DA/SA vs SFA vs ... -- 2019 Edition

[Eric_L]

For the past couple of years, I've moved more and more seriously towards DAO (Beretta 92D modded with Wilson Combat, Langdon, Tool Tech, BUSA, and Wolff components) and LEM (HK P30L with V1.5 LEM). There are some compromises (strong hand/weak hand performance with the 92D, slight diminishment in speed/split times with both actions/platforms), but overall, I think both are superb, and ideal for me and my shooting venues. Dagga Boy's discussion on the comparative value of LEM (both regarding it's intrinsic merits and in comparison with other actions) was, and is seminal for me in my decision process. The elimination of the need to de-cock after firing prior to re-holstering in a duty firearm is a key advantage aspect.

Best, Jon

I shoot my Berettas (M9A3 & PX4) much better DA, the first trigger pull.

[feudist]

There's no variation among individuals?

To the best that I've been able to research over the years, these numbers are all anecdotal.

I got interested in motor learning years ago and bought several textbooks over time, slogging through them.

I was hoping to find real vetted methods to improve training. Turns out, there's not a whole lot.

Anders Ericsson popularized the notion that it took 10,000 hours of Deliberate practice to become an expert. He arrived at this using musicians who were self reporting

estimates about their practice sessions. They were guesstimating the amount of time they were really bearing down versus noodling around.

The 5000(or 3000 or 300, it varies) number was pulled out of midair as far as I can tell.

Thing is, the research, such as it is, is based on self reporting by freshmen kids being supervised by grad students...and the task they're training is usually very

simple- free throws or such.

[M2CattleCo]

Legitimate question for those who say DA/SA is too complicated. Do you have an AR15? If so, why? Don't you think you could forget to engage the safety and sling around a cocked rifle with not even a drop safety?

Nope. Been running ARs and 1911s since the beginning. Never missed the safety or forget to safe before hanging or holstering.

I don't think a DA/SA is complicated, I adds complexity for no benefit.

I was in a high stress shooting with a DA/SA and the transition to the SA part threw me. Got rid of it ricky-tick after ten years of it and went SAO. Some people like two radically different trigger pulls on the same pistol, I think it's tom-foolery. One or the other.

[Canyonrat]

If it had been me, I would have ordered everyone to drop the mags out of the pistols, cycle the slides once more, then drop the hammer by pressing the trigger. It's the quickest way to make sure all pistols are unloaded if thats how you want them to be.

If anyone in the class uses a revolver for their main carry and training weapon, pulling the trigger proves nothing other than one slot in the cylinder was not live. Yeah, I know it’s the Semi-Auto forum but a few of us are known to carry revolvers time to time. I only mentioned the oddness to me of the trigger-pull thing as an illustration of the black-box aspect of striker fired mechanisms.

[Alpha Sierra]

To the best that I've been able to research over the years, these numbers are all anecdotal.

I got interested in motor learning years ago and bought several textbooks over time, slogging through them.

I was hoping to find real vetted methods to improve training. Turns out, there's not a whole lot.

Anders Ericsson popularized the notion that it took 10,000 hours of Deliberate practice to become an expert. He arrived at this using musicians who were self reporting

estimates about their practice sessions. They were guesstimating the amount of time they were really bearing down versus noodling around.

The 5000(or 3000 or 300, it varies) number was pulled out of midair as far as I can tell.

Thing is, the research, such as it is, is based on self reporting by freshmen kids being supervised by grad students...and the task they're training is usually very

simple- free throws or such.

That's what I thought. Something someone said on the internet becomes repeated so often that it becomes dogma.

[Alpha Sierra]

I only mentioned the oddness to me of the trigger-pull thing as an illustration of the black-box aspect of striker fired mechanisms.

It has nothing to do with striker fired pistols. It has everything to do with being an ironclad method to making sure a semiauto pistol is completely safe.

[JonInWA]

That's what I thought. Something someone said on the internet becomes repeated so often that it becomes dogma.

I'm pretty sure Todd covered it on a discussion on muscle memory and motor skills. If I have time, I'll do a seach. There are also some extremely credentialed professionals on the forum here who may be able more authoritatively chime in. Best, Jon

[EVP]

I think it is quite simple, people want a trigger that is as forgiving as a LEM or DAO but to be as easy to shoot as a tuned shadow or 9mm 1911. Until then, this discussion always comes back around.

I think many people get too wrapped up in triggers and analyze stuff so much that they perceive it to be a bigger issue then it is. Sometimes I think people just get board because they analyze every minute detail about hardware.

[HCountyGuy]

We’ve been here before...

DB’s Diatribe On Triggers

General Thoughts On DA/SA Triggers

Put me in the camp of hammer-fired, more aptly DA/SA or LEM, having significant safety advantages over SFA designs.

[MGW]

There are a lot of different thoughts going on in this thread. It’s starting to get a little muddled for me.

Random thoughts that apply to me.

I believe that some trigger systems fit some people better than others. For whatever reason one trigger will click with someone better than another. It’s all about feel. I struggle with the wall on striker guns but deal very well with DA. The DA smooths me out and takes away my tendency to anticipate a SF trigger.

If you’re comfortable with the trigger you are using you’re less likely to make mistakes. Decocking a TDA gun feels really natural for me. It’s part of the process of firing a shot. Even during dry fire I will finish my string and decock. Oddly, when I go back to SFA I have to think about not decocking. I’ve tried to hit the decocker on a Glock multiple times. It feels unnatural to holster a pistol without that step.

Switching trigger types can’t happen overnight. Shooting a lot of different actions is asking for trouble especially under stress.

You have to mentally accept the trigger you are carrying. If you are forced to move to something different by your employer you have to accept it and commit to it.

TDA is not less safe than striker. TDA can be shot just as well as striker. TDA takes more practice to stay proficient with than striker. I think most ND’s happen during administrative handling. Doesn’t matter what the trigger type is the startle reflex will cause an ND if your finger is on the trigger.