Active Shooter Uvalde TX Elementary School

[AMC]

One early morning about 0330 hours we had a hostage barricade in a small one bedroom/two room apartment with two females and three kids locked in a bedroom with the drugged suicidal male outside in the family room area threatening to break down the door and kill them all. Intel was he was armed with a 1911. Dispatch was on the phone with one of the victims. The Officers there were mostly new with a newer LT. They basically had set up a firing line perimeter and the LT had no plan to make entry if shooting started inside. LT believed it didn’t meet protocols for an active shooter entry.

One of my K9 partners was already on-scene, he had notified the SWAT commander and the callout was getting started. When I got there I started gearing up for an entry. I talked to my partner who was putting on his heavy stuff too. We were basically going to ignore the patrol LT and move up to LCC (last cover and concealment) and make entry if the suspect started shooting or breaching the bedroom door. We had one other SWAT guy who was a lateral from another agency that was going to go with us. So basically three of us were planning on telling the patrol LT to fuck off based on tactical being on the way and do a small HRT if needed.

As we were moving up to where we were going to stage the suspect exited the apartment, complied, and was taken into custody so it all ended up being a moot point. The debrief was heated. The patrol LT and the Sergeant still were arguing it wasn’t an active shooter in a public place and they wouldn’t have made entry if the suspect started shooting victims. We argued it was and we weren’t willing to have five victims shot and killed while we stood outside. There was another LT there who agreed with us but he wasn’t in charge. So it’s possible to have someone in charge who’s willing to let five people die because it’s not policy.

This was a pretty specific incident where the details allowed a very fast response on entry. From the layout we probably could’ve engaged the suspect when the door was breached. We were also aware we were looking at some possible bad times for not listening to the IC.

Did you guys not utilize the concept of 'Crisis Entry' at that point? Even for our patrol guys, much less SWAT, that would be considered a homicide in progress. We don't stand around and wait at that point. Just because it's not an 'Actove Shooter' doesn't mean it's not homicide.

I've pushed back on Lieutenants in simular circumstances, and also pulled back on the reigns and said 'No....we're not doing that' when one wanted to make a crisis Entry on what was clearly a bullshit call. It's important to be right.

[Coyotesfan97]

Did you guys not utilize the concept of 'Crisis Entry' at that point? Even for our patrol guys, much less SWAT, that would be considered a homicide in progress. We don't stand around and wait at that point. Just because it's not an 'Actove Shooter' doesn't mean it's not homicide.

I've pushed back on Lieutenants in simular circumstances, and also pulled back on the reigns and said 'No....we're not doing that' when one wanted to make a crisis Entry on what was clearly a bullshit call. It's important to be right.

Yes we do. That was discussed and IIRC the response was basically they didn’t think they had the Officers with the experience to do it. Plus they didn’t seem to think they could justify it. Our response was you have to deal with the crisis with what you have. So I guess there were two issues one being they didn’t think they could justify an entry and two being they didn’t think they could do it with the patrol on-scene. It was dealt with through our chain of command to the patrol division. We had nothing come back on us and we pissed off a LT and a Sergeant.

I guess my point is if you have the meat eaters there and they know they can justify it shit will get done. You just have to be aware there will be ramifications. If we had started to make entry and the LT had told us to stop the train would’ve kept rolling. I’d have framed the complaint next to the life saving award.

[UNM1136]

the response was basically they didn’t think they had the Officers with the experience to do it. Plus they didn’t seem to think they could justify it...<snip>

one being they didn’t think they could justify an entry and two being they didn’t think they could do it with the patrol on-scene. It was dealt with through our chain of command to the patrol division. We had nothing come back on us and we pissed off a LT and a Sergeant.

sing on, brother

I guess my point is if you have the meat eaters there and they know they can justify it shit will get done. You just have to be aware there will be ramifications. If we had started to make entry and the LT had told us to stop the train would’ve kept rolling. I’d have framed the complaint next to the life saving award.

Let that train roll.

I can be a Walmart greeter for the rest of my life, if it came to that. But I could not sleep knowing I had the chance to intervene in a homicide (@ AMC) and didn't try to prevent it.

You can be hung for trying, or you can be hung for not trying. Getting hung isn't the issue. Trying to save lives is.

pat

[AMC]

Let that train roll.

I can be a Walmart greeter for the rest of my life, if it came to that. But I could not sleep knowing I had the chance to intervene in a homicide (@ AMC) and didn't try to prevent it.

You can be hung for trying, or you can be hung for not trying. Getting hung isn't the issue. Trying to save lives is.

pat

When we originally taught First Responder/Active Shooter tactics years ago, we very much emphasized the ethic (including to supervisors/managers going through the training) "Lead, Follow, or get the F#$k out of the way!"

That does not appear to be the ethic taught anymore for Active Killer response.

[UNM1136]

When we originally taught First Responder/Active Shooter tactics years ago, we very much emphasized the ethic (including to supervisors/managers going through the training) "Lead, Follow, or get the F#$k out of the way!"

That does not appear to be the ethic taught anymore for Active Killer response.

Very much agreed...

pat

[BaiHu]

Just when you thought Uvalde could get worse.
BREAKING: A rifle-armed Uvalde officer sighted in to shoot the Robb Elementary attacker before he entered the school but instead waited for supervisor permission -- one of many new revelations in a report obtained today by national experts about the May 24 police response.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

I’m not going to defend the lack of police response. However I think the broader context of the BLM anti police movement, and widespread political support for it set the stage for this debacle. When every law enforcement officer feels like the criminal and civil crosshairs are following them and any use of force could put them in prison and bankruptcy, what do we expect?

If we want meat eating LEOs who will shoot when they perceive a lethal threat, we need to support that with training, and also with legal and political protection for them.

[Hambo]

When every law enforcement officer feels like the criminal and civil crosshairs are following them and any use of force could put them in prison and bankruptcy, what do we expect?

I'd rather take my chances with that than not take the shot and watch the replay my dot on the shooter for the rest of my life.

[idahojess]

Here is the link to the actual report from the Alerrt center:

https://www.alerrt.org/

(Have to download it).

[Joe Mac]

Just when you thought Uvalde could get worse.
BREAKING: A rifle-armed Uvalde officer sighted in to shoot the Robb Elementary attacker before he entered the school but instead waited for supervisor permission

Well...that's ridiculous. As I told my guys countless times as a patrol sergeant, when they'd call me for permission to stuff a door: if you think you have time to ask me, you either don't have exigency, or you're dicking around when you should be through the door already.