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Thread: What "Elite" Units/Organizations Currently Use a Single Stack 1911 .45

  1. #51
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    I totally get that there are a thousand critical tasks these warriors have to master in addition to pistol shooting.

    When I referenced the million rounds of .45 in a year I failed to note that figure dates back many years when there were not nearly as many operators as today.
    I friend of mine in NC shoots with some active duty Army NCO's. He's seen their log book where their team was closing in on 30K rounds of 9mm (through Glocks interestingly) for that month. A friend of mine who is former active Army SF but now a Nat.Guard Grp with multiple GWOT deployments, has related how his half strength team went through thousands of rounds of 9mm in a weekend drill; a National Guard unit. And to watch him shoot, yeah, that made sense as he was strong.
    I just think a lot of these guys shoot a lot more pistol than one might suppose. And this volume and the pistol maintenance required or not required is probably a factor in their choice of guns.
    Last edited by JHC; 04-12-2012 at 04:39 AM.
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Especially when you have guys like retired SgtMaj Eric L Haney talking about specifics of their pistol training, and the amounts they shot.
    That book has been discredited and dismissed by just about everyone with personal knowledge of the things purported in its pages.

    Not saying I disagree with your premiss, just that particular source of support.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    And this volume and the pistol maintenance required or not required is probably a factor in their choice of guns.
    That's definitely true. When the SOCOM pistol project was first getting off the ground, they held a meeting in Tampa for industry presentations and feedback. During our segment -- this was before SIG was making 1911s, keep in mind -- there were guys from various SF Groups and SEAL Teams pounding their fists and chanting "1911! 1911! 1911!" figuratively speaking. Then the weapons program manager for a special unit that has great experience with running 1911s in high round count training and deployment scenarios stood up and scolded all of them, explaining how tremendously difficult it was to maintain the guns at a serviceable level.

    His exact quote, as I recall, was "If we HALO five guys behind enemy lines, one of them has to be a full time gunsmith to keep the 1911s running."

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToddG View Post
    That book has been discredited and dismissed by just about everyone with personal knowledge of the things purported in its pages.

    Not saying I disagree with your premiss, just that particular source of support.
    Whoa! Never knew that. So is it as much an abortion as Marshal and Sanow's various writings? Do you have a good review to reference that I could read?

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Do you have a good review to reference that I could read?
    No, but I imagine someone will come along shortly with some Google'able info.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I'd be extremely surprised......as in utterly flabbergasted....if SFOD-D was only shooting 5000 rounds or so per shooter, per year. Especially when you have guys like retired SgtMaj Eric L Haney talking about specifics of their pistol training, and the amounts they shot.

    Every single dude I know from the USMC special operations community ranging from 20 years ago to today, has easily done more than that in a couple days. Talk to anyone who's been through a Stone Bay shoot package. I know people in that community who've shot more than that in their MEUSOC 1911's as part of skills maintenance while in country over a period of 4 months. A fiscal quarter could see 30,000+ rounds through a single MEUSOC 1911.
    I can't speak for most tier 1 units and certainly not SFOD-D, but my brother is in Navy EOD (part of Navy Special Warfare, but shooting people isn't their priority).

    I know that he shoots a ton in their training cycles, more than I shoot in a year, but they do it in a week.

    Then he goes overseas and maybe shoots a couple times on his deployment if they're lucky. So, round count alone may not be a good example, because his skills do degrade based on what he was doing on a timer right after a training cycle and how he shoots upon immediately returning from deployment.

    Again, not really apples to apples as far as a tier 1 "operator", but I imagine they're in the same position of being deployed for long periods of time without much shooting practice.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Whoa! Never knew that. So is it as much an abortion as Marshal and Sanow's various writings? Do you have a good review to reference that I could read?
    Also, going back and reading my post, I think it's only fair to say that I was more than a little hyperbolic. I apologize. It was incorrect for me to suggest that the book is without any factual basis whatsoever. However, among folks I know from the unit, it was not well received both on the basis of its accuracy and obviously for disclosing things that are generally considered confidential.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjohnson4405 View Post
    I can't speak for most tier 1 units and certainly not SFOD-D, but my brother is in Navy EOD (part of Navy Special Warfare, but shooting people isn't their priority).

    I know that he shoots a ton in their training cycles, more than I shoot in a year, but they do it in a week.

    Then he goes overseas and maybe shoots a couple times on his deployment if they're lucky. So, round count alone may not be a good example, because his skills do degrade based on what he was doing on a timer right after a training cycle and how he shoots upon immediately returning from deployment.

    Again, not really apples to apples as far as a tier 1 "operator", but I imagine they're in the same position of being deployed for long periods of time without much shooting practice.
    Very good points. How much you shoot was very dependent on where you were at in the training cycle, what your job was and what specific team you are on. I always seemed to be a staff weenie when all the cool shooting stuff came around, so I was lucky to get out and qualify. This was in the 19th SFGA.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    Whoa! Never knew that. So is it as much an abortion as Marshal and Sanow's various writings? Do you have a good review to reference that I could read?
    Back when it was a current event, Eric Haney the guy and his book got worked over pretty heavily on SOCNET and the ProfessionalSoldiers forum IIRC.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by JHC View Post
    Back when it was a current event, Eric Haney the guy and his book got worked over pretty heavily on SOCNET and the ProfessionalSoldiers forum IIRC.

    Yeah, can't say I hang out on those places. I only did paperwork in the military.

    Just strikes me as odd....I mean, he wrote with a bias towards modesty, and always spoke well of everyone he worked with....no hints of obnoxiousness at all.

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