Bill Drill times ?

[Mr_White]

Ref the Garcia dot drill, the dots they use at Universal seem a tad bigger than 2 inches, and are made with black paint on a cardboard target.

Each time I have been to Universal, the morning has started with the dot drill. I think it emphasizes equal amounts front sight, trigger control, grip and patience. It certainly isn't intended as an accuracy drill, like dot torture, but accuracy/speed.

I've started shooting a lot more Bill Drills at 20+ yards. Talk about nerve wracking.

Longer distance Bill Drills and the FG Dots sure are standouts for working the edge of accuracy at speed.

[JHC]

How do you define a Bill Drill?

Around here it is a D6 Bill Drill from 7 yards, drawing from concealment and getting all A-Zone hits--under 3 sec is the minimum standard, under 2.5 sec is good, under 2 sec would be world class. Best I've done recently is around 2.4 sec using those parameters--irrespective of service pistol or caliber.

Opening it up to something like C-zone steel makes it a bit easier to go faster...

The Bill Drill exposes the weakest link in my shooting. A 2.5 with all A's would make me VERY happy. I've only seen 2.4 - 2.5 a few times, and I don't think all 6 were A's. Relaxed or not I just cannot seem to run a trigger any faster, so I'm just in awe of the 2.0 and under runs. I'm beginning to think I have an aging factor going on in pure trigger speed.

[Mr_White]

The Bill Drill exposes the weakest link in my shooting. A 2.5 with all A's would make me VERY happy. I've only seen 2.4 - 2.5 a few times, and I don't think all 6 were A's. Relaxed or not I just cannot seem to run a trigger any faster, so I'm just in awe of the 2.0 and under runs. I'm beginning to think I have an aging factor going on in pure trigger speed.

What kind of times are you seeing on your draw and splits? And with what gun and holster?

[JHC]

What kind of times are you seeing on your draw and splits? And with what gun and holster?

I can't say for draw to first hit on a Bill Drill but splits best out around .22 but range to .26
Now working singles from draw to one aimed hit can be 1.2 ish.

[GJM]

I consider one shot drills vanity drills, because the times can be fantastic when you can get away with a "one shot" grip!

I know you shoot the Glock, and think its trigger is challenging to shoot fast -- or at least that is the case for me. I started in the mid twenties range, and by just shooting it a lot, moved my Bill split into the .20-.22 range. Occasionally, I see .18 and .19. but can't predict it in advance, and the more I try to be fast, the slower I go. At one point, reading some incredible times here on splits, I decided to just shoot into the berm to work my speed, and got splits slower than my FAST body shots. Once I gave up worrying about splits, they seemed to get faster. I think a contributing factor with the Glock, is I would do lots of one press drills, because of having to reset the slide after each press. With a DA/SA, I go DA first, and then only let the trigger out far enough to press prior to DA, and that gives me practice on working the trigger. An Airsoft pistol, with a reciprocating slide might help, too.

Gabe will probably weigh in, but my recollection is that he is typically in the .18-.20 range on 7 yard Bill splits, with a lot more consistent .18s.

As another data point, a PF member now a GM, told me, as I recall, he didn't shoot splits faster than .20 until he went to the pizza gun. I find the LEM trigger comparable to the Glock, or even a smidge slower for me. I find Sig and Beretta easier to shoot faster splits, and got .18 and .19 from almost the first session on Bill drills. Of course, the Glock is faster to shot one, so it all evens out in the wash.

I doubt it is aging, as we are more or less the same age, and my splits are getting faster. I do believe some people are genetically wired to be faster. I think shooting enough Bill drills to be relaxed helps.

[ToddG]

Of course, the Glock is faster to shot one, so it all evens out in the wash.

How so?

[GJM]

How so?

My time to one shot on an A zone at 7 yards is consistently .10 faster with a Glock than a Sig 226 or Beretta Elite. My open carry personal best times with a Glock, to an A zone at 7 yards are in the 70's and I can do mid 80's on demand all day long. Personal best with a DA/SA one shot draw are mid 80's and typical is mid 90's. Comparing slightly faster splits with the DA/SA in the .02 range times five shots washes out the .10 faster draw. This isn't a single session conclusion, but has been established over the course of several years, on multiple occasions. Hope that proves not to be the case with the CZ, with a significantly lighter DA trigger.

If you think my experience is an anomaly, your man Stoeger said the same thing regarding the speed of the Glock to shot 1, in a recent podcast discussing DA/SA guns versus the Glock.

[ToddG]

Unless it takes you more time to aim & extend the gun than it does to press the trigger, it should take you no more time to score a first hit with a Beretta than a Glock.

[Mr_White]

GJM, do you mean the difference is in the trigger or ergonomics of those different guns?

If the answer is trigger, are you doing a more conventional draw, rather than a press-out, per se, so the time to work the trigger is tacked onto the end?

[GJM]

GJM, do you mean the difference is in the trigger or ergonomics of those different guns?

I suspect some of both. Weight and length of the trigger. Weight and thickness of the pistol.

It has been absolutely evident in my experience going from the Glock to the Sig, back to the Glock, and then to the Beretta in the last two years.

Listen to Stoeger's podcast, and hear it from him.