Underwood .45 ACP and .45 Super Hard Cast in Clear Ballistics Gel

[5pins]

https://www.outdoorlife.com/bear-def...vs-10mm-autos/

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I think I will side with the semi auto on this one.

[QUOTE]

Another guy in New Mexico failed to stop a black bearquickly enough with his 10mm, even with multiple hits. The bear was gnawing onhim when he tried a head shot. The gun jammed. He cleared the jam while thebear continued to dine on his leg and finally killed the bruin. Rescuers had tocut the bear’s jaws off his leg.
[/QUOTE]


What he does not tell you is the guy was using hollowpoint ammo, Hornady Critical Duty IIRC. He also fails to mention that the guyshot 6 rounds before the malfunction, how many rounds does a revolver carry?This may have turned out differently had the guy used some form of non-expandingammo. But lets say the only way to stop the bear was a shot to the head. Inthat case a revolver would not had been any better and instead of clearing a malfunctionhe would have been trying a reload on a single action revolver.

[QUOTE]
Contrast that with my friend, Alaska resident and guideLucas Clark. A large brown bear attacked him. He shot it with his .500 S&W,and the bear fell down and politely died.
[/QUOTE]


Shot placement?

[JHC]

The Alaskan got the better of that argument for sure. Not the best treatment of the topic we've seen here eh?

[03RN]

[QUOTE=5pins;897305]I think I will side with the semi auto on this one.

[QUOTE]

Another guy in New Mexico failed to stop a black bearquickly enough with his 10mm, even with multiple hits. The bear was gnawing onhim when he tried a head shot. The gun jammed. He cleared the jam while thebear continued to dine on his leg and finally killed the bruin. Rescuers had tocut the bear’s jaws off his leg.
[/QUOTE]


What he does not tell you is the guy was using hollowpoint ammo, Hornady Critical Duty IIRC. He also fails to mention that the guyshot 6 rounds before the malfunction, how many rounds does a revolver carry?This may have turned out differently had the guy used some form of non-expandingammo. But lets say the only way to stop the bear was a shot to the head. Inthat case a revolver would not had been any better and instead of clearing a malfunctionhe would have been trying a reload on a single action revolver.

Contrast that with my friend, Alaska resident and guideLucas Clark. A large brown bear attacked him. He shot it with his .500 S&W,and the bear fell down and politely died.
[/QUOTE]


Shot placement?

What kind of malfunction? Sounds like he was close. Was it a contact shot that caused the auto to malf? A 7 shot l frame or 8 shot n frame would have worked.

Maybe if he used solids he'd of reached the vitals in 6 in which case any 6+ gun would of been fine.

[willie]

A heavier mainspring will be more effective than a heavier recoil spring in slowing down slide velocity, though that too needs replacing. Don't overlook a heavier firing pin spring. I would increase the magazine spring weight. One reason is so that the ammo column will rise fast enough to match slide velocity. Don't laugh. That's a factor. Another is that increased upward pressure from a heavier mag spring might retard slide velocity slightly. Has anyone noticed how strong that S&W .45 Shield mag springs are? And that the slide bottom contacting ammo column has machine cut grooves to retard slide velocity. Slide Guide brand of grease has a stiff version. This too would slow down the slide.

[GJM]

Or, you can use an HK USP FS 45, which runs Super ammo without modification.

While I found my 10mm Government models to do pretty well with a modest diet of heavy loads, the 1911 was unsatisfactory for my use as a field gun in Alaska. Heavy, especially for its capacity, small trigger guard, fine controls and trigger for wet or cold hands, pointy exterior, with open areas like the hammer to attract crud.

[willie]

Or, you can use an HK USP FS 45, which runs Super ammo without modification.

While I found my 10mm Government models to do pretty well with a modest diet of heavy loads, the 1911 was unsatisfactory for my use as a field gun in Alaska. Heavy, especially for its capacity, small trigger guard, fine controls and trigger for wet or cold hands, pointy exterior, with open areas like the hammer to attract crud.

I agree that the HK 45 is a much better choice for 45 Super loads. Since the op is an experimenter who will be able to make his 1911 run with heavy loads, the rest of us might consider using another platform for Super ammo.

[OlongJohnson]

I think I will side with the semi auto on this one.

