Competition Bad Habits? Do any exist? Competing Anonymously possible?

[Wake27]

I wonder why there's a good number of tier 1 trainers who compete, competed in their younger years, and/or recommend their students do so?

"Action shooting sports are a tremendous benefit to any shooter. They were actively encouraged and supported when I was at JSOC for that very reason. We weren't worried about someone coming back with bad habits. The only habits they were going to come back with were good shooting habits. "

https://youtu.be/N_BwbEz8CU4

This is my issue with this thread. So many of you seem to be making this into something it isn’t. I’ve never said competition is bad for people primarily concerned with self defense/tactical shooting. All I’ve ever said is that there’s potential for some habits that may be a poor tactical decision is a general self defense situation.

But it’s like some of you guys are getting super defensive because I’m providing a legit criticism and the only way to argue against it is to assume I’m saying competition will get you killed and fight that argument. I like competition shooting, I’m doing it as often as I can and always have. There are significant benefits with it that you likely won’t get anywhere else. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have the potential to breed bad habits in SD terms. As I said initially, it’s worth it to me because the good far outweigh the bad. But it’d be done to pretend that it’s impossible.


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[Alpha Sierra]

There are significant benefits with it that you likely won’t get anywhere else. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have the potential to breed bad habits in SD terms.

The experts seem to disagree.

[Wake27]

The experts seem to disagree.

I rarely deal in absolutes so if the experts are stating that competition shooting has absolutely zero possibility of ever creating a bad habit, then that’s fine, I’m cool with agreeing to disagree and never attending a class from them. I think it’s unlikely, but it’s absolutely possible.


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[deflave]

I rarely deal in absolutes so if the experts are stating that competition shooting has absolutely zero possibility of ever creating a bad habit, then that’s fine, I’m cool with agreeing to disagree and never attending a class from them. I think it’s unlikely, but it’s absolutely possible.


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Marksmanship is marksmanship.

It's the foundation that tactics (involving firearms) are built on.

Shooting sports teach/implement marksmanship. This isn't a new thing.

[Wake27]

Marksmanship is marksmanship.

It's the foundation that tactics (involving firearms) are built on.

Shooting sports teach/implement marksmanship. This isn't a new thing.

Nothing I have said has been in disagreement to that.

[deflave]

Nothing I have said has been in disagreement to that.

Sounds like we're in agreement.

See you at the next match.

[JAD]

Fair point.

But when Tom Givens leans in and says “Stop looking at your feet, that’s a bad idea if someone’s trying to kill you.”, well, it makes one ponder that might not be the best thing to do.

I’ve been leaned into by Mr. Givens. Despite leaning in he did not lower his voice when pointing out my dumbfuckery.

It’s tricky and I don’t have a good answer. When I shot competition I did shoot to win, but all other shooting I did was (supposed to be) mindful of stuff that was different than my competition concerns. That made me, I’m sure, a worse competition shooter, and I identified some times in matches where i would get hung up dithering between the right thing and the winning thing. However I did not usually identify the reverse in serious shooting.

I’ve said it before but the single most effective means of practice is shooting drills with people of a like mindset who will call you on your shit. I would trade four matches a month for two hours of that (I actually made that trade at one point). Absent that, though, competition is a great way to motivate one to practice and excel, and it’s hard to see anything wrong with that as long as you manage your trade space.

[AGR416]

This is my issue with this thread. So many of you seem to be making this into something it isn’t. I’ve never said competition is bad for people primarily concerned with self defense/tactical shooting. All I’ve ever said is that there’s potential for some habits that may be a poor tactical decision is a general self defense situation.

But it’s like some of you guys are getting super defensive because I’m providing a legit criticism and the only way to argue against it is to assume I’m saying competition will get you killed and fight that argument. I like competition shooting, I’m doing it as often as I can and always have. There are significant benefits with it that you likely won’t get anywhere else. But that doesn’t mean that it doesn’t have the potential to breed bad habits in SD terms. As I said initially, it’s worth it to me because the good far outweigh the bad. But it’d be done to pretend that it’s impossible.


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No one is getting super defensive, I am countering your argument. Isn't that what a discussion is about? Isn't that the whole point of a forum like this?
You are making an assertion that I disagree with.

You bring up people being creatures of habit, and that is the reason why someone will do something stupid, if they have done that thing enough to ingrain it.

As I have said several times, that is a training issue, not an issue with competition. More specifically, a lack of scenario based training.

Here is why I think you are wrong on that. Humans are very capable of observing something, and deciding on a proper course of action based on what they see.
I have training on several different types of weapons, with vastly different manual of arms. Think AR-15 type weapon compared to a GPMG.
I have never applied the incorrect malfunction clearance process to the weapon I was using; when shooting the HK416, I never tried to clear a malfunction using the process for an MG.
If your theory was correct, I shouldn't be able to differentiate between the two.

That is because I am capable of cognitive processing. As such, we are very well capable of differentiating between a competition setting and a gunfight, and will be fully able to employ cover and concealment properly during the latter.

[Alpha Sierra]

I’ve said it before but the single most effective means of practice is shooting drills with people of a like mindset who will call you on your shit.

The timer and some self discipline will achieve the same result

[Alpha Sierra]

I have training on several different types of weapons, with vastly different manual of arms. Think AR-15 type weapon compared to a GPMG.

I have never applied the incorrect malfunction clearance process to the weapon I was using; when shooting the HK416, I never tried to clear a malfunction using the process for an MG.
If your theory was correct, I shouldn't be able to differentiate between the two.

That is because I am capable of cognitive processing. As such, we are very well capable of differentiating between a competition setting and a gunfight, and will be fully able to employ cover and concealment properly during the latter.

Bravo. Lays waste to the uber-dumb training scars argument.