Minneapolis bans "warrior" training for Police

[Erick Gelhaus]

Regarding the conviction, if anyone comes across the three expert witness reports (2 prosecution, 1 defense) it would be interesting to read them.

In the District Attorney's statement he had less than kind words for the defense expert.

[Lon]

Regarding the conviction, if anyone comes across the three expert witness reports (2 prosecution, 1 defense) it would be interesting to read them.

In the District Attorney's statement he had less than kind words for the defense expert.

I’d like to see them as well. Manny K (defense expert) was at our range last year for Tom’s 3 day instructor class, IIRC. Nice guy.

[Coyotesfan97]

Here’s a link to Stately McDaniel Manor with trial coverage of the experts testimony. I asked if Mike has any knowledge of the expert’s reports.

https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpre...comment-100936

[Chuck Whitlock]

“Courses like this reinforce the thinking that everyone is out to get police officers,” said Chuck Wexler, executive director of the Police Executive Research Forum, a research and policy organization based in Washington. “This teaches officers, ‘If you hesitate, you could lose your life.’ It is the exact opposite of the way many police chiefs are going.”

Pulled this from the NYT article on this subject. A couple paragraphs down, it goes a step further, making the argument that training to see pre-attack indicators is part of the problem.

For those considering this profession, just remember that dead cops are cheaper than UoF settlements.

Everything I've seen from PERF has been hot garbage.

GardoneVT, many people do rotate the hoods forward on SLS holsters, either all the time or upon approach to danger. I don't care for the practice. A holster that relies solely on the SLS system for security has all the retention of a bucket with the hood forward, especially a holster that accommodates a WML. Moreover, if you vary your approach (e.g.: hood forward on car stops, but secured when on domestics), sooner or later, you're going to find it in the wrong position. Better to learn the manual of arms so that you consistently release retention devices on the draw.

That said, some officers and departments use holsters with no hood and depend on the ALS system for retention and release.

As a teen i remember seeing some cops with their thumbreaks unsnapped when dealing with people. I never understood the mentality, and still don't to this day. I see some troopers who do it with the hood of their 6360's and it makes my eye twitch. I want to take them out and teach them how to actually use the damn thing.

For openly carried guns in an ALS holster instead of an ALS/SLS, I firmly believe in the ALS guard. The great thing is that the same motions operate either one seamlessly, at least for me.

[Erick Gelhaus]

Regarding anything from PERF, Wexler was never a cop of any kind. That explains their product.

Even when showing people the data & research that counter it, there is still a belief that it's faster to remove or defeat all of the retention devices.

[CWM11B]

Anytime I'm reading something regarding LE work and PERF is referenced as an authority or paradigm to be followed My metal "off/ignore" switch is activated. The BS they espouse will cause increased crime rates and violence against the law abiding as well as LE officers. What they push is irresponsible, flies in the face of case law establishing by the USSC, and (in my view) borderline criminally negligent.

[Gray01]

Regarding the conviction, if anyone comes across the three expert witness reports (2 prosecution, 1 defense) it would be interesting to read them.

In the District Attorney's statement he had less than kind words for the defense expert.

Erick,

I read this article and found this juror's narrative to be instructive:

"...When the prosecution rested, the defense brought out Noor and brought out their expert (Emanuel Kapelsohn.) Watching Sweasy work on those two on cross was enlightening and painful at the same time because it almost seemed like they didn’t have a plan how to answer her questions. In my opinion, and I can’t speak for everybody in that jury room, but I felt like that case was lost (for the defense) between the two experts witnesses on the prosecution side and Noor and Emanuel Kapelsohn.

Kapelsohn always felt a little off. Trying to show photos off his cell phone in the middle of testimony was probably the most embarrassing moment of the trial. Doing crime scene recreations without showing measurements, and the whole lifting the fingers and going “bang,” doing the demonstration of Noor’s weapon and Harrity’s holster was just weird. Plus, his testimony in the other case where he was arguing against almost an identical set of facts did hurt his credibility a little bit...

...The forensic evidence supported Harrity’s testimony of what happened, so it was unanimously concluded that Harrity was dangerously close to being shot as well. Combined with the fact that Noor failed to properly identify a threat lead us to decide that the entire act was so reckless to everyone in that line of the bullet there really wasn’t any way to say it wasn’t. It’s such an egregious use of firearms at such a basic fundamental level that you wouldn’t even think of ever doing that except in the case of the most absolute dire circumstances in which you would have no other choice.

We had already unanimously decided that lethal force was unjustified so that action alone was the biggest reason we collectively agreed on murder 3. We didn’t discuss this part in the deliberation because of hindsight, but afterwards a bunch of us felt that it was far more likely that Harrity would have been shot and killed by crossfire than Justine having a weapon and attempting to kill the officers..."

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/...4-68921e7c579c

[Jeff22]

I took a couple of classes with John Farnam of Defense Training International in which Manny was a fellow student (1983 and 1985)

I've also attended some training where he was the instructor at several ASLET conventions (early 1990s)

I'm surprised to hear that he didn't seem very prepared -- I'm surprised he got involved in this case at all because the incident had major fail written all over it.

[Gray01]

Power Line Blog has covered this incident from the beginning as a hometown matter. The writer attended the trial as a member of the press and provided daily overviews. His final notes included this regarding the expert witnesses:

I can’t think of a better expert witness I have ever seen than prosecution expert Timothy Longo. His experience, his résumé, his demeanor, his response to the cross-examination — all were outstanding. He was the voice of sanity in the case. On the other hand, prosecutor Amy Sweasy’s cross-examination of defense expert Emanuel Kapelsohn all but turned him into a mass of quivering jelly. Although she carried on with it for too long, she crushed him.



https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...noor-trial.php

ETA: I carry no brief for or against any parties in this, I am posting what I found interesting.

[Gray01]

They are saying that this is the largest settlement in the history of Minneapolis. And they are saying blah blah blah "race and “institutionalized racism” blah blah blah.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archiv...is-pays-up.php