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Thread: Are BUIS necessary on a defensive pistol

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    How did it work? I have heard of some zero shift issues with the TLr-8A on a Glock.
    I think they work okay. If someone needed triple backup for a gun, it’d be a good option.

    I personally never got along with lasers much, so I’m okay with double backup (dot and BUIS).

    I figure if I needed more than that I might be time to think about a BUG.

    In general, I kind of think about BUGs over a spare magazine (for a civilian) since there are so many choices out there.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    I think you are answering a different question, which is do dots fail, and the answer is obviously that they do.

    My question is what are the circumstances where BUIS would allow you to be successful, and you could not otherwise get the job done through pure index or using the optic as a big ghost ring? I don’t have BUIS on most of my competition pistols, have had multiple failures in matches, and have always been able to finish the stage. Heck, for the first six months YVK shot CO, I don’t think he used the dot on most of his shots, and he still did pretty darn good.
    If you're good enough to shoot and hit everything you want to hit with an index, why even bother having a dot or sights at all? The answer to your question is... When one has to aim to hit something.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by IDontDoQuests View Post
    If you're good enough to shoot and hit everything you want to hit with an index, why even bother having a dot or sights at all? The answer to your question is... When one has to aim to hit something.
    That's not what he's advocating. He's talking about using the optic window as an index or giant ghost ring in a have-to type situation. That's something that I started working on years ago with Aimpoint micros on carbines and can be quite effective, but it's not better than using sights or an optic. It's simply another aiming method to use in the middle of an "Oh shit" situation with a dot failure.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    That's not what he's advocating. He's talking about using the optic window as an index or giant ghost ring in a have-to type situation. That's something that I started working on years ago with Aimpoint micros on carbines and can be quite effective, but it's not better than using sights or an optic. It's simply another aiming method to use in the middle of an "Oh shit" situation with a dot failure.
    And this ability is why I’m considering a carry pistol with RMRcc and without irons. I wasn’t able to test it completely, but I made do with what I have available - my Ruger MkII with dot sans irons. I found I had no problem grouping at 10 yards, which given my needs in a civilian defensive pistol meets my requirements for a backup. I’m slowly becoming comfortable with the concept. In many ways it’s like shooting my old ASP with Guttersnipe.
    Ken

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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    That's not what he's advocating. He's talking about using the optic window as an index or giant ghost ring in a have-to type situation. That's something that I started working on years ago with Aimpoint micros on carbines and can be quite effective, but it's not better than using sights or an optic. It's simply another aiming method to use in the middle of an "Oh shit" situation with a dot failure.
    Reread GJM's post, he asked when irons would be necessary while the ghost ring / optic body method would not suffice. Answer is pretty self evident, any shot where the optic body is too coarse of a sighting method given the difficulty of the shot and the consequences of hitting something you didn't mean to.

    I get the argument that you often don't use a dot and get away with index shooting in USPSA, BUT in USPSA you would be wise not do stuff like that on partial or otherwise risky targets. IMO it's an extremely low probability thing but if it happens that you need to take a longer shot or you need 100% assurance that you will hit exactly where you want, then you're kind of SOL if your only sighting method is the optic body. So for the low cost of having BUIS I'd rather have them than not.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    Reread GJM's post, he asked when irons would be necessary while the ghost ring / optic body method would not suffice. Answer is pretty self evident, any shot where the optic body is too coarse of a sighting method given the difficulty of the shot and the consequences of hitting something you didn't mean to.

    I get the argument that you often don't use a dot and get away with index shooting in USPSA, BUT in USPSA you would be wise not do stuff like that on partial or otherwise risky targets. IMO it's an extremely low probability thing but if it happens that you need to take a longer shot or you need 100% assurance that you will hit exactly where you want, then you're kind of SOL if your only sighting method is the optic body. So for the low cost of having BUIS I'd rather have them than not.
    I wasn't advocating for not having BUIS.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Friday View Post
    I wasn't advocating for not having BUIS.
    Not saying you did, that was just me throwing in my own 2c at the end there. But GJM's question that IDontDoQuests was responding to was if there's any point of having BUIS instead of just using the optic body. Obviously we all agree the answer is yes.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    IMO it's an extremely low probability thing but if it happens that you need to take a longer shot or you need 100% assurance that you will hit exactly where you want, then you're kind of SOL if your only sighting method is the optic body. So for the low cost of having BUIS I'd rather have them than not.
    Question: do you run BUIS on your competition gun? If not then why not?

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by JCN View Post
    Question: do you run BUIS on your competition gun? If not then why not?
    I don't. With the SRO on an optic plate there really isn't any real estate for a rear sight while keeping the hood away from the ejection port and the front sight would have to be incredibly tall to be visible in the window. That and at a match I'm willing to accept that if my dot dies, my stage run may suffer. Plus most of the targets I see at a match are not punishing to the point where you have to guarantee a hit.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyesquared View Post
    I don't. With the SRO on an optic plate there really isn't any real estate for a rear sight while keeping the hood away from the ejection port and the front sight would have to be incredibly tall to be visible in the window. That and at a match I'm willing to accept that if my dot dies, my stage run may suffer. Plus most of the targets I see at a match are not punishing to the point where you have to guarantee a hit.
    Using that logic might also hold for why someone might not use BUIS on their CO carry gun, no?

    DPP is similarly tall and a number of people are running SRO on their carry guns...

    Also, none of the world champions that I know of run BUIS and a dot going down at the world shoot would be catastrophic... but they still don’t run BUIS in CO or Open...

    See where I’m going with this?

    Even at the highest stake matches, they’d rather have an uncluttered window than BUIS just in case.

    I personally run BUIS on my carry guns though. But I wouldn’t fault someone for going either way.

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