Another guy in New Mexico failed to stop a black bearquickly enough with his 10mm, even with multiple hits. The bear was gnawing onhim when he tried a head shot. The gun jammed. He cleared the jam while thebear continued to dine on his leg and finally killed the bruin. Rescuers had tocut the bear’s jaws off his leg.

What he does not tell you is the guy was using hollowpoint ammo, Hornady Critical Duty IIRC. He also fails to mention that the guyshot 6 rounds before the malfunction, how many rounds does a revolver carry?This may have turned out differently had the guy used some form of non-expandingammo. But lets say the only way to stop the bear was a shot to the head. Inthat case a revolver would not had been any better and instead of clearing a malfunctionhe would have been trying a reload on a single action revolver.

What kind of malfunction? Sounds like he was close. Was it a contact shot that caused the auto to malf? A 7 shot l frame or 8 shot n frame would have worked.

Maybe if he used solids he'd of reached the vitals in 6 in which case any 6+ gun would of been fine.

If this is the one I remember reading about, there was one or more contact or near-contact shots after they got tangled up. Some bear fur got stuck in the gun (barrel-to-slide lockup, maybe?) and kept the slide from returning to battery.

That might be a reason to go with a regular USP 45 FS for outdoors use instead of a version with an O-ring, if you're someone who ponders that question. Some of the other dimensions lead to a thou or two more clearance here and there on the regular model as well; H&K personnel have recommended the regular FS over O-ringed versions for ultimate hard-use, hard-environment reliability.

Although the magazine holds fewer rounds, a G20 feels like a 2x4 in my XXXL hands. A USP 45 FS is just right, and I expect to get a first accurate round on target faster with a USP than with a Glock in general. I'm a weirdo, though. The USP still holds 62.5 percent more rounds than an 8-shot N-frame .357, and 116.7 percent more than a six shooter. Being able to go back and forth between HST and Super by swapping mags doesn't suck.

----------

Back to the original post, did anyone else notice that the +P rounds still had powdercoating where the lands rubbbed, but the land areas on the Super bullets were shiny lead? I'm wondering how many rounds it would take to lead up the lands in the barrel.

Reminds me of Berry's advice about limiting velocity with its standard plating; they sell thick-plated bullets for faster loadings.

Comparing the hard cast to Underwood's pics of the 230gr Gold Dot, it looks like the GD has a wider nose than the hard cast's meplat. My understanding is that in general, a wider meplat with sharper edges leads to greater wounding effects.
https://www.underwoodammo.com/collec...18785711423545
Seems like if you were in charge of a bullet design, having the exact same profile as a GD in a hard cast flat nose would make some sense. If a gun is vetted with GDs, the shape of the bullet at least wouldn't be a reason for it to have issues.

[Jeep]

Or, you can use an HK USP FS 45, which runs Super ammo without modification.

While I found my 10mm Government models to do pretty well with a modest diet of heavy loads, the 1911 was unsatisfactory for my use as a field gun in Alaska. Heavy, especially for its capacity, small trigger guard, fine controls and trigger for wet or cold hands, pointy exterior, with open areas like the hammer to attract crud.

As a penalty for irritating my troop commander, I spent some quality time one very cold February in the mountains a bit southeast of Fairbanks. My view is that the small 1911 trigger guard alone disqualifies it in very cold weather. Basically you want the largest trigger guard possible so you can have a glove that is large enough to keep your trigger finger from freezing. But, of course, in February you don't need to worry about bears. (Wolves? Oh yeah--you definitely need to worry about them--they're real hungry in February)

[Tokarev]

As a penalty for irritating my troop commander, I spent some quality time one very cold February in the mountains a bit southeast of Fairbanks. My view is that the small 1911 trigger guard alone disqualifies it in very cold weather. Basically you want the largest trigger guard possible so you can have a glove that is large enough to keep your trigger finger from freezing. But, of course, in February you don't need to worry about bears. (Wolves? Oh yeah--you definitely need to worry about them--they're real hungry in February)

Wasn't a large trigger guard something spec'ed out for the M9 back in the day?

Glock also has a very small trigger guard. One of the reasons I wonder why the gun has such worldwide acceptance.

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[JAD]

I wonder if gloves that would be helpful in Fairbanks in February would preclude shooting just about anything. One forum member has written about wearing under gloves with snowmobile mitts that he practices throwing off quickly.