What makes a Glock so shootable

[spinmove_]

Lol, don’t be a d*** about things and people won’t call you out.

Um...what? Are you reading the same thread I am? Where am I being a dick? I’m simply interpreting what I heard on a podcast.

[Surf]

When I first saw the Gen 5 magwell, the first thing that popped into my mind was either a post here or a video I'd seen of you showing how you did your Glock magwells.

Since the thread is the shoot-ability of Glock's...

Over the years and over a couple of forums I've seen some of your comments concerning the G17 vs G34. I believe some of the older stuff showed your preference for the G34, but I think it is more recent stuff showed a preference for the G17? True?

I started with G27 as a BUG in the early 90's. I didn't get serious with Glock until I got into a Gen 3 G34 as that was the competition shooters Glock of choice. I did well with it, however, I did not prefer the grip size of the Gen3's and I hated the finger grooves, still do. With not large hands, the trigger reach sucked and the finger grooves exacerbated the issue, so what do you do to a cheap piece of polymer? Fix it. I got deep into Glocksmithing, frame mods, trigger enhancements, moving trigger pin placement, reshaping engagement angles, etc. Years later and to this day some guys really took the frame mods into an art form.

I was excited about the Gen4 primarily due to the reconfig of the grip size. So I got one of the first serial run Gen4 G17's which most of my past videos highlighted. Over thousands upon thousands of rounds fired, video analysis, tracking results on the accuracy, timer, etc, I noticed a distinctive pattern, even comparing pistols back to back. It was clear that for me the G17 stayed flatter on its recoil phase, primarily on the negative camber or downward dip of the muzzle vs the G34. I took the extended mass of the G34 slide length as a negative and the G34 had more downward or negative dip and the 17 performed better, for me.

I took this one step further with the G19 in that I felt the shorter slide was more controllable, but the big negative was the size of the grip and the incorrect or terrible placement of the hump on the backstrap. Relatively speaking the G17 and G19 hump is in a different location on the palm. Even hacking it up and reshaping, I could never get it as good as the 17 sized frame. I was asking guys at Glock for a G19 slide on a G17 frame for years. Better late than never.

I worked on several products that went to the aftermarket, and I had close ties to certain Glock people. We continuously bounced ideas around and many of us harped on finger groove and magwell improvements and cleaning up the molding process and how that affected the magwell area when it cooled. I know the complexities of Glock production and the feasibility of new products and models, so Glock moves slowly for a reason.

[JTQ]

... so what do you do to a cheap piece of polymer? Fix it.

Since a forum member asked me, some may not have seen the video's. Here are two I found. If you have more, the folks would probably enjoy them.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b9M3UGkgDI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLTs0gIaSt4

[GJM]

I started with G27 as a BUG in the early 90's. I didn't get serious with Glock until I got into a Gen 3 G34 as that was the competition shooters Glock of choice. I did well with it, however, I did not prefer the grip size of the Gen3's and I hated the finger grooves, still do. With not large hands, the trigger reach sucked and the finger grooves exacerbated the issue, so what do you do to a cheap piece of polymer? Fix it. I got deep into Glocksmithing, frame mods, trigger enhancements, moving trigger pin placement, reshaping engagement angles, etc. Years later and to this day some guys really took the frame mods into an art form.

I was excited about the Gen4 primarily due to the reconfig of the grip size. So I got one of the first serial run Gen4 G17's which most of my past videos highlighted. Over thousands upon thousands of rounds fired, video analysis, tracking results on the accuracy, timer, etc, I noticed a distinctive pattern, even comparing pistols back to back. It was clear that for me the G17 stayed flatter on its recoil phase, primarily on the negative camber or downward dip of the muzzle vs the G34. I took the extended mass of the G34 slide length as a negative and the G34 had more downward or negative dip and the 17 performed better, for me.

I took this one step further with the G19 in that I felt the shorter slide was more controllable, but the big negative was the size of the grip and the incorrect or terrible placement of the hump on the backstrap. Relatively speaking the G17 and G19 hump is in a different location on the palm. Even hacking it up and reshaping, I could never get it as good as the 17 sized frame. I was asking guys at Glock for a G19 slide on a G17 frame for years. Better late than never.

I worked on several products that went to the aftermarket, and I had close ties to certain Glock people. We continuously bounced ideas around and many of us harped on finger groove and magwell improvements and cleaning up the molding process and how that affected the magwell area when it cooled. I know the complexities of Glock production and the feasibility of new products and models, so Glock moves slowly for a reason.

