Human Targets

[David S.]

Darryl, would you mind posting your 2-second standards? I'm sure a lot of us would enjoy trying them, practicing them, or just enjoying your frame of reference.

What I recall from their April class.

Draw from concealment, how many shots can you land in the black of a B8 in two seconds every time, guaranteed? More shots is obviously better, but a missed shout (outside black) is a fail. You can do this at any distance. You establish a personal cadence (standard) for that distance.

Thanks for reminding me: I need to get back and work on this.

[Mr_White]

What I recall from their April class.

Draw from concealment, how many shots can you land in the black of a B8 in two seconds every time, guaranteed? More shots is obviously better, but a missed shout (outside black) is a fail. You establish a personal cadence (standard) based on that distance.

Thanks for reminding me: I need to get back and work on this.

Thank you! What was the distance?

[David S.]

Thank you! What was the distance?

Someone needs to come through with better data.

I seem to recall they ran it at 3 and 5 yards. I can't remember if they ran it at 7 or 10 yards. I seem to recall I scored 3-4 rounds at 3 and 5 yards, but I ran the class unconcealed, non-retention holster.

[1slow]

Thank you! What was the distance?

If I understood Darryl it can be any distance. I believe Wayne Dobbs has run it at very long pistol range. What you can do in 2 seconds at various ranges is the standard, whether 3 yards or 100 yards. I believe it is done from low ready.

[Dagga Boy]

It is an drill with no particular set of standards, but more like guidelines to establish an individual level of performance.

The idea is based on gunfights tending to be two second operations with one side winning and one losing inside that timeframe. Any longer and parties are tending to move and start new two second affairs from different positions. So, we set the timer for 2 seconds. Target....the black of a B8 bull. Anything shots outside of the black and the test is a fail. So how much work can you do at 100% accountability everytime in two seconds. Any range, any ready, from ready, from concealment, two hands, one hand, with a flashlight, stationary, moving, doesn't matter. We test everything on it. What you are testing is use of real world time and 100% accountability.

We usually run it from 3-5 yards as typical fighting engagement distance with handguns. We have done walk backs. Best to date, Wayne and I both hit black from a low ready in under two seconds at 25 yards....and we left the range and ate Chicken fried steak platters....not because Wayne did it, but because that was likely the only time I was going to pull that off. We let people run it at full speed. Usually they cannot stay 100% hits, so we dial that back to find a pace they can hit with easy accountability at so the understand how "to drive on the tollway at 70 mph versus 150". At 150, there is very little room for error and it is easy to crash if any little thing goes wrong....like a item falling out of the truck in front of you. We demo too fast .......which led to my best performance ever of 11 hits in the black in under 2 seconds at five yards with a P30 TLG LEM during a demo in front of a full SWAT team.....which will also not happen again. My normal is around 6 from low ready in 100% control and accuracy. Wayne is around 8. Everybody will be different. Tom Givens ripped a 6 round in under two seconds with a Glock 35 from an IWB holster. Wayne and I just looked at each other in awe and said "did he just do a sub two second Bill Drill?". Tom is awesome.....and scary. Other students, if we can get them to make 1 hit in 2 seconds it is a major success. Everyone is different and instead of trying to compete with others or pushing to how fast other people are, we try to establish how fast YOU are with 100% guaranteed hits. It is to build a disciplined, accountable clock, and emphasize hits to the area we believe is the most likely to result in incapacitation and cessation of hostilities. It is also a good test bed for all that is new and amazing. "High Ready is faster than low ready"......no, it isn't, at least not for anyone we have found on the standards. Want to test a holster, sights, or whatever, run the standard. It makes for an easy gauge that is individual directed and is not designed for trying to max, but to try to find your 100% accountable speed, and then hammer the reps in to make your brain understand what that is. It is to build auto-pilot cruise control discipline.
We also use it for many classes to show why we teach the methodology we do. I'll have Wayne really run a fast one of 8-9 rounds all delivered in the black in less than two seconds. Impresses the students...looks awesome, is totally controlled and surgical......and then I have him shoot a failure drill with the first two in the bull and the third in the eye box in far less time. I simply ask the class "ladies and gentleman of the jury" to set the context of how the public perceives force and does not understand time. Those 8-9 surgically delivered rounds would be considered "overkill" by most, yet were delivered in a time little more than it takes for a human to actual crumple (1.31 seconds from Force Science). Yet, three rounds with an almost guarantee can be done in that time frame. 3 always looks better than 9....no matter where the rounds go, unless it's the back, which is another whole thread.

We are trying to train non-emotional, disciplined shooters with a fixed internal Hardwired clock that can work when the brain is warping time. It is simply a goal based on our experience. Wayne's initial work on this is how we became such close friends and our correspondence when Wayne came up with it. We spent a solid six months refining and testing it. Obviously, having us deliver the instruction and a ton more context in the full class is better than this blurb on a forum post, but being it was asked...

I will give a goal for those who like to best things.....a few training days back we were almost done shooting. Wayne was on one of his shooting God days that is awesome to watch, but makes me have self esteem issues. We always try to finish on something hard. Wayne says "50 yards?". I said "sure", so he of course changes his mind and says, let's do a 100 with his devious happy grin. So Wayne starts going to a 100 while I was loading a last magazine and he yells back "bring the timer". I was like "WTF. Does he want the timer for?", but simply grabbed it and began walking to 100 (for GJM...yea, an actual timer, not the Rolex). I get to a hundred and Wayne says "I want to run the 2 second standard at a 100 yards". I am sure I made a baffled face. So.......we set the timer. Wayne is going to use a 12"x12" hanging steel plate. He raises his VP9 a couple times from a slightly depressed low ready and dry presses on it, loads and says "run it". I hit the start button, and Wayne delivers a single hit in 1.5 seconds. It was literally the absolute most impressive display of mastery of the pistol I have ever seen. We shot some more (I used the special needs full silhouette steel), and left for a delicious celebration in food reward.

[Tamara]

It is an drill with no particular set of standards, but more like guidelines to establish an individual level of performance.

The idea is based on gunfights tending to be two second operations with one side winning and one losing inside that timeframe. Any longer and parties are tending to move and start new two second affairs from different positions. So, we set the timer for 2 seconds.

So, this is a drill intended to be a measure of predicted success in a gunfight, rather than an abstract measurement of a set of pistol-handling skills?

{I am deliberately being provocative, here, because I love the people in this thread. }

[Mr_White]

Thanks for all that explanation Darryl, that is great!

[BCL]

It is an drill with no particular set of standards, but more like guidelines to establish an individual level of performance.....

So much win in this post, thanks DB!

[Dagga Boy]

So, this is a drill intended to be a measure of predicted success in a gunfight, rather than an abstract measurement of a set of pistol-handling skills?

{I am deliberately being provocative, here, because I love the people in this thread. }

And why you are my favorite internet person.

I figure by next week Mr. White will have a video of himself running an obstacle course in 2 seconds shooting 100 yard steel plates.....one handed.

[GJM]

And why you are my favorite internet person.

I figure by next week Mr. White will have a video of himself running an obstacle course in 2 seconds shooting 100 yard steel plates.....one handed.

I am pretty sure he is dry firing this at home tonight.