or injured because they dispensed with a valuable practice.

[Soggy]

In uniform...

When I carry a single stack gun like a 1911 or P220, I carry four extra mags in a quad mag pouch at the 11:30 position (I'm right handed).

When I carry a double-stack magazine gun like a Glock I carry two spare mags in the same position.

In plain-clothes...

I carry two spare single stack mags or one spare double stack mag at the 9 o'clock.

We practice "shoot until you're dry" where you have to reload with the mag from the back pocket you did a tac reload with every single range training.

Statistically, most officer involved shootings are over in less than a mag...true. Statistically most are also within seven yards or less and occur in low light.

I say most. There are A LOT that require multiple magazines and a decent amount that occur at distances in excess of 25 yards, 50 yards, and I can think of at least three where the officer engaged with a pistol at over 100 yards.

This means you practice and prepare for the worst case scenario because you could easily find yourself to be that outlier. It means you should practice keeping as many rounds on your person as you can and practice shooting at distance and in low light.

If I seem passionate about the subject it is because I am. I don't want to see someone get killed or injured because they dispensed with a valuable practice.

That sounds outstanding. Thank you for sharing. I admire your professionalism - I really mean that.

If I had your job I hope I would do the same. As a civilian - again, playing the odds - I still think I want to keep it simple. I don't want to have to think about what technique to use in the heat of the moment. For the foreseeable future I really just want to work on getting my gun out and getting shots on target, and then reload as reliably as possible. I am heading out the door to work on that right now. Maybe once I can do "the test" cold and keep everything in the black consistently, I will work on what you describe.

If you'll indulge me I'd like to restate the crux of my concern, and why I've been a bit of a pain in the ass on this: Most folks will not even get training. If they do, they won't practice. People also don't work out and drink to much. That is how they are. Given the fallen nature of man, (and the odds), which of different ways to top off a gun do you think makes the most sense for most people* to learn?

(*not LEO)

[That Guy]

With your AR, you might try the "L" type also.

That sounds like quite a reach for my support hand thumb? (Remember, I was talking about left-handed tac reload. The same hand that holds the magazine has to activate the magazine release.)

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