What is interesting, is when shooting a Glock with a dot, I find the short slide visually seems to shoot flatter than a longer slide. However, I do much better in matches shooting a 34 with a dot, that a shorter slide Glock. In addition, the best Glock shooters, with and without a dot, like Shane Coley, Dave Sevigny, Robert Vogel and many others, all use a 34/35 length slide Glock in competition.

[HCM]

[TGS]

This thread is surely interesting given the explosion of interest in the Staccato-P as if it's the gun hitting the market is akin to the discovery of a new primary color.

[HCM]

This thread is surely interesting given the explosion of interest in the Staccato-P as if it's the gun hitting the market is akin to the discovery of a new primary color.

One thing the 1911/2011 and the Glock share in the “shootability” Department is a grip with flat sides. Likely a a factor in the USPC vs P2000 shootability as well.

The 2011 is strong in one of the Glocks weaker areas - the trigger. No just the weight, but the shape /movement of a sliding trigger in attack vs a fulcrum trigger.

[gomerpyle]

The flat sides allow for ease of indexing, the flat front strap encourages a grip where pressure is directed from the front strap to the backstrap, and the sheer volume of the grip itself easily fills the hands, minimizing the possibility of slippage during recoil. I see the perceived disadvantages of the 2X4 grip as favorable features.

What's more, the ease of maintenance and breakdown allows the user to install a better trigger

[Surf]

What is interesting, is when shooting a Glock with a dot, I find the short slide visually seems to shoot flatter than a longer slide. However, I do much better in matches shooting a 34 with a dot, that a shorter slide Glock. In addition, the best Glock shooters, with and without a dot, like Shane Coley, Dave Sevigny, Robert Vogel and many others, all use a 34/35 length slide Glock in competition.

I am not a competition shooter, so I don't have that exact frame of reference, but I run all the qualifiers for about everything not too mention many skills drills continuously and use these benchmarks to help track performance. I have been revisiting the red dot and running one on a G19 for about the past 6 months. Getting the hang of the dot. I just started playing with the G45 and I am running that pistol very well, and I am planning on picking up an MOS version shortly.

This is just for me, but I have found over the years that my performance numbers (splitting hairs) is better with the 17 over the 34, and the G19x and G45 that I have been shooting, and the 19 with a dot has been crushing many of my benchmarks, even back to back with all models.

This is one example, that may not be as relevant in competition, but where I see the biggest difference in 19 to 17 to 34, is in longer very rapid strings of fire, in say a bill drill. When pushing top speeds in longer strings of fire, I get much more muzzle whip and negative camber on recoil the longer the slide gets. I do better with the 45 over the 19 which is no doubt due to the tuning of the Gen5 but also the G17 grip size. Again this may not be as relevant in competition.

No questioning top Glock shooters like Sevigny and Vogel and the slew of guys/gals running 34's in competition and my opinion is not along those lines. Sevigny is who got me into the Glock game and the G34, so I definitely admire the skills. I know Shane is Glock but he has an interesting take on the G45 that mirrors my experience. I don't think he will start competing with it any time soon however.

[MGW]

I am not a competition shooter, so I don't have that exact frame of reference, but I run all the qualifiers for about everything not too mention many skills drills continuously and use these benchmarks to help track performance. I have been revisiting the red dot and running one on a G19 for about the past 6 months. Getting the hang of the dot. I just started playing with the G45 and I am running that pistol very well, and I am planning on picking up an MOS version shortly.

This is just for me, but I have found over the years that my performance numbers (splitting hairs) is better with the 17 over the 34, and the G19x and G45 that I have been shooting, and the 19 with a dot has been crushing many of my benchmarks, even back to back with all models.

This is one example, that may not be as relevant in competition, but where I see the biggest difference in 19 to 17 to 34, is in longer very rapid strings of fire, in say a bill drill. When pushing top speeds in longer strings of fire, I get much more muzzle whip and negative camber on recoil the longer the slide gets. I do better with the 45 over the 19 which is no doubt due to the tuning of the Gen5 but also the G17 grip size. Again this may not be as relevant in competition.

No questioning top Glock shooters like Sevigny and Vogel and the slew of guys/gals running 34's in competition and my opinion is not along those lines. Sevigny is who got me into the Glock game and the G34, so I definitely admire the skills. I know Shane is Glock but he has an interesting take on the G45 that mirrors my experience. I don't think he will start competing with it any time soon however.

I’m still subscribed to your new YouTube channel. I would love it if you would start putting out videos again. Any chance of seeing something from you on the G45?