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Thread: I don't think an AR is the answer....

  1. #1

    I don't think an AR is the answer....

    I polluted Rob S' thread on what AR to recommend to post Orlando panic buyers, and decided I should just start a new one.

    I love long guns. In Alaska, I walk around with a long gun in my hands almost daily. Nobody thinks twice about someone walking around with a long gun around here.

    However, in urban areas, for non LE I see the role of a long gun almost exclusively for home defense, and in a very limited number of situations outside your home. For a non LE person, I just don't see carrying a long gun around in the vehicle as very useful. You have to protect it from being stolen. It is added weight to carry in and out of the hotel room. It may not sit well with LE if you get pulled over. And, in an Orlando type situation, you will almost certainly be fighting with the gear that is on your body.

    Not sure about you, but I don't want to be the dark haired male, not in uniform, grabbing my long gun and heading into a shooting situation, as it seems like a good way to identify yourself as a shoot target to an active shooter, law enforcement or a concerned citizen.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  2. #2
    That is often my answer to people when they talk about trunk guns and getting back to one to engage a shooter.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    Perhaps you are asking the wrong question?

    I have no delusions of glory by being the hero with the AR who rushed in to save the day. That is not why I carry a gun. Having done some pretty sway-lay shit with nothing but a pistol, spare mags, and a hand grenade....... The recurring theme of "we should have shotguns for this shit" is not nearly as amusing as the line in the movie.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter PNWTO's Avatar
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    These conversations can often go ,"If you give a mouse a cookie..."

    You are going to have what you have, period. If you leave the facility/target to retrieve your long gun, then your E&E worked... why go back in? Especially when first responders are blazing in. The proper mindset paired with training and communicated through a handgun can get one very far.
    "Do nothing which is of no use." -Musashi

    What would TR do? TRCP BHA

  5. #5
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    That is but one scenario. If you change the scenario, the answer to the question changes with it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    That is but one scenario. If you change the scenario, the answer to the question changes with it.
    Sean, can you elaborate -- I am sure many would be interested in your detailed thinking?
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #7
    It depends on the circumstances and situation.

    One guy out in a rural strip mall? Yeah any long gun would be the answer.

    One guy in a dense urban setting? LE will be all over in a matter of minutes.

    Several guys in a dense urban setting? Maybe taking up a position to take some shots if they were to come your way?

    Depends on LE response too, while it may have been sufficient in Orlando it may not be in the next situation, like in the north Hollywood shootout.
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  8. #8
    For a civilian: I think the idea of leaving the scene, retrieving a long gun, and running back into an area where police are incoming looking for someone with a long gun is unwise.

    The phrase "gun in hand equals gun in use" can end up with the wrong person getting shot.
    Last edited by warpedcamshaft; 06-13-2016 at 10:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Member John Hearne's Avatar
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    Shut up and do what Paul Howe says: http://panteao.com/product/civilian-...tive-shooters/

    To summarize: Carry enough pistol be able to hit longer distances (Glock 19 v 26 or Keltec 32), try to escape, keep your gun holstered until you see the bad guy, deal with bad guy from cover if possible, reholster and continue to leave.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    Shut up and do what Paul Howe says: http://panteao.com/product/civilian-...tive-shooters/

    To summarize: Carry enough pistol be able to hit longer distances (Glock 19 v 26 or Keltec 32), try to escape, keep your gun holstered until you see the bad guy, deal with bad guy from cover if possible, reholster and continue to leave.
    Part of Howe's handgun operator class was 50-80 yard shots on A-zone steel from cover if I remember the distance and target correctly. The idea was effective precision fire down hallways vs active shooters.

    Love me some Paul Howe. Very down to earth, practical, and professional.
    Last edited by warpedcamshaft; 06-13-2016 at 10:19 AM.

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